Fullblade

[hivedragon]

What book is this in?

[RaggedAngel]

What book is this in?

The Arms and Equipment Guide. It's just a bigger Greatsword that requires a certain Str to use. It's not usually worth the EWP feat.

[hivedragon]

The Arms and Equipment Guide. It's just a bigger Greatsword that requires a certain Str to use. It's not usually worth the EWP feat.

How well does it do as a Kensai's signature weapon?

[DaedalusMkV]

The Arms and Equipment Guide. It's just a bigger Greatsword that requires a certain Str to use. It's not usually worth the EWP feat.
That said, if you were ever jealous of Fighters getting to add a flat +2 to their damage with Weapon Specialization, EWP Fullblade lets your big, manly Barbarian show him up by adding an average of two damage to every hit without needing Fighter levels. Aw yeah! Although, it's actually more like an oversized Bastard Sword than a Greatsword...

Seriously, it's not worth it unless your character concept really requires an oversized sword, in which case it's far better than Monkey Grip. There are much better things to do with your feats than get access to a weapon that does literally two more damage on average than a Greatsword, no matter what class you are.

Edit: It does no better as a Kensai's weapon. Generally, melee Kensai want to focus on weapons that gain some benefit from a whole bunch of specialized enchantments. High crit-range for Keen, Reach for several others, etc. The only time Fullblade Proficiency might be worthwhile is if you're either Large or have Powerful Build, since 3d8 Damage from a Large Fullblade is actually decently superior to 3d6 from a Large Greatsword, and any size-stacking shenanigans benefit the Fullblade's d8 track far better than any other available weapon.

[Keneth]

It should be noted that Fullblade is 3.0 and there is no 3.5 conversion. In effect this is a large bastard sword which can be wielded normally with EWP and by taking a -2 penalty to attacks for wielding an oversized weapon or by using a feat/ability/item that lets you wield larger weapons.

[Ashtagon]

It should be noted that Fullblade is 3.0 and there is no 3.5 conversion. In effect this is a large bastard sword which can be wielded normally with EWP and by taking a -2 penalty to attacks for wielding an oversized weapon or by using a feat/ability/item that lets you wield larger weapons.

Greatsword, actually. the 3.0e A&EG even says as much, noting that it is "an ogre's greatsword".

[Keneth]

Greatsword, actually. the 3.0e A&EG even says as much, noting that it is "an ogre's greatsword".
That's just fluff. Statistically it's a large bastard sword, a large greatsword does 3d6 damage.

[kardar233]

That's just flavor text. An Ogre's greatsword (being a Large greatsword) would do 3d6 damage and wouldn't be able to be used by a Medium character without Powerful Build, Monkey Grip or similar.

If you have EWP: Bastard Sword, you can wield a Medium Bastard Sword in one hand and a Large one in two. A Large Bastard Sword does 2d8 damage. How much damage does a Fullblade do? 2d8? Thought so.

~EDIT~ Fighter'd.

[Ashtagon]

That's just flavor text. An Ogre's greatsword (being a Large greatsword) would do 3d6 damage and wouldn't be able to be used by a Medium character without Powerful Build, Monkey Grip or similar.


None of which even existed in 3.0.

[Keneth]

Monkey grip existed in 3.0 (Sword and Fist), as did larger than normal weapons. :smallsmile:

Edit: The feat didn't allow you to wield larger two-handed weapons though, as I recall.

[Rossebay]

Exoticist Fighter.
Take fullblade. Feels good, man. Feels good.

Or, Kensai variant fighter. Take fullblade. Still feels really good. Level 1: Free EWP, Weapon Focus, and +1 damage out of it. Basically, start out as a fighter with a greatsword that has +3 damage on it.

What now, normal fighters? Y'all cryin'.

Anyway, yeah. Unless you use either of those two variants for the free feats and bonuses, don't bother with a fullblade.

