The True Nature Of V's Deal (Speculation)

[Shale]

I spitballed this theory in the "3 logical conclusions" thread, but the more I think about it the more I suspect that it might actually be right.

Vaarsuivius' deal with the directors of the IFCC holds that, for every minute of each soul splice, V's soul must spend a minute with the director who owns that soul. In their words, if V had held onto all three for an hour, "your soul spends one hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates."

The general assumption has been that the deal will allow the IFCC to take command of V's soul, ripping it from its mortal form, and use that to further their ends in some way. But that's not what the deal says. There's nothing about control. It merely says that the soul will be "with" the directors. V assumes in strip #843 that this means the torments of the Nine Hells, but we know for a fact that the IFCC isn't doing this just to send a fallen elf wizard to hell - V's soul "is little more than the free soup-or-salad to our main course of wickedness."

The thing is, V doesn't have to go anywhere. The fiends said nothing about that pulling V's soul out of its body. They only said that it would be in the company of the IFCC. We're assuming that Vaarsuvius would be pulled into the nether realms, but the directors could satisfy the deal just as well by bringing themselves to the material plane. And that would be a big deal for a trio of fiends who have already pointed out that they can't manifest in the mortal world outside of a deal.

And who knows what they could do with forty-five minutes of access to a Gate...

[Chess Tyrant]

Or for that matter, they could assume dominion over V's soul while V was still alive.

V's only saving grace is that 45 minutes isn't enough time to take control over the gates, and the IFCC only knows what Nale learned from Soon. They can't really get access to the Dark One's gate ritual, even if they somehow get hold of the arcane half.

Conclusion: since 45 minutes is 'more than enough to serve their purposes,' their purpose is probably measured in rounds, not days. Combat rounds. :smalleek:

[LordVader]

This is a very intriguing theory which feels quite solid, and would make for an excellent twist.

[Dungeonstone]

Step one. Wait for V to be in place near the unguarded gate (say after a major battle over it when most/all of the fighting is over).

Step two. Pull V's soul out of hir body and replace it with a higher level mage's soul which is under the control of the directors. Have said soul perform the arcane side of the control ritual.

Step three. swap the mage's soul for a cleric's and then have the cleric perform the divine side of the ritual.

Step four. Profit!

Alternatively, have each of the directors in turn taking control of V's body (potentially while V's soul is still in it, thus fulfilling the "with them" terms of the contract) in order to perform the actions listed above.

[TheDarkblade]

Step one. Wait for V to be in place near the unguarded gate (say after a major battle over it when most/all of the fighting is over).

Step two. Pull V's soul out of hir body and replace it with a higher level mage's soul which is under the control of the directors. Have said soul perform the arcane side of the control ritual.

Step three. swap the mage's soul for a cleric's and then have the cleric perform the divine side of the ritual.

Step four. Profit!

Alternatively, have each of the directors in turn taking control of V's body (potentially while V's soul is still in it, thus fulfilling the "with them" terms of the contract) in order to perform the actions listed above.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html

The ritual takes "a few weeks" not 45 minutes.

[Porthos]

I spitballed this theory in the "3 logical conclusions" thread, but the more I think about it the more I suspect that it might actually be right.

Vaarsuivius' deal with the directors of the IFCC holds that, for every minute of each soul splice, V's soul must spend a minute with the director who owns that soul. In their words, if V had held onto all three for an hour, "your soul spends one hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates."

The general assumption has been that the deal will allow the IFCC to take command of V's soul, ripping it from its mortal form, and use that to further their ends in some way

Actually, not quite. What most of us are presuming is something like this...

Or for that matter, they could assume dominion over V's soul while V was still alive.

Nothing about "ripping it out of his body" or anything like that. V could just be a silent partner in his own body, unable to control his actions. And perhaps unaware.

That's pretty much what I've been presuming what will happen ever since, oh about 10 minutes after the strip was first posted. :smalltongue:

Now I have no idea if they are going to rip V's soul out. I hadn't considered that possibility, to be honest. But I will be pretty surprised if they don't control V somehow.

Here is the exact language:

:vaarsuvius: And for this, you would have eternal dominion over my immortal soul once I died?
IFCC: What? No! No, no no!
IFCC: How would that be fair?
IFCC: No, all we ask for is an even trade.
IFCC: Each one of us will get your soul for the same amount of time that you are under the effects of their Soul Splice.
IFCC: So, maintain all three splices for an hour, your soul spends one hour with me, then one hour each with my two associates.
IFCC: Exact order of custody to be determined at a later point.

It's the "Each one of us will get your soul" bit which can be key, when it comes to interpetation for control. At least that certainly implies it to me.

Now I certainly don't believe that they're gonna do The Dark One's ritual, which as noted in this thread takes weeks to do. But I do think they are going to do something to a Gate. Maybe something as simple as turn the tide between the three-way showdown between the LG, Team Evil, and the OotS.

Should be fun to find out exactly what the IFCC wants, actually.

[Azukar]

Alternatively, could the IFCC pass around V's soul and take control of his *body* in the mean time? Do souls work like that in D&D?

If so, I don't see why they wouldn't take his soul out of his body then have a director Assume Direct Control and wheel it around for whatever purpose.

[Absol197]

Or for that matter, they could assume dominion over V's soul while V was still alive.

This seems to be the most popular theory, but it really doesn't seem right to me. The problem comes with the "controlling her soul," bit. Nowhere in the deal did they made did they speculate any control over V's soul. Only that it "spends time with them." Which means that, as seen with Roy's soul wandering about the afterlife, the decisions of V's soul while in their custody is still up to her. Sure, she's likely not going to have much choice about where to wander, but I'm not seeing them being able to force her to cast or do anything she doesn't want to, except under the effect of extreme torture. But then, it would still be her decision.

