The Shredder: dagger throwing for a lot of damage

[Garwain]

I made the Shredder and he has a very large damage potential. I don't think I've found something similar on the net; (or my google-fu fails me).

Selling points:
- 16 ranged touch attacks for 67! damage each during full round
- lvl 5 divine spell
- not setting specific
- not ToB
- no elemental damage
- no situational damage

Here is the build:
The Shredder, a halfling dagger spitting tornado:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jRnDpfbzEYI/TtDYa-6J_fI/AAAAAAAAA1Q/M8a3-hhPGb4/s1600/102046.jpg


I'm not a dagger throwing circus act... I would shred the spinning wheel.
Human Cloistered Cleric of Heironious 1/Hit and Run Fighter 4/Marshal 2/Ordained Champion 1/master thrower 5/Chameleon 7

stats:

{table=head]Stat|base|item|lvls|inherent|Class|total|mod
STR|13|--|--|--|--|13|+1
DEX|15|+6|--|+5|+4|30|+10
CON|11|--|+1|--|--|12|+1
INT|10|--|--|--|--|10|+0
WIS|14|+4|--|--|--|18|+4
CHA|15|+6|+4|+5|--|30|+10[/table]
point buy 32

build:
{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat
1|cloistered cleric|Able Learner, Weapon Focus: Dagger|Knowledge Devotion, -undefined domain 1-, War Domain (Weapon Focus: Longsword), Divine Metamagic (persistent)(flaw1), TWF (flaw2)
2|Fighter|-|PBS, Hit and Run variant
3|fighter|Divine Might|Precise Shot
4|fighter|-|-
5|fighter|-|Rapid Shot
6|Marshal|Weapon Specialization|CHA to Dex checks
7|Marshal|-|Motivated Ardor aura
8|Ordained Champion|-|Ranged Weapon Mastery (domain 1), Improved TWF (domain 2)
9|Master Thrower|Power Attack|Quick Draw, Palm throw (trick)
10|Master Thrower|-|Evasion
11|Master Thrower|-|Two with one blow (trick)
12|Master Thrower|Brutal Throw|Snatch Arrows, Deflection +2
13|Master Thrower|-|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)
14|Chameleon|-|-
15|Chameleon|Power Throw|Greater TWF
16|Chameleon|-|-
17|Chameleon|-|-
18|Chameleon|Holy Warrior|-
19|Chameleon|-|-
20|Chameleon|-|-
[/table]
16d8+4d10+20 = 127hp
saves: 24/17/19
init: +22

Skills:
Able Learner handles skill points allocation.
-Dex skills profit from added Cha
-5 ranks in Ride skills to control a warmount.
-4 ranks cross class 'Sleight of Hand' needed to enter master thrower
-2 skill points for 'Collector of Stories' skill trick

Breakdown at lvl 20:
Ranged Touch Power Throw attacks:
20(BAB)+10(dex)+3(Knowl. Dev)+1(PBS)+3(persisted div. favor)+4(chameleon)+1(Weapon Focus)+2(RWM)-4(extra attacks)-20(power throw) = 20

for 16 attacks: +20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5

=> damage = 1d4(dagger)+20(power throw)+10(Divine Might)+3(Knowl.Dev)+(1PBS)+3(div.favor)+1d6(gloves )+4(chameleon)+2(Weap.Spec)+2(RWM)+1(aura)+5(Holy Warrior) = 57 dam (+10 if flat-footed)

Notes:
This build focuses on the fighter/cleric options from the chameleon. At level 7, he can sustain them both, granting lvl5 divine spells and +4 to 'to hit' and 'damage'. We double the profit by qualifying for the Holy Warrior reserve feat and using the turn attempts to persist Divine Favor and Divine Power and to fuel Divine Might.

If you think that I don't qualify for Holy warrior, note that the ordained champion grants spontaneous war domain casting, and the reserve feat states that you should be able to cast it, not have it prepared.

All in all, I'm glad that this could be done without the feat shuffle or exalted status. I hesitated to switch to Human for the race, but it solves the tedious skill point allocation and grants an extra feat.

For extra mobility, buy a warmount so that you can still do a full attack and move in the same round. In fact all dex skills have +20 bonus.

Equipment:

- as much ordinary daggers as he can carry
- +6 dex item
- +6 cha item
- gloves of agile strike
- nightsticks (if allowed)
- light armor with lots of dex
sources:

cloistered cleric - Unearthed Arcana
Master thrower - complete warrior
Brutal throw - complete adventurer
Power throw - complete adventurer
Collector of Stories - Complete Scoundrel p85
Knowledge devotion - complete champion p60
Divine Might - complete champion
Holy Warrior - complete champion
Ordained Champion - complete Champion p90
ranged weapon mastery - PHBII
Hit and Run Tactics fighter variant - Drow of the Underdark
gloves of agile strike - MiC
Chameleon - Races of Destiny p111


The first old post:
I've been going back and forth with this build, and still it feels not quite finished. The plan is to throw lots of daggers, include Master Thrower, and to rely on good old plain non-situational bonus damage. Also, I don't have a good plan to deal with damage reduction, so that needs work.

I'm not interested in precision damage (including swashbuckler 3), but I'm considering adding halfling paragon 2 (UA) for another +2damage.

What else can you come up with? Does the equivalent of Power attack exists for thrown weapons as well?

So far I have:
stats:
Halfling Cloistered Cleric 1/fighter 4/Marshal 2/master thrower 5
STR 15-2 = +1
DEX 16+2 = +4
CON 8 = +0
INT 14 = +2
WIS 11 = +0
CHA 14 = +2
---------------------
point buy 33

build:
{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat
1|cloistered cleric|Power Attack|Point Blank Shot (Elf Domain), Weapon focus (dagger)(war domain), Knowledge Devotion (swapped Knowledge Domain)
2|fighter|-|Two Weapon Fighting
3|fighter|Divine Might|Rapid Shot
4|fighter|-|-
5|fighter|-|Weapon Specialization
6|Marshal|Precise Shot|Cha to INT checks aura
7|Marshal|-|+1 Damage aura
8|Master Thrower|-|Quick Draw, Palm Throw (trick)
9|Master Thrower|???|Evasion
10|Master Thrower|-|Two with one blow (trick)
11|Master Thrower|-|Snatch Arrows
12|Master Thrower|Ranged Weapon Mastery|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)[/table]

Breakdown at lvl 12:Ranged Touch attacks: +10(bab)+4(dex)+1(race)+1(size)+1(PBS)+1(w.focus)+ 2(Knowl.dev)+2(divine might)+2(ranged w. mastery)-2(2WF)-2(rapid shot) = +20/+20/+20/+15
with palm throw: +20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15

