Project Librum Arcanum: Reorganizing the Eight Magical Schools

[JKTrickster]

Hi Playground!

I"m currently reorganizing and re-balancing the 8 magical schools. It is a lot of work, but I've always been interested in doing so. I've spoliered my motivation and reasons for doing so, because they're not really that important but they provide the direction and reasons for many of my actions.

The main motivation is because I want to homebrew all 8 Specialist School Based Spellcasters. I love the concept of Specialists and School based spell casters. It is also great that they are normally considered Tier 3 and fit right along with most of other melee characters.

One thing I always found....lacking was that each caster needs spells from other schools in order to "fit the flavor" or "compliment their ability". But that's natural right? Aside from Conjuration/Transmutation, no school is really independent and capable of being on its own...

But why?

That makes no sense. If each class is meant to represent ONE school, then it shouldn't need spells from other schools. That's a failure on the schools part.

Therefore I am first recalibrating the 8 schools.

tl;dr I want to make each and every school balanced and just as fun to play.

Now I've already started some basic outlines on changes and ideas I've had. I've separated them by school. That way you can look over and add input on the schools you are interested in.

I would really appreciate all of your help and criticism! I know this looks really rough right now but if it works, this can turn out pretty amazing!

Necromancy
1. Healing/Positive Energy is now a part of Necromancy. This always made sense and it seems to be a popular idea.

However if Negative Energy is used for ability drain/damage, shouldn't Positive Energy be used for buffing? Any good idea for what a good Positive Energy buff spell would look like? What spells should I add to Necromancy to reflect Positive Energy?

Further more, I will expand the role of the soul and spiritual energy to an entire subschool. This would definitely help expand the usefulness of this school beyond Negative Energy/Undead/Evil Stuff. How can I emulate soul/spirit in spells?


Divination
2. Divination will lose all of its "mind reading"/"detect lies" related spells. It will gain spells that are related to Time, speed bossting/slow spells, and other spells that allow it to have an upper hand Action Economy wise. A good example would be Anticipate Teleportation. The Diviner manipulates Time to stall the teleportation effect around the portal.

Also I'm adding in Luck based spells, basically to emulate "Fate" and stuff.

What else can I do? Is this strong enough to be independent?


Conjuration
3. Conjuration will be focused on Teleportation effects and Summoning spells. I will have to fix the current Summoning spells to become more broad since Conjuration lost the Creation subschool. Teleportation will also be expanded to be both utility and offensive on the battlefield.

This is a big task....what are some good suggestions to fix this?

The spells in that school will probably be refluffed and redistributed among the other schools to help balance them. This is really just be case-by-case when I run out of ideas on how to balance the school.


Evocation
4. Evocation is now home to a variety of Fire, Cold, Air, Light, Dark, Sound, and Electricity spells. It will not only be direct damage, but some BFC as well.

I want to add Earth and Acid, but I am afraid that this would make this school too strong. I don't want this school to have access to too many BFC spells and Damage spells. An interesting mechanic was that I wanted to create an interesting tool for the Evoker. It can use some BFC spells, but then it has the ability to "sacrifice" an existing Non-instantaneous spell to strengthen their next damage dealing spell.

For example, an Evoker can "sacrifice" a Wall of Fire to strengthen the Fireball they throw out.

If I put too many spells in this school it would just become to new Conjuration. Or do you feel it is too much already?

Abjuration
5. Abjuration will adopt all of the Force effect spells, even the offensive ones.

Furthermore, it will have a mastery over magic, especially as a deterrence against other schools. It will not only be defensive, but also be capable of preemptively shutting down other schools from unleashing devastating combos.

How can I expand Abjuration in order to make it more viable?


Enchantment and Illusion: Too Weak?
For Enchantment and Illusion....I have a dilemma.

In order to fix these two spells, I have to completely redo the idea of "Immunity". Otherwise these two schools would be shut down too easily.

Enchantment may have a bigger focus in the subconscious/emotions. Not entirely sure what to do with this school.

Illusion presents even a bigger problem. Outside of shadow spells, what can I do to help this school?

Transmutation: Too Strong?
And Transmutation is even trickier....what should comprise this school? Polymorph is insanely broken and the other spells are too good and unbalancing too. How can I redefine Transmutation in order to make it more in line with other schools?

I want to remove the entire Polymorph and transformation line. Is this a viable tactic? What can I replace it with?

I had an idea to make Transmutation work kind of how it works in Full Metal Alchemist. They modify the terrain mostly. This would mainly be [Earth] based BFC spells. But is that a good idea?

[Mystify]

Divination:
divination is mainly a support school. Even your suggested fix to incorporate time and fate have this problem. There is not point in manipulating the action economy if you can't do anything with it.
What you could do to help may be to give a diviner more class features, so they end up playing more like a gish, manipulating fate to their advantage, while doing some party support.

Transmutation:
polymorph can be its own school. Wait, that gives a Master of many forms. You could use that as a basis for designing a base class for polymorph, but there doesn't really need to be a dozen different ways to be a shapeshifter. Transmutation can get by just fine without it.
With that in mind, removing the polymorph spells and keeping everything else seems reasonable to me. I made a sorcerer based on that once, and it seemed reasonable to me.

[JKTrickster]

Yes the classes will definitely be a part of the fix. My end goal is so that each class is balanced to each other perfectly.

What should the class also provide? What if they want to play the Chronomancer (something that I want to make available for Divination). What spells should I add/homebrew?

About Transmutation, right now it is really disorganized. It has the [Earth] spells, some buff spells, and some spells that affect the body. It lacks a lot of the internal logic/pattern that the other schools have.

What should I do about this?

[erikun]

My thoughts on illusion would be to expand shadow and psudo-realistic spells. For example, rather than the catch-all Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation, something more like Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralConstruct.htm) that will allow you to create pretty much whatever creatures you want, without shadow Miracles or shadow Wish-granting genies or shadow Walls of Force. Black Tentacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm) is another spell that could fit in with the shadow-plane manipulation, without feeling unusual or out of place.

Another idea for illusion that I like is the creation and manipulation of light and sound. As such, Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/light.htm), Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm), Shout (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shout.htm), Sunburst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunburst.htm), and perhaps even Blindness/Deafness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blindnessDeafness.htm) would give illusion a bit more variety. I find it hard to believe that evocation would really miss them (perhaps Light and Darkness), but they'd give illusion a lot more tools to use.

[Daftendirekt]

I see the suggested Diviner-gish class being pretty similar to what Swiftblade already is...

[JKTrickster]

My thoughts on illusion would be to expand shadow and psudo-realistic spells. For example, rather than the catch-all Shadow Conjuration or Shadow Evocation, something more like Astral Construct (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/astralConstruct.htm) that will allow you to create pretty much whatever creatures you want, without shadow Miracles or shadow Wish-granting genies or shadow Walls of Force. Black Tentacles (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blackTentacles.htm) is another spell that could fit in with the shadow-plane manipulation, without feeling unusual or out of place.

Another idea for illusion that I like is the creation and manipulation of light and sound. As such, Light (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/light.htm), Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkness.htm), Shout (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shout.htm), Sunburst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sunburst.htm), and perhaps even Blindness/Deafness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blindnessDeafness.htm) would give illusion a bit more variety. I find it hard to believe that evocation would really miss them (perhaps Light and Darkness), but they'd give illusion a lot more tools to use.

That definitely seems to be great suggestions! I like your idea on expanding the Shadow schools into something more than just "weaker/lesser versions of other spells" since that adds some much needed versatility to Illusion.

The Light/Darkness idea is pretty good actually...and it can solve the problem of Evocation being too big! Two birds with one stone! But should I include Sound or no? It might not be appropriate....

Where should Dreams/dream related spells go? Enchantment? :smallconfused:


I see the suggested Diviner-gish class being pretty similar to what Swiftblade already is...

That is definitely where I was thinking as well! The Swiftblade is giving me plenty of ideas.

I also want the Oracle and the Chronomancers to be viable archetypes within the class as well. Hopefully each class will be able to be played several different ways without noticeable differences in power.

[Wavelab]

Depends what you mean with dream spells? Dream as in seeing the future(divination) in dreams or dream as in causing nightmares(enchantment)?

I also love the idea of focusing on a single school of magic(red wizard ftw!).

[JKTrickster]

Probably the latter in that case. So that would be enchantment? Makes sense I suppose...

I'm just trying to make every school versatile enough so the classes can fulfill a variety of archetypes.

What other archetypes am I missing that you feel should be adequately represented?

[Mystify]

I do like the idea of a chronomancer. Though, the concept can range from a mostly useless level of minute bonuses, to god-like power as you alter the timeline of the entire world. Obviously a balance needs to be strived for. I did come up with rules on how to incorporate time travel into a game smoothly, but I have no clue how you would balance it against traditional classes. the basic You get to invoke future versions of yourself, who can come in with arbitrary items and capabilities, at whatever location you want, and use them. You then have to acquire those items and capabilities, then go back in time and become the copy you invoked. This adequately allows you to handle all influence your future self has on the past, without having to rewind the campaign and re-run things.
However, that is probably a lot more extreme than you are picturing for the chronomancer.
Some possible things a chronomancer could do:
haste/slow
put people in temporal stasis
short-term precognition as insight bonuses to things
warp time to create movement speed bonuses/teleportation
create barriers of slow time that delay attacks going through them by a certain number of rounds, making it easy to move out of the way.
create zones in which time flows faster or slower
reverse time on a creature to undo damage done to it/bring it back to life
maintain/restore a creature's youth
rapidly age a create
rapidly age an object, causing it to deteriorate.
restore an object to an earlier, pristine state
Action economy shenanigans

[Wavelab]

Probably the latter in that case. So that would be enchantment? Makes sense I suppose...

I'm just trying to make every school versatile enough so the classes can fulfill a variety of archetypes.

What other archetypes am I missing that you feel should be adequately represented?

Well Complete Mage lists a few. I'll pop them down with a short description of each(instead of doing my homework).

Blaster:
A basic "shoot, shoot some more, shoot again, shoot with your eyes closed and then ask questions" type character who exhausts a lot of spells to kill as many enemies as possible.

Booster:
Spends his/her time to make himself and his/her party more powerful by using buffs.

Controller:
Enslaves creatures to do his/her bidding.

Generalist:
Tries to be as versatile as possible to cover any situation.

Necromaster:
They try to have hordes of undead following them around.

Sniper:
Focuses on firing one very powerful spell at a single enemy, killing the most powerful targets first.

Spy:
Gathers information for the party.

Strategist:
Manipulates the battlefield to their party's advantage.

Summoner:
Summons stuff.

Warrior:
Uses magic as a melee weapon, conjuring weapons, shapeshifting, buffing, etc.

Hope this helps

[erikun]

Here are some expanded ideas.

Conjuration keeps summons and teleports, and loses most of everything else. Energy-manipulation and wall-creation get tossed into Evocation, so outside of a few oddball spells (Grease, Glitterdust) everything would have someplace to go.

You'd have a problem with first-level summons only lasting one round, but should be mostly okay beyond that.

Evocation would pick up the Conjuration blasting spells, and the various wall effects. Give it the various [Earth] and [Wind] spells from Transmutation (plus Fly), and you have a good Elementalist or inner-planes-energy-manipulator school. The guy flying around chucking fireballs and reshaping the ground is pretty close to what I'd imaging an Evoker would be, anyways. Plus, the wall spells and stuff like Fly, Flesh to Stone, and others will give Evocation some variety and options.

Limiting the school to the "common" energy types would be an excuse to move [Force] and prismatic spells to Abjuration, and to move [Light], [Darkness], and [Sonic] to illusion. Evocation will hardly miss yet another 1d6/level spell.

Miracle can join its cousins Wish/Limited Wish in the universal school.

Illusion picks up all the [Light], [Darkness], and [Sonic] spells, under the logic that they are just more extreme versions of Ghost Sound and Silent Image. They'd also give Illusion a more brute-force method of resolving issues, if desired. Not sure where Holy Word/etc would fit, although it probably matters little. Not sure where dreaming spells would go for right now - Divination, perhaps?

Shadow Conjuration should be changed to be more like Astral Construct, so that you aren't creating illusionary creatures with real magical abilities.

Shadow Evocation should be changed to allow the caster to select the area for the spell (cone, burst, line, etc) and then deal 1d6/level type of damage, with the same 20% effectiveness if the target makes its save. This prevents the old shadow Wall of Force, and the newer shadow Fly or shadow Flesh to Stone.

Necromancy could take on healing, but that doesn't help the necromancer wizard. How did Dread Necromancer deal with this?

Transmutation, as mentioned, would lose the "elemental" spells like Stone to Flesh or Fly. Between this, and removing Polymorph entirely (new Polymorph school?) should tone down the school quite a bit.

One idea is to throw Enchantment into the Transmutation school, and rename it the "manipulation" school. Where Conjuration becomes the school of calling/creating allies and shuffling them around the battlefield, Transmutation ends up being the school of buffing allies, debuffing enemies, and just completely taking control of targets. Spells like Halt Undead or Command Undead would make sense with the new "Manipulation" school.

Enchantment, honestly, I have no idea where it would go. One idea is as above, sticking it into Transmutation for master-manipulation. One idea is with Illusion, as a catch-all trickery school. It probably won't be good enough to stand on its own, at least not so long as there are entire types of creatures that are still immune to everything it can do.

Abjuration gets [Force], it gets prismatic effects (more for Iot7V and thematic, than any good reason) and other sensible buffs, such as Mage Armor. Other than that, it would probably remain mostly the same. Magic Missile and Orb of Force give it a few offensive weapons.

Do realize what happens if Dispel Magic &co is not a universal spell, though.

Divination is kind of a toss-up. On the one hand, there is the idea of just dissolving the entire school and making its spells universal. It would be kind of hard to run a wizard without Read Magic and Detect Magic, after all, so those two would need to be universal at least. On the other hand, the school itself isn't enough to stand up on its own. I mean, I really like divination, but a d4, poor BAB, poor AC character who can only divine doesn't sound like a fun time for me.

One idea is to allow the diviner-class limited access to all schools; something like "you may learn spells from any school, but only at two levels below your highest spell level." It would fit in with the 'master of knowledge' school theme. Another option would be to give the class some divining-appropriate abilities, such as higher BAB or insight AC explained as foresight.

Illusion's dreaming spells (perhaps Enchantment's, too) could fit in with Divination.

If you're looking at building this school up to the rest of the others, then you likely have a lot of work to do. The other schools can probably work with just reshuffling spells a bit and changing a few of them. Divination will likely involve creating new spells - likely quite a number of new spells.

[Shadowknight12]

Replying to your other post here:


I understand why you want to place [Earth] spells in Evocation. In fact I initially wanted to do so to. But I was afraid of making Evocation too strong.

You want to separate the BFCs out of Evocation....but that doesn't work because [Earth] is almost completely BFC. That actually doesn't quite work. And then if I do manage to split it up, then it doesn't really make sense. If Evocation is the Elementalist, then it should have ALL of those spells. But that creates a big imbalance.

I was more or less referring to non-earth and non-acid BFCs. Off the top of my head, the only BFC earth and acid have are:

Acid Fog, Move Earth, Transmute Rock to Mud (and viceversa) and Wall of Stone. The Wall was already going to be in Evocation, so we rule it out. I see no problem with the Evoker retaining Acid Fog and Move Earth at all, it very much fits with the theme. The Transmute spells could simply lose the Earth tag (after all, Flesh to Stone does not have that descriptor) and remain in Transmutation.

If you want a fluff reason for it, the transmuter is not manipulating the elemental forces. They are altering states of matter or alchemically transforming earth to mud or flesh to stone. It's like turning blood into water and viceversa. You could have a whole Subschool within Transmutation that does this (the Alchemy subschool?) and is all about slowly mastering the art of transforming one thing into another. It's not about the elements or the substances, it's about the fundamental cosmic force of Change.


If possible, I would want transmutation to be buffs + transformation. But that...gets messy. Here's why:

The following schools would have BFC:

Transmtuation

The following schools would have buffs:

Transmutation
Enchantment
Divination
Abjuration
Necromancy

Now why do so many schools have buffs?

Buffs are a very big part of D&D, actually. It doesn't really sound all that contrived.


Enchantment provides moral bonuses. We already covered this. If you want to add in magical enchantments as well, that doubles this.

You could also just move the magical enchantments to Transmutation, and solve your problem. I don't really mind making that sacrifice for Transmutation to remain viable.


Divination provides insight bonuses to attack, init, etc. It will probably also provide Luck bonuses because I believe Divination should be the only school with Luck/Fate related spells.

I agree, though I think a couple of Fate spells could be Universal.


Abjuration is the protective/deterrent school so its buffs would resemble shield, and force bonuses of some sort. I'll group it in here as protective spells but yeah.

Indeed.


Now Necromancy is probably the one that surprises you the most. Remember how Necromancy is positive and negative energy? Well if negative energy drains, that I feel we should homebrew/assign some spells to reflect positive energy buffs. Not sure how to do it but it logically makes sense.

Well, an alternate take on this is to imagine health not as the middle of the road between "decrepit" and "superhuman" but as a peak. Being in perfect physical health really IS as far as it goes. You can't do any better than that.

So the negative energy aspect of necromancy is very obvious (pulls you down from "Health" to "Dead"), but the opposite to that is not "Pulls you from "Health" to "Something even better"", but "Pulls you from "Dead" to "Health"". You give all the healing, resurrecting and restorative effects to the positive energy aspect, and then you give the white necros an incentive to use them in combat (because the current philosophy is that spending an action healing in combat when you could be doing something to bring the encounter to an end is a waste of an action).

An idea to do this is to give ALL healing spells a rider effect that makes them very useful in combat but a waste outside it. Buffs COULD be a way to do this ("Free +2 to Con with your Cure Wounds spell, come and get them before they sell out!"), but I think we should branch to something truly esoteric.

Some ideas: Temp HP (that lasts longer but is a smaller amount than the morale version you find in the Enchanment school), Fast Healing, Regeneration, a "pool of ability scores or levels" that auto-counteracts ability/energy drain/damage, a pool of "get out of X condition free" points that counteracts stuff like Exhaustion, Fatigue and the like (example: heal the raging barbarian and when his rage ends, the imaginary pool diminishes somewhat and he's not Fatigued. Later on, he gets hit with a Waves of Exhaustion spell, and the pool spends entirely to save him from the effect), a pool of "positive energy" that negates negative energy damage, a minor enchantment that adds xd6 positive energy damage to the target's attacks, a brilliant aura that deals xd6 positive energy damage to ALL creatures around it (double to undead), and so on. You know, atypical, positive-energy-oriented buffs.

Thoughts?


See how this becomes an issue? Transmutation ends up being other schools + BFC and that's really hard to balance. Especially when some of those schools are like Divination.

You see the issue here?

I do, but it's easy to fix. What I suggest (and I will do this at the end of this post to avoid clutter) is to grab ALL of the core wizard buffs and put them together in a single list, so that we can divide them into schools as per your new criteria and see if there is really a problem or you're merely misjudging the scope of the changes.


Finally, I have a huge issue with Illusion right now. I simply can't create a viable school. How are illusions supposed to do any real damage to the opponent? In the past, illusions were tricky because it might be a real spell or an illusion.

Well, see, the entire point of an illusionist is not to damage, but to deceive. An illusionist does not defeat an enemy, they trick the enemy into defeating themselves. I'll take a look at the current school at the end of my post and let you know how it looks.

Thus far, I am going for a "manipulation of the senses" theme to it, to justify the Light, Darkness and Sound shift from Evocation to it.


But against an illusionist who only have illusions and shadow spells....that pales in comparison to being any other caster. How should I balance this?

See the end of my post where I will gather some solid data and let you know.


I'm going to create a new thread for this. Hope you can continue the discussion with me!

I am already there. :smallamused:


Evocation would pick up the Conjuration blasting spells, and the various wall effects. Give it the various [Earth] and [Wind] spells from Transmutation (plus Fly), and you have a good Elementalist or inner-planes-energy-manipulator school. The guy flying around chucking fireballs and reshaping the ground is pretty close to what I'd imaging an Evoker would be, anyways. Plus, the wall spells and stuff like Fly, Flesh to Stone, and others will give Evocation some variety and options.

I just want to say I really approve of this idea. I'll include it at the end of the post as an alternative and see if it really makes things that unbalanced.


Limiting the school to the "common" energy types would be an excuse to move [Force] and prismatic spells to Abjuration, and to move [Light], [Darkness], and [Sonic] to illusion. Evocation will hardly miss yet another 1d6/level spell.

Miracle can join its cousins Wish/Limited Wish in the universal school.

Couldn't agree more.


Do realize what happens if Dispel Magic &co is not a universal spell, though.

I do want to chime in and say "Give abjurers nice things too." Dispel Magic is probably the best weapon in an Abjurer's arsenal. If you take that away, what can an abjurer do, proactively? Cast Magic Missile or Prismatic Spray?


Divination is kind of a toss-up. On the one hand, there is the idea of just dissolving the entire school and making its spells universal. It would be kind of hard to run a wizard without Read Magic and Detect Magic, after all, so those two would need to be universal at least. On the other hand, the school itself isn't enough to stand up on its own. I mean, I really like divination, but a d4, poor BAB, poor AC character who can only divine doesn't sound like a fun time for me.

One idea is to allow the diviner-class limited access to all schools; something like "you may learn spells from any school, but only at two levels below your highest spell level." It would fit in with the 'master of knowledge' school theme. Another option would be to give the class some divining-appropriate abilities, such as higher BAB or insight AC explained as foresight.

You do realise that a Diviner is basically unkillable, right? They don't need any advantages because Divination already has things like Foresight, Time Stop, Haste, Contact Other Plane, Scry and so on. Don't underestimate the power of knowledge. Oh, and the power to control time. The sole reason a Diviner remains balanced is because they know exactly how to kill you in your sleep, but they have terrible weapon proficiencies, half BAB and no offensive spells to do so. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this gave Abjuration and Transmutation a serious run for their money as the best class to make a gish with.

------

Also I just realised something: The worst enemies for this redesign are the wands and the scrolls. Seriously, they defeat the entire purpose of the system (unless you argue that if a spell is not on the Evoker's spell list, it doesn't count and therefore it's impossible for them to use without UMD, in which case suddenly everything is fine again).

------

Tentative classification of Wiz/Sorc spells:

0-Level

Abjur
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Conj
?
Div
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Ench
Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action.
Evoc
Ray of Frost: Ray deals 1d3 cold damage.
Acid Splash: Orb deals 1d3 acid damage.
Illus
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Flare: Dazzles one creature (-1 on attack rolls).
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.
Necro
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target.
Trans
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things.
Univ
Arcane Mark: Inscribes a personal rune (visible or invisible).
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Message: Whispered conversation at distance.
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.

1st-Level

Abjur
Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Hold Portal: Holds door shut.
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus.
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5).
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles.
Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal disk that holds 100 lb./level.
Conj
Mount: Summons riding horse for 2 hours/level.
Summon Monster I: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages.
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.
Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft.
Identify: Determines properties of magic item.
True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll.
Ench
Charm Person: Makes one person your friend.
Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds.
Hypnotism: Fascinates 2d4 HD of creatures.
Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber.
Evoc
Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4).
Shocking Grasp: Touch delivers 1d6/level electricity damage (max 5d6).
Illus
Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures.
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance.
Magic Aura: Alters object’s magic aura.
Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design.
Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands.
Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level.
Necro
Animate Rope: Makes a rope move at your command.
Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage.
Trans
Enlarge Person: Humanoid creature doubles in size.
Jump: Subject gets bonus on Jump checks.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
Reduce Person: Humanoid creature halves in size.
Univ
Erase: Mundane or magical writing vanishes.
Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly.

2nd-Level

Abjur
Arcane Lock: Magically locks a portal or chest.
Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying.
Protection from Arrows: Subject immune to most ranged attacks.
Resist Energy: Ignores first 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Conj
Summon Monster II: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Div
Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
Ench
Daze Monster: Living creature of 6 HD or less loses next action.
Detect Thoughts: Allows “listening” to surface thoughts.
Hideous Laughter: Subject loses actions for 1 round/level.
Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD.
Touch of Idiocy: Subject takes 1d6 points of Int, Wis, and Cha damage.
Evoc
Acid Arrow: Ranged touch attack; 2d4 damage for 1 round +1 round/three levels.
Flaming Sphere: Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level.
Gust of Wind: Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures.
Levitate: Subject moves up and down at your direction. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Pyrotechnics: Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke.
Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/four levels (max 3).
Whispering Wind: Sends a short message 1 mile/level.
Illus
Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time.
Continual Flame: Makes a permanent, heatless torch.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
Hypnotic Pattern: Fascinates (2d4 + level) HD of creatures.
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks.
Magic Mouth: Speaks once when triggered.
Minor Image: As silent image, plus some sound.
Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per three levels, max 8).
Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object.
Phantom Trap: Makes item seem trapped.
Shatter: Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.
Necro
Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blinded or deafened.
Command Undead: Undead creature obeys your commands.
False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10). Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Ghoul Touch: Paralyzes one subject, which exudes stench that makes those nearby sickened.
Spectral Hand: Creates disembodied glowing hand to deliver touch attacks.
Trans
Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Cat’s Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness.
Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
Fox’s Cunning: Subject gains +4 Int for 1 min./level.
Owl’s Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Spider Climb: Grants ability to walk on walls and ceilings.
Univ
?

3rd-Level

Abjur
Dispel Magic: Cancels magical spells and effects.
Explosive Runes: Deals 6d6 damage when read.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Nondetection: Hides subject from divination, scrying.
Protection from Energy: Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Sepia Snake Sigil: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader.
Conj
Blink: You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 round/level.
Phantom Steed: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level.
Summon Monster III: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Arcane Sight: Magical auras become visible to you.
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance: Hear or see at a distance for 1 min./level.
Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves.
Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, -1 to AC, reflex saves, and attack rolls.
Tongues: Speak any language.
Ench
Deep Slumber: Puts 10 HD of creatures to sleep.
Heroism: Gives +2 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks.
Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Rage: Subjects gains +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, -2 to AC.
Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.
Evoc
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius.
Flame Arrow: Arrows deal +1d6 fire damage.
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage.
Sleet Storm: Hampers vision and movement.
Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
Illus
Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%.
Illusory Script: Only intended reader can decipher.
Invisibility Sphere: Makes everyone within 10 ft. invisible.
Major Image: As silent image, plus sound, smell and thermal effects.
Secret Page: Changes one page to hide its real content.
Necro
Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse.
Halt Undead: Immobilizes undead for 1 round/level.
Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted.
Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp.
Trans
Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.
Keen Edge: Doubles normal weapon’s threat range.
Magic Weapon, Greater: +1/four levels (max +5).
Shrink Item: Object shrinks to one-sixteenth size.
Stinking Cloud: Nauseating vapors, 1 round/level.
Water Breathing: Subjects can breathe underwater.
Univ
?

4th-Level

Abjur
Fire Trap: Opened object deals 1d4 damage +1/level.
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Resilient Sphere: Force globe protects but traps one subject.
Stoneskin: Ignore 10 points of damage per attack.
Conj
Black Tentacles: Tentacles grapple all within 20 ft. spread.
Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance.
Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement.
Summon Monster IV: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Arcane Eye: Invisible floating eye moves 30 ft./round.
Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping.
Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature.
Scrying: Spies on subject from a distance.
Ench
Charm Monster: Makes monster believe it is your ally.
Confusion: Subjects behave oddly for 1 round/level.
Crushing Despair: Subjects take -2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks.
Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level.
Geas, Lesser: Commands subject of 7 HD or less.
Evoc
Fire Shield: Creatures attacking you take fire damage; you’re protected from heat or cold.
Ice Storm: Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40 ft. across.
Wall of Fire: Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall deals 2d6 damage +1/level.
Wall of Ice: Ice plane creates wall with 15 hp +1/level, or hemisphere can trap creatures inside.
Illus
Hallucinatory Terrain: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like).
Illusory Wall: Wall, floor, or ceiling looks real, but anything can pass through.
Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible.
Phantasmal Killer: Fearsome illusion kills subject or deals 3d6 damage.
Rainbow Pattern: Lights fascinate 24 HD of creatures.
Shadow Conjuration: Mimics conjuration below 4th level, but only 20% real.
Shout: Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage.
Necro
Animate Dead: Creates undead skeletons and zombies.
Bestow Curse: -6 to an ability score; -4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action.
Contagion: Infects subject with chosen disease.
Trans
Enlarge Person, Mass: Enlarges several creatures.
Reduce Person, Mass: Reduces several creatures.
Solid Fog: Blocks vision and slows movement.
Stone Shape: Sculpts stone into any shape.
Univ
Mnemonic Enhancer: Wizard only. Prepares extra spells or retains one just cast.

5th-Level

Abjur
Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane.
Interposing Hand: Hand provides cover against one opponent.
Mage’s Private Sanctum: Prevents anyone from viewing or scrying an area for 24 hours.
Wall of Force: Wall is immune to damage.
Conj
Mage’s Faithful Hound: Phantom dog can guard, attack.
Secret Chest: Hides expensive chest on Ethereal Plane; you retrieve it at will.
Summon Monster V: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Teleport: Instantly transports you as far as 100 miles/level.
Div
Contact Other Plane: Lets you ask question of extraplanar entity.
Dream: Sends message to anyone sleeping.
Nightmare: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, fatigue.
Prying Eyes: 1d4 +1/level floating eyes scout for you.
Ench
Dominate Person: Controls humanoid telepathically.
Feeblemind: Subject’s Int and Cha drop to 1.
Hold Monster: As hold person, but any creature.
Mind Fog: Subjects in fog get -10 to Wis and Will checks.
Symbol of Sleep: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber.
Telepathic Bond: Link lets allies communicate.
Evoc
Cone of Cold: 1d6/level cold damage.
Overland Flight: You fly at a speed of 40 ft. and can hustle over long distances. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Illus
False Vision: Fools scrying with an illusion.
Mirage Arcana: As hallucinatory terrain, plus structures.
Persistent Image: As major image, but no concentration required.
Seeming: Changes appearance of one person per two levels.
Shadow Evocation: Mimics evocation below 5th level, but only 20% real.
Necro
Blight: Withers one plant or deals 1d6/level damage to plant creature.
Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4-6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage.
Magic Jar: Enables possession of another creature.
Symbol of Pain: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain.
Waves of Fatigue: Several targets become fatigued.
Trans
Animal Growth: One animal/two levels doubles in size.
Passwall: Creates passage through wood or stone wall.
Transmute Mud to Rock: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Transmute Rock to Mud: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Univ
Permanency X: Makes certain spells permanent.
Sending: Delivers short message anywhere, instantly.
Telekinesis: Moves object, attacks creature, or hurls object or creature.

