Mass Effect 3.4: Would've liked to perform experiments on seashells.

[Zevox]

Well, with the last thread hitting 50 pages, time for a new one. This thread is for the third and final entry in the Mass Effect series (or at least in this storyline in it), but discussion of the first two titles is welcome as well. As always, as a courtesy to others, keep all discussions of story events, at least of the third game, in spoiler blocks.

Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3

And it looks like I'll start maintaining a list of GitP players using the game's multiplayer mode. Broken up by system:

PC:
GitP Poster: horngeek
Origin Name: horngeek

GitP Poster: Aotrs Commander
Origin Name: AotrsCommander
Playing: Infiltrator

GitP Poster: Gamerlord
Origin Name: Gamerlord2


X-Box 360:
GitP Poster: Tome
XBL Name: Taejix
Playing: Vanguard/Adept

GitP Poster: Derthric
XBL Name: Derthric
Playing: Salarian Engineer/Infiltrator

GitP poster: Xondure
XBL Name: Royal LP

GitP Poster: thorgrim29
XBL Name: Thorgrim29
Playing: Vanguard

GitP Poster: kamikasei
XBL Name: amanadiel

GitP Poster: Mr. Blinky
XBL Name: Hells DM

PS3:
GitP Poster:
PSN Name:

[Falgorn]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.
So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

[Cristo Meyers]

Just re-posting the link in case anyone wants it:

Register at Alienware Arena to receive DLC sniper rifle. (http://www.alienwarearena.com/giveaway/mass-effect-3-giveaway)

PC version only, unfortunately.

---

I've noticed that Vega is actually kinda growing on me. He's still more or less exactly what I expected and I haven't yet missed an opportunity to punch him, but he's not quite as bad as he really could have been.

Plus I gave him the Chakram Launcher...so I can always count on him to make things explode into bloody chunks...:smallamused:

[Morty]

Hrm. I ran into the much-reviled facial recognition bug after all. Everything was fine when importing my male Shepard, because I'd modified his face im ME2, but I'd done nothing to my female Shepard, so her face couldn't be recognized. Now I wonder whether to remake it from scratch or wait until they fix it.
Also, I find the low number of possible squadmates somewhat... disheartening. It gets repetitive with just four of them.

[Mr.Moron]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.
So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

I'm going to repost my thoughts from the end of the last thread:



(In response to "People just wanted a happy ending")

An ending where Shepard dies in the final battle before getting back up to the citadel, with everything and everyone dying would have been far better. At least in that way it would have been a failure you, as shepared owned. Rather than this "victory" by little glowing boy.

Show us the Krogan losing the children they finally could have.
Show us the Quarians dying on the home world they just got back.
Show us the Turians throwing everything have at a failed attempt to take back their homeworld.

That at least it would show us what we did, even if it was ultimately a failure MEANT something.

This forces you to pick one of three magic buttons, that magically makes the reapers go away in a fashion that A) Has nothing to do with what you've achieved so far and B) Makes you betray your principles entirely.

Finally, the rationale makes no sense. "The created always betray the creator, synthetics will always destroy organics, we must destroy civilizations before that happens"

BULL-PLOPPY. You never see anything supporting that in game. I reunited the Quarians and the Geth! They were working together. Everything we heard in ME2 and 3 from legion AND saw in the Geth Consensus showed they never wanted to rebel, they never wanted to fight. The Geth were actually content living out their laborbot lives. We're told this explicitly, and the INSTANT they have a chance to go back to living peacefully and helping the Quarians they do.

The only reason there was any Geth/Quarian conflict at all was because trigger-happy hawks in the Quarian leadership decided to shoot first, answer questions never. (as an aside, why do the Mass Effect writers think these are the four qualities a leader is most likely to possess: Belligerent, Short-Sighted, Stubborn and Reckless. Seriously, leaders with even a single working brain cell seem to be a rarity.)

Shepard has a living AI on his ship who really doesn't want to do anything but figure out her own sense of "Self" and isn't interested in destroying all humans at all.

At no point ANYWHERE in the story, other than magic boy from nowhere at the end is there even the vaguest thematic hint at "Oragnics & Sythenics can never live together". Yet that is the entire justification for the entire crappy endings. Even if it wasn't a poorly written Deus Ex Machina, it'd be inexcusably out of tone with the rest of the story.

[Derthric]

Hrm. I ran into the much-reviled facial recognition bug after all. Everything was fine when importing my male Shepard, because I'd modified his face im ME2, but I'd done nothing to my female Shepard, so her face couldn't be recognized. Now I wonder whether to remake it from scratch or wait until they fix it.
Also, I find the low number of possible squadmates somewhat... disheartening. It gets repetitive with just four of them.

Four? I had seven, of course that is with "From Ashes". But still you should be closer to five or six.

[Divayth Fyr]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.
So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact, that if we cut out the entire ME2 and most of the original game, virtually NOTHING would change?

[NEO|Phyte]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.
So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

I wouldn't call what I get out of it hate, but the whole magic glowy kid explaining that it has the (notably synthetic) reapers regularly reap the galaxy of intelligent life to prevent synthetics from destroying organics, then offering you a set of non-finetuned solutions (if you're powerful enough to destroy all synthetic life, you ought to be powerful enough to destroy just the reapers while leaving my bros the Geth and EDI intact, and why the hell does synthesis destroy the mass relays?) is waaaaay out of left field.

[Giggling Ghast]

I reunited the Quarians and the Geth! They were working together.

That co-operation was only achieved through the use of Reaper tech. Your peaceful accord relies on the intervention of immortal robotic abominations from dark space. They're quite content to blast each other out of the sky otherwise.


Shepard has living AI on his ship who really doesn't want to do anything but figure out her own sense of "Self" and isn't interested in destroying all humans at all.

Again, EDI was partly created through Reaper tech. And Shepard has also encountered more than a few AIs that were completely homicidal.

[t209]

Why are the mass relays exploding in the ending when you use control paragon ending?

[Divayth Fyr]

Again, EDI was partly created through Reaper tech. And Shepard has also encountered more than a few AIs that were completely homicidal.
It's not like there aren't any homicidal organics ;P

[blackjack217]

Then install reaper tech in all AI. Problem solved.

[Falgorn]

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact, that if we cut out the entire ME2 and most of the original game, virtually NOTHING would change?

...what? They were separate games. They should be able to be self-contained. And, I don't agree with the "nothing would change" spiel. It's about how you feel you changed.
For instance, after playing all of the Mass Effect games, I watched Wrex develop from an embittered warrior to a revitalized leader, whose ideas are finally seeing fruition. The ending of the Genophage brought me a massive emotional release from the tension that had built up over the past two games.
Or, do you mean the ending specifically? What, did you want whether or not you helped the preaching hanar in ME1 to factor in to the destruction of the reapers.
@NeoPhyte
This is a fair point. I'd say suspension of disbelief, though. In a game where there is faster than light travel and a race of giant robotic cuttlefish monsters that are made of people, I'm willing to excuse that.
However, I believe that your point is reasonable.

[Avilan the Grey]

Why are the mass relays exploding in the ending when you use control paragon ending?

They explode if you control the reapers?

[Zevox]

Four? I had seven, of course that is with "From Ashes". But still you should be closer to five or six.
Well, Garrus and Tali could be dead, theoretically, which would bring it down to four without the DLC companion. Most people will likely have six or seven though.

Zevox

[Derthric]

That co-operation was only achieved through the use of Reaper tech. Your peaceful accord relies on the intervention of immortal robotic abominations from dark space. They're quite content to blast each other out of the sky otherwise.



Again, EDI was partly created through Reaper tech. And Shepard has also encountered more than a few AIs that were completely homicidal.

Two problems with your counter points. 1 all life is already influenced by Reaper Tech, the mass effect technology and relays have lead to the world we currently see in the game. 2 the diversity of life is ignored for pigeon-holing all organics and,synthetics into two neat columns. We see quarians defending geth in the morning war, we see the geth not wanting to commit genocide in the same war. Let alone the actions with EDI and the union of the geth-quarians. Also EDI's source is the rogue VI in the first game, she had sentience before the reaper additions

[t209]

They explode if you control the reapers?

Try 23:16 of this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMB2-lenTmE)! That is the proof that
Relay Stations explodes.

[Divayth Fyr]

...what? They were separate games. They should be able to be self-contained. And, I don't agree with the "nothing would change" spiel. It's about how you feel you changed.
For instance, after playing all of the Mass Effect games, I watched Wrex develop from an embittered warrior to a revitalized leader, whose ideas are finally seeing fruition. The ending of the Genophage brought me a massive emotional release from the tension that had built up over the past two games.
Or, do you mean the ending specifically? What, did you want whether or not you helped the preaching hanar in ME1 to factor in to the destruction of the reapers.
There all form a trilogy built around one thing - the Reaper threat. It's like saying that every part of the Lord of the Rings should be self-contained. And I do mean changing something about the ending. And no, I'm not counting on side-quest changing anything in that regard - but the main quest of the previous game should matter.

[Giggling Ghast]

Two problems with your counter points. 1 all life is already influenced by Reaper Tech, the mass effect technology and relays have lead to the world we currently see in the game.

As part of their plan to prevent the inevitable destruction of organic life by synthetic life, yes.


The diversity of life is ignored for pigeon-holing all organics and,synthetics into two neat columns. We see quarians defending geth in the morning war, we see the geth not wanting to commit genocide in the same war.

But they blow each other up anyway, barring extraordinary circumstances.

It's also revealed in this game that the Protheans had their own struggles with synthetic life before the Reapers. You have to kind of wonder if the Catalyst doesn't have a point.

[Avilan the Grey]

There all form a trilogy built around one thing - the Reaper threat. It's like saying that every part of the Lord of the Rings should be self-contained. And I do mean changing something about the ending. And no, I'm not counting on side-quest changing anything in that regard - but the main quest of the previous game should matter.

Um... Captain Obvious Moment: The main quest in ME1 does matter. After all, there are still organics* alive in the galaxy so that ME2 can happen. The main quest in ME2 matters, because humans are still alive at the start of ME3.

*Am I the only one bugged by the repeated "Kill all organic life every 50.000 years"? That is just false. The Reapers kill all civilized lifeforms every 50.000 years. They do not go and kill all elks. Or even gorillas.

[Mr.Moron]

That co-operation was only achieved through the use of Reaper tech. Your peaceful accord relies on the intervention of immortal robotic abominations from dark space. They're quite content to blast each other out of the sky otherwise.



Wholly incorrect.

Geth had NO desire to rebel when they gained self-awareness. Conflict only started as result of Quarian leadership shooting first. Geth even after being attacked still desired peace and tried to hide/placate the Quarians. When that was not tenable, Geth only fought until Quarians were driven off. They had no desire to destroy them.

Later the Cooperation is NOT a result of reaper tech. The geth continued to want peace. See Mass Effect 2, we learn the geth have been preseving the planet FOR the Quarians when they return. They are still open the Quarians returning.

Things only come to a head after the Quarians start yet ANOTHER war of aggression against the Geth. In the end the only reason the reaper tech "Helps" is because it stops forces the Quarians into a position where they can't destroy the Geth.

If you fail to get them to cooperate, the Geth only continue their attack after getting the reaper tech because the Quarians STILL refuse to stop attacking them.

The entire conflict is 100% on the shoulders of the Quarians at every point. The Geth never do the attacking, ever. If you could get the Quarians stop being ***** about the whole thing without giving the Geth reaper tech, it would have ended just as peacefully.

The idea that Synthetic life somehow inherently goes on "DESTROY ALL THE FLESHIES" rampages, is not supported in the game at all.

[Divayth Fyr]

The main quest in ME2 matters, because humans are still alive at the start of ME3.
As they most likely would still be - a smaller number of them, but as a race, they would survive. And it matters little, since you win by a deus ex machina anyway...


*Am I the only one bugged by the repeated "Kill all organic life every 50.000 years"? That is just false. The Reapers kill all civilized lifeforms every 50.000 years. They do not go and kill all elks. Or even gorillas.
Well, since we usually will hear it from someone, who is a part of the civilized organic life, it can be understood - if I was talking about a race planning to annihilate my kind, I wouldn't care about unimportant (from my point of view) details such as these. Hell, even using terms such as apocalypse and "the end of the world" wouldn't be too much ;)

[Derthric]

As part of their plan to prevent the inevitable destruction of organic life by synthetic life, yes.

A fair point but this still ends up embracing predestination which of course seems like the opposite of the theme. Its just "all this has happened before and will happen again", you just play into another predestination, one stated by the catalyst. This is the problem, its all dependent upon something being inevitable.



But they blow each other up anyway, barring extraordinary circumstances.

see above. Basically it comes down to if you support predestination or self determination. And I side against predestination.

[Triscuitable]

I've noticed that Vega is actually kinda growing on me. He's still more or less exactly what I expected and I haven't yet missed an opportunity to punch him, but he's not quite as bad as he really could have been.

In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.

[Avilan the Grey]

In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.

The little I have seen of him, I like him.

[Falgorn]

Wholly incorrect.

Geth had NO desire to rebel when they gained self-awareness. Conflict only started as result of Quarian leadership shooting first. Geth even after being attacked still desired peace and tried to hide/placate the Quarians. When that was not tenable, Geth only fought until Quarians were driven off. They had no desire to destroy them.

Later the Cooperate is NOT a result of reaper tech. The geth continued to want peace. See Mass Effect 2, we learn the geth have been preseving the planet FOR the quarians when they return. They are still open the Quarians returning.

Things only come to a head after the Quarians start yet ANOTHER war of aggression against the Geth. In the end the only reason the reaper tech "Helps" is because it stops forces the Quarians into a position where they can't destroy the Geth.

If you fail to get them to cooperate, the Geth only continue their attack after getting the reaper tech because the Quarians STILL refuse to stop attacking them.

The entire conflict is 100% on the shoulders of the Quarians at every point. The Geth never do the attacking, ever. If you could get the Quarians stop being ***** about the whole thing without giving the Geth reaper tech, it would have ended just as peacefully

Still, your point was that there's no evidence that suggests that they can't get along.
Yet you point to examples of them...not getting along. EDI is unique in that the story DIRECTLY STATES that she is an exception of the crazed AI theme.

[Mr.Moron]

Still, your point was that there's no evidence that suggests that they can't get along.
Yet you point to examples of them...not getting along. EDI is unique in that the story DIRECTLY STATES that she is an exception of the crazed AI theme.


My statement was that "The Created always rebel against the creator, Sythetic Life always destroys Organic" is incorrect. Which it is. We don't see evidence for that. Glow-boys claim isn't "Organics & Sythetics can't be Bros" and I'd still think we don't really have evidence for that claim either, but since glow-boy didn't say that I don't really see any reason to argue for/against it.

Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The support just isn't there to claim the games provide you with any real evidence what glow-boy suggestions is even close to correct.

Heck even the gambling AI that blows itself up in ME1 only does so because it's afraid people are going to kill it.

If he was claiming "The Creator is always a massive **** that destroys the created for no reason. Organic life will always provoke Synethic life until they can only preserve themselves by fighting back" maybe, glow-boy would have a tiny bit of a point. However, that isn't what he says.

Even if he was 100% right. It's still a poorly-written Deus Ex Machina that separates the resolution from all your actions up to that point, rending everything else you did basically pointless.

[Giggling Ghast]

Geth had NO desire to rebel when they gained self-awareness. Conflict only started as result of Quarian leadership shooting first. Geth even after being attacked still desired peace and tried to hide/placate the Quarians. When that was not tenable, Geth only fought until Quarians were driven off. They had no desire to destroy them.

It doesn't matter who shoots first. The point is that the created will destroy the creators.

And the heretic geth were more than willing to aid Sovereign in wiping out all space-faring organic life.


The idea that Synthetic life somehow inherently goes on "DESTROY ALL THE FLESHIES" rampages, is not supported in the game at all

The Catalyst's argument is not that the synthetics WANT to destroy the organics, but that peaceful co-existence is impossible.


Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The general lack of homicidal AIs is due to the ban on creating AIs because they keep turning homicidal. Your reasoning amounts to claiming the rock at your feet keeps away tigers because you don't see any tigers around here.

[Mr.Moron]

. Your argument still amounts to claiming the rock at your feet keeps away tigers because you don't see any tigers around here.


It's more like claiming if they wanted this to be a central element in the story - the only way it would justify causing it to shoehorn the conclusion like this, is that it's the writers responsibility to show us that.

They did not do that.

In terms of in-story evidence, Glow-Boy is really all we have to go on. That's thoroughly unsatisfying.

Literally all he says "Is the created always rebel against the creators" that ONE SENTENCE is all he gives us as evidence for his statement that this has to happen. The story overwhelmingly tells us otherwise before that point.

It's like putting a "Being soft on crime ruins america" moral at the end of the shawshank redemption.

[Zevox]

In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.
Hm, I don't agree. He is generic, but he's not really any more likeable than any other generic soldier character. I guess he jokes more than Kaiden or Jacob ever did, but that's about it. And as far as new characters in ME3 go, I certainly like Traynor and Cortez more (not sure about Diana Allers, she's had precious little to say).

Oh, and for anyone interested, I've now tried out all of the ultra-expensive weapons from the Spectre shop (saved before buying them, went straight to the shooting range), and none of them are worth purchasing. The Paladin is basically the Carnifex, the Black Widow is a weaker version of the Widow with more ammo, and the Wraith is a middle-of-the-road shotgun comparable to the Eviscerator. You get weapons that are near identical to each by finding them in missions or buying from regular shops anyway, so there's no reason to spend that much money on them. Unless you happen to have that much cash sitting around right at the start of the game somehow and don't want to wait to pick their equivalents up normally (the Widow in particular does take quite a while), but unless there's a huge cash bonus given in subsequent files like there was for resources in ME2, I don't think that'll happen without cheating.

Zevox

[Falgorn]

My statement was that "The Created always rebel against the creator, Sythetic Life always destroys Organic" is incorrect. Which it is. We don't see evidence for that. Glow-boys claim isn't "Organics & Sythetics can't be Bros" and I'd still think we don't really have evidence for that claim either, but since glow-boy didn't say that I don't really see any reason to argue for/against it.

Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The support just isn't there to claim the games provide you with any real evidence what glow-boy suggestions is even close to correct.

Heck even the gambling AI that blows itself up in ME1 only does so because it's afraid people are going to kill it.

If he was claiming "The Creator is always a massive **** that destroys the created for no reason. Organic life will always provoke Synethic life until they can only preserve themselves by fighting back" maybe, glow-boy would have a tiny bit of a point. However, that isn't what he says.

Even if he was 100% right. It's still a poorly-written Deus Ex Machina that separates the resolution from all your actions up to that point, rending everything else you did basically pointless.


The Geth Uprising is named such for a reason.
Even if they didn't start the war, they sure seemed like they had no massive qualms with wiping out their creators. It seemed to be a "kill or be killed" situation, from both sides.

Also, don't forget about the crazed AI on the moon. And, again, the alluded to fact that AI largely don't exist. Because, when they do, they murder stuff. There's, at most, one or two AI in the series that haven't nearly committed genocide.

[Mr.Moron]

My statement was that "The Created always rebel against the creator, Sythetic Life always destroys Organic" is incorrect. Which it is. We don't see evidence for that. Glow-boys claim isn't "Organics & Sythetics can't be Bros" and I'd still think we don't really have evidence for that claim either, but since glow-boy didn't say that I don't really see any reason to argue for/against it.

Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The support just isn't there to claim the games provide you with any real evidence what glow-boy suggestions is even close to correct.

Heck even the gambling AI that blows itself up in ME1 only does so because it's afraid people are going to kill it.

If he was claiming "The Creator is always a massive **** that destroys the created for no reason. Organic life will always provoke Synethic life until they can only preserve themselves by fighting back" maybe, glow-boy would have a tiny bit of a point. However, that isn't what he says.

Even if he was 100% right. It's still a poorly-written Deus Ex Machina that separates the resolution from all your actions up to that point, rending everything else you did basically pointless.


The Geth Uprising is named such for a reason.
Even if they didn't start the war, they sure seemed like they had no massive qualms with wiping out their creators. It seemed to be a "kill or be killed" situation, from both sides.

Also, don't forget about the crazed AI on the moon. And, again, the alluded to fact that AI largely don't exist. Because, when they do, they murder stuff. There's, at most, one or two AI in the series that haven't nearly committed genocide.




I'm going to concede all the Aguments about AI and glow-boys justification, because that's hardly the worst part of it. I'm not even going to touch it any more.

Even if glow-boy was 100% correct, the bigger problem is this:

It's a last minute Deus Ex Machina with very narrow choices, that ignore your previous decisions in a game that is very much focused on "Decisions Matter". It strips the story of any sense of agency by taking the results out of your hands and placing the resolution squarely in the hands of glow-boy and his SPAAAAAAAACE MAGIC!!

You could have replaced Shepard on the final platform with a random pyjack kicking one of the options and it would have made no difference in the outcome. Ultimately, you didn't matter at all.



EDIT


...Which would be fine in game with a consistently running theme about how you can't act against the inevitable. That things can't change and the world is ultimately beyond your influence.

Basically a story the exact opposite of Mass Effect.

[Avilan the Grey]

You could have replaced Shepard on the final platform with a random pyjack kicking one of the options and it would have made no difference in the outcome. Ultimately, you didn't matter at all.



And to me you are very very wrong. I felt the same about DAII as you feel about ME3, but that was because of the initial goal for the character. Hawke's main goal is to protect his family at all costs. That is the sole motivation for the character, and he or she fails utterly, no matter what you do. Shepard's goal is to defeat the Reapers. You do that. At an unrealistic low cost of life, too.

[Zevox]

Okay, quick question for those who have completed the game:
I've basically just been told by Hackett that the next mission I start begins the endgame. Looking at my war terminal, I'm still being told my "chances of success are even." I was hoping to get that up to something a bit more positive before going into the end, but I don't know if I'll be able to. I'm sitting on a military strength of 3568 (after halving due to me not playing multiplayer), and have scoured pretty much every system to the point where I'm almost certain there's nothing left for me to find but fuel. If so, the only way raise that number would be multiplayer.

So, my question is: do I have enough for the best ending yet (important: do not give me any details of said ending)? The bar on the bottom is fully green, but it has been for some time, back when my war terminal was still telling me my chances were "poor but measurable" or something to that effect, so I'm not sure how important it is.

Also, did I miss something with Liara? I have not unlocked a second bonus power from her, even though I have from everybody else (including the Prothean), and haven't had a proper conversation with her for some time (not since she asked to speak with me on the Citadel). Would've expected an opportunity to invite her up to my quarters as well, since I romanced her. I had such requests from Traynor, Allers, and Vega, after all.
Zevox

[blackjack217]

Hm, I don't agree. He is generic, but he's not really any more likeable than any other generic soldier character. I guess he jokes more than Kaiden or Jacob ever did, but that's about it. And as far as new characters in ME3 go, I certainly like Traynor and Cortez more (not sure about Diana Allers, she's had precious little to say).

Oh, and for anyone interested, I've now tried out all of the ultra-expensive weapons from the Spectre shop (saved before buying them, went straight to the shooting range), and none of them are worth purchasing. The Paladin is basically the Carnifex, the Black Widow is a weaker version of the Widow with more ammo, and the Wraith is a middle-of-the-road shotgun comparable to the Eviscerator. You get weapons that are near identical to each by finding them in missions or buying from regular shops anyway, so there's no reason to spend that much money on them. Unless you happen to have that much cash sitting around right at the start of the game somehow and don't want to wait to pick their equivalents up normally (the Widow in particular does take quite a while), but unless there's a huge cash bonus given in subsequent files like there was for resources in ME2, I don't think that'll happen without cheating.

Zevox

Actually the main problem with the black widow is weight

[Falgorn]

At this point, it's a matter of opinion.
I think that the options presented were...suitable, I guess. I think that it tied up most of the loose ends from the previous games (see my post about the krogan for an example).
Here, I do agree with you, to a point. Perhaps future DLC will shed some light on the kid's existence and all that, but...yeah. It was quickly-introduced and rushed. Also, why that kid? Why couldn't it be someone that actually matters that died? Maybe Jenkins from ME1, that could be cool. Or Ashley/Kaidan, depending on who died. I dunno, the kid didn't matter to me; the whole scene on earth didn't really have an emotional impact on me.

To Zevox: I'm not ENTIRELY sure, but I think best ending can only be reached by 5000 points. Not entirely sure, though.

[Derthric]

My statement was that "The Created always rebel against the creator, Sythetic Life always destroys Organic" is incorrect. Which it is. We don't see evidence for that. Glow-boys claim isn't "Organics & Sythetics can't be Bros" and I'd still think we don't really have evidence for that claim either, but since glow-boy didn't say that I don't really see any reason to argue for/against it.

Beyond EDI and the Geth you run into, what? One glitched-out AI on a Space Station in ME2 and a Rogue Gambling program in ME1.

The support just isn't there to claim the games provide you with any real evidence what glow-boy suggestions is even close to correct.

Heck even the gambling AI that blows itself up in ME1 only does so because it's afraid people are going to kill it.

If he was claiming "The Creator is always a massive **** that destroys the created for no reason. Organic life will always provoke Synethic life until they can only preserve themselves by fighting back" maybe, glow-boy would have a tiny bit of a point. However, that isn't what he says.

Even if he was 100% right. It's still a poorly-written Deus Ex Machina that separates the resolution from all your actions up to that point, rending everything else you did basically pointless.


The Geth Uprising is named such for a reason.
Even if they didn't start the war, they sure seemed like they had no massive qualms with wiping out their creators. It seemed to be a "kill or be killed" situation, from both sides.

Also, don't forget about the crazed AI on the moon. And, again, the alluded to fact that AI largely don't exist. Because, when they do, they murder stuff. There's, at most, one or two AI in the series that haven't nearly committed genocide.


Counterpoints HO!
We see in our time in the geth server that the geth did have qualms about wiping out the quarians. In fact they let them go for the express purpose that they were afraid of wiping them out. Legion states in the second game that they will be content with a live and let live policy towards organics. While they would actually prefer to be away from them if possible, they recognize the right to self determination.

And that AI on Luna is EDI, its stated on the Illusive Man's base they captured it and added to it making EDI. Which was a real nice touch.


And to me you are very very wrong. I felt the same about DAII as you feel about ME3, but that was because of the initial goal for the character. Hawke's main goal is to protect his family at all costs. That is the sole motivation for the character, and he or she fails utterly, no matter what you do. Shepard's goal is to defeat the Reapers. You do that. At an unrealistic low cost of life, too.

My problem is that it ends one predestination ending, reapers winning again, with another one. The ending or perpetuating of Organic vs Synthetic, which until now has been a side element relegated to the codex and the quarian storylines.

Also the implications of billions upon billions dead, is unrealistically low? The codex has 2 million people per day processed on earth alone, that's just processed not killed in action or through other means. Beckenstein is wiped out according to diana allers, thats over million there and you can assume this occurs to other worlds. Thessia, Palivan is being decimated, the entire citadel population, Bailey, the council, all the refugees, ash's family, the girl waiting for her parents, all dead. Mordin, Thane, and Legion are dead, Tali, Samara and Miranda can go too depending on your actions.

[Mr.Moron]

And to me you are very very wrong. I felt the same about DAII as you feel about ME3, but that was because of the initial goal for the character. Hawke's main goal is to protect his family at all costs. That is the sole motivation for the character, and he or she fails utterly, no matter what you do. Shepard's goal is to defeat the Reapers. You do that. At an unrealistic low cost of life, too.


Again, how does Shepard defeat the reapers? How, in the end would the result of glow-boy's SPAAAAAAAACE MAGIC been different, if say.. that Krogan who wanted the fish in ME2 had been on that platform?

[NEO|Phyte]

To Zevox: I'm not ENTIRELY sure, but I think best ending can only be reached by 5000 points. Not entirely sure, though.

I am not sure of the exact details on how the endings work, but as I understand it, the 5000+ points thing is only for a short extra bit during the endings, but is not required for the best ending.

[Avilan the Grey]

Again, how does Shepard defeat the reapers? How, in the end would the result of glow-boy's SPAAAAAAAACE MAGIC been different, if say.. that Krogan who wanted the fish in ME2 had been on that platform?


I have not played the game yet, but I think this argument is not valid. It is because you have done what you have done for 3 games that makes that ending possible, at all.



To Zevox: [SPOILER]I'm not ENTIRELY sure, but I think best ending can only be reached by 5000 points. Not entirely sure, though.

According to official sources, there are twice as many points in the game than what you need for the best ending without doing any multiplayer at all.

[Orzel]

Is this the right place to rage because I have 2 From Ashes PS3 DLC now?

James is growing on me. Reminds me of a guy I knew. He was generic as heck on the surface too.

[Giggling Ghast]

Coupled with your Effective Military Strength, only certain endings are available depending on certain choices.

For instance, if your EMS is low and you destroyed the Collector base, Catalyst will only give you the choice of destroying the Reapers. Shepard will not survive.

[Derthric]

I have not played the game yet, but I think this argument is not valid. It is because you have done what you have done for 3 games that makes that ending possible, at all.




According to official sources, there are twice as many points in the game than what you need for the best ending without doing any multiplayer at all.

Herein lies another sticking point, the differences between the endings are mostly color schemes, who is standing next to joker, and one 5 second clip of a stranded in ruble Shepard taking a deep breath(how the eff did he survive the citadel and the mass relay exploding AND being spaced AGAIN?)

One that note I want to add something positive, a list of my favorite moments

Best buddy moment
Garrus and Shep shooting bottles on the top of the presidium, syblings-in-arms to the end
Most bittersweet
........Model of a Scientist Salarian....*Boom*
Made me salute the damn screen
Most soulcrushing
Liara's breakdown after the fall of Thessia, everything seems bleak when the she's so close to giving up
Most peculiar
Kelly Chambers not added to the memorial wall after Cerberus kacked her in the coup
Cutest Moment
Not romancing Tali or Garrus you find them embracing in the main battery, having found happiness with each other
Most rewarding, to me at least
Ash grabbing Shep's arm and stating "I don't want you to go". Made being Loyal through ME2 worth it for me
Best S.I.P. (shepard induced death0
Kai Leng, "That was for Thane" indeed
other things I liked but dont know a category for
Hackett's Heroic march onto the Normandy, just sent chills

Anderson's death seated next to me watching the arms open. I am proud of you too Sir.

Wrex inspiring his men before battle on Earth.


And finally most heartwarming
the look on the Krogan's faces as the cure rained down on them. Separated from Mordin's end because both are so powerful

And too many gut punches to list, except one
decking Han'Gerrel for what he pulled over Rannoch

[Zevox]

So, does nobody have a definite answer to my question then? Because if not...
I'm going to have to assume, for the time being, that the 5k number is accurate. Which would force me to play the multiplayer solo to bring up my Galactic Readiness rating, probably to seventy-some percent. And I really, really do not want to do that.
Zevox

[nhbdy]

Enemies are getting tougher, decided to switch off of the particle rifle to do more damage, the N7 Crusader seems rather effective, and it is a shotgun you can snipe with, what's not to love? However it's ammo supply is rather limited and tends to stretch thin in any longer firefight, does anyone have any recommendations for vanguard weaponry? (I have collector's edition and pre-order (not gamestop) bonuses)

[NEO|Phyte]

So, does nobody have a definite answer to my question then? Because if not...
I'm going to have to assume, for the time being, that the 5k number is accurate. Which would force me to play the multiplayer solo to bring up my Galactic Readiness rating, probably to seventy-some percent. And I really, really do not want to do that.
Zevox
Having consulted a more knowledgable forum, it seems that the goal number for the thing that needs the most points is 5k effective assets, or 4k if you take the right conversation options during the ending. That said, said thing is a 5 second extra clip at the end of one of the ending choices, and the actual endings are unlocked long before that.

[Zevox]

Enemies are getting tougher, decided to switch off of the particle rifle to do more damage, the N7 Crusader seems rather effective, and it is a shotgun you can snipe with, what's not to love? However it's ammo supply is rather limited and tends to stretch thin in any longer firefight, does anyone have any recommendations for vanguard weaponry? (I have collector's edition and pre-order (not gamestop) bonuses)
I liked what I saw of the Spike Launcher shotgun. Seemed to be both powerful and accurate. Weight might be a problem though.

Can't really give much advice though, since I haven't played my Vanguard yet. Don't know how much weight they can handle before charge's cooldown gets too long, how much they can depend on just a shotgun, whether any enemies just cannot be charged safely, etc.

Zevox

[nhbdy]

I liked what I saw of the Spike Launcher shotgun. Seemed to be both powerful and accurate. Weight might be a problem though.

Can't really give much advice though, since I haven't played my Vanguard yet. Don't know how much weight they can handle before charge's cooldown gets too long, how much they can depend on just a shotgun, whether any enemies just cannot be charged safely, etc.

Zevox

Well the spike thrower is lighter than the crusader and packs more punch (not by a ton but it is notable) it is less accurate and has a little less capacity, which was my problem with the crusader, it tended to run out of ammo... but the guns are similar in design and purpose. As for charging, it really depends on the enemies and power growths, I can usually charge a position and grab cover and only lose barriers, unless I have a heavy enemy on me as I charge, obviously charging brutes and banshees is bad, brutes are doable banshees are a last resort only. If the enemy is all grouped up and/or cut off from supporting fire, a nova does a great job at cleanup (I have it upgraded to punch through armor shields and barriers) but it takes up my barrier to use. If this helps at all I'm still open to any advice you could offer, my crusader has been my bread and butter, I switch to my hornet when the ammo runs dry though, I was just hoping to gather other opinions and hopefully find a better setup.