[HunterOfJello]

If you're interested in spending a feat to get a cool weapon for your character to swing around and look awesome with, then the Fullblade is a good choice. It is a far far better choice than a (normal) Bastard Sword and some of the other choices people go with.

If you're using a 2handed weapon to fight with, the Fullblade will do an average of 2 more damage than a Greatsword.


~

There are better choices for EWP like the Spiked Chain, Elven Courblade, and Whip-Dagger. However, the Fullblade is merely decent while not being horrific like the pathetic +1 damage of the Bastard Sword.

[Gavinfoxx]

Personally, I always felt that a Large Kaorti Resin Jovar, wielded via a pair of Strongarm Bracers, does the 'Huge, Powerful, Exotic Weapon' thing pretty well in 3.5e.

Make it +1 Keen Aptitude (or whatever that gives proficiency of anyone to pick it up), maybe even Bodyfeeder, and even better!

Also works well on Courtblade and Great Falchion.

[Akal Saris]

EWP: Fullblade is also a decent pick for melee characters that don't normally get martial 2-handed weapons and don't care too much about tripping or reach. Rogues, clerics, and binders all can get good use out of the feat rather than wasting a race/domain/binding on getting weapon proficiency.

If you're playing in 3.P, then the half-elf's alternative racial to swap skill focus for Exotic weapon proficiency could also make fullblade useful for some classes, and it has good synergy with the otherwise-mediocre Vital Strike chain.

I think it's a solid weapon, really. There's better EWP's (even ignoring silliness like kaorti resin...), but certainly many worse ones as well.

[Thurbane]

If you can swing the skill reqs, a dip into Master of Masks can get you proficiency with ALL exotic weapons. Get yourself a Morphing/Sizing weapon, and you've got a tool for every occasion.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Exoticist Fighter.
Take fullblade. Feels good, man. Feels good.
actually feels bad.
-2 penality for +2 damage is worse than regular use of 2handed power attack, which gives -2 to hit for +4 damage

same bonus to hit, lower damage

[Tvtyrant]

It isn't so bad if your goal is to turn gigantic, as it would turn into a 8d8 weapon at colossal, getting 8 extra damage a swing. It's no King of Smack, but it isn't a bad bonus if you are already going that route.

[Darrin]

actually feels bad.
-2 penality for +2 damage is worse than regular use of 2handed power attack, which gives -2 to hit for +4 damage

same bonus to hit, lower damage

Huh? He means the Exoticist Fighter variant from Dragon #310. Instead of gaining martial proficiency with all weapons, the Exoticist picks four exotic weapons to be proficient in. This saves you from blowing a bonus feat slot on EWP. Proficiency with Fullblade means you're getting 2d8 damage with no attack penalty (well... depending on how you update the fullbade to 3.5 rules).

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Proficiency with Fullblade means you're getting 2d8 damage with no attack penalty
I do not have the book that contains the fullblade but I read in this thread that even with the proficiency, you get a -2 to hit because the size is not appropriate.

[Keneth]

No, you don't. A fullblade was a standard 2-handed exotic weapon in 3.0 which makes it appropriately sized. A large bastard sword however (same stats) on the other hand does generally give you a -2 penalty to attacks due to it being inappropriately sized. It depends on whether or not the DM lets you use it as a weapon.

[Ashtagon]

No, you don't. A fullblade was a standard 2-handed exotic weapon in 3.0 which makes it appropriately sized. A large bastard sword however (same stats) on the other hand does generally give you a -2 penalty to attacks due to it being inappropriately sized. It depends on whether or not the DM lets you use it as a weapon.

A&EG says it was a Huge weapon, which almost certainly imposes size-based penalties for most PC races.

Relevant quote is relevant:


A Large creature could use the fullblade with one hand, but it would be assessed the standard -4 non-proficiency penalty on its attack rolls; Large creatures can use the fullblade in two hands as a martial weapon. A Large creature with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (fullblade) feat can use the fullblade in one hand, but a Medium-size creature must use both hands even if it has the relevant feat. A fullblade is also called an ogre's great sword.