6th-Level

Abjur
Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft.
Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but +20 on check.
Globe of Invulnerability: As lesser globe of invulnerability, plus 4th-level spell effects.
Guards and Wards: Array of magic effects protect area.
Forceful Hand: Hand pushes creatures away.
Repulsion: Creatures can’t approach you.
Conj
Summon Monster VI: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Analyze Dweomer: Reveals magical aspects of subject.
Legend Lore: Lets you learn tales about a person, place, or thing.
Ench
Geas/Quest: As lesser geas, plus it affects any creature.
Heroism, Greater: Gives +4 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks; immunity to fear; temporary hp.
Suggestion, Mass: As suggestion, plus one subject/level.
Symbol of Persuasion: Triggered rune charms nearby creatures.
Evoc
Acid Fog: Fog deals acid damage.
Chain Lightning: 1d6/level damage; 1 secondary bolt/level each deals half damage.
Control Water: Raises or lowers bodies of water.
Freezing Sphere: Freezes water or deals cold damage.
Move Earth: Digs trenches and build hills.
Wall of Iron M: 30 hp/four levels; can topple onto foes. Gains the [Earth] descriptor.
Illus
Mislead: Turns you invisible and creates illusory double.
Permanent Image: Includes sight, sound, and smell.
Programmed Image: As major image, plus triggered by event.
Shadow Walk: Step into shadow to travel rapidly.
Veil: Changes appearance of group of creatures.
Necro
Circle of Death: Kills 1d4/level HD of creatures.
Create Undead: Creates ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
Eyebite: Target becomes panicked, sickened, and comatose.
Symbol of Fear: Triggered rune panics nearby creatures.
Undeath to Death: Destroys 1d4/level HD of undead (max 20d4). Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Trans
Bear’s Endurance, Mass: As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/level.
Bull’s Strength, Mass: As bull’s strength, affects one subject/ level.
Cat’s Grace, Mass: As cat’s grace, affects one subject/level.
Eagle’s Splendor, Mass: As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level.
Flesh to Stone: Turns subject creature into statue.
Fox’s Cunning, Mass: As fox’s cunning, affects one subject/ level.
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass: As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/ level.
Stone to Flesh: Restores petrified creature.
Univ
Contingency: Sets trigger condition for another spell.
Disintegrate: Makes one creature or object vanish.
Mage’s Lucubration: Wizard only. Recalls spell of 5th level or lower.
Transformation: You gain combat bonuses.

7th-Level

Abjur
Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures.
Forcecage: Cube or cage of force imprisons all inside.
Grasping Hand: Hand provides cover, pushes, or grapples.
Mage’s Sword: Floating magic blade strikes opponents.
Prismatic Spray: Rays hit subjects with variety of effects.
Sequester: Subject is invisible to sight and scrying; renders creature comatose.
Spell Turning: Reflect 1d4+6 spell levels back at caster.
Conj
Ethereal Jaunt: You become ethereal for 1 round/level.
Instant Summons: Prepared object appears in your hand.
Phase Door: Creates an invisible passage through wood or stone.
Plane Shift: As many as eight subjects travel to another plane.
Summon Monster VII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Teleport, Greater: As teleport, but no range limit and no off-target arrival.
Teleport Object: As teleport, but affects a touched object.
Div
Arcane Sight, Greater: As arcane sight, but also reveals magic effects on creatures and objects.
Scrying, Greater: As scrying, but faster and longer.
Vision: As legend lore, but quicker and strenuous.
Ench
Hold Person, Mass: As hold person, but all within 30 ft.
Insanity: Subject suffers continuous confusion.
Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less.
Symbol of Stunning M: Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures.
Evoc
Control Weather: Changes weather in local area.
Delayed Blast Fireball: 1d6/level fire damage; you can postpone blast for 5 rounds.
Illus
Invisibility, Mass: As invisibility, but affects all in range.
Project Image: Illusory double can talk and cast spells.
Shadow Conjuration, Greater: As shadow conjuration, but up to 6th level and 60% real.
Simulacrum: Creates partially real double of a creature.
Necro
Control Undead: Undead don’t attack you while under your command.
Finger of Death: Kills one subject.
Symbol of Weakness: Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures.
Waves of Exhaustion: Several targets become exhausted.
Trans
Reverse Gravity: Objects and creatures fall upward.
Statue: Subject can become a statue at will.
Univ
Limited Wish: Alters reality—within spell limits.

8th-Level

Abjur
Clenched Fist: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or attacks your foes.
Prismatic Wall: Wall’s colors have array of effects.
Protection from Spells: Confers +8 resistance bonus.
Conj
Dimensional Lock: Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
Maze: Traps subject in extradimensional maze.
Planar Binding, Greater: As lesser planar binding, but up to 18 HD.
Summon Monster VIII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Discern Location: Reveals exact location of creature or object.
Moment of Prescience: You gain insight bonus on single attack roll, check, or save.
Prying Eyes, Greater: As prying eyes, but eyes have true seeing.
Temporal Stasis: Puts subject into suspended animation.
Ench
Antipathy: Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures.
Binding: Utilizes an array of techniques to imprison a creature.
Charm Monster, Mass: As charm monster, but all within 30 ft.
Demand: As sending, plus you can send suggestion.
Irresistible Dance: Forces subject to dance.
Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less.
Symbol of Insanity: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane.
Sympathy: Object or location attracts certain creatures.
Evoc
Incendiary Cloud: Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round.
Polar Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 1d6/level cold damage.
Illus
Scintillating Pattern: Twisting colors confuse, stun, or render unconscious.
Screen: Illusion hides area from vision, scrying.
Shadow Evocation, Greater: As shadow evocation, but up to 7th level and 60% real.
Shout, Greater: Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects.
Sunburst: Blinds all within 10 ft., deals 6d6 damage.
Necro
Clone: Duplicate awakens when original dies.
Create Greater Undead: Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft.
Symbol of Death: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures.
Trap the Soul: Imprisons subject within gem.
Trans
Iron Body: Your body becomes living iron.
Univ
Telekinetic Sphere: As resilient sphere, but you move sphere telekinetically.

9th-Level

Abjur
Crushing Hand: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or crushes your foes.
Freedom: Releases creature from imprisonment.
Imprisonment: Entombs subject beneath the earth.
Mage’s Disjunction: Dispels magic, disenchants magic items.
Prismatic Sphere: As prismatic wall, but surrounds on all sides.
Conj
Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
Refuge: Alters item to transport its possessor to you.
Summon Monster IX: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Teleportation Circle: Circle teleports any creature inside to designated spot.
Div
Foresight: “Sixth sense” warns of impending danger.
Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds.
Ench
Dominate Monster: As dominate person, but any creature.
Hold Monster, Mass: As hold monster, but all within 30 ft.
Evoc
Meteor Swarm: Four exploding spheres each deal 6d6 fire damage.
Illus
Shades: As shadow conjuration, but up to 8th level and 80% real.
Weird: As phantasmal killer, but affects all within 30 ft.
Necro
Astral Projection: Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
Soul Bind: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
Power Word Kill: Kills one creature with 100 hp or less.
Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level.
Trans
?
Univ
Wish: As limited wish, but with fewer limits.

Removed Spells:

Grease: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery.
Alter Self: Assume form of a similar creature.
Glitterdust: Blinds creatures, outlines invisible creatures.
Knock: Opens locked or magically sealed door.
Rope Trick: As many as eight creatures hide in extradimensional space.
Web: Fills 20-ft.-radius spread with sticky spiderwebs.
Tiny Hut: Creates shelter for ten creatures.
Minor Creation: Creates one cloth or wood object.
Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage.
Polymorph: Gives one willing subject a new form.
Enervation: Subject gains 1d4 negative levels.
Major Creation: As minor creation, plus stone and metal.
Planar Binding, Lesser: Traps extraplanar creature of 6 HD or less until it performs a task.
Baleful Polymorph: Transforms subject into harmless animal.
Fabricate: Transforms raw materials into finished items.
Planar Binding: As lesser planar binding, but up to 12 HD.
True Seeing: Lets you see all things as they really are.
Mage’s Magnificent Mansion: Door leads to extradimensional mansion.
Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying.
Polymorph Any Object: Changes any subject into anything else.
Gate: Connects two planes for travel or summoning.
Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
Shapechange: Transforms you into any creature, and change forms once per round.


Analysis:

Abjuration is fine. The Prismatic and Force lines keep it appealing at all levels and the protections are in fact quite good to have around. Splats make this school slightly better, but not by much.
Conjuration is very weak earlier on, but regains its footing in later levels. I believe adding splats will fix this problem, so I will endeavour to check out the Complete Series and Spell Compendium in a future post to prove this theory.
Divination is somewhat weak until level 9, where it gains one of the most powerful spells ever, but I also believe splats take care of this.
Enchantment is a rollercoaster. Some levels it gets next to nothing, some levels it gets a truckload. I stand by my suggestion to up the levels of Charm and Dominate and homebrew emotion spells.
Evocation became another rollercoaster, with some levels being very, very thin. However, I am sure that splat inclusion will actually make it swell quite a bit (especially when it comes to the Orb line).
Illusion swelled significantly, and is likely the school with the most spells presently. It is not weak or thinned out in the slightest. Splat addition will only compound this issue.
Necromancy remained mostly the same, though I seriously need to include the cleric version to get a proper look at it. It remains a somewhat niche school.
Transmutation got gutted severely (having no 9th levels spells, even) and I am frankly not entirely sure if splat addition does anything to remedy this. Adding the polymorph line again would make it relevant at the risk of making it overpowered, though.
Universal got all the crucial spells. My personal guidelines for adding spells here was along the line of all-purpose, non-specific utility, such as distant communication, telekinesis and archetypal spells.

Core only, the schools are NOT balanced at all. Abjuration and Illusion are at the top, with Divination and Necromancy remaining niche but solid, Evocation and Enchantment being very inconstant and Transmutation and Conjuration being frankly disappointing.

Splat addition, to my belief, would in fact balance all the schools, and I shall test this theory in my upcoming post.

[JKTrickster]

I do like the idea of a chronomancer. Though, the concept can range from a mostly useless level of minute bonuses, to god-like power as you alter the timeline of the entire world. Obviously a balance needs to be strived for. I did come up with rules on how to incorporate time travel into a game smoothly, but I have no clue how you would balance it against traditional classes. the basic You get to invoke future versions of yourself, who can come in with arbitrary items and capabilities, at whatever location you want, and use them. You then have to acquire those items and capabilities, then go back in time and become the copy you invoked. This adequately allows you to handle all influence your future self has on the past, without having to rewind the campaign and re-run things.
However, that is probably a lot more extreme than you are picturing for the chronomancer.
Some possible things a chronomancer could do:
haste/slow
put people in temporal stasis
short-term precognition as insight bonuses to things
warp time to create movement speed bonuses/teleportation
create barriers of slow time that delay attacks going through them by a certain number of rounds, making it easy to move out of the way.
create zones in which time flows faster or slower
reverse time on a creature to undo damage done to it/bring it back to life
maintain/restore a creature's youth
rapidly age a create
rapidly age an object, causing it to deteriorate.
restore an object to an earlier, pristine state
Action economy shenanigans

Wow that really is a broad range of spells that I would have to homebrew. Looks like it's going take a take some time before Chronomancy is ready

:smallcool:

But okay not sure how I can implement "Pull multiple versions of yourselves out of time" without it getting out of control.

Also it seems like the only way to use Time offensively is by aging a character right? Otherwise it would mainly be utility and buffs?


Well Complete Mage lists a few. I'll pop them down with a short description of each(instead of doing my homework).

Blaster:
A basic "shoot, shoot some more, shoot again, shoot with your eyes closed and then ask questions" type character who exhausts a lot of spells to kill as many enemies as possible.

Probably the Evoker....do you feel another class should also have access to Blaster? Or only the Evoker?

Booster:
Spends his/her time to make himself and his/her party more powerful by using buffs.

I can think of at least a ton of different classes that can fulfill this archetype - Enchanter (morale buffs), Diviner (Insight Buffs and Luck Buffs), Abjurer (Defensive spells), and Transmuter (if I keep the buffs here).

I'm also trying to think of good Necromancy buffs because it should have some to reflect Positive Energy.

Controller:
Enslaves creatures to do his/her bidding.
Probably Enchanter? Should anyone else be able to do this?

Generalist:
Tries to be as versatile as possible to cover any situation.
Probably no one since each school is specialized :smalltongue:

Necromaster:
They try to have hordes of undead following them around.
Necromancer obviously

Sniper:
Focuses on firing one very powerful spell at a single enemy, killing the most powerful targets first.
Hmm....sounds like Evoker? Evoker is popping up a lot...

Spy:
Gathers information for the party.
Diviner? Maybe even Enchanter because they can read minds?

Strategist:
Manipulates the battlefield to their party's advantage.
The Conjurer! Mainly through Teleportation effects though. And wait...the Evoker does have BFC spells now.....

The Abjurer is also useful as this since they have Force effects as well.

Okay the Evoker seems WAY too versatile. How can I curb it down? :smallconfused:

Summoner:
Summons stuff.
Obviously the Conjurer.

Warrior:
Uses magic as a melee weapon, conjuring weapons, shapeshifting, buffing, etc.
Right now.....no one.

Hope this helps

The Evoker seems to fill out more roles than anyone else. Is this a problem?


Here are some expanded ideas.

Conjuration keeps summons and teleports, and loses most of everything else. Energy-manipulation and wall-creation get tossed into Evocation, so outside of a few oddball spells (Grease, Glitterdust) everything would have someplace to go.

You'd have a problem with first-level summons only lasting one round, but should be mostly okay beyond that.

How should I fix that low level problem? After all it should be fun to play from Level 1 to Level 20, and I can't think of a good enough solution.


Evocation would pick up the Conjuration blasting spells, and the various wall effects. Give it the various [Earth] and [Wind] spells from Transmutation (plus Fly), and you have a good Elementalist or inner-planes-energy-manipulator school. The guy flying around chucking fireballs and reshaping the ground is pretty close to what I'd imaging an Evoker would be, anyways. Plus, the wall spells and stuff like Fly, Flesh to Stone, and others will give Evocation some variety and options.

The problem is that I'm afraid that it might get too strong. With the inclusion of [Earth] spells, it gets a nice series of BFC spells and it becomes very versatile. Not sure if the other classes will be able to match it.


Limiting the school to the "common" energy types would be an excuse to move [Force] and prismatic spells to Abjuration, and to move [Light], [Darkness], and [Sonic] to illusion. Evocation will hardly miss yet another 1d6/level spell.

This is definitely a nice solution to illusion's predicaments.


Miracle can join its cousins Wish/Limited Wish in the universal school.

What else should go in the Universal school?


Illusion picks up all the [Light], [Darkness], and [Sonic] spells, under the logic that they are just more extreme versions of Ghost Sound and Silent Image. They'd also give Illusion a more brute-force method of resolving issues, if desired. Not sure where Holy Word/etc would fit, although it probably matters little. Not sure where dreaming spells would go for right now - Divination, perhaps?

Isn't Holy Word/etc Divine spells though? :smallconfused:

Hmmm I want to make Divination more focused on Time/Fate as opposed to just Scrying and Information. That allows it to be more versatile I think.


Shadow Conjuration should be changed to be more like Astral Construct, so that you aren't creating illusionary creatures with real magical abilities.

Shadow Evocation should be changed to allow the caster to select the area for the spell (cone, burst, line, etc) and then deal 1d6/level type of damage, with the same 20% effectiveness if the target makes its save. This prevents the old shadow Wall of Force, and the newer shadow Fly or shadow Flesh to Stone.

I like this! It makes Illusion a foce to be reckoned with.


Necromancy could take on healing, but that doesn't help the necromancer wizard. How did Dread Necromancer deal with this?

What help do you think it needs? Dread Necromancer basically improved the Undead cap but not much else I think....

I was also thinking of homebrewing some Soul related spells. These can range from "taking your soul for energy" to "calling souls to aid me in battle" etc. I got the inspiration from Master of Shrouds PrC but wanted to expand beyond just summoning incorporeal undead.


Transmutation, as mentioned, would lose the "elemental" spells like Stone to Flesh or Fly. Between this, and removing Polymorph entirely (new Polymorph school?) should tone down the school quite a bit.


Wouldn't Transmutation be stuck with only buffs then? That seems awfully weak...


One idea is to throw Enchantment into the Transmutation school, and rename it the "manipulation" school. Where Conjuration becomes the school of calling/creating allies and shuffling them around the battlefield, Transmutation ends up being the school of buffing allies, debuffing enemies, and just completely taking control of targets. Spells like Halt Undead or Command Undead would make sense with the new "Manipulation" school.

Oh that is interesting....never thought about that....

Should I combine schools though? I like the idea of 8 different schools, but that might just be sentimentalism.


Enchantment, honestly, I have no idea where it would go. One idea is as above, sticking it into Transmutation for master-manipulation. One idea is with Illusion, as a catch-all trickery school. It probably won't be good enough to stand on its own, at least not so long as there are entire types of creatures that are still immune to everything it can do.

I was thinking of making Immunity to Mind Affecting not entirely absolute.

At the same time, I was going to homebrew [Emotion] spells that bypass this Immunity. But I have no real ideas on coherent spells yet. How should this work?


Abjuration gets [Force], it gets prismatic effects (more for Iot7V and thematic, than any good reason) and other sensible buffs, such as Mage Armor. Other than that, it would probably remain mostly the same. Magic Missile and Orb of Force give it a few offensive weapons.

What I was thinking as well. Force effects really gives Abjuration some versatility and its standard "Anti-Magic" school makes it fun against spellcasters.


Do realize what happens if Dispel Magic &co is not a universal spell, though.

Yes I do...is this a major problem?


Divination is kind of a toss-up. On the one hand, there is the idea of just dissolving the entire school and making its spells universal. It would be kind of hard to run a wizard without Read Magic and Detect Magic, after all, so those two would need to be universal at least. On the other hand, the school itself isn't enough to stand up on its own. I mean, I really like divination, but a d4, poor BAB, poor AC character who can only divine doesn't sound like a fun time for me.


Yeah those would definitely be Universal, but I want to try and make Divination as strong as possible by making a Chronomancer. I am stuck on good Time related spells that won't wreck the game however.


One idea is to allow the diviner-class limited access to all schools; something like "you may learn spells from any school, but only at two levels below your highest spell level." It would fit in with the 'master of knowledge' school theme. Another option would be to give the class some divining-appropriate abilities, such as higher BAB or insight AC explained as foresight.

I want to stay away from "learning other schools" because that wouldn't be an elegant way out.



Illusion's dreaming spells (perhaps Enchantment's, too) could fit in with Divination.

If you're looking at building this school up to the rest of the others, then you likely have a lot of work to do. The other schools can probably work with just reshuffling spells a bit and changing a few of them. Divination will likely involve creating new spells - likely quite a number of new spells.

Yeah, but I'm prepared for the work!


EDIT: Shadowknight I will get to your points soon, looking them over right now :smallbiggrin:

[Gotterdammerung]

In my game I changed most "immunities" to a caster lvl or character lvl check simliar to dispel magic.

Also, I have a game where everyone plays a specialist wizard each player taking a different school. We have got a lot of mileage out of letting the players refluff certain spells to accomplish the same thing but from different school perspectives.

Spectral hand for instance

from an illusionist perspective it's comprised of quasi-real shadow stuff but accomplishes the same thing.

From a conjurer's perspective he creates a small movable portal that he can reach through to touch from range.

Sometimes, there are slight mechanical changes but the core goal and power of the spell remains the same and it pushes the players deeper into the role play of their specialist perspective.

[Shadowknight12]

EDIT: Shadowknight I will get to your points soon, looking them over right now :smallbiggrin:

Outstanding. :smallamused:

I will go over Complete Mage and Complete Arcane here and tackle Spell Compendium in my next post.

Complete Arcane:

0-LEVEL

Trans
Repair Minor Damage: Repairs 1 point of damage to any construct.

1ST-LEVEL

Evoc
Fist of Stone: Gain +6 Str and natural slam attack.
Orb of Acid, Lesser: Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 acid damage + 1d8/two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8).
Orb of Cold, Lesser: Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 cold damage + 1d8/two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8).
Orb of Electricity, Lesser: Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 electricity damage + 1d8/two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8).
Orb of Fire, Lesser: Ranged touch attack deals 1d8 fi re damage + 1d8/two levels beyond 1st (max 5d8).
Illus
Orb of Sound, Lesser: Ranged touch attack deals 1d6 sonic damage + 1d6/two levels beyond 1st (max 5d6).
Necro
Backbiter: Wooden-hafted weapon strikes wielder.
Trans
Low-Light Vision: See twice as far as a human in poor illumination.
Repair Light Damage: Repairs 1d8 +1/level damage (max +5) to any construct.

2ND-LEVEL

Evoc
Blades of Fire: Your melee weapons deal +1d6 fire damage for 1 round.
Earthen Grasp: Arm made of earth and soil grapples foes.
Fireburst: Adjacent subjects take 1d8/level fire damage.
Illus
Phantasmal Assailants: Nightmare creatures strike target for 4 Wis damage, 4 Dex damage.
Wall of Gloom: Shadow barrier obscures vision and deters passage.
Trans
Repair Moderate Damage: Repairs 2d8 +1/level damage (max +10) to any construct.
Swim: Subject gains swim speed, +8 bonus on Swim checks.
Whirling Blade: Hurled slashing weapon magically attacks all foes in 60-ft. line.
Univ
Familiar Pocket: Garment or container becomes extradimensional safe haven for your familiar.

3RD-LEVEL

Abjur
Sign of Sealing: Magical sigil protects door or chest, deals 1d4/level damage (max 10d4) if opened.
Mage Armor, Greater: Gives subject +6 armor bonus.
Div
Discern Shapechanger: Penetrates disguises and identifies shapechanging creatures.
Evoc
Stony Grasp: Arm made of soil and rock grapples foes.
Illus
Resonating Bolt: Sonic energy deals 1d4 damage/level (max 10d4).
Shadow Binding: Ribbonlike shadows daze and entangle creatures in 10-ft.-radius burst.
Necro
Corpse Candle: Ghostly hand and candle sheds light, affects incorporeal creatures.
Trans
Bands of Steel: Metallic bands immobilize or entangle target for 1 round/level.
Repair Serious Damage: Repairs 3d8 +1/level damage (max +15) to any construct.
Univ
Enhance Familiar: Your familiar receives +2 bonus on saves, combat rolls, and AC for 1 hour/level.

4TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Otiluke’s Dispelling Screen: Targeted dispel magic on any creatures and unattended items, +10 max on caster level check.
Orb of Force: Globe of force deals 1d6/level damage (max 10d6).
Resist Energy, Mass: Targeted creatures ignore damage from specified energy type.
Evoc
Blast of Flame: 60-ft. cone of fi re (1d6/level damage).
Blistering Radiance: Sphere of light blinds creatures, deals 2d6 fire damage in 50-ft.-radius spread.
Defenestrating Sphere: Cloudy gray sphere knocks enemies prone, hurls them upward for subsequent falling damage.
Orb of Acid: Ranged touch, 1d6/level acid damage and target might be sickened.
Orb of Cold: Ranged touch, 1d6/level cold damage and target might be blinded.
Orb of Electricity: Ranged touch, 1d6/level electricity damage and target might be entangled.
Orb of Fire: Ranged touch, 1d6/level fi re damage and target might be dazed.
Div
Anticipate Teleportation: Predict and delay the arrival of creatures teleporting into range by 1 round.
Assay Resistance: +10 bonus on caster level checks to defeat one creature’s spell resistance.
Unluck: Target remakes all rolls, uses worse result for 1 round/level.
Illus
Orb of Sound: Ranged touch, 1d4/level sonic damage and target might be deafened.
Necro
Burning Blood: Target takes 1d8 acid damage plus 1d8 fire damage/round.
Trans
Darkvision, Mass: Creatures in 10-ft. radius gain ability to see 60 ft. in total darkness.
Repair Critical Damage: Repairs 4d8 +1/level damage (max +20) to any construct.
Univ
Fortify Familiar: Your familiar gains 2d8 temporary hit points, +2 to armor, 25% chance to avoid extra sneak attack and critical hit damage.

5TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Aiming at the Target: +10 bonus on Concentration checks for previously cast spell.
Duelward: +4 on Spellcraft checks, counterspell as an immediate action.
Prismatic Ray: Ray of light blinds target, deals random effect.
Reciprocal Gyre: Creature or object takes 1d6 damage/level of spell affecting it (max 25d6).
Refusal: Spellcasters and creatures with spell-like abilities are prevented from entering an area.
Conj
Blink, Greater: Controlled blinking between the Material and Ethereal Planes grants defenses for 1 round/level.
Evoc
Arc of Lightning: Line of electricity between two creatures (1d6/level damage).
Freezing Fog: Fog slows creatures, obscures vision, hinders movement.
Fire Shield, Mass*: Creatures attacking allies take damage; allies are protected from fire or cold.
Fireburst, Greater: Subjects within 10 ft. take 1d8/level fire damage.
Fly, Mass: One creature/level flies at speed of 60 ft. Gains [Air] descriptor.
Vitriolic Sphere: Potent acid deals 1d4/level damage (max 15d4) plus possible damage in following two rounds.
Illus
Servant Horde: Create 2d6 unseen servants +1/level (max +15).
Necro
Spiritwall: Wall of spirit-forms causes panic, deals 1d10 damage if touched, can bestow negative levels if passed through.
Sword of Deception: Blade of energy attacks independently, deals 1d4 damage, penalizes subsequent save.

6TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Sign of Sealing, Greater: Magical sigil protects door, chest, or open space, deals 1d6/level damage (max 20d6) if opened.
Ench
Transfix: Humanoids freeze in place until condition you specify is met.
Illus
Illusory Pit: Creatures in area are stunned or knocked prone while believing they’re falling.
Necro
Arrow of Bone: Missile or thrown weapon gains +4 bonus, target takes 3d6 +1/level damage (max +15) or is slain.
Trans
Brilliant Blade: Weapon or projectiles shed light, ignore armor.
Univ
Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability: You transfer spells and casting ability into your familiar.

7TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Energy Immunity: Subject and equipment gain immunity to damage of specified energy type.
Otiluke’s Greater Dispelling Screen: Targeted dispel magic on any creatures and unattended items, +20 max on caster level check.
Evoc
Emerald Flame Fist: Touch attack deals 3d6 + 1/level fire damage (max +20); target can be engulfed by flame for additional damage.
Necro
Sword of Darkness: Blade of negative energy attacks independently, deals 1d4 damage, bestows one negative level.
Trans
Ghostform: You assume incorporeal form and gain some incorporeal traits and bonuses.

8TH-LEVEL

Div
Anticipate Teleportation, Greater: Predict and delay the arrival of creatures teleporting into range by 3 rounds.
Necro
Blackfire: Target is engulfed in black flame, takes 1d4 Con damage and becomes nauseated; flames and effects can spread to adjacent living creatures.
Flensing: Pain and trauma deal 2d6 damage, 1d6 Con damage, 1d6 Cha damage for up to 4 rounds.
Heart of Stone: Exchange your heart with stone heart to gain damage reduction, resistance to energy for 1 year.

9TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Absorption: You absorb targeted spell energy to power spells of your own.
Reaving Dispel: On a targeted dispel, steal spell power and effects for yourself.
Conj
Summon Elemental Monolith: Calls powerful elemental creature to fight for you.
Ench
Programmed Amnesia: Destroy, alter, or replace memories in target creature.
Illus
Superior Invisibility: Subject is invisible to sight, hearing, and scent for 1 min./level, and can attack.
Trans
Transmute Rock to Lava: Transforms one 10-ft. cube with subsequent fire damage and effects.
Univ
Sphere of Ultimate Destruction: Featureless black sphere moves 30 ft./round, disintegrates on ranged touch attack.

Removed Spells:

Leomund’s Hidden Lodge: Creates sturdy cottage camouflaged to blend into natural surroundings.
Fiendform: Assume form and abilities of fiendish creature, demon, or devil.

Complete Mage:

1st Level

Abjur
Karmic Aura: Any creature damaging you becomes fatigued for 3 rounds.
Evoc
Jet of Steam: 30-foot line of steam deals 1d4 fire damage/level (max. 5d4).
Conj
Summon Component: Create a noncostly spell component.
Div
True Casting: +10 on your next spell penetration roll.
Vigilant Slumber: Set specific conditions under which you immediately wake up.
Illus
Dawnburst: Illuminate all creatures in 10-foot radius; deal damage to light-sensitive creatures.
Necro
Death's Call: Scream deals 1 point of damage/level (more to swarms), fatigues all within 10 feet.
Reaving Aura: All creatures below 0 hit points within 10 feet of you take 1 point of damage.

2nd Level

Abjur
Arcane Turmoil: Targeted dispel magic on one subject, and subject loses one spell.
Attentive Alarm: As alarm, plus learn type and number of creatures that triggered alarm.
Div
Allied Footsteps: Subject knows direction and distance to your location.
Ench
Crystalline Memories: Read subject's surface thoughts, deal hit point and Int damage.
Evoc
Heart of Air: Gain +10 on Jump checks, +10 ft. to fly speed, use feather fall once.
Torrent of Tears: Subject is temporarily blinded and emotionally distraught.
Illus
Luminous Swarm: Target takes 1d6 damage/round, has 20% miss chance on attacks.
Necro
Escalating Enfeeblement: As ray of enfeeblement, but greater effect against already weakened target.
Trans
Boiling Blood: Deal 2d6 fire damage per round; second casting sickens target.

3rd Level

Abjur
Karmic Backlash: Any creature damaging you becomes exhausted for 2 rounds.
Repelling Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles, pushes away attackers.
Tenacious Dispelling: As targeted dispel magic, but second consecutive casting is more potent.
Div
Enduring Scrutiny: Become aware when target performs designated action.
Spellcaster's Bane: Gain +2 on dispel, counterspell checks; recognize cast spell and caster level.
Ench
Bothersome Babble: Subject's speech becomes incoherent; second casting makes speech painful.
Evoc
Caustic Smoke: Cloud deals 1d6 acid damage/round, blinds creatures.
Heart of Water: Gain swim speed, ability to breathe water, +5 on Escape Artist checks, freedom of movement once.
Illus
Deceptive Facade: Disguise appearance of another creature or object.
Ghost Lantern: Generate light that only you and companions can see.
Hood of the Cobra: You appear serpentine to target, and can deliver illusory poison bites.
Mask of the Ideal: Gain +4 bonus on skill checks, checks to influence enchanted or conjured creatures.
Pall of Twilight: Veil of shadow impedes sight and sound.
Phantasmal Strangler: Nightmare grapples and strangles one foe.
Necro
Animate Weapon: A weapon animates and fights for you.
Prickling Torment: Target is sickened, takes damage whenever it acts.
Trans
Unicorn Horn: You grow a horn that functions as a natural weapon.

4th Level

Abjur
Otiluke's Suppressing Field: Spells of a designated school or subtype are suppressed.
Div
Touch of Years: Target loses 3 points of Str, Dex, and Con; second casting blinds and deafens.
Ench
Melf's Slumber Arrows: Your arrows cause the target to fall asleep for 1 hour.
Vecna's Malevolent Whisper: Reduces living creature with 10 hp or lower to –9 hp.
Evoc
Caustic Mire: Acidic sludge slows progress, deals damage.
Incendiary Surge: Cone of fire deals 1d6/level damage, 1d8/level damage on consecutive casting.
Heart of Earth: Gain temporary hit points; +8 to resist bull rush, overrun, and trip; use stoneskin once.
Illus
Nightmare Terrain: Create patch of illusory terrain that hinders foes and allows you to hide.
Necro
Finger of Agony: Deals 3d6 damage per round and nauseates or sickens target.
Horrid Sickness: Subjects are nauseated or sickened.
Seed of Undeath: Subject that dies before spell expires rises as a zombie under your command.
Trans
Rebirth of Iron: Completely restores any metal item destroyed by rust, even if reduced to powder.
Rusted Blade: Touched weapon delivers filth fever.