[C-Lam]

Is this the right place to rage because I have 2 From Ashes PS3 DLC now?

James is growing on me. Reminds me of a guy I knew. He was generic as heck on the surface too.

Wait, how did you get two copies?

Also, I picked up the game yesterday, but couldn't play it until today because of school. Played for 3 hours and so far I am enjoying it a lot! Didn't play the demo, (to avoid as much spoiler as possible, and have also not clicked a single spoiler fan in the threads so far) so I am kinda excited to try out the multiplayer, since everyone seems to say it's good.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that if anyone on the PS3 want to team up for multiplayer, just send me a friendrequest on PSN, my username is Crystal_1995. My friend that I usually play multiplayer with has it on Xbox, and I want to play with people I know (sort of know in this case) more then totally random players.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Why are the mass relays exploding in the ending when you use control paragon ending?

First off, Control is the RENEGADE ending, because the Illusive Man was the supporter of it. The Paragon ending is Destruction, because it was supported by Anderson. They switch the colors for some reason.

And the answer to your question is because the Crucible/Citadel/whatever, releases a buttload of pent-up energy that has to go SOMEWHERE, and since you don't wanna blow up Earth, it shoots it to the mass relay, which in turn shoots it to other relays so the energy simply disperses, destroying the relays in the process.

[Zevox]

Having consulted a more knowledgable forum, it seems that the goal number for the thing that needs the most points is 5k effective assets, or 4k if you take the right conversation options during the ending. That said, said thing is a 5 second extra clip at the end of one of the ending choices, and the actual endings are unlocked long before that.
...okay then, that leaves me in something of a quandary. This is my original character, and I want to do nothing less than the best with her. The question being whether this extra stuff is worth the effort. The problem being that I will not look that up because I do not want to be spoiled about the ending in the slightest.

So, I guess I have to make up my mind on this one on my own. Hm.
Well, what would everyone say is the easiest class to solo multiplayer mode with? I saw some during the demo saying it was Infiltrator, but I'd have thought it would be Vanguard given they get their shields restored by charge. I was playing a Vanguard in it before though, and even at level 16 never managed to finish a mission fully.

Zevox

[nhbdy]

Good news zevox, according to this page
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Powers_%28Mass_Effect_3%29#Bonus_Powers
it is possible for shepard to get two bonus power options out of each squadmate, and stasis is on that list.

[Zevox]

Good news zevox, according to this page
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Powers_%28Mass_Effect_3%29#Bonus_Powers
it is possible for shepard to get two bonus power options out of each squadmate, and stasis is on that list.
I kind of figured. I still don't have it though, and supposedly I'm right before the endgame now, so I'm worried that I missed something with Liara. Doubly so since I romanced her, and thus she'd be the last character I would want to miss something with.

Zevox

[NEO|Phyte]

...okay then, that leaves me in something of a quandary. This is my original character, and I want to do nothing less than the best with her. The question being whether this extra stuff is worth the effort. The problem being that I will not look that up because I do not want to be spoiled about the ending in the slightest.

So, I guess I have to make up my mind on this one on my own. Hm.

It is indeed a tricky problem you face, you may not even end up picking the ending where the 5/4k points would matter, and there's no real way to indicate which that is without spoiling it.

[Triscuitable]

So if Shepard didn't romance Garrus or Tali in ME2, in ME3,
They're in love! And making out!

[Leliel]

Probably non-spoilerly, but I'll spoiler it anyways.
So, having beaten Mass Effect 3, I feel like I'm one of the few people who is satisfied with the ending. I mean, is it standard BSN/YouTube butthurt to this kind of thing? I just don't see where all of the hate is from.

BROTHER!

And I think it's because many people are like that damned test audience that ruined I Am Legend's ending-they're so used to hunky-dory, shallow-as-a-birdbath happy endings they get upset when shoved into bittersweet ones that force them to think.

Could've used a better epilogue though.

[Leliel]

First off, Control is the RENEGADE ending, because the Illusive Man was the supporter of it. The Paragon ending is Destruction, because it was supported by Anderson. They switch the colors for some reason.

No, it's the Paragon ending.

The Control ending allows all synthetic life, such as EDI and the Geth, to live. Anderson would have probably supported it, had he known it was (a) possible, and (b) come with a much lesser downside.

[Triscuitable]

Could've used a better epilogue though.

Second.


No, it's the Paragon ending.

The Control ending allows all synthetic life, such as EDI and the Geth, to live. Anderson would have probably supported it, had he known it was (a) possible, and (b) come with a much lesser downside.

Your reasoning makes much more sense. I was thinking that I would culiminate my Paragade playthrough with a bit of synthesizing, though.

[nhbdy]

Regarding quarian segment EDIT (hard target achievement) I just killed the reaper and finished the conversation afterwards on my renagon shep (ruthless but moral) and I told legion to upload the code, assuming the quarians would halt the attack... Tali calls, the quarians don't listen, I then stopped legion. He turned on me Tali stabs him I get renegade interrupt, I shoot legion, second pops up I ignore it. legion on his knees asks "does... this... unit..." Tali says "Yes... yes it does" and legion crumples to the ground...

That was a fantastic scene that has actually made me cold all over, anyone else want to discuss this scene?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

No, it's the Paragon ending.

The Control ending allows all synthetic life, such as EDI and the Geth, to live. Anderson would have probably supported it, had he known it was (a) possible, and (b) come with a much lesser downside.
Then why is it only an option at lower levels of Galactic Readiness if you preserved the Collector Base? By which I mean it's an easier ending to get if you imported a save where the Collector Base was saved as well, indicating that it's less about the morality of who lives and who dies and more the fact that it's about who endorses it.

[Derthric]

Regarding quarian segment EDIT (hard target achievement) I just killed the reaper and finished the conversation afterwards on my renagon shep (ruthless but moral) and I told legion to upload the code, assuming the quarians would halt the attack... Tali calls, the quarians don't listen, I then stopped legion. He turned on me Tali stabs him I get renegade interrupt, I shoot legion, second pops up I ignore it. legion on his knees asks "does... this... unit..." Tali says "Yes... yes it does" and legion crumples to the ground...

That was a fantastic scene that has actually made me cold all over, anyone else want to discuss this scene?

Quarian comments
My ending was different, I was able to get the fleet to call off the attack, if you have a high enough reputation and admirals Korris and Raan back you up and end the attack. Then legion can't upload the code and has to give himself up to upload the code to the rest of the geth. He refered to himself as I and not we and Tali says "the answer is yes" to which he responds "Keelah se'lai". He dies, the code goes up the geth and quarians hug it out. All around amazing.

Video of the result I got below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRa6WH90xVc

[nhbdy]

Quarian comments
My ending was different, I was able to get the fleet to call off the attack, if you have a high enough reputation and admirals Korris and Raan back you up and end the attack. Then legion can't upload the code and has to give himself up to upload the code to the rest of the geth. He refered to himself as I and not we and Tali says "the answer is yes" to which he responds "Keelah se'lai". He dies, the code goes up the geth and quarians hug it out. All around amazing.

Video of the result I got below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRa6WH90xVc

odd I don't remember seeing the charm/intimidate options, and my rep bar is full... (imported from ME1&2) I was caught up in the moment but I thought I would've caught something like that, could my previous choices have limited me?

[MCerberus]

BROTHER!

And I think it's because many people are like that damned test audience that ruined I Am Legend's ending-they're so used to hunky-dory, shallow-as-a-birdbath happy endings they get upset when shoved into bittersweet ones that force them to think.

Could've used a better epilogue though.

ending
The problem being the current ending is a lot like Contact, only if the ending of Contact went against the entire message previous in the work. Note that a lot of people hated that ending ANYWAY.

Free will and never accepting your fate? Nope. AI forces you to pick one of three choices based on an argument that you have logically seen disproven.

Actions have consequences? Nope, no matter what you do galactic civilization regresses and all your alien buddies on Hammer get wiped out instantly. Oh, and the now isolated planets don't know if they're going to die or not. But hey, getting reaper'd may have been the better option for the Turian infantry that would otherwise starve to death on Earth.

Sad endings may have happened, and they could have been good, but the damn citadel-kid was just dumb.

</rant>

[NEO|Phyte]

odd I don't remember seeing the charm/intimidate options, and my rep bar is full... (imported from ME1&2) I was caught up in the moment but I thought I would've caught something like that, could my previous choices have limited me?

As I understand it, to get the option to get the two to stop fighting, you need to get an internal counter up to 5, based on the stuff that happens in ME2 and then ME3.

[Sholos]

So I just found out something that bugs me. Spoilers for the Kasumi-given mission:
So you know how at the end of it, you have to choose between saving the salarian or saving the hanar homeworld? Apparently if you have Kasumi you don't have to choose and get both. This bugs me because I don't like having to pay for content just to get benefits in the main game (also bugs me because I want to be able to save both, but can't unless I'm willing to dish out money). :smallmad:

[nhbdy]

As I understand it, to get the option to get the two to stop fighting, you need to get an internal counter up to 5, based on the stuff that happens in ME2 and then ME3.

That makes sense and explains why I do not get the option to call em off. I rushed my playthrough of 2 to get ready for 3, skipped legion's loyalty mission, so I can see why this would occur. Glad I got to see it though as other playthoughs will not be rushed and I'd've possibly never seen that rough, yet emotional scene, or be forced to make the choice (EDI has some dialogue about it too, and you can guess her reaction)

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Question: Where do I enter the codes or whatever to get my Chakram Launcher and Reckoner Knight Armor?

[Leliel]

ending
The problem being the current ending is a lot like Contact, only if the ending of Contact went against the entire message previous in the work. Note that a lot of people hated that ending ANYWAY.

Free will and never accepting your fate? Nope. AI forces you to pick one of three choices based on an argument that you have logically seen disproven.

Actions have consequences? Nope, no matter what you do galactic civilization regresses and all your alien buddies on Hammer get wiped out instantly. Oh, and the now isolated planets don't know if they're going to die or not. But hey, getting reaper'd may have been the better option for the Turian infantry that would otherwise starve to death on Earth.

Sad endings may have happened, and they could have been good, but the damn citadel-kid was just dumb.

</rant>

That's...not the message at all.

By getting there, you've destroyed the Reaper cycle of extinction, and ultimately proved the Catalyst wrong if EDI's still about, much less the Geth.

You've broken the fate of the galaxy to continually die for one AI's pessimistic philosophy, and what's more, you've actually caused him to change his mind. True, you sacrificed the Mass Relays, but you got true freedom of history in return. And...really, don't you think the isolated planets would gradually figure it out? And discover FTL on their own?

Ultimately, the message is that victory may be painful, but it was a short-term loss, long-term utter victory for all life. It's also about never giving into despair, like the Catalyst did a long time ago, leading to the Reapers' creation.

Of course, I also like the fact it was similar to a more optimistic version of Puella Magi Madoka Magica's ending-which, if you've seen the series end-to-end, is actually a pretty high bar to clear.

[Yana]

My question concerning the ending is this:

How do I know if Shepard survived? I had 100% of the War Effort going into the final run.

Alternatively, did anyone else notice that Buzz Aldrin did some vocal work in this?

[Triscuitable]

My question concerning the ending is this:

How do I know if Shepard survived? I had 100% of the War Effort going into the final run.

Well, two of them tell you (it's a no), and one of them implies, but it's left ambiguous.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

And...really, don't you think the isolated planets would gradually figure it out? And discover FTL on their own?

Actually, non-relay related FTL travel already exists. It's how you get from star system to star system in a cluster in the game. I think somewhere it says that a standard ship can make 12 lightyears in a day. Assuming there are still some ships left over, travel is still possible, it's just a lot slower, and odds are you won't be able to travel from the Solar System to the Hawking Eta cluster anymore, but closer stuff is still accessible. The galactic community just fragments into clusters of systems that are easily reachable by FTL travel, rather than simply being stuck on single planets. From there it's possible they'll figure out how to develop relays of their own. It'll take a butt-load of time, but things will recover. :smallsmile:

[Triscuitable]

Actually, non-relay related FTL travel already exists. It's how you get from star system to star system in a cluster in the game. I think somewhere it says that a standard ship can make 12 lightyears in a day. Assuming there are still some ships left over, travel is still possible, it's just a lot slower, and odds are you won't be able to travel from the Solar System to the Hawking Eta cluster anymore, but closer stuff is still accessible. The galactic community just fragments into clusters of systems that are easily reachable by FTL travel, rather than simply being stuck on single planets. From there it's possible they'll figure out how to develop relays of their own. It'll take a butt-load of time, but things will recover. :smallsmile:

The mass effect powers FTL, but I wonder if, in extreme cases, it could be used to give a totally radical :smallcool: boost to a ship in FTL. Maybe a mass effect overdrive? That sounds awesome.

[Corvus]

So I unlocked the Drell Adept in MP - and it is fun.

Exceedingly fragile but hits like a truck in melee and has three very useful powers - reave, pull and grenades. Pull then reave sets off biotech explosions (and you can make both of them aoe) and reave then grenades also sets it off for armoured foes. And both powers recharge insanely fast.

[Derthric]

The mass effect powers FTL, but I wonder if, in extreme cases, it could be used to give a totally radical :smallcool: boost to a ship in FTL. Maybe a mass effect overdrive? That sounds awesome.

Thoughts on the post-ending and FTL
We know the relays go dead, we don't know if all Mass Effect fields are wiped out. This represents another flaw with the ends, its just so muddled. Some are assuming all Mass Effect is cancelled, its not wrong we just don't know. The downer endings, the lack of tangible impact of your choices, and vague cloud of "tell me of the Shepard again" leave a gaping hole our imaginations fill. Given how dire things are at the end, hope can really only be re-established if we know it is. This is part of why some people take offense to the endings, they feel like they occur in a thematic and gameplay vacuum disconnected to the rest of the series.

As far as regular FTL goes, its possible and is decently speedy compared to other settings, however its a fuel hog. To cut across a cluster takes at least half a frigates fuel and the SR-2 is supposed to be fairly cutting edge. I highly doubt the reapers left much HE3 production going or fuel depots up making travel all the more difficult. Also you have to discharge your Eezo drive cores after a certain amount of time, in appropriate magnetic environments.

All of this is a bit moot since we see the relays explode, last time that happened = death for a whole system. Don't think those turians have to worry about eating anymore. Of course that an assumption since we don't know what actually happens

[Calemyr]

Amalur items: You don't need to put the codes in anywhere. Simply log into your EA account when playing the Amalur demo. The armor unlocks immediately, while the rifle unlocks only after you've finished the demo (including the 45 minute free-play). Like most perk items, they're really not all that grand, but they aren't bad - the chakram launcher is quite powerful, though you need to charge it to get the best use from it.

Complaining about Kasumi is pretty stupid, frankly. A huge amount of content in ME2 and ME3 are only available if you played the previous game, which means that you're already forced to pay for outside software for a happier ending. I'm a little annoyed, though - for me, the Kasumi quest got to the final terminal and then I couldn't progress it any further.

By the way, if anyone's interested: Completing the Long Service Medallion achievement (2 ME3 wins or 1 with an import) doesn't seem to give you bonus XP this time, but it gives you double upgrades instead and increases your weapon upgrade cap to 10. A level 10 Mantis is pretty sweet. You're still limited to level 5 on the upgrades, of course. Ultralight SMG Materials already gets up to a 90% reduction in weight, any more and it'd float.

Finally, won the game myself and can speak from experience now on the ending:
First off, I can see why people are pissed off. It's like Fallout 3 all over again. Yes, it's all very moving and such to see the hero make the ultimate sacrifice to save the day, but when spend hundreds of hours building your hero it really is a kick in the quad to have no way at all to win a "happy" ending.

That said, people are whiners. The only reason Kid Glow has any options to offer is because Shep was able to not only complete the Crucible, but get it there, get it past the Reapers, and install it. That proved to the Kid that the old strategy of letting the Reapers out to play was no longer sufficient - galactic generations had cooperated to construct the plans, meaning it would happen again in the fullness of time. He had to change tactics because Shep is such a badass, and the options that are now open are a direct result of his/her leadership. The Sushi-loving Krogan and the retarded Pyjak would have been left to die at the console just like the others who had made it that far - Kid Glow only saved Shep because he had earned it. He'd proven himself and his generation so bloody awesome that even the Reapers couldn't stop him and Kid Glow was forced to take note.

What I suspect is that there is/should be an alternative path at the end (starting around Thessia) where constant devastation of Cerberus forces and a relentless persuasion offensive by Shep actually convince TIM something's wrong before he screws the pooch. Without Cerberus flicking off all of humanity with huge foam middle fingers, the ending would have been a downright upbeat one - and if Cerberus was willing to stop mooning its own race and get its ass on the front lines, maybe things could have gone better than that.

Finally I think the designers and the players had different goals in mind. Players are treating this like a game - probably because it is one. The developers seem to have to be the climax of the story. I know, duh, of course it is. That's not what I mean, I mean they made the entire GAME to be the epic payoff for the previous game, a constant parade of awesomeness as every decision Shep ever made is heaped on the scales and the galaxy's fate is decided. Decided to have pizza instead of a burger for dinner last Tuesday? Tremble in fear, little Reapers, because the pizza guy cometh. Oh, yes, my son, the pizza guy freaking delivers! It's not all condensed into the last 30 minutes of the game the way we expected it to be, which makes those last 30 minutes feel a fair bit flatter than we had dreamed it to be, because the epic goodness had already been spread out across the whole game.

Also, let's be honest. Shep's life is over, now. You don't come back from 3 years of constant torture, death, and dismissal, from losing a great many beloved friends, and limping through rivers of carnage on the way to a gunshot you never wanted to hear. He would never be free. Killing him is a freaking mercy compared to what his life afterwards would be. On the plus side, my Shep and Tali ended up having kids after all: an entire galaxy of cyborg children!

Tl;dr version: Good game, shame about the ending. The infiltrator's grave won't even have time to cool before my Vanguard game kicks into gear.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Alright, I got a question that may be difficult to answer and then questions that aren't.

Main-story length questions
First, how many 'acts' are there to the game? Or rather, how many Priority theaters are there to beat? I already did Tuchunka, Citadel (Or rather certain folks ON the Citadel), Rannoch, and Thessia. Now I'm feeling the drive to muscle on through to the end to see what happens personally, but I want to ensure I get the right ending for this Shepard. Now I gotta go back to Sanctuary and on my War Map, it still says my chances are poor but possible...despite the bar being almost entirely filled. Am I going to get many more chances to improve my war assets? How many more main story locations do I have to go through? What other ways can I raise my war asset score (multiplayer isn't an option since I don't have a Gold account, meaning I can't play multiplayer on my own profile)?

Un-main-plot related questions...

How do you get a freakin' conversation out of Allers? Most I've gotten is two interviews.

Ditto for above, but for Liara! Ever since she wanted to meet on the Citadel and talk about growing up with Benezia, she's been surprisingly tight-lipped despite my efforts to re-kindle my romance with her!

Where do I find the Cerberus codes for the C-Sec officer on the Citadel? It's the only other side-quest I can do right now.

Is it possible to raise a weapon above level 5 in single-player?

How many people love cluster grenades for the sheer amount of carnage they can cause?

Who thinks Bioware went the right route (though perhaps not far enough!) with turning a lot of former party members into cameo missions? I think it works, though it'd be better if there was more to those side missions (and they were focused on more deserving individuals. Zaeed and Kasumi barely get a side mission but I've had two secret meetings with three secret meetings with the Cerberus bi...Miranda, and I still haven't done a mission with her!)

EDIT:
Thessia Spoilers(?):
Okay, after an awesome introduction to Kai Leng, I finally got a chance to actually fight him and...I'm disappointed. He's essentially a phantom that lacks the ability to get in close and trades in the phantom's rapid-fire (relatively anyway) pulse blasts that can kill a person quite easily for...a sword-slash attack that strips away shields. That have plenty of time to regenerate by the time he uses it again. Oh, and with three people focusing fire on him, his shields don't stand a chance and I'm fairly certain I could have killed him if the gunship hadn't attacked the building I was in.

...Yet he has the audacity to email me after the fact saying I wasn't as weak as he expected? Did I miss something? Is Kai Leng a tougher/more interesting boss-battle in later fights or is he just a (to me) weaker phantom that can talk? I thought, after the Vanguard Specter awesomeness and the Shadow Broker, that Bioware had finally figured out how to combine cool boss-battles into Mass Effect, please tell me they didn't drop the ball with Kai Leng after his awesome introduction!

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Amalur items: You don't need to put the codes in anywhere. Simply log into your EA account when playing the Amalur demo. The armor unlocks immediately, while the rifle unlocks only after you've finished the demo (including the 45 minute free-play). Like most perk items, they're really not all that grand, but they aren't bad - the chakram launcher is quite powerful, though you need to charge it to get the best use from it.
I know that, I played the Demo before Mass Effect 3 was released. Does this mean I have to play the Demo AGAIN so it installs properly, or am I SOOL because I did the two in the wrong order?


Thessia Spoilers(?):
Okay, after an awesome introduction to Kai Leng, I finally got a chance to actually fight him and...I'm disappointed. He's essentially a phantom that lacks the ability to get in close and trades in the phantom's rapid-fire (relatively anyway) pulse blasts that can kill a person quite easily for...a sword-slash attack that strips away shields. That have plenty of time to regenerate by the time he uses it again. Oh, and with three people focusing fire on him, his shields don't stand a chance and I'm fairly certain I could have killed him if the gunship hadn't attacked the building I was in.

...Yet he has the audacity to email me after the fact saying I wasn't as weak as he expected? Did I miss something? Is Kai Leng a tougher/more interesting boss-battle in later fights or is he just a (to me) weaker phantom that can talk? I thought, after the Vanguard Specter awesomeness and the Shadow Broker, that Bioware had finally figured out how to combine cool boss-battles into Mass Effect, please tell me they didn't drop the ball with Kai Leng after his awesome introduction!
I think the whole point with Kai Leng isn't to necessarily be impressed with him. He's good, yes, but THANE can match him blow for blow despite being in the final stages of Kepral's and being out of practice since after the Collector Base mission, and in the final battle with him at Cerberus' base, Shepard trash talks about how in every fight with Kai Leng, Kai Leng has run away, something that really gets under the assassin's skin. So, yes, battle-wise he's not all that impressive TO YOU, but that's mainly because you're the living god/goddess among mortals Commander Shepard, and Kai Leng is just a cyberpunk with a sword used to killing ordinary people.

[Triscuitable]

@Calemyr: Can we please not use the word "retarded"? I take extreme offense to the word. My reasons are personal.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Another question, one I forgot from before, has anyone else noticed any 'time-sensitive' missions like the one on Tuchunka? I figure the geth fighter mission on Rannoch is one as well, but I'm curious if people have discovered any others. Apparently...

Jack Spoilers
Apparently if you take your sweet time (or maybe if Jack wasn't loyal by the end of ME 2, one of the two...or both!) saving Grissom Academy, Jack will actually be captured by Cerberus and 'repurposed' to fight for them. As in, you have to fight (and kill?) Jack in the final Cerberus mission which is...that'd be devastating for my Shepard and I couldn't bring myself to test this fact to see if it was true or just a rumor.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

What are these "time-sensitive missions" of which you speak and how may I be ready for them?

[Xondoure]

Vanguard weapons: Eviscerator is excellent. I've barely used it yet but the spectre shotgun looks even better (even not upgraded it blows the eviscerator away everywhere other than clip size.)

Other tips would be to always have Liara in the party and max out pure biotic fast to get faster recharge time on charge, and equip at least one armor piece to give you a further bonus. After that, I've focused on as much bonus shields as possible both to increase the power of nova and keep the part of my defenses that regenerate strong. Another possibility I've been toying with would be to combine the low weight shotgun with a low weight pistol and equip both the melee damage mods for fun and profit. That shotgun is mostly worthless, so it would probably be better to stick with the phalanx equipped. Right combination and you still have 200% recharge time.

Also Banshees are annoying me less now. Apparently I needed time to cool off before fighting them. I still think they shouldn't get a chance to just kill me clean though.

Also any chance one of the multiplayer rare drops is a respec chance? What I'd give to make a few different choices...

[Zevox]

@ Callos_DeTerran: Please spoiler that first paragraph, since you're discussing parts of the story.


First, how many 'acts' are there to the game?
Broadly, I'd say it's divided into three: the Turians/Salarians/Krogan section, the Quarian/Geth section, and the Asari/Cerberus section. Plus the opening on Earth and Mars, if it counts.


Now I gotta go back to Sanctuary and on my War Map, it still says my chances are poor but possible...despite the bar being almost entirely filled. Am I going to get many more chances to improve my war assets?
As far as major story points, I'm pretty sure you don't. Further improvements to your military forces will have to come from side-quests and scanning planets.


How do you get a freakin' conversation out of Allers? Most I've gotten is two interviews.
Seems as though that's it with her. Other than that you can walk in on her recording reports or talking with other crew members (usually Traynor via intercom), and that's it. She doesn't do much chatting.


Ditto for above, but for Liara! Ever since she wanted to meet on the Citadel and talk about growing up with Benezia, she's been surprisingly tight-lipped despite my efforts to re-kindle my romance with her!
Hate to tell you, but that meeting on the Citadel was your chance to re-kindle your romance with her. I did it there. And yeah, she hasn't had anything to say to me since (though she had a scene with the DLC companion after Thessia). As I mentioned before, that one is worrying me, particularly since I haven't gotten her second bonus power, Stasis, yet.


Where do I find the Cerberus codes for the C-Sec officer on the Citadel? It's the only other side-quest I can do right now.
If you accidentally missed it in a mission you've already done, you can buy it from the Spectre shop. If not, it's in a mission you haven't done yet.

How many people love cluster grenades for the sheer amount of carnage they can cause?
Not me. I've honestly found it impossible to aim grenades at all - I never hit anybody with them when I throw them, so I've just stopped using them.

Singularity/Warp bombs work amazingly anyway, so it's not like I need them.


Who thinks Bioware went the right route (though perhaps not far enough!) with turning a lot of former party members into cameo missions? I think it works, though it'd be better if there was more to those side missions (and they were focused on more deserving individuals. Zaeed and Kasumi barely get a side mission but I've had two secret meetings with three secret meetings with the Cerberus bi...Miranda, and I still haven't done a mission with her!)
To a degree, maybe. Some work well that way, such as Kasumi and Grunt. I still miss having most of them as actual squad mates though, and would prefer many of ME2's to Vega, Tali, or even Liara in a couple cases. Would've preferred a slightly larger overall cast of squadmates too.

Zevox

[Derthric]

Hate to tell you, but that meeting on the Citadel was your chance to re-kindle your romance with her. I did it there. And yeah, she hasn't had anything to say to me since (though she had a scene with the DLC companion after Thessia). As I mentioned before, that one is worrying me, particularly since I haven't gotten her second bonus power, Stasis, yet.


After Thessia Tali is standing by the Normandy Memorial wall(still sans Kelly Chambers name *shakes fist*) and is talking to Garrus over the intercom about someone should talk to Liara. You can say you will and go in and speak with her. I think tha'ts where I unlocked Stasis

[Zevox]

After Thessia Tali is standing by the Normandy Memorial wall(still sans Kelly Chambers name *shakes fist*) and is talking to Garrus over the intercom about someone should talk to Liara. You can say you will and go in and speak with her. I think tha'ts where I unlocked Stasis
:smallfrown: I remember Tali standing by that wall, and I spoke with her, but she didn't mention talking with Liara. And she isn't there anymore.

I fear I may have missed it because I got Liara's conversation with Javik instead... that would suck, timing those conversations to coincide like that.
Zevox

[Derthric]

:smallfrown: I remember Tali standing by that wall, and I spoke with her, but she didn't mention talking with Liara. And she isn't there anymore.

I fear I may have missed it because I got Liara's conversation with Javik instead... that would suck, timing those conversations to coincide like that.
Zevox

I had both, so if you haven't started the next mission might be worth a try to head in there.

On that note, why was Liara so upset about possible Prothean involvement in asari cultural development? We know they were observing the next cycles races from events in the first games and Javik being able to recognize a Human despite being asleep for 50,000 years.

[Callos_DeTerran]

What are these "time-sensitive missions" of which you speak and how may I be ready for them?

Well...
Another poster mentioned this already, but remember how if you didn't go on the suicide mission right after the crew got kidnapped, half or all of it (sans Chakwas) are killed? Like that. Apparently, on Tuchunka
If you don't disarm the bomb in time, it detonates and wipes out tons of Krogan.

Unlike Mass Effect 2, they don't really warn you about this, so I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed situations like this where they ignored a mission to find out it turned sour on them. Some seem pretty obvious (the geth fight mission in Rannoch seems like it's another one), but I'd like to double check. As for being ready for them...you don't get ready you just 'do them'.


@ Callos_DeTerran: Please spoiler that first paragraph, since you're discussing parts of the story.

Done.


Broadly, I'd say it's divided into three: the Turians/Salarians/Krogan section, the Quarian/Geth section, and the Asari/Cerberus section. Plus the opening on Earth and Mars, if it counts.

So, in other words, I'm approaching the end-game now. Got it.

As far as major story points, I'm pretty sure you don't. Further improvements to your military forces will have to come from side-quests and scanning planets.

Damn. Guess I better get on that scanning then.

Seems as though that's it with her. Other than that you can walk in on her recording reports or talking with other crew members (usually Traynor via intercom), and that's it. She doesn't do much chatting.

...Wait, if that's it, then how do you romance Allers?

Hate to tell you, but that meeting on the Citadel was your chance to re-kindle your romance with her. I did it there. And yeah, she hasn't had anything to say to me since (though she had a scene with the DLC companion after Thessia). As I mentioned before, that one is worrying me, particularly since I haven't gotten her second bonus power, Stasis, yet.

Well I told Liara I wanted to re-kindle the romance with her on the Citadel and she seemed amicable to the idea, so I guess I did it? How do I find out for certain if Liara and Shep are re-united? Is there a scene Ishould watch out for that'll let me know? Also, you get Stasis after Thessia.

If you accidentally missed it in a mission you've already done, you can buy it from the Spectre shop. If not, it's in a mission you haven't done yet.

Gotcha.

Not me. I've honestly found it impossible to aim grenades at all - I never hit anybody with them when I throw them, so I've just stopped using them.

Singularity/Warp bombs work amazingly anyway, so it's not like I need them.

That's why I like the Cluster Grenades actually, they work better against armor and you don't really NEED to aim them, just tap the button in the general direction of the enemy and adjust your arc if you somehow miss. Keep in mind that grenades detonate instantly if they flat-out hit the opponent.

To a degree, maybe. Some work well that way, such as Kasumi and Grunt. I still miss having most of them as actual squad mates though, and would prefer many of ME2's to Vega, Tali, or even Liara in a couple cases. Would've preferred a slightly larger overall cast of squadmates too.

I think I'd prefer a slightly larger cast as well, but I'm actually finding myself happy with the roster I currently have. Except for Kaiden, who I saved on my canon-Shep's run just so I can say I did save him once...I'm regretting that decision constantly to be honest. But Vega doesn't seem that bad, even if I don't use him in missions. EDI, Tali, and Liara are as great as always and are my most frequent team-mates. Garrus is still a bro and Javik offers interesting conversations, a disturbingly ruthless viewpoint to temper my Shep's idealism, and Dark Channeling. It feels weird not having a Krogan on the squad though, after having two games with a krogan squad-mate...

Zevox


Responses in bold.

Un-related to anything, but I guess it's spoilers?
I'll be perfectly honest, I want more cut-scenes of Kai Leng fighting your previous squad-mates. Especially if he lost horribly in most of the fights. I'd love to see Zaeed take Kai Leng down or for Wrex to eat him like he always used to mention. Speaking of Zaeed, I actually found it a bit touching to see that after Zaeed's cameo-mission, you can see a report on the Broker terminal detailing the supplies he orders (if he's helping you out)...the very last of which are parts to fix his old rifle Jessie. Looks like Zaeed decided to tune the old-girl up so she could kill some Reaper and Cerberus with him in one last glorious war.

...Really, it's the little things getting to me in ME 3, along with the big things.

[Zevox]

I had both, so if you haven't started the next mission might be worth a try to head in there.

On that note, why was Liara so upset about possible Prothean involvement in asari cultural development? We know they were observing the next cycles races from events in the first games and Javik being able to recognize a Human despite being asleep for 50,000 years.
I already did the next mission, though, so that's a no-go. :smallfrown:

As for her being upset, well, she is an archaeologist, she's probably quite heavily invested in what she knows of Asari history. While it's not clear, maybe she was somewhat religious as well. And honestly, even without that, I could understand being startled and in denial after hearing Javik say that the Asari got their race-wide biotic potential from Prothean genetic engineering, since's that's such a defining trait of their species, one of the biggest things that make them special.
Zevox

[Callos_DeTerran]

I had both, so if you haven't started the next mission might be worth a try to head in there.

On that note, why was Liara so upset about possible Prothean involvement in asari cultural development? We know they were observing the next cycles races from events in the first games and Javik being able to recognize a Human despite being asleep for 50,000 years.