Damage (no str due to palm throw):1d3+1(PBS)+2(W.Spec.)+2(ranged w. mastery)+2(knowl.dev)+2(divine might)+1(aura) = 1d3+10

Notes:
- PBS is situational due to range restriction
- Knowledge devotion is at least +2: cloistered cleric has all Knowledge skills and the necessary skill point to put 4 ranks in each. 4ranks+2int+2cha(aura)+5 skill trick (collector of stories) +2 (masterwork tool) = +15, so roll of at least 16 guaranteed for the +2 bonus.
- divine might is fueled by turn attempts (5/day), but lasts the whole round, so all attacks during full attack profit.
- some lvl1 buff spells from cleric spell list not yet included. also, true strike and magic weapon are domain spells
- extra attacks with 'Two with one blow' trick from master thrower for even more attacks. With the high attack bonus and ranged touch attacks, you can spare another -4 to hit.


sources:
cloistered cleric - Unearthed Arcana
elf domain - SpC
Master thrower, divine might - complete adventurer
Marshal - Miniatures Handbook
Collector of Stories - Complete Scoundrel
Knowledge devotion - complete champion
ranged weapon mastery - PHBII

[Eurus]

There is a thrown Power Attack, actually! Complete Adventurer, page 111. But the prereqs are steep. It requires regular Power Attack and Brutal Throw (allows you to use Str instead of Dex on ranged attacks; it's optional though, so you don't need to).

[2xMachina]

You can try BloodStormBlade (ToB). At lvl 2 or 4, you treat your attacks as ranged/melee as is more beneficial, so Power Attack away. Also, you +X dagger returns to you immediately for rethrow.

EDIT: Lvl 2 lets you treat Ranged attacks as Melee for a round with 1 swift action
Lvl 4 lets you full attack with 1 single ranged attack.

[Garwain]

Should have mentioned no Tome of Battle, sorry.

Power Throw... how could I have missed you.
Entry is indeed taxing, but I'm sharing Power attack and str13 with Divine might, so that eases the pain. Only brutal throw is a tax feat.

I have added the power throw and halfling paragon levels. Last 5 levels should try to address the issue of damage reduction. Any Ideas?

Updated build in the opening post
build:

{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat
1|cloistered cleric|Power Attack|Point Blank Shot (Elf Domain), Weapon focus (dagger)(war domain), Knowledge Devotion (swapped Knowledge Domain)
2|fighter|-|Two Weapon Fighting
3|fighter|Divine Might|Rapid Shot
4|fighter|-|-
5|fighter|-|Weapon Specialization
6|Marshal|Precise Shot|Cha to INT checks aura
7|Marshal|-|+1 Damage aura
8|Master Thrower|-|Quick Draw, Palm Throw (trick)
9|Master Thrower|Brutal Throw|Evasion
10|Master Thrower|-|Two with one blow (trick)
11|Master Thrower|-|Snatch Arrows
12|Master Thrower|Power Throw|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)
13|Halfling Paragon|-|Athletic prowess, save bonus
14|Halfling Paragon|-|Thrown weapon mastery (+2 dam)
15|Halfling Paragon|Ranged Weapon Mastery|Ability Increase (+2dex)[/table]

Breakdown at lvl 15:Ranged Touch Power Throw attacks: +12(bab)+5(dex)+1(race)+1(size)+1(PBS)+1(w.focus)+ 2(Knowl.dev)+2(divine might)+2(ranged w. mastery)-3(power throw)-2(2WF)-2(rapid shot) = +20/+20/+20/+15/+10
with palm throw: +20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10

Damage (no str due to palm throw):1d3+1(PBS)+2(W.Spec.)+2(ranged w. mastery)+2(knowl.dev)+2(divine might)+1(aura)+2(half. parag)+3(power throw) = 1d3+15

Hmm, now we are getting somewhere: 10 attacks for 17dam with 20% crit chance = 204 average damage (provided they all hit).

[Garwain]

Update 3I have finished my build. The bane of daggerthrowers is damage reduction. I have (partially) countered this by:
-more damage
-magic daggers
-good aligned daggers

Update 4
Added VoP for more room for goodies, cleaned up situational feats. Damage is now always on. No elemental or precision damage. Range: 260-800 on full attack.

Final build is updated in the opening postHere is the final build:The Shredder, a halfling dagger spitting tornado:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jRnDpfbzEYI/TtDYa-6J_fI/AAAAAAAAA1Q/M8a3-hhPGb4/s1600/102046.jpg


I'm not a dagger throwing circus act... I would shred the spinning wheel.
Halfling Cloistered Cleric 1/Swashbuckler 1/Hit and Run Fighter 4/Marshal 2/master thrower 5/Halfling Paragon 3/Fighter 4stats:
[SPOILER]
{table=head]Stat|base|race|lvls|class|VoP|total|mod
STR|15|-2|-|-|-|13|+1
DEX|16|+2|+4|+2|+8|32|+11
CON|8|-|-|-|+6|14|+2
INT|14|-|-|-|+2|16|+3
WIS|11|-|-|-|-|11|+0
CHA|13|-|+1|-|+4|18|+4[/table]
point buy 32
build:
{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat|VoP bonus
1|cloistered cleric|Power Attack|Point Blank Shot (Elf Domain), Weapon focus (dagger)(war domain), Knowledge Devotion (swapped Knowledge Domain)|AC bonus +4
2|Swashbuckler|-|Weapon Finesse
3|fighter|Sacred Vow|Two Weapon Fighting, Hit and Run fighter variant|Endure Elements, AC bonus +5
4|fighter|-|Rapid Shot|Exalted Strike +1
5|fighter|-|-|Sustenance
6|fighter|Precise Shot|Weapon Specialization|AC bonus +6, Deflection +1
7|Marshal|-|Motivate Intelligence minor aura (Cha to INT checks)|Resistance +1, Ability Increase
8|Marshal|-|Motivate Ardor major aura (+1 Damage)|Natural Armor +1, mind shielding
9|Master Thrower|Brutal Throw|Quick Draw, Palm Throw (trick)|AC bonus +7
10|Master Thrower|-|Evasion|Exalted Strike +2, DR 5/magic
11|Master Thrower|-|Two with one blow (trick)|Ability Increase
12|Master Thrower|Power Throw|Snatch Arrows, Deflection +2|AC bonus +8, deflection +2|greater sustenance
13|Master Thrower|-|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)|resistance +2, energy resistance 5
14|Halfling Paragon|-|Athletic prowess, save bonus|Exalted Strike +3, freedom of movement
15|Halfling Paragon|Vow of Poverty|Thrown weapon mastery (+2 dam)|AC bonus +9, Ablility Increase, DR 5/evil
16|Halfling Paragon|-|Ability Increase (+2dex)|Natural Armor +2, bonus exalted feat
17|Fighter|-|-|Exalted Strike +4, resistance +3, regeneration
18|Fighter|Ranged Weapon Mastery|Improved Two-Weapon Fighting|AC bonus +10, Deflection +3, true seeing, bonus exalted feat
19|Fighter|-|-|Ability Increase, DR 10/evil
20|Fighter|-|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting|Exalted Strike +5, energy resistance 15, bonus exalted feat[/table]