5th Level

Abjur
Coat of Arms: Surround yourself with blades of force.
Conj
Dimension Jumper: Teleport up to 30 feet 1/round.
Fire and Brimstone: Subject takes fire damage, might be sickened.
Evoc
Heart of Fire: Gain +10 ft. to land speed, resistance to fire 10, use fire shield once.
Lightning Leap: Transform into bolt of lightning, damaging foes and transporting yourself.
Illus
Channeled Sonic Blast: Deal sonic damage in cone; area and damage increase based on casting time.
Fever Dream: Illusory vision fatigues or exhausts target, makes spellcasting difficult.
Resounding Thunder: Lasting sound deals 4d6 sonic damage per round, deafens creatures within area.
Retributive Image: Created illusion deals damage to those who disbelieve it.
Necro
Channeled Lifetheft: Fatigue, exhaust, and deal damage to target, depending on casting time.
Cryptwarden's Grasp: Bestow mummy rot with your touch.
Touch of Vecna: Deal negative energy damage and paralysis with your touch.
Trans
Flaying Tendrils: You grow mind flayer tentacles, which you can use to attack your foes.
Unicorn Blood: Gain immunity to poison, compulsion, charm effects; bestow temporary hp once.
Univ
Arcane Fusion: Cast two spells you know without expending additional slots. (Sorcerer only.)

6th Level

Abjur
Karmic Retribution: Any creature damaging you becomes stunned for 1 round.
Prismatic Aura: Shield of colors offers concealment and damages your attackers.
Conj
Familiar Refuge: Safely teleport self to familiar or familiar to self as a swift action.
Mordenkainen's Trusted Bloodhound: Create a ferocious hound that tracks and attacks foes.
Steal Summoning: Take control of another caster's summoned monster.
Tactical Teleportation: Teleport one creature/3 levels a short distance.
Ench
Endless Slumber: Subject falls asleep and is not easily roused.
Evoc
Lingering Flames: Eruption of fire deals 1d6 damage per caster level each round for 3 rounds.
Storm of Fire and Ice: Storm provides concealment, slows movement, deals cold and fire damage.
Trans
Smoky Confinement: Subject is imprisoned within a Tiny receptacle.
Univ
Rary's Arcane Conversion: Instantly lose a prepared wizard spell and replace it with another spell from your spellbook. (Wizard only.)

7th Level

Abjur
Energy Absorption: Target gains resistance 10 to energy; can turn one energy attack into healing.
Necro
Necrotic Curse: Cure spells in area deal damage, living beings don't heal with rest.
Retributive Enervation: Any living creature that strikes you in melee gains a negative level.
Seed of Undeath, Greater: As seed of undeath, but affects an area.
Trans
Adamantine Wings: Wings grant fly 60 ft., provide natural attacks.
Choking Cobwebs: Cobwebs provide concealment, slow movement, sicken creatures.
Unicorn Heart: Gain speed 60, +4 on Str-, Dex-, and Con-based checks; use dimension door once.

8th Level

Abjur
Mysterious Redirection: Attacks against you have 50% chance to strike adjacent target instead.
Prismatic Bow: Creates bow that allows seven attacks, each with a different prismatic effect.
Evoc
Deadly Lahar: Create a wave of molten volcanic rock that sticks to creatures.
Necro
Touch of the Graveborn: Melee touch attack deals 10d6 damage or controls undead creature.
Univ
Arcane Fusion, Greater: Cast two spells without expending additional slots. (Sorcerer only.)

9th Level

Abjur
Lash of Force: Whip of force strikes for 5d6 damage;
can become a 15d6 line attack.
Prismatic Deluge: Call down a prismatic effect over
a wide area.
Conj
Dimension Jumper, Greater: Teleport yourself up to 60 feet once per round.
Genius Loci: Create a guardian spirit for a specific location.
Evoc
Deadly Sunstroke: Creatures take 1d6 fire damage/
level and become fatigued.
Towering Thunderhead: Clouds provide concealment, block ranged attacks, empower sonic or electricity spells.

Removed Spells:

Resinous Tar: Sticky substance slows movement or renders object difficult to drop.
Incendiary Slime: Create slippery substance like grease, but highly flammable.
Shape of the Hellspawned Stalker: You take the form of a hell hound.
Aspect of the Icy Hunter: You take the form of a winter wolf.
Form of the Threefold Beast: You take the form of a chimera.
Dreaded Form of the Eye Tyrant: You take the form of a beholder.
Unyielding Form of Inevitable Death: You take the form of a marut.

Analysis:

Abjuration got some VERY nice things, especially in Complete Arcane at level 9. Absorption and Reaving Dispel are frankly amazing and can rival any other 9th-level spell, firmly cementing Abjuration as a tempting school. I think it might be a bit TOO good, particularly since both force and prismatic spells keep appearing repeatedly, and only one of them is enough. I think prismatic spells should be move to another school (Illusion? Evocation?).
Conjuration remained EXACTLY as it was in core, being very thin in the first few levels and then getting lots of good spells later on. This needs to be fixed.
Divination got the ability to penetrate Spell Resistance in various ways, which is frankly hilarious because it doesn't have a whole lot of spells that can offensively affect others. It got a couple of other good spells, so it remains very tempting as well.
Evocation was fixed, mainly thanks to the Orb line of spells. Granted, the school does not have a whole lot of variety (just quite a lot of ways to deal energy damage) but it got a few buffs and BFC to round it up.
Enchantment was not given much, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing. I have to see if it gets spells at the levels core lacks. If that's the case, it should round up the school very well.
Illusion was not given a lot (except for Complete Mage, which gave it a lot of spells at level 4), which is good, because it was already the school with the most spells in core. It remains very tempting.
Necromancy was given a couple of good spells, but not too many, therefore remaining very solid but still niche. I am not too worried, because Libris Mortis does wonders for this school and I still have to see SpC.
Transmutation was left out in the cold as well, with only a handful of (admittedly nice) buffs in both books. This needs to be fixed.

Final words: Abjuration might be too powerful. Illusion and Evocation might be JUST at the edge between "balanced" and "overpowered." Necromancy and Divination are fine. Enchantment might benefit from a few more spells. Conjuration and Transmutation needs some SEVERE beefing up, at the exact opposite ends of the spectrum (Transmutation needs better mid-to-high-level spells, Conjuration needs better low-to-mid-level spells).

Spell Compendium next!

[JKTrickster]

Replying to your other post here:

I was more or less referring to non-earth and non-acid BFCs. Off the top of my head, the only BFC earth and acid have are:

Acid Fog, Move Earth, Transmute Rock to Mud (and viceversa) and Wall of Stone. The Wall was already going to be in Evocation, so we rule it out. I see no problem with the Evoker retaining Acid Fog and Move Earth at all, it very much fits with the theme. The Transmute spells could simply lose the Earth tag (after all, Flesh to Stone does not have that descriptor) and remain in Transmutation.

If you want a fluff reason for it, the transmuter is not manipulating the elemental forces. They are altering states of matter or alchemically transforming earth to mud or flesh to stone. It's like turning blood into water and viceversa. You could have a whole Subschool within Transmutation that does this (the Alchemy subschool?) and is all about slowly mastering the art of transforming one thing into another. It's not about the elements or the substances, it's about the fundamental cosmic force of Change.

This is definitely a very good thing! I might have been exaggerating the power difference. In fact without it, Transmutation might not even be strong enough.



You could also just move the magical enchantments to Transmutation, and solve your problem. I don't really mind making that sacrifice for Transmutation to remain viable.

Yes but I was actually referring to the morale bonuses from spells that would resemble Inspire Courage.



I agree, though I think a couple of Fate spells could be Universal.

Like what?



Well, an alternate take on this is to imagine health not as the middle of the road between "decrepit" and "superhuman" but as a peak. Being in perfect physical health really IS as far as it goes. You can't do any better than that.

So the negative energy aspect of necromancy is very obvious (pulls you down from "Health" to "Dead"), but the opposite to that is not "Pulls you from "Health" to "Something even better"", but "Pulls you from "Dead" to "Health"". You give all the healing, resurrecting and restorative effects to the positive energy aspect, and then you give the white necros an incentive to use them in combat (because the current philosophy is that spending an action healing in combat when you could be doing something to bring the encounter to an end is a waste of an action).

An idea to do this is to give ALL healing spells a rider effect that makes them very useful in combat but a waste outside it. Buffs COULD be a way to do this ("Free +2 to Con with your Cure Wounds spell, come and get them before they sell out!"), but I think we should branch to something truly esoteric.

Some ideas: Temp HP (that lasts longer but is a smaller amount than the morale version you find in the Enchanment school), Fast Healing, Regeneration, a "pool of ability scores or levels" that auto-counteracts ability/energy drain/damage, a pool of "get out of X condition free" points that counteracts stuff like Exhaustion, Fatigue and the like (example: heal the raging barbarian and when his rage ends, the imaginary pool diminishes somewhat and he's not Fatigued. Later on, he gets hit with a Waves of Exhaustion spell, and the pool spends entirely to save him from the effect), a pool of "positive energy" that negates negative energy damage, a minor enchantment that adds xd6 positive energy damage to the target's attacks, a brilliant aura that deals xd6 positive energy damage to ALL creatures around it (double to undead), and so on. You know, atypical, positive-energy-oriented buffs.

Thoughts?

This is amazing! I love the idea of having a pool of points to mitigate negative conditions. Would it be too time consuming to create different spells for different sets of conditions? Or should it just be one expansive pool? Or even different versions of spells that correlate with level of conditions? Or just one spell that gives points/CL and some condition cost more than others?

I also want to make some Positive Energy offensive spells. I don't want it to be Negative = Offense and Positive = Defensive. But then I would also have to make Negative Defensive spells....


I do, but it's easy to fix. What I suggest (and I will do this at the end of this post to avoid clutter) is to grab ALL of the core wizard buffs and put them together in a single list, so that we can divide them into schools as per your new criteria and see if there is really a problem or you're merely misjudging the scope of the changes.

Yes that will definitely be best.


Well, see, the entire point of an illusionist is not to damage, but to deceive. An illusionist does not defeat an enemy, they trick the enemy into defeating themselves. I'll take a look at the current school at the end of my post and let you know how it looks.

Well that is true. But if you know everything is an illusion, then it gets very hard to be an illusionist. I was thinking in combat, how would they harm an opponent 1 v 1?


Thus far, I am going for a "manipulation of the senses" theme to it, to justify the Light, Darkness and Sound shift from Evocation to it.

That was what I was thinking. Manipulation would add some nice versatility to it.


See the end of my post where I will gather some solid data and let you know.

I am already there. :smallamused:

Thanks so much for making it :smallbiggrin:



I do want to chime in and say "Give abjurers nice things too." Dispel Magic is probably the best weapon in an Abjurer's arsenal. If you take that away, what can an abjurer do, proactively? Cast Magic Missile or Prismatic Spray?

This is what I was thinking - without Dispel Magic, Abjuration really isn't Abjuration.


You do realise that a Diviner is basically unkillable, right? They don't need any advantages because Divination already has things like Foresight, Time Stop, Haste, Contact Other Plane, Scry and so on. Don't underestimate the power of knowledge. Oh, and the power to control time. The sole reason a Diviner remains balanced is because they know exactly how to kill you in your sleep, but they have terrible weapon proficiencies, half BAB and no offensive spells to do so. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this gave Abjuration and Transmutation a serious run for their money as the best class to make a gish with.

I think the issue is that it doesn't have enough versatile offensive abilities. Or any good tactical solutions. I'm trying to improve it so that it can do more than just know what's coming - actually Time related spells really.
------


Also I just realised something: The worst enemies for this redesign are the wands and the scrolls. Seriously, they defeat the entire purpose of the system (unless you argue that if a spell is not on the Evoker's spell list, it doesn't count and therefore it's impossible for them to use without UMD, in which case suddenly everything is fine again).

Yeah probably. Never noticed this, thanks for detecting it :smallbiggrin:

------



Tentative classification of Wiz/Sorc spells:

0-Level

Abjur
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Conj
?
Div
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Ench
Daze: Humanoid creature of 4 HD or less loses next action.
Evoc
Ray of Frost: Ray deals 1d3 cold damage.
Acid Splash: Orb deals 1d3 acid damage.
Illus
Dancing Lights: Creates torches or other lights.
Flare: Dazzles one creature (-1 on attack rolls).
Light: Object shines like a torch.
Ghost Sound: Figment sounds.
Necro
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Touch of Fatigue: Touch attack fatigues target.
Trans
Mending: Makes minor repairs on an object.
Open/Close: Opens or closes small or light things.
Univ
Arcane Mark: Inscribes a personal rune (visible or invisible).
Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.
Mage Hand: 5-pound telekinesis.
Message: Whispered conversation at distance.
Prestidigitation: Performs minor tricks.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.

1st-Level

Abjur
Alarm: Wards an area for 2 hours/level.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Hold Portal: Holds door shut.
Mage Armor: Gives subject +4 armor bonus.
Magic Missile: 1d4+1 damage; +1 missile per two levels above 1st (max 5).
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Shield: Invisible disc gives +4 to AC, blocks magic missiles.
Floating Disk: Creates 3-ft.-diameter horizontal disk that holds 100 lb./level.
Conj
Mount: Summons riding horse for 2 hours/level.
Summon Monster I: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Comprehend Languages: You understand all spoken and written languages.
Detect Secret Doors: Reveals hidden doors within 60 ft.
Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft.
Identify: Determines properties of magic item.
True Strike: +20 on your next attack roll.
Ench
Charm Person: Makes one person your friend.
Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds.
Hypnotism: Fascinates 2d4 HD of creatures.
Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber.
Evoc
Burning Hands: 1d4/level fire damage (max 5d4).
Shocking Grasp: Touch delivers 1d6/level electricity damage (max 5d6).
Illus
Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures.
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance.
Magic Aura: Alters object’s magic aura.
Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design.
Unseen Servant: Invisible force obeys your commands.
Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level.
Necro
Animate Rope: Makes a rope move at your command.
Chill Touch: One touch/level deals 1d6 damage and possibly 1 Str damage.
Ray of Enfeeblement: Ray deals 1d6 +1 per two levels Str damage.
Trans
Enlarge Person: Humanoid creature doubles in size.
Jump: Subject gets bonus on Jump checks.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
Reduce Person: Humanoid creature halves in size.
Univ
Erase: Mundane or magical writing vanishes.
Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly.

2nd-Level

Abjur
Arcane Lock: Magically locks a portal or chest.
Obscure Object: Masks object against scrying.
Protection from Arrows: Subject immune to most ranged attacks.
Resist Energy: Ignores first 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Conj
Summon Monster II: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of bats, rats, or spiders.
Div
Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specific or type).
See Invisibility: Reveals invisible creatures or objects.
Ench
Daze Monster: Living creature of 6 HD or less loses next action.
Detect Thoughts: Allows “listening” to surface thoughts.
Hideous Laughter: Subject loses actions for 1 round/level.
Scare: Panics creatures of less than 6 HD.
Touch of Idiocy: Subject takes 1d6 points of Int, Wis, and Cha damage.
Evoc
Acid Arrow: Ranged touch attack; 2d4 damage for 1 round +1 round/three levels.
Flaming Sphere: Creates rolling ball of fire, 2d6 damage, lasts 1 round/level.
Gust of Wind: Blows away or knocks down smaller creatures.
Levitate: Subject moves up and down at your direction. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Pyrotechnics: Turns fire into blinding light or choking smoke.
Scorching Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 4d6 fire damage, +1 ray/four levels (max 3).
Whispering Wind: Sends a short message 1 mile/level.
Illus
Blur: Attacks miss subject 20% of the time.
Continual Flame: Makes a permanent, heatless torch.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
Hypnotic Pattern: Fascinates (2d4 + level) HD of creatures.
Invisibility: Subject is invisible for 1 min./level or until it attacks.
Magic Mouth: Speaks once when triggered.
Minor Image: As silent image, plus some sound.
Mirror Image: Creates decoy duplicates of you (1d4 +1 per three levels, max 8).
Misdirection: Misleads divinations for one creature or object.
Phantom Trap: Makes item seem trapped.
Shatter: Sonic vibration damages objects or crystalline creatures.
Necro
Blindness/Deafness: Makes subject blinded or deafened.
Command Undead: Undead creature obeys your commands.
False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10). Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Ghoul Touch: Paralyzes one subject, which exudes stench that makes those nearby sickened.
Spectral Hand: Creates disembodied glowing hand to deliver touch attacks.
Trans
Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Cat’s Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
Darkvision: See 60 ft. in total darkness.
Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
Fox’s Cunning: Subject gains +4 Int for 1 min./level.
Owl’s Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Spider Climb: Grants ability to walk on walls and ceilings.
Univ
?

3rd-Level

Abjur
Dispel Magic: Cancels magical spells and effects.
Explosive Runes: Deals 6d6 damage when read.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Nondetection: Hides subject from divination, scrying.
Protection from Energy: Absorb 12 points/level of damage from one kind of energy.
Sepia Snake Sigil: Creates text symbol that immobilizes reader.
Conj
Blink: You randomly vanish and reappear for 1 round/level.
Phantom Steed: Magic horse appears for 1 hour/level.
Summon Monster III: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Arcane Sight: Magical auras become visible to you.
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance: Hear or see at a distance for 1 min./level.
Haste: One creature/level moves faster, +1 on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves.
Slow: One subject/level takes only one action/round, -1 to AC, reflex saves, and attack rolls.
Tongues: Speak any language.
Ench
Deep Slumber: Puts 10 HD of creatures to sleep.
Heroism: Gives +2 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks.
Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Rage: Subjects gains +2 to Str and Con, +1 on Will saves, -2 to AC.
Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.
Evoc
Fireball: 1d6 damage per level, 20-ft. radius.
Flame Arrow: Arrows deal +1d6 fire damage.
Fly: Subject flies at speed of 60 ft. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Lightning Bolt: Electricity deals 1d6/level damage.
Sleet Storm: Hampers vision and movement.
Wind Wall: Deflects arrows, smaller creatures, and gases.
Illus
Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Displacement: Attacks miss subject 50%.
Illusory Script: Only intended reader can decipher.
Invisibility Sphere: Makes everyone within 10 ft. invisible.
Major Image: As silent image, plus sound, smell and thermal effects.
Secret Page: Changes one page to hide its real content.
Necro
Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse.
Halt Undead: Immobilizes undead for 1 round/level.
Ray of Exhaustion: Ray makes subject exhausted.
Vampiric Touch: Touch deals 1d6/two levels damage; caster gains damage as hp.
Trans
Gaseous Form: Subject becomes insubstantial and can fly slowly.
Keen Edge: Doubles normal weapon’s threat range.
Magic Weapon, Greater: +1/four levels (max +5).
Shrink Item: Object shrinks to one-sixteenth size.
Stinking Cloud: Nauseating vapors, 1 round/level.
Water Breathing: Subjects can breathe underwater.
Univ
?

4th-Level

Abjur
Fire Trap: Opened object deals 1d4 damage +1/level.
Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Resilient Sphere: Force globe protects but traps one subject.
Stoneskin: Ignore 10 points of damage per attack.
Conj
Black Tentacles: Tentacles grapple all within 20 ft. spread.
Dimension Door: Teleports you short distance.
Dimensional Anchor: Bars extradimensional movement.
Summon Monster IV: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Arcane Eye: Invisible floating eye moves 30 ft./round.
Detect Scrying: Alerts you of magical eavesdropping.
Locate Creature: Indicates direction to familiar creature.
Scrying: Spies on subject from a distance.
Ench
Charm Monster: Makes monster believe it is your ally.
Confusion: Subjects behave oddly for 1 round/level.
Crushing Despair: Subjects take -2 on attack rolls, damage rolls, saves, and checks.
Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level.
Geas, Lesser: Commands subject of 7 HD or less.
Evoc
Fire Shield: Creatures attacking you take fire damage; you’re protected from heat or cold.
Ice Storm: Hail deals 5d6 damage in cylinder 40 ft. across.
Wall of Fire: Deals 2d4 fire damage out to 10 ft. and 1d4 out to 20 ft. Passing through wall deals 2d6 damage +1/level.
Wall of Ice: Ice plane creates wall with 15 hp +1/level, or hemisphere can trap creatures inside.
Illus
Hallucinatory Terrain: Makes one type of terrain appear like another (field into forest, or the like).
Illusory Wall: Wall, floor, or ceiling looks real, but anything can pass through.
Invisibility, Greater: As invisibility, but subject can attack and stay invisible.
Phantasmal Killer: Fearsome illusion kills subject or deals 3d6 damage.
Rainbow Pattern: Lights fascinate 24 HD of creatures.
Shadow Conjuration: Mimics conjuration below 4th level, but only 20% real.
Shout: Deafens all within cone and deals 5d6 sonic damage.
Necro
Animate Dead: Creates undead skeletons and zombies.
Bestow Curse: -6 to an ability score; -4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action.
Contagion: Infects subject with chosen disease.
Trans
Enlarge Person, Mass: Enlarges several creatures.
Reduce Person, Mass: Reduces several creatures.
Solid Fog: Blocks vision and slows movement.
Stone Shape: Sculpts stone into any shape.
Univ
Mnemonic Enhancer: Wizard only. Prepares extra spells or retains one just cast.

5th-Level

Abjur
Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Dismissal: Forces a creature to return to native plane.
Interposing Hand: Hand provides cover against one opponent.
Mage’s Private Sanctum: Prevents anyone from viewing or scrying an area for 24 hours.
Wall of Force: Wall is immune to damage.
Conj
Mage’s Faithful Hound: Phantom dog can guard, attack.
Secret Chest: Hides expensive chest on Ethereal Plane; you retrieve it at will.
Summon Monster V: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Teleport: Instantly transports you as far as 100 miles/level.
Div
Contact Other Plane: Lets you ask question of extraplanar entity.
Dream: Sends message to anyone sleeping.
Nightmare: Sends vision dealing 1d10 damage, fatigue.
Prying Eyes: 1d4 +1/level floating eyes scout for you.
Ench
Dominate Person: Controls humanoid telepathically.
Feeblemind: Subject’s Int and Cha drop to 1.
Hold Monster: As hold person, but any creature.
Mind Fog: Subjects in fog get -10 to Wis and Will checks.
Symbol of Sleep: Triggered rune puts nearby creatures into catatonic slumber.
Telepathic Bond: Link lets allies communicate.
Evoc
Cone of Cold: 1d6/level cold damage.
Overland Flight: You fly at a speed of 40 ft. and can hustle over long distances. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Illus
False Vision: Fools scrying with an illusion.
Mirage Arcana: As hallucinatory terrain, plus structures.
Persistent Image: As major image, but no concentration required.
Seeming: Changes appearance of one person per two levels.
Shadow Evocation: Mimics evocation below 5th level, but only 20% real.
Necro
Blight: Withers one plant or deals 1d6/level damage to plant creature.
Cloudkill: Kills 3 HD or less; 4-6 HD save or die, 6+ HD take Con damage.
Magic Jar: Enables possession of another creature.
Symbol of Pain: Triggered rune wracks nearby creatures with pain.
Waves of Fatigue: Several targets become fatigued.
Trans
Animal Growth: One animal/two levels doubles in size.
Passwall: Creates passage through wood or stone wall.
Transmute Mud to Rock: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Transmute Rock to Mud: Transforms two 10-ft. cubes per level. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Univ
Permanency X: Makes certain spells permanent.
Sending: Delivers short message anywhere, instantly.
Telekinesis: Moves object, attacks creature, or hurls object or creature.

6th-Level

Abjur
Antimagic Field: Negates magic within 10 ft.
Dispel Magic, Greater: As dispel magic, but +20 on check.
Globe of Invulnerability: As lesser globe of invulnerability, plus 4th-level spell effects.
Guards and Wards: Array of magic effects protect area.
Forceful Hand: Hand pushes creatures away.
Repulsion: Creatures can’t approach you.
Conj
Summon Monster VI: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Analyze Dweomer: Reveals magical aspects of subject.
Legend Lore: Lets you learn tales about a person, place, or thing.
Ench
Geas/Quest: As lesser geas, plus it affects any creature.
Heroism, Greater: Gives +4 bonus on attack rolls, saves, skill checks; immunity to fear; temporary hp.
Suggestion, Mass: As suggestion, plus one subject/level.
Symbol of Persuasion: Triggered rune charms nearby creatures.
Evoc
Acid Fog: Fog deals acid damage.
Chain Lightning: 1d6/level damage; 1 secondary bolt/level each deals half damage.
Control Water: Raises or lowers bodies of water.
Freezing Sphere: Freezes water or deals cold damage.
Move Earth: Digs trenches and build hills.
Wall of Iron M: 30 hp/four levels; can topple onto foes. Gains the [Earth] descriptor.
Illus
Mislead: Turns you invisible and creates illusory double.
Permanent Image: Includes sight, sound, and smell.
Programmed Image: As major image, plus triggered by event.
Shadow Walk: Step into shadow to travel rapidly.
Veil: Changes appearance of group of creatures.
Necro
Circle of Death: Kills 1d4/level HD of creatures.
Create Undead: Creates ghouls, ghasts, mummies, or mohrgs.
Eyebite: Target becomes panicked, sickened, and comatose.
Symbol of Fear: Triggered rune panics nearby creatures.
Undeath to Death: Destroys 1d4/level HD of undead (max 20d4). Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Trans
Bear’s Endurance, Mass: As bear’s endurance, affects one subject/level.
Bull’s Strength, Mass: As bull’s strength, affects one subject/ level.
Cat’s Grace, Mass: As cat’s grace, affects one subject/level.
Eagle’s Splendor, Mass: As eagle’s splendor, affects one subject/level.
Flesh to Stone: Turns subject creature into statue.
Fox’s Cunning, Mass: As fox’s cunning, affects one subject/ level.
Owl’s Wisdom, Mass: As owl’s wisdom, affects one subject/ level.
Stone to Flesh: Restores petrified creature.
Univ
Contingency: Sets trigger condition for another spell.
Disintegrate: Makes one creature or object vanish.
Mage’s Lucubration: Wizard only. Recalls spell of 5th level or lower.
Transformation: You gain combat bonuses.

7th-Level

Abjur
Banishment: Banishes 2 HD/level of extraplanar creatures.
Forcecage: Cube or cage of force imprisons all inside.
Grasping Hand: Hand provides cover, pushes, or grapples.
Mage’s Sword: Floating magic blade strikes opponents.
Prismatic Spray: Rays hit subjects with variety of effects.
Sequester: Subject is invisible to sight and scrying; renders creature comatose.
Spell Turning: Reflect 1d4+6 spell levels back at caster.
Conj
Ethereal Jaunt: You become ethereal for 1 round/level.
Instant Summons: Prepared object appears in your hand.
Phase Door: Creates an invisible passage through wood or stone.
Plane Shift: As many as eight subjects travel to another plane.
Summon Monster VII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Teleport, Greater: As teleport, but no range limit and no off-target arrival.
Teleport Object: As teleport, but affects a touched object.
Div
Arcane Sight, Greater: As arcane sight, but also reveals magic effects on creatures and objects.
Scrying, Greater: As scrying, but faster and longer.
Vision: As legend lore, but quicker and strenuous.
Ench
Hold Person, Mass: As hold person, but all within 30 ft.
Insanity: Subject suffers continuous confusion.
Power Word Blind: Blinds creature with 200 hp or less.
Symbol of Stunning M: Triggered rune stuns nearby creatures.
Evoc
Control Weather: Changes weather in local area.
Delayed Blast Fireball: 1d6/level fire damage; you can postpone blast for 5 rounds.
Illus
Invisibility, Mass: As invisibility, but affects all in range.
Project Image: Illusory double can talk and cast spells.
Shadow Conjuration, Greater: As shadow conjuration, but up to 6th level and 60% real.
Simulacrum: Creates partially real double of a creature.
Necro
Control Undead: Undead don’t attack you while under your command.
Finger of Death: Kills one subject.
Symbol of Weakness: Triggered rune weakens nearby creatures.
Waves of Exhaustion: Several targets become exhausted.
Trans
Reverse Gravity: Objects and creatures fall upward.
Statue: Subject can become a statue at will.
Univ
Limited Wish: Alters reality—within spell limits.

8th-Level

Abjur
Clenched Fist: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or attacks your foes.
Prismatic Wall: Wall’s colors have array of effects.
Protection from Spells: Confers +8 resistance bonus.
Conj
Dimensional Lock: Teleportation and interplanar travel blocked for one day/level.
Maze: Traps subject in extradimensional maze.
Planar Binding, Greater: As lesser planar binding, but up to 18 HD.
Summon Monster VIII: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Div
Discern Location: Reveals exact location of creature or object.
Moment of Prescience: You gain insight bonus on single attack roll, check, or save.
Prying Eyes, Greater: As prying eyes, but eyes have true seeing.
Temporal Stasis: Puts subject into suspended animation.
Ench
Antipathy: Object or location affected by spell repels certain creatures.
Binding: Utilizes an array of techniques to imprison a creature.
Charm Monster, Mass: As charm monster, but all within 30 ft.
Demand: As sending, plus you can send suggestion.
Irresistible Dance: Forces subject to dance.
Power Word Stun: Stuns creature with 150 hp or less.
Symbol of Insanity: Triggered rune renders nearby creatures insane.
Sympathy: Object or location attracts certain creatures.
Evoc
Incendiary Cloud: Cloud deals 4d6 fire damage/round.
Polar Ray: Ranged touch attack deals 1d6/level cold damage.
Illus
Scintillating Pattern: Twisting colors confuse, stun, or render unconscious.
Screen: Illusion hides area from vision, scrying.
Shadow Evocation, Greater: As shadow evocation, but up to 7th level and 60% real.
Shout, Greater: Devastating yell deals 10d6 sonic damage; stuns creatures, damages objects.
Sunburst: Blinds all within 10 ft., deals 6d6 damage.
Necro
Clone: Duplicate awakens when original dies.
Create Greater Undead: Create shadows, wraiths, spectres, or devourers.
Horrid Wilting: Deals 1d6/level damage within 30 ft.
Symbol of Death: Triggered rune slays nearby creatures.
Trap the Soul: Imprisons subject within gem.
Trans
Iron Body: Your body becomes living iron.
Univ
Telekinetic Sphere: As resilient sphere, but you move sphere telekinetically.

9th-Level

Abjur
Crushing Hand: Large hand provides cover, pushes, or crushes your foes.
Freedom: Releases creature from imprisonment.
Imprisonment: Entombs subject beneath the earth.
Mage’s Disjunction: Dispels magic, disenchants magic items.
Prismatic Sphere: As prismatic wall, but surrounds on all sides.
Conj
Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
Refuge: Alters item to transport its possessor to you.
Summon Monster IX: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
Teleportation Circle: Circle teleports any creature inside to designated spot.
Div
Foresight: “Sixth sense” warns of impending danger.
Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds.
Ench
Dominate Monster: As dominate person, but any creature.
Hold Monster, Mass: As hold monster, but all within 30 ft.
Evoc
Meteor Swarm: Four exploding spheres each deal 6d6 fire damage.
Illus
Shades: As shadow conjuration, but up to 8th level and 80% real.
Weird: As phantasmal killer, but affects all within 30 ft.
Necro
Astral Projection: Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
Soul Bind: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
Power Word Kill: Kills one creature with 100 hp or less.
Wail of the Banshee: Kills one creature/level.
Trans
?
Univ
Wish: As limited wish, but with fewer limits.