She's probably upset cause it makes it seem like all of the asari's cultural development is...well...not their own. How would you feel if all the accomplishments and developments of your race were suddenly revealed to be false and purely the result of an alien race trying to groom you all?

[Acanous]

Endgame spoilers ahoy

You know, something's been bugging me. The Starchild controls the citadel. The Starchild controls the reapers. Why was Soverign neccesary in ME1? Why did stopping him actually stop the reapers, if there was an AI running the citael?
The whole thing with the Keepers has been hinting that the Citadel has a secret since ME1, but that secret being an active intelligence that *Controls the Reapers* makes ME1 pointless and invalid.
The only logical explanation is that the starchild isn't actually the Citadel, but a Reaper AI that interfaced with the citadel.
That way, the Reaper needs to get TO the citadel to take control of it.
We know Harbinger is the leader of the reapers.
We never kill Harbinger in-game.
I think the starchild IS HARBINGER.
And Shep just rolled over and did what he wanted.

[Derthric]

She's probably upset cause it makes it seem like all of the asari's cultural development is...well...not their own. How would you feel if all the accomplishments and developments of your race were suddenly revealed to be false and purely the result of an alien race trying to groom you all?

Both you and Zevox make valid points, I just think the anger just pushes too much. Shock, sadness at not having picked up on it, a range of emotions instead of "no it can't be true!" Not a bad thing just something I observed. Overall Thessia was a gut punch of epic scale, loved it.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Both you and Zevox make valid points, I just think the anger just pushes too much. Shock, sadness at not having picked up on it, a range of emotions instead of "no it can't be true!" Not a bad thing just something I observed. Overall Thessia was a gut punch of epic scale, loved it.

Well keep in mind it's probably not just anger at the Prothean meddling with asari culture, but her anger/grief at Thessia's fall bleeding into her anger at the Protheans. It's a gut punch of epic scales what Liara had to see, you can't expect it to NOT bleed over into her other concerns at the time.

[Zevox]

Edit: Re: Callos_deTerran:

...Wait, if that's it, then how do you romance Allers?
I was assuming that you don't. If you can, maybe you're not allowed to after starting a romance with someone else? Otherwise it doesn't happen until after starting the final mission, because that's all I have left, and I haven't had an opportunity to start one with her. (Or maybe she's just straight - I'm playing a female, so I wouldn't know in that case.)


Well I told Liara I wanted to re-kindle the romance with her on the Citadel and she seemed amicable to the idea, so I guess I did it? How do I find out for certain if Liara and Shep are re-united? Is there a scene Ishould watch out for that'll let me know?
That's all I've gotten so far. A conversation I had with Javik had him asking if Liara and I were "bonded," and the response was "you could say that," but that's all I've seen. Maybe there's another scene before the final mission though that makes it official - that was where the sex scenes were in ME1 and 2 after all.


Also, you get Stasis after Thessia.
As mentioned above, I didn't. And it looks like I just won't get it at all in this file. :smallfrown:

That's why I like the Cluster Grenades actually, they work better against armor and you don't really NEED to aim them, just tap the button in the general direction of the enemy and adjust your arc if you somehow miss. Keep in mind that grenades detonate instantly if they flat-out hit the opponent.
Well, that's never happened when I've tried to use them. They always go bouncing past the enemy or otherwise explode harmlessly too far from any targets.


I think I'd prefer a slightly larger cast as well, but I'm actually finding myself happy with the roster I currently have. Except for Kaiden, who I saved on my canon-Shep's run just so I can say I did save him once...I'm regretting that decision constantly to be honest. But Vega doesn't seem that bad, even if I don't use him in missions. EDI, Tali, and Liara are as great as always and are my most frequent team-mates. Garrus is still a bro and Javik offers interesting conversations, a disturbingly ruthless viewpoint to temper my Shep's idealism, and Dark Channeling. It feels weird not having a Krogan on the squad though, after having two games with a krogan squad-mate...
Honestly, I've been disappointed with Ashley as well.
She has had almost no conversations with me. There was just one on the Citadel, and one on the Normandy - and the one on the Normandy was just her suffering from a nasty hangover after Vega got her to drink something potent the night before. She hasn't had much to say in her monologues either. She was actually probably my favorite in ME1 (mostly because nobody stood out much in that one, but still), and I was hoping that ME3 would do for her what ME2 did for Garrus and Tali, and Lair of the Shadowbroker did for Liara, but nope, doesn't look like it.

Doesn't help that she spent half of the game incapacitated on the Citadel. Seriously don't know why Bioware did that.
As for the others, Vega suffers from the same "boring human soldier" syndrome that afflicted Kaiden and Jacob, and for the others, well, I just think that many of the ME2 companions were more enjoyable and interesting than Tali and Liara (more so the former than the latter, but still, I'd have traded Liara for Mordin or Jack without a second thought).
Well, for Jack anyway, given Mordin's role in the plot, but if he didn't have to die I'd have taken him over just about anyone.
Really, I think my problem is that the companion selection comes off as just "ME1 companions plus replacements for the two that can't be companions this time." Considering I liked the ME2 companions better than anyone in ME1, that kind of doesn't seem like that great of a line-up to me, even with ME2 having improved half of them.

Zevox

[Derthric]

Edit: Re: Callos_deTerran:
Honestly, I've been disappointed with Ashley as well.
She has had almost no conversations with me. There was just one on the Citadel, and one on the Normandy - and the one on the Normandy was just her suffering from a nasty hangover after Vega got her to drink something potent the night before. She hasn't had much to say in her monologues either. She was actually probably my favorite in ME1 (mostly because nobody stood out much in that one, but still), and I was hoping that ME3 would do for her what ME2 did for Garrus and Tali, and Lair of the Shadowbroker did for Liara, but nope, doesn't look like it.

Doesn't help that she spent half of the game incapacitated on the Citadel. Seriously don't know why Bioware did that.

I liked that part it gave me personal motivation to destroy Cerberus, I was loyal to her through ME2. Part of this game was the pay off for that and then BAM. She's given a huge beat down. The conversation my Shep had with her in her recovery coma was very touching, it was him telling her how he felt, without fear because nearly losing her meant so much to him.

Also did you attend her Brother-in-Laws memorial on the citadel? That was a touching moment too. Unfortunate implications of her family's unhappy ending on the citadel not withstanding.




As for the others, Vega suffers from the same "boring human soldier" syndrome that afflicted Kaiden and Jacob, and for the others, well, I just think that many of the ME2 companions were more enjoyable and interesting than Tali and Liara (more so the former than the latter, but still, I'd have traded Liara for Mordin or Jack without a second thought).


Well, for Jack anyway, given Mordin's role in the plot, but if he didn't have to die I'd have taken him over just about anyone.
Really, I think my problem is that the companion selection comes off as just "ME1 companions plus replacements for the two that can't be companions this time." Considering I liked the ME2 companions better than anyone in ME1, that kind of doesn't seem like that great of a line-up to me, even with ME2 having improved half of them.

Zevox

I have no problem with Vega, heck I liked Jacob. They both salute me and they mean it. Neither one is remarkable but both are dedicated, hard working, and loyal, qualities I admire.

I liked all my companions this round. in fact I've liked, to varying degrees of course, all the companions in the games. I am sappy like that I guess

[Avilan the Grey]

This guy (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9724883) (warning, Bioware's official forums) has summarized the endings, and in a good way.

Also, as someone in that thread suspects: Many, Many players refuse to do the two endings where Shepard dies. It is different in DA:O that allows you to both eat the cake and save it by first tell you you have to sacrifice the Warden, but then give you a loophole where everyone else lives ANYWAY. IN this game you actually have to choose. And if you are not a pure renegade,I honestly cannot see Shepard prioritize his or her own life in ANY way.

[Morty]

I have to say, the Scorpion is surprisingly effective. At first I thought it was going to be a "cool but impractical" weapon, but it blows things up nicely. Now that I've found the Phalanx, I'm actually not sure if I want to switch...
Also, comments on Tuchanka after finishing it:
I considered going through with the Dalatrass' plan, but... double-crossing the Krogan and screwing them over again would be too much even for a Renegade. Plus I'd rather have Wrex watching my back than some Salarian politician. Still, the game punished me for zig-zagging with my stance on the Krogan, which I suppose makes sense. I wonder if destroying Maelon's data gives you some benefit if you end up sabotaging the cure...

[Derthric]

This guy (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9724883) (warning, Bioware's official forums) has summarized the endings, and in a good way.

Also, as someone in that thread suspects: Many, Many players refuse to do the two endings where Shepard dies. It is different in DA:O that allows you to both eat the cake and save it by first tell you you have to sacrifice the Warden, but then give you a loophole where everyone else lives ANYWAY. IN this game you actually have to choose. And if you are not a pure renegade,I honestly cannot see Shepard prioritize his or her own life in ANY way.

I liked most of that post from BSN, thanks for sharing.

For me I picked the Merge option, I wasn't about to screw over the geth or more importantly EDI with destroy. I'll be damned if I would posthumously prove TIM right with dominate. I think the OP of that thread hit an excellent point with his last few paragraphs, the sacrifice of Shepard isn't the real downer ending. The crash and isolation of the Normandy is. I admit I wanted a "little blue babies" outcome but that not being possible isn't the problem. Its that in the end it all feels meaningless.

[Grif]

I liked most of that post from BSN, thanks for sharing.

For me I picked the Merge option, I wasn't about to screw over the geth or more importantly EDI with destroy. I'll be damned if I would posthumously prove TIM right with dominate. I think the OP of that thread hit an excellent point with his last few paragraphs, the sacrifice of Shepard isn't the real downer ending. The crash and isolation of the Normandy is. I admit I wanted a "little blue babies" outcome but that not being possible isn't the problem. Its that in the end it all feels meaningless.

The Merge option sounds like a giant screw you choice to be honest. Forcibly merging every organic thing with synthetics? Seriously. No. Freedom of choice should be allowed.

Then again, none of those choices really make sense from a story writing point of view.

[Yana]

I liked most of that post from BSN, thanks for sharing.

For me I picked the Merge option, I wasn't about to screw over the geth or more importantly EDI with destroy. I'll be damned if I would posthumously prove TIM right with dominate. I think the OP of that thread hit an excellent point with his last few paragraphs, the sacrifice of Shepard isn't the real downer ending. The crash and isolation of the Normandy is. I admit I wanted a "little blue babies" outcome but that not being possible isn't the problem. Its that in the end it all feels meaningless.

I'll second that "little blue babies" option. I know it was unrealistic in hindsight to hope for a "happily ever after" for Shepard, but I still wish the game had ended on a lighter note.

[Avilan the Grey]

I'll second that "little blue babies" option. I know it was unrealistic in hindsight to hope for a "happily ever after" for Shepard, but I still wish the game had ended on a lighter note.

Heh. I still forsee a future DLC Epilogue Comic that expands on things. for $7.

The Merge option is, as far as I understand it, the third option. The idea is that nobody has managed to make syntethics and organics play along nicely before, so if you have managed to broke peace between Quarians and Geth, you can get this option, because the "space baby" has to reconsider it's beliefs.

[Calemyr]

@Calemyr: Can we please not use the word "retarded"? I take extreme offense to the word. My reasons are personal.

You are absolutely right. Poor choice of words on my part. My apologies.

Thessia
At first I thought Liara's reactions to the temple artifacts were a bit extreme, but then I realized there's a lot of foundation that one revelation is kicking out from under her.

* Her race is not superior, they cheated.

* Her race has built their existence on breaking a rule they wrote to cripple others.

* Her race did not work out life on their own, they were handheld the whole way.

* The "goddess" she and the asari constantly refer to and some revere, belief in whom has been a shaping factor in their culture since they HAD a culture, is an alien. Their whole belief structure is a lie.

* Her mother took her to see that place once (which is actually a clever way to get put it in her head in case it's ever needed), but said nothing about its secret.

* Her profession and passion almost seems a joke in light of the revelation. The matriarchs knew more about the Protheans than she'd ever been able to work out, and at first she envisions them all (mother included) laughing at her in her deluded exuberance.

* Her race should have been well aware of the threat of the Reapers, but they had the unmitigated arrogance to not only feign ignorance but treat Shepard as a fool and not just ignore his warnings but actively convince others to dismiss them. Thessia's situation is well earned.

* Watching her people get slaughtered wholesale was bad enough, convincing them to stay and help was harder still, but realizing that the only outcome is revealing to herself and the person she loved/respected most in the galaxy that her race is not the perfect and beautiful race she'd always thought them to be but instead were a selfish, self-righteous craven people who had the brass to convince their own children that their gifts were their own.

* This revelation is the last thing anyone will ever learn from Thessia. Any good they did, any virtue they had, all of it is forever tainted in this moment, and there is never going to be a chance to redeem themselves for it all. In the hall of fame of the great races, their name will be the one with the asterix beside it.

For all that she wasted her first century of life, Liara is a very smart person. I'd be surprised if all these thoughts weren't boiling to the surface as they explored more and more of the temple. Add in the stress of witnessing your world being harvested, and... well... her reaction was melodramatic, but believably so.


Ending
Starchild, Kid Glow, whatever you want to call him, you have to realize he isn't what you're seeing. The death of that kid in the prologue had a serious psychological impact on Shep and it always seems to be on the forefront of he subconscious (along with all those who've died in his name), as seen in his central role in Shep's dreams. That form is just the one the Catalyst took.

As for the paradox of needing Sovereign and the keepers when the Catalyst exists, I would venture to say the Catalyst is likely a humanized conversion of the hive mind of the keepers and, as such, its awareness was limited only to the Citadel itself. It needed a vanguard to take the temperature of the whole galaxy before it opened the floodgates - it didn't want to rip the galaxy apart, to end advanced life completely, until it absolutely had to in order to preserve the balance of the galaxy. That's the entire gambit, my friends: the Reapers either stop advanced life - preserving as much as possible in a nearly permanent fashion - or entropy advances too much and events conspire to wipe out everything. It's like setting fire to wetlands, it gets rid of the brush that's choking everything and gives room for other life to grow.

But the Protheans put a hole in that plan by using the Conduit and blinding the keepers to Sovereign's signal, which forced the Reaper to take drastic actions and reveal itself before their dominance was already in place. Likely their guard was down, because the Citadel was in Reaper control since the beginning of the harvest in that cycle, which gave the Protheans the opportunity to pull that off.

I would also note that this setting makes quite clear that actual thought isn't required to make believable conversation. Kid Glow may sound like an intelligent being, but it could simply be Avina, cleared of the asari interface it originally had. I don't remember for sure, but I thought I heard somewhere in the game that Avina was there and waiting for them when the asari found the Citadel (gee, wonder how) and took a familiar form to interact with them. In that case, Kid Glow wouldn't be a true intelligence, but merely a VI - as a major element in the entropy it wards against is the "inherent" incompatibility between organic and synthetic life, setting up a true AI might have been seen as counter to the plan.

Actually, I like that bit. Could we just call Deus Ex Glowie "Avina", it's a name we can use without having to completely spoil the ending.


Amalur weapons, take 2.
I don't know. All I know is all I had to do was log into EA during the demo, finish it, and then log into EA on ME3. The items were already there once I got free run of the ship again. No codes, no nothing. Of course, I did mine on PC both times. Maybe things are different when consoles are involved.

Time sensitive missions (that I know about)

* Grissom Academy - Left alone, Cerberus turns Jack into a weapon.
* Stop the Bomb (Tuchanka) - Left alone, the bomb goes off, killing Eve and decimating the Krogan race.

Possible ones (haven't heard of it going south, but I believe it could):
* The Ardat-Yakshi Monastary - Banshees are made from any asari with a predisposition towards the condition, and Samara certainly qualifies. A Samara banshee would be freaking terrifying.
* Save the Admiral (Rannoch) - Left alone, the admiral dies, depriving you of a voice of reason that proves key in allowing you to save both races.

There could be more, but they never came up for me because I stopped going for a "perfect" game once the second timed mission bit me in the ass. Or maybe I just stopped screwing around on missions I was explicitly given. I don't think there are any timed missions where you aren't pulled to one side and told about them, so fetch quests and they likely wouldn't count.

Tuchanka
Having kept Maelon's data, I believe it has a big effect on the outcome of that mission. If you destroyed it, maybe you can correct me, but the dialogue I got explicitly stated that Maelon's work was the only reason Mordin was able to keep Eve alive during the Shroud mission. Since Eve represents the ancient philosophy of the krogan, rather than the modern approach of Wreav and the postmodern philosophy of Wrex, a marriage between Wrex and Eve would transform the culture into something wonderful, into what Maelon had always dreamed they could be, something truly worthy of being part of the galactic scene.

That said, don't lolligag when offered a quest regarding a bomb there. Now I won't find out whether I'm right until my next time through, as Eve died in the bombing.

[Sholos]

Complaining about Kasumi is pretty stupid, frankly. A huge amount of content in ME2 and ME3 are only available if you played the previous game, which means that you're already forced to pay for outside software for a happier ending. I'm a little annoyed, though - for me, the Kasumi quest got to the final terminal and then I couldn't progress it any further.
I did play the previous game. In fact, I've played both previous games. To the level cap. And did everything in them. Got all the achievements even. And nowhere did it say that I'd have to pay extra for better endings. I didn't get a better ending in 1 or 2 because of DLC; I don't see why I should have to pay (in a previous game no less) now. Kasumi is NOT part of the normal game. So don't tell me that I'm stupid. What's stupid is having a DLC character have such a significant impact on the story. :smallmad:

[Morty]

How do you unlock EDI's powers? I've been playing a while, and I haven't unlocked even one.

[NEO|Phyte]

What's stupid is having a DLC character have such a significant impact on the story. :smallmad:

With the numbers you need for the endings, and the numbers you can get in the game, it is not a significant impact at all. More than what Conrad gets you, certainly, but by no means a make or break the ending impact.

[Zevox]

How do you unlock EDI's powers? I've been playing a while, and I haven't unlocked even one.
Just keep talking to her after each mission. She takes a while to give you conversations and bonus powers, but it happens eventually.

Zevox

[Aotrs Commander]

Nice job Bioware... Finally get ME 3 installed (stupid later EU release dates), and not only will Origin not seem to want to process me buying the wotsit DLC after three tries, it's not clear if my Amazon code bonus item is installed or anything but I can't import my Shepard's face...

Nowt like having to do a run-around with a third-party application to try and see IF I can rectify this...oversight... to build one's confidence in one's games manufacturer, is there?

(And no manual? Really guys? A folded piece of paper you clearly only included to have something to put the code on? And the inside cover slip is the same as the outside? I mean, I know I bought the reguler version (because £70, which was what Game wanted for the collector's edition was freakin' wishful thinking), but seriously? Cheap much?)

The fact that, as sorta the point of the trilogy was to take a character through all three games, Bioware decided to apparently change the facial software (as if I'm reading the threads aright, they took out/changed some of the options) as well as not importing properly is simply jaw-dropping.

So I've not even started playing yet and I'm already not impressed and rather disappointed. If ME3 turns out not to be at the very least as good as the previous two (which were as good as each other, in their various ways), I suspect I've bought my last Bioware game...

Don't mind me whinging, folks, I'm just letting off steam because there's nobody around to gripe to in person (besides, isn't whinging sort of protocol, right...?) It's just that all the things I'm interested in seem to be losing a bit of their lustre at the moment. (I was really looking forward to Sword of the Stars III Edit: II (I'm an idiot to irritated to properly proof read), until I discovered it was not only DX10 only, but they made a complete hash of release.)

[Calemyr]

With the numbers you need for the endings, and the numbers you can get in the game, it is not a significant impact at all. More than what Conrad gets you, certainly, but by no means a make or break the ending impact.

While this is true, I don't think it's the numbers that bother Sholos, but the fact that a race HAS to be sacrificed to save the other if you don't get the DLC. I think Sholos wants to save everybody, and to find out a DLC is possibly the only thing getting in the way... well, I can see being annoyed by that. Still, I hold to my original stance on it: this game already relies heavily on money being spent on other games. As these things go, Kasumi was a very nice DLC that wasn't all that expensive and added a lot to the game (more than Zaeed at least). You missed out on a lot without it, though more in that game than this one.

[Falgorn]

Nice job Bioware... Finally get ME 3 installed (stupid later EU release dates), and not only will Origin not seem to want to process me buying the wotsit DLC after three tries, it's not clear if my Amazon code bonus item is installed or anything but I can't import my Shepard's face...

Nowt like having to do a run-around with a third-party application to try and see IF I can rectify this...oversight... to build one's confidence in one's games manufacturer, is there?

(And no manual? Really guys? A folded piece of paper you clearly only included to have something to put the code on? And the inside cover slip is the same as the outside? I mean, I know I bought the reguler version (because £70, which was what Game wanted for the collector's edition was freakin' wishful thinking), but seriously? Cheap much?)

The fact that, as sorta the point of the trilogy was to take a character through all three games, Bioware decided to apparently change the facial software (as if I'm reading the threads aright, they took out/changed some of the options) as well as not importing properly is simply jaw-dropping.

So I've not even started playing yet and I'm already not impressed and rather disappointed. If ME3 turns out not to be at the very least as good as the previous two (which were as good as each other, in their various ways), I suspect I've bought my last Bioware game...

Don't mind me whinging, folks, I'm just letting off steam because there's nobody around to gripe to in person (besides, isn't whinging sort of protocol, right...?) It's just that all the things I'm interested in seem to be losing a bit of their lustre at the moment. (I was really looking forward to Sword of the Stars III, until I discovered it was not only DX10 only, but they made a complete hash of release.)

This is a thread for BioWare "fans." Whining is, at the very least, a necessity. :smalltongue:

But, I think the game is EXCELLENT. It was definitely worth the money I put towards it.

[Leliel]

Nice job Bioware... Finally get ME 3 installed (stupid later EU release dates), and not only will Origin not seem to want to process me buying the wotsit DLC after three tries, it's not clear if my Amazon code bonus item is installed or anything but I can't import my Shepard's face...

Nowt like having to do a run-around with a third-party application to try and see IF I can rectify this...oversight... to build one's confidence in one's games manufacturer, is there?

(And no manual? Really guys? A folded piece of paper you clearly only included to have something to put the code on? And the inside cover slip is the same as the outside? I mean, I know I bought the reguler version (because £70, which was what Game wanted for the collector's edition was freakin' wishful thinking), but seriously? Cheap much?)

The fact that, as sorta the point of the trilogy was to take a character through all three games, Bioware decided to apparently change the facial software (as if I'm reading the threads aright, they took out/changed some of the options) as well as not importing properly is simply jaw-dropping.

So I've not even started playing yet and I'm already not impressed and rather disappointed. If ME3 turns out not to be at the very least as good as the previous two (which were as good as each other, in their various ways), I suspect I've bought my last Bioware game...

Don't mind me whinging, folks, I'm just letting off steam because there's nobody around to gripe to in person (besides, isn't whinging sort of protocol, right...?) It's just that all the things I'm interested in seem to be losing a bit of their lustre at the moment. (I was really looking forward to Sword of the Stars III, until I discovered it was not only DX10 only, but they made a complete hash of release.)

Firstly, it's Sword of the Stars II. If you can't get the name of the game right, people tend to ignore your reviews on the basis of you being an idiot who can't get the name of the game right.

No offense, just me being a smart-arse.

Also, a metaphor I heard what that ME3 is like a book that you can't judge by it's cover. Both front, and back covers.

Also-the gritty, muted colors let up when you reach the Citadel.

[Aotrs Commander]

Firstly, it's Sword of the Stars II. If you can't get the name of the game right, people tend to ignore your reviews on the basis of you being an idiot who can't get the name of the game right.

No offense, just me being a smart-arse.

Y'see, if I wasn't trying to do figure out how the frak to get Shepard's head right (since the linked head yaml code generator site doesn't seem to want to work for me, and trying to try a different tack by going into ME 2 failed because ME2 crashed out), I might actually have done my usual of properly proof-reading my own posts!

[Triscuitable]

So by playing Infiltrator, I've got 100% Galactic Readiness before I even touched ME3.

[Calemyr]

Two things get me about this game:

First, the interconnectivity of it all:
Conrade is an excellent example of this. No less than four ME1 events and 1 ME2 event factor into the outcome. First, if you helped a tech on Feros recover his data, Conrad will coordinate with him. Second, if you got the Elkoss Combine license, he can get the resources he needs. I find it hilarious that he actually turns out to be really dang useful. Oh, sure, 5 points isn't much, but Jack and Samara only contribute 25, so 5 points is massive in comparison. I'd love to be the equivalent of a fifth of Jack. Or at least have a fifth of scotch.

But then it all falls to whether or not you helped Jenna with her undercover work with Chelik for the final outcome. Does Conrad make an epic sacrifice to save the life of his hero or does he make an ass of himself and hook up with an impressed secret agent as a result? Depends on whether Jenna had the chance to learn some hacking skills from Chelik.


The other is how differently things could have gone if the Reapers had chosen a different spokesperson in ME1:
Scene: Virmire, conversation with Vanguard (instead of Sovereign)

Shep: You're coming to destroy us all, just like you did to the Protheans!

Vanguard: Destroy... No. It is not your destruction we seek. It is your preservation. What we offer is immortality. Not death.

Shep: Say that to everyone you've killed.

Vanguard: An unfortunate consequence of organic resistance. It is always the same. A close-minded rejection of a gift you do not understand. Your preservation is desirable. But comes secondary to the preservation of the galaxy. We will destroy all resistance and then preserve what we can.

Shep: And when you say "preserve" you mean...?

Vanguard: You will become like us. We are each a nation. Your nation will stand with us.

Shep: The hell we will!

Vanguard: An understandable response. Born from limited perspective. You consider a thousand years to be something to aspire to. We hardly notice. You have barely witnessed a fraction of your own history. We have witnessed the entire histories of countless civilizations. Patterns emerge with perspective. The outcome is inevitable. Left alone all life in the galaxy would perish. There would be no preservation. Only silence for eternity. Races innocent of the risk you pose would perish as well. Only the cycle allows life to continue.

Shep: You don't know that.

Vanguard: We have seen it. Had we not acted, you would not exist.

Shep: But maybe we're different.

Vanguard: So organics in every cycle believe. They were not. You are not. The pattern is inviolate. Intervention is the only solution.

Shep: We'll fight to the last.

Vanguard: You will not. Bravado will fail as you lose ground. You will fight. You will die. We will pick up the pieces. The pattern is inviolate.

Shep: I will fight you to the last.

Vanguard: You will. Your actions will prolong the suffering of your kind. Your removal must be made a priority. Make peace with whatever gods you have made. We are coming.

I don't think I changed anything about the Reapers or the conflict, I just changed the tone it was presented in. I wonder what would have happened if it had been this "Vanguard" rather than Sovereign, if Reapers had bothered to learn the virtues of PR.

[Avilan the Grey]

Apparently things are moving behind the scenes at Bioware. A recent twitter discussion between employees shows that they want to respond but can' t yet, since they have a no spoiler period after the game is released and not everyone has even had the game released yet (Japan is last, at the 15th).

[Corvus]

So the voting on the endings over on the Bioware forums continues to pick up pace - after 5 days it has now had almost 10,000 votes, which is 50% more votes than any previous poll on the forums.

Results;

84% say the ending sucked.
12% say it is fine, if the Normandy crashed on Earth.
3% says it is fine.

[Falgorn]

Apparently things are moving behind the scenes at Bioware. A recent twitter discussion between employees shows that they want to respond but can' t yet, since they have a no spoiler period after the game is released and not everyone has even had the game released yet (Japan is last, at the 15th).

Do you know when this no spoiler period ends? I'm interested in what they have to say.

@Calemyr: That was...some excellent dialogue you wrote up there.
But, perhaps the Reapers are made to play the part of the overly-hammy villain? "Avina" may have made them despise all organic life, but only harvest/destroy sufficiently advanced ones.

[Avilan the Grey]

Do you know when this no spoiler period ends? I'm interested in what they have to say.

Unfortunately, no. I assume 2-4 weeks after the last region gets the game, but that is just a guess.

[Triscuitable]

So I'm in the middle of Bring Down the Sky, and I've found it's one of the more interesting sidequests of Mass Effect. Visiting an asteroid is really neat, and being able to look up and see Terra Nova (no relation) is really cool.

And then there's the initial worried feelings I got. "This is a free DLC (PC), but it seems a little short. Xbox players had to buy this." Then I realized it sells for a dollar on XBL, and quit bitching. The mission is perfect for an Adept, and it's really an exciting mission. I've upgraded Singularity and Throw, and equipped cooldown reduction mods to be constantly wailing Biotics on enemies. I don't even use a pistol anymore!

[NEO|Phyte]

So there's been the inevitable endless ending discussion going on on another forum, and I came up with the following regarding the generally most common issue.

It's less the number of endings and more how they are presented. Having a glowy kid show up and explain that it created the reapers to stop synthetics from destroying organics, but since you're so special here's some ways to stop it is just terrible.

A more fitting with expectations way to present the options would be, instead of the elevator to glowboy, Avina shows up, having interfaced with the linked crucible, and explains the Crucible's options based on what endings your effective war assets have unlocked, and entirely ignore the "these two endings require you to sacrifice yourself, and you're unlikely to survive the other ending because you've got synthetic bits in you" stuff.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

This guy (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9724883) (warning, Bioware's official forums) has summarized the endings, and in a good way.

Also, as someone in that thread suspects: Many, Many players refuse to do the two endings where Shepard dies. It is different in DA:O that allows you to both eat the cake and save it by first tell you you have to sacrifice the Warden, but then give you a loophole where everyone else lives ANYWAY. IN this game you actually have to choose. And if you are not a pure renegade,I honestly cannot see Shepard prioritize his or her own life in ANY way.
The post you've linked to basically explains my opinions on the ending in a much more concise way.

[Aotrs Commander]

*sigh* So instead of spending two and a half hours playing ME3, I've spent about that pratting around trying to (and apparently failing) to get my Femshep face imported (and so will probably have try from scratch, or at least an approximation from ME2 which is as close as I can manage...) and trying to fathom why EA in their infinite wisdom, thought making Origin apparently fail to co-operate with fraking Paypal seemed like a good idea. I mean, for frag's sake EA, so I can use my credit card fine, but Origin refuses to link through to Paypal? (I'm not the only one having this problem, from the results of the google search.) Still, I suppose the fact it was locking up before it charged me or anything is better than the alternative...

I think I spent less time faffing about getting Moo3 installed and patched up the wazoo. (Hint Bioware, if I have time to play Pokemon while I'm waiting to get through the (unskippable) starting cutscene of your last game so I can make a passable attempt at playing your current one, something is ever so slightly wrong...) Come back Blizzard, all is forgiven. (Actually, it never wasn't as SCII had the slickest install I have seen in a very long time. Rest of industry take note...)



I'm just not having any luck with computer games this year... It took four bloody attempts to buy Pokemon Platinum, fer crying out loud; one fake, one out-of-stock and one duff seller (on Amazon of all places).

Yes, yes, sorry, I'm griping, I know...

...

Oh bugger this for a game of soldiers, I'm going to watch My Little Pony.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Amalur weapons, take 2.
I don't know. All I know is all I had to do was log into EA during the demo, finish it, and then log into EA on ME3. The items were already there once I got free run of the ship again. No codes, no nothing. Of course, I did mine on PC both times. Maybe things are different when consoles are involved.
I'm on PC too, so apparently this shouldn't be an issue.

Time sensitive missions (that I know about)

* Grissom Academy - Left alone, Cerberus turns Jack into a weapon.
* Stop the Bomb (Tuchanka) - Left alone, the bomb goes off, killing Eve and decimating the Krogan race.

Possible ones (haven't heard of it going south, but I believe it could):
* The Ardat-Yakshi Monastary - Banshees are made from any asari with a predisposition towards the condition, and Samara certainly qualifies. A Samara banshee would be freaking terrifying.
* Save the Admiral (Rannoch) - Left alone, the admiral dies, depriving you of a voice of reason that proves key in allowing you to save both races.

There could be more, but they never came up for me because I stopped going for a "perfect" game once the second timed mission bit me in the ass. Or maybe I just stopped screwing around on missions I was explicitly given. I don't think there are any timed missions where you aren't pulled to one side and told about them, so fetch quests and they likely wouldn't count.

How much time do you HAVE on these missions? Is it something like "Do this mission you just got now before other, less urgent ones or else it'll be gone," similar to rescuing your crew from the Collector Base? Or is it on a literal timer, like "If you don't do this mission in X amount of minutes or in-game-time-units, you lose it," like the timers in the first Fallout game?

[Falgorn]

So there's been the inevitable endless ending discussion going on on another forum, and I came up with the following regarding the generally most common issue.

It's less the number of endings and more how they are presented. Having a glowy kid show up and explain that it created the reapers to stop synthetics from destroying organics, but since you're so special here's some ways to stop it is just terrible.

A more fitting with expectations way to present the options would be, instead of the elevator to glowboy, Avina shows up, having interfaced with the linked crucible, and explains the Crucible's options based on what endings your effective war assets have unlocked, and entirely ignore the "these two endings require you to sacrifice yourself, and you're unlikely to survive the other ending because you've got synthetic bits in you" stuff.

As stated before, the kid is a psychological representation of what Shepard believes the Catalyst to be. Having a child there forces him into decisiveness, while he was (apparently) upset by seeing the particular child die. It's a matter of taste, though; I don't like the kid either.

