Born of the three thunders and Thunderbolt(stormcaster)

[Baldin]

eey,

I have a question, if i cast a electricity spell metamagiced with Born of the three thunders while i have the thunderbolt special ability from the stormcaster (stormwrack) does my target need to make 2 seperate foritude saved to avoid being stunned?

thanks and cheers
baldin

[Darrin]

I have a question, if i cast a electricity spell metamagiced with Born of the three thunders while i have the thunderbolt special ability from the stormcaster (stormwrack) does my target need to make 2 seperate foritude saved to avoid being stunned?

Yes. Thunderbolt (Ex) and BoTT are two different sources, so two different saves, even though the effect is similar.

[Gotterdammerung]

eey,

I have a question, if i cast a electricity spell metamagiced with Born of the three thunders while i have the thunderbolt special ability from the stormcaster (stormwrack) does my target need to make 2 seperate foritude saved to avoid being stunned?

thanks and cheers
baldin

They actually work together real well. Because BoTT will add the electricity damage needed to activate thunderbolt.

This allows you to do things like BoTT, Thunderbolt on a Sound Burst. 3 saves to pass or their stunned.

[MesiDoomstalker]

They actually work together real well. Because BoTT will add the electricity damage needed to activate thunderbolt.

This allows you to do things like BoTT, Thunderbolt on a Sound Burst. 3 saves to pass or their stunned.

I think if your forcing them to make 3 saves against the same thing, either its overkill or your save DC is pitiful (or they are much higher level).

[dextercorvia]

I think if your forcing them to make 3 saves against the same thing, either its overkill or your save DC is pitiful (or they are much higher level).

Agreed. Try to get some other status conditions in there. Cloudy Conjuration on the right spell will get you sickened, as well.

[Darrin]

I think if your forcing them to make 3 saves against the same thing, either its overkill or your save DC is pitiful (or they are much higher level).

All three saves (the two from BoTT and the third from Thunderbolt) are at the same save DC as the base spell. Unfortunately, the two saves that matter, the first save vs. stun from BoTT and the second save vs. stun from Thunderbolt, are both Fort saves, which tends to be the highest for most opponents.

Energy Subtituted orb of fire + Cloudy Conjuration might work well:

Fort save vs stun (BoTT)
Ref save vs prone (BoTT)
Fort save vs stun (Thunderbolt)
Fort save vs dazed (orb of fire)
Sickened (no save, Cloudy Conjuration)

Quick Recovery (from Lords of Madness) gives you a Will save vs. the dazing effect of BoTT. Although this does take a standard action, a move action is better than none, and Costs a move action, but you could also follow up with a swift/free/immediate action spell, such as Kaupaer's quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), which conveniently autohits and already has an electricity option.

[MesiDoomstalker]

All three saves (the two from BoTT and the third from Thunderbolt) are at the same save DC as the base spell. Unfortunately, the two saves that matter, the first save vs. stun from BoTT and the second save vs. stun from Thunderbolt, are both Fort saves, which tends to be the highest for most opponents.

Energy Subtituted orb of fire + Cloudy Conjuration might work well:

Fort save vs stun (BoTT)
Ref save vs prone (BoTT)
Fort save vs stun (Thunderbolt)
Fort save vs dazed (orb of fire)
Sickened (no save, Cloudy Conjuration)

Quick Recovery (from Lords of Madness) gives you a Will save vs. the dazing effect of BoTT. Although this does take a standard action, a move action is better than none, and you could follow up with a swift/free/immediate action spell, such as Kaupaer's quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), which conveniently autohits and already has an electricity option.

My point was the only way you can have a good chance of stunning is making them save 3 times, then your DC is pitiful.

But that option sounds very good.

[Coidzor]

My point was the only way you can have a good chance of stunning is making them save 3 times, then your DC is pitiful.

But that option sounds very good.

Sound Burst is a rather low level spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/soundBurst.htm), yes, but giving it 3 saves would make it have marginally more use. Especially for a bard caster who doesn't go into Sublime Chord and so doesn't have the whole level appropriate level of spells to have relevant save DCs thing going on.

2 saves on a swift/free action spell like Kaupaer's quickblast is necessary for a 1st level spell to have a relevant chance of having an effect without some shenanigans upping the save DCs of one's spells.

[rot42]

Quick Recovery (from Lords of Madness) gives you a Will save vs. the dazing effect of BoTT. Although this does take a standard action, a move action is better than none, and you could follow up with a swift/free/immediate action spell, such as Kaupaer's quickblast (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), which conveniently autohits and already has an electricity option.

Quick Recovery only takes a move action. :smallbiggrin:

[Darrin]

Quick Recovery only takes a move action. :smallbiggrin:

Even better. Fixed. Thanks.