Removed Spells:

Grease: Makes 10-ft. square or one object slippery.
Alter Self: Assume form of a similar creature.
Glitterdust: Blinds creatures, outlines invisible creatures.
Knock: Opens locked or magically sealed door.
Rope Trick: As many as eight creatures hide in extradimensional space.
Web: Fills 20-ft.-radius spread with sticky spiderwebs.
Tiny Hut: Creates shelter for ten creatures.
Minor Creation: Creates one cloth or wood object.
Secure Shelter: Creates sturdy cottage.
Polymorph: Gives one willing subject a new form.
Enervation: Subject gains 1d4 negative levels.
Major Creation: As minor creation, plus stone and metal.
Planar Binding, Lesser: Traps extraplanar creature of 6 HD or less until it performs a task.
Baleful Polymorph: Transforms subject into harmless animal.
Fabricate: Transforms raw materials into finished items.
Planar Binding: As lesser planar binding, but up to 12 HD.
True Seeing: Lets you see all things as they really are.
Mage’s Magnificent Mansion: Door leads to extradimensional mansion.
Mind Blank: Subject is immune to mental/emotional magic and scrying.
Polymorph Any Object: Changes any subject into anything else.
Gate: Connects two planes for travel or summoning.
Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
Shapechange: Transforms you into any creature, and change forms once per round.


Analysis:

Abjuration is fine. The Prismatic and Force lines keep it appealing at all levels and the protections are in fact quite good to have around. Splats make this school slightly better, but not by much.
Conjuration is very weak earlier on, but regains its footing in later levels. I believe adding splats will fix this problem, so I will endeavour to check out the Complete Series and Spell Compendium in a future post to prove this theory.
Divination is somewhat weak until level 9, where it gains one of the most powerful spells ever, but I also believe splats take care of this.
Enchantment is a rollercoaster. Some levels it gets next to nothing, some levels it gets a truckload. I stand by my suggestion to up the levels of Charm and Dominate and homebrew emotion spells.
Evocation became another rollercoaster, with some levels being very, very thin. However, I am sure that splat inclusion will actually make it swell quite a bit (especially when it comes to the Orb line).
Illusion swelled significantly, and is likely the school with the most spells presently. It is not weak or thinned out in the slightest. Splat addition will only compound this issue.
Necromancy remained mostly the same, though I seriously need to include the cleric version to get a proper look at it. It remains a somewhat niche school.
Transmutation got gutted severely (having no 9th levels spells, even) and I am frankly not entirely sure if splat addition does anything to remedy this. Adding the polymorph line again would make it relevant at the risk of making it overpowered, though.
Universal got all the crucial spells. My personal guidelines for adding spells here was along the line of all-purpose, non-specific utility, such as distant communication, telekinesis and archetypal spells.

Core only, the schools are NOT balanced at all. Abjuration and Illusion are at the top, with Divination and Necromancy remaining niche but solid, Evocation and Enchantment being very inconstant and Transmutation and Conjuration being frankly disappointing.

Splat addition, to my belief, would in fact balance all the schools, and I shall test this theory in my upcoming post.

I looked it over only briefly for the Universal spells and how Illusion is doing. For Illusion, it might not even be necessary to include splat books if it is not necessary. After all I'm looking to balance all of them and not make it a comprehensive list of all spells ever printed.

It looks like Universal is pretty empty and that's good. I don't want Universal have almost any impact on the spell schools or spellcasters at all. I actually would want to get rid of Telekinesis because I always felt that it should be a Psionic thing, not really a magic thing.

Is there a reason you removed the spells that deal negative levels? Are they too broken in your opinion? Or another reason? Also I second the Cleric suggestion - Clerics have always been regarded as the best Necromancers and they always deal with Positive Energy as well. That should provide some amazing new options.

For Transmutation, perhaps we can refluff some of the Conjuration Creations spells and move them there? That should add some BFC spells and versatility to help it right? Conjuration Creation gets a lot of splat support IIRC.

In order to counteract Illusion, I was thinking of homebrewing lesser versions of True Seeing that counteract specific level of Illusions like we mentioned.

@Gotterdammerung: I like your idea. I was thinking of something similar because right now Immunities are just really damning.

EDIT: Shadowknight....just...oh dear thank you for your work. This just made leaps and bounds with your hard work :smallbiggrin:

MVP!

EDIT2: Let's move Prismatic spells to.....Illusion? If we do that, we would have to start cutting some of Illusion's spells....

But outside of Prismatic there isn't another school that really fits with Prismatic's flashy lights.

What can we cut from Illusion?

I was thinking either Shadow or Sound. Light/Darkness already fit with the manipulate senses aspect and prismatic would be a nice offensive tool. I think either of those could be cut, but then where would they go?

[Shadowknight12]

I'll reply to this first and then post the SpC stuff on another post. There are A LOT of spells there. Thankfully, some of them are stuff I've done for CM and CAr so I will skip those.


This is definitely a very good thing! I might have been exaggerating the power difference. In fact without it, Transmutation might not even be strong enough.

Yeah, perhaps. Still, thematically they belong in Evocation. If you're going to use theme as your foundation for splitting the spells, you really don't want to be inconsistent on that.

I will say, however, that Evocation should NOT get summons. At all. Let them stay with Conjuration. Evocation already has direct damage, lots and lots of BFC and even a handful of self-buffs.


Yes but I was actually referring to the morale bonuses from spells that would resemble Inspire Courage.

Yeah, but that still keeps Transmutation and Enchantment separate. There is not a lot of overlap, from what I've seen thus far.


Like what?

There are a few destiny/fate spells in Races of Destiny (and SpC, I think) that might be worth keeping in Universal. I am not sure and I may retract that statement. :smalltongue:


This is amazing! I love the idea of having a pool of points to mitigate negative conditions. Would it be too time consuming to create different spells for different sets of conditions? Or should it just be one expansive pool? Or even different versions of spells that correlate with level of conditions? Or just one spell that gives points/CL and some condition cost more than others?

I also want to make some Positive Energy offensive spells. I don't want it to be Negative = Offense and Positive = Defensive. But then I would also have to make Negative Defensive spells....

Thank you! A better idea could be to take pre-existent healing spells (like Heal, Cure Wounds, the Vigour line and so on) and add rider effects to them. I will compile all the healing spells in core and Complete Divine here and let you know how many there are, so that we can decide what's the better idea:

Core:

Cure Critical Wounds
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Cure Light Wounds
Cure Light Wounds, Mass
Cure Minor Wounds
Cure Moderate Wounds
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
Cure Serious Wounds
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass
Delay Poison
Heal
Heal Mount
Heal, Mass
Neutralize Poison
Raise Dead
Regenerate
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Disease
Remove Paralysis
Restoration
Restoration, Greater
Restoration, Lesser
Resurrection
True Resurrection

Complete Divine:

Rejuvenation Cocoon
Renewal Pact
Revenance
Vigor
Vigor, Greater
Vigor, Lesser
Vigor, Mass Lesser
Vigorous Circle

We can easily add tons of rider effects to those spells, there is a big enough list (even if we dismiss the resurrection spells) to have plenty of variety. The Restoration line, for example, can provide a floating pool of points that get deducted when the victim takes ability/level drain/damage. Then you can get specific on the spells that heal specific conditions, like Remove Paralysis, Remove Disease and the like.

The only problem is, of course, that we need to give these spells to wizards. Which I don't have a problem with, but I know it's a bit of a sacred cow to some people.


Well that is true. But if you know everything is an illusion, then it gets very hard to be an illusionist. I was thinking in combat, how would they harm an opponent 1 v 1?

*shrug* I think they have enough firepower as they are right now. And even then, an illusionist rarely does 1 v 1 combat.


That was what I was thinking. Manipulation would add some nice versatility to it.

Indeed!


Thanks so much for making it :smallbiggrin:

No problem! Hey, if this catches on, it might become the official magic fix. :smallcool:


This is what I was thinking - without Dispel Magic, Abjuration really isn't Abjuration.

Exactly.


I think the issue is that it doesn't have enough versatile offensive abilities. Or any good tactical solutions. I'm trying to improve it so that it can do more than just know what's coming - actually Time related spells really.

True, Divination is like Abjuration in that it seriously needs offensive spells (though Abjuration got more than it deserved with both Force AND Prismatic) or else it just sits around doing a bit fat pile of nothing.

------


Yeah probably. Never noticed this, thanks for detecting it :smallbiggrin:

Hah, well, I think you should make a note to include this in the OP when you finally post it in the Homebrew forum.

------


I looked it over only briefly for the Universal spells and how Illusion is doing. For Illusion, it might not even be necessary to include splat books if it is not necessary. After all I'm looking to balance all of them and not make it a comprehensive list of all spells ever printed.

It's not overly imbalanced yet, just lots and lots of choice. I will see if Spell Compendium brings the other schools in line with this or not. I fear a serious bloat for Evocation, however.


It looks like Universal is pretty empty and that's good. I don't want Universal have almost any impact on the spell schools or spellcasters at all. I actually would want to get rid of Telekinesis because I always felt that it should be a Psionic thing, not really a magic thing.

In LotR, the duel between Saruman and Gandalf can be summed up as lots of telekinesis hurled around. Just sayin'. But eh, entirely up to you.


Is there a reason you removed the spells that deal negative levels? Are they too broken in your opinion? Or another reason? Also I second the Cleric suggestion - Clerics have always been regarded as the best Necromancers and they always deal with Positive Energy as well. That should provide some amazing new options.

Yes, they are hilariously broken and I explained why in the other thread. I think my idea of fixing undead spawn is the best solution for black necromancy. Make them about raising the dead, controlling them and inflicting horrible curses and diseases on others. Then let the undead deal the ability/level drain/damage, not the necromancer. A necromancer casting Enervation from as far as possible isn't at risk of losing anything but a spell slot. A necromancer having to protect its wight while it tries to reach the enemy to level-drain it runs the risk of losing the resources they invested on the wight and might even put himself at risk to protect his investment.

I will think up a proper write up and post it after I'm done revising SpC.


For Transmutation, perhaps we can refluff some of the Conjuration Creations spells and move them there? That should add some BFC spells and versatility to help it right? Conjuration Creation gets a lot of splat support IIRC.

The problem is that Conjuration(Creation) is broken. It's very broken. It gets SR: No, penetrates AMF, can't be Dispelled, etc. A lot of Conjuration(Creation) should honestly just disappear or remain purely as an Incantation (like Polymorph and Calling). Some things in 3.5e are broken by design, and if you want to fix them, you might as well devote the same energy to homebrew appropriate replacements.

Having said that, I think a good way to beef up Transmutation is to start homebrewing a lot of spells that let them emulate a very discrete, very specific monster quality for a very limited time (like a Medusa's petrifying gaze, a flying creature's wings, X creature's burrow speed, Y creature's natural armour, Z creature's special DR, and so on).

If you like the idea, I can think up of at least a couple dozen spells to fill up the school throughout the mid to high levels.


In order to counteract Illusion, I was thinking of homebrewing lesser versions of True Seeing that counteract specific level of Illusions like we mentioned.

That's a great idea. We should also come up with a nice scale to counteract Enchantment as well in a way that isn't outright immunity.


EDIT: Shadowknight....just...oh dear thank you for your work. This just made leaps and bounds with your hard work :smallbiggrin:

MVP!

No problem! Like I said, I have faith in this fix. It sounds like a lot of people around here like it, so it has a chance to be fairly popular. We just have to make sure we do a proper job at balancing all the schools.


EDIT2: Let's move Prismatic spells to.....Illusion? If we do that, we would have to start cutting some of Illusion's spells....

The problem with Illusion is that it's already too bloated. Same thing with Evocation.


But outside of Prismatic there isn't another school that really fits with Prismatic's flashy lights.

What can we cut from Illusion?

I was thinking either Shadow or Sound. Light/Darkness already fit with the manipulate senses aspect and prismatic would be a nice offensive tool. I think either of those could be cut, but then where would they go?

Keep Illusion as it is. Let's not tamper with something that is already very close to being well balanced.

Instead, this might sound strange, but I suggest moving them to Universal. Prismatic spells have diverse effects (energy damage, insanity, poison/death, plane shift, petrification), so they really touch upon ALL the schools, one way or another (except for Divination and Abjuration), so it makes sense to make them available to all mages. IotSV can be refluffed to be the natural progression of Master Specialist (Specialist 3/Master Specialist 10/IotSV 7) as they start to master all forms of magic simultaneously. The fact that it's Abjuration-flavoured can be justified as having been created originally by Abjurers (which are naturally more inclined to study all of the other schools and magic itself).

EDIT: This also has the metagame benefit of giving ALL mages at least ONE way to cast offensive spells and at least ONE way of defending themselves, since prismatic spells are very bipolar in that they're either attacks or protections.

[JKTrickster]

I'll reply to this first and then post the SpC stuff on another post. There are A LOT of spells there. Thankfully, some of them are stuff I've done for CM and CAr so I will skip those.

Actually be careful. The repeats might not be the same and in that case I think SpC is the one we should defer to right?


Yeah, perhaps. Still, thematically they belong in Evocation. If you're going to use theme as your foundation for splitting the spells, you really don't want to be inconsistent on that.

I will say, however, that Evocation should NOT get summons. At all. Let them stay with Conjuration. Evocation already has direct damage, lots and lots of BFC and even a handful of self-buffs.

What I was thinking. Consistency is the most important thing. Actually now that I think about it, why does [Acid] and [Earth] get grouped together all the time? They don't have to be.....

And yes no more of that. I've been looking over the spell lists and the Evokers don't need it.


Yeah, but that still keeps Transmutation and Enchantment separate. There is not a lot of overlap, from what I've seen thus far.

That's good.


There are a few destiny/fate spells in Races of Destiny (and SpC, I think) that might be worth keeping in Universal. I am not sure and I may retract that statement. :smalltongue:

Hmm might be better to keep them in Divination because I want to boost that school a bit.


Thank you! A better idea could be to take pre-existent healing spells (like Heal, Cure Wounds, the Vigour line and so on) and add rider effects to them. I will compile all the healing spells in core and Complete Divine here and let you know how many there are, so that we can decide what's the better idea:

Okay but that would definitely be a class feature then. It sounds like one anyway.


Core:

Cure Critical Wounds
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Cure Light Wounds
Cure Light Wounds, Mass
Cure Minor Wounds
Cure Moderate Wounds
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
Cure Serious Wounds
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass
Delay Poison
Heal
Heal Mount
Heal, Mass
Neutralize Poison
Raise Dead
Regenerate
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Disease
Remove Paralysis
Restoration
Restoration, Greater
Restoration, Lesser
Resurrection
True Resurrection

Complete Divine:

Rejuvenation Cocoon
Renewal Pact
Revenance
Vigor
Vigor, Greater
Vigor, Lesser
Vigor, Mass Lesser
Vigorous Circle

We can easily add tons of rider effects to those spells, there is a big enough list (even if we dismiss the resurrection spells) to have plenty of variety. The Restoration line, for example, can provide a floating pool of points that get deducted when the victim takes ability/level drain/damage. Then you can get specific on the spells that heal specific conditions, like Remove Paralysis, Remove Disease and the like.

Ahh I see. Actually we probably shouldn't add to Vigor because those are more downtime healing spells meant for out of combat. The in combat healing spells would have rider effects from the class.


The only problem is, of course, that we need to give these spells to wizards. Which I don't have a problem with, but I know it's a bit of a sacred cow to some people.

Well we already gave them healing so it's not like we're giving them anything more than that.

Are there any good Positive Energy offensive spells? I can't seem to find any. :smallconfused:


*shrug* I think they have enough firepower as they are right now. And even then, an illusionist rarely does 1 v 1 combat.

I don't think it would be unbalancing if they had access to more direct spells. I'm looking over and wondering how to best balance Illusion while giving it slightly more offensive actions...



No problem! Hey, if this catches on, it might become the official magic fix. :smallcool:

What I'm hoping for too. :smallcool:



True, Divination is like Abjuration in that it seriously needs offensive spells (though Abjuration got more than it deserved with both Force AND Prismatic) or else it just sits around doing a bit fat pile of nothing.

Yeah I definitely want to keep the "Batman" flavor of being always prepared but I doubt people will want to play the Diviner if they don't have any fun spells to play with. I was actually thinking THIS would need to most homebrewing to fix.



Hah, well, I think you should make a note to include this in the OP when you finally post it in the Homebrew forum.

Well it would be an obvious aspect since each class only gets access to one school of magic and the other schools wouldn't naturally be on their spell list.



It's not overly imbalanced yet, just lots and lots of choice. I will see if Spell Compendium brings the other schools in line with this or not. I fear a serious bloat for Evocation, however.

If it gets too much....hmm just had a thought. See below.



In LotR, the duel between Saruman and Gandalf can be summed up as lots of telekinesis hurled around. Just sayin'. But eh, entirely up to you.

Ahh that's true. But I always thought of magic being more....flashy? Which is why Telekinesis always seemed...off.


Yes, they are hilariously broken and I explained why in the other thread. I think my idea of fixing undead spawn is the best solution for black necromancy. Make them about raising the dead, controlling them and inflicting horrible curses and diseases on others. Then let the undead deal the ability/level drain/damage, not the necromancer. A necromancer casting Enervation from as far as possible isn't at risk of losing anything but a spell slot. A necromancer having to protect its wight while it tries to reach the enemy to level-drain it runs the risk of losing the resources they invested on the wight and might even put himself at risk to protect his investment.

While this is true, I think Negative Energy still deserves it's level of offense. They might not deal ability damage, but they can definitely deal some kind of damage and hurt and disable foes from afar.

I'm sure there are many other debuffs out there besides negative energy.



The problem is that Conjuration(Creation) is broken. It's very broken. It gets SR: No, penetrates AMF, can't be Dispelled, etc. A lot of Conjuration(Creation) should honestly just disappear or remain purely as an Incantation (like Polymorph and Calling). Some things in 3.5e are broken by design, and if you want to fix them, you might as well devote the same energy to homebrew appropriate replacements.

Wasn't that more a product of the [Creation] tag than the actual spell? If the spell effect is cool, does some nice BFC, and can be refluffed as Alchemy, it would be a nice addition to Transmutation. We don't have to keep the [Creation] tag benefits.


Having said that, I think a good way to beef up Transmutation is to start homebrewing a lot of spells that let them emulate a very discrete, very specific monster quality for a very limited time (like a Medusa's petrifying gaze, a flying creature's wings, X creature's burrow speed, Y creature's natural armour, Z creature's special DR, and so on).

This would probably fall under some kind of general [Body Adjustment] spells. Might even be an interesting way to bring back Polymorph in a limited sense.


If you like the idea, I can think up of at least a couple dozen spells to fill up the school throughout the mid to high levels.

Probably best to do it after we're done with calibrating existing spells. I want to identify holes and work with existing material before we make new spells. But yeah I can't wait to start the homebrewing as well :smallcool:


That's a great idea. We should also come up with a nice scale to counteract Enchantment as well in a way that isn't outright immunity.

Definitely. Hopefully everything can have a defense/deterrence against it that doesn't disable it outright, but doesn't allow for 100% effectiveness either.


No problem! Like I said, I have faith in this fix. It sounds like a lot of people around here like it, so it has a chance to be fairly popular. We just have to make sure we do a proper job at balancing all the schools.


When we're done here we can move it over to the homebrew board.


The problem with Illusion is that it's already too bloated. Same thing with Evocation.

Keep Illusion as it is. Let's not tamper with something that is already very close to being well balanced.

Instead, this might sound strange, but I suggest moving them to Universal. Prismatic spells have diverse effects (energy damage, insanity, poison/death, plane shift, petrification), so they really touch upon ALL the schools, one way or another (except for Divination and Abjuration), so it makes sense to make them available to all mages. IotSV can be refluffed to be the natural progression of Master Specialist (Specialist 3/Master Specialist 10/IotSV 7) as they start to master all forms of magic simultaneously. The fact that it's Abjuration-flavoured can be justified as having been created originally by Abjurers (which are naturally more inclined to study all of the other schools and magic itself).

Actually....what if we aimed for Abjuration to be the balance point? The reason is that Evocation is likely to become much bigger after SpC anyway. It will be a nightmare adjudicating between the different Evocation spells that we want/don't want.

Instead let's use Abjuration and Evocation to set the bar (which is pretty thematic given that traditionally one is Defense and the other is Offense). I don't think this bar is set too high either. Each school is broad enough so that there are different versions of Abjurers (Force vs. Prismatic vs. Anti-Magic) and Evokers (Fire vs. Water vs. Wind vs. Earth) etc.

Of course I won't be placing hard limits on each specialist caster. But instead of just one class features, they get to choose from a list of "upgrades" or "modifications" that provide many of the ideas that we suggested for class features.

This would incentivize casting certain spells over others. This way, a particular Evoker might choose "upgrades" that particularly benefit their [Fire] spells, but still casts a [Earth] BFC every so often because it's useful.



EDIT: This also has the metagame benefit of giving ALL mages at least ONE way to cast offensive spells and at least ONE way of defending themselves, since prismatic spells are very bipolar in that they're either attacks or protections.

That is true........but it might create too much of a dependence for certain schools if they didn't have preexisting offensive/defensive options.

[Shadowknight12]

SpC coming up sometime in the future.


Actually be careful. The repeats might not be the same and in that case I think SpC is the one we should defer to right?

To be honest, I don't know. There are SO MANY spells, my head is swimming by now and I'm only barely at level 5.


What I was thinking. Consistency is the most important thing. Actually now that I think about it, why does [Acid] and [Earth] get grouped together all the time? They don't have to be.....

And yes no more of that. I've been looking over the spell lists and the Evokers don't need it.

They are paired together because Fire goes with Fire, Cold goes with Water and Electricity goes with Air. It has a vague fluff justification if you squint because you have basically two kinds of acids: organic and inorganic. Almost all inorganic acids come from minerals anyway and you can interpret Earth in the druidic sense to also encompass organic life forms, in which case it would also cover organic acids.


Hmm might be better to keep them in Divination because I want to boost that school a bit.

Fair enough.


Okay but that would definitely be a class feature then. It sounds like one anyway.

No, you're missing the point. The idea is to make in-combat healing relevant, otherwise White necros are mostly useless. The best way to make in-combat healing relevant is to add a very short-lasting rider effect on a healing spell. If it's a class feature, it's optional, so we're back to square one again (which is that in-combat healing is less than optimal).


Ahh I see. Actually we probably shouldn't add to Vigor because those are more downtime healing spells meant for out of combat. The in combat healing spells would have rider effects from the class.

/facepalm. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. "Downtime healing out of combat" should be discouraged because it reduces the importance and relevance of healer as a proper player choice. The entire point of a healer is that they are as valuable in combat as any other class (and NOT because they can do the same damage as an Evoker but positive-energy-flavoured).


Well we already gave them healing so it's not like we're giving them anything more than that.

Are there any good Positive Energy offensive spells? I can't seem to find any. :smallconfused:

There are a few, but they're almost all divine. Disrupt Undead is the prime example of positive energy used offensively at the hands of a wizard. SpC has another one at higher level (Life Bolt, I believe).


I don't think it would be unbalancing if they had access to more direct spells. I'm looking over and wondering how to best balance Illusion while giving it slightly more offensive actions...

I think you're greatly underestimating the value of Sound and Light/Darkness spells. They are really, really, really, really good. Almost nothing has Sonic Resistance and a lot of Light/Darkness spells deal untyped damage, so Illusion will not be scarce when it comes to offensive spells. It just won't have much in the way of variety (but then again, only Conjuration, Transmutation and Evocation have true variety when it comes to offensive spells).


Yeah I definitely want to keep the "Batman" flavor of being always prepared but I doubt people will want to play the Diviner if they don't have any fun spells to play with. I was actually thinking THIS would need to most homebrewing to fix.

Perhaps. We'll see when we're done with the splats. SpC has A LOT of Divination spells.


Well it would be an obvious aspect since each class only gets access to one school of magic and the other schools wouldn't naturally be on their spell list.

Ah, true.


Ahh that's true. But I always thought of magic being more....flashy? Which is why Telekinesis always seemed...off.

*shrug* Like I said, up to you. I don't mind it. If you don't like it, erase the spells.


While this is true, I think Negative Energy still deserves it's level of offense. They might not deal ability damage, but they can definitely deal some kind of damage and hurt and disable foes from afar.

Are you aware that there are A LOT of necromancy spells that deal raw negative energy damage? Because I assure you, there are.


I'm sure there are many other debuffs out there besides negative energy.

Outside Necromancy? Not really, no. Necromancy gets the curses, poisons and diseases. True debuffs come in the way of Divination, with Slow and luck-based spells, Transmutation with Flesh to Stone and BFC and Enchantment with mind-affecting effects. The only one of these three that comes even close to Necromancy in terms of debuffs is Enchantment, with Transmutation a bit further behind.


Wasn't that more a product of the [Creation] tag than the actual spell? If the spell effect is cool, does some nice BFC, and can be refluffed as Alchemy, it would be a nice addition to Transmutation. We don't have to keep the [Creation] tag benefits.

It's a chicken and egg thing. Are they all that because they were put in creation or were they put in creation because they were all that? It doesn't matter. They are frankly terrible spells. Even if you add SR: Yes, saves and make them dispellable, a lot of them (Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Major Creation and so on) are frankly gamebreakers on their own.


This would probably fall under some kind of general [Body Adjustment] spells. Might even be an interesting way to bring back Polymorph in a limited sense.

That's the idea.


Probably best to do it after we're done with calibrating existing spells. I want to identify holes and work with existing material before we make new spells. But yeah I can't wait to start the homebrewing as well :smallcool:

Good point.


Definitely. Hopefully everything can have a defense/deterrence against it that doesn't disable it outright, but doesn't allow for 100% effectiveness either.

Precisely.


When we're done here we can move it over to the homebrew board.

All right.


Actually....what if we aimed for Abjuration to be the balance point? The reason is that Evocation is likely to become much bigger after SpC anyway. It will be a nightmare adjudicating between the different Evocation spells that we want/don't want.

Instead let's use Abjuration and Evocation to set the bar (which is pretty thematic given that traditionally one is Defense and the other is Offense). I don't think this bar is set too high either. Each school is broad enough so that there are different versions of Abjurers (Force vs. Prismatic vs. Anti-Magic) and Evokers (Fire vs. Water vs. Wind vs. Earth) etc.

Of course I won't be placing hard limits on each specialist caster. But instead of just one class features, they get to choose from a list of "upgrades" or "modifications" that provide many of the ideas that we suggested for class features.

This would incentivize casting certain spells over others. This way, a particular Evoker might choose "upgrades" that particularly benefit their [Fire] spells, but still casts a [Earth] BFC every so often because it's useful.

All right. I recommend adding Illusion to the other two because all three schools are similar in size, balance and variety, so they are fairly balanced between each other. The closest ones to that triad are Enchantment and Necromancy, so we should work on those first and leave the other three for last.


That is true........but it might create too much of a dependence for certain schools if they didn't have preexisting offensive/defensive options.

I fail to understand you. The entire point of moving the prismatic line to Universal is to avoid creating a dependency on certain schools for not having offensive/defensive options. We can relax and cut some spells from some schools without fearing mages running out of offence or defence because the prismatic line is in universal and they can always default to that if their particular school (like Divination) doesn't have something like that.

[JKTrickster]

SpC coming up sometime in the future.



To be honest, I don't know. There are SO MANY spells, my head is swimming by now and I'm only barely at level 5.

You've done so much already! Let me take care of Level 6 and above!


They are paired together because Fire goes with Fire, Cold goes with Water and Electricity goes with Air. It has a vague fluff justification if you squint because you have basically two kinds of acids: organic and inorganic. Almost all inorganic acids come from minerals anyway and you can interpret Earth in the druidic sense to also encompass organic life forms, in which case it would also cover organic acids.

Ehh I guess? Might as well since [Acid] exists and there is nothing I can do about it.



No, you're missing the point. The idea is to make in-combat healing relevant, otherwise White necros are mostly useless. The best way to make in-combat healing relevant is to add a very short-lasting rider effect on a healing spell. If it's a class feature, it's optional, so we're back to square one again (which is that in-combat healing is less than optimal).

I'm....confused. A class feature adds the rider effect to the healing spells as long as they are cast in combat would incentivize in combat healing wouldn't it?

This also allows us to use broad changes instead of adjusting for every spell. It will be similar to how we add rider effects to the damaging spells by sacrificing a non-instantaneous spell for it.


/facepalm. That's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. "Downtime healing out of combat" should be discouraged because it reduces the importance and relevance of healer as a proper player choice. The entire point of a healer is that they are as valuable in combat as any other class (and NOT because they can do the same damage as an Evoker but positive-energy-flavoured).

Uhh...yeah. That's why downtime healing won't get the rider effects. Therefore those spells that are used for downtime healing won't get them either. Or did I phrase it wrong? :smallconfused:


There are a few, but they're almost all divine. Disrupt Undead is the prime example of positive energy used offensively at the hands of a wizard. SpC has another one at higher level (Life Bolt, I believe).

Would it be bad to move them over? We're stepping all over Divine already....


I think you're greatly underestimating the value of Sound and Light/Darkness spells. They are really, really, really, really good. Almost nothing has Sonic Resistance and a lot of Light/Darkness spells deal untyped damage, so Illusion will not be scarce when it comes to offensive spells. It just won't have much in the way of variety (but then again, only Conjuration, Transmutation and Evocation have true variety when it comes to offensive spells).


True I should stop applying that same logic here. I keep on thinking without the Illusion mentality. These should be enough...



Perhaps. We'll see when we're done with the splats. SpC has A LOT of Divination spells.

True but I wouldn't mind knocking some of those out in order to add Time spells. Remember that Divination has a lot of repetition in its spells. Most of them are just different and oddball ways to "look over there" and "look at this" and "look at that". We can even consolidate those spells - one area that probably wouldn't be too broken if we did it carefully.



*shrug* Like I said, up to you. I don't mind it. If you don't like it, erase the spells.

Thank you for indulging my weird sense of fluff.


Are you aware that there are A LOT of necromancy spells that deal raw negative energy damage? Because I assure you, there are.

I can't find spells with [Negative] descriptor...wait I dont' think that exists...

I should stop using databases for quick searches...


Outside Necromancy? Not really, no. Necromancy gets the curses, poisons and diseases. True debuffs come in the way of Divination, with Slow and luck-based spells, Transmutation with Flesh to Stone and BFC and Enchantment with mind-affecting effects. The only one of these three that comes even close to Necromancy in terms of debuffs is Enchantment, with Transmutation a bit further behind.

That certainly makes sense. I would like Necromancy to have something more unique about it than "Undead".


It's a chicken and egg thing. Are they all that because they were put in creation or were they put in creation because they were all that? It doesn't matter. They are frankly terrible spells. Even if you add SR: Yes, saves and make them dispellable, a lot of them (Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Major Creation and so on) are frankly gamebreakers on their own.


Honestly maybe we can add something to [Alchemy] to help even these spells out. Perhaps Alchemy is an unstable branch of magic, and it requires concentration. Otherwise the spells expire by the end of the round instead of the full duration?

Or even require that pre-existing material must be present, since it cannot create things out of nothing. And of course we can nerf some of these spells. I only want to do this enough so that Transmutation gets its necessary tools to be viable.



All right. I recommend adding Illusion to the other two because all three schools are similar in size, balance and variety, so they are fairly balanced between each other. The closest ones to that triad are Enchantment and Necromancy, so we should work on those first and leave the other three for last.

Yep that sounds like a plan!



I fail to understand you. The entire point of moving the prismatic line to Universal is to avoid creating a dependency on certain schools for not having offensive/defensive options. We can relax and cut some spells from some schools without fearing mages running out of offence or defence because the prismatic line is in universal and they can always default to that if their particular school (like Divination) doesn't have something like that.

