Andorax
2012-03-09, 11:43 AM
Discussions in another thread have lead me to start up this separate topic. I would politely ask that debates about whether or not you *should* have an evil campagin, or why you never *would* have one, take place elsewhere.
I'm hoping to keep this thread focused on the experiences of those who have conducted evil campaigns. If it's been a dismal failure, go ahead and say why. If it's been successful, in part or full measure, tell us about what worked. If you're thinking about running a campaign with one (or all) evil characters...feel free to borrow ideas and ask questions.
To my recollection (and I've been at this a long time) I can only think of five times I've had either an evil character or an outright evil campaign,and the results have been varied. In my experience, there's three ingredients that, if not outright necessary, at least help the experience go much smoother:
1) Loyalty that goes *beyond* alignment. There has to be something that makes one or more evil characters still play nice with the other kids.
- Sometimes, it can be a genuine bond of friendship, even love...though the roleplay becomes a bit of a challenge.
- Sometimes, it can be an appeal to a higher authority that the evil character(s) are answerable to...a mentor, a government, a deity, a demonic patron.
- Even common cause can be made to work, though care needs to be taken as this tends to be a more fragile thing, and quibbling over methods can shake the group's cohesiveness.
2) Democracy, equality and fairness are great for the good guys, but tyranny, opression, and blatant favoratism actually seem to HELP evil parties get along. Obviously, I'm leaning more towards the LE side of the spectrum here, but I've actually found that having one member of the party outright in charge, with some combination of authority and power to back it up, can help tamp down the tendency of evil campaigns to fall apart.
3) A sense of purpose. Give the group an overarching goal. Good parties can hold together for the sole purpose of "discover, loot, and get more powerful", but I've found that evil parties need a more tangible motivation. If you can give them a specific purpose, something that trancends their natural inclination to stab each other in the back, then this can help keep them focused and goal-oriented.
With those thoughts in mind, here's the five scenarios I can recall. Opinions, questions and comments welcome...as are your own experiences.
1) Edition: 2nd. Setting: Spelljammer.
Oh, those wild college days...when I was able to marignally manage a gaming group of 13 people and stay up to 3:00 AM on a friday night.
With a group this size, it's almost inevitable that *someone* is going to want to go evil. In this case, it was a trio of PCs, and it was the worst possible situation. Simultaneous party fatalities lead to a smoke break where a full-blown inner-party faction was born, with the specific goal of revenge on those responsible (with, of course, no motivation beyond out-of-character knowledge).
New characters were introduced as a thief, wizard, and fighter. Carefully orchestrated starting items and class abilities allowed for masking alignments and getting past the interview process (the group as a whole was pretty harsh when it came to signing new characters onto the charter and working out proportional shares). Then the group hits a trap-heavy dungeon.
Three levels down, final boss killed, and massive piles of treasure discovered. It's going to take a while to loot everything and haul it out, so the conspirators head out first, and set up an ambush.
Nominally, they're just out to get revenge on 2 other characters (out of the total of 10), but as fate would have it, there was one of those two characters in each of the next two groups to come up from below. So they ambush and kill two injured PCs on their way out, hide the bodies, then ambush and kill three more. At this point, they're "in it up to their eyebrows" and decide they might as well finish off the last 2 PCs, since they'll never go along with it...so they set up the trap once more and manage a complete coup.
And needless to say, got a lot of players angry and resulted in that whole campaign being folded up. A early opportunity for lessons learned.
2) Edition: 2nd. Setting: Forgotten Realms (pre Time of Troubles)
Here's where I learned that the "imposed authority" thing really worked. This was an outright evil campaign from the onset...a bit of an experiment actually. Party consisted of:
Cleric of Bane (leader). A level higher than the rest, with the best armor. Understood to be the voice of the party in all discussions, and the person through whom the rest of the party received their orders.
Wizard (follower of Bane). Had orders from his master to assist the Cleric of Bane...future gains of power were promised thorugh assuring the party's success.
Cleric of Bhaal. Back in 2e, there was a clearly-ordered deific hierarchy, and Bhaal was a 'servitor god' to Bane. In that same vein, it was presumed that clerics of Bhaal would defer to clerics of Bane...an arrangement he was quite willing to accept. As such, he worked for the party leader.