BAB: 17, Fort: +22, Refl: +25, Will: +14, Init: +13, average HD: 8.5
AC=10+11(dex)+10(AC bonus)+3(deflection)+2(natural)=36

Skills:
Skill point allocation doesn't matter much. These 3 things are important:
-5 ranks cross class 'Sleight of Hand' needed to enter master thrower
-2 skill points for 'Collector of Stories' skill trick
-both cloistered cleric and Marshal have all knowledge skills as class skill, and thus 6 ranks in all relevant knowledge skill will fuel Knowledge Devotion.

Breakdown at lvl 20:
Ranged Touch Power Throw attacks: +17(bab)+11(dex)+1(race)+1(size)+1(PBS)+1(w.focus) +5(weapon)+3(Knowl.dev)+2(ranged w. mastery)-17(power throw)-2(2WF)-2(rapid shot)

with palm throw, rapid shot and two weapon chain: +21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6

= 13 hits against touch AC 22 or less (including crits and misses)
= 17.25 hits against touch AC 12 or less (including crits and misses)

Damage: 1d3(dagger)+1(PBS)+2(W.Spec.)+5(weapon enchant.)+2(ranged w. mastery)+3.25(knowl.dev)+1(aura)+2(half. parag)+17(power throw)
= 35.25 damage (good/magic, +11 if target is flatfooted)

damage range:
DR15/-, not flatfooted, touch AC 22: 13 hits x 20.25 = 263 damage
DR/0, magic or good, touch AC 12, flatfooted: 17.25 x 46.25 = 798 damage

Notes:
- Knowledge devotion is at least +2: cloistered cleric has all Knowledge skills and the necessary skill point to put 4 ranks in each. 6ranks+2int+2cha(aura)+5 skill trick (collector of stories) = +15. At higher levels this becomes +18 and thus +3.
- true strike and magic weapon are domain spells but not included in calculation
- extra attacks with 'Two with one blow' trick from master thrower for even more attacks. With the high attack bonus and ranged touch attacks, you can spare another -4 to hit 2 targets at once.
- 3 exalted feats to be determined, but could be: Nymph's Kiss, Exalted Spell Resistance, Sanctified Martial Strike
Equipment:

- as much ordinary daggers as he can carry

sources:
cloistered cleric - Unearthed Arcana
Halfling Paragon - Unearthed Arcana
elf domain - SpC
Master thrower, Swashbuckler - complete warrior
Brutal throw, power throw - complete adventurer
Marshal - Miniatures Handbook
Collector of Stories - Complete Scoundrel
Knowledge devotion - complete champion
ranged weapon mastery - PHBII
Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty - BoED
Hit and Run Tactics fighter variant - Drow of the Underdark

[Essence_of_War]

Have you considered some of the ideas that Keld used to make Flick?

Thread is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94343)

Basic idea is Bard w/dragonfire inspiration + full BAB class (preferably warblade, but doesn't have to be) + Master thrower.

[Garwain]

Have you considered some of the ideas that Keld used to make Flick?

I'm familiar with Flick. He uses setting specifics, flaws and ToB. I don't. Also, Flick assumes that all attacks hit, that there is no energy resistance, let alone energy immunity.
Unlike Flick, I do have enough to hit modifiers to reliable get into the two weapon fighting chain. It may be worth looking into...

[Averis Vol]

have you thought about adding collision to your weapons? yea its a +2 enhancement your adding on but you should have the gold at level 20. all i can think of without spending a lot into whisper knife and precision damage. nice build, i'm a fan of the whole dagger thrower build. hope it works out.

[Essence_of_War]

I'm familiar with Flick. He uses setting specifics, flaws and ToB. I don't. Also, Flick assumes that all attacks hit, that there is no energy resistance, let alone energy immunity.
Unlike Flick, I do have enough to hit modifiers to reliable get into the two weapon fighting chain. It may be worth looking into...

That's fine, but in fairness to me, you've been somewhat terse about allowed sources :smallsmile: (other than ToB). At any rate, I wasn't suggesting that you copy-pasta Flick, but rather that specific elements (dragonfire inspiration) might be applicable. Yeah, DFI is cold to fire immunity, and fire resistance is pretty common, but unless your DM is meta-gaming you pretty hard, getting tons of d6's to your thrown weapons is a pretty reasonable trick to getting through damage reduction and dispensing with most opponents.

I like the collision enhancement also. But as usual, this is one of those situations where having multiple weapons that you have to keep up enhancing is going to be a huge strain on your WBL. The Bloodstorm Blade really shines here, but as you've said, ToB is off the table. If your DM is amenable, perhaps you could talk to them about modding the gauntlet of infinite blades so that you could dump money into it to enhance the daggers it produces? I think this is pretty fair actually, but YMMV depending on your group.

Alternatively, if you wanted to skirt this weapon enhancement problem while still keeping the feel of a thrown weapon user, you might consider:
1) Totemist (possibly splashing in chaotic incarnate) specializing in spine throwing. Spines from manticore belt can be trivially re-fluffed as thrown daggers. If your DM allows you to treat them as natural attacks, you can enhance them with an amulet of natural attacks to get Collision and other goodies.
2) Soulknife/Soulbow - this is one of the few things they're good at right out of the box. If your DM acknowledges the mediocrity of the 3.5 soulknife and allows the PF soulknife, this could be a VERY tempting option.

[hamiltond465]

How exactly does one apply the tricks from Master thrower?
You can just stack the effects of Palm Throw, Two With One Blow, and Weak spot on every one of your full attacks? Seems a little weird, but I guess they don't say you can't.