No because those spellcasters would depend on Prismatic to be their only source of damage or defense. Then in that aspect each of the casters would be extremely similar and less specialized. I am trying to avoid Prismatic + school outlook.

[erikun]

How should I fix that low level problem? After all it should be fun to play from Level 1 to Level 20, and I can't think of a good enough solution.
The easiest way would be to extend the duration for Summon Monster I (and possibly Summon Monster II) to 1 minute/level rather than one round/level. It would give the spells more usefulness without making higher-level spells weaker.

And really, if you're taking over the battlefield with celestial eagles at 20th level, something is wrong.


The problem is that I'm afraid that it might get too strong. With the inclusion of [Earth] spells, it gets a nice series of BFC spells and it becomes very versatile. Not sure if the other classes will be able to match it.
Evocation goes from having blast to having blast, walls, and the occasional save-or-die. It might get close to the T2 range with that, but there is no way a character with such a spell list (even knowing all of it) would compete with a Sorcerer or Psion.


Isn't Holy Word/etc Divine spells though? :smallconfused:
True, non-Wiz/Sorc spells probably don't matter what school they are in. On the other hand, Wail of the Banshee is [Sonic] but should definitely still be Necromancy, and it is questionable where the various Power Word spells should end up.


Wouldn't Transmutation be stuck with only buffs then? That seems awfully weak...

Oh that is interesting....never thought about that....

Should I combine schools though? I like the idea of 8 different schools, but that might just be sentimentalism.
Polymorph is versatile enough to be its own seperate school. In that sense, you could consider the Polymorph spells to be the existing "Transmutation" school, and all the buffs get tossed into Enchantment as 'enhancing allies'.

It was just a random idea I had upon seeing your suggested changes, so I'm not sure how much of a problem it might cause.


What I was thinking as well. Force effects really gives Abjuration some versatility and its standard "Anti-Magic" school makes it fun against spellcasters.

Yes I do...is this a major problem?

I do want to chime in and say "Give abjurers nice things too." Dispel Magic is probably the best weapon in an Abjurer's arsenal. If you take that away, what can an abjurer do, proactively? Cast Magic Missile or Prismatic Spray?
They already have Wall of Force, Forcecage, one of the best targets for metamagic blasting (Orb of Force), and yes, a number of prismatic spells. I would not consider the fact that they don't have much offensive to be a problem; some schools are going to be better at some things than others.

On the other hand, a wizard without Dispel Magic may be an issue. D&D 3e does kind of assume a few spells available at a certain level, and Dispel Magic/Break Enchantment is one of them. Without it, a lot of save-or-dies become literal dies, because there isn't any way to get them back. Flesh to Stone? Insanity? Dominate Person? The would require dragging the affected character back to a NPC Abjurer to cure them, and in some cases, that wouldn't be feasable or even possible.

Making Dispel Magic universal wouldn't take it away from the Abjurer; it would give it to everyone.


You do realise that a Diviner is basically unkillable, right? They don't need any advantages because Divination already has things like Foresight, Time Stop, Haste, Contact Other Plane, Scry and so on. Don't underestimate the power of knowledge. Oh, and the power to control time. The sole reason a Diviner remains balanced is because they know exactly how to kill you in your sleep, but they have terrible weapon proficiencies, half BAB and no offensive spells to do so. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this gave Abjuration and Transmutation a serious run for their money as the best class to make a gish with.
What is your Diviner going to be doing before 17th level, when Foresight and Time Stop come online?

As for the rest, I have not seen divination as that powerful of an effect in any situation outside of heavily railroading campaigns. Even if we are talking scry-and-die situations, that now requires at least three characters involved; one to scry, one to teleport, and one to impliment the die. While I am sure the Swiftblade would still be as effective as it has been, this most certainly is not because of Scry, Contact Other Plane, or any 9th-level spellcasting.

[Mystify]

Making Dispel Magic universal wouldn't take it away from the Abjurer; it would give it to everyone.

Still, I feel like the abjurer should be better at dispelling magic. Maybe give them a CL boost when using dispel magic and its variants.

[JKTrickster]

The easiest way would be to extend the duration for Summon Monster I (and possibly Summon Monster II) to 1 minute/level rather than one round/level. It would give the spells more usefulness without making higher-level spells weaker.

And really, if you're taking over the battlefield with celestial eagles at 20th level, something is wrong.


Do you feel the current Summon spells are too weak? Should they be buffed up? Or toned down? Or just right?


Evocation goes from having blast to having blast, walls, and the occasional save-or-die. It might get close to the T2 range with that, but there is no way a character with such a spell list (even knowing all of it) would compete with a Sorcerer or Psion.


Should the Save-Or-Die be removed? I think they are bad as a concept anyway so I am trying to think of a way to fix them....


True, non-Wiz/Sorc spells probably don't matter what school they are in. On the other hand, Wail of the Banshee is [Sonic] but should definitely still be Necromancy, and it is questionable where the various Power Word spells should end up.

I think Wail of Banshee should be relabelled because it is only "Sonic" because of the "Wail" part. Not everything that yells should be [Sonic] seriously.

Ahh the Power Word.....they don't match Illusion. I say Enchantment. Your thoughts ShadowKnight?



Polymorph is versatile enough to be its own seperate school. In that sense, you could consider the Polymorph spells to be the existing "Transmutation" school, and all the buffs get tossed into Enchantment as 'enhancing allies'.

It was just a random idea I had upon seeing your suggested changes, so I'm not sure how much of a problem it might cause.

Would Transmutation be extremely small then? :smallconfused:

Hilariously it would still be extremely varied, but that's really odd as a design feature :smalltongue:




They already have Wall of Force, Forcecage, one of the best targets for metamagic blasting (Orb of Force), and yes, a number of prismatic spells. I would not consider the fact that they don't have much offensive to be a problem; some schools are going to be better at some things than others.

On the other hand, a wizard without Dispel Magic may be an issue. D&D 3e does kind of assume a few spells available at a certain level, and Dispel Magic/Break Enchantment is one of them. Without it, a lot of save-or-dies become literal dies, because there isn't any way to get them back. Flesh to Stone? Insanity? Dominate Person? The would require dragging the affected character back to a NPC Abjurer to cure them, and in some cases, that wouldn't be feasable or even possible.

Making Dispel Magic universal wouldn't take it away from the Abjurer; it would give it to everyone.

Hmm that's interesting. Okay so perhaps Dispel Magic SHOULD be Universal. But see below.



What is your Diviner going to be doing before 17th level, when Foresight and Time Stop come online?

As for the rest, I have not seen divination as that powerful of an effect in any situation outside of heavily railroading campaigns. Even if we are talking scry-and-die situations, that now requires at least three characters involved; one to scry, one to teleport, and one to impliment the die. While I am sure the Swiftblade would still be as effective as it has been, this most certainly is not because of Scry, Contact Other Plane, or any 9th-level spellcasting.

Yes I am sure that Diviners will need some heavy buffing. I was thinking more Offensive Chronomancer related spells, using Time to impair and deal damage to foes. Also using Time to forestall attacks and effects from happening.


Still, I feel like the abjurer should be better at dispelling magic. Maybe give them a CL boost when using dispel magic and its variants.

This is the conclusion I arrived at as well. Only Dispel Magic and the Greater version will be available.

But Abjurers will have the other versions, giving them nicer abilities, and be able to dispel in a much more efficient way (class features). Definitely something to think about.

[Mystify]

Should the Save-Or-Die be removed? I think they are bad as a concept anyway so I am trying to think of a way to fix them....

The problem is that in a normal encounter, they are rather inefficient, and a spellcaster can do much better things than take out 1 enemy. In a boss fight, it has a chance of simply destroying the big bad instantly, which is not very good game flow. And its not a particularly desireable mechanic to be throwing at the party either. "Roll a die to see if you live" is a pretty awful situation.



I think Wail of Banshee should be relabelled because it is only "Sonic" because of the "Wail" part. Not everything that yells should be [Sonic] seriously.

But being [Sonic] means that it is stopped by silence, which is an important mechanical function. Sonic just means that its based on sound, and hence anything that interferes with sound stops it. Its distinct from doing sonic damage.

[erikun]

Do you feel the current Summon spells are too weak? Should they be buffed up? Or toned down? Or just right?
The biggest problem with summons (in the overpowered sense) is that you could cast Gate or Summon Monster IX to get an Efreeti, which could then give you three Wishes without an XP cost - definitely overpowered. It could be a simple fix (require the summoner to pay the XP cost, even for SLAs that don't require one) but that is one of the big reasons that Conjuration is overpowered.

With your changes, summoners can still summon nearly anything that could cast most spells as a SLA, so the school most certainly will not be underpowered.

The biggest problem is that the class will suck at 1st level, but them again, every wizard variant sucks at 1st level. There are a few ways to stack ACFs and get ~7 spell slots at first level, from what I've heard, but most Wizard 1 characters look forward to having 2 spells and 6 HP at that point; they just won't be doing much.


Should the Save-Or-Die be removed? I think they are bad as a concept anyway so I am trying to think of a way to fix them....
It wouldn't be a bad idea. I had the thought that SoD should be changed to ability damage, where dropping them to 0 produces the "die" effect (and failing to do so would still help others kill the target faster). I do think that Flesh to Stone would be thematically appropriate with Evocation, though, and it should keep the spell itself.


I think Wail of Banshee should be relabelled because it is only "Sonic" because of the "Wail" part. Not everything that yells should be [Sonic] seriously.

But being [Sonic] means that it is stopped by silence, which is an important mechanical function. Sonic just means that its based on sound, and hence anything that interferes with sound stops it. Its distinct from doing sonic damage.
Exactly the idea. Wail of the Banshee is a sonic spell, and hence blocked by silence. Fire Shield is a fire spell, and hence doesn't work underwater. Bigby's spells are all force effects, and so would not work against the whole two monsters immune to force.

The spell subtypes tell how it will interact with other magic and in other situations. In some cases, throwing a spell into a specific school would make sense for thematic reasons - Orb of Fire into Evocation, Orb of Force into Abjuration, and Orb of Sound into Illusion in our case. On the other hand, we will still see spells in "off" schools that hold the tags because they are still more appropriate in another school. The Conjure Ice Beast line of spells (Frostburn) are all [Cold] spells, but are still purely Conjuration.


Would Transmutation be extremely small then? :smallconfused:

Hilariously it would still be extremely varied, but that's really odd as a design feature :smalltongue:
I believe Pathfinder broke up Transmutation into a number of different spells.

For a school like this, though, you might be better turning it into a set of SLAs. Something like a super-Wildshape focused class, able to transform its body and ability scores at low levels, and full-scale Polymorph at higher ones.

[JKTrickster]

The problem is that in a normal encounter, they are rather inefficient, and a spellcaster can do much better things than take out 1 enemy. In a boss fight, it has a chance of simply destroying the big bad instantly, which is not very good game flow. And its not a particularly desireable mechanic to be throwing at the party either. "Roll a die to see if you live" is a pretty awful situation.

That has always been my take on it as well. Unless anyone objects for some unforeseen reason, I will be homebrewing a new version of "Save or Die". Perhaps it inflicts a lesser effect even if the save succeeds, but doesn't go as far as outright death or incapacitation if they fail their save. That way the spellcaster doesn't feel like they've wasted a spell slot if the enemy saves, but it won't be completely binary either.



But being [Sonic] means that it is stopped by silence, which is an important mechanical function. Sonic just means that its based on sound, and hence anything that interferes with sound stops it. Its distinct from doing sonic damage.

/Facepalm. That is a good point. Ignore my late night ramblings. Even though it is [Sonic] it fits much better in Necromancy. We'll leave it as is.


The biggest problem with summons (in the overpowered sense) is that you could cast Gate or Summon Monster IX to get an Efreeti, which could then give you three Wishes without an XP cost - definitely overpowered. It could be a simple fix (require the summoner to pay the XP cost, even for SLAs that don't require one) but that is one of the big reasons that Conjuration is overpowered.

With your changes, summoners can still summon nearly anything that could cast most spells as a SLA, so the school most certainly will not be underpowered.

That is true, and I will strive to fix that. Although I don't want to just gut their Summons because that is their only source of offensive spells right now.


The biggest problem is that the class will suck at 1st level, but them again, every wizard variant sucks at 1st level. There are a few ways to stack ACFs and get ~7 spell slots at first level, from what I've heard, but most Wizard 1 characters look forward to having 2 spells and 6 HP at that point; they just won't be doing much.

Hmm perhaps there is some way we can fix that with the classes later on...



It wouldn't be a bad idea. I had the thought that SoD should be changed to ability damage, where dropping them to 0 produces the "die" effect (and failing to do so would still help others kill the target faster). I do think that Flesh to Stone would be thematically appropriate with Evocation, though, and it should keep the spell itself.

Hmm explain how though? I thought ability damage was normally considered a broken thing? But in this case, there would be a save associated with it and it would take multiple castings, is that what you're going for?

Wouldn't it still be a relative SoD for lower stat monsters?


Exactly the idea. Wail of the Banshee is a sonic spell, and hence blocked by silence. Fire Shield is a fire spell, and hence doesn't work underwater. Bigby's spells are all force effects, and so would not work against the whole two monsters immune to force.

The spell subtypes tell how it will interact with other magic and in other situations. In some cases, throwing a spell into a specific school would make sense for thematic reasons - Orb of Fire into Evocation, Orb of Force into Abjuration, and Orb of Sound into Illusion in our case. On the other hand, we will still see spells in "off" schools that hold the tags because they are still more appropriate in another school. The Conjure Ice Beast line of spells (Frostburn) are all [Cold] spells, but are still purely Conjuration.


I agree, sorry for my ramblings before. The tags should not solely decide where the spell goes.



I believe Pathfinder broke up Transmutation into a number of different spells.

For a school like this, though, you might be better turning it into a set of SLAs. Something like a super-Wildshape focused class, able to transform its body and ability scores at low levels, and full-scale Polymorph at higher ones.

My thoughts as well. I think taking the entire Polymorph, etc line out would be the easiest solution. At worst they can use the Wildshape Ranger -> MoMF route until we think of a solution.

[erikun]

Hmm explain how though? I thought ability damage was normally considered a broken thing? But in this case, there would be a save associated with it and it would take multiple castings, is that what you're going for?

Wouldn't it still be a relative SoD for lower stat monsters?
The idea is that the spell slowly petrifies your body (Flesh to Stone) or slows down your movement (Hold Person), or wears down at your life force (Finger of Death), or robs you of your individuality (Dominate). Even if you survive the attack, it has still left you "injured", and you would still need to recover from the ordeal. Mind you, the idea was in conjunction with granting melee the ability to deal ability damage as well, so it may not work out as well by itself.

Ability damage that can be applied repeatedly (such as a monster that deals STR damage) can be broken, because it is easy to stack it up repeatedly and kill something off quickly. Also, applying long-term penalities to PCs tends to be annoying, because they must then camp out and rest until their tank can hold his sword again. Single-hit kills against dragons are bad as well. It perhaps isn't an ideal solution, but it does make SoD still useable and still potential kills, without removing them entirely or just turning them into another 1d6/level spell.


And sure, Dominate will still be a SoD for animals and such. You're pretty much always going to find something that can one-hit kill a potential target, though.

[navar100]

It would help not to restrict yourself in a box of school exclusivity. Let it be ok for some spells to be in two schools. If you want Necromancy to use positive energy to buff, then Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc., can fit right in even if those spells are also in Transmutation.

[JKTrickster]

The idea is that the spell slowly petrifies your body (Flesh to Stone) or slows down your movement (Hold Person), or wears down at your life force (Finger of Death), or robs you of your individuality (Dominate). Even if you survive the attack, it has still left you "injured", and you would still need to recover from the ordeal. Mind you, the idea was in conjunction with granting melee the ability to deal ability damage as well, so it may not work out as well by itself.

Ability damage that can be applied repeatedly (such as a monster that deals STR damage) can be broken, because it is easy to stack it up repeatedly and kill something off quickly. Also, applying long-term penalities to PCs tends to be annoying, because they must then camp out and rest until their tank can hold his sword again. Single-hit kills against dragons are bad as well. It perhaps isn't an ideal solution, but it does make SoD still useable and still potential kills, without removing them entirely or just turning them into another 1d6/level spell.


And sure, Dominate will still be a SoD for animals and such. You're pretty much always going to find something that can one-hit kill a potential target, though.

Hmm I'm interested in this! Can you show me where this was first used? I'm looking for a way to patch up SoDs and Ability Damage/Drain. Ideally if a spell works 100%, it would result in outright death or at least incapitation. But not only will the hardly work at 100%, but I want them to have functionality when they fail as well (but not too much since I shouldn't take away from success).

I also have to get on revising Immunities.


It would help not to restrict yourself in a box of school exclusivity. Let it be ok for some spells to be in two schools. If you want Necromancy to use positive energy to buff, then Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc., can fit right in even if those spells are also in Transmutation.

That's definitely true. I've been looking over some spells and some definitely can be in different schools. It would be like using different approaches for the same spell effect.

[Mystify]

It would help not to restrict yourself in a box of school exclusivity. Let it be ok for some spells to be in two schools. If you want Necromancy to use positive energy to buff, then Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc., can fit right in even if those spells are also in Transmutation.

That is a good point. It should be acceptable for different classes to have overlap in their spell options.

[JKTrickster]

How appropriate would it be to start converting some Divine spells (from Druid, Cleric, etc.) to beef up Transmutation or Necromancy?

[Shadowknight12]

You've done so much already! Let me take care of Level 6 and above!

Nah, thanks, I'm already halfway there, might as well finish it.


Ehh I guess? Might as well since [Acid] exists and there is nothing I can do about it.

I never quite got the point of acid as an energy type (Rules Compendium has a whole sidebar about it that amounts, basically, to "because we felt like it"), but as you say, since it exists, might as well get it over with.


I'm....confused. A class feature adds the rider effect to the healing spells as long as they are cast in combat would incentivize in combat healing wouldn't it?

This also allows us to use broad changes instead of adjusting for every spell. It will be similar to how we add rider effects to the damaging spells by sacrificing a non-instantaneous spell for it.

Class features are optional. Also replacing them for other things is very good for customising, so they're even MORE optional. Including a rider effect in the spell itself makes that not optional. The healer *must* cast the spell in combat to gain the benefit, thereby making out of combat healing less than optimal.


Uhh...yeah. That's why downtime healing won't get the rider effects. Therefore those spells that are used for downtime healing won't get them either. Or did I phrase it wrong? :smallconfused:

Yes, and that means that out of combat healing remains the superior choice. If you give a rider effect to the Vigour line, they are no longer meant to be used out of combat and are in fact a waste if used that way. The entire point is that D&D already has a ton of ways to regain HP outside combat, so it's not like you're leaving them out in the cold.


Would it be bad to move them over? We're stepping all over Divine already....

Nah, it'll be fine. I just have to organise them. I'll get to it after SpC.

I would really appreciate it if you could compile all these lists somewhere (the OP of this thread?), for ease of reading, and keep them updated as we perform any changes. Are you up for it?


True I should stop applying that same logic here. I keep on thinking without the Illusion mentality. These should be enough...

Hah, yeah, exactly. Also, Illusion has some solid defensive buffs as well, like Blur, Displacement, Invisibility, and so on. It's really not a niche school at all.


True but I wouldn't mind knocking some of those out in order to add Time spells. Remember that Divination has a lot of repetition in its spells. Most of them are just different and oddball ways to "look over there" and "look at this" and "look at that". We can even consolidate those spells - one area that probably wouldn't be too broken if we did it carefully.

Indeed. I guess we'll have to figure out what to cut when we get to it. For the time being, let's just divide everything in piles before we get at them with the pruning shears.


Thank you for indulging my weird sense of fluff.

LOL, no problem. Besides, people who like them can easily just add them back wherever they like.


I can't find spells with [Negative] descriptor...wait I dont' think that exists...

I should stop using databases for quick searches...

Hah, no, it doesn't exist. A few examples of spells that deal negative energy damage:

Chill Touch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chillTouch.htm), Inflict Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/inflictLightWounds.htm), Harm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm). This spell deals positive energy damage: Bolt of Glory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/boltOfGlory.htm). It also highlights an issue I have with D&D magic as is: Negative and Positive energy flipflop all the time about whether or not they're neutral or aligned. On the one hand, you have the official definition, which states they're both neutral. On the other, you have ample contradictions, such as the fact that rebuking undead is evil because it uses negative energy, spells like bolt of glory do extra damage to non-undead evil creatures, non-intelligent undead are still evil and so on. We should seriously rewrite those spells and get rid of the alignment implications. After all, whoever doesn't agree with that can just add the [Evil] tag again on Animate Dead.


That certainly makes sense. I would like Necromancy to have something more unique about it than "Undead".

It definitely has a lot of unique stuff beyond positive and negative energy. It gets debilitating effects, soul magic, curses, blessings, restorations and the like.


Honestly maybe we can add something to [Alchemy] to help even these spells out. Perhaps Alchemy is an unstable branch of magic, and it requires concentration. Otherwise the spells expire by the end of the round instead of the full duration?

Or even require that pre-existing material must be present, since it cannot create things out of nothing. And of course we can nerf some of these spells. I only want to do this enough so that Transmutation gets its necessary tools to be viable.

Hmmm. We'll see. Sounds a bit complicated, but we might need it. As you will see below, Transmutation gets A LOT of spells from SpC, most of them overwhelmingly at low levels. It may really not even need it.

I'll have to look closer to these spells and see if a Transmuter can remain viable relying on lower-level spells at higher levels.


No because those spellcasters would depend on Prismatic to be their only source of damage or defense. Then in that aspect each of the casters would be extremely similar and less specialized. I am trying to avoid Prismatic + school outlook.

While you are very right, you can't avoid the "Universal + School" aspect, since ALL mages will have the stuff from universal, and giving them something to attack and defend themselves with really is only common sense. Otherwise you get the Diviner, who becomes overly reliant on their trusty crossbow for most of its career, and the Conjurer, who bursts into tears if anything happens to his beloved summons before he has access to the teleportation spells.

I am not saying Prismatic has to be it, but you know, as Universal stands right now, the most offensive spell it has is Wish. And using Wish to replicate another school's offensive spell is a bit overkill and expensive.

------

Moving Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic to Universal wouldn't be such a terrible idea, if the rest of the dispel variations stay in Abjuration. Maybe Break Enchantment too, since it's really necessary in some cases. But eh, I'll have to review the spell to see if it's genuinely the case.

------

SPELL! COMPENDIUM! GRAAAAWR!

0-LEVEL

Evoc
Electric Jolt: Ranged touch attack deals 1d3 electricity damage.
Illus
Silent Portal: Negates sound from door or window.
Sonic Snap: Subject takes 1 point of sonic damage and is deafened 1 round.
Trans
Amanuensis: Copy nonmagical text.
Stick: Glues an object weighing 5 pounds or less to another object.
Univ
Launch Bolt: Launches a crossbow bolt up to 80 ft.
Launch Item: Hurls Fine item up to Medium range.

1ST-LEVEL

Abjur
Dispel Ward: As dispel magic, but affects only wards.
Ectoplasmic Armor: Gain armor bonus against incorporeal touch attacks.
Ironguts: Subject gains +5 bonus on saving throws against poison.
Nightshield: You gain resistance bonus on saves, and spell absorbs magic missile damage.
Persistent Blade: Blade of force attacks subject, automatically flanks.
Resist Planar Alignment: Subject can resist penalties for being of an opposed alignment on an aligned Outer Plane.
Conj
Benign Transposition: Two willing subjects switch places.
Buzzing Bee: Bee gives subject –10 penalty on Move Silently and hinders Concentration checks. Becomes Summoning subschool.
Portal Beacon: You grant others knowledge of a magic portal’s location.
Scatterspray: Group of small objects flies apart in a burst.
Shieldbearer: Shield floats near subject to offer protection. Refluffed as teleporting a shield.
Slide: Move subject 5 feet.
Div
Appraising Touch: Gain +10 bonus on Appraise checks.
Arrow Mind: You threaten nearby squares with your bow and fire without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Cheat: Caster rerolls when determining the success of a game of chance.
Critical Strike: For 1 round you gain +1d6 damage, doubled threat range, and +4 on attack rolls to confirm critical threats.
Guided Shot: You ignore distance, cover, concealment penalties with your ranged attacks for 1 round.
Insightful Feint: Gain +10 on your next Bluff check to feint in combat.
Sniper’s Shot: No range limit on next ranged sneak attack.
Targeting Ray: You and allies are +1 to hit/3 levels against subject.
Ench
Distract: Subjects take –4 on Concentration, Listen, Search, and Spot.
Distract Assailant: One creature is flat-footed for 1 round.
Incite: Subjects can’t ready actions or delay.
Inhibit: Subject delays until next round.
Serene Visage: Gain insight bonus on Bluff checks equal to half your level.
Shock and Awe: Flat-footed creatures get –10 on initiative.
Evoc
Corrosive Grasp: 1 touch/level deals 1d8 acid damage.
Deep Breath: Your lungs are filled with air.
Hail of Stone: Stones deal 1d4 points of damage/level to creatures in the area (max 5d4).
Ice Dagger: Grenadelike weapon deals subject 1d4/level cold damage, plus area damage.
Raging Flame: Fires burn twice as hot, half as long.
Ray of Flame: Ray deals 1d6/2 levels fire damage, ignites subject.
Slow Burn: Fires burn twice as long.
Thunderhead: Small lightning bolts deal 1 damage/round.
Illus
Dead End: Removes spoor of one creature/level.
Guiding Light: +2 on ranged attacks against creatures in illuminated area.
Light of Lunia: You radiate silvery light, which you can expend as 2 bolts that deal 1d6 damage.
Luminous Gaze: Your eyes emit light, dazzle creatures.
Net of Shadows: Ordinary shadows that provide concealment to all in the area.
Sonic Blast: Subject takes 1d4/2 levels sonic damage plus deafness.
Necro
Summon Undead I: Summons undead to fight for you.
Trans
Accelerated Movement: Balance, Climb, or Move Silently at normal speed with no penalty on skill check.
Babau Slime: Secrete a body-covering acid that damages attacking foes.
Blood Wind: Subject uses natural weapons at range.
Breath Flare: Your breath weapon dazzles subjects.
Cutting Hand: Your hand gains a +2 enhancement bonus and deals 1d6 damage.
Ebon Eyes: Subject can see through magical darkness.
Horrible Taste: Touched creature or object nauseates biting or swallowing foes.
Low-Light Vision: See twice as far as a human in poor illumination.
Remove Scent: Hides touched creature’s scent.
Wall of Smoke: Wall of black smoke obscures vision and nauseates those who pass through.
Weapon Shift: Touched weapon changes form.
Wings of the Sea: +30 ft. to subject’s swim speed.
Univ
Expeditious Retreat, Swift: Your speed increases by 30 ft. for 1 round.
Mage Hand, Greater: As mage hand, but medium range and up to 40 lb.
Spell Flower: Hold the charge on one touch spell per forelimb.

2ND-LEVEL

Abjur
Alarm, Greater: As alarm, and it works on coexistent planes.
Blast of Force: Attack deals 1d6 damage/2 levels (max 5d6).
Daggerspell Stance: You gain +2 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls if you make a full attack, SR 5 + caster level if you fight defensively, and DR 5/magic if you use the total defense action.
Dissonant Chant: Concentration checks more difficult within area of spell.
Distracting Ray: Ray forces spellcaster to make Concentration check.
Earth Lock: Constricts tunnel, preventing access. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Ectoplasmic Feedback: Incorporeal attackers take 1d6 damage + 1/level.
Force Ladder: Creates an immobile ladder of force.
Scintillating Scales: Your natural armor bonus turns into a deflection bonus.
Conj
Baleful Transposition: Two subjects switch places.
Battering Ram: Deals 1d6 damage plus bull rush.
Cloak Pool: Hide a color pool on the Astral Plane from view.
Discolor Pool: Change the color of a color pool on the Astral Plane.
Ethereal Chamber: You entrap an ethereal subject in a chamber of force.
Ghost Touch Armor: Armor works normally against incorporeal attacks.
Portal Alarm: You are alerted when a creature passes through a warded portal.
Slapping Hand: Hand makes creature provoke attacks of opportunity. Becomes Summoning subschool.
Slide, Greater: Move subject 20 feet.
Div
Balancing Lorecall: You gain a +4 bonus on Balance checks and can balance on difficult surfaces if you have 5 or more ranks in Balance.
Chain of Eyes: See through other creatures’ eyes.
Lively Step: You and allies gain +10 increase to speed.
Marked Object: You gain bonus to track a specific being.
Ench
Delusions of Grandeur: Subject thinks it is better than it is.
Entice Gift: Subject gives caster what it’s holding.
Mechanus Mind: Reformat subject’s mind to be coldly calculating.
Mindless Rage: Subject compelled to attack you physically for 1 round/level.
Rebuke: Subject is dazed 1 round, then shaken.
Speak to Allies: Subjects can converse at distance without moving lips.
Sting Ray: Subject of ray can take only standard or move action, has –2 AC, and must make Concentration checks to cast spells.
Evoc
Body of the Sun: Your body emanates fire, dealing 1d4 fire damage/2 levels.
Burning Sword: Weapon gains flaming burst special ability.
Combust: Subject takes 1d8/level fire damage and might catch fire.
Electric Loop: Deals 1d6/2 levels electricity damage plus stunning to a single creature.
Fireburst: Creatures within 10 feet take 1d8/level fire damage.
Flame Dagger: Beam of fire deals 1d4 damage +1/level.
Fly, Swift: Gain fly speed of 60 ft. for 1 round. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Frost Breath: Icy breath deals 1d4 damage/2 levels.
Ice Knife: Magical shard of ice deals 2d8 cold damage plus 2 Dex damage, or deals 1d8 cold damage in 10-ft.-radius burst.
Ray of Ice: Ray deals 1d6 cold damage/2 levels.
Scorch: Jet of flame deals 1d8/2 levels (max 5d8).
Snowball Swarm: Snowballs deal 2d6 points of cold damage in 10-ft. burst.
Illus
Bladeweave: Your melee attack dazes your opponent.
Dark Way: Creates temporary unbreakable bridge supporting up to 200 lb./level.
Disguise Undead: Change appearance of one corporeal undead.
Light of Mercuria: You radiate golden light, which you can expend as 2 bolts that deal 1d6 damage, 2d6 against undead and evil outsiders.
Phantom Foe: Subject is always flanked by one creature.
Reflective Disguise: Viewers see you as their own species and gender.
Shadow Mask: Grants +4 on saves against light spells, protection from gaze attacks.
Shadow Radiance: Area filled with intense light that grows brighter.
Shadow Spray: Deals 4 points of Str damage and dazes.
Veil of Shadow: Darkness grants you concealment.
Wall of Gloom: Shadow barrier obscures vision.
Necro
Bonefiddle: Spectral fiddle bow deals 3d6 damage/round.
Curse of Impending Blades: Subject takes –2 penalty to AC.
Death Armor: Black aura damages creatures attacking you.
Desiccating Bubble: Globe of air damages by evaporating moisture from subject.
Ghoul Glyph: Glyph wards area, paralyzes victims.
Life Bolt: 1 ray/2 levels draws 1 hp from you to deal 1d12 damage to undead. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Ray of Sickness: Subject becomes sickened.
Ray of Weakness: Subject takes –2 on attacks, –10 ft. speed.
Shroud of Undeath: Negative energy shroud makes undead perceive you as undead.
Spawn Screen: Subject resists being transformed into an undead spawn if slain.
Stolen Breath: Subject has wind knocked out of it.
Stone Bones: Corporeal undead gains +3 natural armor bonus.
Summon Undead II: Summons undead to fight for you.
Wracking Touch: Deal 1d6 damage +1/level; you also deal sneak attack damage if you have any.
Trans
Balor Nimbus: Your flaming body damages foes in grapple. Loses the [Fire] descriptor.
Belker Claws: Touch attack deals 2d12 damage and lingers +1 round/3 levels.
Bristle: Armor spikes attack with wearer.
Cloud of Bewilderment: Generates a nauseating 10-ft. cube.
Earthbind: Subject creature can’t fly.
Earthen Grasp: Arm made of earth and soil grapples foes. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Extend Tentacles: +5 ft. to reach of tentacle attack.
Fearsome Grapple: You grow tentacles that help you grapple.
Fins to Feet: Transforms tails and fins into legs and feet.
Fuse Arms: Multiple arms/tentacles become one pair of stronger limbs.
Infernal Wound: Weapon deals persistent, bleeding wounds.
Inky Cloud: Obscures sight underwater beyond 5 ft.
Ironthunder Horn: Intense vibrations trip those in area.
Malevolent Miasma: Cloud of fog deals 1d4 nonlethal damage/level.
Mountain Stance: Subject becomes hard to move.
Razorfangs: Your bite or claw attack threatens a critical hit on a 19 or 20.
Scale Weakening: Subject’s natural armor weakens.
Snake’s Swiftness: Subject immediately makes one attack.
Sonic Weapon: Weapon touched deals +1d6 sonic damage with each hit.
Surefooted Stride: You can move over rubble as easily as you can over open ground.
Wings of Air: Subject’s flight maneuverability improves by one step.
Univ
Create Magic Tattoo: Subject receives a magic tattoo with various effects.
Hurl: Thrown weapon returns to thrower.
Rainbow Beam: Ray dazzles and deals 1d12 damage/3 levels of random type.

