Help me make rules for a magic item that lets a player become any predator

[Cookiemobsta]

Hey,

So I'm DMing a game where everyone is currently level 8. I gave everyone in the party a magic item that had a once per day ability, and so far most people are enjoying their weapons a lot. However, I gave the party assassin a weapon with the ability to turn into any predator he could think of.

This was maybe not the best idea, since it creates balance issue (a cat and a T-Rex are both predators.) But he really liked the ideas of being able to turn into predators. So could anyone offer me advice on how to make this work? I'd like to be able to set it up so rather than having a few animals he can turn into, there's general rules that allow him to turn into any animal and have the stats for that make sense. The goal would be for him to have the fluffy "feel" of the animal and be more powerful in combat than he normally is, but not by a ton. Are there any suggestions for this?

[teslas]

You opened a giant can of worms all over yourself. Apart from manually sitting down and creating each particular creature he can turn into, probably including adjusted hit dice and other such qualities, no, no suggestions.

You made the bed. Enjoy sleeping in it.

[Diarmuid]

I agree that limiting it to "Animals" and putting some kind of HD cap or range into effect is a decent starting point.

Might not be bad to simply pick 2-3 forms per HD range to alleviate MM browsing.

Or you go a completely different route and do something like adding a "Predator Form" like the Druid shapeshift variant where he just gets predatory buffs (+dex, +str, bite attack, etc) for a time.

[Godskook]

Best advice? Probably crib wildshape(using Rich Burlew's fix on the polymorph ruleset), with either a HD cap(more balanced) or a scaling HD limit based on his ECL(less balanced but more in line with what you said it actually did). Either way, the reason stronger creatures aren't available is easy, "the blank(magic or PC) isn't strong enough for that".

[Gavinfoxx]

Give it a HD *and* size cap, *and* limit it to animals...

[Bloodgruve]

Another solution would be to look at the Druid Shapeshifter ACF from PHB2. It has base stat increases but you'll know what you're getting into. You could allow the form to be whatever the player wants but it could simply sit over the chassis of Shapeshifter. Its more predictable than wildshape ;)

GL
Blood~

[Lord Vampyre]

Have it increase his physical stats while decreasing his mental stats. If wis, int, or cha ever drop to animal levels he goes into a frenzy and attacks the party. Wisdom could increase strength while intelligence increases dexterity, and charisma increases constitution. This will give the character a limit as to how powerful he can actually get before having to deal with consequences. For special abilities that are outside the realm of most predators, give them an additional cost to int of wis. For the price of becoming slightly more feral the player will be able to change into almost anything.

Generally, players will come up with 2 or 3 types of creatures they like to turn into. Stat these forms out. When using something else play it by ear.

[teslas]

If wis on int ever drop to animal levels he goes into a frenzy and attacks the party...

...For the price of becoming slightly more feral the player will be able to change into almost anything...

First thing I quoted:
Absolutely freakin' ridiculous, and that is a horrible way to "reward" the player and party. How can you think this is fun at all? Even if reduced to animal-level intelligence, he will know who his allies and friends are. Dogs have 2 intelligence, yet still manage to not maul their companions.

For the second thing:
Maybe even moreso? Very few animals are suicidal, if that's what you're getting at. Unless he changed into a raging badger or something with a similar mechanic, why on earth would he choose to fight something until he died? I can't think of one single predatory animal that would choose to do this. Hell, even badgers will flee from larger creatures unless cornered. They are predators (sometimes), but the majority of their meals are smaller than they are and pose no real threat of injury apart from an errant bite or scratch that might get infected.

Even if that's not what you're getting at, the entire swapping stats out for other stats is a giant convoluted mess that can be solved by a more elegant system, like the myriad of ones proposed above in this thread. Just... just no.


I believe, sir, that I would hate to be a part of any game where you were the DM.


edit-
And another thing to tie into the first point: If he's changing into a predator, he might very well gain the Scent ability, further cementing his ability to recognize enemies from allies.