And, it isn't "oh you're special here's the way to fix it," it's that the Catalyst has admitted defeat. It's been around for hundreds of thousands of years, with its hypothesis about the synthetic/organic relationship remaining true the majority of the time. But, in this cycle, the sheer fact that Shepard has met the Catalyst means that something has gone horribly awry in the Catalyst's plan. The fact that higher civilization survived the initial Reaper attack was astonishing; something the Catalyst was unprepared for. Shepard showed the Catalyst that it was wrong. The galaxy fought harder this time than in any cycle before. For me, this was just another time Shepard pulled off the nigh-impossible - He had, essentially, a god in front of him. And he proved God wrong. I thought it was cool.

Also, why is everyone especially surprised that Shepard had to die? I've, essentially, been preparing for it. They set sacrifice up as a theme starting from the first game; in the second game, the story was much more about character interaction, and as such, a character's death in the Suicide Mission had that much more of an impact. (Honestly, I wished they had forced at least one member of your team to die.) The death of Shepard in ME3 was no surprise to me. But, after the Reaper War, what did you expect him to do? He's watched his closest friends die in front of him, and there was nothing he could do to stop it. Shepard would, realistically, have massive PTSD issues after the war.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

As stated before, the kid is a psychological representation of what Shepard believes the Catalyst to be. Having a child there forces him into decisiveness, while he was (apparently) upset by seeing the particular child die. It's a matter of taste, though; I don't like the kid either.

And, it isn't "oh you're special here's the way to fix it," it's that the Catalyst has admitted defeat. It's been around for hundreds of thousands of years, with its hypothesis about the synthetic/organic relationship remaining true the majority of the time. But, in this cycle, the sheer fact that Shepard has met the Catalyst means that something has gone horribly awry in the Catalyst's plan. The fact that higher civilization survived the initial Reaper attack was astonishing; something the Catalyst was unprepared for. Shepard showed the Catalyst that it was wrong. The galaxy fought harder this time than in any cycle before. For me, this was just another time Shepard pulled off the nigh-impossible - He had, essentially, a god in front of him. And he proved God wrong. I thought it was cool.

Also, why is everyone especially surprised that Shepard had to die? I've, essentially, been preparing for it. They set sacrifice up as a theme starting from the first game; in the second game, the story was much more about character interaction, and as such, a character's death in the Suicide Mission had that much more of an impact. (Honestly, I wished they had forced at least one member of your team to die.) The death of Shepard in ME3 was no surprise to me. But, after the Reaper War, what did you expect him to do? He's watched his closest friends die in front of him, and there was nothing he could do to stop it. Shepard would, realistically, have massive PTSD issues after the war.
Very true, Falgorn. Honestly, this is why I picked Colonist with my main Shepard. It gives an excuse for the kid being so important to Shepard in my head-canon: Shepard sees himself back on Mindoir in that kid, a frightened and helpless victim in the face of cruel and merciless enemies, instead of just forming a mental attachment to some random kid he saw playing outside his window a few minutes before the crap hit the fan. Thus, the Catalyst becomes Shepard essentially seeing himself in both ways, both as that lost and orphaned kid on Mindoir and as the guiding hand of the galactic future. I know Shepard was actually 16 when that happened, but hey, it's how I see things.

Crazy, I know.

And honestly, I agree that I'm okay with Shepard not making it. As that post on BioWare's Social Network says, the real thing that sinks the ending is the Normandy's crash. That instead of hope for the future, we become worried Joker, Garrus, and company are going to starve to death, or worse, decide they need to repopulate and resort to cross-species mating and inbreeding.

[Morty]

I think over the next couple of days, I'm going to do some serious multiplayer... it's got to be a less tedious way of raising military strength than scanning Reaper-infested systems for banners, obelisks and other junk.

[NEO|Phyte]

As stated before, the kid is a psychological representation of what Shepard believes the Catalyst to be. Having a child there forces him into decisiveness, while he was (apparently) upset by seeing the particular child die. It's a matter of taste, though; I don't like the kid either.

And, it isn't "oh you're special here's the way to fix it," it's that the Catalyst has admitted defeat. It's been around for hundreds of thousands of years, with its hypothesis about the synthetic/organic relationship remaining true the majority of the time. But, in this cycle, the sheer fact that Shepard has met the Catalyst means that something has gone horribly awry in the Catalyst's plan. The fact that higher civilization survived the initial Reaper attack was astonishing; something the Catalyst was unprepared for. Shepard showed the Catalyst that it was wrong. The galaxy fought harder this time than in any cycle before. For me, this was just another time Shepard pulled off the nigh-impossible - He had, essentially, a god in front of him. And he proved God wrong. I thought it was cool.

Also, why is everyone especially surprised that Shepard had to die? I've, essentially, been preparing for it. They set sacrifice up as a theme starting from the first game; in the second game, the story was much more about character interaction, and as such, a character's death in the Suicide Mission had that much more of an impact. (Honestly, I wished they had forced at least one member of your team to die.) The death of Shepard in ME3 was no surprise to me. But, after the Reaper War, what did you expect him to do? He's watched his closest friends die in front of him, and there was nothing he could do to stop it. Shepard would, realistically, have massive PTSD issues after the war.
The main part of the problem with the ending is that we go from slowly bleeding out to having God/an ancient AI/whatever sit us down and explain the reasoning behind the supposedly unknowable reapers, which, by the way, it created and controls. And then, despite having proven it wrong by the fact that you'd made it there, you can't go "screw you, we're doing this my way", you have to pick one of its options.

On Shepard dying, it's less ending up dead and more "Space Jesus died for your sins! (Also to give you glowy green circuit things)" Ending up dead from the Destroy ending (assuming you didn't have the needed EWA to get the extra clip of someone in scorched N7 armor being only mostly dead) makes sense, since as the catalyst points out, Shepard is partly synthetic. Control and Synthesis do not have such an explanation for why they require Shepard to die. Control especially, if the Catalyst is in charge of them, it should be able to go "Ok reapers, pack up and go home, we lost."

[Falgorn]

I think over the next couple of days, I'm going to do some serious multiplayer... it's got to be a less tedious way of raising military strength than scanning Reaper-infested systems for banners, obelisks and other junk.
That's mainly what I did. Much less tedious, and it let me and my friends have a ton of fun.


The main part of the problem with the ending is that we go from slowly bleeding out to having God/an ancient AI/whatever sit us down and explain the reasoning behind the supposedly unknowable reapers, which, by the way, it created and controls. And then, despite having proven it wrong by the fact that you'd made it there, you can't go "screw you, we're doing this my way", you have to pick one of its options.

On Shepard dying, it's less ending up dead and more "Space Jesus died for your sins! (Also to give you glowy green circuit things)" Ending up dead from the Destroy ending (assuming you didn't have the needed EWA to get the extra clip of someone in scorched N7 armor being only mostly dead) makes sense, since as the catalyst points out, Shepard is partly synthetic. Control and Synthesis do not have such an explanation for why they require Shepard to die. Control especially, if the Catalyst is in charge of them, it should be able to go "Ok reapers, pack up and go home, we lost."

I'm starting to think I'm being far too generous to Bioware with these endings. For now, the best response I can think of is "give Bioware some time to sort out the issue; Mass Effect had some great writing, I think that there may be a reasonable explanation for this all."

But, I'll try (emphasis on try) to refute the points you've presented. And, I'm pretty sure that Shepard's painted as the "Son of (Space) Man" purposely. I don't mind the fact that Shepard is, as you put, Space Jesus. His death (and the destruction of the mass relays) shows that the galaxy has finally broken free from a millions of years long cycle.
As for the Catalyst not just calling the attack off, I thought of this as a "cannot self terminate" moment. The Catalyst gives Shepard the power of choice in this situation, something that it itself cannot due. Perhaps the Catalyst is incapable of performing these things itself. As for why Shepard couldn't live, think back to the Overlord DLC, if you will. The geth drove David Archer to near insanity. It's implied that every Reaper is like the entire geth hivemind. To handle that and survive would be nigh impossible, and that would be just to communicate with them on their level.
I think that the Catalyst broke him down into genetic material and transmitted that to every Reaper, personally.

Very true, Falgorn. Honestly, this is why I picked Colonist with my main Shepard. It gives an excuse for the kid being so important to Shepard in my head-canon: Shepard sees himself back on Mindoir in that kid, a frightened and helpless victim in the face of cruel and merciless enemies, instead of just forming a mental attachment to some random kid he saw playing outside his window a few minutes before the crap hit the fan. Thus, the Catalyst becomes Shepard essentially seeing himself in both ways, both as that lost and orphaned kid on Mindoir and as the guiding hand of the galactic future. I know Shepard was actually 16 when that happened, but hey, it's how I see things.

Crazy, I know.

And honestly, I agree that I'm okay with Shepard not making it. As that post on BioWare's Social Network says, the real thing that sinks the ending is the Normandy's crash. That instead of hope for the future, we become worried Joker, Garrus, and company are going to starve to death, or worse, decide they need to repopulate and resort to cross-species mating and inbreeding.

Understandable. I think that the crash wasn't a good idea, but I think that BioWare would've had even more flak thrown at them if they didn't do something with the squadmates.
I don't know, I'll wait for an official response from them before I jump to conclusions. I don't agree with the massive lynch mob that seems to have formed on BSN/YouTube.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Neither do I, Falgorn. Neither do I.

[Calemyr]

On the bright side, Bioware has been able to elicit a response from their audience. Most games hardly get a "that was fun, what's due out next" reaction, much less a lynch mob within days of the game hitting the shelves. That's pretty darn impressive. Hopefully EA will take it as a cue to fix it and not as evidence that Bioware was a bad investment.

About the timed missions: There's nothing timed about the missions themselves. No clock saying x minutes until the fecal material impacts the rotary impeller. Timed missions are timed in the sense you have to act on them very shortly after obtaining them. If you get such a mission but ignore it in favor of other missions for too long (I've heard three missions), the mission just defaults to the worst possible outcome. They're usually logical - objectives that are already on the brink of collapse can do so if you ignore them. I just wish I'd known that, as I wouldn't have been so gung-ho about getting Tali ASAP.

Oh and about my previous "Reapers with good PR" post:
I don't believe they ever had to worry about PR before. Their strategies are built upon blitz strikes, decapitating assaults, and psychological warfare. They cripple their prey, leave them defenseless and blind, and then screw with their brains until all resistance dies out. In those cases, the cryptic and enigmatic soulless killing machine persona makes it all work easier. The unknown fear is always more crippling than the known threat.

Put another way, they are the gods of the sneak attack, but it's awful hard backstab someone who knows you're there - the old tried and true tactics are not only ineffective, they're downright detrimental, and they lack the ability to adjust in such a short time frame. That's the only reason they're not winning handily. It's like the American revolution all over again - the British were a vastly superior fighting force, but were unable to cope with the guerilla tactics the Americans adopted, and all that discipline and training that had hardened the redcoats into such a fearsome force also kept them from adapting properly.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Oh and about my previous "Reapers with good PR" post:
I don't believe they ever had to worry about PR before. Their strategies are built upon blitz strikes, decapitating assaults, and psychological warfare. They cripple their prey, leave them defenseless and blind, and then screw with their brains until all resistance dies out. In those cases, the cryptic and enigmatic soulless killing machine persona makes it all work easier. The unknown fear is always more crippling than the known threat.

Put another way, they are the gods of the sneak attack, but it's awful hard backstab someone who knows you're there - the old tried and true tactics are not only ineffective, they're downright detrimental, and they lack the ability to adjust in such a short time frame. That's the only reason they're not winning handily. It's like the American revolution all over again - the British were a vastly superior fighting force, but were unable to cope with the guerilla tactics the Americans adopted, and all that discipline and training that had hardened the redcoats into such a fearsome force also kept them from adapting properly.


See, I'd like to agree with your thoughts, but I just can't. It's based around the assumption that the Reapers are losing...which they aren't. At any point in the game. Sure, they become concerned about TIM's plans, but we find out TIM's plans were never really a threat to them if TIM himself enacted them. Thessia is wiped out, Palaven is going the same path as earth, and so are many other worlds. The Reapers are winning, Hackett even says at one point that if they're going to deploy the Crucible then they need to do it soon.

Are the Reapers tactics AS effective as they were in previous cycles? Debatable, we only have information on the Prothean cycle and not much at that. They seem to be doing a swell job, especially since their cold, mysterious killing machine persona STILL keeps anybody from guessing the Reaper's motives which also keeps people from effectively fighting back against the Reapers since they don't know what the Reapers want.

On the End (Now that I've gotten to it):
I have to honestly say, I'm perfectly happy with it. All of it actually, even the Normandy crashing. Mass Effect was never going to have a fairy-tale ending, definitely not for my canon-Shep, and the ending I got was still loads betterthen what I expected to happen. So the Normandy crashed on a strange planet and you only see three people get out....so? I had Liara with me when I was charging the Citadal conduit and Harbinger landed. I thought for sure she'd been killed. It was a relief seeing she was still alive. The build-up was ideal, everyone seemed to realize and accept that Shepard probably wasn't going to make it, Liara especially (being the LI and all). I'm not sad shepard died, it has to happen sometimes in a story and Shepard died for something.

Something really special.

I even like the Stargazer at the end, you know why? Cause it shows that life survived without the relays, and that on that planet at least people still had hope. They looked up at the stars and knew there was other life out there, just waiting for them to find it. They didn't just want to travel the stars, they wanted to see the fantastic creatures told about in the Shepard's tale. They want to see a krogan, quarian, turian, etc. They want to see how their lives have changed and become unique. They had hope, they had drive, and they were striving to return to the stars.

Uncertainty my sweet arse, that was perhaps the most wonderfully bittersweet ending I've seen in a game. Am I anxious about what happened to my squad and all th people in it? Yes. But I don't let that sour the end of the game for me, because I know Bioware has things planned and I trust them to do right by me cause they haven't wronged me yet.

Shepard's story is over, but I still need to wrap up the loose-ends of her squad and loved ones, especially Liara and the potential little blue babies growing up to hear these stories from their mother. I'm looking forward to what comes next for Mass Effect 3, extremely so actually.

P.S. I think the Stargazer was Joker to be perfectly honest.

P.S.S. I do admit getting an ending montage showing your squad-mate's ends and rebuilding might have been cool...but not at the expense of future adventures. Thus I'm content to wait...and to tear through ME 3 with my Renegade canon-shep.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, the start is at least promising...

I've got as far as the Citidel, at any rate...

Some mechanical questions for the folks that have played through, who will have a better idea than me... As for once, my usual brute force stratagy of "make enemy much hurt, maximise damage" doesn't have some obvious paths.

I'm playing inflitrator. I've maxed out my tactical cloak (aiming for the "shot people in the head" style) and sunk a bit in cryo (I( had a couple of ranks in cryo and disrupter from ME2), and nearly maxed-out incinerate.

I've made inroads to Operational Mastery, but my next decision is whether to take that +35 weight capacity, or the squad bonus - and for once I'm honestly not sure which is the better option. Now, I have already noticed a tendancy to run out of ammo (I've stuck with rifle and pistol, keeping incinerate's recharge up), so I'm leaning towards the former (if just to have some more back-up guns). Does increasing my capacity effectively reduce the load proportionally (i.e. I'm at +85% power recharge at the moment, down to +36% if I take an SMG. Would those percentages increase a lot if I took extra capacity or what?) This is probably my biggest area of lack of knowledge, between these two abilities.

What do you reckon is the best top Incinerate rank 6, freeze damage increase (as I'm probably going to be using cryo ammo quite a bit) or is the armour bonus better?

Are sticky grenades any good? (I.e. situtionally good or a must-have or something? Unless they're the latter, I'm probably going to leave them, as I'll likely never remember to use them most of the time...)

I sort of half hoping there's going to be a respec option (like the upgrade in ME2), as I'd prefer to juggle around some of the powers I bought in ME 2 for some of the newer ones.

[Derthric]

Kazumi thoughts
I agree that those choices being presented because you don't buy Kazumi, is pretty bad. If it were me I would have cut the whole quest. If you have it you get a handful of more EMS points. If not its only a small amount you'll be fine.

I have a question to post to you all who have beaten the game
Would you buy a "Broken Steel" DLC? Honestly I would. But I am curious as to who would be willing to see a change and who would be put off by the end as it is to the point of walking away.

[Sholos]

With the numbers you need for the endings, and the numbers you can get in the game, it is not a significant impact at all. More than what Conrad gets you, certainly, but by no means a make or break the ending impact.

I count that guy's death as significant. Yes, objectively it's not, but that's me.


While this is true, I don't think it's the numbers that bother Sholos, but the fact that a race HAS to be sacrificed to save the other if you don't get the DLC. I think Sholos wants to save everybody, and to find out a DLC is possibly the only thing getting in the way... well, I can see being annoyed by that. Still, I hold to my original stance on it: this game already relies heavily on money being spent on other games. As these things go, Kasumi was a very nice DLC that wasn't all that expensive and added a lot to the game (more than Zaeed at least). You missed out on a lot without it, though more in that game than this one.

Yes, this is exactly right. And now if I want that storyline, I not only have to pay an extra $5, but sit do yet another playthrough of ME2 (which, admittedly, isn't that bad, but I'm a completionist...).

I guess the other thing that irks me is that this isn't a result of a failing on my part in the game. I'd be fine if this was because I screwed up and she died, or screwed up and she hated me, or something like that. But this feels like I'm being punished for not giving EA my money. I think that's the part that really gets me.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I count that guy's death as significant. Yes, objectively it's not, but that's me.



Yes, this is exactly right. And now if I want that storyline, I not only have to pay an extra $5, but sit do yet another playthrough of ME2 (which, admittedly, isn't that bad, but I'm a completionist...).

I guess the other thing that irks me is that this isn't a result of a failing on my part in the game. I'd be fine if this was because I screwed up and she died, or screwed up and she hated me, or something like that. But this feels like I'm being punished for not giving EA my money. I think that's the part that really gets me.

Erm...except it's not sacrificing one race or another. It's letting A salarian die or the hanar race getting processed. Kasumi merely allows you to take a third option and get the Spectre squad (25 pointish) AND the hanar fleet/drell assassins (I forget how many points).

AOTRS: You can actually respec at any time by going to the medical bay. The first re-spec for any character is free, but after that it starts costing increasing amounts of credits.

Here's a question...I got the N7 Collector's Edition...where's my soundtrack?

[Sholos]

Erm...except it's not sacrificing one race or another. It's letting A salarian die or the hanar race getting processed. Kasumi merely allows you to take a third option and get the Spectre squad (25 pointish) AND the hanar fleet/drell assassins (I forget how many points).

Yes yes, I know. Minor quibble, though. I'm still being punished for not buying the DLC.

[Psyren]

*Wades through the sea of spoiler tags*

I have a gameplay question - is EDI's decoy available as a possible bonus power? If so, does Shepard using it make it... suck less?

Honestly, I think it's awful. Enemies still shoot at me rather than it, even when it's way out in front. And no matter who I'm targeting when I have her use it, it seems to always appear right in the middle of the battlefield, too far away for its pulse or detonation to do any good.

Since nobody targets it, the durability upgrades suck.
Since it always appears far from the enemy, the "trap" upgrades suck.

I'm on my way to the med-bay right now to bal33t the damn thing so I can put the points somewhere useful. (Neural Shock and Heavy Incinerate seem much more worthwhile.) Am I mistaken? Is this otherwise cool concept not actually crap?

[MCerberus]

Aotrs, if you're finding yourself running low on ammo, just put in an SMG with the ultralight materials mod and upgrading all your guns to level 5 (less weight, more ammo).

[nhbdy]

*Wades through the sea of spoiler tags*

I have a gameplay question - is EDI's decoy available as a possible bonus power? If so, does Shepard using it make it... suck less?

Honestly, I think it's awful. Enemies still shoot at me rather than it, even when it's way out in front. And no matter who I'm targeting when I have her use it, it seems to always appear right in the middle of the battlefield, too far away for its pulse or detonation to do any good.

Since nobody targets it, the durability upgrades suck.
Since it always appears far from the enemy, the "trap" upgrades suck.

I'm on my way to the med-bay right now to bal33t the damn thing so I can put the points somewhere useful. (Neural Shock and Heavy Incinerate seem much more worthwhile.) Am I mistaken? Is this otherwise cool concept not actually crap?
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Powers_%28Mass_Effect_3%29#Bonus_Powers

all of the bonus powers there, I have yet to use decoy from shepard but I have gotten them to shoot at EDI's decoy, it's all about who you target and where shepard is, usually my shepard has something between her and the bulk of the enemies (I vanguard charge the edges and work my way around to flank and kill) so the enemies can't usually target me too much, so that could be a part of it.

[Sarone]

Here's an even better question, in this day of age with Star Trek and Stargate: when did they crash? It will suck if they crashed in the distant past/future.

[Psyren]

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Powers_%28Mass_Effect_3%29#Bonus_Powers

all of the bonus powers there, I have yet to use decoy from shepard but I have gotten them to shoot at EDI's decoy, it's all about who you target and where shepard is, usually my shepard has something between her and the bulk of the enemies (I vanguard charge the edges and work my way around to flank and kill) so the enemies can't usually target me too much, so that could be a part of it.

My Shep is a caster sentinel (just like he was in ME1 and ME2) so I tend to be at the back. The decoy is *always* between me and the enemy, so I see no reason why they continually ignore it to shoot at me. Even the Brutes and Banshees run right past it to get in my face.

I retrained EDI out of it for Heavy Incinerate and Chain Neural Overload. She's working out much better this way I think.

[Leliel]

On the End (Now that I've gotten to it):
I have to honestly say, I'm perfectly happy with it. All of it actually, even the Normandy crashing. Mass Effect was never going to have a fairy-tale ending, definitely not for my canon-Shep, and the ending I got was still loads betterthen what I expected to happen. So the Normandy crashed on a strange planet and you only see three people get out....so? I had Liara with me when I was charging the Citadal conduit and Harbinger landed. I thought for sure she'd been killed. It was a relief seeing she was still alive. The build-up was ideal, everyone seemed to realize and accept that Shepard probably wasn't going to make it, Liara especially (being the LI and all). I'm not sad shepard died, it has to happen sometimes in a story and Shepard died for something.

Something really special.

I even like the Stargazer at the end, you know why? Cause it shows that life survived without the relays, and that on that planet at least people still had hope. They looked up at the stars and knew there was other life out there, just waiting for them to find it. They didn't just want to travel the stars, they wanted to see the fantastic creatures told about in the Shepard's tale. They want to see a krogan, quarian, turian, etc. They want to see how their lives have changed and become unique. They had hope, they had drive, and they were striving to return to the stars.

Uncertainty my sweet arse, that was perhaps the most wonderfully bittersweet ending I've seen in a game. Am I anxious about what happened to my squad and all th people in it? Yes. But I don't let that sour the end of the game for me, because I know Bioware has things planned and I trust them to do right by me cause they haven't wronged me yet.

Shepard's story is over, but I still need to wrap up the loose-ends of her squad and loved ones, especially Liara and the potential little blue babies growing up to hear these stories from their mother. I'm looking forward to what comes next for Mass Effect 3, extremely so actually.

P.S. I think the Stargazer was Joker to be perfectly honest.

P.S.S. I do admit getting an ending montage showing your squad-mate's ends and rebuilding might have been cool...but not at the expense of future adventures. Thus I'm content to wait...and to tear through ME 3 with my Renegade canon-shep.

Exactly.

No spoilers, but I think the ending is a beautiful concept, but the execution needed work.

Too many loose strings for it to be enjoyable on anything but the most cerebral of levels.

I am a cerebral person, but after mulling it over, I forgive other fans for hating it.

Except the "no eezo" thing, which was pulled out of the collective unconscious' arse. Seriously, where did that plot point come from? Certainly not the game.

[Zevox]

Okay, so after some efforts at soloing multiplayer to raise Galactic Readiness were proving waaaay too frustrating, I broke and actually used the multiplayer proper. Figured however much I may not care for the notion of shooter multiplayer, it had to be better than the torment of slowly leveling up solo. Thoughts on that:
Well, I was right, it wasn't bad. Even when my allies did little work*, just having other characters around to get shot at made things exponentially easier. Completed several games, took my Human Vanguard from level 8 to level 16, and got Galactic Readiness up to 78%. I was fortunate enough not to get anyone using a mic either, though there were some facepalm-worthy usernames.

Surprisingly, I was very often the MVP of the team, getting the most kills/xp (whichever that bar at the end measures), sometimes by quite a large margin. I'm not sure whether that's because of the Vanguard play style, if I'm actually somewhat good, or if everyone I was teamed with wasn't that good. I'm guessing some combination of the first and one of the latter two.

With all the money I made I finally bought a few veteran packs, and unlocked the Asari Vanguard and Salarian Engineer while I was at it. Since leveling up applies to all races in a class, that Asari is starting at level 16. I think I'll switch to using her if I ever play again (I noticed that Biotic Charge can detonate biotic combos, which makes me ponder the possibilities of Stasis + Charge - I'll have to remember that for single-player, once I unlock Stasis in that). Didn't get much for my shotguns though - just a level one accuracy mod, a level one damage mod, and the Scimitar.

*I had one game with only two other people: a Quarian Engineer 8, and a Human Adept 1. I was a Human Vanguard 10 at the time. The Adept never did much, and dropped out halfway through. Yeah, I was on my own for a lot of that match, and ultimately carried us to the end solo when the Quarian fell quickly during the last round. I very nearly didn't make it either, but a last-minute medigel saved me.

And, naturally, after doing that, I'm moving to finishing up the endgame. Thoughts, typed up as I play it:
Well, Kai Leng was actually a decent boss fight, surprisingly. And for the first time I got some use out of those cluster grenades - taking out the soldiers he called down quickly so I could focus on him.

Hm, if Javik and Liara died in that Reaper attack, I'm going to need to redo this. Don't mind losing Javik, but Liara is my romance - no way I'm losing her. Would probably bring EDI instead, since she's just remotely controlling that body from the Normandy anyway, so losing it doesn't mean losing her.

Hm, Illusive Man is something of a Saren repeat I see. Wonder what would've happened if I hadn't been picking persuasion choices? Unlike with Saren, you're in no condition to fight him. (Aside: oddly, I'm still able to pick either paragon or renegade choices this far into the game, in spite of not doing any renegade actions besides a couple of interrupts. Guess my little imported renegade boost plus all those generic reputation boosts really added up.)

...the kid again? So is he important and they weren't just showing him over and over to rub in that they killed a kid at the opening?

...okay, so why does the "catalyst" look like that human kid? Not gonna explain that, are they? Or what the "catalyst" is at all I imagine? Oh well. Guess they didn't want to explain where the Reapers came from in any detail.

...okay, this "catalyst" guy is kind of dumb. You created the Reapers so that synthetics wouldn't destroy all organics - but in the end, that's exactly what the Reapers do. Even given that they only harvest advanced species, given time all species will advance and be harvested, leaving nothing.

...okay, so there's no "just destroy the Reapers" option eh? Destroying them also kills the Geth. Definitely not going to do that. Controlling them is also out of the question - too dangerous, no way I'd want to risk them falling into the hands of anyone who might even mildly misuse them. So I guess I go for door #3: "synthesis." Of course, the Mass Relays being destroyed is kind of going to screw up the galaxy royally, but that happens no matter which option I pick, so there's no helping that.

Huh, Joker's glowing green at parts eh? Weird looking "synthesis." Guess this does allow him and EDI to work better as a couple though. Odd that she doesn't look more organic however.

Ah, Liara's alive after all then. Good, no need for me to redo this. Where the heck are they though :smallconfused: ? Some random planet in the middle of nowhere? Earth? A new galaxy entirely? All I'm seeing of it is jungle.

...and the credits are rolling, so that's it I guess. Huh. A bit abrupt, but I guess it'd take way too much new lore-building to provide a full epilogue to an ending like that. Better to leave it to the imagination. (Though this does raise the question of how they'll ever make further games set in the Mass Effect universe, given all three endings fundamentally change the universe in different ways, the one I picked being the most drastic. Guess they'd have to set them prior to the events of ME3.)

Wait, post-credits epilogue. Okay, far-future point, guy talking to his son about Shepard and space travel... yeah this didn't really add anything to the game, did it? Weird.
Wait, that was the extra part I played multiplayer to get, isn't it? Lame.

Okay then, I have to ask: what exactly about the ending is causing such controversy?
The fact that Sheperd dies no matter what? Eh, I can live with that. Heroic sacrifice and all.

The lack of a "kill the Reapers but put everything back to normal" choice? I can live with that as well - actually that's something that I figured would make the game less interesting since I had assumed it was practically required, and it's by far the most boring way to end a galaxy-shaking conflict like this due to being way too ideal, so I've gotta say, bold move on Bioware's part to not include it. It actually makes your victory feel a little less deus-ex-machina-y, even though that's still pretty much what the Crucible is.

The lack of a sensible explanation for the Reapers' motives/what the catalyst kid was? I'm a little bothered by the latter, but not too much. Explaining the Reapers has always been something I didn't expect they could pull off, because the Reapers don't make sense no matter how you try to think about them. Someone had to have built them, since they're machines, but it makes no sense for anyone in their right mind to do so. I made that criticism way back after I played the first game, and I'm not surprised in the least that it turns out I was right about it. As such, I've kind of been resigned to that for a while.

Or is it something I'm missing entirely? I don't know, maybe it's one of the other endings that I didn't see causing the problem? (I'm typing this up before reading anyone else's stated opinions on it - it's late and I need to go to bed soon, so getting my thoughts written up is more important. I can read others' tomorrow sometime.)

My overall opinion:
Well, the game certainly improved on the gameplay from 2, quite impressively in fact. I mentioned earlier that I was happy with the mod system, as well as with the vast variety of weapons available (my final count, with none of the Spectre weapons bought but all other weapons I found in shops bought, was 4 SMGs, 6 Pistols and Sniper Rifles, 7 Shotguns, 12 Assault Rifles [4 of which were bonuses/DLC]). I do like the new weight system, though I'm still concerned that it may make power-heavy classes like Adept overpowered - tossing out biotic combos every few seconds is huge, especially after I learned that Warp's new lingering effect allows it to start a biotic combo, which I can set off with Push. I played on Hardcore, and while the ending was quite difficult, challenging points were only intermittent throughout the rest of the game. Overall though, quite pleased with things on that end.

Story-wise, I think they did a surprisingly good job of portraying the events. I was worried there would be too many cases where the Reaper invasion felt trivialized throughout the game, but other than the question of how exactly anyone survived on Earth from the start to finish, I didn't get that. The events were suitably epic as well - I loved the Turian/Krogan/Salarian and Quarian/Geth portions of the game (Mordin is still best character, going out that way... I honestly don't believe I'll ever be able to pick the renegade options during that portion, simply because I will not let him die in vain), and the endgame battles were very well executed in this regard. The ending genuinely surprised me as well, mostly due to the lack of a "restore status quo" button, which I didn't think was possible. I'm not saying the ending was brilliant or anything - the catalyst and the options he presents you with come out of nowhere, and as I said above, the Crucible is still a big deus-ex-machina no matter how you slice it - but it's actually better than I was expecting, especially after hearing there was some big controversy over it.

Still, in the end, I think it's a lesser story than ME2. The big, epic events leave so much less time for character development, which is more interesting and enjoyable. Mordin's loyalty quest will remain my favorite part of the series, I think. I was actually quite disappointed in this regard with some of the companions - Ashley had almost nothing to say to me after recovering from her injuries (and I had really been hoping that ME3 would do for her what 2 did for Garrus and Tali), Vega was this game's Kaiden/Jacob, and even EDI I feel they could've done more with. Maybe Ash is better if you romanced her, but I only have one character who did, and he cheated on her with Jack, so... that'll be interesting.

I did like Lieutenant Traynor and Cortez though. Kelly-like characters who actually have more done with them than Kelly did, not bad. I'll have to romance Traynor with one of my characters - I think my Vanguard lacks a romance, actually.

So yeah. Overall, I thought it was a very good game. Not entirely sure how I'd stack it up compared to ME2, due to the conflict between improved gameplay but somewhat lesser story, but regardless I enjoyed it a lot.
...and now I have to pick out which of my characters to do next. Guess it should be a renegade, which would be either my male Infiltrator, female Vanguard, or my Fail Shep. Don't want to do Fail Shep just now though, I should give it time for everyone to figure out how all the various choices and ending stuff works, so I can properly go through with the worst possible results. Infiltrator or Vanguard though... hm...

Zevox

[Sir_Mopalot]

Yes yes, I know. Minor quibble, though. I'm still being punished for not buying the DLC.

Well, looking at it from a different direction, I would be disappointed if I didn't receive some sort of advantage for buying the Kazumi DLC. I understand how you feel, but how would you have given an advantage for owning the DLC that doesn't become a disadvantage for not having the DLC?

[Dhavaer]

(Aside: oddly, I'm still able to pick either paragon or renegade choices this far into the game, in spite of not doing any renegade actions besides a couple of interrupts. Guess my little imported renegade boost plus all those generic reputation boosts really added up.)

Paragon or renegade doesn't matter in ME3, you can always pick either option as long as you have sufficient reputation points regardless of what type they are.