I'm not all that good at such things, but why not do something like:

rogue5/Invisible Blade2/Master thrower5/Invisible Blade3

human: point blank
ro 1st Weapon focus dagger 1d6 sneak attack
ro 2nd
ro 3rd far shot, 1d6 sneak attack
ro 4th
ro 5th 1d6 sneak attack
IB 6th precise shot, 1d6 sneak attack
IB 7th bleeding wound
MT 8th
MT 9th feat
MT 10th
MT 11th
MT 12th feat
IB 13th
IB 14th
IB 15th feat


Some 6d6 sneak attack, with the option of losing one of those d6 for a 1 damage a turn bleed that lasts until healed. Or only take the first 2 levels of Invisible blade for that bleed effect.

I think there is a feat that lets fighter levels stack with rogue to determine sneak attack? If so, rogue1/fighter4/Ib2/MT5
A feat that lets you feint at range would be interesting, since IB 5 gives you feint as a free action.
I guess you could try to qualify for Shadow dancer to pick up hide in plain sight if there is no way to feint at range.
Edit: You know, I bet sneak attack counts as precision damage. Apologies.

[kardar233]

Use Crescent Blades from Dragon 275. You can throw two of them simultaneously and that should stack with Palm Throw.

[Garwain]

I have updated the first post to reflect my current build.


That's fine, but in fairness to me, you've been somewhat terse about allowed sources :smallsmile: (other than ToB).
---
getting tons of d6's to your thrown weapons is a pretty reasonable trick to getting through damage reduction and dispensing with most opponents.
---
I like the collision enhancement also. But as usual, this is one of those situations where having multiple weapons that you have to keep up enhancing is going to be a huge strain on your WBL.
So true, I didn't mention from the start that I'm avoiding ToB. A warblade/bloodstorm blade is a very effective combination. Much more elegant as well...
---
The Dragonfire Inspiration is a powerfull build as well, crazy amounts of d6 and you're doing some serious damage.
---
I added more fighter to the build to get more two weapon attacks. And with a higher enchantment, it is starting to get very very expensive to enchant 16 daggers.

[bungo_underhill]

By RAW a Swashbucklers insightful strike applies to "any light weapon, as well as any other weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse". It doesn't mention anything about it having to be melee attacks.

You could switch out 2 level of fighter for 2 more of swashbuckler - trading 1 feat for +INT bonus to damage against targets vulnerable to this damage.

You'd also get a +1 on ref saves and 4 extra skill points...

[Garwain]

By RAW a Swashbucklers insightful strike applies to "any light weapon, as well as any other weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse". It doesn't mention anything about it having to be melee attacks.

You could switch out 2 level of fighter for 2 more of swashbuckler - trading 1 feat for +INT bonus to damage against targets vulnerable to this damage.

You'd also get a +1 on ref saves and 4 extra skill points...

By RAW: Targets immune to sneak attacks or critical hits are immune to the swashbuckler’s insightful strike.
I don't want to introduce ways to negate the damage.

[Garwain]

I had left this build to rest, when my eye caught the vow of poverty. Usually I wouldn't bother with it, but the vow has the fun clause that you gain an enchantment on ALL attack and damage rolls. This effectively eliminates the expensive daggers. Just buy a boatload of them, and don't bother with the returning property. Also, your attacks are automatically considered good/magic aligned, so no need for the Sanctify Martial Strike solution from before. You can however take the feat anyway, as there are 3 spare exalted feats.

Also, with the Divine Might feat out of the window, this build has the damage output that is always on. No durations, no limitations 'per day', no buffs, no precision or elemental damage.

The Shredder, a halfling dagger spitting tornado:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jRnDpfbzEYI/TtDYa-6J_fI/AAAAAAAAA1Q/M8a3-hhPGb4/s1600/102046.jpg


I'm not a dagger throwing circus act... I would shred the spinning wheel.
Halfling Cloistered Cleric 1/Swashbuckler 1/Hit and Run Fighter 4/Marshal 2/master thrower 5/Halfling Paragon 3/Fighter 4stats:

{table=head]Stat|base|race|lvls|class|VoP|total|mod
STR|15|-2|-|-|-|13|+1
DEX|16|+2|+4|+2|+8|32|+11
CON|8|-|-|-|+6|14|+2
INT|14|-|-|-|+2|16|+3
WIS|11|-|-|-|-|11|+0
CHA|13|-|+1|-|+4|18|+4[/table]
point buy 32
build:
{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat|VoP bonus
1|cloistered cleric|Power Attack|Point Blank Shot (Elf Domain), Weapon focus (dagger)(war domain), Knowledge Devotion (swapped Knowledge Domain)|AC bonus +4
2|Swashbuckler|-|Weapon Finesse
3|fighter|Sacred Vow|Two Weapon Fighting, Hit and Run fighter variant|Endure Elements, AC bonus +5
4|fighter|-|Rapid Shot|Exalted Strike +1
5|fighter|-|-|Sustenance
6|fighter|Precise Shot|Weapon Specialization|AC bonus +6, Deflection +1
7|Marshal|-|Motivate Intelligence minor aura (Cha to INT checks)|Resistance +1, Ability Increase
8|Marshal|-|Motivate Ardor major aura (+1 Damage)|Natural Armor +1, mind shielding
9|Master Thrower|Brutal Throw|Quick Draw, Palm Throw (trick)|AC bonus +7
10|Master Thrower|-|Evasion|Exalted Strike +2, DR 5/magic
11|Master Thrower|-|Two with one blow (trick)|Ability Increase
12|Master Thrower|Power Throw|Snatch Arrows, Deflection +2|AC bonus +8, deflection +2|greater sustenance
13|Master Thrower|-|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)|resistance +2, energy resistance 5
14|Halfling Paragon|-|Athletic prowess, save bonus|Exalted Strike +3, freedom of movement
15|Halfling Paragon|Vow of Poverty|Thrown weapon mastery (+2 dam)|AC bonus +9, Ablility Increase, DR 5/evil
16|Halfling Paragon|-|Ability Increase (+2dex)|Natural Armor +2, bonus exalted feat
17|Fighter|-|-|Exalted Strike +4, resistance +3, regeneration
18|Fighter|Ranged Weapon Mastery|Improved Two-Weapon Fighting|AC bonus +10, Deflection +3, true seeing, bonus exalted feat
19|Fighter|-|-|Ability Increase, DR 10/evil
20|Fighter|-|Greater Two-Weapon Fighting|Exalted Strike +5, energy resistance 15, bonus exalted feat[/table]

BAB: 17, Fort: +22, Refl: +25, Will: +14, Init: +13, average HD: 8.5
AC=10+11(dex)+10(AC bonus)+3(deflection)+2(natural)=36

Skills:
Skill point allocation doesn't matter much. These 3 things are important:
-5 ranks cross class 'Sleight of Hand' needed to enter master thrower
-2 skill points for 'Collector of Stories' skill trick
-both cloistered cleric and Marshal have all knowledge skills as class skill, and thus 6 ranks in all relevant knowledge skill will fuel Knowledge Devotion.