My understanding is that a Medium creature can use it two-handed with EWP, but even then he suffers the weapon size penalty.

[Keneth]

Nothing in that quote implies that a medium-sized creature receives penalties when wielding it in both hands, just like you don't get the penalties for wielding a bastard sword in one hand if you have EWP. Weapon sizes used to work differently in 3.0, though I fail to remember what the rules were, it being Huge may or may not have any effect on its use apart from determining who can use it and with how many hands.

I may be wrong but seems kinda pointless and counterproductive to take EWP and still get a -2 penalty to attack.

[Rossebay]

Nothing in that quote implies that a medium-sized creature receives penalties when wielding it in both hands, just like you don't get the penalties for wielding a bastard sword in one hand if you have EWP. Weapon sizes used to work differently in 3.0, though I fail to remember what the rules were, it being Huge may or may not have any effect on its use apart from determining who can use it and with how many hands.

I may be wrong but seems kinda pointless and counterproductive to take EWP and still get a -2 penalty to attack.

Exactly.

Or, as the Kensai variant of fighter, you've suddenly got the whole deal (as it comes with a free EWP feat) with +1 on Attack and Damage rolls at level 1. Sure, this variant loses out on its 1st level fighter feat, but if you're just trying to work in a good level for proficiency, this would be it.

[Strormer]

I never used this as a pc, but one of my npcs used this with monkey grip to wield a large fullblade, meaning a gargantuan weapon or a giant's bastard sword. It was fun to see him walking around with that thing and if you play for creating something that looks cool in your head then it's a great choice, but it is far from optimized. Then again, my favorite build is dual bastard sword ranger so I'm about as far from op too. :smallbiggrin:

[Gavinfoxx]

I never used this as a pc, but one of my npcs used this with monkey grip to wield a large fullblade, meaning a gargantuan weapon or a giant's bastard sword. It was fun to see him walking around with that thing and if you play for creating something that looks cool in your head then it's a great choice, but it is far from optimized. Then again, my favorite build is dual bastard sword ranger so I'm about as far from op too. :smallbiggrin:

A Large Kaorti Resin Jovar, with Strongarm Bracers, gives you a weapon that is -0 to hit from size. It requires a single exotic weapon proficiency to do this. It is 3d6 damage, with a 18-20/x4 crit range, at the cost of 6000 gp for the bracers, the cost of the weapon, and a single exotic weapon proficiency feat. That's the optimized, 3.5e way of doing this. Of course you make the weapon Keen at some point...

[Ashtagon]

ok, let's contrast with the 3.0e SRD (http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html) then...

The fullblade is a Huge weapon. As it is two size increments bigger than a human, it can't be used by a human (short of enlarge person hijinks of course). 3.0, unlike 3.5, did not incorporate size-based penalties for using inappropriately-sized weapons. (there was no such thing as a "Large longsword").

However, one of the benefits of the EWP for bastard swords, dwarven war axes, and fullblades, is a virtual reduction in the weapon's size by one step. So with the EWP, any character can treat it as a Large weapon (down from Huge), which means humans can wield it two-handed with the EWP.

otoh, a Huge weapon implies a weapon length of approximately 12 feet. This does not match the fluff, which says it is "18 inches longer than a great sword". Since Medium great swords are about 6-7 feet long, this places a fullblade firmly in the Large weapon size category. Once again, the writers fail to match fluff with crunch.

The fullblade was never written up in 3.5e terms. However, it can probably be extrapolated from existing rules and treated as a Large bastard sword. Under 3.5e (but not 3.0e), there would be a -2 attack penalty for being inappropriately sized.

executive summary:

3.0e: 2-h weapon with EWP; cannot be used without EWP; cannot be used one-handed; 2d8 damage.

