Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-03-10, 09:25 PM
EDIT: A more formal writeup of these rules is in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13000041#post13000041).
So I was looking over the Advanced Races Playtest (http://paizo.com/store/downloads/v5748btpy8osf), and I noticed that it suggests you ignore level adjustment at high levels. I think this isn't a satisfactory solution, and I was wondering if there was another way to have monster PCs be balanced.
Would it make sense to make monster PCs take a level in an NPC class for every 5 RP over 10? For example, a centaur (RP 30 as given in the playtest) could take 4 levels in warrior, and then take levels in PC classes afterwards. 5 RP is roughly equivalent to a level's worth of class features, right? (For example, a fighter's bonus feat is 4 rp, and the access to higher-level feats dependent on fighter levels is worth 1 rp.)
For casters, you could also let a monster PC with adept levels forfeit the spellcasting and adept's familiar to add his adept level to his caster level for one spellcasting class. At the GM's discretion, a low-level PC could be allowed access to spells from the class he plans to take levels in. Since LA tends to be a fairly serious penalty to casters, for the purpose of qualifying for prestige classes you could also treat casters as being able to cast higher-level spells as though they were using their effective caster level instead of their class levels. This means that a monster PC could easily qualify for a class like Eldritch Knight with a one-level dip in Warrior, in spite of having adept levels too.
Finally, for low-level PCs who have a large number of NPC classes to take, you could impose a penalty to attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks equal to the difference between the monster's LA and his levels in NPC classes.
This means you can have a 1st-level ogre with +4 Strength and reach, but it's balanced by a -1 to attack, worse saves and skill checks, and lower AC (simply because Large-sized armor is very expensive at lower levels). Once he finishes his 2 levels of warrior and reaches 3rd level, he's 2 levels behind on fighter or barbarian abilities (which should be balancing enough,) but he's not completely behind the curve from having a low base attack bonus.
Obviously, this means that level adjustments will be much higher than they are for 3.5 edition. The upside is that there's no need for racial Hit Dice.
Any thoughts? Do you think that NPC classes scale well enough for this to be balanced at all levels? Would it make sense to change some things about the NPC classes to make all of them better choices? (For example, make the commoner have d12 Hit Dice and all good saves to represent the "Action Survivor" archetype.)
Thomar_of_Uointer
2012-04-02, 10:24 AM
I wrote up a formalized version of the rules proposed in the first post.
This is a modification of the 3.5 edition level adjustment rules to make them line up better with Pathfinder's rules. The basic idea is that PCs belonging to a powerful race must take levels in NPC classes to balance their abilities, and suffer penalties if they do not. Level adjustments will be higher because PCs still gain Hit Dice from level adjustment.
INHERITED TEMPLATES AND RACES
A PC with a LA +1 race or template must take one level in one of the NPC classes at first level. Afterwards he may progress normally.
A PC with a LA +2 or higher race or template suffers some penalties. He cannot take levels in any PC classes until he has as many levels in NPC classes as he has level adjustment. He also suffers a number of permanent negative levels equal to the difference between his levels in NPC classes and his level adjustment (so a second-level warrior with LA +4 would have two negative levels.) Each negative level reduces the PC's maximum hit points by 5 and imposes a -1 penalty to all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. This also lowers the PC's caster level for all spells and spell-like abilities (minimum 1,) and he loses a number of spell slots equal to his negative levels, starting with the highest-level spell slots. These negative levels do not count towards instant death for having more negative levels than Hit Dice. If these penalties reduce the PC's hit point total below 0, the race might not be appropriate for the PC's level.
ACQUIRED TEMPLATES
If a PC acquires a template, he gains all of its abilities (where appropriate) but immediately suffers negative levels for the difference between his LA and NPC class levels, as noted above.
NPC CLASSES
The following classes may be taken to mitigate level adjustment: Adept, Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert, Warrior.
PCs who take levels in Adept may use their Adept levels to improve their spellcasting. Anytime a PC gains a level in a class that grants spellcasting, he may choose to forfeit all of his Adept spellcasting abilities and the Adept's summon familiar class feature. If he does so, he adds his levels in Adept to his caster level for variable effects of spells (but not spells known and spells per day). This applies to all spellcasting classes the PC has levels in.
Commoners get good Reflex, Will, and Fortitude saves to represent the archetype of "I'm not supposed to be in these dangerous situations but at least I'm lucky enough not to die easily!"