[Sholos]

Okay, so after some efforts at soloing multiplayer to raise Galactic Readiness were proving waaaay too frustrating, I broke and actually used the multiplayer proper. Figured however much I may not care for the notion of shooter multiplayer, it had to be better than the torment of slowly leveling up solo. Thoughts on that:
[spoiler]Well, I was right, it wasn't bad. Even when my allies did little work*, just having other characters around to get shot at made things exponentially easier. Completed several games, took my Human Vanguard from level 8 to level 16, and got Galactic Readiness up to 78%. I was fortunate enough not to get anyone using a mic either, though there were some facepalm-worthy usernames.

Surprisingly, I was very often the MVP of the team, getting the most kills/xp (whichever that bar at the end measures), sometimes by quite a large margin. I'm not sure whether that's because of the Vanguard play style, if I'm actually somewhat good, or if everyone I was teamed with wasn't that good. I'm guessing some combination of the first and one of the latter two.

If you're playing on PC, add me on Origin if you want to play some more. Username of veebeebee. And I'd say both are possible. With my Engineer, I'm frequently at the top no matter what other people are playing because of the sheer ease of getting assists when tooled right. As a note, though, everyone gets the same XP, the sum of the point total. Same with credits.


Well, looking at it from a different direction, I would be disappointed if I didn't receive some sort of advantage for buying the Kazumi DLC. I understand how you feel, but how would you have given an advantage for owning the DLC that doesn't become a disadvantage for not having the DLC?

Easy, make a mission that doesn't even show up for those of us who haven't bought the DLC. I wouldn't even mind it if I found out about it, because it wouldn't affect my game. As it stands, I lose something because I didn't worship the money gods enough.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Except the "no eezo" thing, which was pulled out of the collective unconscious' arse. Seriously, where did that plot point come from? Certainly not the game.
I think it's based on interpreting something the Catalyst says in the worst possible light, that the energy released from the Crucible will "destroy the mass relays and much of the technology you rely upon," or something like that. They then take that to mean that the technology described is mass effect itself, the use of eezo to alter objects' mass, and the only way mass effect could truly be destroyed would be for eezo not to exist.

I don't think it's very convincing either, and more along the lines of just relay travel being gone at least temporarily.


Okay then, I have to ask: what exactly about the ending is causing such controversy?
The fact that Sheperd dies no matter what? Eh, I can live with that. Heroic sacrifice and all.

The lack of a "kill the Reapers but put everything back to normal" choice? I can live with that as well - actually that's something that I figured would make the game less interesting since I had assumed it was practically required, and it's by far the most boring way to end a galaxy-shaking conflict like this due to being way too ideal, so I've gotta say, bold move on Bioware's part to not include it. It actually makes your victory feel a little less deus-ex-machina-y, even though that's still pretty much what the Crucible is.

The lack of a sensible explanation for the Reapers' motives/what the catalyst kid was? I'm a little bothered by the latter, but not too much. Explaining the Reapers has always been something I didn't expect they could pull off, because the Reapers don't make sense no matter how you try to think about them. Someone had to have built them, since they're machines, but it makes no sense for anyone in their right mind to do so. I made that criticism way back after I played the first game, and I'm not surprised in the least that it turns out I was right about it. As such, I've kind of been resigned to that for a while.

Or is it something I'm missing entirely? I don't know, maybe it's one of the other endings that I didn't see causing the problem? (I'm typing this up before reading anyone else's stated opinions on it - it's late and I need to go to bed soon, so getting my thoughts written up is more important. I can read others' tomorrow sometime.)
I think it's a combination of several different opinions all shouting in unison "THIS SUCKS!"

One of the bigger camps is largely upset about one thing: the fact that no matter what choice you make, the relays are destroyed and the reason they're upset about this can be summed up in two words. Inferred Holocaust (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InferredHolocaust). Basically they believe that with the destruction of the relays galactic society is doomed anyway for a number of reasons. Worlds that are remote or climatologically unsuited for farming that depend on trade would starve, the majority of krogan males are apparently fighting in the battle, with no female combatants, so even with the genophage cure they're doomed to extinction because they can't get together to procreate, even if Earth is saved it's now not really suited for supporting life due to its heavy urbanization and the massive reduction of the population from the Reaper attack. Basically they feel that though the actual invasion has been stopped, everyone's going to die in the aftermath anyway because travel technology has been smashed back several centuries.

Another group, with similar reasoning, is upset about the Normandy crash. they believe that since the relays are gone, the Normandy doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of being rescued, so again, the character's we've come to know and love will most likely starve to death, especially Garrus and Tali, as we don't know if they'll be able to find dextro-DNA food. Even if they ARE able to find food then, they're still stuck there and if they want to populate the planet inbreeding is inevitable.

Other groups are upset that there isn't an option for both Shepard and the synthetics to survive. Contrary to what you've heard, Zevox, it IS possible for Shepard to barely survive the finale. You have to have a high Readiness rating (5,000 if you weren't able to save Anderson, 4,000 if you were), and you have to select Destruction. At the very end, you see Shepard's N7 armor rise a little as the Commander takes a breath. However, to get this ending, the geth and EDI must die. Both the Control and Synthesis endings result in Shepard's demise, but the synthetics live. So they're mad that they're forced into an "us or them" situation when you've spent time during this game and the other one working to build bridges between organic and synthetic.

Finally, there's another group that feels the main problem is that Shepard knuckles under when the Catalyst appears and meekly chooses the contrived choices it lays out for him/her. They want to be able to say "No! Organics and synthetics CAN make peace! We formed a coalition to fight you!" and then beat the Reapers some other way that, again, saves both Shepard AND the Geth/EDI. Because Shepard doesn't make a declaration of this nature, doesn't attempt to debate the Catalyst's arguments, people make the assumption that Shepard instead AGREES with the Catalyst. Another facet of this argument is that they feel like the Catalyst speaks for the entire Mass Effect universe, treating its statements about the inevitability of conflict between organic and synthetic as fact rather than opinion, and that this is a slap in the face to players who worked hard to make peace between the quarians and the geth.

And there are those who just find the Catalyst irritating on principle due to its condescending tone and the fact that it takes the form of the boy in the beginning, something many people, even myself, feel was contrived. Shepard's seen hundreds of people suffer and die at the hands of the Reapers and other baddies. Hell, Shepard may have BEEN in that kid's position if Colonist or Sole Survivor is taken. What makes this ONE boy so important to Shepard, a kid neither we nor Shepard learn the name of, yet apparently seeing him die is so traumatic to Shepard that he/she has nightmares about him and sees the Catalyst as him?

[Derthric]

Okay then, I have to ask: what exactly about the ending is causing such controversy?
The fact that Sheperd dies no matter what? Eh, I can live with that. Heroic sacrifice and all.

The lack of a "kill the Reapers but put everything back to normal" choice? I can live with that as well - actually that's something that I figured would make the game less interesting since I had assumed it was practically required, and it's by far the most boring way to end a galaxy-shaking conflict like this due to being way too ideal, so I've gotta say, bold move on Bioware's part to not include it. It actually makes your victory feel a little less deus-ex-machina-y, even though that's still pretty much what the Crucible is.

The lack of a sensible explanation for the Reapers' motives/what the catalyst kid was? I'm a little bothered by the latter, but not too much. Explaining the Reapers has always been something I didn't expect they could pull off, because the Reapers don't make sense no matter how you try to think about them. Someone had to have built them, since they're machines, but it makes no sense for anyone in their right mind to do so. I made that criticism way back after I played the first game, and I'm not surprised in the least that it turns out I was right about it. As such, I've kind of been resigned to that for a while.

Or is it something I'm missing entirely? I don't know, maybe it's one of the other endings that I didn't see causing the problem? (I'm typing this up before reading anyone else's stated opinions on it - it's late and I need to go to bed soon, so getting my thoughts written up is more important. I can read others' tomorrow sometime.)

Zevox



The other endings change the color of the relay explosions and the scene of soldiers fighting reapers on earth, you sacrifice shepard, citadel and relays go kablooey, either all synthetics die(destroy) or the reapers return to dark space(control). The Normandy always crashes, and your military strength alters if people get out of it or not, the catalysts dialogue, under a certain amount synthesis isn't an option, and over a certain amount after a destroy option has a 5 second teaser after the crew reveal but before the credits.

In its core concept the endings are ok, but as Leliel said, its execution is flawed. Personally the sacrifice of Shepard wasn't ideal but it would have worked. However leaving you, the player, hanging as to what exactly just happened to your ship and crew is something I know I find very personally frustrating.

It also comes down to what you feel is the central conflict of the story. Some have said the Synthetic vs Organic is all over the story and is absolutely central. Myself, I feel that the overall theme was Fate vs Free-will, this ending favors the Synthetic vs Organic concept. That's one reason why it doesn't work for me, it feels like its the finale of another story and not the one I was part of.

Another big complaint is that no matter what you do, the ending is the same. You can show up with 7000 Military Strength and you still just talk to the catalyst and pick which color to light the galaxy up with and your ship just crashes.

In the end, I feel the endings are less than the sum of their parts. The three decisions work, and the sacrifice of Shepard is not ideal but they could have made it work. However in the context of who and what the catalyst was and how the choices were presented it seems like a massive alteration of the tone and feel of the story, making the sacrifice feel out of place. Follow that up with a heaping pile of ambiguity about your squadmates and their fates, let alone the rest of the galaxy and you get the recipe for a fairly tepid ending. And tepid in contrast to the bolder more resounding finales of the previous two installments and you get the recipe for "frothing mouthed lynch mob"

As I think more about it I have come to appreciate the nature of the choices more, however I have also come to despise the Stargazer more. I feel it cheapens the idea of it being my shepard, and the little blurb about "continue writing the legend" feels insulting. This series is an emotional gauntlet of peaks and valleys that will send you crashing from one crowning moment to another leading up to the end and then the game says "just keep going little kids want more of grandpa's bedtime stories"

Honestly, if they had shown us what the outcome was aside from about 2 minutes of a light show and your crew crashing on random planet X, alot of this response might have been more muted.

[Zevox]

Paragon or renegade doesn't matter in ME3, you can always pick either option as long as you have sufficient reputation points regardless of what type they are.
Really? That's weird. Good for anyone wanting to play mixed alignment though I think.


If you're playing on PC,
I'm not, I'm a console player.

I think it's a combination of several different opinions all shouting in unison "THIS SUCKS!"

One of the bigger camps is largely upset about one thing: the fact that no matter what choice you make, the relays are destroyed and the reason they're upset about this can be summed up in two words. Inferred Holocaust (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InferredHolocaust). Basically they believe that with the destruction of the relays galactic society is doomed anyway for a number of reasons. Worlds that are remote or climatologically unsuited for farming that depend on trade would starve, the majority of krogan males are apparently fighting in the battle, with no female combatants, so even with the genophage cure they're doomed to extinction because they can't get together to procreate, even if Earth is saved it's now not really suited for supporting life due to its heavy urbanization and the massive reduction of the population from the Reaper attack. Basically they feel that though the actual invasion has been stopped, everyone's going to die in the aftermath anyway because travel technology has been smashed back several centuries.

Another group, with similar reasoning, is upset about the Normandy crash. they believe that since the relays are gone, the Normandy doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hell of being rescued, so again, the character's we've come to know and love will most likely starve to death, especially Garrus and Tali, as we don't know if they'll be able to find dextro-DNA food. Even if they ARE able to find food then, they're still stuck there and if they want to populate the planet inbreeding is inevitable.

Other groups are upset that there isn't an option for both Shepard and the synthetics to survive. Contrary to what you've heard, Zevox, it IS possible for Shepard to barely survive the finale. You have to have a high Readiness rating (5,000 if you weren't able to save Anderson, 4,000 if you were), and you have to select Destruction. At the very end, you see Shepard's N7 armor rise a little as the Commander takes a breath. However, to get this ending, the geth and EDI must die. Both the Control and Synthesis endings result in Shepard's demise, but the synthetics live. So they're mad that they're forced into an "us or them" situation when you've spent time during this game and the other one working to build bridges between organic and synthetic.

Finally, there's another group that feels the main problem is that Shepard knuckles under when the Catalyst appears and meekly chooses the contrived choices it lays out for him/her. They want to be able to say "No! Organics and synthetics CAN make peace! We formed a coalition to fight you!" and then beat the Reapers some other way that, again, saves both Shepard AND the Geth/EDI. Because Shepard doesn't make a declaration of this nature, doesn't attempt to debate the Catalyst's arguments, people make the assumption that Shepard instead AGREES with the Catalyst. Another facet of this argument is that they feel like the Catalyst speaks for the entire Mass Effect universe, treating its statements about the inevitability of conflict between organic and synthetic as fact rather than opinion, and that this is a slap in the face to players who worked hard to make peace between the quarians and the geth.

And there are those who just find the Catalyst irritating on principle due to its condescending tone and the fact that it takes the form of the boy in the beginning, something many people, even myself, feel was contrived. Shepard's seen hundreds of people suffer and die at the hands of the Reapers and other baddies. Hell, Shepard may have BEEN in that kid's position if Colonist or Sole Survivor is taken. What makes this ONE boy so important to Shepard, a kid neither we nor Shepard learn the name of, yet apparently seeing him die is so traumatic to Shepard that he/she has nightmares about him and sees the Catalyst as him?
Hm, interesting points, most of which I didn't think of last night. The "Inferred Holocaust" thing I can see as being an issue, though personally I'd simply assume that was not the case because I don't actually believe Bioware would intentionally make their entire story pointless that way. Same with the Normandy crash. Though I can at least agree that it would be better if the ending made that clear, especially since the matter of the Mass Relays' destruction was such a last-minute, come from nowhere for no apparent reason twist - that was probably the weakest aspect of the ending, and I don't understand why they did that.

As for Shepard and synthetics surviving, what I said about the general situation of Shepard dying pretty much applies. I don't mind having to sacrifice Shepard in the end, whatever the outcome.

As for the Catalyst, well, I agree that making it look like that kid was rather stupid (check the thoughts I typed as I was watching it). I thought the kid was a rather annoying thing for them to put such focus on at all. Similarly, I can see being annoyed that you can't argue with it, given it's clearly wrong in its assessments, and it should be easy to point to the Geth/Quarian peace to show that (or failing that, to EDI). I don't mind not being able to find some option beyond what it presents though, since it clearly knows what the Crucible can do better than you. Still, as I said in my previous post, the Catalyst is an issue simply for the way it comes right the heck out of nowhere for the sole purpose of presenting you with your ending options, I can agree with that. After the Mass Relays, that'd be the weakest part of the ending.
Zevox

[Aotrs Commander]

AOTRS: You can actually respec at any time by going to the medical bay. The first re-spec for any character is free, but after that it starts costing increasing amounts of credits.


Aotrs, if you're finding yourself running low on ammo, just put in an SMG with the ultralight materials mod and upgrading all your guns to level 5 (less weight, more ammo).

Both good to know, though I'll need to be a bit further along before I can make use of either.



Timed Missions
So, I'm given to understand there's time-related-missable missions, so if I want to complete everything - which I do - I will need to go back and scour the Citidel after every mission, or just main quest mission?

[Falgorn]

On the endings: I, essentially, feel how Zevox does.
The problem I have with it, however, is that BioWare could've done much better with execution, as others have said. This is the kind of ending I would've expected had their not been a delay.
I really believe that it's a good ending, all things considered. I don't get what the outcry is for the destruction of the relays, however; their destruction ensured what Shepard was fighting for: freedom from predestination. In destroying the relays, Shepard set the galaxy free from predestination. Sure, it's not the happy "golden" ending some of us wanted, but I respect BioWare more for making it this way. They wanted to create something different than a fairy tale; they wanted to make an epic. They took a risk, a risk I think they pulled off relatively well, and I respect them for it. The crash does leave some anxiety, especially because it was made to seem hopeful, but that's minor, at most. I didn't expect my squadmates to have a very happy ending, and they knew the risks going into the mission.
Also, the destruction of all eezo and eezo-based stuff? What? When was that mentioned?

[Name_Here]

On the End (Now that I've gotten to it):
I have to honestly say, I'm perfectly happy with it. All of it actually, even the Normandy crashing. Mass Effect was never going to have a fairy-tale ending, definitely not for my canon-Shep, and the ending I got was still loads betterthen what I expected to happen. So the Normandy crashed on a strange planet and you only see three people get out....so? I had Liara with me when I was charging the Citadal conduit and Harbinger landed. I thought for sure she'd been killed. It was a relief seeing she was still alive. The build-up was ideal, everyone seemed to realize and accept that Shepard probably wasn't going to make it, Liara especially (being the LI and all). I'm not sad shepard died, it has to happen sometimes in a story and Shepard died for something.

Something really special.

My problem with the ending is the fact that it is utterly bizarre. First off because of the Normandy turning tail and running like rabbits from the final battle. Why the hell were they doing that?

Second off Liara was with me on the final assault so when the hell did they have a chance to pick her up? There was no reason for them to have gone through the trouble of picking up any of the people on the ground before fleeing an ongoing battle.

Third why the hell were they pouring on so much speed that it burned out the power systems on the Normandy? Sensors should have told them that the cloud wasn't going to destroy the ship so Joker was just making the call to destroy the ship in order to stay ahead of the harmless wave. There is less than no reason for him to be acting like that.

The entire sequence makes no sense while you're watching it and it makes no sense when you think about it.


I even like the Stargazer at the end, you know why? Cause it shows that life survived without the relays, and that on that planet at least people still had hope. They looked up at the stars and knew there was other life out there, just waiting for them to find it. They didn't just want to travel the stars, they wanted to see the fantastic creatures told about in the Shepard's tale. They want to see a krogan, quarian, turian, etc. They want to see how their lives have changed and become unique. They had hope, they had drive, and they were striving to return to the stars.

Bull absolute bull. The stargazer is the worst way they could have shown any of that. It came out of nowhere cause the grandfather telling a story to his grandson had never been even a hinted at as a framing device. It was terribly terribly acted and it answered nothing. I wanted answers at the end not somebody telling me something I already knew that Shepard died a legend.

Shepard was always a legend.


Uncertainty my sweet arse, that was perhaps the most wonderfully bittersweet ending I've seen in a game. Am I anxious about what happened to my squad and all th people in it? Yes. But I don't let that sour the end of the game for me, because I know Bioware has things planned and I trust them to do right by me cause they haven't wronged me yet.

You serial? "Most wonderfully bittersweet ending"? Really? Did you not play Twilight Princess? I practically cried at the end of TP while at the end of this game I could only go "Really Bioware? This is the ending you went with?"

Look I can accept that ME3 is a great game. Really it was fantastic. But the ending was a complete mess. I was willing to go along with them but they screwed up with the ending sequences. They completely phoned it in.

[Avilan the Grey]

Really? That's weird. Good for anyone wanting to play mixed alignment though I think.


I'm not, I'm a console player.

Hm, interesting points, most of which I didn't think of last night. The "Inferred Holocaust" thing I can see as being an issue, though personally I'd simply assume that was not the case because I don't actually believe Bioware would intentionally make their entire story pointless that way. Same with the Normandy crash. Though I can at least agree that it would be better if the ending made that clear, especially since the matter of the Mass Relays' destruction was such a last-minute, come from nowhere for no apparent reason twist - that was probably the weakest aspect of the ending, and I don't understand why they did that.

As for Shepard and synthetics surviving, what I said about the general situation of Shepard dying pretty much applies. I don't mind having to sacrifice Shepard in the end, whatever the outcome.

As for the Catalyst, well, I agree that making it look like that kid was rather stupid (check the thoughts I typed as I was watching it). I thought the kid was a rather annoying thing for them to put such focus on at all. Similarly, I can see being annoyed that you can't argue with it, given it's clearly wrong in its assessments, and it should be easy to point to the Geth/Quarian peace to show that (or failing that, to EDI). I don't mind not being able to find some option beyond what it presents though, since it clearly knows what the Crucible can do better than you. Still, as I said in my previous post, the Catalyst is an issue simply for the way it comes right the heck out of nowhere for the sole purpose of presenting you with your ending options, I can agree with that. After the Mass Relays, that'd be the weakest part of the ending.
Zevox

Personally I feel that the endings, as they stand, could have worked if just the writing (as in the storytelling) would have been better AND the intent of the writers were clarified better. It seems, quite sadly, as if the writers are surprised with the Inferred Holocaust and Starving To Death arguments because in their mind these things clearly didn't occur (from the pointers I have received secondhand from the official forums). Even if they don't gives us full new endings, it seems they almost HAVE to give us a longer epilogue to explain their actual intentions with the ending.

[Falgorn]

My problem with the ending is the fact that it is utterly bizarre. First off because of the Normandy turning tail and running like rabbits from the final battle. Why the hell were they doing that?

Second off Liara was with me on the final assault so when the hell did they have a chance to pick her up? There was no reason for them to have gone through the trouble of picking up any of the people on the ground before fleeing an ongoing battle.

Third why the hell were they pouring on so much speed that it burned out the power systems on the Normandy? Sensors should have told them that the cloud wasn't going to destroy the ship so Joker was just making the call to destroy the ship in order to stay ahead of the harmless wave. There is less than no reason for him to be acting like that.

The entire sequence makes no sense while you're watching it and it makes no sense when you think about it. Bull absolute bull. The stargazer is the worst way they could have shown any of that. It came out of nowhere cause the grandfather telling a story to his grandson had never been even a hinted at as a framing device. It was terribly terribly acted and it answered nothing. I wanted answers at the end not somebody telling me something I already knew that Shepard died a legend.

Shepard was always a legend.

You serial? "Most wonderfully bittersweet ending"? Really? Did you not play Twilight Princess? I practically cried at the end of TP while at the end of this game I could only go "Really Bioware? This is the ending you went with?"

Look I can accept that ME3 is a great game. Really it was fantastic. But the ending was a complete mess. I was willing to go along with them but they screwed up with the ending sequences. They completely phoned it in.

I'd assume that the Normandy started getting the hell out of there when, I don't know, they watched a massive power spike destroy a mass relay, creating a powerful cloud that would destroy him? I don't know, that sounds like a good time to run, for me, at least.
Also, you do realize that this is a game, right? All of this is subjective, not objective. Calling someone else's opinion "bull" does nothing to further the discussion. In my opinion, the Stargazer sequence was the hopeful, "golden" thing that we were looking for, wasn't it? Showing that life did, in fact, go on after the destruction of the relays? That children still have dreams, aspirations, and life? All the things that Shepard fought for.
And, you cried at the end of Twilight Princess, but no emotion when you saw the character you (possibly) have spent hundreds of hours on sacrifice himself for the good of the galaxy?

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay, so after some efforts at soloing multiplayer to raise Galactic Readiness were proving waaaay too frustrating, I broke and actually used the multiplayer proper. Figured however much I may not care for the notion of shooter multiplayer, it had to be better than the torment of slowly leveling up solo. Thoughts on that:Zevox

How long did it take you to get the readiness up? Like you, I'm not fond of multiplayer (or shooter in general), and I'm loathe to do a C&C4 and grind the skirmish/multiplayer to up the readiness, but resigned to the fact I might have to, provided it's not going to take me days... Does a mission raise readiness in one sector, or all of them (i.e., would I have to grind to 70-odd percent in all, five or six regions or what?)

Also, I read somewhere that the readiness drops if you don't play every day... It that actually true? Because that's massively annoyingly fraktarded move on Bioware's part if it is.

[Mr.Moron]

Ok, I'm going to try and express my dissatisfaction with this ending a different way. Since this forum is filled with Role-Players I'm going to present this ending in the form of the last session to a long-standing campaign.



So. Imagine you've been playing the same game for about 5 years. You've taken some breaks off and on, but it's been a fairly smooth run. Your GM up to this point has been really great. He's respected your player decisions but kept things interesting enough where you don't feel like running too far off "The Rails". You may have thrown him for a loop a couple times like when you blew up the Council of Elders, or let the Hyper-Intelligent killer scorpion go when it promised to be good. However, overall it's been an easy-to-play game where the GM knows what to expect of the players and he knows what to expect of them.

Now the game up to this point has mostly focused on saving the world from this race of bizarre extra-dimensional beings. Sort of "horrors from beyond", with a metallic aesthetic. They're fairly straightforward villains you don't get much about their motivation except they pretty much want to destroy everything.

You've only rarely seen them, and fought them before only twice before. Once as the Boss of your low-level sessions (you had to raise an NPC army to fight it). Another time when you found an egg of one that had just hatched and had been feeding on a local city to grow. It was pretty tough, even though it was just an infant basically. You've been dealing with their lackeys and agents for the most part, but they've always been in the background.

You've fought a bunch of side villains and done some character quests for yourselves too.

So anyway a few months ago, the horrors were able to open the dark gates and flood the world. Your characters have spent those session fighting them, organizing resistance amongst the disparate feuding kingdoms and uniting the best wizards in the land to research the ancient ritual to banish them.

It all comes down to the final climatic battle, the ritual is finished and can only be completed at the tower of ancient kings in the capital of the biggest kingdom. You fight your way to the tower, the battle is bloody. You even lose some NPCs you'd really gotten attached to over the years. It'll be worth it though, if you can stop this and save the world.

They complete the ritual.. but it doesn't work! Lacking for ideas you rush into the Tower to see if something is wrong inside.

Then the GM describes this scene:
(Players: Dave, Lucy and Steve)

GM: There is a flash of light! You suddenly a see the ghost Giles.

Dave: Who is Giles?

GM: He was that human kid who died a few sessions ago. Remember I said Dave's characters was having dreams about being unable to save that village.

Dave: That was so stupid...

GM: The ghost says "I AM THE SPIRIT OF THE TOWER! I AM THE ONE WHO CONTROLS THE ONES FROM BEYOND..."

Lucy: Wait what? They're being controlled by someone? I though they wanted to...

GM: No. Told you they were being controlled. Remember what that vision said?

Steve: No.

Dave: I do. I thought guy was just speculating, it was like one sentence.

GM: HE IS THE SPIRIT THAT CONTROLS EVERYTHING!!!!!

Lucy: Fine

GM: Where was I, yes "I AM THE SPIRIT OF THE TOWER! I AM THE ONE WHO CONTROLS THE ONES FROM BEYOND. I HAVE SENT THEM TO DESTROY SO YOU DO NOT DESTROY THE WORLD"

Dave: What? How were we gonna destroy the world!?

GM: "YOU HAVE GIFTED INTELLIGENCE TO THE GOLEMS, THEY WILL ALWAYS GO BERSERK. THEY WILL RAIN.."

Lucy: Dude.. we already took care of the Golems. They were helping the wizards build the focus for the ritual, remember? It turned out it was just the wizard king being a stubborn jerk.

GM: Don't interrupt me! "THE GOLEMS WILL ALWAYS GO BERSERK"

Steve (playing an intelligent Golem since his last PC died): Uhm. I don't want to go berserk. How else am I supposed to bang that elf chick that flies the airship? GIGGITY GIGGITY.

Lucy: Not now steve...

GM: Stop Interrupting! "GOLEMS WILL ALWAYS GO BERSERK! THE HORRIBLE ONES ARE MY METHOD OF STOPPING THAT. IT MUST HAPPEN"

Dave (throwing his dice to the side in frustration): So what, we just did all this for nothing?

GM: The spirit says "NO YOU HAVE CHOICES"

Steve: I don't think that was in character.

GM: It doesn't matter! The spirit says "NO YOU HAVE CHOICES". There is a bright flash of light. a PIPE, a HOLE, and a LEVER appear before you.

Lucy: What?

Dave: What the hell are we supposed to do with these?

GM: If you'd let me finish! The spirit says "IF YOU DESTROY THE PIPE I WILL DESTROY ALL OF THE GOLEMS AND THE HORRORS. ALL MAGIC PURGED FROM THE WORLD, SO THE GOLEMS CANNOT BE MADE AGAIN FOR 10,000 YEARS"

Steve: I don't wan... (is cut off. The GM seems is very excited and has now jumped up on the table waving his arms

GM: IF YOU JUMP IN THE HOLE, ALL THINGS WILL FUSE WITH THE GOLEMS AND PEACE WILL REIGN. IF YOU PULL THE LEVER, YOU WILL BECOME ONE WITH HORRORS AND TAKE MY PLACE! (also that thing I said before about magic too with the 10,00 years)


Dave & Lucy: Uhhhh

GM: CHOOOSE!!!!

Steve: Pfft. I turn around leave.

GM: THE DOOR SUPER LOCKED! YOU CAN'T GET OUT. CHOOSE!!!


Exactly how satisfied with that last session if you were one of the players?

[Falgorn]

Over-simplification FTW!

But, since whining seems to be the name of the game around these parts, I'm gonna change it up a bit! Describe to me how you would want the game to end. How would you want a trilogy of this size and scope to end?
Actually, reading over this post, I sounded rude. Sorry, Mr. Moron, if I did offend you. And I think I need a break from discussing the endings.

[Name_Here]

I'd assume that the Normandy started getting the hell out of there when, I don't know, they watched a massive power spike destroy a mass relay, creating a powerful cloud that would destroy him? I don't know, that sounds like a good time to run, for me, at least.
Also, you do realize that this is a game, right? All of this is subjective, not objective. Calling someone else's opinion "bull" does nothing to further the discussion. In my opinion, the Stargazer sequence was the hopeful, "golden" thing that we were looking for, wasn't it? Showing that life did, in fact, go on after the destruction of the relays? That children still have dreams, aspirations, and life? All the things that Shepard fought for.
And, you cried at the end of Twilight Princess, but no emotion when you saw the character you (possibly) have spent hundreds of hours on sacrifice himself for the good of the galaxy?

Except in order for them to be that far away to see the mass relay explode they would have had to be running long before the crucible fired. It's just a complete mess of a sequence.

Your right I could have been a bit more... diplomatic in my strenuous objection. Really that was what you were looking for? Hell the entire sequence came out of nowhere answered nothing, gave no sense of closure and on top of it all was poorly written and acted. If it had given me anything I could understand somebody liking the Stargazer sequence but as it is? How could anybody like it?

And yeah I had no emotional response to 30 seconds of nonsensical action sequence, people who shouldn't have logically been on the Normandy getting out, my Shepard living and then listening to a grandfather agree to tell his grandson another story about "the Shepard."

[Aotrs Commander]

But, since whining seems to be the name of the game around these parts, I'm gonna change it up a bit! Describe to me how you would want the game to end. How would you want a trilogy of this size and scope to end?

Speaking purely hypothetically, since I'm trying to avoid spoilers for actual endings for ME 3, but what I would liked to have seen (and probably not what I'll get) would have been some sort of awesome last boss battle against [thing], in which like, the whole party participate (like all twenty of them or something, if only in several cut-scenes, being awesome, or multiple stages or something), a bit like the end of NWN2 (that battle was the ONLY part of the NWN2 ending they got right.)

And after Shepard and co kick the Reapers in the metaphorical nads, have some nice humorous last interactions and friendly banter between everyone as they wander off into the sunset.

Actually, that could have literally worked, they could have used the sunlight horizon line into one last title drop.

(Not as the only ending, mark you, just the absolute (maybe Paragon?) "best" ending, and end on an upbeat note; which I rather suspect I won't get!)

I thought ME 1's ending was quite good; I felt it satisfying enough that had ME2 never been made, I would have though it good enough. But generally, Bioware has never been very good at endings (and Oblivion tends to be even worse.) I don't think virtually any of the Bioware-style RPGs I've played have ever had especially good endings (not even in the "best endings"); some of them weren't bad, but not really "good". Apparently writting a happy ending is something that they struggle with (though DA:O and Jade Empire came sort of close...ish, I guess.) I dunno, I'd just like to see something with some of Bioware's trademark humour, rather than bittersuite grit - y'know, for a change. (I'm setting my expectations pretty low though...!)

One thing I always liked about C&C (sans C&C4, which was not, and Generals, which barely had any cutscenes to speak of) that on completing the game, one felt like one had actually achieved something, cheesey though it often was (and all the better for it.) Ultimate Alliance 1 had a good ending, I felt (and the characters doing the auditions for their voice overs was just the icing on the cake. The Watcher trying to do a Wolverine impression was gold.)

But the truth of it is, endings for games just seem very hard to pull off well (especially if they're done at the last minute, Obsidian, looking at you...)

[Mixt]

HALT! POLITICAL SCUM!

Boom headshot.
Goodbye Udina.

Man, that felt good.

[Falgorn]

Except in order for them to be that far away to see the mass relay explode they would have had to be running long before the crucible fired. It's just a complete mess of a sequence.

Your right I could have been a bit more... diplomatic in my strenuous objection. Really that was what you were looking for? Hell the entire sequence came out of nowhere answered nothing, gave no sense of closure and on top of it all was poorly written and acted. If it had given me anything I could understand somebody liking the Stargazer sequence but as it is? How could anybody like it?

And yeah I had no emotional response to 30 seconds of nonsensical action sequence, people who shouldn't have logically been on the Normandy getting out, my Shepard living and then listening to a grandfather agree to tell his grandson another story about "the Shepard."

I'm sorry that I can't counter your points well, because, honestly, your reasons for disliking the ending are definitely solid. I guess it's just a difference in taste. I mean, as I've said earlier, wait for BioWare's no-spoiler period to expire, and see if they put out a DLC/tie-in-novel/patch/anything about the ending.
Again, sorry I can't actually counter the points presented.

@Aotrs: I'm not sure how I can respond without spoilers, but I didn't want a ride off into the sunset ending.