3.5e: 3.5e introduces an extra option:

with EWP, 2-h: -2 size penalty, 2d8 damage
with EWP, 1-h: -2 size penalty, -4 non-proficiency penalty, 2d8 damage can't wield
MWP only: can't wield

[Keneth]

There is no way to wield a large weapon in one hand even with EWP short of shenanigans such as monkey grip/strongarm bracers/powerful build. But other than that it looks fine.

A sensible DM however would simply stat Fullblade the same as a bastard sword and make it a separate weapon. That way you can have a medium-sized fullblade (that is, made for a medium-sized creature) and take no size penalty to attack.

[killem2]

There is no way to wield a large weapon in one hand even with EWP short of shenanigans such as monkey grip/strongarm bracers/powerful build. But other than that it looks fine.

A sensible DM however would simply stat Fullblade the same as a bastard sword and make it a separate weapon. That way you can have a medium-sized fullblade (that is, made for a medium-sized creature) and take no size penalty to attack.

So is the overwhelming vote on this, that a full blade in 3.5 terms would be:

Small: 1d8
Medium: 1d10
Large: 2d8
Huge: 3d8

[Larkas]

Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

You could argue that the Fullblade, even though it's Huge, is actually designed for medium-sized creatures. You would still need the EWP: Fullblade feat in order to be able to wield it, of course. The A&EG says that "A fullblade is also called an ogre’s greatsword.", it doesn't say it is actually made for ogres. Arguably, under 3.5 rules, it's the ogre that would suffer a -2 penalty to attack, since the Fullblade, and hence it's handle, are intended to be used by medium creatures.

PS:
otoh, a Huge weapon implies a weapon length of approximately 12 feet. This does not match the fluff, which says it is "18 inches longer than a great sword". Since Medium great swords are about 6-7 feet long, this places a fullblade firmly in the Large weapon size category. Once again, the writers fail to match fluff with crunch.

Actually, you're mixing things up here. The A&EG lists the Fullblade as Huge because that's how weapons were classified back then: Light was both Tiny and Small, One-handed was Medium-sized and Two-handed was Large. The Fullblade, under 3.5's classification, would arguably be called Two-handed too.

Anyways, maybe this section of the SRD might clear things up:


A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

This is from 3.5, but IIRC, 3.0 said more or less the same thing. You could wield a weapon up to one size category bigger than you, but these sizes didn't have anything to do with the actual size of the weapon as an object. The Greatsword, a "Large" weapon, would actually be a medium-sized object.

[Tsuzurao]

Dragon Magazine #333 covered the issue of Fullblades in 3.5e in one of the Q&A sections. To quote the relevant information...

(Although the fullblade is described in Arms and Equipment Guide as a "Huge" weapon, this is a reference to the 3.0 rules on weapon size. Using the 3.5 rules for weapons sizes, the fullblade used by Medium creatures is actually a Large two-handed weapon with a special rule that allows a Medium creature to wield it with two hands.)
Normally, the smallest creature that could wield a Huge fullblade (that is, a fullblade designed for two-handed use by a Huge creature) would be a Large creature. A Medium creature with the powerful build racial trait, such as a goliath or half-giant, with the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (fullblade) feat could also wield a Huge fullblade.


Nothing says either way if the wielder still takes the penalty for wielding an off-sized weapon, just that it can be wielded by a creature that would otherwise be too small to use it.

[pres_man]

What is a Fullblade in 3.5? Generally there are two types of thoughts.

Idea A: The fullblade is a large sized bastard sword.

Consequences: We already have rules for dealing with wrong sized weapons, so this is already covered, just use those rules as appropriate. Assuming you don't take the FAQ's understanding of bastard swords*, then this means that someone with EWP (bastard sword), could use a "fullblade" with two-hands with a -2 penalty (as wrong sized one-handed exotic weapon). A character with monkey grip could also use a "fullblade" with two hands with a -2 penalty (as wrong sized two-handed martial weapon). And a character with both monkey grip and EWP could wield it with one or two hands (as they choose) with a -2 penalty (as wrong sized one-handed exotic weapon).