Breakdown at lvl 20:
Ranged Touch Power Throw attacks: +17(bab)+11(dex)+1(race)+1(size)+1(PBS)+1(w.focus) +5(weapon)+3(Knowl.dev)+2(ranged w. mastery)-17(power throw)-2(2WF)-2(rapid shot)

with palm throw, rapid shot and two weapon chain: +21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+6

= 13 hits against touch AC 22 or less (including crits and misses)
= 17.25 hits against touch AC 12 or less (including crits and misses)

Damage: 1d3(dagger)+1(PBS)+2(W.Spec.)+5(weapon enchant.)+2(ranged w. mastery)+3.25(knowl.dev)+1(aura)+2(half. parag)+17(power throw)
= 35.25 damage (good/magic, +11 if target is flatfooted)

damage range:
DR15/-, not flatfooted, touch AC 22: 13 hits x 20.25 = 263 damage
DR/0, magic or good, touch AC 12, flatfooted: 17.25 x 46.25 = 798 damage

Notes:
- Range Increment is 10+20=30ft and within PBS range. For attacks further than 30ft, you take -2 penalty and loose PBS bonus.
- Knowledge devotion is at least +2: cloistered cleric has all Knowledge skills and the necessary skill point to put 4 ranks in each. 6ranks+2int+2cha(aura)+5 skill trick (collector of stories) = +15. At higher levels this becomes +18 and thus +3.
- true strike and magic weapon are domain spells but not included in calculation
- extra attacks with 'Two with one blow' trick from master thrower for even more attacks. With the high attack bonus and ranged touch attacks, you can spare another -4 to hit 2 targets at once.
- 3 exalted feats to be determined, but could be: Nymph's Kiss, Exalted Spell Resistance, Sanctified Martial Strike
Equipment:

- as much ordinary daggers as he can carry

sources:
cloistered cleric - Unearthed Arcana
Halfling Paragon - Unearthed Arcana
elf domain - SpC
Master thrower, Swashbuckler - complete warrior
Brutal throw, power throw - complete adventurer
Marshal - Miniatures Handbook
Collector of Stories - Complete Scoundrel
Knowledge devotion - complete champion
ranged weapon mastery - PHBII
Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty - BoED
Hit and Run Tactics fighter variant - Drow of the Underdark

[Gwendol]

Me likes a lots! Fun times ahead!

[Garwain]

Update 5:
- Changed Race to Water Halfling (UA) for extra +2 CON
- dumped levels of Halfling Paragon and Fighter for Divine Crusader and Ordained Champion.
- introduced the leadership feat so that a lvl 17 cleric can be attracted to shuffle away the exalted feats and grant inherent stat bonusses.
- Feat 'Ordered Chaos' added in order not to change LG aligment when doing the feat shuffle.
- holy warrior reserve feat and reïntroduction of the Divine Might feat give a substantial damage boost.


LG Water Halfling Cloistered Cleric of Heironious 1/Hit and Run Fighter 2/Marshal 2/Ordained Champion 1/master thrower 5/Divine Crusader 9

For the full build breakdown, see opening post.

new Build:

{table=head]Stat|base|race|lvls|inherent|VoP|total|mod
STR|15|-2|--|--|--|13|+1
DEX|15|+2|+2|+5|+6|30|+10
CON|09|+2|+1|--|+2|14|+2
INT|12|--|--|--|+4|16|+3
WIS|11|--|--|--|--|11|+0
CHA|15|--|+2|+5|+8|30|+10[/table]
point buy 32



Water Halfling Cloistered Cleric of Heironious 1/Hit and Run Fighter 2/Marshal 2/Ordained Champion 1/master thrower 5/Divine Crusader 9[/CENTER]
build:
{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat|VoP bonus
1|cloistered cleric|Sacred Vow|Knowledge Devotion (swapped Knowledge domain), 2 more domains|AC bonus +4
2|fighter|-|Hit and Run variant, Point Blank Shot |-
3|fighter|Vow of Poverty|Precise Shot|Endure Elements, AC bonus +5
4|Marshal|-|Skill focus (shuffled to Weapon Finesse)(CHA to DEX aura)|Exalted Strike +1, Exalted Feat: Nymph's Kiss
5|Marshal|-|(Motivated Ardor Aura: +1 dam)|Sustenance
6|Ordained Champion|Power Attack|Weapon Focus (longsword), Weapon Focus (Dagger), Brutal Throw|AC bonus +6, Deflection +1, exalted feat shuffled to Rapid Shot
7|Master Thrower|-|Quick Draw, Palm throw (trick)|Resistance +1, Ability Increase
8|Master Thrower|-|Evasion|Natural Armor +1, mind shielding, exalted feat shuffled to Divine Might
9|Master Thrower|Power Throw|Two with one blow (trick)|AC bonus +7
10|Master Thrower|-|Snatch Arrows, Deflection +2|Exalted Strike +2, DR 5/magic, exalted feat shuffled to Improved Initiative
11|Master Thrower|-|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)|Ability Increase
12|Divine Crusader|TWF|-|greater sustenance, exalted feat shuffled to Improved Precise Shot
13|Divine Crusader|-|-|resistance +2, energy resistance 5
14|Divine Crusader|-|-|Exalted Strike +3, freedom of movement, exalted feat shuffled to Improved TWF
15|Divine Crusader|undetermined feat|-|AC bonus +9, Ablility Increase, DR 5/evil
16|Divine Crusader|-|Weapon Specialization(longsword)|Natural Armor +2, bonus exalted feat, exalted feat shuffled to Greater TWF
17|Divine Crusader|-|-|Exalted Strike +4, resistance +3, regeneration
18|Divine Crusader|Leadership|-|AC bonus +10, Deflection +3, true seeing, exalted feat shuffled to Holy Warrior
19|Divine Crusader|-|-|Ability Increase, DR 10/evil
20|Divine Crusader|-|-|Exalted Strike +5, energy resistance 15, exalted feat shuffled to Ranged Weapon Masteryneed weapon spec first[/table]

BAB: 16, Fort: +20, Refl: +18, Will: +15, Init: +26, d8 hit dice
AC=10+10(dex)+10(AC bonus)+3(deflection)+2(natural)=35