[Mr.Moron]

I'm sorry that I can't counter your points well, because, honestly, your reasons for disliking the ending are definitely solid. I guess it's just a difference in taste. I mean, as I've said earlier, wait for BioWare's no-spoiler period to expire, and see if they put out a DLC/tie-in-novel/patch/anything about the ending.
Again, sorry I can't actually counter the points presented.

@Aotrs: I'm not sure how I can respond without spoilers, but I didn't want a ride off into the sunset ending.

I would have been satisfied with an ending where everyone dies and the reapers destroy all civilization for any number of reasons.

Things descend back into infighting. The reapers are ultimately just too powerful. The crucible was planted reaper tech like the relays (and I mean the actual reapers, not glow-boy) that purges organic life.

I don't need a ride-off-into-the-sunset ending. A valiant fight to the end that ends failure would have been good enough for me.

So long as in that failure we actually get to see how it's been caused by things already raised in the story.

We know that leaders in the Mass Effect universe are all almost suicidally short-sighted and stubborn. It would make sense for Shepard's fragile alliance to break down.

We know that the reapers plant tech. It'd make sense for them to plant a super-weapon to break the back of the resistance.

We know that no other cycle has resisted them. In fact Liara was sending message to future just because of that. Have the attack FAIL because the reapers really are too powerful. Make it so that you and like minded members of the united species have to work together to plant that message some place safe.

These are things that while almost depressing dark, would have followed through on elements already introduced in the story. It would have felt like you owned what happened. (well not so much with the belligerent leaders, but at least it would have been consistent).

This is a thing that pops all on it's own in the last minutes of the game, from nowhere. It has no connection to the rest of the story and resolves it with SPAAAACE MAGIC. That was just so unsatisfying.

[Aotrs Commander]

@Aotrs: I'm not sure how I can respond without spoilers, but I didn't want a ride off into the sunset ending.

It would have been nice if it it was one of the options. A real option for having different endings - which I don't think I've ever seen done - would be not just an ending graduated on how well you did (i.e. from "worst" to "best") but a different sort of ending (e.g. happy, pyrhrric, sad, gritty, 40K), i.e. a different tone, not just a graduation of events. Of couse, that would be still more complicated, and, as I've said, endings don't seem to a strong point (true of most games, I fear, not just RPGs.)

[Grif]

It would have been nice if it it was one of the options. A real option for having different endings - which I don't think I've ever seen done - would be not just an ending graduated on how well you did (i.e. from "worst" to "best") but a different sort of ending (e.g. happy, pyrhrric, sad, gritty, 40K), i.e. a different tone, not just a graduation of events. Of couse, that would be still more complicated, and, as I've said, endings don't seem to a strong point (true of most games, I fear, not just RPGs.)

...

I'm not sure how I can break the news to you then. :smallfrown:

[Aotrs Commander]

...

I'm not sure how I can break the news to you then. :smallfrown:

Like I said, it would have been what I would have liked, not at all what I'm expecting I'm probably going to get! (Previous Bioware track record withstanding + modern media culture of "gritty/depressing is teh ubers" and "screw over characters more than enemies" didn't exactly fill me with hope in the first place...!)

[Grif]

Like I said, it would have been what I would have liked, not at all what I'm expecting I'm probably going to get! (Previous Bioware track record withstanding + modern media culture of "gritty/depressing is teh ubers" and "screw over characters more than enemies" didn't exactly fill me with hope in the first place...!)

It's not even that... Anyway, I think it might be best you enjoy the game while it lasted. Because to explain why the ending was disliked would require massive spoilers.

And that is one understatement.

[Name_Here]

I'm sorry that I can't counter your points well, because, honestly, your reasons for disliking the ending are definitely solid. I guess it's just a difference in taste. I mean, as I've said earlier, wait for BioWare's no-spoiler period to expire, and see if they put out a DLC/tie-in-novel/patch/anything about the ending.
Again, sorry I can't actually counter the points presented.

@Aotrs: I'm not sure how I can respond without spoilers, but I didn't want a ride off into the sunset ending.

Guess we can really only agree to disagree on this and that's fine. It's just so weird that the one time in the game that Bioware decides to phone it in is at the climax of the entire trilogy. I will be waiting for the spoiler period to end but I doubt they will ever be able to salvage that ending. In the end they are just human and they made an utterly indefensible decision with that ending sequence.

[MCerberus]

I'm sorry that I can't counter your points well, because, honestly, your reasons for disliking the ending are definitely solid. I guess it's just a difference in taste. I mean, as I've said earlier, wait for BioWare's no-spoiler period to expire, and see if they put out a DLC/tie-in-novel/patch/anything about the ending.
Again, sorry I can't actually counter the points presented.

@Aotrs: I'm not sure how I can respond without spoilers, but I didn't want a ride off into the sunset ending.

My real issue is that the ending gets lumped together so that everything you did gets condensed down to 3 options, nothing else, then the previously elaborated on Normandy stupidity. The difference is that you get a third option if you fill up a bar.

Great, my Shep has, since the beginning, built up the galaxy for a better future. Allies pour in from everywhere. My fleet has enough Element Zero to build a damn planet out of. My armies are the best in galactic history, and HAVE already repelled a 'no-win' planetary invasion. The best hand-picked soldiers from that are Shep's vanguard.

Even if they fail, and the Crucible doesn't work, the best the Reapers can hope for is the next cycle's civilization curb-stomping whatever survivors "live" from the battle of Earth. Hammer punched through their enemies and required multiple dreadnaughts to break off from the space battle (which according to the codex would make them prime targets and Harbinger is likely to get a Thanax barrage right through him).

So you make it to the citadel barely, all good, injured, dramatic conclusion. And everyone's dead? Where's the citadel defense force I ensured has weapons and backup? Illusive man is here, expected his indoctrinated rear.

Shep and Anderson, going out like two heroes. Time to light this- AAAAND STARCHILD, invalidating everything you did and he refuses to listen to the guy who broke the cycle at all.

[Aotrs Commander]

It's not even that... Anyway, I think it might be best you enjoy the game while it lasted. Because to explain why the ending was disliked would require massive spoilers.

And that is one understatement.

Well, given the implications so far (and what I've gleaned from the game)

I will consider myself lucky if ANY of the characters survive, and am suitably prepared for eyeglow rolling when and if the magic-button-auto-win Prothean weapon magically wipes out the Reapers (or whatever) all at once or something.

Heck, at this point, I'm half-prepared for "Reapers win, everybody in the entire galaxy dies" or "whole galaxy explodinates", followed by a picture of David Gaider doing a trollface1...

As I say, I'm setting my standard so low, so hopefully I'll be pleasently surprised when the ending isn't quite as bad as I predict, but not very hopeful...! And at least forewarned by what people have been implying, not be quite so disappointed when it's crap.

Besides, if they get enough flak about however bad the ending is, Bioware may possibly pull a Bethesada and one of the later DLC might do something; not likely, but one never knows... Hope springs eternal...

(Alternatively, when I finally am allowed to conquer Earth, I will drag their unlivings souls out, and command them to make a better ending or something...)



1Actually, if that was actually the case, (and David Gaider did a good enough trollface) it would so funny that I'd actually let them off.

[Morty]

Impressions from Rannoch:
The sequence in the Geth Consensus was... interesting. No action, just pure narrative. And a lame excuse to avoid showing unmasked Quarians. I wonder how it works if you romance Tali in ME2 since, well, Shepard does see her without a mask on then.
The scene where you target the Reaper while it tries to fry you to a crisp was a pain in the ass. I had to switch the difficulty to Narrative.
Still, getting the Quarians and the Geth to stand down was satisfying and Legion's death was a powerful scene.

[Azaran]

I can not say a "Ride into the sunset"-ending would work for me.
But hey- last time checked Mass effect called itself a roleplaying game. You could influence the ending by how much you invested in the game AND how much would fit for your character.
I think I would choose a "worse ending" if the outcome is presented rewarding in form and drama
There are enough Failshep runs in the last games, so i might have a point.

[Triscuitable]

Impressions from Rannoch:
The sequence in the Geth Consensus was... interesting. No action, just pure narrative. And a lame excuse to avoid showing unmasked Quarians. I wonder how it works if you romance Tali in ME2 since, well, Shepard does see her without a mask on then.
The scene where you target the Reaper while it tries to fry you to a crisp was a pain in the ass. I had to switch the difficulty to Narrative.
Still, getting the Quarians and the Geth to stand down was satisfying and Legion's death was a powerful scene.

That mask is just a stock photo of a random black-haired woman. She doesn't even have the features Quarians have been described to have, i.e., small ears, a round, dot-like nose, and little to no hair.

[Toastkart]

Ok, finally beat the game last night. I keep fluctuating between disappointed and unsatisfied. My thoughts:

About 2/3rds of the way through the story, there were problems. Kai Leng wasn't threatening in any way, certainly not in the same way that Saren was. KL was a pushover, and each time I fought him it would have been an easy fight if it weren't for his plot shields. He didn't even touch me on Thessia, and at first I thought the fight at the Cerberus base glitched, because it ended so fast. I figured out that once his plot shield was over, Garrus sniped him through the head with the widow while I was fighting his mooks. It should never be the case that an antagonist like KL was less dangerous than the mooks he brought in.

The reapers move the citadel from where it is to earth? For one thing, how exactly do they do that? For another, if they could have outright controlled (or taken control of) the citadel any time they wanted to, why didn't they do that as soon as they arrived in the galaxy? That's their usual plan. Why forgo it if they could do so at any time?

Why exactly are we waging a ground war on earth to reach the citadel, when if we can break off from the main engagement why can't we fly around to the top of the citadel and enter from the open end? Ok, maybe the planetary guns prevent that. We took those out very quickly. Problem solved.

Illusive man learning to control Shepard I can kind of see, given how much tech went into rebuilding Shep, but how is he controlling Anderson? Also, I was severely disappointed that I didn't get to fight a reaper-fied illusive man (ala Saren in me1). Which sort of leads me to another thing. No ending boss battle. Kai Leng was the closest we got, and that was just pitiful. The actual final fight of the game was more frustrating than cool, especially since you have hardly any room to maneuver, much less actually succeed in taking out all of the enemies. And mysteriously, running over to the tank and pressing the button causes over a dozen reaper ground units to disappear.

The crucible. You know, as much as I love science fiction like Stargate and Star Trek (among others), I'm getting kind of tired of the 'the one technology to save the world at the last minute' formula. Combine that with the ally fetch quest aspect of the game, and the overall plot structure was fairly weak in comparison to the fantastic writing of the individual segments.

The catalyst. In me1, I really liked how inexplicable the reapers seemed. I thought that was pulled off very well. In me2, I was a little concerned that the purpose of the reapers was only to create more reapers, but it wasn't a 100% sure conclusion so that was ok, too. Then in me3 I learn that the purpose of the reapers is because synthetic life always turns on organic life that created it. That's it? Where have I heard that before? That the reapers are doing so in order to prevent the destruction of all advanced life through turning them into reapers is an interesting detail, but not enough of one to save that motivation. There was real potential for the reapers to have an interesting and compelling motivation. This was neither of those.

The catalyst. Flawed premises lead to a flawed conclusion, on the part of the catalyst. Even if that weren't the case, the catalyst's explanation doesn't really explain anything. Even more, the reapers went from being this looming, terrible purpose to having no agency in less than a minute. For the finale of an otherwise incredible series, the catalyst raised more questions than he answered. What event started it all? How is becoming reapers better than the normal course of evolution? If peace were such a high value ideal for the catalyst (and why would he mention it at all otherwise?) then why design the reapers to destroy rather than guide benevolently? The reapers already guide the technological development of the galaxy so that they can always have an edge and so that no species goes too far off the path. But why make it destructive and violent if they could have made it benign and enlightening? They already have mind control powers in the form of indoctrination. Too many questions.

The endings. You know, I don't mind there being several endings. I don't even mind that a few of them might lead to Shepard's death, in failure or in sacrifice, but that all of them end in Shepard's death (the last scene where we see him start to breath notwithstanding, and in my opinion that doesn't count anyway) is a downer. No, I don't want a 'make everything the way it was' button. I want at least one meet the challenge and succeed ending. I don't feel there was one here.

Destroying the reapers, and thus also the geth and the mass relays, is, as several of you have pointed out, an inferred holocaust. Even if it weren't, and given that conventional FTL is merely slower than mass relays, it would still take most of someone's life to reach another inhabited cluster. The galaxy was united only to be forced into a sort of isolation? Shepard's possibly alive at least.

Controlling the reapers, and still destroying the mass relays. Well, at face value, who would choose this? It was a bad idea when The Illusive Man wanted to do it, it's a bad idea now. The threat of indoctrination alone should be enough to avoid this option.

Synthesis, and apparently still destroying the mass relays. Not too sure what to think of this one. On the one hand, it sounds good in theory, but if the catalyst's motivation was real, shouldn't this have been the goal from the start?

The Normandy crashing. I'm not gonna say too much about this one, as it's been discussed to death. But yeah, way too many questions. How/why did they go down to earth to pick up the folks who were on the planet, then hightail it to the mass relay before (or while it was being) it was destroyed?

The kid, the dream sequences, and glow-boy. It was so obvious, even from when that scene was revealed in one of the early trailers, that the kid was supposed to be emotionally important. Him dying and the dream sequences just pushed it so hard, like someone was standing next to me while I played shouting "drama and emotional trauma" in my ear every time it came up. It was so forced and so artless that I resent the writers trying to make me feel for this kid.

To sum up: I thoroughly enjoyed playing the game. I don't hate the endings. I think, all told, I'm disappointed and unsatisfied with the ending and general arc of the story, and certain details. I think I've been critical of it without being hateful. I think there were a lot of things that were lacking, such as no confrontation with Harbinger (in the same way there was with Sovereign). In a series that purported to be about player choice and consequences, the choices had surprisingly little effect on things. Sure, a lot of little things did, but a lot of big things didn't. And then the series ends when god says he created the reapers to preserve life. I'm not even sure I want to get into how suddenly making the game a big predestination scheme totally betrays the choice driven nature of the narrative and smacks of poor writing, mostly because I don't think I could articulate it without descending into gibberish.

When all is said and done, I did still enjoy the game, for all my criticism. There was a lot of potential for the game to be great, but I don't think it made it.

[Psyren]

Beating the you-know-what on Rannoch:
It's actually really easy once you figure it out. It's a lot like the Hammer of Dawn weapon from Gears of War, or the LTD satellite laser from Resident Evil 5 - you hold the painter on the target with your fire button until the beams converge and it can be blasted from orbit.

The trick of course is the reaper's laser, which will instantly fry you. But it moves laterally very slowly. So simply start at one side of your little cliff area and begin painting, and when the reaper starts firing just run to the other side. Listen for the laser to whiz by behind you then turn and start painting again. Unlike the similar weapons I mentioned, you don't lose any progress by moving, so you can paint and run in bursts until the reaper is hit.

Each time it's hit it moves a little closer to you, but the tactic doesn't change. You have plenty of time to get away each time.

For the last hit the game becomes very slow motion, at which point you just fire without trying to dodge (as the reaper is so close you have no room to move aside anyway.) Then it dies and you go to the cutscene.

[Aotrs Commander]

Because this thread seems a bit too depressing:


Aotrs Entirely Hypothetical Awesome ME Trilogy Endings No.1

After a stupidly awesome fight sequence, the leader of the Reapers has been captured, and all tied up with giant space-cables.

Shepard: Now, let's see who he really is!

*pulls off giant rubber mask*

All (agast): Turian Councillor Sparatus!?

Turian Councillor Sparatus: Ah yes! And I would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling squadmates and your stupid Quarian!

Tali: Ehee-hehee! Tali-Zorah-vasNorman-Ddyyyy!

Garrus (undertone): Can someone please get her to stop doing that?

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Because this thread seems a bit too depressing:


Aotrs Entirely Hypothetical Awesome ME Trilogy Endings No.1

After a stupidly awesome fight sequence, the leader of the Reapers has been captured, and all tied up with giant space-cables.

Shepard: Now, let's see who he really is!

*pulls off giant rubber mask*

All (agast): Turian Councillor Sparatus!?

Turian Councillor Sparatus: Ah yes! And I would have got away with it too, if it wasn't for you meddling squadmates and your stupid Quarian!

Tali: Ehee-hehee! Tali-Zorah-vasNorman-Dy!

Garrus (undertone): Can someone please get her to stop doing that?
:smalleek: ...GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :smallbiggrin:

Thanks, Commander, I needed that.

Here's more!

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/046/9/b/moon_effect_by_seriojainc-d4pttuy.jpg

[Grif]

I shall one up ya with ponies. (Don't worry, I don't plan to make a habit of this.)

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/066/f/d/luna_effect_3_by_johnjoseco-d4s024g.jpg

[Callos_DeTerran]

On Ending Dissatisfaction:
This is about the Catalyst and why it shows up as the kid. It spoils little else really.

Remember back in 2 when Mordin describes mailing his nephew to reduce the scale of the battle to the Collectors? Turning it from a fight for the galaxy into a fight to save his nephew because he knew his nephem and it'd give him focus?

The Catalyst appearing as that child is the same concept, except in reverse. Shepard puts that kid as the face of all the people who have died during the Reaper War, of all the people s/he couldn't save. S/He puts a face to them through that child, which is why he haunts Shepard in his/her dreams. And I know what you're all thinking, why doesn't the Catalyst show up as someone else then that's died during the course of the game? Like Jenkins, the squad-mate who died on Virmire, Anderson, or etc. etc.

Simple (to me anyway, though it's going to be hard to explain), because Shepard feels guilty about not being able to save that kid and, by extension, everyone else on Earth. For a massive part, the people of earth aren't trained Alliance marines, soldiers, navy members, etc. They didn't sign up for this war, they don't want it, and they shouldn't be dying at all because Shepard has tried their damndest to stop it. By comparison, Shepard can't take the burden of guilt for the other more important members of the party because for a large part...they chose this life, they knew the risks, and they knew they might die. They were soldiers and fighters, through and through. They knew they could die in battle when they signed up, were trained soldiers, and could put up a fight. Even if they didn't know the Reapers were coming, that doesn't matter, they could have died just as easily fighting the...krogan. Or rachni. Or geth. It's part of the soldier life-style.

To quote another game though, 'You never get used to seeing dead civilians'. Especially not in the numbers the Reapers are inflicting. And, like it or not, that kid's face was the last one Shepard saw before abandoning Earth to be harvested while they play inter-galatic peacekeeper. So instead of saving a nephew instead of the galaxy to drive a salarian to heights of heroism, Shepard has a kid's face for all the people s/he's left behind on earth or gotten killed period. The kid himself likely doesn't mean anything (much) to Shepard in the face of the big picture, it's what he represents.

As for the other parts of the ending that are also being talked to death...I'm not getting into it. I like a good argument, but this has the distinct potential to become less friendly then that, especially since a large part of it is opinion, and I want no part in that.

[nhbdy]

I personally didn't mind the endings, with the exception of the kid showing up. At that point I was simply unimpressed that the reapers were being controlled by an immature AI-godthing(?) that believed that in order to save organic life it had to be converted into synthetic life, how does that make any sense? If I were to end it, I would have had shepard access the console after dealing with the illusive man (which I actually liked the conversation with him, it showed his belief remained through indoctrination that he was helping, even if it made him physically incapable of doing so) and having shepard analyze the crucible (through holograms or something) and come to the conclusion that while the crucible would be able to stop the reapers the side effects are devastating, and then present the choices. Or possibly have a disembodied voice be the citadel instead of the kid, really that was the only part that bugged me.

On the normandy crashing, I accept it, no one in that war was coming out happy at all, in fact I interpreted that shepard was essentially fighting for future races to live free...

[Calemyr]

Here's what really annoys me about the fan reaction to this game:
The entire game is a gorgeous love letter to the fans. The entire expanse of it is your previous decisions coming out of the woodwork to either bite you in the ass or stand at your back. The scale is epic, the tone is dire, the entire freaking game is the climax of the story, rather than just the last act. Yet the last act manages to be even bigger and badder, with a grand final conflict where three epic scale determinators must decide the fate of the galaxy...

It's only then, as the resolve of the last one standing breaks down, that the story falters. Avina comes out of nowhere to give you a choose your own ending situation, with each ending having a good result but some horrible unconsidered consequences. Fridge horror runs rampant as those consequences come to mind. But they are never addressed. Instead, the only comfort you are given is that life continues, and the name of the Shepard lasts even as the worlds linger in their new isolation.

That's what I hate about this. The game kicks nine kinds of buttock, but the last five minutes of material seem to invalidate it entirely in the eyes of fans.


Non-spoilered version: The game itself is absolutely incredible and the perfect capper to the trilogy. The story is rich and packed to the gills with callbacks, tough decisions, and epic reaches for the fabled third option. I feel Bioware should be very proud of their work. But once the gameplay ends, once the final boss lies dead and the ending truly begins, the game falls flat.

Would I buy a "Broken Steel" DLC for this game? Hell yes. The ending is the only part of this thing that isn't a freaking masterpiece. If they included a way to "fix it", this would be a game the likes of which I haven't seen in the last ten years. Most of all, however, we need an epilogue, we need to know what actually happens to the people we've come to care about over the course of the trilogy. I don't care if it's just a slideshow of "X did this, Y did that" such as you see in Fallout New Vegas. There is simply no closure, and there bloody well needs to be.

[nhbdy]

Here's what really annoys me about the fan reaction to this game:
The entire game is a gorgeous love letter to the fans. The entire expanse of it is your previous decisions coming out of the woodwork to either bite you in the ass or stand at your back. The scale is epic, the tone is dire, the entire freaking game is the climax of the story, rather than just the last act. Yet the last act manages to be even bigger and badder, with a grand final conflict where three epic scale determinators must decide the fate of the galaxy...

It's only then, as the resolve of the last one standing breaks down, that the story falters. Avina comes out of nowhere to give you a choose your own ending situation, with each ending having a good result but some horrible unconsidered consequences. Fridge horror runs rampant as those consequences come to mind. But they are never addressed. Instead, the only comfort you are given is that life continues, and the name of the Shepard lasts even as the worlds linger in their new isolation.

That's what I hate about this. The game kicks nine kinds of buttock, but the last five minutes of material seem to invalidate it entirely in the eyes of fans.


Non-spoilered version: The game itself is absolutely incredible and the perfect capper to the trilogy. The story is rich and packed to the gills with callbacks, tough decisions, and epic reaches for the fabled third option. I feel Bioware should be very proud of their work. But once the gameplay ends, once the final boss lies dead and the ending truly begins, the game falls flat.

Would I buy a "Broken Steel" DLC for this game? Hell yes. The ending is the only part of this thing that isn't a freaking masterpiece. If they included a way to "fix it", this would be a game the likes of which I haven't seen in the last ten years. Most of all, however, we need an epilogue, we need to know what actually happens to the people we've come to care about over the course of the trilogy. I don't care if it's just a slideshow of "X did this, Y did that" such as you see in Fallout New Vegas. There is simply no closure, and there bloody well needs to be.
You just won the thread... this is way better than any explanation or argument that I can come up with.

[Derthric]

About Conrad
This is apparently the only part of the game I missed, anyone know where/when to find the eager beaver?

[Grif]

Here's what really annoys me about the fan reaction to this game:
The entire game is a gorgeous love letter to the fans. The entire expanse of it is your previous decisions coming out of the woodwork to either bite you in the ass or stand at your back. The scale is epic, the tone is dire, the entire freaking game is the climax of the story, rather than just the last act. Yet the last act manages to be even bigger and badder, with a grand final conflict where three epic scale determinators must decide the fate of the galaxy...

It's only then, as the resolve of the last one standing breaks down, that the story falters. Avina comes out of nowhere to give you a choose your own ending situation, with each ending having a good result but some horrible unconsidered consequences. Fridge horror runs rampant as those consequences come to mind. But they are never addressed. Instead, the only comfort you are given is that life continues, and the name of the Shepard lasts even as the worlds linger in their new isolation.

That's what I hate about this. The game kicks nine kinds of buttock, but the last five minutes of material seem to invalidate it entirely in the eyes of fans.


Non-spoilered version: The game itself is absolutely incredible and the perfect capper to the trilogy. The story is rich and packed to the gills with callbacks, tough decisions, and epic reaches for the fabled third option. I feel Bioware should be very proud of their work. But once the gameplay ends, once the final boss lies dead and the ending truly begins, the game falls flat.

Would I buy a "Broken Steel" DLC for this game? Hell yes. The ending is the only part of this thing that isn't a freaking masterpiece. If they included a way to "fix it", this would be a game the likes of which I haven't seen in the last ten years. Most of all, however, we need an epilogue, we need to know what actually happens to the people we've come to care about over the course of the trilogy. I don't care if it's just a slideshow of "X did this, Y did that" such as you see in Fallout New Vegas. There is simply no closure, and there bloody well needs to be.

That might precisely why the outrage is so loud for Mass Effect 3. Because the game was so brilliant, it did not deserve such a shoddy ending. The ending did not do what is supposed to be the end to the entire series of Shepard's story any justice.

Think about it. If this were some two-bit generic TPS game with no hype to back it up, it would have been 'meh' and the game forgotten within two weeks. Because this is the Mass Effect, fans are literally angry and depressed that the ending gave no closure, shot up more holes in the plot in fifteen minutes of cinematics than hundreds of hours of gameplay, and tried to insert a hamfisted philosophical tone where none was needed. (It certainly wasn't hinted at in Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2.)

Honestly, the more I looked at the ending video (and the Space Jesus sequence), the more it looked like Bioware just ran out of time and pushed out whatever they had done out of the door. There is no other explanation for this mess. It's really a pity. Mass Effect 3 could have won GOTY 2012 hands down. Now, it's a toss up really.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I personally didn't mind the endings, with the exception of the kid showing up. At that point I was simply unimpressed that the reapers were being controlled by an immature AI-godthing(?) that believed that in order to save organic life it had to be converted into synthetic life, how does that make any sense? If I were to end it, I would have had shepard access the console after dealing with the illusive man (which I actually liked the conversation with him, it showed his belief remained through indoctrination that he was helping, even if it made him physically incapable of doing so) and having shepard analyze the crucible (through holograms or something) and come to the conclusion that while the crucible would be able to stop the reapers the side effects are devastating, and then present the choices. Or possibly have a disembodied voice be the citadel instead of the kid, really that was the only part that bugged me.

This actually brings up a question of my own, where are people getting the AI-godthing from? What does Avina do that's particularly god-like? All it does is explain the Reapers (barely), it's reasons, and present the options...I'm not seeing the god-like power here.

Also, on the Reaper's 'salvation through destruction' I can see the logic of how a synthetic would have come to that conclusion..even if I don't agree with it myself. Avina's whole argument is based around the fact that organic life can't/won't accept synthetic life when(not if, when) it appears and try to destroy it (there's evidence here even in Mass Effect, look at the Geth and EDI), to which the synthetic naturally responds by defending itself. The problem is...Avina believes it's a toss-up if the synthetic life will let the creators go and/or decide to coexist(the geth) or go all Sky-net and try to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Or if the organics will give synthetic life a choice in the matter at all (again, see the quarians and the geth). Which is bad, since Avina seems to have a pointed interest in keeping life alive.

So Avina's solution is to pre-empt this cycle by creating the Reapers. The Reapers are synthetics, sure, and intelligent...but they also have a purpose. They 'harvest' the galaxy of space-faring life every new cycle which seems to be timed so it happens BEFORE synthetic life is created in earnest. Sure, they kill all space-faring life, but they preserve the species lost by turning them into Reapers. Like a really f***ed up ark. That way life is given a chance to flourish, but before it has a chance to get itself killed, it's harvested by a species of synthetics that actually have a vested interest in keeping life alive, just not the space-faring life. Primitive life gets it's turn the next cycle before the current cycle doesn't get a chance to kill it off accidentally. Salvation through destruction.

Like I said, I don't agree with the reasoning, but I can see how Avina came to that conclusion. It's a very bleak and pessimistic conclusion that doesn't really take into account how organic life could adapt and change, but...Avina isn't organic life and it's not going to see the world the same way that we and Shepard will. Hell, EDI's trying to learn how to be more human on purpose and she still doesn't get it. What hope does Avina have, who's already come up with a logical seeming conclusion?

Keep in mind, the synthesis ending isn't a gurantee. I don't know the cut-off, but it's apparently very possible the Crucible never gets a chance to activate so Avina is never given the chance to reconsider it's actions.

...To be honest, it really seems like Avina really is just a VI that's following the instructions programmed into it and ended up creating AI. Not much, but a little bit.

[Calemyr]

About Conrad
This is apparently the only part of the game I missed, anyone know where/when to find the eager beaver?

Conrad's in the shanty town on the Citadel docks (D2). I think you have to hear a doctor in the batarian "ward" of the docks, who complains about a broken medigel stations and a propaganda spouting madman. Just activate all the medigel stations and then he should be standing opposite the entrance to the docs, calling all and sundry to consider that if Cerberus was good enough for Shepard, it's good enough for anybody. Yeah, that's Conrad. Always full of moxy and charging headlong into the fray armed with yesterday's news.

[Derthric]

Conrad's in the shanty town on the Citadel docks (D2). I think you have to hear a doctor in the batarian "ward" of the docks, who complains about a broken medigel stations and a propaganda spouting madman. Just activate all the medigel stations and then he should be standing opposite the entrance to the docs, calling all and sundry to consider that if Cerberus was good enough for Shepard, it's good enough for anybody. Yeah, that's Conrad. Always full of moxy and charging headlong into the fray armed with yesterday's news.

I'm gonna have to put another round through his foot.....thanks

[Avilan the Grey]

Not a spoiler:
http://filesmelt.com/dl/Naamloos59.png

Now...
They have also said that DON'T DELETE YOUR ME3 SAVES!

[Callos_DeTerran]

Here's a question for people on war assets that's...not really a spoiler. I don't think it is anyway, not until the end.

What bonus did you directly get for destroying the Collector base? Did you get some Ex-Cerberus assets? TIM being less crazy? What?

Cause, in a moment of survival instincts, my canon-Shep gave the base to TIM and in 3

You recover the 'brain' of the deactivated proto-reaper and, proving Cerberus shouldn't do SCIENCE, EVER, are able to safely use it to improve the Cruicible by a whopping 150 points (with 50% Galactic Readiness)....That's more then some fleets give you.

Is this really...a Renegade decision that works out well for Shepard? Or do you get more for destroying it?

[nhbdy]

This actually brings up a question of my own, where are people getting the AI-godthing from? What does Avina do that's particularly god-like? All it does is explain the Reapers (barely), it's reasons, and present the options...I'm not seeing the god-like power here.

Also, on the Reaper's 'salvation through destruction' I can see the logic of how a synthetic would have come to that conclusion..even if I don't agree with it myself. Avina's whole argument is based around the fact that organic life can't/won't accept synthetic life when(not if, when) it appears and try to destroy it (there's evidence here even in Mass Effect, look at the Geth and EDI), to which the synthetic naturally responds by defending itself. The problem is...Avina believes it's a toss-up if the synthetic life will let the creators go and/or decide to coexist(the geth) or go all Sky-net and try to wipe out all life in the galaxy. Or if the organics will give synthetic life a choice in the matter at all (again, see the quarians and the geth). Which is bad, since Avina seems to have a pointed interest in keeping life alive.

So Avina's solution is to pre-empt this cycle by creating the Reapers. The Reapers are synthetics, sure, and intelligent...but they also have a purpose. They 'harvest' the galaxy of space-faring life every new cycle which seems to be timed so it happens BEFORE synthetic life is created in earnest. Sure, they kill all space-faring life, but they preserve the species lost by turning them into Reapers. Like a really f***ed up ark. That way life is given a chance to flourish, but before it has a chance to get itself killed, it's harvested by a species of synthetics that actually have a vested interest in keeping life alive, just not the space-faring life. Primitive life gets it's turn the next cycle before the current cycle doesn't get a chance to kill it off accidentally. Salvation through destruction.

Like I said, I don't agree with the reasoning, but I can see how Avina came to that conclusion. It's a very bleak and pessimistic conclusion that doesn't really take into account how organic life could adapt and change, but...Avina isn't organic life and it's not going to see the world the same way that we and Shepard will. Hell, EDI's trying to learn how to be more human on purpose and she still doesn't get it. What hope does Avina have, who's already come up with a logical seeming conclusion?

Keep in mind, the synthesis ending isn't a gurantee. I don't know the cut-off, but it's apparently very possible the Crucible never gets a chance to activate so Avina is never given the chance to reconsider it's actions.

...To be honest, it really seems like Avina really is just a VI that's following the instructions programmed into it and ended up creating AI. Not much, but a little bit.
You raised some good points, the whole god thing impression comes from the fact that "Avina" apparently knows about all of it, and is in control of all of it, granted it's not the best line of reasoning but for many the impression is definitely there.

On the reasoning, I remember the explanation given, but it just doesn't follow fundamental logic. Destroying something and using it's corpses (or genetic material or whatever) in creating a mimicry of it in order to perpetuate the cycle simply is not any form of preservation past the most basic of "we have archived your genes" (or something similar). Also one of the defining aspects of organic life is our ability to adapt, I have a hard time accepting that anything that wanted to study organic life, to determine how to best deal with it, could have overlooked that detail. I can understand it's argument, but I cannot see how it could have been a benevolent solution if the argument was considered from the receiving end, it's just like the geth being controlled by the reapers, they don't want that, they wish to determine their own fates and preserve themselves. So I doubt it would even appeal to a synthetic lifebase to be "saved" through a reaper invasion.

