My Lawyer is a Sorcerer

[Vanvidum]

I've noticed that most of the time, people play sorcerers as very gregarious, attention-grabbing characters that light up the room when they enter it (sometimes literally). They tend to be the kind of character everyone notices, for good or ill.

Lately I've been considering a very alternate take (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12867258&postcount=495) on a sorcerer build that works on slightly different principles. Instead of being the magnetic personality and center of attention, I'm thinking of a character that is entirely forgettable, easily lost in the crowd, and avoids attracting attention. The idea is for a character with a background in bookkeeping, law, or other such fields--essentially a clerk or lawyer working for high nobility or merchant princes in a deadly-decadent court.

I suppose this might be described as a guile sorcerer rather than a blaster, maintaining a utility spell list that's also heavy on enchantment. After all, a lawyer with charm person or a noble's aide that can casually cast detect poison has quite a bit of value. The trouble I'm having is ensuring this sort of build is flexible enough that the character isn't totally crippled outside of his specialized circumstances, and can be of value to a group in a relevant setting.

I've toyed with the notion of this character starting with an expert level approximating his 'professional' education and aptitude, but I'm not wedded to the idea, even if it would allow for his skill distribution to make more sense from a story point of view. He ought to be able to do his nominal job without recourse to constant enchantment casting of course, which places a burden on sorcerer level skills.

This character is certainly built for a certain type of role playing as well--Ideally the fact that he's a sorcerer would be kept a secret insofar as possible, and his mannerisms, clothing and so on ought to reflect his apparent role. It's certainly better if no one suspects Lord Bob's humble clerk had anything to do with the theft of the City's magic macguffin, or the "discovery" of the Chancellor's plot against the Prince, or the very regrettable and untimely demise of said Chancellor.

Before anyone asks, I have considered the bard class in place of the sorcerer, but don't think I can make it work--If anything, the character in mind is an administrative type that thrives on not being noticed. Being a performer by nature is supposed to attract attention, and it seems almost a little cliche to have the "mere" bard being a major player in plot-versus-plot. If there is a way to make that work in the context I have in mind, I'd certainly be interested though.

Any ideas as to how to make the modest sorcerer courtier/clerk/lawyer work well?

[Flickerdart]

Take Beguiler and never look back? This is practically what they're made for.

[Rubik]

Beguiler, or telepath. Telepaths have Cha as a secondary stat due to their skill list, which is MUCH better than a sorcerer's, they only need one power known instead of several for scaling powers (Psionic Charm is Charm Person AND Charm Monster, and Astral Construct [a very good power to take as an Expanded Knowledge for a telepath] is equivalent to Summon Monster I-IX all by itself). And since a telepath's primary stat is Int, he can play the super-smart but stuffy forgettable type easily enough.

[Psyren]

Why do you want a Cha-based unobtrusive character? Wouldn't Int-based be better, especially if you plan on being a lawyer?

Anyhow, I second Flickerdart's suggestion.

[Rubik]

Why do you want a Cha-based unobtrusive character?One word:

This. http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/1f4b236d83742b8fcbf99303a59822c4/11836%20-%20animated%20cry%20crying%20crying_fluttershy%20f luttershy%20Philomena.gif

[Mystify]

Why do you want a Cha-based unobtrusive character? Wouldn't Int-based be better, especially if you plan on being a lawyer?

This was my though as well. In that line of thought, beguiler makes a good choice, as they get a lot of the spontaneous spells you are looking for, while being int-based. They are also good at hiding that they are being a caster.

[Hiro Protagonest]

One word:

This. http://img.ponibooru.org/_images/1f4b236d83742b8fcbf99303a59822c4/11836%20-%20animated%20cry%20crying%20crying_fluttershy%20f luttershy%20Philomena.gif

Are you kidding!? She's louder than all of them!
http://images.wikia.com/mlp/images/0/09/Fluttershy_cheering.png:smalltongue:

[Rubik]

Are you kidding!? She's louder than all of them!
http://images.wikia.com/mlp/images/0/09/Fluttershy_cheering.png:smalltongue:"I ROLLED A FOUR!!!!"

[Metahuman1]

Are you kidding!? She's louder than all of them!
http://images.wikia.com/mlp/images/0/09/Fluttershy_cheering.png:smalltongue:

I saw that link and immidiatly thought it was either gonna be her melt down at the Gala or the cheer practices sessions with Rainbow Dash form the opening of the Sonic Rainboom Ep.

Anyway.


Yeah, Roll a Beguiler, Int is primary but Cha is secondary, particularly if the DM will let you use the Ritual of Blood and take Melodic Casting and a dip into Witch Hunter form OA so that you can use Cha in place of Con and Wis for the most part. Meaning you can have a plenty high Cha.

[ericgrau]

Enchantment is very narrow so you do run the risk of being useless in many circumstances. One option is to charm/dominate multiple NPCs to do your bidding the rest of the time.

Adding subtle illusions are another option. The trick is to make them plausible. Insert items which the subject could believe would be there. The added bonus to this method is if the subject doesn't study or otherwise interact with the object, he doesn't even get a save. Covering a side passage with a wall is a classic trick (most subjects don't examine every foot of a long wall), or leaving behind a fake object while you steal the real one. Or subtly changing some macguffin, like making the foe think there's 12 more seconds left on the hourglass that counts down to some big event.

Silent spell, still spell and maybe eschew material components are handy to conceal casting. Spontaneous casters can apply them only when needed, which means they can conserve higher level spell slots when not needed. They could also let you buff the party with spells like haste without being seen.

Beguiler is a bit enchantment/illusion focused so it could work well. OTOH you might want to add spells from other schools for specific things. For example scrolls from a variety of schools work better than spells known for utility things. Effectively it gives you 50 spells known that can only be cast once or twice each, but you won't ever need them more than that. Unseen servant would be amazing for the character, maybe even as a known spell to use more frequently. And that's conjuration. Or alarm (silent mental ping mode) to keep watch is handy too. That's abjuration. A lot of buffs with no visible manifestation are transmutation or abjuration.

[eggs]

Chronorebel. If your case goes poorly, go back in time and change the case.

[Autopsibiofeeder]

I agree with others that beguiler fits the description. It has, however, a very restricted (albeit good and useful) spells known list. I suggest you note 10 or 15 spells from the top of your head that you see this character using and then check whether most of them are on the beguiler list. If not, it might be better to look elsewhere. I had good fun playing a beguiler, but at some point I got pretty annoyed at all the spells I did not have access to.

My first thought, though I must admit that I am a big fan of psionics, was telepath. It has loads of I-am-playing-mindtricks-on-you powers (but no real illusion type things). You can easily build a list of powers that never point to you as the origin, and through concentration checks nobody will ever find out it was you. No need for eschew materials, still spell and silent spell. There's a nice skill list with a lot of social skills and all the knowledges and Int-based manifesting, so you actually get the skill points as well. Psions also have a few nice and easy tricks that give them great survivability, which is also nice. And bonus feats. Bonus feats, hmmm. :smallsmile:

[Rubik]

Chronorebel. If your case goes poorly, go back in time and change the case.You could always do the save crystal trick and make the crime not have happened at all.

Best. Lawyer. Ever.

[MrSinister]

Depending on how manipulative you want to be, go into Mindbender but actually see it through until the end. In the Iron Chef Mindbender entry there is this awesome Enchanter/Specialist/Mindbender I'm sure you can rework.

[HunterOfJello]

I know everyone is mostly going with Beguiler, but I put my vote towards a Telepath. You'll be able to operate inside a completely magical society without ever casting a single spell or overt gesture. Taking a Telepath into the Crystal Master PrC could be very fun. You'd be a powerful psychic with strange crystals inside your body, but look absolutely normal to everyone around you.

[Vanvidum]

Take Beguiler and never look back? This is practically what they're made for.

I hadn't even thought of that, but it makes a great deal of sense. The class skills fit quite well. The downside is the significant loss of flexibility in spell selection. Probably it's just me being picky, but that bothers me.


Beguiler, or telepath. Telepaths have Cha as a secondary stat due to their skill list, which is MUCH better than a sorcerer's, they only need one power known instead of several for scaling powers (Psionic Charm is Charm Person AND Charm Monster, and Astral Construct [a very good power to take as an Expanded Knowledge for a telepath] is equivalent to Summon Monster I-IX all by itself). And since a telepath's primary stat is Int, he can play the super-smart but stuffy forgettable type easily enough.

I like the Telepath, though could be a game breaker in some circumstances. Regardless, it has just about everything I might want for the character


Why do you want a Cha-based unobtrusive character? Wouldn't Int-based be better, especially if you plan on being a lawyer?

Think of it as a person with excellent social skills that nonetheless doesn't seek the spotlight. A negotiator, manager or administrator that is very good at reading people (and manipulating them) and using that ability to his advantage in cultivating close personal relationships or cutting shrewd deals. This sort of character can't dump Int, but it's the ability to read and know people that makes him most effective at whatever he does. It's a matter of personality and style rather than mere ability.

Besides, the best manipulative bastard is the one either no one suspects or willingly follows. :smallamused:


Enchantment is very narrow so you do run the risk of being useless in many circumstances. One option is to charm/dominate multiple NPCs to do your bidding the rest of the time.

For this kind of character, being able to do that is sort of his social nuclear option. It's something that's probably unreliable on higher-level or wealthier characters who can afford to protect themselves one way or another, but those people still make use of lower-level servants, guards, followers or what-have-you.


Silent spell, still spell and maybe eschew material components are handy to conceal casting. Spontaneous casters can apply them only when needed, which means they can conserve higher level spell slots when not needed. They could also let you buff the party with spells like haste without being seen.

Eschew materials is actually something I probably would take very early. It's a little awkward to be caught with a spell component pouch if there's already been some magical shenanigans.

Still and silent are indeed far too handy to ignore, and I'm leaning toward silent as being more useful in a stealth situation. Though if tied up, I'm sure I'd be beating myself up over not choosing still first.


Beguiler is a bit enchantment/illusion focused so it could work well. OTOH you might want to add spells from other schools for specific things. For example scrolls from a variety of schools work better than spells known for utility things. Effectively it gives you 50 spells known that can only be cast once or twice each, but you won't ever need them more than that. Unseen servant would be amazing for the character, maybe even as a known spell to use more frequently. And that's conjuration. Or alarm (silent mental ping mode) to keep watch is handy too. That's abjuration. A lot of buffs with no visible manifestation are transmutation or abjuration.

Spell selection is my only real problem with the beguiler class, and one that certainly could be mitigated with scrolls to a significant extent. As you describe though, there are a lot of relatively low level spells that one might want to cast fairly often that a beguiler would have trouble with. The question I'm asking myself now is whether the benefit in skills is worth the trade off of arcane flexibility.

[Mystify]

I would suggest compiling the spells you would take as sorcerer, then seeing how vastly it diverges from beguiler.

[Red_Dog]

*Warning, this concept is BY FAR not nearly high on Tierlist as Telepath or a Sorc is. Hell not even a beguiler. This is more of just clutched on the damn T3's end by the good grace and buckets of abuse.*

I myself always wanted to play a Paladin/Psibond Agent.

A Build would be an Able Learner Human
Rouge 1/Paladin 3/Telepath1/Psybond Agent till end w/ ONE more level of Telepath tacked on somewhere may be at lvl6 before entering or after at lvl9 ish to add some flexibility.

IMO such character is a very interesting representation of a lawyer. He obeys the law and protected by laws himself (divine grace/divine law). This character specifically would be a "talking paladin". Someone who would rather solve an issue without sword play or any other yet is extremely capable in moving people towards a desired outcome.

So yeah, this would be my idea of a Lawyer.
P.S. If evil is on the table, than just grab Pal of Tyranny. SAME concept, instead you would however strive of dirty tricks no one is able to detect ^^.