2 Thieves (assassins). Devotees of Bhaal, they reported to the cleric of Bhaal for fear of Bhaal's patronage and blessing being withdrawn from them. Didn't care much for the cleric of Bane, but the Cleric of Bhaal held them in check.
Cleric of Loviatar. Again, as with the Cleric of Bhaal, the 'divine order' made her subservient to the Cleric of Bane...plus she liked the way he ran things. It suited her goals just fine.
Fighter (follower of Loviatar). As both the bodyguard and lover of the Cleric of Loviatar, he went with whatever she required. The closest thing to friction we had in the party was his jealosy of the Cleric of Bane, but knowing he'd be torn to pieces by the rest of the party was enough to hold him in check. Well...that, plus the Cleric of Bane being WELL AWARE of it and never letting his guard down.
The campaign actually lasted a fairly long time...long enough to discover that the Cleric of Bane was being duped by a Harper agent posing as a higher-up Banite in the order and sending the entire party on wild goose chases. Painful revenge was taken, but after that they sort of ran out of a solid overall goal to pursue (lesson #3 learned).
3) Edition: 3rd. Setting: Custom
This was actually a playtest we'd been invited to take part in, so take it for what it's worth. Party consisted entirely of vampires for an undead sourcebook about to come out. The scenarios were somewhat contrived, as the main focus was on test-driving the rules not a full-blown exploration of the campaign.
Anyways, common condition and common cause (survival) gave them good reasons to band together. Vampire hunters can make for very dangerous opponents when they know your actual weaknesses. And we learned that a rat can "count" as someone who lives in a house, and once charmed, is quite willing to invite the master into the building.
4) Edition: 3.5. Setting: Eberon
In this case, it was a single evil character, not an "evil campagin" so to speak, but it worked out quite well. One of the PCs was a Changeling, a Becommer, and a devoted servant of the Cabinet of Faces. While she was evil at the 'core', she was played almost as an outright multiple-personality-disorder, and between her items, Chameleon class and Personna Immersion feat (RoE), she was essentially an ever-shifting party member who could be a number of different people, each with a different alignment and personality.
In a sense, then, being evil didn't 'matter much' with this character...she was able to put on a persona and function perfectly well in the party, and she had the skills to back up her occasional absenses when she had a 'job to do' that was true to her real alignment. Even managed to put up a convincing front when investigating one of the murders she, herself, had done after the party was hired to look into it.
5) Edition: 3.5. Setting: Custom
Sadly, one of my coolest ideas never was truly realized. I had put together a two-player friendly campaign designed specifically for a long road trip. The idea was that I could run the whole show from the back seat, and the two people up front needed only to supply their in-character reactions to what I threw at them...I'd handle the dice, the character sheets, the whole deal.
The overall idea was that the two characters found themselves in a small room in an inn, each holding a cup that seemed to be full of a brackish black water, and each with no clue who the other was...or who they, themselves, were. As you may have guessed, the black water was from the river Styx, and the two PCs were quite thorough agents of evil, given the "Total Recall" treatment so they could infiltrate a particular location they'd be subtly guided to by their hidden masters.
Part of what I'd hoped to explore was how they would react when seeing how others who knew them by reputation reacted to them. Would they try to play the characters as good, not knowing their alignments in advance...or would they revert to evil ways and evil behaviors when everyone 'expected' them to.
For those curious:
Maenad Monk 2/Wilder 3/Psionic Fist 4.
"A Dark-haired man with a faint golden hue to his skin (which grows much stronger when Inertial Armor is active). Silk vest and trowsers held up by an embroidered belt, sandals, stone amulet, two simple rings. Winged, demonic looking creature (Fire Mephit) tattoo on either wrist. Large chimeric (two lion's heads, 1 black dragon in center) tattoo on chest, visible under vest."
Human Ex-Cleric 2/Rogue 3/Ur-Priest 5.
"Imposing, towering figure of solid metal. Cold iron amulet, cold to the touch, circular with spikes jutting out on the sides. All gear unmarked and unremarkable (save for their materials). In her backpack, a tome entitled Mysteries of Divine Usurpation."