All in all I loved the game, and I think the ending was fairly good, it's just Avina and it's reasoning that really bothers me.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Here's a question for people on war assets that's...not really a spoiler. I don't think it is anyway, not until the end.

What bonus did you directly get for destroying the Collector base? Did you get some Ex-Cerberus assets? TIM being less crazy? What?

Cause, in a moment of survival instincts, my canon-Shep gave the base to TIM and in 3

You recover the 'brain' of the deactivated proto-reaper and, proving Cerberus shouldn't do SCIENCE, EVER, are able to safely use it to improve the Cruicible by a whopping 150 points (with 50% Galactic Readiness)....That's more then some fleets give you.

Is this really...a Renegade decision that works out well for Shepard? Or do you get more for destroying it?
It influences what kinds of endings you get. With the "brain" it takes less Galactic Readiness to gain access to better versions of the "Control" ending. If you destroyed the base, you instead obtain the Reaper's "Heart" and require less GR to get better versions of the "Destruction" Ending.

[Faryn]

For those unsatisfied with the ending of ME3


http://www.facebook.com/DemandABetterEndingToMassEffect3


Doubt it will help much, but at least its very nice to see how people band together for their games

Massives Spoilers on that Page ...!

[MCerberus]

About Conrad
This is apparently the only part of the game I missed, anyone know where/when to find the eager beaver?

Conrad:
If you went all Paragon on Conrad previous, he turns out to be trying to stop a Cerberus mole. He then does the dramatic leap into the path of a bullet thing.

For me I saved an NPC in ME1 that was undercover with CSec. She already had the gun disabled. Conrad then goes off with her and fall in love. Cue Shep being profoundly confused.

[Psyren]

About Conrad
This is apparently the only part of the game I missed, anyone know where/when to find the eager beaver?

I ran into him on the Citadel, the... second or third time I was there. He approached me as part of a sidequest to track down a Cerberus mole in the refugee area or something. There's a bonus here for the Xbox and PC players, because how the encounter plays out depends on stuff you did in ME1.

[Derthric]

I ran into him on the Citadel, the... second or third time I was there. He approached me as part of a sidequest to track down a Cerberus mole in the refugee area or something. There's a bonus here for the Xbox and PC players, because how the encounter plays out depends on stuff you did in ME1.

Man I am kicking myself for missing him, I went back to the Citadel after each and every mission, even if it didn't make sense. Like between the timed missions on Rannoch! *hangs head in shame*


Not a spoiler:
http://filesmelt.com/dl/Naamloos59.png

Now...
They have also said that DON'T DELETE YOUR ME3 SAVES!

Interesting response, I cannot wait till the silent period is over and we can figure out what else they have. But this sort of like what anti-DLC people always rant about, using DLC to publish an "incomplete game" to get more money. I don't mind so long as it of quality, but I see the next storm coming.

[Falgorn]

Not a spoiler:
http://filesmelt.com/dl/Naamloos59.png

Now...
They have also said that DON'T DELETE YOUR ME3 SAVES!

AWESOME.
For all we know, this could be a brilliant gambit on BioWare's part.

[Aotrs Commander]

So, like Zevox, I dug my toe into the multiplayer, something I swore I'd never do...

And...eh. I suppose in the end it's no more ardous than level grinding in Final Fantasy or whathave you (I mean, I completed FFVII - AND spent all the time doing the tedious Draw stuff, so...!) When I'm ready to complete the game, it might take me two-three hours to get up high enough (I did, like five full missions on the same map against the same enemies, and it took about an hour-and-a-half and got me to 61% readiness). But, yeah... I suppose it could be worse. (Even though my contibution is mainly to run stumble around like an idiot and flail aimless away with my sniper rifle, and get shot when trying to medic everyone else...)

[Corvus]

So after scrimping and saving for credits in MP I was finally able to buy a Spectre pack - and got the Krogan Sentinel.

Tried it out a bit and thought 'eh, tough but nothing special'. Tried it out a bit more and changed that to 'this isn't too bad'. Then tried it a bit more and thought 'this is freaking awesome, running around bitch slapping everything'.

I built it with zero points in incinerate and planning on maxing everything else. Focus on health/shields in rage, damage reduction in tech armour, melee boosts otherwise, and both burst increases in lift grenades for an 8m burst.

Focus fire will still bring you down, but you can take hits like no one else and once you get your rage going you are a wrecking ball, charging around smashing things in melee. It is only the real heavies you can't one shot. Cerberus engineers, Nemesis and turrets all die in one charge.

Haven't tried out silver yet as I still haven't found a really good shotgun, but I carry the best I currently have and a widow - with no powers to worry about, cooldowns don't matter.

[Morty]

I was on a roll today. I finished Thessia... and I'm pretty pissed. :smallannoyed:
Kai Leng is a perfect example of an aggravating, "I'm so cool the reality warps around me" villain. And the fight with him on Thessia was just pure BS. First off, how the hell does he recharge his shields while under fire? Second, why does Shepard just fire at his barrier like an idiot instead of, I don't know, blowing it to smithereens with Warp or whatever anti-Barier abilities his class might have? Why do his squadmates just flop around like morons? Why does Leng waltz around while the temple falls to pieces?
I loathe these kinds of cutscenes. This is a game people, not a B-class action movie. So you shouldn't just have some ridiculous-looking villain straight out of an anime undermine everything I've done and somehow prove impossible to defeat to a squad that just blew through a crapton of Reaper-created monsters.
Just so it's clear - I was fine with the Reapers conquering Thessia. That was a punch to the gut that works well within the game's mood - Reapers don't joke around and no matter what you do, such things will happen and there'll be no easy happy ending. But losing the data in a cutscene to a villain I'd have smeared over the floor if they'd actually let me fight him instead of turning my squad into blundering fools before Mr. Cool McAwesome? Not cool.

[Psyren]

MP is amazingly fun. I'm at 90% readiness and I still can't put it down. Got my Engineer to 18 and decided to switch it up with Adept. I'm regularly coming in second or first except when outleveled.


AWESOME.
For all we know, this could be a brilliant gambit on BioWare's part.

One of my big hopes for DLC is more MP maps, especially with ME2 mercs as enemies. Would love to take on some Eclipse mercs and sisters with ME3's improved combat.

[Sarone]

So, like Zevox, I dug my toe into the multiplayer, something I swore I'd never do...

And...eh. I suppose in the end it's no more ardous than level grinding in Final Fantasy or whathave you (I mean, I completed FFVII - AND spent all the time doing the tedious Draw stuff, so...!) When I'm ready to complete the game, it might take me two-three hours to get up high enough (I did, like five full missions on the same map against the same enemies, and it took about an hour-and-a-half and got me to 61% readiness). But, yeah... I suppose it could be worse. (Even though my contibution is mainly to run stumble around like an idiot and flail aimless away with my sniper rifle, and get shot when trying to medic everyone else...)

I was Infiltrator back in the demo before switching to Engineer. Now that is a class that is great. Between drones, Overload, and Incinerate, and the passive abilities, you have alot of leeway. It sucks in that you can't use too heavy a weapon, but a pistol like a Carnifex should do, and maybe a light SMG/Assault Rifle for the secondary weapon. At least that's my view.

[Zevox]

Personally I feel that the endings, as they stand, could have worked if just the writing (as in the storytelling) would have been better AND the intent of the writers were clarified better. It seems, quite sadly, as if the writers are surprised with the Inferred Holocaust and Starving To Death arguments because in their mind these things clearly didn't occur (from the pointers I have received secondhand from the official forums). Even if they don't gives us full new endings, it seems they almost HAVE to give us a longer epilogue to explain their actual intentions with the ending.
I can go with that. The whole argument that the endings needed better execution makes perfect sense to me, and I'd be happy if they released a patch or even DLC that expanded them to address the issue. I hope that such a thing wouldn't lead to adding a fourth "you win and the pre-Reaper status quo is restored" ending though.

How long did it take you to get the readiness up? Like you, I'm not fond of multiplayer (or shooter in general), and I'm loathe to do a C&C4 and grind the skirmish/multiplayer to up the readiness, but resigned to the fact I might have to, provided it's not going to take me days... Does a mission raise readiness in one sector, or all of them (i.e., would I have to grind to 70-odd percent in all, five or six regions or what?)

Also, I read somewhere that the readiness drops if you don't play every day... It that actually true? Because that's massively annoyingly fraktarded move on Bioware's part if it is.
A few hours, once I started playing multiplayer proper. I spent several more frustratedly trying to do it solo the night and morning before, making exponentially less progress. As far as the amount of readiness you get, for the bronze-rank missions I was playing you got +4% each time you finished a mission fully - failing a mission partway through would get you less, depending on how far you got. And it is all sectors at once that get raised.

And yes, the readiness apparently drops 1% per day. Which, I agree, is stupid. All it does is punish people who don't want to play the multiplayer constantly. Not to mention the effect it'll have on the game down the road, when the multiplayer stops running. That's one thing I definitely hope they patch out.

Zevox

[Toastkart]

I was on a roll today. I finished Thessia... and I'm pretty pissed. :smallannoyed:
Kai Leng is a perfect example of an aggravating, "I'm so cool the reality warps around me" villain. And the fight with him on Thessia was just pure BS. First off, how the hell does he recharge his shields while under fire? Second, why does Shepard just fire at his barrier like an idiot instead of, I don't know, blowing it to smithereens with Warp or whatever anti-Barier abilities his class might have? Why do his squadmates just flop around like morons? Why does Leng waltz around while the temple falls to pieces?
I loathe these kinds of cutscenes. This is a game people, not a B-class action movie. So you shouldn't just have some ridiculous-looking villain straight out of an anime undermine everything I've done and somehow prove impossible to defeat to a squad that just blew through a crapton of Reaper-created monsters.
Just so it's clear - I was fine with the Reapers conquering Thessia. That was a punch to the gut that works well within the game's mood - Reapers don't joke around and no matter what you do, such things will happen and there'll be no easy happy ending. But losing the data in a cutscene to a villain I'd have smeared over the floor if they'd actually let me fight him instead of turning my squad into blundering fools before Mr. Cool McAwesome? Not cool.
Couldn't agree with you more.

[Androgeus]

And yes, the readiness apparently drops 1% per day. Which, I agree, is stupid. All it does is punish people who don't want to play the multiplayer constantly. Not to mention the effect it'll have on the game down the road, when the multiplayer stops running. That's one thing I definitely hope they patch out.

Zevox

They need to make some incentive for people to keep playing the multiplayer. I mean do expect people to play something just because they find it fun? pfft.

[VanBuren]

I can go with that. The whole argument that the endings needed better execution makes perfect sense to me, and I'd be happy if they released a patch or even DLC that expanded them to address the issue. I hope that such a thing wouldn't lead to adding a fourth "you win and the pre-Reaper status quo is restored" ending though.

A few hours, once I started playing multiplayer proper. I spent several more frustratedly trying to do it solo the night and morning before, making exponentially less progress. As far as the amount of readiness you get, for the bronze-rank missions I was playing you got +4% each time you finished a mission fully - failing a mission partway through would get you less, depending on how far you got. And it is all sectors at once that get raised.

And yes, the readiness apparently drops 1% per day. Which, I agree, is stupid. All it does is punish people who don't want to play the multiplayer constantly. Not to mention the effect it'll have on the game down the road, when the multiplayer stops running. That's one thing I definitely hope they patch out.

Zevox

All it forces you to do is find all the war assets in the main game. Your galactic readiness will never drop below 50.

You're confusing "makes it easier to get good ending" with "necessary to get it".

[Blisstake]

I was on a roll today. I finished Thessia... and I'm pretty pissed. :smallannoyed:
Kai Leng is a perfect example of an aggravating, "I'm so cool the reality warps around me" villain. And the fight with him on Thessia was just pure BS. First off, how the hell does he recharge his shields while under fire? Second, why does Shepard just fire at his barrier like an idiot instead of, I don't know, blowing it to smithereens with Warp or whatever anti-Barier abilities his class might have? Why do his squadmates just flop around like morons? Why does Leng waltz around while the temple falls to pieces?
I loathe these kinds of cutscenes. This is a game people, not a B-class action movie. So you shouldn't just have some ridiculous-looking villain straight out of an anime undermine everything I've done and somehow prove impossible to defeat to a squad that just blew through a crapton of Reaper-created monsters.
Just so it's clear - I was fine with the Reapers conquering Thessia. That was a punch to the gut that works well within the game's mood - Reapers don't joke around and no matter what you do, such things will happen and there'll be no easy happy ending. But losing the data in a cutscene to a villain I'd have smeared over the floor if they'd actually let me fight him instead of turning my squad into blundering fools before Mr. Cool McAwesome? Not cool.

The problem with being a game, however, is that you as a player can never lose, and you basically have to be infallible in every mission to finish the game. That's why occassionally games have these cutscene losses: for the sake of the story or character development (both, in this case), sometimes your character needs to lose. The only way to simulate that in a game is through a cutscene or an impossible battle... although I really like how they dealt with this in the Arrival DLC during the fight for object Rho.

That said, I hate Kai Leng. They way they had him win really got on my nerves.

[Aotrs Commander]

I must say, I really like the Normandy upgrade. It once again feels like a proper warship - much more cramped, full of untidy cables and big chunks of machinery and a bit dingy. (Though one is forced to wonder the in-character reason why the Alliance felt the need to take out Cerberus' lighting! What, was Cerberus using the wrong sort of lightbulb or something, so they replace with LED lights...?) But yes, it feels sooo much better it isn't even funny.

Though when I find out what bugger has been hiding model starship throughout the ship, there will be some hard qeustions to answer!




A few hours, once I started playing multiplayer proper. I spent several more frustratedly trying to do it solo the night and morning before, making exponentially less progress. As far as the amount of readiness you get, for the bronze-rank missions I was playing you got +4% each time you finished a mission fully - failing a mission partway through would get you less, depending on how far you got. And it is all sectors at once that get raised.

And yes, the readiness apparently drops 1% per day. Which, I agree, is stupid. All it does is punish people who don't want to play the multiplayer constantly. Not to mention the effect it'll have on the game down the road, when the multiplayer stops running. That's one thing I definitely hope they patch out.

Zevox

I tried soloing, but literally couldn't make it past the two minute stage without dying horribly...

Eh, as I said, when I have to grind it'll be no worse than grinding in some of the FF games (or even the more tedious bits of grinding in Persona or something, so...)


All it forces you to do is find all the war assets in the main game. Your galactic readiness will never drop below 50.

You're confusing "makes it easier to get good ending" with "necessary to get it".

The implications from several places (including Bioware's forums) have been that it is impossible to get enough war resources at 50% readiness, despite completing everything, to attain the "good" ending. Or at least a modest number of people have collected everything, and yet still not got the "good" ending (whatever that may be.)

Specifically, 4000-5000 net are required, apparently, but only net totals of approx 3500 (i.e. approx 7000 war resources total) are attainable at 50%.

[Xondoure]

I was on a roll today. I finished Thessia... and I'm pretty pissed. :smallannoyed:
Kai Leng is a perfect example of an aggravating, "I'm so cool the reality warps around me" villain. And the fight with him on Thessia was just pure BS. First off, how the hell does he recharge his shields while under fire? Second, why does Shepard just fire at his barrier like an idiot instead of, I don't know, blowing it to smithereens with Warp or whatever anti-Barier abilities his class might have? Why do his squadmates just flop around like morons? Why does Leng waltz around while the temple falls to pieces?
I loathe these kinds of cutscenes. This is a game people, not a B-class action movie. So you shouldn't just have some ridiculous-looking villain straight out of an anime undermine everything I've done and somehow prove impossible to defeat to a squad that just blew through a crapton of Reaper-created monsters.
Just so it's clear - I was fine with the Reapers conquering Thessia. That was a punch to the gut that works well within the game's mood - Reapers don't joke around and no matter what you do, such things will happen and there'll be no easy happy ending. But losing the data in a cutscene to a villain I'd have smeared over the floor if they'd actually let me fight him instead of turning my squad into blundering fools before Mr. Cool McAwesome? Not cool.

Was just coming to rant about this. The worst part?

Shepard being all emo about having been defeated. Kai Leng didn't defeat me! A gunship shooting rockets did! Which is still bs because I've beaten gunships before but really? "Kai Leng is too good" was not what Shepard should have been saying, what shepard should have been saying is we'll see how tough he is when he doesn't have heavy armaments backing him up.

[Falgorn]

I was on a roll today. I finished Thessia... and I'm pretty pissed. :smallannoyed:
Kai Leng is a perfect example of an aggravating, "I'm so cool the reality warps around me" villain. And the fight with him on Thessia was just pure BS. First off, how the hell does he recharge his shields while under fire? Second, why does Shepard just fire at his barrier like an idiot instead of, I don't know, blowing it to smithereens with Warp or whatever anti-Barier abilities his class might have? Why do his squadmates just flop around like morons? Why does Leng waltz around while the temple falls to pieces?
I loathe these kinds of cutscenes. This is a game people, not a B-class action movie. So you shouldn't just have some ridiculous-looking villain straight out of an anime undermine everything I've done and somehow prove impossible to defeat to a squad that just blew through a crapton of Reaper-created monsters.
Just so it's clear - I was fine with the Reapers conquering Thessia. That was a punch to the gut that works well within the game's mood - Reapers don't joke around and no matter what you do, such things will happen and there'll be no easy happy ending. But losing the data in a cutscene to a villain I'd have smeared over the floor if they'd actually let me fight him instead of turning my squad into blundering fools before Mr. Cool McAwesome? Not cool.

Ahh, good ol' Kai Leng. Whether it's Deception or, well, ME 3, he never fails to disappoint us.
But, he gets the stuffing beaten out of him by a dying assassin. I watch this video quite a bit nowadays. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjCD1OpgKrQ

[Zevox]

All it forces you to do is find all the war assets in the main game. Your galactic readiness will never drop below 50.

You're confusing "makes it easier to get good ending" with "necessary to get it".
No, I'm not. I know it's not required to get all the endings. It is however required to get a small part of at least one ending. Even if it weren't though, I would still find it stupid, as there's absolutely no reason for that to happen.

To another topic though: on the ending, I felt there was something familiar about it yesterday, and I think I know why:
It reminds me of the ending of the Xenosaga Trilogy, the other big sci-fi RPG trilogy I've played. The ending there was practically apocalyptic, destroying not only the series' special space tech but all the worlds connected to it, with the few survivors (who made it out by the skin of their teeth, not unlike that chase sequence we see with the Normandy trying to outrun the Crucible's effects) being forced to seek through the now much emptier expanses of space for a new planet. The final scenes show such a planet, perhaps hinting at a further sequel that never came.

Of course, following what was happening in that series was a chore and a half in itself most of the time, so the ending not entirely making sense wasn't a surprise, but still, I get kind of a similar vibe from the ME3 endings. Though simultaneously better and worse executed, if that makes sense. With ME3 you can understand things up until the last few minutes better than in Xenosaga Episode 3, but the epilogue of Xenosaga Episode 3 is more detailed and less abrupt than the ending of ME3.
Zevox

[Thelonius]

Ending

I'm satisfied with the Endings. Naturally I'd have preferred for Shepard to survive and to see a proper epilogue. I don't accept the Inferred Holocaust. There is going to be lots of chaos and hard times, the whole galaxy would change, as alternative to mass relays would need to be developed. Which is what I suspect developers wanted to set up as the continuation of the story, if not Shepards, then a new character in the same universe. And I'd love to play it. Those conversations with EDI, where you can advise her to alter her programming sounded too much like a set-up for the future.

I knew the Catalysis was full of it, with his philosophy. Heck, same thing as Geth Heretics, there is 0.000000041 value somewhere in its code, that says organics and synthetics can't coexist. Once I learned, that wiping our Reapers would also eliminate EDI and Geth, the only choice remaining was Synthesis - just as Catalyst wanted. Damn the Reaper's manipulation, forced alteration of everything and Shepard dying, but it still was my choice (and I deliberated on it).

I know this is incorrect theory, but I like it. What if Reapers used the Galaxy as an equivalent of a giant organic supercomputer to develop Crucible - a way to join synthetic and organic. Reapers themselves are limited in their creativity, so they set up organics to do the research. New species arise with each cycle, develop new ideas and add to the work on the massive project ''Crucible'', that's supposed to wipe out Reapers. I bet saving the Galaxy is a perfect motivation to drive scientific progress, while there is little time time to ask questions of what exactly the project does. Of course Reapers don't want organics to develop to the level, at which they can challenge them, so they force a 50,000 extermination cycle. This also allows for next batch of organic civilizations to arise (where they'd have been stunted by older races) with new ideas to try out. Reapers also ensure that a warning and plans for ''Crucible'' are passed into the new cycle. Sure it makes the whole research project into a very long affair, but time isn't an issue for synthetics. And it's an interesting reversal of organics enslaving AIs, and the AIs growing too powerful to control and being destroyed by their creators.

And I wonder. With Reapers gone, new species will be developing into advanced civilizations, in a Galaxy already occupied by ''ancient'' civilizations of Humans, Asari, Salarians, Krogan, Turians, etc. I guess they won't be running out of living space, if new way of FTL is developed...

[Derthric]

No, I'm not. I know it's not required to get all the endings. It is however required to get a small part of at least one ending. Even if it weren't though, I would still find it stupid, as there's absolutely no reason for that to happen.

To another topic though: on the ending, I felt there was something familiar about it yesterday, and I think I know why:
It reminds me of the ending of the Xenosaga Trilogy, the other big sci-fi RPG trilogy I've played. The ending there was practically apocalyptic, destroying not only the series' special space tech but all the worlds connected to it, with the few survivors (who made it out by the skin of their teeth, not unlike that chase sequence we see with the Normandy trying to outrun the Crucible's effects) being forced to seek through the now much emptier expanses of space for a new planet. The final scenes show such a planet, perhaps hinting at a further sequel that never came.

Of course, following what was happening in that series was a chore and a half in itself most of the time, so the ending not entirely making sense wasn't a surprise, but still, I get kind of a similar vibe from the ME3 endings. Though simultaneously better and worse executed, if that makes sense. With ME3 you can understand things up until the last few minutes better than in Xenosaga Episode 3, but the epilogue of Xenosaga Episode 3 is more detailed and less abrupt than the ending of ME3.
Zevox

I have heard another comparison about the ending
Many have said the three choices are nearly identical to the end of Dues Ex. Having not completed that game or Xenosaga I can't comment on the comparisions but just wanted to share that.

on Kai Leng
I didn't mind him getting away from Shep on the Citadel, since his plan was defeated there. All he really did was call in a heavy strike and then ran before he got into a real tussle with Shep. On normal he never did more than stop to recharge, I was using the N7 sniper rifle at level 5. One headshot and half his shields are taken out triggering a recharge, he never moved from one spot.

My reaction to what he did on Thessia was to spout more rage at Cerberus, which I had been doing since Eva nearly killed Ash. I never saw KL as anything more than an extension of TIM, and as such figured his jerkiness was just Cerberus hubris. Still very satisfied with the renegade interrupt death he received "this is for Thane"

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Ahh, good ol' Kai Leng. Whether it's Deception or, well, ME 3, he never fails to disappoint us.
But, he gets the stuffing beaten out of him by a dying assassin. I watch this video quite a bit nowadays. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjCD1OpgKrQVery funny!

I watch this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkjnCOxuAsY

[Zevox]

I have heard another comparison about the ending
Many have said the three choices are nearly identical to the end of Dues Ex. Having not completed that game or Xenosaga I can't comment on the comparisions but just wanted to share that.
I have not played Deus Ex either, so I can't comment on that comparison. Xenosaga didn't have multiple endings though, it's just a straight story. Still, since the Mass Relays get destroyed in any ending of ME3, the similarities between the two stand in all cases.
Zevox

[Morty]

The problem with being a game, however, is that you as a player can never lose, and you basically have to be infallible in every mission to finish the game. That's why occassionally games have these cutscene losses: for the sake of the story or character development (both, in this case), sometimes your character needs to lose. The only way to simulate that in a game is through a cutscene or an impossible battle... although I really like how they dealt with this in the Arrival DLC during the fight for object Rho.

That said, I hate Kai Leng. They way they had him win really got on my nerves.

That's true and I don't mind cutscenes that force failure on you... as long as they make a smattering of sense. And Kai Leng's scene did not. You had no impact on anything that happened there and it was all so obviously staged it was grating.


Was just coming to rant about this. The worst part?

Shepard being all emo about having been defeated. Kai Leng didn't defeat me! A gunship shooting rockets did! Which is still bs because I've beaten gunships before but really? "Kai Leng is too good" was not what Shepard should have been saying, what shepard should have been saying is we'll see how tough he is when he doesn't have heavy armaments backing him up.

Well, to be fair a good deal of Shepard's moping was Thessia getting overwhelmed by the Reapers, which was a fair plot twist. But other than that, I agree.

[blackjack217]

I count that guy's death as significant. Yes, objectively it's not, but that's me.



Yes, this is exactly right. And now if I want that storyline, I not only have to pay an extra $5, but sit do yet another playthrough of ME2 (which, admittedly, isn't that bad, but I'm a completionist...).

I guess the other thing that irks me is that this isn't a result of a failing on my part in the game. I'd be fine if this was because I screwed up and she died, or screwed up and she hated me, or something like that. But this feels like I'm being punished for not giving EA my money. I think that's the part that really gets me.
or find a mass effect 2 save editor. or download another save from the internet. Assuming you have a pc of course :smallbiggrin:

[Kane0]

Posting just to say i am loving ME3 so far, as a ME1 and ME2 player.

I'm only just passed the third priority mission and I've already cried, saluted and laughed literally out loud at the monitor. And the multiplayer is a nice touch as well.

Well worth the money for the pre-order collectors edition, and one hell of a game.

[MCerberus]

That's true and I don't mind cutscenes that force failure on you... as long as they make a smattering of sense. And Kai Leng's scene did not. You had no impact on anything that happened there and it was all so obviously staged it was grating.



Well, to be fair a good deal of Shepard's moping was Thessia getting overwhelmed by the Reapers, which was a fair plot twist. But other than that, I agree.

Thessia would have been a grand 'you fail anyway' moment, except for it came at the hands of... well I'm not going to use the MS term but that guy. It was just sloppy and stupid with the magic cutscene powers.

Plus he had to break pretty well all of the rules about shields to do it. It makes it hard for me to believe he's any sort of legitimate threat when he gets about 3 seconds of doing anything other than being crouched over regenerating his plot armor.

Well later I was kind of giggling when he started getting up from the one-hit kill of a widow shot through the brain, half his shields, and killed the phantom behind him.

[Psyren]

Kane, that's still a spoiler - the game only came out a few days ago.


Binged on multiplayer today and hit 100% galactic readiness. My Adept also caught up with my Engineer. It's really a lot of fun. If any Playgrounders would like to play with more familiar/friendly faces though, just ask :smallsmile:

[Drascin]

I just beat this game.

What.

The.

****?!

Seriously, what the hell? Words fail me. How does any of it make sense? How does turning everyone into a mixed organic/synthetic thing "save everyone"? First, I don't see the logic in what this AI says at all. And second... we had already shown that organics and synthetics could work together, with the quarians and the geth, you nimrod! You have synthetics and organics collaborating in that fleet just around you! Hell, destroying the mass relays on a lot of systems would mean slow death to the people in those systems - it's basically shutting off all trade in a galaxy that has grown dependent on it! That's a freaking death sentence to half the societies in the galaxy!

At least your squadmates survived. Because when the ending starts, you are running at the Reaper and get annihilated, and people are going "nobody survived" in the radio, I was wondering if they'd BS-killed the squaddies you brought with you there. If they just unceremoniously killed them in a cutscene, the same way Kai Leng won because the cutscene power said so, I would have been really, really cross.

But really. Just disappointing ending. I'll probably be back with a more coherent rant when the annoyance has subsided and I can think more on it. Right now I'm still going WARGHABLARGHABLAGH.


In any case, game's over. Pretty good game overall. Narmtastic beginning and pretty bad ending, but a nice, chunky middle.

[Yana]

Well, it depends on if you're PC or Xbox (or god forbid, a poor PS3 user :smalltongue:). I think this thread is more or less evenly split between the two systems.

[Zevox]

So, I've opted to start my second file with my Vanguard. Partially because it turns out that I never went back and did some of ME2's DLC with my Infiltrator, and so I'll have to do that when I decide to bring him in, and partially because after playing a Vanguard in multiplayer I'm in the mood to play one.

Have to ask, did a patch to help with the face import issue drop when I wasn't looking? The importer did much better with this character than with my first, even though both were imported through both ME1 and 2. I still made some alterations to keep her right (and take advantage of a new hair style that 1 didn't have), but it wasn't a matter of rebuilding from scratch like it was with my first.

Had a hard time picking a bonus power, since I missed unlocking Stasis in my first run through. For now I went with Dark Channel, since I figure that can set up the biotic combos with charge that I was planning on using Stasis for as well, but I might switch to armor-piercing or warp ammo.

Zevox

[Psyren]

FWIW, Armor-Piercing is extremely powerful in this game, much stronger than it was in ME2. By the time I maxed it I was tearing through Banshees and Atlases in moments, plus the ability to shoot through thin cover helps you land a lot of messy headshots.

Haven't tried Warp Ammo though, so take my advice with a grain of salt.



Anyway - since I KNOW none of you picked this option on Tuchanka (especially given the thread title - but don't worry, neither did I), I took the liberty of digging up the decidedly more... Renegade version for you. Watch at your own risk, and enjoy some great voice-acting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-1FAxiUAoo

[Derthric]

Anyway - since I KNOW none of you picked this option on Tuchanka (especially given the thread title - but don't worry, neither did I), I took the liberty of digging up the decidedly more... Renegade version for you. Watch at your own risk, and enjoy some great voice-acting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-1FAxiUAoo

I am not crying......nope.....not at all. If you will excuse me I need another box of tissues.

On another note, did you know you can get your space hampster back if you can catch him running around in the engineering sublevel. Just started my second run through, first with my Femshep. Took me about 20 minutes to catch the bugger, whoever let him out is going out the airlock.

[Zevox]

Ugh. So, a little ways into my Vanguard file, I noticed my character has suddenly acquired freckles. Must be that "complexion" option in the face editor - I couldn't see any definable difference between the three while doing the editing, so I just picked one more or less at random. And it's bugging me.

But I really don't know that I want to go back and restart for it. I'm not too far in, just to the Citadel, but that's still a healthy amount of real-time to redo for such a simple problem. Blech.

Zevox

[MCerberus]

Ugh. So, a little ways into my Vanguard file, I noticed my character has suddenly acquired freckles. Must be that "complexion" option in the face editor - I couldn't see any definable difference between the three while doing the editing, so I just picked one more or less at random. And it's bugging me.

But I really don't know that I want to go back and restart for it. I'm not too far in, just to the Citadel, but that's still a healthy amount of real-time to redo for such a simple problem. Blech.

Zevox

My advice: starter shotgun until you get the eviscerator, that until you get the geth plasma. I didn't much care for the claymore, as its one shot kind of messes with me. Weighs too much too.

The geth shotgun is just wonderful. Super deadly, relatively accurate (especially with the accuracy mod). 5 shots, or you can charge it for MASSIVE DAMAGE.

[Zevox]

My advice: starter shotgun until you get the eviscerator, that until you get the geth plasma. I didn't much care for the claymore, as its one shot kind of messes with me. Weighs too much too.

The geth shotgun is just wonderful. Super deadly, relatively accurate (especially with the accuracy mod). 5 shots, or you can charge it for MASSIVE DAMAGE.
Honestly, I'm more interested in trying out the Graal Spike Thrower. That was the one that interested me the most when I tried it in the shooting range with my first character. Seemed powerful, accurate, and causes bleeding damage over time, though the weight did worry me. Geth Plasma actually disappointed me in the shooting range by being much less accurate than in ME2, where it was my weapon of choice mainly for accuracy reasons.

Zevox

[Callos_DeTerran]

on Kai Leng
My reaction to what he did on Thessia was to spout more rage at Cerberus, which I had been doing since Eva nearly killed Ash. I never saw KL as anything more than an extension of TIM, and as such figured his jerkiness was just Cerberus hubris. Still very satisfied with the renegade interrupt death he received "this is for Thane"

I've got a question...does anyone know what happens if you don't take that interrupt?

[MCerberus]

While I was playing a vanguard in SP, I found that leaving anything alive long enough to bleed to death is a bad idea. This makes the incendiary ammo kind of bad, but at least it sometimes panics people and chews through armor.

I found best results with the geth with a smart choke and high-caliber barrel. Capable of blasting a marauder away at medium range in one hit and brutal against large enemies. Back that up with a scoped Carnifax and you're covered at all ranges. If you're going melee though, the spike thrower you don't require extra accuracy and can put a bayonet on it.

[horngeek]

I've got a question...does anyone know what happens if you don't take that interrupt?

Shepard dodges the stab instead of breaking KL's sword. It's still done in a 'Shepard totally knew he was there' way.