ADVANCED RACE BUILDING
The Pathfinder Advanced Race Building Guide Playtest uses race points to rate the power levels of races. Generally speaking, a LA +0 race has 10 rp. For every 5 rp over that baseline, a race's LA increases by +1. Therefore, a 25 rp race is a LA +3 race (25 = 10 + 15, 15 / 5 = 3). Races given below have been adjusted and made slightly more powerful so that they line up properly with this level adjustment system.
Okay, here are a few examples of generally common monster races I threw together to test this idea for balance.
Aasimar
+2 Charisma, +2 Wisdom: Aasimars are insightful, confident, and personable.
Medium Outsider (Native)
Normal Speed: Aasimars have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Skilled: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Perception checks.
Spell-Like Ability: Aasimars can use daylight once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level equals the aasimar's class level).
Spell Resistance: Aasimars have spell resistance equal to their level 6.
Celestial Resistance: Aasimars have acid resistance 5, cold resistance 5, and electricity resistance 5.
Languages: Aasimars begin play speaking Common and Celestial. Aasimars with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, and Sylvan.
LA +1 (15 RP)
Catwere (a cat that can transform into a humanoid, also works for foxes and some other Tiny-sized creatures, take a feat for scent)
+4 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Con, -2 Cha, -4 Str
Tiny Magical Beast [Shapechanger]. Catweres cannot use weapons or tools in cat form. Catweres must wear Tiny barding armor in cat form. All of a catwere's armor and shield bonuses are halved (including any magical enhancement bonuses and bonuses from spells.)
30' speed
Low-light vision
Darkvision 60'
Change Shape: A first-level catwere must choose an alternate form. This form must be that of a Small- or Medium-sized humanoid, once chosen it cannot be changed. As a standard action the catwere may shift between his cat form and this humanoid form. Equipment does not meld into either form. In humanoid form the catwere's racial Strength and Dexterity modifiers change to +2 Dex, -2 Str, and he loses his camoflauge ability.
Camoflauge: In animal form, a catwere gains a +4 Stealth bonus in marshes and forested terrain.
Water Hatred: A catwere who is in water or in danger of falling into water must make a DC 10 Will save each round or be staggered.
Catweres speak Common and Catwere (and can speak with most other felines, though most creatures with an Intelligence score of 2 can't understand anything more complicated than basic emotions). Catweres with high Intelligence scores may learn Elvish, Goblin, Gnome, Halfling, and Sylvan.
LA +0 (10 RP)
Dragon, True (I don't really like this, it needs to be tweaked for each dragon species and raised by 10 RP to LA +8 to be better and more specific.)
+2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha, -4 Dex
Large (long) Dragon. Armor must be specially fitted for dragons, together with the dragon's large size this quadruples the base market price. Dragons do not have a magic item slot for boots.
30' speed, fly 40' (poor)
Darkvision 120'.
Low-light vision.
Natural Attacks: A dragon has a natural claw/claw/bite attack routine. The claws do 1d4 damage and are primary weapons, and the bite does 1d6 damage. The bite is a secondary weapon when used in the routine and a primary weapon when used alone.
Elemental Affinity: A first-level dragon picks one of the following energy types: Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic. The dragon is immune to that energy type.
Breath Weapon (Su): Using a breath weapon is a standard action. A dragon can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds. This weapon is either a 60' cone or a 120 line, chosen at first level. Those caught in the effect take 1d6 damage per 2 levels. Those caught in the area can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC 10 1/2 dragon's level dragon's Con modifier). A dragon can use its breath weapon when it is grappling or being grappled.
Spell-like Ability: A first-level dragon picks any level 1 spell from the cleric druid, or wizard spell lists. It may cast this spell once per day as a spell-like ability as a caster of its level (the save DC is Charisma-based).
+1 natural armor bonus to AC.
DR 5/magic
Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.
Languages: Dragons know Common, Draconic, and may take any languages as bonus languages.
LA +6 (40 RP), it is highly recommended that you buy 10 more RP of abilities appropriate for your species.
Dragonkin (playable half-dragon or lizardfolk, maybe write up some racial feats if you want wings)
+2 Str, +2 Cha, -2 Dex
Medium Humanoid (reptilian)
30' speed
Natural Armor: Dragonkin have a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
Elemental Affinity: A first-level dragonkin picks one of the following colors. He gains energy resistance 10 against the listed energy type, and a +2 bonus to checks with the listed skill.
Black: Acid, Swim.
Blue: Electricity, Bluff.
Brass: Fire, Diplomacy.
Bronze: Electricity, Swim.
Copper: Acid, Climb.
Gold: Fire, Appraise.
Green: Acid, Stealth.
Red: Fire, Intimdate.
Silver: Cold, Sense Motive.