"Underneath the armor, a remarkably delicate looking young woman with a haunted look to her green eyes."
I'm hoping to keep this thread focused on the experiences of those who have conducted evil campaigns. If it's been a dismal failure, go ahead and say why. If it's been successful, in part or full measure, tell us about what worked. If you're thinking about running a campaign with one (or all) evil characters...feel free to borrow ideas and ask questions.
To my recollection (and I've been at this a long time) I can only think of five times I've had either an evil character or an outright evil campaign,and the results have been varied. In my experience, there's three ingredients that, if not outright necessary, at least help the experience go much smoother:
1) Loyalty that goes *beyond* alignment. There has to be something that makes one or more evil characters still play nice with the other kids.
- Sometimes, it can be a genuine bond of friendship, even love...though the roleplay becomes a bit of a challenge.
- Sometimes, it can be an appeal to a higher authority that the evil character(s) are answerable to...a mentor, a government, a deity, a demonic patron.
- Even common cause can be made to work, though care needs to be taken as this tends to be a more fragile thing, and quibbling over methods can shake the group's cohesiveness.
2) Democracy, equality and fairness are great for the good guys, but tyranny, opression, and blatant favoratism actually seem to HELP evil parties get along. Obviously, I'm leaning more towards the LE side of the spectrum here, but I've actually found that having one member of the party outright in charge, with some combination of authority and power to back it up, can help tamp down the tendency of evil campaigns to fall apart.
3) A sense of purpose. Give the group an overarching goal. Good parties can hold together for the sole purpose of "discover, loot, and get more powerful", but I've found that evil parties need a more tangible motivation. If you can give them a specific purpose, something that trancends their natural inclination to stab each other in the back, then this can help keep them focused and goal-oriented.
With those thoughts in mind, here's the five scenarios I can recall. Opinions, questions and comments welcome...as are your own experiences.
1) Edition: 2nd. Setting: Spelljammer.
Oh, those wild college days...when I was able to marignally manage a gaming group of 13 people and stay up to 3:00 AM on a friday night.
With a group this size, it's almost inevitable that *someone* is going to want to go evil. In this case, it was a trio of PCs, and it was the worst possible situation. Simultaneous party fatalities lead to a smoke break where a full-blown inner-party faction was born, with the specific goal of revenge on those responsible (with, of course, no motivation beyond out-of-character knowledge).
New characters were introduced as a thief, wizard, and fighter. Carefully orchestrated starting items and class abilities allowed for masking alignments and getting past the interview process (the group as a whole was pretty harsh when it came to signing new characters onto the charter and working out proportional shares). Then the group hits a trap-heavy dungeon.
Three levels down, final boss killed, and massive piles of treasure discovered. It's going to take a while to loot everything and haul it out, so the conspirators head out first, and set up an ambush.
Nominally, they're just out to get revenge on 2 other characters (out of the total of 10), but as fate would have it, there was one of those two characters in each of the next two groups to come up from below. So they ambush and kill two injured PCs on their way out, hide the bodies, then ambush and kill three more. At this point, they're "in it up to their eyebrows" and decide they might as well finish off the last 2 PCs, since they'll never go along with it...so they set up the trap once more and manage a complete coup.
And needless to say, got a lot of players angry and resulted in that whole campaign being folded up. A early opportunity for lessons learned.
2) Edition: 2nd. Setting: Forgotten Realms (pre Time of Troubles)
Here's where I learned that the "imposed authority" thing really worked. This was an outright evil campaign from the onset...a bit of an experiment actually. Party consisted of:
Cleric of Bane (leader). A level higher than the rest, with the best armor. Understood to be the voice of the party in all discussions, and the person through whom the rest of the party received their orders.
Wizard (follower of Bane). Had orders from his master to assist the Cleric of Bane...future gains of power were promised thorugh assuring the party's success.
Cleric of Bhaal. Back in 2e, there was a clearly-ordered deific hierarchy, and Bhaal was a 'servitor god' to Bane. In that same vein, it was presumed that clerics of Bhaal would defer to clerics of Bane...an arrangement he was quite willing to accept. As such, he worked for the party leader.