Skills:
Skill point allocation doesn't matter much. These 3 things are important:
-4 ranks cross class 'Sleight of Hand' needed to enter master thrower
-2 skill points for 'Collector of Stories' skill trick
-Marshal has all knowledge skills as class skill, and thus ranks in all 6 relevant knowledge skill will fuel Knowledge Devotion. Note that Cloistered Cleric does not have all knowledge skills as the Knowledge Domain is traded away for knowledge devotion.
Breakdown at lvl 20:
Ranged Touch Power Throw attacks:
16(bab)+10(dex)+1(race)+1(size)+1(PBS)+1(w.focus)+ 5(weapon)+3(Knowl.dev)+2(ranged w. mastery)-16(power throw)-2(TWF)-2(rapid shot)= 20

with TWF, ITWF, GTWF and Rapid Shot, 16 attacks on the full round routine:
+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5

DAMAGE per dagger:
1d3(dagger)+1(PBS)+2(W.Spec.)+5(weapon)+1(aura)+2( ranged w. mastery)+3(knowl.dev)+9(Holy Warrior)+10(Divine Might)+16(power throw)= 51 dam (+10 = 61 dam if flat-footed (which would happen often with +26 init)

Note that the crit thread range is 17-20/x2, so with that many attacks, there will be critical hits.

For a high CR critter, I assume a touch AC of 20, DR15/-, and not flatfooted and The Shredder is still doing 450-500 damage.


Notes:
In this build, nothing goes to waste:
Water Halfling: +3 to hit due to size, race and dex. Water variant gives extra CON.
cloistered cleric: 1 domain traded for knowledge devotion, 2 domain powers
Cloistered Cleric: high CHA synergy for a lot of turn attempts, used to fuel Divine Might
Cloistered Cleric: access to 'magic weapon', prereq
worships Heironious: access to War domain, LG deity for exalted feats and VoP, prereq for Ordained Champion
Hit and Run fighter: 2 bonus fighter feats, and dex to damage when target is flatfooted.
Marshal: +1 damage aura, CHA to dex checks for maximum CHA synergy. With improved Initiative, dex, cha and hit and run fighter, the Initiative is +26. Winning initiative is the easiest way to get the target flat-footed, see point above.
Ordained Champion: 2 domain powers traded for fighter feats, access to fourth domain: War. War Domain power is Weapon focus, which is a prereq for Divine Crusader.
Master Thrower: this class is fenominal. Evasion, Snatch Arrows, Quick Draw and Improved Critical as bonus feats, double each dagger attack with Weak Shot.
Divine Crusader: grants accelerated divine casting, which will fuel Holy Warrior reserve feat for a whopping +9 damage. Can only cast domain spells. Vow of Poverty: When you throw a lot of daggers, you cannot afford to entchant them all. VoP does that for you. Every dagger becomes a +5 dagger. The large amount of exalted feats are not wasted either.
Leadership is taken to attract a lvl 17 cleric. His task is to provide you some inherent stat bonusses and shuffle your exalted feats.
Equipment:

- as much ordinary daggers as he can carry

sources:

cloistered cleric - Unearthed Arcana
Water Halfling - Unearthed Arcana
Master thrower - complete warrior
Brutal throw - complete adventurer
Power throw - complete adventurer
Collector of Stories - Complete Scoundrel p85
Knowledge devotion - complete champion p60
Divine Might - complete champion
Holy Warrior - complete champion
ranged weapon mastery - PHBII
Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty - BoED
Hit and Run Tactics fighter variant - Drow of the Underdark
Embrace the Dark Chaos, Shun the Dark Chaos, Ordered Chaos - Fiendish Codex I


16(bab)+10(dex)+1(race)+1(size)+1(PBS)+1(w.focus)+ 5(weapon)+3(Knowl.dev)+2(ranged w. mastery)-16(power throw)-2(TWF)-2(rapid shot)= 20 to hit ranged touch attack

1d3(dagger)+1(PBS)+2(W.Spec.)+5(weapon)+1(aura)+2( ranged w. mastery)+3(knowl.dev)+9(Holy Warrior)+10(Divine Might)+16(power throw)= 51 dam (61dam against flat-footed, init = +26)

[Randomguy]

Very nice build. For extra fun, have your cohort hit you with Girallon's blessing every once in a while.

Don't you have a bit of a transportation problem, though? I mean, unless you took a feat for it that I overlooked, your maximum range for daggers is only 50 feet, and you can't get any magical teleportation stuff, so you're in trouble against anything with ranged attacks and a high move speed. (VoP doesn't grant a fly speed, does it?) Stockpilling on darts as well as daggers would help a bit, though.

Wouldn't the build be a bit stronger if you took VoP later on, so you could spend all your Wealth by Level on stuff like inherent bonuses and possibly the feathered wings graft (and maybe other grafts, if there are any good ones) before you take VoP? You already get inherent bonuses from your cleric cohort, but with all the dark chaos shuffles and Miracles, he'll probably be a level or two lower because of all the XP he spends, so this would help a bit.

[Andorax]

Ordered Chaos may allow you to avoid alignment loss...but will it also allow you to avoid losing the [exalted] status? That's trickier than just "must stay Good", and willingly submitting to the Dark Chaos Shuffle sounds to me like a one-way ticket to the wasted feat wasteland.

[only1doug]

Selling points:
- 16 ranged touch attacks for 61! damage each during full round
- lvl 9 divine spells
- not setting specific
- not ToB
- no elemental damage
- no situational damage

Can I enquire as to how you are casting L9 spells? or is that just from the leadership feat / cleric follower?

[Randomguy]

Can I enquire as to how you are casting L9 spells? or is that just from the leadership feat / cleric follower?

He gets 9s from one domain from Divine Crusader. Although in the opening post it says he has 3 domains to choose from, and I don't know how he got that.


Which domain are you using, anyway?

[Kuulvheysoon]

He gets 9s from one domain from Divine Crusader. Although in the opening post it says he has 3 domains to choose from, and I don't know how he got that.


Which domain are you using, anyway?

You know, that was my question when I looked over his build. HE says that he's got three domains to choose from for spells, but... Divine Crusader doesn't work that way. When you enter it, you choose a single domain. That's ALL of your spells. You can't spontaneously decide to change the domain to any that you otherwise have access to.

[Greyfeld85]

When I read the title of this thread, I thought the OP was going to present a build to replicate The Shredder from the TMNT universe.

I am disappoint.

[whibla]

It's certainly an interesting build, but how are you getting Ranged Weapon Mastery, without the prerequisites, at lvl 20? Or is weapon spec. no longer required?