3RD-LEVEL

Abjur
Antidragon Aura: Allies gain bonus to AC and saves against dragons.
Avoid Planar Effects: Provides temporary protection against overtly damaging planar traits.
Chain Missile: Multiple missiles deal 1d4+1 damage each, then strike secondary targets.
Eradicate Earth: Deals 1d8 points of damage/level to earth creatures (max 10d8). Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Mage Armor, Mass: As mage armor, but one creature/level.
Manyjaws: One set of jaws/level attacks enemies for 1d6 damage.
Reverse Arrows: As protection from arrows, but negated arrows turn back upon their source.
Spell Vulnerability: Reduce creature’s spell resistance by 1/caster level (max reduction 15).
Conj
Analyze Portal: Find a nearby portal and discover its properties.
Demon Dirge: Demons are stunned and take 3d6 damage/round for 1d4 rounds.
Devil Blight: Damage and stun baatezu; damage other lawful and evil creatures.
Regal Procession: As mount, but you summon several mounts.
Shadow Phase: Subject becomes partially incorporeal.
Spectral Weapon: Use quasi-real weapon to make touch attacks.
Vipergout: You spit forth celestial or fiendish vipers that attack your foes.
Div
Circle Dance: Indicates direction to known individual.
Telepathic Bond, Lesser: Link with subject within 30 ft. for 10 minutes/level.
Ench
Mesmerizing Glare: Your gaze fascinates creatures.
Miser’s Envy: Subject jealously covets nearby object.
Ray of Dizziness: Subject can take only move or standard actions.
Suppress Breath Weapon: Subject can’t use its breath weapon.
Evoc
Acid Breath: Cone of acid deals 1d6 damage/level (max 10d6).
Capricious Zephyr: Gale-force winds push creatures.
Earthen Grace: Subject takes only nonlethal damage from stone and earth.
Hailstones: Frigid globes deal 5d6 cold damage.
Icelance: Changes ice into lance, which attacks subject for 6d6 damage and stuns for 1d4 rounds.
Scintillating Sphere: 20-ft.-radius burst deals 1d6 electricity/level.
Illus
Blacklight: Create an area of total darkness.
Claws of Darkness: Claws deal 1d8 cold damage and have reach.
Cone of Dimness: Subjects believe they are engulfed in magical darkness.
Flashburst: Flash of light dazzles and blinds creatures in area.
Glowing Orb: Creates permanent magical light; you control brightness.
Great Thunderclap: Loud noise causes stunning, deafness, and knocks prone in a large area.
Light of Venya: You radiate pearly light, which you can expend as 2 bolts that deal 2d6 damage, 4d6 against undead and evil outsiders.
Resonating Bolt: Sonic energy deals 1d4 damage/ level (max 10d4).
Shadow Cache: You open a small portal to the Plane of Shadow through which you can put an item for later retrieval.
Shatterfloor: Deals 1d4 sonic/level plus damages floor surface.
Sonorous Hum: Removes need to concentrate to maintain next spell cast.
Sound Lance: Sonic energy deals 1d8/level damage.
Suspended Silence: Object becomes programmed to create an area of silence at your command.
Wall of Light: Creates wall of light, can dazzle creatures.
Necro
Blade of Pain and Fear: Creates blade of gnashing teeth.
Contagious Fog: 20-ft.-radius cloud of fog inflicts disease.
Curse of Impending Blades, Mass: Enemies take –2 penalty to AC.
Disrupt Undead, Greater: As disrupt undead, but 1d8 damage/level. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Healing Touch: Heal subject 1d6/2 levels, but take damage equal to half. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Incorporeal Enhancement: Grant bonuses to incorporeal undead.
Junglerazer: Fey, vermin, plants, and animals take 1d10 damage/level.
Nauseating Breath: Exhale a cone of nauseating gas.
Skull Watch: Skull shrieks when creature enters warded area.
Spider Poison: Touch deals 1d6 Str damage, repeats in 1 minute.
Summon Undead III: Summons undead to fight for you.
Undead Lieutenant: Chosen undead can give orders to undead in your control.
Undead Torch: Undead creature gains blue aura that gives +2d6 damage against living creatures.
Trans
Air Breathing: Subjects can breathe air freely.
Amorphous Form: Subject becomes puddlelike and can slip through cracks quickly.
Bite of the Wererat: You gain the Dexterity and attacks of a wererat.
Deeper Darkvision: Subject can see 90 ft. in magical darkness.
Diamondsteel: Metal armor provides damage reduction.
Dolorous Blow: Weapon’s threat range is doubled and threats are automatically confirmed.
Dragonskin: You gain a bonus to natural armor plus energy resistance 10.
False Gravity: Travel on a solid surface as if that surface had its own gravity.
Giant’s Wrath: Pebbles you throw become boulders.
Girallon’s Blessing: Subject gains one additional pair of arms.
Hamatula Barbs: Subjects grow barbs, which damage foes that attack subject in melee.
Rust Ray: Metal objects take 2d6 damage +1/2 levels.
Snake’s Swiftness, Mass: Allies each immediately make one attack.
Spiderskin: Subject gains increasing bonus to natural armor, saves against poison, and Hide checks.
Steeldance: Blades hover around you and attack foes.
Tremorsense: Grants tremorsense to a range of 30 feet.
Weapon of Energy: Weapon deals extra energy damage.
Weapon of Impact: As keen edge, but aids bludgeoning weapons.
Univ
Rainbow Blast: Line deals 1d6 damage of each energy type.

4TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Backlash: Subject takes damage if it uses spells against another creature.
Dispelling Screen: Targeted dispel magic on any creatures and unattended items, +10 max on caster level check.
Floating Disk, Greater: As floating disk, but you can ride it.
Force Chest: 2-ft-cube chest made of force.
Force Claw: Claw of force guards an area, making opportunity attacks.
Force Missiles: Unerring missiles of force strike for 2d6 damage and explode in a burst.
Forceward: Creates a sphere of force that protects against force effects and keeps out incorporeal creatures.
Forcewave: Bull rushes all creatures within 10 ft.
Ray Deflection: Ray attacks are reflected away.
Ray of Deanimation: Ray deals 1d6 damage/level to constructs.
Resistance, Greater: Subject gains +3 on saving throws.
Resist Energy, Mass: Creatures ignore damage from specified energy type.
Vortex of Teeth: 3d8 points of damage due to force per round to all creatures in the area.
Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Wall blocks creatures of opposite alignment.
Wingbind: A net of force entangles the subject, causing it to fall from the sky.
Conj
Bloodstar: Hovering construct does Con damage each time foe is damaged.
Ethereal Mount: You conjure swift mounts on the Ethereal Plane.
Fire Stride: Teleport from one fire to another. Loses the [Fire] descriptor.

Perinarch: Gain greater control over Limbo’s morphic essence.
Portal Alarm, Improved: Warded portal alerts you or a creature designated by you to creatures passing through it.
Scramble Portal: You randomize the destination of a magic portal.
Translocation Trick: You and subject switch places and appear as each other.
Div
Know Vulnerabilities: Determine subject’s vulnerabilities and resistances.
Ruin Delver’s Fortune: Cast on another creature’s turn and choose one of several benefits.
Treasure Scent: You detect valuable metals and gems.
Ench
Battle Hymn: Allies can reroll one Will save/round.
Rebuke, Greater: Subject cowers for 1d4 rounds.
Voice of the Dragon: +10 on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks; can use one suggestion.
Evoc
Blast of Flame: 60-ft. cone of fire (1d6/level damage).
Dragon Breath: You choose a dragon type and mimic its breath weapon.
Explosive Cascade: Bouncing flame ball deals 1d6/level fire damage.
Flame Whips: Your forelimbs deal 6d6 fire damage.
Stone Sphere: 3-ft.-diameter stone sphere rolls over your enemies.
Thunderlance: Lance of force deals 3d6 damage and might dispel force effects.
Wall of Sand: Swirling sand blocks ranged attacks, slows movement through.
Wall of Water: Creates shapeable transparent wall of water.
Illus
Sensory Deprivation: All of subject’s senses are blocked.
Shadow Well: Subject enters gloomy pocket plane and emerges frightened.
Necro
Rebuking Breath: Your breath weapon rebukes undead.
Summon Undead IV: Summons undead to fight for you.
Trans
Attune Form: Grant creature temporary protection against overtly damaging planar traits.
Bite of the Werewolf: You gain the Strength and attacks of a werewolf.
Blinding Breath: Your breath weapon blinds subjects.
Corporeal Instability: Transform a creature into an amorphous mass.
Darkvision, Mass: As darkvision, but affects one/level subjects.
Displacer Form: You change into displacer beast, gain some abilities.
Entangling Staff: Quarterstaff can grapple and constrict foes.
Flight of the Dragon: You grow dragon wings.
Metal Melt: Melts metal object without heat.
Raise from the Deep: Creature or sunken ship made buoyant.
Sharptooth: One of your natural weapons deals damage as if you were one size larger.
Wings of Air, Greater: Subject’s flight maneuverability improves by two steps.
Univ
Energy Spheres: Five colored spheres attack with or negate acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy.
Spell Enhancer: Lets you cast another spell in the same round at +2 caster level.

5TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Anticold Sphere: Sphere hedges out cold creatures and protects you from cold.
Contingent Energy Resistance: Energy damage triggers a resist energy spell.
Dispelling Breath: Your breath weapon acts as a targeted dispel magic to all creatures in its area.
Ironguard, Lesser: Subject becomes immune to nonmagical metal.
Indomitability: Subject can’t be reduced below 1 hp.
Shard Storm: Blast deals 3d6 damage to creatures in area.
Symbol of Spell Loss: Triggered rune absorbs spells yet to be cast.
Wall of Dispel Magic: Creatures passing through a transparent wall becomes subjects of targeted dispel magic.
Conj
Blink, Greater: Controlled blinking between the Material and Ethereal Planes grants defenses for 1 round/level.
Dimension Door, Greater: Short-range, multiple use dimension door.
Ethereal Breath: Your breath weapon manifests on the Ethereal Plane.
Planar Tolerance: Provides long-term protection against overtly damaging planar traits.
Zone of Respite: Prevents teleportation and similar effects from functioning in the area.
Ench
Stunning Breath: Your breath weapon also stuns creatures for 1 round.
Evoc
Acid Sheath: Sheath of acid damages those who attack you, enhances acid spells.
Ball Lightning: Energy ball deals 1d6/level electricity damage.
Cyclonic Blast: Deals 1d6 damage/level, knocks down creatures.
Earth Reaver: Eruption deals 7d6 damage to all in area.
Fire Shield, Mass: Creatures attacking allies take damage; allies are protected from fire or cold.
Firebrand: One 5-ft. burst/level deals 1d6 fire/level plus burning for 1 round.
Fireburst, Greater: Subjects within 15 ft. take 1d10/level fire damage.
Fly, Mass: One creature/level flies at speed of 60 ft. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Moonbow: Three motes of electricity each deal 1d6/2 levels electricity damage to subjects.
Shroud of Flame: Subject bursts into flames, taking 2d6 fire damage/round.
Illus
Cacophonic Burst: Noise deals 1d6/level sonic damage to all within area.
Cacophonic Shield: Shield 10 ft. from you blocks sounds, deals 1d6 sonic damage +1/level, and deafens creatures passing through.
Illusory Feast: Subjects become dazed by illusory food.
Phantasmal Thief: Creates an unseen force that steals from others.
Shadow Form: Gain +4 on Hide, Move Silently, and Escape Artist checks, and concealment; you can move through obstacles if you have ranks in Escape Artist.
Shadow Hand: Medium hand blocks opponents or carries items.
Shadowfade: Opens a portal to the Plane of Shadow.
Sonic Rumble: Cone of sound deals damage.
Necro
Death Throes: Your body explodes when you die.
Graymantle: Inhibits creature’s ability to heal and regenerate for 1 round/level.
Miasma of Entropy: Rot all natural materials in 30-ft. cone-shaped burst.
Night’s Caress: Touched foe takes 1d6 points of damage/level plus 1d6+2 Con damage.
Summon Undead V: Summons undead to fight for you.
Wall of Limbs: Whirling limbs deal 5d6 damage and grab creatures passing through.
Trans
Bite of the Wereboar: You gain the Strength and attacks of a wereboar.
Breath Weapon Substitution: Your breath weapon deals a different kind of damage than normal.
Draconic Might: Gain +5 to Str, Con, Cha; +4 natural armor; immunity to magic sleep and paralysis effects.
Dragonsight: Gain low-light vision, darkvision, and blindsense.
Enlarge Person, Greater: Subject remains enlarged for 1 hour/level.
Gutsnake: 10-ft. tentacle grows from your stomach and attacks your enemies.
Lucent Lance: Ambient light forms lance, deals various damage.
Nightstalker’s Transformation: Gain +4 Dex, +3 luck bonus to AC, +5 luck bonus on Ref saves, +3d6 sneak attack, and evasion.
Reduce Person, Greater: Subject remains reduced for 10 minutes/level.
Surefooted Stride, Mass: As surefooted stride but multiple subjects.
Vulnerability: Reduces an opponent’s damage reduction.
Xorn Movement: Touched creature swims through earth like a xorn.
Univ
Spell Matrix, Lesser: Magical matrix stores a 3rd-level or lower spell to be cast later as quickened spell.

6TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Aura of Evasion: All within 10 ft. gain evasion against breath weapons.
Howling Chain: Chain of force trips and attacks opponents.
Ruby Ray of Reversal: Ray negates magical or mundane hazards.
Resistance, Superior: Subject gains +6 on saving throws.
Conj
Extract Water Elemental: Pulls water from victim, forms water elemental.
Fire Spiders: Swarm of Fine fire elementals deals fire damage in an area.
Gemjump: Teleport to the location of a specially prepared gem.
Make Manifest: You cause a creature on a coexistent plane to appear on your plane.
Seal Portal: Seal an interplanar portal or gate.
Subvert Planar Essence: Reduces subject’s damage reduction and spell resistance.
Transcribe Symbol: Safely moves an untriggered magical symbol to another location.
Tunnel Swallow: Tunnel’s peristaltic convulsions deal 1d6 points of damage/level (max 15d6).
Wall of Gears: Creates wall of moving gears that deals 1d6 damage/2 levels to creatures within 10 ft.
Div
Dream Casting: Alter subject’s dreams to produce desired effect.
Ench
Imperious Glare: You cause subjects to cower in fear.
Probe Thoughts: Read subject’s memories, one question/round.
Interplanar Telepathic Bond: Link lets allies communicate across planes.
Evoc
Acid Storm: Deals 1d6/level acid damage (max 15d6) in a 20-ft. radius.
Cloak of the Sea: Gain blur, freedom of movement, and water breathing while in water.
Fires of Purity: Subject bursts into magical flame, becoming a dangerous weapon.
Illus
Ray of Light: Ray blinds subject.
Shadowy Grappler: Illusory force grapples subject.
Necro
Aura of Terror: You gain an aura of fear, or your frightful presence becomes more effective.
Contagion, Mass: As contagion, but 20-ft. radius.
Fleshshiver: Subject is stunned for 1 round, takes 1d6/level damage, and is nauseated for 1d4+2 rounds.
Ghoul Gauntlet: Convert victim to a ghoul under your control.
Incorporeal Nova: Destroy incorporeal undead.
Opalescent Glare: Kill creatures with a look, or make them very afraid.
Ray of Entropy: Subject takes –4 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
Revive Undead: Restores undeath to undead that was destroyed up to 1 day/level ago.
Trans
Freezing Fog: Fog slows creatures, obscures vision, hinders movement.
Bite of the Weretiger: You gain the Strength and attacks of a weretiger.
Brilliant Blade: Weapon or projectiles shed light, ignore armor.
Hardening: Increases object’s hardness by 1 point/2 levels.
Ooze Puppet: You telekinetically control an ooze.
Stone Body: Your body becomes living stone.

7TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Antimagic Ray: Subject loses all magical powers.
Dispelling Screen, Greater: Targeted dispel magic on any creatures and unattended items, +20 max on caster level check.
Hide from Dragons: Dragons can’t perceive one subject/2 levels.
Ironguard: Subject becomes immune to all metal.
Conj
Animate Breath: Your breath weapon becomes an elemental.
Ghost Trap: Incorporeal creatures turn corporeal.
Planar Bubble: Create bubble around creature that emulates its native planar environment.
Ench
Hiss of Sleep: You induce comatose slumber in subjects.
Rebuke, Final: As rebuke, except the subject must save or die.
Stun Ray: Subject stunned 1d4+1 rounds.
Symphonic Nightmare: Discordant noise haunts subject’s sleep.
Transfix: Humanoids freeze in place until condition you specify is met.
Evoc
Ice Claw: Claw of ice grapples and deals cold damage.
Submerge Ship: You control ship mentally while it travels underwater.
Illus
Radiant Assault: 1d6 damage/level, victims dazed or dazzled.
Solipsism: Subject believes it alone exists.
Necro
Avasculate: Reduce foe to half hp and stun.
Awaken Undead: Grant sentience to otherwise mindless undead.
Barghest’s Feast: Destroy corpse, potentially preventing its return to life.
Evil Glare: Paralyze creatures with your glare.
Kiss of the Vampire: You gain vampirelike supernatural abilities, but are vulnerable to attacks that harm undead.
Synostodweomer: Channel a spell into positive energy to cure 1d8/spell level.
Trans
Bite of the Werebear: You gain the Strength and attacks of a werebear.
Body of War: You change into warforged titan, gain some abilities.
Brilliant Aura: Allies’ weapons become brilliant energy, ignoring armor.
Elemental Body: You take on the qualities of a type of elemental.
Glass Strike: Turns subject into glass.
Stone Shape, Greater: Sculpts 10 cu. ft. + 10 cu. ft./level of stone into any shape.
Univ
Energy Transformation Field: Area absorbs magic energy to power a predetermined spell.
Prismatic Eye: Orb produces individual prismatic rays as touch attacks.
Spell Matrix: Stores up to two spells of 3rd level or lower to be released later.

8TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Wall of Greater Dispel Magic: Creatures passing through a transparent wall become subjects of targeted greater dispel magic.
Conj
Fierce Pride of the Beastlands: Summon celestial lions and celestial dire lions to follow your commands.
Ghostform: You assume incorporeal form and gain some incorporeal traits and bonuses.
Make Manifest, Mass: As make manifest but affecting all creatures in the area.
Plane Shift, Greater: Plane shift accurately to your desired destination.
Ench
Maddening Whispers: You induce confusion and madness in subjects.
Stunning Breath, Greater: Your breath weapon also stuns creatures for 2d4 rounds.
Wrathful Castigation: Subject dies or is dazed and –4 on saves for 1 round/level.
Evoc
Field of Icy Razors: Creatures in area take normal and cold damage, might be slowed.
Lightning Ring: Ring of lightning gives you resistance to electricity 20, damages adjacent creatures, and emits two lightning bolts per round.
Illus
Shifting Paths: Illusion hides path, creates false new path.
Necro
Avascular Mass: Reduce foe to half hp and stun, entangle in 20-ft. radius from victim.
Bestow Curse, Greater: As bestow curse, but more severe penalties.
Skeletal Guard: Create one skeleton/level with turn resistance.
Veil of Undeath: You gain undead traits.
Trans
Excavate: Creates a permanent passage in earth and walls.
Univ
Spell Engine: Wizard only. Swap out prepared spells for other spells in your spellbook.

9TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Effulgent Epuration: Creates one sphere/level to negate hostile magic.
Magic Miasma: Solid fog reduces caster level by –4.
Maw of Chaos: Chaotic energy dazes, deals damage, impedes concentration.
Unbinding: Frees everyone in range from spells that constrain or bind.
Conj
Abyssal Army: Summons demons to fight for you.
Black Blade of Disaster: Floating magic weapon disintegrates subjects.
Instant Refuge: Transport to a safe location of your choice.
Heavenly Host: Summons archons to fight for you.
Hellish Horde: Summons devils to fight for you.
Perinarch, Planar: Gain control over a small area of any divinely morphic plane.
Reality Maelstrom: Hole in reality sends creatures and objects to another plane.
Summon Elemental Monolith: Calls powerful elemental creature to fight for you.
Div
Eye of Power: As arcane eye, but you can cast spells of 3rd level or lower through it.
Hindsight: You see into the past.
Evoc
Obedient Avalanche: Snowy avalanche crushes and buries your foes.
Necro
Awaken ConstructX: Construct gains humanlike sentience.
Plague of Undead: Animates horde of undead.
Vile Death: Undead creature gains fiendish template.
Trans
Breath Weapon Admixture: Add a second kind of energy to your breath weapon.
Undermaster: You gain earth-related spell-like abilities.
Univ
Replicate Casting: Duplicate observed spell or spell-like ability.
Spell Matrix, GreaterF: Stores up to three spells of 3rd level or lower to be released later.

Removed Spells:

Caltrops: Creates caltrops in 5-ft.-by-5-ft. square, +5-ft. square/2 levels beyond 1st (max 5). (Buy some damn caltrops, you lazy sloth)
Instant Locksmith: Make Disable Device or Open Lock check at +2 as free action.
Instant Search: Make Search check at +2 as free action.
Golem Strike: You can sneak attack constructs for 1 round.
Master’s Touch: You gain proficiency in a weapon or shield touched for 1 minute/level.
Spontaneous Search: Instantly Search area as if having taken 10.
Spirit Worm: Subject takes 1 point Con damage every round for 1 round/level.
Nerveskitter: Subject gains +5 bonus on initiative checks.
Ray of Clumsiness: Victim takes 1d6 Dexterity penalty +1/2 levels.
Ray of Stupidity: Victim takes 1d4+1 Intelligence damage.
Phantasmal Assailants: Nightmare creatures strike subject for 8 Wis damage, 8 Dex damage.
Heroics: Fighter gains one fighter bonus feat.
Quick Potion: Creates a potion that must be used within 1 hour/level.
Mind Poison: Your poisonous touch deals Wis damage.
Primal Form: You change into elemental, gain some abilities.
Call Zelekhut: A zelekhut performs one duty for you.
Dragon Ally, Lesser: Exchange services with a 9 HD dragon.
Hidden Lodge: Creates sturdy cottage camouflaged to blend into natural surroundings.
Viscid Glob: Ranged touch attack hurls 5-ft.-diameter glob of glue at subject.
Draconic Polymorph: As polymorph, but improved.
Spectral Touch: Your touch bestows one negative level/round.
Dragon Ally: As lesser dragon ally, but up to 15 HD.
Energy Ebb: Give subject one negative level/round for 1 round/level.
Call Marut: A marut performs one duty for you.
Dragon Ally, Greater: As lesser dragon ally, but up to 21 HD.
Enervating Breath: Your breath weapon also bestows 2d4 negative levels.


Analysis:

Abjuration got slightly better, especially at that one level where it got SO MANY force spells. I still recommend getting rid of the prismatic line. Not too broken, but certainly a very varied school.
Conjuration did not gain much. It gained somewhat more at higher levels but it's still a very focused, very niche school. This needs remedying.
Divination gained a lot of lower level spells, many of which do very varied things. This may well be exactly what we were looking for. I recommend going over them and seeing if it really needs more homebrewing, because I do believe it might be almost as big as the big three by now.
Enchantment got a few goodies to round it out, but it's still cripplingly dependant on mind-affecting effects. If that stops being a problem, it's a very good, very well rounded school (in fact, I'd go as far as to say it may lack variety but makes up for it in raw power. Whatever few spells it has are almost TOO good. I still recommend moving several of them up a couple of levels and introducing less powerful alternatives).
Evocation got a few more spells, but FAR less than I feared. One could move a few self-buffs from Transmutation to Evocation if one desires, but I did not think it was too necessary.
Illusion did not get as many spells as I expected. There's a level where it gets a lot of goodies, but a lot of levels where it barely gets a spell. I am not overly worried.
Necromancy got a few good spells, but it still needs those pesky positive energy divine spells to be fully rounded. Also, there's a very annoying tendency to paint Necromancy as the "dark and edgy" school. I mean, look at Synostodweomer. It turns spells into positive energy... and it was in Transmutation. Just... ugh. It won't give the school a bad rap to have a few healing spells, WotC.
Transmutation. Oh boy. Spell Compendium simultaneously improved and worsened the problem we had. I can no longer say that Transmutation does not have enough spells, because it clearly does. But they're mostly lower level. Now, the only question that remains is "can those spells make the transmuter viable at higher levels?" if yes, problem solved. If not, we have work to do.

[JKTrickster]

Nah, thanks, I'm already halfway there, might as well finish it.

Wow okay :smallbiggrin:

This is amazing stuff.


I never quite got the point of acid as an energy type (Rules Compendium has a whole sidebar about it that amounts, basically, to "because we felt like it"), but as you say, since it exists, might as well get it over with.

Yeah I know :smallsigh:


Class features are optional. Also replacing them for other things is very good for customising, so they're even MORE optional. Including a rider effect in the spell itself makes that not optional. The healer *must* cast the spell in combat to gain the benefit, thereby making out of combat healing less than optimal.


I am not sure if I understand. You are implying that no one would willingly choose that class feature?

I was saying that as a class feature, necromancers that cast these spells in combat would gain the rider effect. What's not optional about this :smallconfused:



Yes, and that means that out of combat healing remains the superior choice. If you give a rider effect to the Vigour line, they are no longer meant to be used out of combat and are in fact a waste if used that way. The entire point is that D&D already has a ton of ways to regain HP outside combat, so it's not like you're leaving them out in the cold.

Right. So we agree right :smallconfused:


Nah, it'll be fine. I just have to organise them. I'll get to it after SpC.

I would really appreciate it if you could compile all these lists somewhere (the OP of this thread?), for ease of reading, and keep them updated as we perform any changes. Are you up for it?

That seems the LEAST I could do. I can tackle Complete Divine and the Divine version of SpC if necessary. I mean you've already looked over so much!



Indeed. I guess we'll have to figure out what to cut when we get to it. For the time being, let's just divide everything in piles before we get at them with the pruning shears.

Yep totally.



Hah, no, it doesn't exist. A few examples of spells that deal negative energy damage:

Chill Touch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/chillTouch.htm), Inflict Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/inflictLightWounds.htm), Harm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/harm.htm). This spell deals positive energy damage: Bolt of Glory (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/spells/boltOfGlory.htm). It also highlights an issue I have with D&D magic as is: Negative and Positive energy flipflop all the time about whether or not they're neutral or aligned. On the one hand, you have the official definition, which states they're both neutral. On the other, you have ample contradictions, such as the fact that rebuking undead is evil because it uses negative energy, spells like bolt of glory do extra damage to non-undead evil creatures, non-intelligent undead are still evil and so on. We should seriously rewrite those spells and get rid of the alignment implications. After all, whoever doesn't agree with that can just add the [Evil] tag again on Animate Dead.

Definitely! That's something I plan on going over as I go through the spells.



Hmmm. We'll see. Sounds a bit complicated, but we might need it. As you will see below, Transmutation gets A LOT of spells from SpC, most of them overwhelmingly at low levels. It may really not even need it.

I'll have to look closer to these spells and see if a Transmuter can remain viable relying on lower-level spells at higher levels.

That seems awkward though. You rarely see spellcasters relying on "low level spells" at level 20 instead of level 9s. Perhaps we can just tweak them and make them stronger and put them at a higher level?


While you are very right, you can't avoid the "Universal + School" aspect, since ALL mages will have the stuff from universal, and giving them something to attack and defend themselves with really is only common sense. Otherwise you get the Diviner, who becomes overly reliant on their trusty crossbow for most of its career, and the Conjurer, who bursts into tears if anything happens to his beloved summons before he has access to the teleportation spells.

I am not saying Prismatic has to be it, but you know, as Universal stands right now, the most offensive spell it has is Wish. And using Wish to replicate another school's offensive spell is a bit overkill and expensive.

This is definitely a valid issue......it seems like a general "Magic Bolt" spell must be homebrewed. Otherwise, it does not seem plausible for the spellcasters to be truly viable.

What do you think about having the spells be in multiple schools?



Moving Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic to Universal wouldn't be such a terrible idea, if the rest of the dispel variations stay in Abjuration. Maybe Break Enchantment too, since it's really necessary in some cases. But eh, I'll have to review the spell to see if it's genuinely the case.

It probably is...wouldn't want every team to have to bring an Abjurer for those 3 spells.



SPELL! COMPENDIUM! GRAAAAWR!

0-LEVEL

Evoc
Electric Jolt: Ranged touch attack deals 1d3 electricity damage.
Illus
Silent Portal: Negates sound from door or window.
Sonic Snap: Subject takes 1 point of sonic damage and is deafened 1 round.
Trans
Amanuensis: Copy nonmagical text.
Stick: Glues an object weighing 5 pounds or less to another object.
Univ
Launch Bolt: Launches a crossbow bolt up to 80 ft.
Launch Item: Hurls Fine item up to Medium range.