2 Thieves (assassins). Devotees of Bhaal, they reported to the cleric of Bhaal for fear of Bhaal's patronage and blessing being withdrawn from them. Didn't care much for the cleric of Bane, but the Cleric of Bhaal held them in check.
Cleric of Loviatar. Again, as with the Cleric of Bhaal, the 'divine order' made her subservient to the Cleric of Bane...plus she liked the way he ran things. It suited her goals just fine.
Fighter (follower of Loviatar). As both the bodyguard and lover of the Cleric of Loviatar, he went with whatever she required. The closest thing to friction we had in the party was his jealosy of the Cleric of Bane, but knowing he'd be torn to pieces by the rest of the party was enough to hold him in check. Well...that, plus the Cleric of Bane being WELL AWARE of it and never letting his guard down.
The campaign actually lasted a fairly long time...long enough to discover that the Cleric of Bane was being duped by a Harper agent posing as a higher-up Banite in the order and sending the entire party on wild goose chases. Painful revenge was taken, but after that they sort of ran out of a solid overall goal to pursue (lesson #3 learned).
3) Edition: 3rd. Setting: Custom
This was actually a playtest we'd been invited to take part in, so take it for what it's worth. Party consisted entirely of vampires for an undead sourcebook about to come out. The scenarios were somewhat contrived, as the main focus was on test-driving the rules not a full-blown exploration of the campaign.
Anyways, common condition and common cause (survival) gave them good reasons to band together. Vampire hunters can make for very dangerous opponents when they know your actual weaknesses. And we learned that a rat can "count" as someone who lives in a house, and once charmed, is quite willing to invite the master into the building.
4) Edition: 3.5. Setting: Eberon
In this case, it was a single evil character, not an "evil campagin" so to speak, but it worked out quite well. One of the PCs was a Changeling, a Becommer, and a devoted servant of the Cabinet of Faces. While she was evil at the 'core', she was played almost as an outright multiple-personality-disorder, and between her items, Chameleon class and Personna Immersion feat (RoE), she was essentially an ever-shifting party member who could be a number of different people, each with a different alignment and personality.
In a sense, then, being evil didn't 'matter much' with this character...she was able to put on a persona and function perfectly well in the party, and she had the skills to back up her occasional absenses when she had a 'job to do' that was true to her real alignment. Even managed to put up a convincing front when investigating one of the murders she, herself, had done after the party was hired to look into it.
5) Edition: 3.5. Setting: Custom
Sadly, one of my coolest ideas never was truly realized. I had put together a two-player friendly campaign designed specifically for a long road trip. The idea was that I could run the whole show from the back seat, and the two people up front needed only to supply their in-character reactions to what I threw at them...I'd handle the dice, the character sheets, the whole deal.
The overall idea was that the two characters found themselves in a small room in an inn, each holding a cup that seemed to be full of a brackish black water, and each with no clue who the other was...or who they, themselves, were. As you may have guessed, the black water was from the river Styx, and the two PCs were quite thorough agents of evil, given the "Total Recall" treatment so they could infiltrate a particular location they'd be subtly guided to by their hidden masters.
Part of what I'd hoped to explore was how they would react when seeing how others who knew them by reputation reacted to them. Would they try to play the characters as good, not knowing their alignments in advance...or would they revert to evil ways and evil behaviors when everyone 'expected' them to.
For those curious:
Maenad Monk 2/Wilder 3/Psionic Fist 4.
"A Dark-haired man with a faint golden hue to his skin (which grows much stronger when Inertial Armor is active). Silk vest and trowsers held up by an embroidered belt, sandals, stone amulet, two simple rings. Winged, demonic looking creature (Fire Mephit) tattoo on either wrist. Large chimeric (two lion's heads, 1 black dragon in center) tattoo on chest, visible under vest."
Human Ex-Cleric 2/Rogue 3/Ur-Priest 5.
"Imposing, towering figure of solid metal. Cold iron amulet, cold to the touch, circular with spikes jutting out on the sides. All gear unmarked and unremarkable (save for their materials). In her backpack, a tome entitled Mysteries of Divine Usurpation."
"Underneath the armor, a remarkably delicate looking young woman with a haunted look to her green eyes."