[Diarmuid]

I'm a bit amused at the hardcore "no ToB, no setting, etc" stance when the OP is fully willing to assume Dark Chaos Shuffle is fine and doing so will have no repercussions on his Exalted status.

[Garwain]

You know, that was my question when I looked over his build. HE says that he's got three domains to choose from for spells, but... Divine Crusader doesn't work that way. When you enter it, you choose a single domain. That's ALL of your spells. You can't spontaneously decide to change the domain to any that you otherwise have access to.
Good catch! In an earlier version I tried to incorporate Domain Spontaneity, but I realized it doesn't work that way. Removed it from the OP. Still capable of lvl 9 casting though.


It's certainly an interesting build, but how are you getting Ranged Weapon Mastery, without the prerequisites, at lvl 20? Or is weapon spec. no longer required?
I was toying with the feats and the Weapon Specialization from the Divine Crusader counts only for the Deity's favored weapon. That will need improvement somehow...



I'm a bit amused at the hardcore "no ToB, no setting, etc" stance when the OP is fully willing to assume Dark Chaos Shuffle is fine and doing so will have no repercussions on his Exalted status.
Yes, fluffwise this is the part I'm struggling with as well. But by RAW, I don't see a problem:


A character with only one Abyssal heritor feat can
be of any alignment, but he immediately becomes chaotic (if
he wasn’t already) upon taking a second, unless he possesses
the Ordered Chaos feat.
So in theory, if you are shuffling one feat after another I don't even need to take the Ordered Chaos feat. Might as well swap it for Weapon Specialization (dagger) then.I need fighter lvl 4 for that...

[Togo]

Similar to a number of builds I and my group have been playing with. The principle difference is that we went bard rather than marshal, and tried to max out inspire courage bonuses, didn't touch VoP, and instead of divine crusader, used chameleon.

I'm not sure you're getting full value out of the tie to charisma. Marshal gets you a small bonus and a feat via the dubious chaos shuffle, and while divine crusader gives you a 9th level spell to cast, you're locked into a deity that has dagger as favoured weapon, which in most settings isn't going to give you great synergy.

Going human and getting chameleon, on the other hand, gets you better combat bonuses, and access to a wide range of spells, including the ranger and assasin lists. It means you can dump charisma, get better dex (and strength if you really feel you need it), and have a selection of utility powers and spells.

The other possibilities are to check out the kensai and targeteer ACFs for fighter (both from Dragon). For a non-Vop variant, try getting gloves of infinite blades (MiC) enchanted to produce magical weapons.

[Andorax]

When dealing with Exalted status, the line between fluff and crunch gets VERY blurry. Willingly infusing yourself with the raw primordial chaos of the Abyss...repeatedly...in order to change out the Blessed feats granted to you for being an Exalted being for something "more useful"? I'm having a hard time fathoming a DM who looks any further than "oh look a chart with free feats on it" being ok with this idea.

If you're planning a Dark Chaos Shuffle anyway, why not just go all the way down that path and spend a few months in a smelly mudhole instead of bothering with an uber-moral code?

[eggs]

Only one Ordained Champion level is weird, especially when that last Divine Crusader level loses a point of BA.

[Garwain]

Only one Ordained Champion level is weird, especially when that last Divine Crusader level loses a point of BA.

Ordained Champion does a couple of nice things, all in 1 level:
- trade your domains for fighter feats
- grants extra war domain (prereq for the Holy Warrior reserve feat)
- full bab
- spontaneously cast war domain spells, for all cleric spells prepared. Note that the Holy Warrior reserve feat states that you have to be able to cast at lease a lvl4 war domain spell. It doesn't say to have one prepared. So, no need to ever again prepare war domain spells.

EDIT: Oh, I understand your suggestion to replace the last 2 levels of Divine Crusader with 2 levels of Ordained Champion, which would mean more feats, more bab and not loose out on spellprogression. Good catch!
Thanks for your input all, this has been a great excercise. And thanks for the Chameleon tip, I'm putting a revised version of the build togheter. No more feat shuffles or leadership. Stay tuned.

[Garwain]

Thanks to the Chameleon tip, I believe the build got only better:

stats:

{table=head]Stat|base|item|lvls|inherent|Class|total|mod
STR|13|--|--|--|--|13|+1
DEX|15|+6|--|+5|+4|30|+10
CON|11|--|+1|--|--|12|+1
INT|10|--|--|--|--|10|+0
WIS|14|+4|--|--|--|18|+4
CHA|15|+6|+4|+5|--|30|+10[/table]
point buy 32

build:
{table=head]Lvl|class|level feat|class bonus / feat
1|cloistered cleric|Able Learner, Weapon Focus: Dagger|Knowledge Devotion, -undefined domain 1-, War Domain (Weapon Focus: Longsword), Divine Metamagic (persistent)(flaw1), TWF (flaw2)
2|Fighter|-|PBS, Hit and Run variant
3|fighter|Divine Might|Precise Shot
4|fighter|-|-
5|fighter|-|Rapid Shot
6|Marshal|Weapon Specialization|CHA to Dex checks
7|Marshal|-|Motivated Ardor aura
8|Ordained Champion|-|Ranged Weapon Mastery (domain 1), Improved TWF (domain 2)
9|Master Thrower|Power Attack|Quick Draw, Palm throw (trick)
10|Master Thrower|-|Evasion
11|Master Thrower|-|Two with one blow (trick)
12|Master Thrower|Brutal Throw|Snatch Arrows, Deflection +2
13|Master Thrower|-|Improved Critical, Weak Spot (trick)
14|Chameleon|-|-
15|Chameleon|Power Throw|Greater TWF
16|Chameleon|-|-
17|Chameleon|-|-
18|Chameleon|Holy Warrior|-
19|Chameleon|-|-
20|Chameleon|-|-
[/table]
16d8+4d10+20 = 127hp
saves: 24/17/19
init: +22

Skills:
Able Learner handles skill points allocation.
-Dex skills profit from added Cha
-5 ranks in Ride skills to control a warmount.
-4 ranks cross class 'Sleight of Hand' needed to enter master thrower
-2 skill points for 'Collector of Stories' skill trick

Breakdown at lvl 20:
Ranged Touch Power Throw attacks:
20(BAB)+10(dex)+3(Knowl. Dev)+1(PBS)+3(persisted div. favor)+4(chameleon)+1(Weapon Focus)+2(RWM)-4(extra attacks)-20(power throw) = 20

for 16 attacks: +20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+15/+15/+10/+10/+10/+10/+5/+5

=> damage = 1d4(dagger)+20(power throw)+10(Divine Might)+3(Knowl.Dev)+(1PBS)+3(div.favor)+1d6(gloves )+4(chameleon)+2(Weap.Spec)+2(RWM)+1(aura)+5(Holy Warrior) = 56 dam (+10 if flat-footed)

Notes:
This build focuses on the fighter/cleric options from the chameleon. At level 7, he can sustain them both, granting lvl5 divine spells and +4 to 'to hit' and 'damage'. We double the profit by qualifying for the Holy Warrior reserve feat and using the turn attempts to persist Divine Favor and Divine Power and to fuel Divine Might.