1ST-LEVEL

Abjur
Dispel Ward: As dispel magic, but affects only wards.
Ectoplasmic Armor: Gain armor bonus against incorporeal touch attacks.
Ironguts: Subject gains +5 bonus on saving throws against poison.
Nightshield: You gain resistance bonus on saves, and spell absorbs magic missile damage.
Persistent Blade: Blade of force attacks subject, automatically flanks.
Resist Planar Alignment: Subject can resist penalties for being of an opposed alignment on an aligned Outer Plane.
Conj
Benign Transposition: Two willing subjects switch places.
Buzzing Bee: Bee gives subject –10 penalty on Move Silently and hinders Concentration checks. Becomes Summoning subschool.
Portal Beacon: You grant others knowledge of a magic portal’s location.
Scatterspray: Group of small objects flies apart in a burst.
Shieldbearer: Shield floats near subject to offer protection. Refluffed as teleporting a shield.
Slide: Move subject 5 feet.
Div
Appraising Touch: Gain +10 bonus on Appraise checks.
Arrow Mind: You threaten nearby squares with your bow and fire without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Cheat: Caster rerolls when determining the success of a game of chance.
Critical Strike: For 1 round you gain +1d6 damage, doubled threat range, and +4 on attack rolls to confirm critical threats.
Guided Shot: You ignore distance, cover, concealment penalties with your ranged attacks for 1 round.
Insightful Feint: Gain +10 on your next Bluff check to feint in combat.
Sniper’s Shot: No range limit on next ranged sneak attack.
Targeting Ray: You and allies are +1 to hit/3 levels against subject.
Ench
Distract: Subjects take –4 on Concentration, Listen, Search, and Spot.
Distract Assailant: One creature is flat-footed for 1 round.
Incite: Subjects can’t ready actions or delay.
Inhibit: Subject delays until next round.
Serene Visage: Gain insight bonus on Bluff checks equal to half your level.
Shock and Awe: Flat-footed creatures get –10 on initiative.
Evoc
Corrosive Grasp: 1 touch/level deals 1d8 acid damage.
Deep Breath: Your lungs are filled with air.
Hail of Stone: Stones deal 1d4 points of damage/level to creatures in the area (max 5d4).
Ice Dagger: Grenadelike weapon deals subject 1d4/level cold damage, plus area damage.
Raging Flame: Fires burn twice as hot, half as long.
Ray of Flame: Ray deals 1d6/2 levels fire damage, ignites subject.
Slow Burn: Fires burn twice as long.
Thunderhead: Small lightning bolts deal 1 damage/round.
Illus
Dead End: Removes spoor of one creature/level.
Guiding Light: +2 on ranged attacks against creatures in illuminated area.
Light of Lunia: You radiate silvery light, which you can expend as 2 bolts that deal 1d6 damage.
Luminous Gaze: Your eyes emit light, dazzle creatures.
Net of Shadows: Ordinary shadows that provide concealment to all in the area.
Sonic Blast: Subject takes 1d4/2 levels sonic damage plus deafness.
Necro
Summon Undead I: Summons undead to fight for you.
Trans
Accelerated Movement: Balance, Climb, or Move Silently at normal speed with no penalty on skill check.
Babau Slime: Secrete a body-covering acid that damages attacking foes.
Blood Wind: Subject uses natural weapons at range.
Breath Flare: Your breath weapon dazzles subjects.
Cutting Hand: Your hand gains a +2 enhancement bonus and deals 1d6 damage.
Ebon Eyes: Subject can see through magical darkness.
Horrible Taste: Touched creature or object nauseates biting or swallowing foes.
Low-Light Vision: See twice as far as a human in poor illumination.
Remove Scent: Hides touched creature’s scent.
Wall of Smoke: Wall of black smoke obscures vision and nauseates those who pass through.
Weapon Shift: Touched weapon changes form.
Wings of the Sea: +30 ft. to subject’s swim speed.
Univ
Expeditious Retreat, Swift: Your speed increases by 30 ft. for 1 round.
Mage Hand, Greater: As mage hand, but medium range and up to 40 lb.
Spell Flower: Hold the charge on one touch spell per forelimb.

2ND-LEVEL

Abjur
Alarm, Greater: As alarm, and it works on coexistent planes.
Blast of Force: Attack deals 1d6 damage/2 levels (max 5d6).
Daggerspell Stance: You gain +2 insight bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls if you make a full attack, SR 5 + caster level if you fight defensively, and DR 5/magic if you use the total defense action.
Dissonant Chant: Concentration checks more difficult within area of spell.
Distracting Ray: Ray forces spellcaster to make Concentration check.
Earth Lock: Constricts tunnel, preventing access. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Ectoplasmic Feedback: Incorporeal attackers take 1d6 damage + 1/level.
Force Ladder: Creates an immobile ladder of force.
Scintillating Scales: Your natural armor bonus turns into a deflection bonus.
Conj
Baleful Transposition: Two subjects switch places.
Battering Ram: Deals 1d6 damage plus bull rush.
Cloak Pool: Hide a color pool on the Astral Plane from view.
Discolor Pool: Change the color of a color pool on the Astral Plane.
Ethereal Chamber: You entrap an ethereal subject in a chamber of force.
Ghost Touch Armor: Armor works normally against incorporeal attacks.
Portal Alarm: You are alerted when a creature passes through a warded portal.
Slapping Hand: Hand makes creature provoke attacks of opportunity. Becomes Summoning subschool.
Slide, Greater: Move subject 20 feet.
Div
Balancing Lorecall: You gain a +4 bonus on Balance checks and can balance on difficult surfaces if you have 5 or more ranks in Balance.
Chain of Eyes: See through other creatures’ eyes.
Lively Step: You and allies gain +10 increase to speed.
Marked Object: You gain bonus to track a specific being.
Ench
Delusions of Grandeur: Subject thinks it is better than it is.
Entice Gift: Subject gives caster what it’s holding.
Mechanus Mind: Reformat subject’s mind to be coldly calculating.
Mindless Rage: Subject compelled to attack you physically for 1 round/level.
Rebuke: Subject is dazed 1 round, then shaken.
Speak to Allies: Subjects can converse at distance without moving lips.
Sting Ray: Subject of ray can take only standard or move action, has –2 AC, and must make Concentration checks to cast spells.
Evoc
Body of the Sun: Your body emanates fire, dealing 1d4 fire damage/2 levels.
Burning Sword: Weapon gains flaming burst special ability.
Combust: Subject takes 1d8/level fire damage and might catch fire.
Electric Loop: Deals 1d6/2 levels electricity damage plus stunning to a single creature.
Fireburst: Creatures within 10 feet take 1d8/level fire damage.
Flame Dagger: Beam of fire deals 1d4 damage +1/level.
Fly, Swift: Gain fly speed of 60 ft. for 1 round. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Frost Breath: Icy breath deals 1d4 damage/2 levels.
Ice Knife: Magical shard of ice deals 2d8 cold damage plus 2 Dex damage, or deals 1d8 cold damage in 10-ft.-radius burst.
Ray of Ice: Ray deals 1d6 cold damage/2 levels.
Scorch: Jet of flame deals 1d8/2 levels (max 5d8).
Snowball Swarm: Snowballs deal 2d6 points of cold damage in 10-ft. burst.
Illus
Bladeweave: Your melee attack dazes your opponent.
Dark Way: Creates temporary unbreakable bridge supporting up to 200 lb./level.
Disguise Undead: Change appearance of one corporeal undead.
Light of Mercuria: You radiate golden light, which you can expend as 2 bolts that deal 1d6 damage, 2d6 against undead and evil outsiders.
Phantom Foe: Subject is always flanked by one creature.
Reflective Disguise: Viewers see you as their own species and gender.
Shadow Mask: Grants +4 on saves against light spells, protection from gaze attacks.
Shadow Radiance: Area filled with intense light that grows brighter.
Shadow Spray: Deals 4 points of Str damage and dazes.
Veil of Shadow: Darkness grants you concealment.
Wall of Gloom: Shadow barrier obscures vision.
Necro
Bonefiddle: Spectral fiddle bow deals 3d6 damage/round.
Curse of Impending Blades: Subject takes –2 penalty to AC.
Death Armor: Black aura damages creatures attacking you.
Desiccating Bubble: Globe of air damages by evaporating moisture from subject.
Ghoul Glyph: Glyph wards area, paralyzes victims.
Life Bolt: 1 ray/2 levels draws 1 hp from you to deal 1d12 damage to undead. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Ray of Sickness: Subject becomes sickened.
Ray of Weakness: Subject takes –2 on attacks, –10 ft. speed.
Shroud of Undeath: Negative energy shroud makes undead perceive you as undead.
Spawn Screen: Subject resists being transformed into an undead spawn if slain.
Stolen Breath: Subject has wind knocked out of it.
Stone Bones: Corporeal undead gains +3 natural armor bonus.
Summon Undead II: Summons undead to fight for you.
Wracking Touch: Deal 1d6 damage +1/level; you also deal sneak attack damage if you have any.
Trans
Balor Nimbus: Your flaming body damages foes in grapple. Loses the [Fire] descriptor.
Belker Claws: Touch attack deals 2d12 damage and lingers +1 round/3 levels.
Bristle: Armor spikes attack with wearer.
Cloud of Bewilderment: Generates a nauseating 10-ft. cube.
Earthbind: Subject creature can’t fly.
Earthen Grasp: Arm made of earth and soil grapples foes. Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Extend Tentacles: +5 ft. to reach of tentacle attack.
Fearsome Grapple: You grow tentacles that help you grapple.
Fins to Feet: Transforms tails and fins into legs and feet.
Fuse Arms: Multiple arms/tentacles become one pair of stronger limbs.
Infernal Wound: Weapon deals persistent, bleeding wounds.
Inky Cloud: Obscures sight underwater beyond 5 ft.
Ironthunder Horn: Intense vibrations trip those in area.
Malevolent Miasma: Cloud of fog deals 1d4 nonlethal damage/level.
Mountain Stance: Subject becomes hard to move.
Razorfangs: Your bite or claw attack threatens a critical hit on a 19 or 20.
Scale Weakening: Subject’s natural armor weakens.
Snake’s Swiftness: Subject immediately makes one attack.
Sonic Weapon: Weapon touched deals +1d6 sonic damage with each hit.
Surefooted Stride: You can move over rubble as easily as you can over open ground.
Wings of Air: Subject’s flight maneuverability improves by one step.
Univ
Create Magic Tattoo: Subject receives a magic tattoo with various effects.
Hurl: Thrown weapon returns to thrower.
Rainbow Beam: Ray dazzles and deals 1d12 damage/3 levels of random type.

3RD-LEVEL

Abjur
Antidragon Aura: Allies gain bonus to AC and saves against dragons.
Avoid Planar Effects: Provides temporary protection against overtly damaging planar traits.
Chain Missile: Multiple missiles deal 1d4+1 damage each, then strike secondary targets.
Eradicate Earth: Deals 1d8 points of damage/level to earth creatures (max 10d8). Loses the [Earth] descriptor.
Mage Armor, Mass: As mage armor, but one creature/level.
Manyjaws: One set of jaws/level attacks enemies for 1d6 damage.
Reverse Arrows: As protection from arrows, but negated arrows turn back upon their source.
Spell Vulnerability: Reduce creature’s spell resistance by 1/caster level (max reduction 15).
Conj
Analyze Portal: Find a nearby portal and discover its properties.
Demon Dirge: Demons are stunned and take 3d6 damage/round for 1d4 rounds.
Devil Blight: Damage and stun baatezu; damage other lawful and evil creatures.
Regal Procession: As mount, but you summon several mounts.
Shadow Phase: Subject becomes partially incorporeal.
Spectral Weapon: Use quasi-real weapon to make touch attacks.
Vipergout: You spit forth celestial or fiendish vipers that attack your foes.
Div
Circle Dance: Indicates direction to known individual.
Telepathic Bond, Lesser: Link with subject within 30 ft. for 10 minutes/level.
Ench
Mesmerizing Glare: Your gaze fascinates creatures.
Miser’s Envy: Subject jealously covets nearby object.
Ray of Dizziness: Subject can take only move or standard actions.
Suppress Breath Weapon: Subject can’t use its breath weapon.
Evoc
Acid Breath: Cone of acid deals 1d6 damage/level (max 10d6).
Capricious Zephyr: Gale-force winds push creatures.
Earthen Grace: Subject takes only nonlethal damage from stone and earth.
Hailstones: Frigid globes deal 5d6 cold damage.
Icelance: Changes ice into lance, which attacks subject for 6d6 damage and stuns for 1d4 rounds.
Scintillating Sphere: 20-ft.-radius burst deals 1d6 electricity/level.
Illus
Blacklight: Create an area of total darkness.
Claws of Darkness: Claws deal 1d8 cold damage and have reach.
Cone of Dimness: Subjects believe they are engulfed in magical darkness.
Flashburst: Flash of light dazzles and blinds creatures in area.
Glowing Orb: Creates permanent magical light; you control brightness.
Great Thunderclap: Loud noise causes stunning, deafness, and knocks prone in a large area.
Light of Venya: You radiate pearly light, which you can expend as 2 bolts that deal 2d6 damage, 4d6 against undead and evil outsiders.
Resonating Bolt: Sonic energy deals 1d4 damage/ level (max 10d4).
Shadow Cache: You open a small portal to the Plane of Shadow through which you can put an item for later retrieval.
Shatterfloor: Deals 1d4 sonic/level plus damages floor surface.
Sonorous Hum: Removes need to concentrate to maintain next spell cast.
Sound Lance: Sonic energy deals 1d8/level damage.
Suspended Silence: Object becomes programmed to create an area of silence at your command.
Wall of Light: Creates wall of light, can dazzle creatures.
Necro
Blade of Pain and Fear: Creates blade of gnashing teeth.
Contagious Fog: 20-ft.-radius cloud of fog inflicts disease.
Curse of Impending Blades, Mass: Enemies take –2 penalty to AC.
Disrupt Undead, Greater: As disrupt undead, but 1d8 damage/level. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Healing Touch: Heal subject 1d6/2 levels, but take damage equal to half. Gains the [Life] descriptor.
Incorporeal Enhancement: Grant bonuses to incorporeal undead.
Junglerazer: Fey, vermin, plants, and animals take 1d10 damage/level.
Nauseating Breath: Exhale a cone of nauseating gas.
Skull Watch: Skull shrieks when creature enters warded area.
Spider Poison: Touch deals 1d6 Str damage, repeats in 1 minute.
Summon Undead III: Summons undead to fight for you.
Undead Lieutenant: Chosen undead can give orders to undead in your control.
Undead Torch: Undead creature gains blue aura that gives +2d6 damage against living creatures.
Trans
Air Breathing: Subjects can breathe air freely.
Amorphous Form: Subject becomes puddlelike and can slip through cracks quickly.
Bite of the Wererat: You gain the Dexterity and attacks of a wererat.
Deeper Darkvision: Subject can see 90 ft. in magical darkness.
Diamondsteel: Metal armor provides damage reduction.
Dolorous Blow: Weapon’s threat range is doubled and threats are automatically confirmed.
Dragonskin: You gain a bonus to natural armor plus energy resistance 10.
False Gravity: Travel on a solid surface as if that surface had its own gravity.
Giant’s Wrath: Pebbles you throw become boulders.
Girallon’s Blessing: Subject gains one additional pair of arms.
Hamatula Barbs: Subjects grow barbs, which damage foes that attack subject in melee.
Rust Ray: Metal objects take 2d6 damage +1/2 levels.
Snake’s Swiftness, Mass: Allies each immediately make one attack.
Spiderskin: Subject gains increasing bonus to natural armor, saves against poison, and Hide checks.
Steeldance: Blades hover around you and attack foes.
Tremorsense: Grants tremorsense to a range of 30 feet.
Weapon of Energy: Weapon deals extra energy damage.
Weapon of Impact: As keen edge, but aids bludgeoning weapons.
Univ
Rainbow Blast: Line deals 1d6 damage of each energy type.

4TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Backlash: Subject takes damage if it uses spells against another creature.
Dispelling Screen: Targeted dispel magic on any creatures and unattended items, +10 max on caster level check.
Floating Disk, Greater: As floating disk, but you can ride it.
Force Chest: 2-ft-cube chest made of force.
Force Claw: Claw of force guards an area, making opportunity attacks.
Force Missiles: Unerring missiles of force strike for 2d6 damage and explode in a burst.
Forceward: Creates a sphere of force that protects against force effects and keeps out incorporeal creatures.
Forcewave: Bull rushes all creatures within 10 ft.
Ray Deflection: Ray attacks are reflected away.
Ray of Deanimation: Ray deals 1d6 damage/level to constructs.
Resistance, Greater: Subject gains +3 on saving throws.
Resist Energy, Mass: Creatures ignore damage from specified energy type.
Vortex of Teeth: 3d8 points of damage due to force per round to all creatures in the area.
Wall of Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: Wall blocks creatures of opposite alignment.
Wingbind: A net of force entangles the subject, causing it to fall from the sky.
Conj
Bloodstar: Hovering construct does Con damage each time foe is damaged.
Ethereal Mount: You conjure swift mounts on the Ethereal Plane.
Fire Stride: Teleport from one fire to another. Loses the [Fire] descriptor.

Perinarch: Gain greater control over Limbo’s morphic essence.
Portal Alarm, Improved: Warded portal alerts you or a creature designated by you to creatures passing through it.
Scramble Portal: You randomize the destination of a magic portal.
Translocation Trick: You and subject switch places and appear as each other.
Div
Know Vulnerabilities: Determine subject’s vulnerabilities and resistances.
Ruin Delver’s Fortune: Cast on another creature’s turn and choose one of several benefits.
Treasure Scent: You detect valuable metals and gems.
Ench
Battle Hymn: Allies can reroll one Will save/round.
Rebuke, Greater: Subject cowers for 1d4 rounds.
Voice of the Dragon: +10 on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks; can use one suggestion.
Evoc
Blast of Flame: 60-ft. cone of fire (1d6/level damage).
Dragon Breath: You choose a dragon type and mimic its breath weapon.
Explosive Cascade: Bouncing flame ball deals 1d6/level fire damage.
Flame Whips: Your forelimbs deal 6d6 fire damage.
Stone Sphere: 3-ft.-diameter stone sphere rolls over your enemies.
Thunderlance: Lance of force deals 3d6 damage and might dispel force effects.
Wall of Sand: Swirling sand blocks ranged attacks, slows movement through.
Wall of Water: Creates shapeable transparent wall of water.
Illus
Sensory Deprivation: All of subject’s senses are blocked.
Shadow Well: Subject enters gloomy pocket plane and emerges frightened.
Necro
Rebuking Breath: Your breath weapon rebukes undead.
Summon Undead IV: Summons undead to fight for you.
Trans
Attune Form: Grant creature temporary protection against overtly damaging planar traits.
Bite of the Werewolf: You gain the Strength and attacks of a werewolf.
Blinding Breath: Your breath weapon blinds subjects.
Corporeal Instability: Transform a creature into an amorphous mass.
Darkvision, Mass: As darkvision, but affects one/level subjects.
Displacer Form: You change into displacer beast, gain some abilities.
Entangling Staff: Quarterstaff can grapple and constrict foes.
Flight of the Dragon: You grow dragon wings.
Metal Melt: Melts metal object without heat.
Raise from the Deep: Creature or sunken ship made buoyant.
Sharptooth: One of your natural weapons deals damage as if you were one size larger.
Wings of Air, Greater: Subject’s flight maneuverability improves by two steps.
Univ
Energy Spheres: Five colored spheres attack with or negate acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic energy.
Spell Enhancer: Lets you cast another spell in the same round at +2 caster level.

5TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Anticold Sphere: Sphere hedges out cold creatures and protects you from cold.
Contingent Energy Resistance: Energy damage triggers a resist energy spell.
Dispelling Breath: Your breath weapon acts as a targeted dispel magic to all creatures in its area.
Ironguard, Lesser: Subject becomes immune to nonmagical metal.
Indomitability: Subject can’t be reduced below 1 hp.
Shard Storm: Blast deals 3d6 damage to creatures in area.
Symbol of Spell Loss: Triggered rune absorbs spells yet to be cast.
Wall of Dispel Magic: Creatures passing through a transparent wall becomes subjects of targeted dispel magic.
Conj
Blink, Greater: Controlled blinking between the Material and Ethereal Planes grants defenses for 1 round/level.
Dimension Door, Greater: Short-range, multiple use dimension door.
Ethereal Breath: Your breath weapon manifests on the Ethereal Plane.
Planar Tolerance: Provides long-term protection against overtly damaging planar traits.
Zone of Respite: Prevents teleportation and similar effects from functioning in the area.
Ench
Stunning Breath: Your breath weapon also stuns creatures for 1 round.
Evoc
Acid Sheath: Sheath of acid damages those who attack you, enhances acid spells.
Ball Lightning: Energy ball deals 1d6/level electricity damage.
Cyclonic Blast: Deals 1d6 damage/level, knocks down creatures.
Earth Reaver: Eruption deals 7d6 damage to all in area.
Fire Shield, Mass: Creatures attacking allies take damage; allies are protected from fire or cold.
Firebrand: One 5-ft. burst/level deals 1d6 fire/level plus burning for 1 round.
Fireburst, Greater: Subjects within 15 ft. take 1d10/level fire damage.
Fly, Mass: One creature/level flies at speed of 60 ft. Gains the [Air] descriptor.
Moonbow: Three motes of electricity each deal 1d6/2 levels electricity damage to subjects.
Shroud of Flame: Subject bursts into flames, taking 2d6 fire damage/round.
Illus
Cacophonic Burst: Noise deals 1d6/level sonic damage to all within area.
Cacophonic Shield: Shield 10 ft. from you blocks sounds, deals 1d6 sonic damage +1/level, and deafens creatures passing through.
Illusory Feast: Subjects become dazed by illusory food.
Phantasmal Thief: Creates an unseen force that steals from others.
Shadow Form: Gain +4 on Hide, Move Silently, and Escape Artist checks, and concealment; you can move through obstacles if you have ranks in Escape Artist.
Shadow Hand: Medium hand blocks opponents or carries items.
Shadowfade: Opens a portal to the Plane of Shadow.
Sonic Rumble: Cone of sound deals damage.
Necro
Death Throes: Your body explodes when you die.
Graymantle: Inhibits creature’s ability to heal and regenerate for 1 round/level.
Miasma of Entropy: Rot all natural materials in 30-ft. cone-shaped burst.
Night’s Caress: Touched foe takes 1d6 points of damage/level plus 1d6+2 Con damage.
Summon Undead V: Summons undead to fight for you.
Wall of Limbs: Whirling limbs deal 5d6 damage and grab creatures passing through.
Trans
Bite of the Wereboar: You gain the Strength and attacks of a wereboar.
Breath Weapon Substitution: Your breath weapon deals a different kind of damage than normal.
Draconic Might: Gain +5 to Str, Con, Cha; +4 natural armor; immunity to magic sleep and paralysis effects.
Dragonsight: Gain low-light vision, darkvision, and blindsense.
Enlarge Person, Greater: Subject remains enlarged for 1 hour/level.
Gutsnake: 10-ft. tentacle grows from your stomach and attacks your enemies.
Lucent Lance: Ambient light forms lance, deals various damage.
Nightstalker’s Transformation: Gain +4 Dex, +3 luck bonus to AC, +5 luck bonus on Ref saves, +3d6 sneak attack, and evasion.
Reduce Person, Greater: Subject remains reduced for 10 minutes/level.
Surefooted Stride, Mass: As surefooted stride but multiple subjects.
Vulnerability: Reduces an opponent’s damage reduction.
Xorn Movement: Touched creature swims through earth like a xorn.
Univ
Spell Matrix, Lesser: Magical matrix stores a 3rd-level or lower spell to be cast later as quickened spell.

6TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Aura of Evasion: All within 10 ft. gain evasion against breath weapons.
Howling Chain: Chain of force trips and attacks opponents.
Ruby Ray of Reversal: Ray negates magical or mundane hazards.
Resistance, Superior: Subject gains +6 on saving throws.
Conj
Extract Water Elemental: Pulls water from victim, forms water elemental.
Fire Spiders: Swarm of Fine fire elementals deals fire damage in an area.
Gemjump: Teleport to the location of a specially prepared gem.
Make Manifest: You cause a creature on a coexistent plane to appear on your plane.
Seal Portal: Seal an interplanar portal or gate.
Subvert Planar Essence: Reduces subject’s damage reduction and spell resistance.
Transcribe Symbol: Safely moves an untriggered magical symbol to another location.
Tunnel Swallow: Tunnel’s peristaltic convulsions deal 1d6 points of damage/level (max 15d6).
Wall of Gears: Creates wall of moving gears that deals 1d6 damage/2 levels to creatures within 10 ft.
Div
Dream Casting: Alter subject’s dreams to produce desired effect.
Ench
Imperious Glare: You cause subjects to cower in fear.
Probe Thoughts: Read subject’s memories, one question/round.
Interplanar Telepathic Bond: Link lets allies communicate across planes.
Evoc
Acid Storm: Deals 1d6/level acid damage (max 15d6) in a 20-ft. radius.
Cloak of the Sea: Gain blur, freedom of movement, and water breathing while in water.
Fires of Purity: Subject bursts into magical flame, becoming a dangerous weapon.
Illus
Ray of Light: Ray blinds subject.
Shadowy Grappler: Illusory force grapples subject.
Necro
Aura of Terror: You gain an aura of fear, or your frightful presence becomes more effective.
Contagion, Mass: As contagion, but 20-ft. radius.
Fleshshiver: Subject is stunned for 1 round, takes 1d6/level damage, and is nauseated for 1d4+2 rounds.
Ghoul Gauntlet: Convert victim to a ghoul under your control.
Incorporeal Nova: Destroy incorporeal undead.
Opalescent Glare: Kill creatures with a look, or make them very afraid.
Ray of Entropy: Subject takes –4 Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution.
Revive Undead: Restores undeath to undead that was destroyed up to 1 day/level ago.
Trans
Freezing Fog: Fog slows creatures, obscures vision, hinders movement.
Bite of the Weretiger: You gain the Strength and attacks of a weretiger.
Brilliant Blade: Weapon or projectiles shed light, ignore armor.
Hardening: Increases object’s hardness by 1 point/2 levels.
Ooze Puppet: You telekinetically control an ooze.
Stone Body: Your body becomes living stone.

7TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Antimagic Ray: Subject loses all magical powers.
Dispelling Screen, Greater: Targeted dispel magic on any creatures and unattended items, +20 max on caster level check.
Hide from Dragons: Dragons can’t perceive one subject/2 levels.
Ironguard: Subject becomes immune to all metal.
Conj
Animate Breath: Your breath weapon becomes an elemental.
Ghost Trap: Incorporeal creatures turn corporeal.
Planar Bubble: Create bubble around creature that emulates its native planar environment.
Ench
Hiss of Sleep: You induce comatose slumber in subjects.
Rebuke, Final: As rebuke, except the subject must save or die.
Stun Ray: Subject stunned 1d4+1 rounds.
Symphonic Nightmare: Discordant noise haunts subject’s sleep.
Transfix: Humanoids freeze in place until condition you specify is met.
Evoc
Ice Claw: Claw of ice grapples and deals cold damage.
Submerge Ship: You control ship mentally while it travels underwater.
Illus
Radiant Assault: 1d6 damage/level, victims dazed or dazzled.
Solipsism: Subject believes it alone exists.
Necro
Avasculate: Reduce foe to half hp and stun.
Awaken Undead: Grant sentience to otherwise mindless undead.
Barghest’s Feast: Destroy corpse, potentially preventing its return to life.
Evil Glare: Paralyze creatures with your glare.
Kiss of the Vampire: You gain vampirelike supernatural abilities, but are vulnerable to attacks that harm undead.
Synostodweomer: Channel a spell into positive energy to cure 1d8/spell level.
Trans
Bite of the Werebear: You gain the Strength and attacks of a werebear.
Body of War: You change into warforged titan, gain some abilities.
Brilliant Aura: Allies’ weapons become brilliant energy, ignoring armor.
Elemental Body: You take on the qualities of a type of elemental.
Glass Strike: Turns subject into glass.
Stone Shape, Greater: Sculpts 10 cu. ft. + 10 cu. ft./level of stone into any shape.
Univ
Energy Transformation Field: Area absorbs magic energy to power a predetermined spell.
Prismatic Eye: Orb produces individual prismatic rays as touch attacks.
Spell Matrix: Stores up to two spells of 3rd level or lower to be released later.

8TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Wall of Greater Dispel Magic: Creatures passing through a transparent wall become subjects of targeted greater dispel magic.
Conj
Fierce Pride of the Beastlands: Summon celestial lions and celestial dire lions to follow your commands.
Ghostform: You assume incorporeal form and gain some incorporeal traits and bonuses.
Make Manifest, Mass: As make manifest but affecting all creatures in the area.
Plane Shift, Greater: Plane shift accurately to your desired destination.
Ench
Maddening Whispers: You induce confusion and madness in subjects.
Stunning Breath, Greater: Your breath weapon also stuns creatures for 2d4 rounds.
Wrathful Castigation: Subject dies or is dazed and –4 on saves for 1 round/level.
Evoc
Field of Icy Razors: Creatures in area take normal and cold damage, might be slowed.
Lightning Ring: Ring of lightning gives you resistance to electricity 20, damages adjacent creatures, and emits two lightning bolts per round.
Illus
Shifting Paths: Illusion hides path, creates false new path.
Necro
Avascular Mass: Reduce foe to half hp and stun, entangle in 20-ft. radius from victim.
Bestow Curse, Greater: As bestow curse, but more severe penalties.
Skeletal Guard: Create one skeleton/level with turn resistance.
Veil of Undeath: You gain undead traits.
Trans
Excavate: Creates a permanent passage in earth and walls.
Univ
Spell Engine: Wizard only. Swap out prepared spells for other spells in your spellbook.

9TH-LEVEL

Abjur
Effulgent Epuration: Creates one sphere/level to negate hostile magic.
Magic Miasma: Solid fog reduces caster level by –4.
Maw of Chaos: Chaotic energy dazes, deals damage, impedes concentration.
Unbinding: Frees everyone in range from spells that constrain or bind.
Conj
Abyssal Army: Summons demons to fight for you.
Black Blade of Disaster: Floating magic weapon disintegrates subjects.
Instant Refuge: Transport to a safe location of your choice.
Heavenly Host: Summons archons to fight for you.
Hellish Horde: Summons devils to fight for you.
Perinarch, Planar: Gain control over a small area of any divinely morphic plane.
Reality Maelstrom: Hole in reality sends creatures and objects to another plane.
Summon Elemental Monolith: Calls powerful elemental creature to fight for you.
Div
Eye of Power: As arcane eye, but you can cast spells of 3rd level or lower through it.
Hindsight: You see into the past.
Evoc
Obedient Avalanche: Snowy avalanche crushes and buries your foes.
Necro
Awaken ConstructX: Construct gains humanlike sentience.
Plague of Undead: Animates horde of undead.
Vile Death: Undead creature gains fiendish template.
Trans
Breath Weapon Admixture: Add a second kind of energy to your breath weapon.
Undermaster: You gain earth-related spell-like abilities.
Univ
Replicate Casting: Duplicate observed spell or spell-like ability.
Spell Matrix, GreaterF: Stores up to three spells of 3rd level or lower to be released later.