The other problem is, once again, as seen with Roy, and is common in D&D games, such as with spells like astral projection and magic jar, a body without a soul is a dead body, or at least an unconscious one, if it's still capable of performing all its vital functions.

I'll allow that they might be able to put a different soul into V's body while her soul rests in whatever hellish place they put it, and that, because they never gave a precise time of payment, they might be able to take their payment before V actually dies (if she's not dead already), but neither of those feel right to me.

I know, feelings :smalltongue:. What'cha gonna' do? I expect the IFCC's plan will have to do with after V dies, and doing something with it on the outer planes that would get their desired goal. What that might be? No clue. I'm not the Giant. But that's what I think.

[Dungeonstone]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html

The ritual takes "a few weeks" not 45 minutes.

Assuming of course that Redcloak was honest with Xyklon about the true amount of time the ritual takes to cast.

[Porthos]

I expect the IFCC's plan will have to do with after V dies, and doing something with it on the outer planes that would get their desired goal. What that might be? No clue. I'm not the Giant. But that's what I think.

Problem: "If the elf dies here, this whole thing was a huge waste of time." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html)

This certainly seems to imply that the IFCC doesn't want V to die quite yet. :smallsmile:

[silvadel]

:roy: Vaarsuvius -- What are you doing? We didn't want you to hit the self-destruct.

:elan: Yeah that's my job.

:roy: :sigh:

:vaarsuvius: I assure you that I did no such thing.

[Winter Light]

From a narrative POV, I think we are most likely to see this being some way of the Fiends getting control of V. Either (as the most popular theory seems to be) by taking over V's body, or as was suggested in this thread by 'borrowing' the soul from the bdoy and putting a new, IFCC-owned-and-operated one in its place.

...But the idea of the Fiends using that to justify themselves materializing in the mortal world to fulfill the terms of their contract, as someone speculated?

I like that.

And I don't think it's been suggested before?

[Jay R]

(Steps one - three. Perform the ritual.>

Step four. Profit!

What profit? The ritual only lets the Dark One (not the ones who cast the ritual) control where the rift is. How does this profit the IFCC?

[Secondary question: how does this even profit the Dark One, if the rift contains a complete world rather than a god-killing abomination?]

[Anteros]

This theory has been around since about 3 seconds after the comic with the details of the deal posted. If not before.

[ti'esar]

From a narrative POV, I think we are most likely to see this being some way of the Fiends getting control of V. Either (as the most popular theory seems to be) by taking over V's body, or as was suggested in this thread by 'borrowing' the soul from the bdoy and putting a new, IFCC-owned-and-operated one in its place.

...But the idea of the Fiends using that to justify themselves materializing in the mortal world to fulfill the terms of their contract, as someone speculated?

I like that.

And I don't think it's been suggested before?

I don't think it has, either. I hope it's not true, because this would be very bad, but it certainly seems to have more of a basis then some theories we've seen on here about the IFCC.

[Roland Itiative]

Just one thing: as Porthos showed, the text doesn't say V's soul will "spend time" with the fiends. They say they'll each "get" his soul for a limited time.

Interpreting it as the IFCC directors coming to V instead of the other way around seems to me to be stretching as much as simply having them control V. Maybe even more. If we assume the whole exchange, including V's guess, to be a valid part of the deal, it's interesting to note the fiends denied the "eternal", but not the "dominion over the soul" part of what V said. Now it's just a matter of how much control over his very actions would this "dominion" give.

[Edric O]

...But the idea of the Fiends using that to justify themselves materializing in the mortal world to fulfill the terms of their contract, as someone speculated?

I like that.

And I don't think it's been suggested before?
Well, actually...


This is an excellent point. Remember that the IFCC fiends told Qarr that they can only act on the Material Plane when making a deal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0656.html). The whole point of their plan might be to find a way around that limitation.

So, actually, instead of controlling V, the deal they made might allow the IFCC to manifest on the Material Plane in the fullness of their epic-level powers for a given amount of time. Which would be a lot better than controlling a non-epic wizard.
I claim original authorship! :)

[Elemental]

I'm not sure if anyone's thought of this yet...
But they may have the intention of controlling V's soul at three distinct moments potentially separated by days and or weeks. Who knows exactly how much havoc a single one of these fiends could wreak in a mere three minutes. It took less time for Vaarsuvius to take out a quarter of the world's black dragons plus untold numbers of others.

Edit: Oh my... And I just thought of something else... Does it say that each fiend must claim their time in one whole chunk? Because if not, then they have a grand total of forty-four minutes and eleven seconds to spread out as much as they want.
Or almost four hundred and forty-two combat rounds.

Edit2: I shouldn't leave words out...

[Jay R]

Well, actually...


I claim original authorship! :)

Well...

If it's false, then original authorship is valueless. But if it's true, then the original author is The Giant.

You may, however, claim First Guess.

[Squieonat]

I personally don't believe that the IFCC has any intention of performing the ritual. That being said, who's to say that a god OTHER than The Dark One couldn't come up with their own specific brand of the ritual? That is to say, give control of the gate to somebody else. I don't read these forums particularly often, so just ignore me if this has been discussed before.

[Fish]

You want First Guess? Here's mine, which as far as I know, is mine ("And what it is too." —Miss A. Elk).

One IFCC director only gets V's soul for a minute or two. What can he (Lee?) do with 2 minutes?

Answer the riddles that Girard left, which O-Chul guessed would be here.