[eggs]

Another option is to take a menu-based approach instead of basing predator stats on the actual creature's.

Calibrate the benefits to balance with whatever the other party members' special abilities look like.

Example:
Choose 1 Option from Menu A + 1/4 HD (may be selected once each)
Choose 1 Option from Menu B +1/6 HD (may be selected once)
At 2 HD, choose 1 Option from Menu C, +1/4 HD beyond 2 (each may be selected multiple times with stacking benefits)
{table=head]Menu A | Menu B | Menu C
Trip (as Wolf)| 1d8 Bite Attack|Physical Ability Score +2
Improved Grab| Two 1d6 Claw Attacks|All Movement Speeds +20 ft
Size Increase (as Enlarge Person)|Two 1d6 Slam Attacks|Natural Armor +3
Size Decrease (as Reduce Person)|1d6 Tail Attack|Racial +4 to one skill
Wings with Flight 40 ft|Two 1d6 Wing Buffet Attacks (requires wings)|
Rend |Two 1d4 Tentacle attacks (may be selected more than once)|
Constrict||
Burrow 20ft||
Swim 30ft||[/table]

[Cookiemobsta]

Another option is to take a menu-based approach instead of basing predator stats on the actual creature's.

Calibrate the benefits to balance with whatever the other party members' special abilities look like.

Example:
Choose 1 Option from Menu A + 1/4 HD (may be selected once each)
Choose 1 Option from Menu B +1/6 HD (may be selected once)
At 2 HD, choose 1 Option from Menu C, +1/4 HD beyond 2 (each may be selected multiple times with stacking benefits)
{table=head]Menu A | Menu B | Menu C
Trip (as Wolf)| 1d8 Bite Attack|Physical Ability Score +1
Improved Grab| Two 1d6 Claw Attacks|All Movement Speeds +20 ft
Size Increase (as Enlarge Person)|Two 1d6 Slam Attacks|Natural Armor +3
Size Decrease (as Reduce Person)|1d6 Tail Attack|Racial +4 to one skill
Wings with Flight 40 ft|Two 1d6 Wing Buffet Attacks (requires wings)|
Rend |Two 1d4 Tentacle attacks (may be selected more than once)|
Constrict||
Burrow 20ft||
Swim 30ft||[/table]

This is an extremely interesting idea. Make a build your own monster, where he could either recreate a real monster or decide "Heck, I'll be a panther with wings". I think this might be the route that I go; thanks man!

[King Atticus]

I would just set a base duration of 20 rounds per day. Then he can take the HD of whatever predator he chooses subtract it from the base and that is how many round it lasts:T-rex has 18HD he gets it for 2 rounds. Tiger has 6HD he gets it for 14 rounds. The item resets itself at midnight.

I think that keeps it pretty balanced and puts the choices back in his court so he can have a lot of power if he really needs it but that sucks the power out of the item really quickly.

[Killer Angel]

I would just set a base duration of 20 rounds per day. Then he can take the HD of whatever predator he chooses subtract it from the base and that is how many round it lasts:T-rex has 18HD he gets it for 2 rounds. Tiger has 6HD he gets it for 14 rounds. The item resets itself at midnight.

I think that keeps it pretty balanced and puts the choices back in his court so he can have a lot of power if he really needs it but that sucks the power out of the item really quickly.

Actually, i think this is the best idea 'til now.

Anyway, the "custom predator" works for an eidolon... you can eventually take some idea from its evolutions.

[Keneth]

Pathfinder made polymorphing much more managable. Choose one of these (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beast-shape) and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

The menu option idea was very interesting. You may want to look at the metamorphosis power from the Pathfinder psionics book. It has a very nice list to draw from (Menu A is level 1, Menu B is level 3, and Menu C is level 6):

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-powers/m/metamorphosis


Give it a HD *and* size cap, *and* limit it to animals...

I would do it this way for sanity.