Stabby then proceeds as if you had taken the interrupt. :smallbiggrin:

[Triscuitable]

Since we're talking about everyone's favorite Chinese-Ninja Space Terrorist Secret Agent:
Interesting how Kai Leng has suffered the most abuse out of the entire franchise, next to only Saren and Grayson. It's ridiculous. The most egregious example is, after fighting the Indoctrinated Grayson, who literally has no physical limits, is shot in both calves. He has to drag himself through Grissom, before climbing to the ceiling to use pipes normally used in zero-g emergencies. He then falls onto the ground. On his ruined legs.

Needless to say, the guy's taken enough crap to actually warrant his tendencies to be an ass.

[Mr.Moron]

While I was playing a vanguard in SP, I found that leaving anything alive long enough to bleed to death is a bad idea. This makes the incendiary ammo kind of bad, but at least it sometimes panics people and chews through armor.

I found best results with the geth with a smart choke and high-caliber barrel. Capable of blasting a marauder away at medium range in one hit and brutal against large enemies. Back that up with a scoped Carnifax and you're covered at all ranges. If you're going melee though, the spike thrower you don't require extra accuracy and can put a bayonet on it.

I played a Vanguard too. I found that my best solution for combat was to carry a very light weapon load for 200% power recharge. Then max out Biotic Charge, Nova and Assault Mastery. Take all options that give you either Power Charge Reduced Time or + Shield Regen. Combined with one of those easy to buy armor sets that give you +30% power recharge.

Once I did all that I could endlessly chain Biotic Charge + Nova with pretty much no cooldown time and fly around the battlefield basically invulnerable (cover is for sissies) just blowing everything up. The only things that were remotely close to a threat were Banshees and only because they had an instant kill melee attack.

Though it did kind of get bland hearing "ARGGGH" *shoomp* *blam* "ARRRGH" for 15 hours.

[Zorg]

Thoughts:

Old faces and New:

Garrus: A good friend, I just couldn't get myself to bring him on the last mission - he damn well guilted me with his relationship with Tali! I loved seeing them together, it was sort of a 'yay, did some good there' thing that I know survived.
Also really good to see him become a confident commander.

Tali: Her appearance was a bit short, not as good as ME2 but her scenes with Legion and the change in her pesonality towards the Geth (I got peace) was well done.

Legion: "Does this unit have a soul?" ;_;

Grunt: Ah, you crazy psycho, glad you made it through there in one piece.

Thane: His death was beautifully done, and really moving. I loved his joking about whupping Kai Leng's butt despite being half dead already.

Samara: Stone cold, man. Stone cold. That was one seriously f-ed up mission, and seeing how far she'd take the code for her daughter was a great character moment.

Kaiden: I am one of the minority of people who likes Kaiden, so I was super happy to get lots of him. It made me so happy when Shep said "you're my brother" to him, and his goodbye was really powerful. HIs call on "some people find my... integrity annoying" had me laughing out loud.
I took him with me on the final assault (first mission, and last mission togther), so in a way since he didn't re-appear in the final cutscene his fate is still unknown.

Javik: Bit of a tool at first, but he warmed up and I understood his mindset. In my head canon he died heroically during the run for the beam.

Zaeed: A bit underwhelming as there didn't seem to be any real change from his ME2 mission (Vido alive/dead). Still, good to see the crazy bastard.

Kasumi: Her mission bugged out on me so I never got to finish it :(

Anderson: Damn. My Shep is earthborn, so I RP it as Anderson being a father figure to her, so his death and saying "I'm proud of you child" was really heavy.

Hackett: Badass to the end. Hackett out.

Wrex: Seeing him so happy was awesome. His banter with the other squadmates was fun and his relentless optimism was a good balance to the 'realism' and pesimism of some of the other crew.

Eve: I would have loved to talk to her more! That she and Mordin got on so well made me smile.

Mordin: I just wish Shep would have saluted him when he went up that lift. A real loss there, but a good one if that makes sense.

Jack: Her new look is good, and her non-swearing policy is hilarious. Seeing a real positive change from ME2 put home what a series like this can do.

Aria: Having too much to drink at Purgatory, waking up next to her on the couch and then making a deal to bring in three merc armies - priceless.

Rana Thanoptis: Death by Email. Bit disappointing as I was hoping she'd show up somewhere like a hospital finally not doing something evil. Ah well.

Khalissa Al-Jilani: So you learned how to duck, eh? Time for a Tuchunka kiss! Seriously, I never decked her before, but she really pushed me this time. Still, she's got a quad as she's broadcasting during Cerberus' attack on the citadel.

Shiara: Good to see she and Zhu's hope are doing well and evacuated safely.

Balak: That I did not expect! And talking him down too. Well played bioware, well played.

Vega: I was very pleasantly surprised by his character. He gave a fresh perspective to the crew and was both a smart ass jock and thoughtful soldier at the same time. I took him on a lot of missions where he wouldn't be 'optimal' just to hear his dialogue.

Cortez: His character development was very touching, and having a friendly face on the shuttle pilot was a good call by the designers. I was laughing so hard at his Grizzly Bear crack towards Vega.

Traynor: She was fun, and out of curiosity (pun not intended) I tested her romance option and it was handled well (though Shep watching her shower while hunched over in the shadows was a leeetle creepy).
It was good to have another 'smart person' on the ship to come up with ideas so it wasn't all EDI.

Allers: She seemed... pointless? Not in a bad way, but it felt like there should be more for her to do - see her talking to the other crew in the halls or the like.

The Consort: No appearance. Bummer.

Aethyta: Well, we can finally shut up all those skeptics saying "she's not Liara's dad!" Her and Liara's conversation was pretty funny and rather touching.

Jacob: Family man, alright :) Again in the seeming minority, as with Kaiden I liked Jacob, so him having a happy ending was so good and really satisfying.

Miranda: "Hey Shepard, I've got this really big improtant dangerous thing going on."
"Want some help?"
"No, just thought you should know. Bye."
>_> Well she survived, so she can damn well bring me back to life again thankyou very much.

Conrad! I was in hysterics. He's honestly one of my favourite ME characters.

Kelly: Yay, she survived Cerberus' attack and is safe and happy, so that's good.

EDI: Definitely one of the spotlight characters in the game - her evolution and changing of her awareness was very well done.

Joker: I'm glad to see he got more face time as well. He didn't change much, but there did seem to be a slightly more responsible streak in him this time.

Liara: The final goodbye... talking about blue babies... I cried manly tears ;_;


The ending:

One thing that bothers me more than the stupid kid is what happened to all your friends aboard the Citadel. I mean the wards go flying off at the end, so did Kelly, Conrad, Aria, the council, Bailey, Aethyta and more get out or what?
My head canon is that the Reapers didn't bother harvesting them yet as they had them sealed so when the arms flew off they were rescued shortly after.

I took the destruction ending, and actually said outloud 'sorry Geth, sorry Edi, sorry Joker' as I fired each shot into the machine. Synthesis would be too much like huskification from Shep's point of view, and there's no way she'd let the reapers continue to exist in any form.

I was actually ok with the ending in a sort of zen-like fashion. I took the 'end' to start from arriving on Earth, so treated it in my mind as a playable epilogue - so Shep got to say goodbye to all her friends and family in the end.

Funnily the planet at the very end looks alot like the Blue Mountains here in Australia, so I'm thinking they all ended up ok ;)
And I took Buzz Aldrin's comment to the kid about 'one day' travelling to the stars as meaning it was something they did, not just a possibility.



Now, if I were writing the ending:

all I'd do is either get rid of the stupid kid or have Shep be able to ask "why do you look like that kid?" and have the Catylist explain it chose the form based on Shepard's memories or something, and then have Shep question the dreams, to which it would reply it had been trying to influence her (my Shep is a stone cold murder machine that grew up on the mean streets of Vancouver and was in gangs for most of that time, so some random kid dying ain't no thing).

Then have things go as they currently do (though if you had a high enough score not destroy the relays) and change the very very end slightly:

Old man, implied through visual cues (ie sitting in his pilot's chair in a house) to be an aged Joker: "and that's how we came to be here etc."
> scene changes to see him adressing a group of children/teens of various races. Older Liara (or other love interest) also present.
Asari child* to Liara: Grandmother, is that true? Did grandfather stop them?
Liara: Yes, [name], your grandfather was willing to sacrifice everything she had to give the rest of the galaxy freedom. She did it all so we may be free.
Child: But what happened to her after that?
Joker: Sorry kid, it's getting late.
Liara: Yes, that is a story for another night (knowing smile, pan to horizon line and title drop).

* I'd sub in another child for them with different relationships obviously - the only tricky bit would be for Tali/Garrus relationships, but through enough visual cues you could easily imply adoption (human kid with face markings or partial enviro suit etc).

[Psyren]

I am not crying......nope.....not at all. If you will excuse me I need another box of tissues.

What amazes me is how many chances you get not to do it. Even sleeping with Morinth had less "please think about this for a minute" prompts.


On another note, did you know you can get your space hampster back if you can catch him running around in the engineering sublevel. Just started my second run through, first with my Femshep. Took me about 20 minutes to catch the bugger, whoever let him out is going out the airlock.

I never bought him on my canon maleshep so I had no idea. I'll keep an eye out on femshep.

[Triscuitable]

So that old guy, in the epilogue.
That's not Buzz Aldrin. Buzz is the VA of the unnamed character recognized in the credits as "Stargazer".

[nhbdy]

What amazes me is how many chances you get not to do it. Even sleeping with Morinth had less "please think about this for a minute" prompts.

or how much it would hurt to ignore those chances... such an evil act on so many levels...

EDIT: found a crazy ending theory over on gamefaqs
None of that actually happened.

New 99% working theory is up on BSN explaining that Shepard was actually having an hallucination of being indoctrinated and you actually play that dream out. Hence the fuzzy shadow slow mo, vent boy crap. It was all in his head.

So all that mass relay stuff never happened. Neither did anyone with the Normandy. It's Shepard's mind messing with him.

DLC will make it where he truly wakes up and kicks the crap out of the Reapers.

Seriously. The theory is up on the BSN forum and it's really the hottest topic out and it's insanely supported with the details in the game. Very interested.

So if your worried about any mass relays being destroyed...well just think it was Shepard hallucinating...

What amazes me is how far people are willing to go on so little evidence to disbelieve something they do not like... almost reminds me of a certain turian...

[The-Mage-King]

Well, it depends on if you're PC or Xbox (or god forbid, a poor PS3 user :smalltongue:). I think this thread is more or less evenly split between the two systems.

At least it isn't EXBAWKS, so I don't have to, you know, pay to play multiplayer. Or Origin, because my poor comp doesn't deserve that.

:smalltongue:

[Zevox]

Just did a quick check on the ME wiki for the romance options in 3.
Gotta say, that list looks awfully one-sided. 8 options for male Shep, only 5 for female? They added a gay romance option for Kaiden, but not for Ashley? Jacob's romance gets cut off by his new relationship with whats-her-name from his cameo mission? Kinda confused by the logic behind some of those choices.

Edit: Actually, weirdest part about the low number of female Shep options: with Thane and Jacob's romances killed by one dying and the other moving on with someone else, there are now more lesbian romance options for femShep than straight ones. Only Kaiden and Garrus are male options, while Liara, Traynor, and Allers are female options.

I was also surprised to see that Vega isn't an option for either version of Shepard. I think he's the only human (non-DLC) squad member in any Mass Effect game that isn't. (Heck, with Kelly, Cortez, Traynor, and Allers, a healthy amount of the human crew of the Normandy that aren't squad members are romanceable now.)

Re: Zorg:

Kelly: Yay, she survived Cerberus' attack and is safe and happy, so that's good.
Wait, she survived for you? How? For me she was killed in Cerberus' attack on the Citadel. I figured that must be unavoidable.
Zevox

[Cristo Meyers]

Beat the game this morning. Some of that was...heavy. Ending was lackluster, but nowhere near Deux Ex: HR bad.

Banshees can rot in hell. To say I hate them is an understatement: mean, durable, and have a Resident Evil style pick-you-up-and-turn-you-into-a-shishkebob attack. They receive all of my hate. Scanning made me feel kinda like I was on the old US game show Press Your Luck. No Reaper, No Reaper, No Reaper, STOP! BWAAAAAAAHHHHHH. You've hit...A REAPER!

Not much else to say that hasn't already been said over and over. Enjoyed the hell out of this one, but I think I'm going to let it breathe for a few days before starting up playthrough 2.



Now, if I were writing the ending:

all I'd do is either get rid of the stupid kid or have Shep be able to ask "why do you look like that kid?" and have the Catylist explain it chose the form based on Shepard's memories or something, and then have Shep question the dreams, to which it would reply it had been trying to influence her (my Shep is a stone cold murder machine that grew up on the mean streets of Vancouver and was in gangs for most of that time, so some random kid dying ain't no thing).

Then have things go as they currently do (though if you had a high enough score not destroy the relays) and change the very very end slightly:

Old man, implied through visual cues (ie sitting in his pilot's chair in a house) to be an aged Joker: "and that's how we came to be here etc."
> scene changes to see him adressing a group of children/teens of various races. Older Liara (or other love interest) also present.
Asari child* to Liara: Grandmother, is that true? Did grandfather stop them?
Liara: Yes, [name], your grandfather was willing to sacrifice everything she had to give the rest of the galaxy freedom. She did it all so we may be free.
Child: But what happened to her after that?
Joker: Sorry kid, it's getting late.
Liara: Yes, that is a story for another night (knowing smile, pan to horizon line and title drop).

* I'd sub in another child for them with different relationships obviously - the only tricky bit would be for Tali/Garrus relationships, but through enough visual cues you could easily imply adoption (human kid with face markings or partial enviro suit etc).

Personally, I would've done something like this:

With all the of callbacks, references, and whatnot I would've made the final mission sequence a throwback to the ending of 1. You charge the teleporter on Earth, but instead of ol'Harby nuking the entire squad you and your men get through. You're fighting a running battle to get to the Citadel Tower once again to stop an indoctrinated madman to open the arms and end the Reaper threat, only this time it'll *&!#-ing stick. Confront TIM at the Tower, maybe talk him to death, and now you have the choice to dominate or destroy the Reapers assuming you had the war assets to get the Crucible there.

That's about as far as I get, because the more I think about it the less I like the White Knight style ending. Mostly I'd clean up the continuity errors (how the hell did Garrus end up on the Normandy? My man was with me on the ground, dammit...) I liked the after-credits sequence, but I just wanted much more closure like everyone else.

[Derthric]

Thoughts:

Old faces and New:


Aethyta: Well, we can finally shut up all those skeptics saying "she's not Liara's dad!" Her and Liara's conversation was pretty funny and rather touching.



Wait.....wait....wait
How did I miss Aethyta AND Conrad. *headdesk* I heard one asari talking about getting supplies to Aethyta as if she had an elite commando squad or something, should have followed that up.

Also, Rana's death by email was annoying, but less so than Kal'reegar's.

Your Kelly lived! Mine got kacked and wasn't even added to the Memorial Wall.

I have a feeling that Aria and abattle to retake Omega are going to be DLC. If you note towards the end of the game when plotting Relays in the Galaxy map the lines go to starclusters you can't actually access. This occured in the last game before the map opened up in the second disk. One of these looks like the Omega Nebula just south of Sigurd's Cradle. Note also that there will be reaper markers on the map but no clusters there, possible future zones?

My current Femshep soldier playthrough
Getting looser with the renegade talk since I figured out half way through the last playthrough it wont actually lock me out of decisions later, which makes changing up this time a bit more fun. Plus i always preferred Hale's delivery of Baddass. Also lost my imported face but got fairly close. However some of the casual outfits seem, poorly designed. The casual outfit for Femshep that you get when first arriving at the citadel puts her a little out of purportion. And the last option in the casual selection is just like Allers' ridiculous outfit. Maleshep's equivalent looked like dark jeans and a leather N7 jacket, keeping it kinda classy and laid back. But Femshep gets a trashy mctrash skirt?!

I noticed this time that it completely ignores the romantic reunion Liara and Shep had in LotSB. Stating that it had been years. That's rather disappointing as that reunion was one of the highlights of that DLC, and arguably the game as a whole.

Also not as big a fan of Lola as I was of Loco. Vega, both flavors of Shep are pretty crazy.

I will also say getting as invested in the Citadel side of the quests is more of a chore now, since they are all dead anyway.

Also the first batch of emails which are mostly spam about all the DLC or special gear you get to start. The reckoner knight armor is supposedly sent to you from some random soldiers. I noticed it listed their station as Rhode Island, which I show as my home both here and on XBL. Neat but oddly worded when you read it.

[SiuiS]

ugh. So many spoiler boxes...
I'm skipping pages 4-whatever just now. I suspect they hold little appeal.


They probably set up the human targets when a human spectre walks in the room.

Asari are the same as humans. Salarians would never let someone shoot at them, and both Turian and Krogan silhouettes are too big to be target practice (more like barn shooting).


Wait, you mean to tell me that the renegade options don't come off as being a jackass for no reason this time around?

Zevox

I dunno. They're still somewhat cruel, but much more "we don't have time for this" and much less "lol teh evulz" which was stupid in the first place.


I've played through about thirteen hours of the game so far, and is it just me or is Renegade Shepard a bit more....well, polite? Compared to the Renegade Shepard of ME1/ME2, this one is a choir boy. :smallconfused:

Polite, and nice are two different things. I enjoy a renegade that is ruthlessly practical. I don't enjoy eating intestines to scare little children.


The only weapon that outclasses every other weapon is the Chakram Launcher. The Particle beam can't fire long enough to be that useful.

What?

No seriously, what? The particle beam has more than enough ammo; The only time I run through a clip I take enough fire to reload my save rather than reload my weapon. I've got maxed shields, collector armor for maxed-er shields, a partner who boosts shields, and fortification for a 3/10s reduction of all damage taken. There are still times where my body hits the ground before the shield-break animation triggers.

I've also taken a brute down in five seconds, using particle beam and level 4 incindiary ammo. It's honestly to the point where I feel like I'm cheating. The particle beam turned the game from Insane to Normal. I'm thinking of swapping it out solely because of how good it is.

Perhaps I just draw a head on the target's head better than I thought?


Shouldn't it be Troll Effect 3: The Reapering? :smalltongue:

Yes. Yes it should.


I've taken two Renegade interrupts so far, at least that I can recall. *Both are rather spoilerific, so I'll tag them as such.

The first:Killing Udina. *That traitorous backstabber had it coming. *It was probably the only renegade interrupt that I actively mashed the controller to respond to. *I just wish I could have done it two games ago after he screwed me over the first time.

The second: The finishing blow on Kai Leng. *I can safely say that Shepard and I said the exact same thing within seconds of each other. That and shattering his sword with my fist was so cathartic.

If no one else likes that, I'll settle for seashells.

I am so lookin forward to #2.
#1 was probably only renegade because you used the trigger trigger :3


Sounds like you're playing a Sentinel? I think Fortification would be redundant with Tech Armor, so if you want one of those two, I'd grab Armor-Piercing Ammo. Me, I didn't pick up a bonus power until I unlocked Warp Ammo though, and I traded that for Energy Drain later. Still hoping I can unlock Stasis from Liara though - everyone seems to have two powers unique to them that you can unlock as a bonus power, and I only have Warp Ammo from her so far.

Zevox

Hm. I would actually be interested in seeing if fortification and tech armor stack. That level of DR is why I want a Krogan sentinel (berserk + tech armor).


I see. Yes, I'm playing a Sentinel. For now, Armor-Piercing Ammo sounds best, at least until I unlock Warp Ammo from Liara. Energy Drain sounds good, but it's kinda redundant with Overload, isn't it?

Energy drain recharges your shields. Reave, If you can get it, restores health I think. Personally, I want the armor power that restores shields when you purge it. Failin that, I want to throttle that squad mate for making me look bad, in my ghetto Fortification thinkin I'm all that.


I suspect it is, but I don't have it yet. Her first bonus power was the other unique power she has, the one that works similarly to Tech Armor.

Zevox

Yeah, this one. Stupid EDI.


Thank you kind sir. Looking at this, money wise I am glad I didn't buy the CE: Buying the Prothean on the side was about the same price, and I got tons of free stuff anyway (being from Swedenpre-ordering the standard edition gave me: A12 Raider Shotgun, M55 Argus Assault rifle and the full N7 Warfare Gear. Plus the extra outfits. And now this :) thanks.

Irrespective of your post, I've been meaning to ask for a while; what is your signature from?


In a recent interview with BioWare creative minds, it was said that they knew people would hate Vega for being so generic, because the internet judges everything based on it's cover. But behind that is one of the most likable new characters of Mass Effect 3, which is really a nice change of pace for bald, gruff space marines.

I like Vega. He's willing to practice some sweet science. He lost a game of chicken - like a boss. He is a straight marine who flirts with a gay technician.

That's a huge amount o depth right there. Just because you can see the outline of a hole and no it's interior doesn't mean it's not a deep hole (to make a poor metaphoralegorimile).


Well the spike thrower is lighter than the crusader and packs more punch (not by a ton but it is notable) it is less accurate and has a little less capacity, which was my problem with the crusader, it tended to run out of ammo... but the guns are similar in design and purpose. As for charging, it really depends on the enemies and power growths, I can usually charge a position and grab cover and only lose barriers, unless I have a heavy enemy on me as I charge, obviously charging brutes and banshees is bad, brutes are doable banshees are a last resort only. If the enemy is all grouped up and/or cut off from supporting fire, a nova does a great job at cleanup (I have it upgraded to punch through armor shields and barriers) but it takes up my barrier to use. If this helps at all I'm still open to any advice you could offer, my crusader has been my bread and butter, I switch to my hornet when the ammo runs dry though, I was just hoping to gather other opinions and hopefully find a better setup.

Charging is a really good tactic with high level powers - and targets.
I've got a weight bonus of +172%, and spec'd recharge times (to make up for the fortification penalty). Fortification keeps me alive long enough to draw a bead on a target, and then nova > shockwave > nova. Nova first (often without target) because it increases power recharge, and then the cycle begins. There is a point that you can get beset by up to 8 brutes at a time. I took them all on solo and came out with two broken shields and three of five health bars. The trick is that you have some directional control with Nova, especially I'd you increase it's radius. Using nova right next to an enemy and holding down on the stick combines an attack with a dodge roll.


So I unlocked the Drell Adept in MP - and it is fun.

Exceedingly fragile but hits like a truck in melee and has three very useful powers - reave, pull and grenades. *Pull then reave sets off biotech explosions (and you can make both of them aoe) and reave then grenades also sets it off for armoured foes. *And both powers recharge insanely fast.

Aha! You're using a device it the iOS aren't you?


Not me. I've honestly found it impossible to aim grenades at all - I never hit anybody with them when I throw them, so I've just stopped using them.

Watching my filly, they take a while to get used to. Not blowing up on contact is rough in SP, but they are pretty handy due to their high damage. Very personal-choice though.

[MCerberus]

I think Stickies are effected by ammo type in single player. There were plenty of times where human enemies played the shocked to death animation, or would get stunned when you hit them.

Not like this matters, since anything short of a brute is subject to the chunky salsa rule with those things. Also, widow + atlas = free giant death machine rides.

[Psyren]

I took a peek on the Bioware forums after meeting up with Jacob, concerning his romance:
The sheer rage on the forums is befuddling. Okay, maybe I never saw him as a good match for femshep (come on, you were his plan B for crying out loud) so I can't exactly see eye to eye with these folks but come on, isn't "Bioware took a dump on us" and "he will die in the suicide mission so our love stays perfect" taking it a bit far?

[Zevox]

I took a peek on the Bioware forums after meeting up with Jacob, concerning his romance:
The sheer rage on the forums is befuddling. Okay, maybe I never saw him as a good match for femshep (come on, you were his plan B for crying out loud) so I can't exactly see eye to eye with these folks but come on, isn't "Bioware took a dump on us" and "he will die in the suicide mission so our love stays perfect" taking it a bit far?
Honestly, after hearing about how creepy Tali fans on those boards could get, I'm not too surprised. Some people take these things far too seriously.

Still, I can understand being upset, since there really wasn't any reason to just override his romance with Shepard like that. If it had been someone I liked, I'd certainly be annoyed.
Zevox

[SiuiS]

Kane, that's still a spoiler - the game only came out a few days ago.


Binged on multiplayer today and hit 100% galactic readiness. My Adept also caught up with my Engineer. It's really a lot of fun. If any Playgrounders would like to play with more familiar/friendly faces though, just ask :smallsmile:

Starry Notions on Xbox Live.


widow + atlas = free giant death machine rides.

So. Awesome. /)^3^(\ !

[Psyren]

"Psyren Y" on XBL, feel free to add :smallsmile: I promise to murder no more than three additional cannibals before stopping to revive you.


Honestly, after hearing about how creepy Tali fans on those boards could get, I'm not too surprised. Some people take these things far too seriously.

Still, I can understand being upset, since there really wasn't any reason to just override his romance with Shepard like that. If it had been someone I liked, I'd certainly be annoyed.
Zevox

I agree, but I think they went that route with him precisely because he WASN'T liked. (Comparatively, anyway.) And they have the telemetry to prove it.

From my perspective, it adds a level of realism to the game - not everyone you're interested in is waiting with bated breath for you to re-enter their lives and all that. Some folks move on, even if you did get the Paramour achievement with them and everything.

One thing I do sympathize with though - it seems that Shepard isn't just unable to challenge the other woman, she's unable to get pissed off about it. Certainly MY Shepard would be, had I given my heart to the mistrustful git.

Apparently they weren't able to contain their rage in one thread so they made another. It's amusing to say the least.

[Zevox]

I agree, but I think they went that route with him precisely because he WASN'T liked. (Comparatively, anyway.) And they have the telemetry to prove it.

From my perspective, it adds a level of realism to the game - not everyone you're interested in is waiting with bated breath for you to re-enter their lives and all that. Some folks move on, even if you did get the Paramour achievement with them and everything.

One thing I do sympathize with though - it seems that Shepard isn't just unable to challenge the other woman, she's unable to get pissed off about it. Certainly MY Shepard would be, had I given my heart to the mistrustful git.

Apparently they weren't able to contain their rage in one thread so they made another. It's amusing to say the least.
Oh, it's certainly realistic, but I don't see how that adds anything to the game. If his new relationship had been set up and developed, made relevant to something to some degree, maybe I could understand it - I certainly see no problem with Thane dying and thus his romance with Shepard ending, because that was something you expected from the start due to his terminal illness. But this wasn't anything of the sort. It was just a come-from-nowhere new addition to the game, and having it override one of Shepard's romances accomplishes nothing but to tick off those players who did romance Jacob.
Zevox

[Psyren]

Oh, it's certainly realistic, but I don't see how that adds anything to the game. If his new relationship had been set up and developed, made relevant to something to some degree, maybe I could understand it - I certainly see no problem with Thane dying and thus his romance with Shepard ending, because that was something you expected from the start due to his terminal illness. But this wasn't anything of the sort. It was just a come-from-nowhere new addition to the game, and having it override one of Shepard's romances accomplishes nothing but to tick off those players who did romance Jacob.
Zevox

Sometimes things come out of nowhere in real life too, though. So it can make for a more immersive experience in that respect.

IRL, not everything is foreshadowed, and since it's not really significant to the plot it doesn't hurt anything either.

[Zevox]

Sometimes things come out of nowhere in real life too, though. So it can make for a more immersive experience in that respect.

IRL, not everything is foreshadowed, and since it's not really significant to the plot it doesn't hurt anything either.
Sure it hurts something: all of the players who were invested in a romance with Jacob. That's the thing: when you've set up something like that for a game like this, you really should not break it without a good reason, and "it could realistically happen" is not a good reason. It is after all equally realistic that Jacob might have felt compelled to stay loyal to Shepard rather than enter a relationship with the new girl if he had previously romanced her. That sort of thing happens in real life too, so "this could happen in real life" is not an argument one way or the other.
Zevox

[Archpaladin Zousha]

I took a peek on the Bioware forums after meeting up with Jacob, concerning his romance:
The sheer rage on the forums is befuddling. Okay, maybe I never saw him as a good match for femshep (come on, you were his plan B for crying out loud) so I can't exactly see eye to eye with these folks but come on, isn't "Bioware took a dump on us" and "he will die in the suicide mission so our love stays perfect" taking it a bit far?
Wait, players actually romanced JACOB? :smallamused:

[Psyren]

Sure it hurts something: all of the players who were invested in a romance with Jacob. That's the thing: when you've set up something like that for a game like this, you really should not break it without a good reason, and "it could realistically happen" is not a good reason. It is after all equally realistic that Jacob might have felt compelled to stay loyal to Shepard rather than enter a relationship with the new girl if he had previously romanced her. That sort of thing happens in real life too, so "this could happen in real life" is not an argument one way or the other.
Zevox

I think we disagree on what constitutes a good reason then. While it's indeed true they didn't have to explore that avenue at all, since they did decide to explore it he was the best choice of character to do so with.

As for it being equally likely either way:Sure it is, but they went that route with all the other romances - making them all alike would be boring, and close off an interesting narrative avenue.

Again, my only regret (assuming reports are true) is that you can't make Shepard enraged or vindictive at the whole affair.

[Zevox]

I think we disagree on what constitutes a good reason then. While it's indeed true they didn't have to explore that avenue at all, since they did decide to explore it he was the best choice of character to do so with.

As for it being equally likely either way:Sure it is, but they went that route with all the other romances - making them all alike would be boring, and close off an interesting narrative avenue.

Again, my only regret (assuming reports are true) is that you can't make Shepard enraged or vindictive at the whole affair.
Evidently we very much disagree on that.
Making them all alike in that they all can continue would be no more boring than it has been in any other Bioware game. Really, that's just a silly argument.

And no interesting narrative avenue would be closed - again, while it's certainly realistic, I don't see how Jacob dumping Shepard adds anything to the game at all. It only upsets a subset of the series' players for no good reason.
Edit: Well this is annoying. Apparently I need to log my X-Box onto the internet every time I start a new file in order to get the Chakram Launcher and armor from the Kingdoms of Amalur demo. Those didn't show up in my second file initially, and did after I quickly logged on, went back to the main menu of the game, and reloaded my file. Don't know why they don't just download it to you once and apply it to the game in general, like with the pre-order bonuses.

Zevox

[Psyren]

Making them all alike in that they all can continue would be no more boring than it has been in any other Bioware game. Really, that's just a silly argument.

Except they weren't like that.
Did the Virmire survivor run back into your bed in ME2? Until Lair, did Liara? And if they had met someone else in the interim, wouldn't your chances be that much slimmer?

Expecting people to put their lives on hold until it's convenient for you, because you're the protagonist - that's the real "silly argument." They do it with most of the romances because to the player, no time has passed - but it's still a good concept to explore/subvert, that maybe just one of them didn't feel like waiting. And who better than the guy who considered you a Plan B to begin with?


Wait, players actually romanced JACOB? :smallamused:

That was my initial reaction, yeah :smalltongue:

[Acanous]

But, since whining seems to be the name of the game around these parts, I'm gonna change it up a bit! Describe to me how you would want the game to end. How would you want a trilogy of this size and scope to end?

Ok, I'm spoilering this.

Hear me out.
Shepard gets to the citadel. The conversation with TIM and Anderson goes as is. Shepard goes to the console, activates it based on his choices during that discussion (Which in turn was based on your paragon/renegade score and what you did in game). The console activates. The Citadel starts opening.
The Reapers suicide attack the citadel trying to stop it.
The Normandy flies in, flanked by a metric asston of allied vessels trying to stop the Reapers from killing the Citadel. If your galactic readiness/military rating is high enough, Shepard gets a radio from Joker; "Commander! We don't have much time, but I'm locking on to your signal. Get ready to jump, this is gonna be a fly-by."

The Citadel is charging up. Reapers herded into the beam by alliance frigates get disintegrated A'la Collector Particle beam, but so do any other ships running into it.
Choices you made earlier in the game and upgrades you picked up determine what each race loses and how much. If you sucked and went minimum, EVERYONE takes a total loss (Including the normandy, which is caught and crunched by Reapers as shep watches the station fire a 'splosion of doom)
If you were awesome, then no named people die, but there's still fighter/frigate losses and serious capship damage taken.
Shep is saved by Joker and the Crew, with your LI (Or the FNG if you have no LI) being the one to pull your smoking carcass aboard. Dr. Chakwas saves Shep, if you recruited her. Otherwise Shep dies in his LI's arms.
Saved Shep loses a limb and has to use a prosthetic. Let's call it a leg. That should underscore the personal cost to Shepard.

Then the bang goes off.
The Citadel alone wasn't enough to kill *ALL* reapers, but since most of them were on earth, the MMP (McGuffin Magnetic Pulse) has destroyed enough of them, turning what would have normally been a slow harvest into a serious battle against extinction for the Reapers. Geth in the area are also porked, and so is EDI (Although if you talked her and Joker into romancing, he has a "Hardcoded backup". Just in case she changed something and wanted to change back.) although the MMP did not go beyond the Solar System.

Instead of like a hundred thousand reapers, you're down to maybe a hundred in the galaxy. Fight isn't over, but you (Or joker a 'la ME2) get a coded message from Admiral Hackett saying "Good job Soldier. Your part in this is over, take a well earned vacation and leave the mop-up to us. We couldn't have done it without you."
Ship flies off above a scorched earth, but fireworks can be seen in the atmosphere. Lensflare as the ship goes to land, title drop, cue end credits/DLC.


And that's what I wanted in my ending.