Idea B: The fullblade is a unique two-handed exotic weapon (basically a "2-1/2 hand" sword similar to how a bastard sword is a "1-1/2 hand" sword).

Consequences: Without EWP, you couldn't wield it all. With EWP you can wield it two-handed without any penalty. Monkey grip has no effect because the weapon is correctly sized for you, just difficult to wield. You could use a smaller version with the EWP with one-hand at a -2 penalty and do as much damage as a greatsword (or close to it).

EDIT*: The 3.5 FAQ said that a bastard sword was not really a one-handed exotic, but instead a two-handed martial with a special trait. I find this logic weak, but if your group accepts this ruling then that would serious limit the options with the first interpretation above.

[Thurbane]

A large Warmace (CW p.158) could be wielded with by a proficient medium user as a two handed weapon for 3d6 damage: he'd take a -2 size penalty, and a -1 AC penalty. If you're willing to suck up the penalties, I think that's about as high a base weapon damage for a medium wielder as you can get (without Powerful Build, Strongarm Bracers, Heavy enchantment or similar).

[Larkas]

A large Warmace (CW p.158) could be wielded with by a proficient medium user as a two handed weapon for 3d6 damage: he'd take a -2 size penalty, and a -1 AC penalty. If you're willing to suck up the penalties, I think that's about as high a base weapon damage for a medium wielder as you can get (without Powerful Build, Strongarm Bracers, Heavy enchantment or similar).

You need to assume things a bit to get there. If you want to wield it in two hands by using EWP, like in the case of Fullblade, you have to assume both are analogues. You also have to assume that its -1 to AC, for already being too unwieldy at medium size, doesn't scale and altogether stops you from using it. Myself, I wouldn't let a player use it like that. It is a "bastard sword-like" martial weapon, with greataxe damage (Dmg (M)=1d12), but with the disadvantage of hurting your AC for it being too heavy. Letting a regular, medium-sized creature wield a large version for the cost of a single EWP sounds wrong. Fullblade is a special case in that it is a larger sword specifically built for medium-sized wielders, that is, even though it has the damage of a large bastard sword, it is actually described as a different weapon, and there is no "Fullmace". Of course, this stands only if you intend to burn just a feat in EWP, I'm not considering Monkey Grip or Powerful Build shenanigans, and I'm also assuming that Fullblade isn't in fact, just a large bastard sword :smallbiggrin:

[Thurbane]

You need to assume things a bit to get there. If you want to wield it in two hands by using EWP, like in the case of Fullblade, you have to assume both are analogues.
Pretty sure it's all RAW (maybe not RAI). Nothing in the description says the AC penalty increases for wielding a Warmace of inappropriate size (although it would be a perfectly reasonable houserule).

The Warmace is listed as a one-handed exotic weapon. The rules state that you can wield a one-handed weapon of one size category larger than yourself as a two-handed weapon at a -2 penalty.

[Ashtagon]

Is there any reason the warmace's -1 penalty should not stack with any other penalties, such as oversizing? It is after all, not actually a typed penalty, so by RAW stacks with anything.

[Thurbane]

Is there any reason the warmace's -1 penalty should not stack with any other penalties, such as oversizing? It is after all, not actually a typed penalty, so by RAW stacks with anything.
The Warmace's penalty is a -1 to AC, not to hit; but yes, it would stack with other AC penalties.

[Larkas]

Pretty sure it's all RAW (maybe not RAI). Nothing in the description says the AC penalty increases for wielding a Warmace of inappropriate size (although it would be a perfectly reasonable houserule).

The Warmace is listed as a one-handed exotic weapon. The rules state that you can wield a one-handed weapon of one size category larger than yourself as a two-handed weapon at a -2 penalty.

D'oh, of course you're right. Totally forgot about this little piece of (critical) ruling :smallfrown: