Finishing out a Factotum/Incarnate

[Piggy Knowles]

I've been thinking a lot about toolkit-style builds lately, and wanted to put to paper a build that has been kicking around in my head for a while.

The basic character concept is a pretty well-worn trope, but that's fine. Heavily inspired by Jef Costello from Le Samourai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Samoura%C3%AF) - strict self-enforced code of conduct, major perfectionist, spartan lifestyle. Utterly devoted to his employer, and will serve his interests in every way possible. Jack of all trades. You get the idea.

In any case, I know how I want the build to start:

LN Human, Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3

FEATS:
1- Able Learner, Shape Soulmeld (Kruthik Claws)
3- Obtain Familiar
6- Master of Poisons

From there, I will probably just stick with Font of Inspiration from here on out, although Share Soulmeld might be nice.

Anyhow, fairly simple build. It goes heavy on the stealth, relying on Cunning Knowledge, Brains over Brawn, and its various soulmelds to be able to handle just about any skill.

I'm mostly looking for thoughts on how to finish the build out. I've got a few interesting options, and I could do any combination of them...


Take three more levels of Incarnate, giving me more soulmelds and essentia, plus Rapid Meldshaping so that I can easily swap out one soulmeld for another when I need a new skill.
Take more levels of Umbral Disciple... 6 skill points per level and more essentia isn't bad, plus it grants me some sneak attack and, eventually, blindsight.
Two levels of Chameleon. I've already got Able Learner, so it would be easy. Some stat boosts and a floating feat, which I could use to pick up an additional soulmeld du jour.
Take a leaf out of Person_Man's "Haberdash" build, and pick up a level in Master of Masks for exotic weapon fun.
Five more levels of Factotum. Good skills, some more spells, and most importantly, Cunning Surge.


They all seem like good options, and I'm having trouble deciding between them. Right now, the best way that I can see to combine them all would give me something along the lines of...

Factotum 8/Incarnate 5/Umbral Disciple 7/Master of Masks 1
or
Factotum 8/Incarnate 5/Umbral Disciple 5/Chameleon 2/Master of Masks 1

...for a final build. Both of those look good, but I'm still having trouble deciding how to make it all come together, on a level by level basis. Take a level in Master of Masks, then three levels of Incarnate, then five in Factotum? Or do I prioritize Factotum first, so that I get Cunning Surge earlier? Is Rapid Meldshaping even worth taking more levels in Incarnate, or should I ditch that idea entirely? Is Master of Masks even worth it, when I can take the spell Master's Touch and pick up proficiency as needed?

Thoughts would be appreciated! Books aren't really a concern, since I'm not currently in a campaign, making this just another build to add to my collection for the next time a game starts. That said, I'd prefer no homebrew.

[eggs]

I love Umbral Disciple 3, but that fourth level is so dead and the subsequent levels are so weak that I have a hard time justifying UD4+ in just about any circumstance. I'd lean toward Swordsage here; possibly even over Factotum 8 (again due to dry intermediate levels). Chameleon, on the other hand, would make a strong engine to pull this into the high-level game at Bard/PsyWar-like competence.

Monk 2 isn't a bad fit with Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genius - milk the intelligence bonus a bit more, get Invisible Fist, two prereq-free bonus feats (you're allowed to mix and match UA fighting styles, which is often overlooked) and either Flurry or Decisive Strike. It's a much better dip than straight-classed core only builds would lead you to believe.

I'd almost be tempted to throw in Faiths of Ebberon's Thief of Life (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060911a&page=3), just to put it into play somewhere. But even in places where it fits (like this one), it's still basically rubbish.

I think my build from that base would end up looking like:
Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Monk 2/Swordsage 1/Shadow-Sun Ninja 9

[Rossebay]

I love Umbral Disciple 3, but that fourth level is so dead and the subsequent levels are so weak that I have a hard time justifying UD4+ in just about any circumstance. I'd lean toward Swordsage here; possibly even over Factotum 8 (again due to dry intermediate levels). Chameleon, on the other hand, would make a strong engine to pull this into the high-level game at Bard/PsyWar-like competence.

Monk 2 isn't a bad fit with Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genius - milk the intelligence bonus a bit more, get Invisible Fist, two prereq-free bonus feats (you're allowed to mix and match UA fighting styles, which is often overlooked) and either Flurry or Decisive Strike. It's a much better dip than straight-classed core only builds would lead you to believe.

I'd almost be tempted to throw in Faiths of Ebberon's Thief of Life (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060911a&page=3), just to put it into play somewhere. But even in places where it fits (like this one), it's still basically rubbish.

I think my build from that base would end up looking like:
Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Monk 2/Swordsage 1/Shadow-Sun Ninja 9

Thief of life needs a more spellthief-ish approach to essentia stealing, and some enervation abilities later in order to really have an effect. Just making you stronger after a battle isn't really helpful.

Anyway, I'd drop Umbral Disciple down to 3, keeping the rest of the build. Throw in Swordsage, one or two levels, and Shadow Sun with the same. Or, Monk 1(Kung-Fu Genius)/Swordsage1/Shadow Sun Ninja 1.

Factotum 8/Incarnate 5/Umbral Disciple 3/Monk 1/Swordsage 1/Shadow Sun Ninja 1. But that's just for infinite healing and such.

[Piggy Knowles]

Shadow Sun Ninja is nice, but the Good requirement is tough. This guy is pretty resolutely LN, and it conflicts with the Incarnate's alignment restrictions to boot. Also, I'd worry a bit about multi-classing penalties there. But Swordsage in general is pretty nice.

I guess I could do something like...

Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Swordsage 3/Incarnate +2/Swordsage +1/Incarnate +1/Factotum +5

That would avoid multiclassing penalties, and end up as Factotum 8/Incarnate 5/Swordsage 4/UD 3. It's a little clunky leveling up, though.

Alternatively, I could do...

Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Swordsage 2/Incarnate +3/Chameleon 7

I kind of like how that one plays out a little better, even though I'd lose out on Cunning Surge. But in the other build I wouldn't even get Cunning Surge until level 20, so it's not actually that terrible of a loss.

[Person_Man]

I don't really see much of a synergy between between Factotum and Incarnate for high level builds. At low levels it works great, as there is a lot of melee and Skill bonuses. But at higher levels, you're nerfing your spell and chakra bind progression, which in the long run are superior to melee.

So if you're going to be playing around ECL 1-10ish, then a mix of Incarnate 3, Factotum 3, Umbral Disciple 3, Master of Masks 1, and/or Chameleon 5 works fine.

But if you're going to be playing much beyond that, you're better off as a strait Factotum, or strait Incarnate, or Whatever 5/Something that progresses soulmelds and chakra binds (Ironsoul Forgemaster, Soulcaster, etc).

[Piggy Knowles]

Person_Man,

Fair enough... any advice for this particular build? I'd be tempted to just go straight Incarnate, but I worry that it wouldn't really be able to do everything I want this build to do. Straight Factotum almost could, but if I drop Incarnate/Umbral Disciple entirely, I lose a some fairly strong stealth abilities, particularly embrace of shadow (which doubles as Hide in Plain Sight).

Taking that into mind, how about going Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Chameleon 10/Swordsage 2? I still get the skill craziness at low levels, and at higher levels I can dedicate most of my essentia to the Umbral Disciple's embrace of shadow, and hopefully Chameleon will keep me competitive at higher levels.

[Rossebay]

Shadow Sun Ninja is nice, but the Good requirement is tough. This guy is pretty resolutely LN, and it conflicts with the Incarnate's alignment restrictions to boot. Also, I'd worry a bit about multi-classing penalties there. But Swordsage in general is pretty nice.

I guess I could do something like...

Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Swordsage 3/Incarnate +2/Swordsage +1/Incarnate +1/Factotum +5

That would avoid multiclassing penalties, and end up as Factotum 8/Incarnate 5/Swordsage 4/UD 3. It's a little clunky leveling up, though.

Alternatively, I could do...

Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Swordsage 2/Incarnate +3/Chameleon 7

I kind of like how that one plays out a little better, even though I'd lose out on Cunning Surge. But in the other build I wouldn't even get Cunning Surge until level 20, so it's not actually that terrible of a loss.

Haha, whoo. I always forget about the EXP Penalties. My group has never used them.

You're human, yes? So I'd go with something like:
Factotum 8/Umbral Disciple 3/Swordsage 9, using a feat or two to qualify for Umbral Disciple. Focus on Shadow Hand for flavor points.

Or, if you really want that incarnate part, try mixing Incarnate, Factotum, UD, and Witchborn Binder. Soulcaster could always be an option.

Personally, I've always had trouble mixing Incarnum into anything I've ever wanted to play.

[Person_Man]

Person_Man,

Fair enough... any advice for this particular build? I'd be tempted to just go straight Incarnate, but I worry that it wouldn't really be able to do everything I want this build to do. Straight Factotum almost could, but if I drop Incarnate/Umbral Disciple entirely, I lose a some fairly strong stealth abilities, particularly embrace of shadow (which doubles as Hide in Plain Sight).

Taking that into mind, how about going Factotum 3/Incarnate 2/Umbral Disciple 3/Chameleon 10/Swordsage 2? I still get the skill craziness at low levels, and at higher levels I can dedicate most of my essentia to the Umbral Disciple's embrace of shadow, and hopefully Chameleon will keep me competitive at higher levels.

Have you considered Facotum 1/Totemist 2/Incarnate 4/Necrocarnate 13 (or something similar)? That would be playable at every level, give you access to every Skill, provide you with a variety of large Skill bonuses, the flexibility of access to every soulmeld, and would open every chakra slot. Plus you would gain essentia from recently dead bodies, which would fit perfectly into the hitman fluff. And if you don't like the alignment restrictions of Necrocarnate, you can use the Vivicarnate variant (at the very end of the class description IIRC).

Also, if you want Hide in Plain Site, you can buy a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from the Tome of Magic, which grants you the Dark template.

[Piggy Knowles]

Haha, whoo. I always forget about the EXP Penalties. My group has never used them.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of them either. But for my "wish list" builds, I like to keep things as legit as possible, since every group is different.


Have you considered Facotum 1/Totemist 2/Incarnate 4/Necrocarnate 13 (or something similar)? That would be playable at every level, give you access to every Skill, provide you with a variety of large Skill bonuses, the flexibility of access to every soulmeld, and would open every chakra slot. Plus you would gain essentia from recently dead bodies, which would fit perfectly into the hitman fluff. And if you don't like the alignment restrictions of Necrocarnate, you can use the Vivicarnate variant (at the very end of the class description IIRC).

Also, if you want Hide in Plain Site, you can buy a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis from the Tome of Magic, which grants you the Dark template.

Huh. Never really considered Necrocarnate. In fact, I've never really paid much attention to it at all, other than with a passing interest for TI builds as a dip to get unlimited essentia. Could be an interesting choice.

That being said... I've read through MoI at least five or six times, and do you know that I've NEVER noticed before how much sense it makes to take a two level dip into Totemist for an Incarnate/Necrocarnate build?

Let me just make sure I'm getting this straight, before I get too excited. As a Totemist, I can shape any of the soulmelds on the Totemist list. Now, all of my chakra binds (except for the totem chakra) would be coming from my Incarnate levels. I can still bind a Totemist soulmeld to a chakra opened via Incarnate levels, no?

If so, two levels of Totemist would be worth it just for the Phase Cloak and Shedu Crown alone. Adding on 100' telepathy (hello Mindsight) and unlimited etherealness to a stealth/hitman build is pretty excellent.

[Person_Man]

Let me just make sure I'm getting this straight, before I get too excited. As a Totemist, I can shape any of the soulmelds on the Totemist list. Now, all of my chakra binds (except for the totem chakra) would be coming from my Incarnate levels. I can still bind a Totemist soulmeld to a chakra opened via Incarnate levels, no?

If so, two levels of Totemist would be worth it just for the Phase Cloak and Shedu Crown alone. Adding on 100' telepathy (hello Mindsight) and unlimited etherealness to a stealth/hitman build is pretty excellent.

Unlike every other Incarnum prestige class, the Necrocarnate's meldshaper level and how it gains new souldmelds and chakra binds is very vaguely worded. The Necrocarnate does not include the words "if you have more then one meldshaping class to which you belong before becoming an Whatever, you must decide which class..." You gain new soulmelds and chakra binds independently, and not as a "+1 to an existing meldshaper class."

So if I were your DM, I would allow a Totemist/Incarnate/Necrocarnate to shape and bind soulmelds from either class, on the condition that you played the essentia rules "honestly" by gaining it from enemies your party killed, and not by pouring hot water on an ant hill or stockpiling recently dead corpses.

[Piggy Knowles]

I'll have to keep that build in mind. I really would want it to be LN rather than NE, but if a DM were to approve it, it would be pretty much perfect. The ability to cherry-pick soulmelds like that is ideal, (and even better than my original idea of dipping in Chameleon to pick up a different Shape Soulmeld feat each day), and the harvesting of essentia from my kills would fit in well with the concept. He could even be so dedicated to his lord that he takes jobs for free, harvesting the essentia as his payment.

In any case, this DID make me think of another interesting direction for an Incarnum-based stealth build. It doesn't fit as closely with this particular build concept, but could still be fun:

Human, Feat Rogue 1/Totemist 17/Chameleon 2

Feats:
1- Able Learner, Midnight Dodge, Mobility
3- Shape Soulmeld (Theft Gloves)
6- Mindsight
9- Spring Attack
12- Darkstalker
15- Expanded Soulmeld Capacity
18- Bonus Essentia

Just taking a quick snapshot, at level 10, that would be five soulmelds shaped, with two chakra binds, so I could have something like the following...

Crown: Shedu Crown (bound)
Shoulders: Phase Cloak (bound)
Hands: Theft Gloves
Feet: Worg Pelt

...and then anything useful in that last slot. Let's say Blink Shirt, or another skill booster.

Max out Hide, Move Silently and Sleight of Hand, and dedicate my essentia to improving those three. Pick up a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis as early as possible for HiPS. Track my enemies via Mindsight, then ethereally phase over to them, steal something via a max'd out Sleight of Hand, and phase away. Strip my opponents clean, first targeting things like holy symbols, spell component pouches, etc.

Since the level in Rogue means I won't ever pick up Totem Embodiment, I can jump out of Totemist at level 17, and instead grab two levels of Chameleon (which I already qualify for) for the floating feat.

Thoughts? It would be difficult to make it work with my current concept (it's less of a jack of all trades, and more of a super-thief), but it could be fun. I'd just need to find a way to build some offense into it.