White: Cold, Acrobatics.
Breath Weapon: Once per day, a dragonkin can breathe a 60' cone which matches his energy type from Elemental Affinty. All creatures in the cone take 1d6 damage per 2 levels (minimum 1d6), and are allowed a Reflex save for half damage (DC 10 1/2 level Con mod).
Dragonkin begin play speaking Common and Draconic. Dragonkin may learn all languages as bonus languages.
LA +0 (10 RP)
Drow
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, –2 Constitution: Drow are nimble and manipulative.
Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Normal Speed: Drow have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Drow can see in the dark up to 120 feet.
Drow Immunities: Drow are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial bonus to saves against enchantment spells.
Keen Senses: Drow receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception checks.
Spell Resistance: Drow possess spell resistance equal to 6 plus their class levels.
Spell-Like Abilities: A drow can cast dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire, and feather fall each once per day, using his total character level as his caster level.
Poison Use: Drow are skilled in the use of poison and never risk accidentally poisoning themselves. Drow favor an insidious toxin that causes its victims to lapse into unconsciousness—this poison allows drow to capture slaves with great ease.
Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light blinds drow for 1 round; on subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.
Weapon Familiarity: Drow are proficient with the hand crossbow, rapier, and short sword.
Languages: Drow begin play speaking Elven and Undercommon. Drow with high Intelligence can choose bonus languages from the following: Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Common, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, or Goblin.
LA +1 (15 RP)
Forsaken (generic free-willed undead, take feats for things like blood-sucking or damage reduction at the cost of additional penalties)
+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. Forsaken are harder to kill than normal humans because they feel no pain. Their heightened undead senses make them keenly aware of their surroundings. The deadness inside them makes them seem introverted or distracted to others.
Medium Undead, a forsaken is treated as both a humanoid with the human subtype and an undead creature for the purpose of spells and effects. This does not include the normal undead benefits, only those listed here.
30' speed
Darkvision 60'
Black Blood (Ex): Forsaken have a +2 racial bonus to saves against disease. A forsaken adds his level to saving throws against poison effects.
Forsaken Resistance (Su): Forsaken receive a +2 racial bonus to all Will saving throws. They also receive a +2 racial bonus to saves against necromancy spells and effects, and against all mind-affecting effects that do do not require a Will save. (Yes, there are at least two mind-affecting spells that require a Fortitude save.)
Forsaken Immunities (Su): Forsaken are immune to magic sleep effects.
Unliving (Su): Forsaken are harmed by positive energy and healed by negative energy. Fast healing still works normally for forsaken. Forsaken take no penalties from energy drain effects, but they can still be killed if they have more negative levels than Hit Dice.
Resurrection Vulnerability (Su): A raise dead spell cast on a forsaken can destroy it (Will negates). Using the spell in this way does not require a material component.
Forsaken cannot age, but they still need to breathe. A forsaken does not need to eat unless he is injured, then he may regain hit points and heal ability score damage as normal for a character of his level by eating flesh. Forsaken are physically incapable of sleep, but they do need to spend time resting to reduce the risk of injury.
Forsaken know the same languages as humans.
LA +0 (10 RP)
Goblin
–2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, –2 Charisma: Goblins are fast, but weak and unpleasant to be around.
Small: Goblins are Small creatures and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their CMB and CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Fast: Goblins are fast for their size, and have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Goblins can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Skilled: +4 racial bonus on Ride and Stealth checks.
Languages: Goblins begin play speaking Goblin. Goblins with high Intelligence scores can choose any of these bonus languages: Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Gnoll, Gnome, Halfling, Orc.
LA +0 (10 RP)
Golem (a Medium-sized humaniform golem that was probably built on a budget)
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
Medium Construct (Living). A golem is treated as both a humanoid and a construct for all purposes. Golems still have an internal physiology based on alchemical lubricants, steel tendons, and conductive nerves, making them susceptible to many of the same things that affect humanoids like poisons and bleed effects.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease, mind-affecting effects, poison, and effects that cause either exhaustion or fatigue.
Slam: A golem's unarmed attacks are always treated as manufactured weapons, they can deal lethal or nonlethal damage without penalty and do not provoke attacks of opportunity. A golem's fists may be enchanted, just as though they were masterwork gauntlets (but each fist must be enchanted separately).
Natural Armor: Golems have a +1 natural armor bonus to AC. Golems may wear armor, but it must be custom-fitted for them. This does not cost any more than regular armor because golems do not require many of the layers and padding that humanoids require. A golem's "skin" may be enchanted, just as though it was a masterwork suit of armor.
Metal Frame: Golems are treated both as metal creatures and as creatures wearing metal armor for the purpose of spells and effects (like rusting grasp and shocking grasp).
Repair: Golems cannot heal naturally, and only receive half healing from magical healing effects. A golem may be repaired by spending 8 hours and making a DC 15 Craft check, healing 1 point of damage per level or 1 point of ability score damage. This requires a golem repair kit (150 gp, 5 lbs) or access to a forge.
• Golems do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that a golem can drink potions and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither is required to survive or stay in good health.
Golems speak Common and may select any languages as bonus languages.
LA +0 (10 RP)
Half-Dragon (see Dragonkin)
Kobold
–4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution: Kobolds are fast but weak.
Small: Kobolds are Small and gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty to their CMB and CMD, and a +4 size bonus on Stealth checks.
Normal Speed: Kobolds have a base speed of 30 feet.
Darkvision: Kobolds can see in the dark up to 120 feet.
Low-Light Vision
Armor: Kobolds have a +1 natural armor bonus.
Crafty: Kobolds gain a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Perception, and Profession (miner) checks. Craft (trapmaking) and Stealth are always class skills for a kobold.
Weakness: Light sensitivity.
Metal Glamer (Sp): Once per day a kobold may touch metal to alter its visual appearance, making it seem to be any type and quality of metal he chooses. This affects a metal object or a group of similar metal objects weighing no more than one pound per level, and the effect lasts for one minute per level. For example, a kobold could make a pile of dirty copper coins seem to be a pile of polished gold coins, or make a gleaming silver statue seem to be an iron statue with patches of old rust. Anyone carefully examining a glamered object or using the Appraise skill is entitled to a Will save (DC 10 1/2 level Cha mod) to recognize the metal as fake.
Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.
Swarming: Up to two members of this race can share the same square at the same time. If two members of this race that are occupying the same square attack the same foe, they are considered to be flanking that foe as if they were in two opposite squares.
Languages: Kobolds begin play speaking only Draconic. Kobolds who have high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Common, Dwarven, Gnome, and Undercommon.
LA +0 (10 RP)
Pixie (this race has been nerfed, deal with it. maybe homebrew some racial feats if you want abilities like magic arrows or perma-invisibility.)
-2 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha
Small Fey
20' speed, fly 50' (average)
Low-light vision
DR 5/cold iron
+1 natural armor
Spell Resistance 11 level.
Spell-Like Abilities: A pixie can cast invisibility, lesser confusion, and minor image each once per day. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
Languages: Pixies speak Common and Sylvan. Pixies who have high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Auran, Elven, Giant, Gnome, and Halfling.
LA +4 (30 RP)
Tiefling
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma: Tieflings are quick in body and mind, but are inherently strange.
Medium Outsider (Native)
Darkvision: Tieflings see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Skilled: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Stealth checks.
Spell-Like Ability: Tieflings can use darkness once per day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability equals the tiefling's class level.
Fiendish Resistance: Tieflings have cold resistance 5, electricity resistance 5, and fire resistance 5.
+1 natural armor.
Spell Resistance: Tieflings have spell resistance equal to their level 6.
Fiendish Sorcery: Tiefling sorcerers with the Abyssal or Infernal bloodline treat their Charisma score as 2 points higher for all sorcerer class abilities.
Languages: Tieflings begin play speaking Common and either Abyssal or Infernal. Tieflings with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following: Abyssal, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Infernal, and Orc.
LA +1 (15 RP)
Wolfwere (a wolf that can transform into a humanoid, also works for large cats and could even cover Small-sized forms with little tweaking, take a feat for scent)
+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -4 Cha
Medium Magical Beast [Shapechanger]. Wolfweres cannot use weapons or tools in wolf form. Wolfweres must wear barding armor in wolf form, which doubles the base market price.
30' speed
Low-light vision
Darkvision 60'
Bite: A wolfwere has a primary natural attack dealing 1d6 damage.
Sprinter: A wolfwere gains a +10 racial bonus to its speed when using the run, charge, or withdraw actions.
Change Shape: A first-level wolfwere must choose an alternate form. This form must be that of a Small- or Medium-sized humanoid, once chosen it cannot be changed. As a standard action the wolfwere may shift between his wolf form and this humanoid form. In humanoid form the wolfwere loses his bite and sprinter abilities. Equipment does not meld into either form.
Wolfweres speak Common and Wolfwere. Wolfweres with high Intelligence scores may learn Elvish, Giant, Goblin, Gnome, Orcish, and Sylvan.
LA +0 (10 RP)
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