If you think that I don't qualify for Holy warrior, note that the ordained champion grants spontaneous war domain casting, and the reserve feat states that you should be able to cast it, not have it prepared.

All in all, I'm glad that this could be done without the feat shuffle or exalted status. I hesitated to switch to Human for the race, but it solves the tedious skill point allocation and grants an extra feat.

For extra mobility, buy a warmount so that you can still do a full attack and move in the same round. In fact all dex skills have +20 bonus.

Equipment:

- as much ordinary daggers as he can carry
- +6 dex item
- +6 cha item
- gloves of agile strike
- nightsticks (if allowed)
- light armor with lots of dex
sources:

cloistered cleric - Unearthed Arcana
Master thrower - complete warrior
Brutal throw - complete adventurer
Power throw - complete adventurer
Collector of Stories - Complete Scoundrel p85
Knowledge devotion - complete champion p60
Divine Might - complete champion
Holy Warrior - complete champion
Ordained Champion - complete Champion p90
ranged weapon mastery - PHBII
Hit and Run Tactics fighter variant - Drow of the Underdark
gloves of agile strike - MiC
Chameleon - Races of Destiny p111

[ShneekeyTheLost]

But... where's the CLAWS... the full plate... the foot clan...

[Amoren]

A mistake I think you've made. Divine Metamagic can only be applied to a metamagic feat which you already have. So you'd need persist spell before you can take DMM: Persist.

[Kuulvheysoon]

A mistake I think you've made. Divine Metamagic can only be applied to a metamagic feat which you already have. So you'd need persist spell before you can take DMM: Persist.

Not only that, but Extend Spell is a prerequisite for Persist Spell. So he's short at least 2 feats.

[Invader]

Keep in mind also that a dagger weighs 1lb. and you're throwing 16 of them a round. 64 daggers/64lbs is good for 4 rounds but by that point you're getting a bit absurd on how many daggers you can carry on your person without magical help.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Keep in mind also that a dagger weighs 1lb. and you're throwing 16 of them a round. 64 daggers/64lbs is good for 4 rounds but by that point you're getting a bit absurd on how many daggers you can carry on your person without magical help.

Gauntlets of Infinite Blades?

[Invader]

Gauntlets of Infinite Blades?

Not with VoP or is that idea out and I missed where he dropped it?

[Amoren]

I don't see it in his latest stat block.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Not with VoP or is that idea out and I missed where he dropped it?

If the one at the top of the page is the most current version, then he has dropped it.

[Invader]

If the one at the top of the page is the most current version, then he has dropped it.

It's hard to keep track when there's 15 different versions and he never said he was dropping it :smallamused:

[Garwain]

It's hard to keep track when there's 15 different versions and he never said he was dropping it :smallamused:
Mjah, it is indeed difficult to get all the versions organized. I'm putting the latest build in the OP, and the previous versions can be found in the posts where they were presented.

Yes I dropped the exalted status and the feat shuffle. It occured to me that in fact, with that trick there is little use of an optimizing a build.

Regarding the DMM feat, could you please point out where it says you need to have the extend and presistant metamagic feats?
- it is not listed as a prerequisite
- it is not listed in the feat description

The feat says: choose a metamagic feat
but doesn't say: choose a metamagic feat that you know

[Amoren]

It's clarified in the Complete Divine Errata;

"When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat that
you have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat.
As a free action, you can take the energy from turning
or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat
to divine spells that you know. . . ."

[Garwain]

Gauntlets of Infinite Blades?
Problem with the gauntlet is that creating 1 dagger costs a swift action and the dagger stays only for 3 rounds.

Regarding the weight, it is a point I have neglected. To sustain 5 rounds of throwing before you have to start picking them up, the total weight is 80lbs. With a STR score of 13 and +6 str (because Divine Power is persisted), the shredder is has 36lbs for his other gear and still has a light load.

Are there dagger variants that weigh less than 1 pound, and also have the 19-20/x2 threat range? This is what I found as alternatives:

- Sandstorm: desert throwing daggers, but exotic weapons. Damage is 1d6 instead of 1d4 but still 1 pound.
- Darts are lighter and have better range increment, but lower threat range.
- Frostburn has the Glot, also exotic, better crit range, same damage, bludgeoning damage.
- RotW: Skiprocks, exotic, worse crit range, better base damage, only weighs 1/4 lb. and is treated as ammunition.

[Amoren]

Couldn't you just use 16 +1 returning/teleporting daggers instead? Since you're no longer bound by Vow of Poverty you can take all the magic you have WPL for. It'd be pretty expense, though...

[Mithril Leaf]

Assuming a high tolerance for cheese, 50 morphing shurikens can turn into 50 daggers that cost the same price as a single. The single most useful expenditure of money for throwers.

[Togo]

Problem with the gauntlet is that creating 1 dagger costs a swift action and the dagger stays only for 3 rounds.

Creating a magical dagger costs 1 swift action. Creating a normal dagger doesn't use a charge, and isn't a swift action. The text is quite clear on how often you can do this (as often as necessary).

[Garwain]

Creating a magical dagger costs 1 swift action. Creating a normal dagger doesn't use a charge, and isn't a swift action. The text is quite clear on how often you can do this (as often as necessary).
The tekst is quite clear on the fact that you still need a swift action to activate:


GAUNTLET OF INFINITE BLADES
Activation: Swift (mental)
A gauntlet of infinite blades allows you to
produce a weapon at a moment’s notice.
When it is activated, a dagger appears in
the hand wearing the gauntlet. This ability
functions as often as needed, though
the dagger disappears 3 rounds after it is
created.

And DAMN THE ERRATA.... back to the drawing board for 2 more feats....

[Darrin]

The tekst is quite clear on the fact that you still need a swift action to activate:

And DAMN THE ERRATA.... back to the drawing board for 2 more feats....

Gloves of Endless Javelines (7000 GP, MIC p. 194). Free action to activate, unlimited +1 force javelins.