Removed Spells:

Caltrops: Creates caltrops in 5-ft.-by-5-ft. square, +5-ft. square/2 levels beyond 1st (max 5). (Buy some damn caltrops, you lazy sloth)
Instant Locksmith: Make Disable Device or Open Lock check at +2 as free action.
Instant Search: Make Search check at +2 as free action.
Golem Strike: You can sneak attack constructs for 1 round.
Master’s Touch: You gain proficiency in a weapon or shield touched for 1 minute/level.
Spontaneous Search: Instantly Search area as if having taken 10.
Spirit Worm: Subject takes 1 point Con damage every round for 1 round/level.
Nerveskitter: Subject gains +5 bonus on initiative checks.
Ray of Clumsiness: Victim takes 1d6 Dexterity penalty +1/2 levels.
Ray of Stupidity: Victim takes 1d4+1 Intelligence damage.
Phantasmal Assailants: Nightmare creatures strike subject for 8 Wis damage, 8 Dex damage.
Heroics: Fighter gains one fighter bonus feat.
Quick Potion: Creates a potion that must be used within 1 hour/level.
Mind Poison: Your poisonous touch deals Wis damage.
Primal Form: You change into elemental, gain some abilities.
Call Zelekhut: A zelekhut performs one duty for you.
Dragon Ally, Lesser: Exchange services with a 9 HD dragon.
Hidden Lodge: Creates sturdy cottage camouflaged to blend into natural surroundings.
Viscid Glob: Ranged touch attack hurls 5-ft.-diameter glob of glue at subject.
Draconic Polymorph: As polymorph, but improved.
Spectral Touch: Your touch bestows one negative level/round.
Dragon Ally: As lesser dragon ally, but up to 15 HD.
Energy Ebb: Give subject one negative level/round for 1 round/level.
Call Marut: A marut performs one duty for you.
Dragon Ally, Greater: As lesser dragon ally, but up to 21 HD.
Enervating Breath: Your breath weapon also bestows 2d4 negative levels.



So much....I don't know how you do it!



Analysis:

Abjuration got slightly better, especially at that one level where it got SO MANY force spells. I still recommend getting rid of the prismatic line. Not too broken, but certainly a very varied school.

Perhaps we can thin out some of these Force spells. I don't think they sincerely need ALL of them.


Conjuration did not gain much. It gained somewhat more at higher levels but it's still a very focused, very niche school. This needs remedying.

What I feared. Ironically the two strongest schools would need the most tweaking in order to fix them.


Divination gained a lot of lower level spells, many of which do very varied things. This may well be exactly what we were looking for. I recommend going over them and seeing if it really needs more homebrewing, because I do believe it might be almost as big as the big three by now.

I'll look it over to see if any of these spells can be cut/can be modified if need be. I also found this interesting list of Time related spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166492). By tweaking these, hopefully it can create enough of a Chronomancer feel to Divination.


Enchantment got a few goodies to round it out, but it's still cripplingly dependant on mind-affecting effects. If that stops being a problem, it's a very good, very well rounded school (in fact, I'd go as far as to say it may lack variety but makes up for it in raw power. Whatever few spells it has are almost TOO good. I still recommend moving several of them up a couple of levels and introducing less powerful alternatives).

This is definitely good actually. We can solve this problem by fixing the immunity instead of the spells. The spells themselves would then need less tinkering and homebrewing.


Evocation got a few more spells, but FAR less than I feared. One could move a few self-buffs from Transmutation to Evocation if one desires, but I did not think it was too necessary.

Probably not since Transmutation is already so low.


Illusion did not get as many spells as I expected. There's a level where it gets a lot of goodies, but a lot of levels where it barely gets a spell. I am not overly worried.

We can probably oversee to make sure not any one level is too inflated so each level is about equivalent.


Necromancy got a few good spells, but it still needs those pesky positive energy divine spells to be fully rounded. Also, there's a very annoying tendency to paint Necromancy as the "dark and edgy" school. I mean, look at Synostodweomer. It turns spells into positive energy... and it was in Transmutation. Just... ugh. It won't give the school a bad rap to have a few healing spells, WotC.

We all saw this coming ShadowKnight. Let not the anger control you.

But yeah if WOTC had done this right, we wouldn't be here now would we?



Transmutation. Oh boy. Spell Compendium simultaneously improved and worsened the problem we had. I can no longer say that Transmutation does not have enough spells, because it clearly does. But they're mostly lower level. Now, the only question that remains is "can those spells make the transmuter viable at higher levels?" if yes, problem solved. If not, we have work to do.

Again I just wanted to repeat my suggestion. We can actually strengthen those spells and place them at the higher level. Or even make progressions if necessary. Seems like an intuitive thing to do.

[Heliomance]

To be honest, Illusion is fine as is. I'm playing an illusionist in a game at the moment. Aside from cantrips, she knows exactly two non-Illusion spells, Identify and Nerveskitter. I'll probably pick up Celerity at some point as well. Aside from that I have no plans to ever learn any non-Illusion spells. It's working fine so far.

[JKTrickster]

That definitely confirms what we found out so far. We only added the [Light], [Darkness], and [Sonic] spells to make sure Evocation didn't get too out of hand and so Illusion players can be a little more varied.

We'll have to come up something for True Seeing soon but I'll do that after I compile the list.

[Snowbluff]

Speaking of illusions... Should simulacrum really be illusion? Mkaes more sense to me as a Transmutation to me...

[JKTrickster]

Isn't Simulacrum really broken? Should we just take that out?

[Snowbluff]

Isn't Simulacrum really broken? Should we just take that out?

Oh it is. If we don't I think it need a reclass. If we take it out we also should remove Ice Assassin.

[Shadowknight12]

Wow okay :smallbiggrin:

This is amazing stuff.

Thanks! It was hard, but worth it.


I am not sure if I understand. You are implying that no one would willingly choose that class feature?

No, I'm saying that healing spells would remain exactly as they are now, and players would only use that class feature occasionally to get the best rider effects because healing remains more effective out of combat. After all, if it's optional, you're not wasting anything by casting Vigour outside combat. If the rider is NOT optional, casting Vigour outside combat is a waste, and that's exactly what I'm going for.

A good class feature would be something like "Adds +Cha X spell level to amount healed" or "improves rider effect" or "lets healing spells be cast without provoking AoOs" and the like.


I was saying that as a class feature, necromancers that cast these spells in combat would gain the rider effect. What's not optional about this :smallconfused:

The problem is that it IS optional. We don't want it to be optional or else the system remains exactly as it is now.


Right. So we agree right :smallconfused:

Uh, maybe? I don't really know.


That seems the LEAST I could do. I can tackle Complete Divine and the Divine version of SpC if necessary. I mean you've already looked over so much!

Well, I want to tackle Divine!spells for core first and see what happens to necromancy afterwards. But yeah, I'd appreciate you making the compilation.


That seems awkward though. You rarely see spellcasters relying on "low level spells" at level 20 instead of level 9s. Perhaps we can just tweak them and make them stronger and put them at a higher level?

Well, some of them might get bumped without tweaking, like all the Save or Dies (like Flesh to Stone), or some of the more powerful shapeshifting. The main problem is the dreaded level 9.

So far, schools have these progressions:

Abjuration remains solid throughout the levels and gains VERY good spells at level 9, if we include splats. If we don't, it's somewhat lackluster at that level.
Conjuration suffers through the low levels and gets all the goodies near the end.
Divination is practically like Conjuration, only coming to full bloom at level 9 with Time Stop. If splats are added, it becomes another Abjuration.
Enchantment gets powerful spells at low levels, gets a bit weak at mid levels and then comes into a windfall at levels 8 and 9. Splats don't really affect this much.
Evocation gets decent spells at low levels, blooms at mid levels and then withers at high levels, but remains frankly potent even without decent level 9's.
Illusion gets awesome spells at all levels, from 0 to 9.
Necromancy starts out fairly weak but experiences a sudden growth spurt at mid levels and then comes into full bloom at levels 7 and 8. Level 9 is a bit disappointing, but still very useful.
Transmutation blooms the earliest, outnumbering all schools betweens levels 1 and 3 (with or without splats), but then begins to wither at mid levels and dies an ignominious death at high levels.


This is definitely a valid issue......it seems like a general "Magic Bolt" spell must be homebrewed. Otherwise, it does not seem plausible for the spellcasters to be truly viable.

What do you think about having the spells be in multiple schools?

I think it should be done symmetrically. A few schools (Transmutation, Evocation and Conjuration) can be easily justified to be a part of almost every spell, so a lot of caution should be exercised. So what I propose is to make sure all dual-school spells are symmetrical and no school gets more than the others (unless it's done on purpose, such as Transmutation at high levels and Conjuration at low levels).


It probably is...wouldn't want every team to have to bring an Abjurer for those 3 spells.

All right, please move those three spells to Universal when you make the compilations, then! Thanks!


So much....I don't know how you do it!

Lots and lots and lots of coffee. :smallamused:


Perhaps we can thin out some of these Force spells. I don't think they sincerely need ALL of them.

The problem is that you have to be consistent with the material. It's fine to remove the overpowered stuff, but discarding spells just because they're too many is poor design. I'm not saying that we should let schools get too bloated, but I'm saying that it's not something you can fix by just removing spells indiscriminately. Every spell you remove from the list must be done for a good reason.


What I feared. Ironically the two strongest schools would need the most tweaking in order to fix them.

It was, in a way, inevitable.


I'll look it over to see if any of these spells can be cut/can be modified if need be. I also found this interesting list of Time related spells (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166492). By tweaking these, hopefully it can create enough of a Chronomancer feel to Divination.

Yeah, I already had to deal with most of those spells (and I moved the ones that made the most sense to Divination precisely to keep the Chronomancy feel), though I removed a lot of those spells since they were frankly unbalanced (like the ones that let you emulate a rogue, Nerveskitter or Celerity. Yes, I know Celerity is great for a Chronomancer, but that spell is broken. Very, very, very broken).


This is definitely good actually. We can solve this problem by fixing the immunity instead of the spells. The spells themselves would then need less tinkering and homebrewing.

Yeah, probably. Also, speaking of which, I have to do that write up on how to fix undead minionmancy. Tomorrow.


Probably not since Transmutation is already so low.

Evocation loses its lustre at high levels too, you know.


We can probably oversee to make sure not any one level is too inflated so each level is about equivalent.

That varies a lot depending on which splats are allowed, but what we can do is make a final recommendation (like "Please consider allowing SpC if your PC is playing a Transmuter" or "A PC playing an Illusionist or Enchanter is probably fine with core only") and make a final closing word about splats and school balance, to avoid having to balance each and every book.


We all saw this coming ShadowKnight. Let not the anger control you.

But yeah if WOTC had done this right, we wouldn't be here now would we?

But it's just! Argh! WotC, why do you make me want to slap you? :smallfrown:

Sigh, you're right though.


Again I just wanted to repeat my suggestion. We can actually strengthen those spells and place them at the higher level. Or even make progressions if necessary. Seems like an intuitive thing to do.

Good idea. I suggest leaving those two schools for the end and focus on rounding up Enchantment, Necromancy and Divination for now. I like having things neat and finished before getting too deep into how things work.

I'll start with Necromancy presently, doing the undead minionmancy write up and importing positive energy spells. Do you want to review Divination and see how it holds up against Abjuration, Evocation and Illusion? Review all the spell lists I compiled and do a "core only" vs. "splats allowed" comparison for Divination versus the others. Stuff you should keep in mind is # of spells per level, diversity of effects, specificity of spells, options for combat and general versatility (both in and out of combat). You don't have to be too verbose, though, just look up the spells and see what a Diviner can do, then compare it to what an Abjurer, Evoker and Illusionist of the same level can do. Do you think you're up for it? :smallsmile:

What did we decide for the prismatic line, btw?


How appropriate would it be to start converting some Divine spells (from Druid, Cleric, etc.) to beef up Transmutation or Necromancy?

For Transmutation, that could be a good idea at higher levels (but like I suggested before, let's leave that for last). For Necromancy, I intend to do just that.


Oh it is. If we don't I think it need a reclass. If we take it out we also should remove Ice Assassin.

I can't believe I missed that.

Please, JKT, do move Simulacrum and Ice Assassin to the Removed Spells section when you compile the lists. Thank you.

[XionUnborn01]

Amazing work guys! I can only imagine the caffeine consumption and headaches this has caused!

I had an idea for the Abjuration/Dispel Magic talk; What if the Abjurer just got the Dispels at a lower level than everyone else? That shows that it's easier for the Abjurer to say no to the magic, while the others require a little more work.

[Mystify]

Amazing work guys! I can only imagine the caffeine consumption and headaches this has caused!

I had an idea for the Abjuration/Dispel Magic talk; What if the Abjurer just got the Dispels at a lower level than everyone else? That shows that it's easier for the Abjurer to say no to the magic, while the others require a little more work.
Thats only really an advantage for the levels before everyone else gets it. Even greater dispel magic does not reinstate the advantage, since all it does is allow a higher cap. Sure, it would make it easier for metamagic(the normal advantage of getting the spell earlier that persists), but people don't generally metamagic dispel magic.

[Zeful]

Amazing work guys! I can only imagine the caffeine consumption and headaches this has caused!

I had an idea for the Abjuration/Dispel Magic talk; What if the Abjurer just got the Dispels at a lower level than everyone else? That shows that it's easier for the Abjurer to say no to the magic, while the others require a little more work.

Doesn't do much.

If one is creating a more restrictive set of schools for magic you have to add as few "exceptions" as possible, so if a spell line fits with one school, it goes there and nowhere else. After all what's the point of the new schools if you're just going to take spells that "every wizard should know" rather than actually stick to the new definitions?

In order to prevent this from being hilariously restrictive and "stupid", toss in some options for specialist wizards to pick up spells from other schools (either through a feat, or class features), but have them be very limited. Leave out restrictions for single use items, like scrolls and wands, but make it harder for casters not specialized in that school to use them (e.g. "if the spell is not on your specialization school's list you receive a -X penalty to your effective caster level when using use-activated items of schools other than the selected specialization, if this penalty would bring your effective caster level lower than the minimum level to cast the spell, you may not activate the item"). After that, leave it up to the player themselves to plan around these issues, because if there are choices available to the player (choices in this instance being defined as options that are incomparable, there being no mathematical "solution" for which is better) it comes down to a player not using that option and having consequences that come from such an action.

[Shadowknight12]

Amazing work guys! I can only imagine the caffeine consumption and headaches this has caused!

I had an idea for the Abjuration/Dispel Magic talk; What if the Abjurer just got the Dispels at a lower level than everyone else? That shows that it's easier for the Abjurer to say no to the magic, while the others require a little more work.

Thanks! :smallbiggrin:

Well, the only problem is that stuff in the Universal school is available to everyone, so Abjurers would get the same spell at two different levels. It's not hugely inconvenient, as that can happen with Clerics who pick a domain where one of the spells in their regular list comes at a lower level, but it's a bit inelegant nonetheless. It's still a tempting suggestion and I think it does have quite a bit of merit. Another idea would be to give Abjurers a class feature that gives them a bonus on dispel checks, thereby making them simultaneously better at dispelling and resisting dispels.


Thats only really an advantage for the levels before everyone else gets it. Even greater dispel magic does not reinstate the advantage, since all it does is allow a higher cap. Sure, it would make it easier for metamagic(the normal advantage of getting the spell earlier that persists), but people don't generally metamagic dispel magic.

Twinned, Explosive and Chained (along with Snowcasting, Flash Frost and Fell Drain, of course) beg to differ, but your point still stands, of course.


Doesn't do much.

If one is creating a more restrictive set of schools for magic you have to add as few "exceptions" as possible, so if a spell line fits with one school, it goes there and nowhere else. After all what's the point of the new schools if you're just going to take spells that "every wizard should know" rather than actually stick to the new definitions?

A possible exception is to make Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic as dual schools. They're Universal/Abjuration. Since they're Universal, they appear on everyone's spell lists, but since they're also Abjuration, they're affected by everything that affects Abjuration spells (such as an abjurer's class features).


In order to prevent this from being hilariously restrictive and "stupid", toss in some options for specialist wizards to pick up spells from other schools (either through a feat, or class features), but have them be very limited. Leave out restrictions for single use items, like scrolls and wands, but make it harder for casters not specialized in that school to use them (e.g. "if the spell is not on your specialization school's list you receive a -X penalty to your effective caster level when using use-activated items of schools other than the selected specialization, if this penalty would bring your effective caster level lower than the minimum level to cast the spell, you may not activate the item"). After that, leave it up to the player themselves to plan around these issues, because if there are choices available to the player (choices in this instance being defined as options that are incomparable, there being no mathematical "solution" for which is better) it comes down to a player not using that option and having consequences that come from such an action.

My personal recommendation is to leave scrolls, wands and the like firmly outside any potential exception. It defeats the entire purpose of segregating spells if anyone can spend a few feats to be a pseudo-generalist thanks to magic items.

Other than that, the idea is good, you can use a feat to emulate an Expanded Knowledge-like mechanic that lets a caster pick up a single spell from outside their spell list at a penalty.

------

All right, let's get this Necromancy started.

First, the spells.

Core:

Level 0
Cure Minor Wounds
Inflict Minor Wounds
Level 1
Cure Light Wounds
Deathwatch
Inflict Light Wounds
Level 2
Consecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Desecrate
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Remove Paralysis
Restoration, Lesser
Level 3
Cure Serious Wounds
Inflict Serious Wounds
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Disease
Speak With Dead
Level 4
Cure Critical Wounds
Inflict Critical Wounds
Death Ward
Poison
Neutralize Poison
Restoration
Level 5
Cure Light Wounds, Mass
Hallow
Inflict Light Wounds, Mass
Raise Dead
Slay Living
Unhallow
Level 6
Cure Moderate Wounds, Mass
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Mass
Harm
Heal
Level 7
Cure Serious Wounds, Mass
Destruction
Inflict Serious Wounds, Mass
Regenerate
Restoration, Greater
Resurrection
Level 8
Cure Critical Wounds, Mass
Inflict Critical Wounds, Mass
Level 9
Harm, Mass
Heal, Mass
True Resurrection

Spell Compendium:

Level 1
Delay Disease
Faith Healing
Healthful Rest
Vigor, Lesser
Level 2
Close Wounds
Healing Lorecall
Healing Sting
Living Undeath
Protection from Negative Energy
Protection from Positive Energy
Reveille
Stabilise
Level 3
Ghost Touch Weapon
Rejuvenative Corpse
Slashing Darkness
Spark of Life
Vigor
Vigor, Mass Lesser
Level 4
Life Ward
Negative Energy Aura
Panacea
Positive Energy Aura
Sheltered Vitality
Revenance
Vigor, Greater
Level 5
Life's Grace
Revivify
Level 6
Revive Outsider
Vigorous Circle
Level 7
Fortunate Fate
Renewal Pact
Restoration, Mass
Level 8
Death Pact
Death Ward, Mass
General of Undeath
Level 9
Undeath's Eternal Foe

Removed Spells:

CONSUMPTIVE FIELD.
GREATER CONSUMPTIVE FIELD.
Bolt of Glory.

I didn't list the spells from Complete Divine because they were already in Spell Compendium and the least amount of lists we have around, the better.

Also, it goes without saying that all spells above lose any alignment descriptors unless the DM wishes to add them back.

Some ideas for the rider effects:

Cure Wounds line: Target deals an extra 1d6 positive energy damage per spell level with every attack.
Inflict Wounds line: Target deals an extra 1d6 negative energy damage per spell level with every attack.
Vigor line: Target gains a sacred/profane bonus equal to the fast healing to AC or attack, caster's choice.
Restoration line: Target acquires a pool of points equal to five times the spell's level. If the target would be ability damaged or drained, the pool loses that many points instead. If the target would be energy drained, the target loses that many points times five instead.
Remove/Delay/Neutralise line: Target acquires a pool of points equal to twice the spell's level. If the target would be affected by a spell or SLA that would inflict a condition the spell can heal (and the target fails the saving throw), the pool loses points equal to the spell level that inflicted the condition to prevent it.
Heal/Harm line: Target acquires a pool of points equal to the spell's level. If the target would be affected by a spell or SLA that would inflict a condition the spell can heal (and the target fails the saving throw), the pool loses points equal to the spell level that inflicted the condition to prevent it.
Stabilise: Target regains temporary consciousness.
Faith Healing: Target gains a sacred/profane bonus equal to twice the spell's level to AC or attack, caster's choice.
Panacea: Target acquires a pool of points equal to three times the spell's level. If the target would be affected by a spell or SLA that would inflict a condition the spell can heal (and the target fails the saving throw), the pool loses points equal to the spell level that inflicted the condition to prevent it.
Close Wounds: Target gains DR/Magic and Silver equal to the spell's level.
Positive Energy Aura: Whenever the caster casts a [Life] spell, the aura's healing/damage doubles.
Negative Energy Aura: Whenever the caster casts a [Death] spell, the aura's healing/damage doubles.

Unless otherwise specified, all riders last (or are available) for a number of rounds equal to the spell's level (which means that a Positive/Negative Energy Aura can only have its healing/damage doubled for the first four rounds, for example).

Some modifications to the Consecrate/Hallow/Unhallow/Desecrate tetrad:


In addition to losing the alignment descriptor, they also allow the caster to decide which Magic Circle to emulate.
Any effects that relate to altars, holiness or unholiness are not present in the arcane version of the spell.
Humanoids buried within the area of an Unhallow spell have a 1% chance of arising as intelligent, free-willed undead (specific type of undead at DM's discretion) of the same CR as they were in life. Creatures unwilling to return to (un)life get a Will save to resist the effect. The DC is calculated normally for a 5th level spell.


------

All right, now it's time to propose a rebalancing fix for undead minionmancy.

Let's get the underlying philosophy out of the way:

An intelligent, sentient living creature (Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, Fey, Magical Beasts, Giants, most Dragons, some Plants and some Aberrations) is made up of five parts. The Body, the Echo (or the Shadow), the Mind, the Soul and the Anima.

All creatures that possess a Strength score possess a Body.

All creatures that possess an Intelligence score possess a Mind.

All creatures that possess a Wisdom and a Charisma score possess both an Echo (or Shadow) and an Anima.

A creature must possess simultaneously an Intelligence, a Wisdom and a Charisma score in order to possess a Soul, but a creature that possesses all three mental scores does not necessarily possess a Soul.

Undead creatures can possess all five parts of the self, but not all do.

The Body is what allows the creature to interact physically with the world. Without a Body, a creature has no sense of taste or touch.

The Echo (or Shadow) is the psychological imprint of everything the creature has experienced in its life. It is what spells such as Reveille and Speak With Dead tap into. It remains along the Body until it turns to dust, whereupon it becomes a part of the Body's surroundings or haunts areas of great importance to the creature.

The Mind is the seat of the creature's logical reasoning and its ability to learn. It is also the seat of emotions, memories, learned skills, knowledge and mental acuity. Usually the Mind remains attached to the Soul even after death, but there are occasions where they might be separated.

The Soul is the creature's essence, a distillation of its personality and the sum of its life experiences. The soul is what possesses the creature's moral compass, conscience, and is the way through which it becomes attached to other creatures and the world. Which creatures have Souls varies from campaign setting to campaign setting.

The Anima is the force that animates the Body and is responsible for the creature's ability to move out of its own volition (even while under another creature's control), cast spells, use class features/skills/feats/SLAs/Ex and Su abilities/etc (in short, the ability to take actions). The Anima uses energy as a fuel to perform actions. This energy can take many forms, but the most common are Positive and Negative. Outsiders and Elementals are sustained by Planar and Elemental energies, respectively, while Constructs are sustained by the magic that animates them.

Examples:

Corpse: Body + Echo.
Zombie: Anima + Body + Echo.
Wraith: Anima + Mind + Soul.
Wight: Anima + Body + Echo + Mind + Soul.
Assassin Vine: Body + Echo + Anima.
Ghost Brute Assassin Vine: Anima.
Soul Trapped by a Soul Bind spell: Soul.
Soul Trapped by a Trap the Soul spell: Mind + Soul + Body.
Soul freshly arrived in the afterlife: Mind + Soul.
Construct: Anima + Body + Echo.
Victim of a Brain Lock psionic power: Anima + Body + Echo + Soul.

This handily explains why a creature can be killed, then Soul Bound, and then its corpse can be reanimated as a zombie (but never an intelligent undead). This also explains why Soul Bind foils resurrection, since the resurrecting spell would lack one of the five parts that make up a living, intelligent creature. It also explains why you can't make a Wraith and a Zombie out of the same corpse, since the Anima can only sustain one of the two (but you can question the corpse of an incorporeal undead with Speak With Dead, however). Furthermore, it explains why you cannot use Speak With Dead on a Zombie, since the Echo is part of a creature now, so it's no longer a valid target for the spell.

Optional Rule:

If the DM so wills it, a sixth component might be added to the five above, the Spark. The Spark would be the seat of creativity, change, growth, improvement, motivation, drive, life and whatever else the DM sees fit to include here. When a living creature dies, the Spark is snuffed out. Turning the creature undead does not rekindle the Spark, hence why undead are static and unchanging. Only a powerful spell such as Raise Dead or the like can rekindle a snuffed Spark.

This optional rule doesn't really interact with mechanics that much, it's more of a flavour option for DMs so inclined. At the DM's discretion, other creature types (such as Constructs, Outsiders, Elementals and the like) may also lack a Spark despite having a Mind and Soul.

General Rules:

Undead creatures under anyone's control (whether a spellcaster, rebuking cleric or the undead creature that spawned them) lose the ability to create spawn. Only free-willed creatures can create spawn. If an undead creature is freed, thereby gaining the ability to create spawn, and then is placed under someone's command, they immediately lose their ability to create spawn.

An undead creature who is created or animated by a spell or by another undead creature's ability to create spawn receives a pool of Stygian Points equal to their HD. The creature loses this pool when it becomes free, but regains it if it falls under someone's control again.

An undead creature's SP pool diminishes every day at the stroke of midnight by an amount equal to the creature's CR (creatures with fractional CR do not lose fractions of a SP. Instead, they do not lose SP until the SP fractions add up to 1. For example, an undead creature with a CR of 1/3 would lose 1 SP every 3 days, an undead creature with a CR of 1/2 would lose 1 SP every two days and so on). If the creature has spent at least 24 consecutive hours within the area of a Desecrate spell, the amount of SP lost is reduced by 2 (to a minimum of 0). If the creature has spent at least 24 consecutive hours within the area of an Unhallow spell, the amount of SP lost is reduced by 5 (to a minimum of 0).

An undead creature who possesses an attack that deals ability damage must pay 1 SP for every dice of damage the attack inflicts every time it attacks. If the creature deals ability drain, it must pay 2 SP per dice instead. If the creature deals energy drain, it must pay 5 SP per negative level it inflicts. The SP are spent regardless of whether the attack hits or not, and whether the damage/drain is inflicted or not. If the creature has the option to attack without dealing ability/energy drain/damage, it may do so to avoid paying Stygian Points.

A mindless undead creature whose Stygian Points pool is reduced to 0 is immediately destroyed. An intelligent undead creature whose Stygian Points pool is reduced to 0 points is immediately freed. At that point, it may choose to relinquish its grip on the Material Plane and return to the afterlife. If it chooses to do so, it is, for all intents and purposes, immediately destroyed.

Rebuking an undead creature gives it 1 SP per use of the Rebuke Undead ability. Some spells may recharge a creature's SP pool. As a general rule, they provide the undead creature a number of SP equal to twice the spell's level.

Stealing an undead creature's control from another creature or spellcaster maintains the SP pool as it was. If the method to gain control of it would increase the creature's SP pool, it increases by the appropriate amount.

Successfully turning an undead creature makes it lose 1 SP from its pool. An undead creature who would be destroyed by a turning check gains a Will save (DC equals the turning check). If it succeeds, it is merely turned. If it fails, its SP pool is reduced to 0 and must make a Fortitude save (DC equals turning check) or be immediately destroyed.

All right, that should be all. Critique is more than welcome.

[Zeful]

A possible exception is to make Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic as dual schools. They're Universal/Abjuration. Since they're Universal, they appear on everyone's spell lists, but since they're also Abjuration, they're affected by everything that affects Abjuration spells (such as an abjurer's class features).Having looked up the definition of Abjure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abjure): Dispel magic, conceptually, is the definition of abjure. Putting the most definitive example of a school of magic in the universal school kinda misses the point I feel of redefining the schools of magic. It would be like Fireball or Shapechange as a universal spell. You could certainly justify the decision, but they are iconic examples of the school that made the definitions worthwhile. If you're going to do this, go all the way and make the player have a meaningful choice to make.


My personal recommendation is to leave scrolls, wands and the like firmly outside any potential exception. It defeats the entire purpose of segregating spells if anyone can spend a few feats to be a pseudo-generalist thanks to magic items.

Other than that, the idea is good, you can use a feat to emulate an Expanded Knowledge-like mechanic that lets a caster pick up a single spell from outside their spell list at a penalty.
If a caster isn't allowed to use wands/scrolls outside of his school of magic, every school's versatility has to go up or you can't restrict a caster to just one school. This is a very important thing to consider when doing a content patch of this scale.

[Mystify]

If a caster isn't allowed to use wands/scrolls outside of his school of magic, every school's versatility has to go up or you can't restrict a caster to just one school. This is a very important thing to consider when doing a content patch of this scale.
Does it? Does it really? Are you looking at it from the standards of a lower tier class, or from what you expect from casters?

[Zeful]

Does it? Does it really? Are you looking at it from the standards of a lower tier class, or from what you expect from casters?

Yes. I'm looking at it from a total game design perspective. The total number of options available should impact the number of options a player has access to. Otherwise you have people falling over each other trying to fill in gaps. It's a very prominent design reason why non-casters tend to suck, a small number of options out of a large pool. Casters get a lot more.

Think Pokemon. Yeah, you can do pretty good in some games just running around with one pokemon, but you will need more than one eventually; one pokemon puts you at a disadvantage. Most people tend to getting a few pokemon, so that they can cover more bases, but as you get more pokemon, levels slow, and you have to make better use of your four moves a pokemon, leading to a natural trend towards trying to cover as many bases as possible.

When limitations become too restrictive, players will do everything they can to invalidate them. This is a balancing act.

[Mystify]

Yes. I'm looking at it from a total game design perspective. The total number of options available should impact the number of options a player has access to. Otherwise you have people falling over each other trying to fill in gaps. It's a very prominent design reason why non-casters tend to suck, a small number of options out of a large pool. Casters get a lot more.

Think Pokemon. Yeah, you can do pretty good in some games just running around with one pokemon, but you will need more than one eventually; one pokemon puts you at a disadvantage. Most people tend to getting a few pokemon, so that they can cover more bases, but as you get more pokemon, levels slow, and you have to make better use of your four moves a pokemon, leading to a natural trend towards trying to cover as many bases as possible.

When limitations become too restrictive, players will do everything they can to invalidate them. This is a balancing act.
2 things:
1.Is a single school really that limiting that it is problematic? Esp. Since a large part of this effort is to redefine those schools to be functional on their own. If designed several themed sorcerers, only taking rays, or transmutation spells, etc. They tend to end up as perfectly functional characters in a non-caster group. Even within a single school, you can get a nice bit of versatility. And that is with a sorcers meager pool of spells known. You open it up like a beguiler or warmage, and you end up with a perfectly functional amount of versatility. The problem only comes in if you run into something that is immune to everthing you can do, which is why enchantment needs some rethinking to get past the "everything is mind affecting" aspect.
But really, saying that a single school of magic is too limiting is really only a problem from the perspective of tier 1 or tier 2 casters. It is perfectly in line with tier 3 classes; granted, they do have spells from multiple schools, but that is because the spells are thematically spread out, which this is an attempt to rectify.

2. Bad example with pokemon. a single pokemon will get you through the entire game much faster without any problems. I can literally beat the entire game in one sitting with a single pokemon. I had to, my game broke and wouldn't remember the save. With a team, you end up with appropriately leveled things, with one pokemon, after some initial hurdles, you are cruising around 20 levels above everything, casually one-shotting them, even across elemental weaknesses. The only thing you need other pokemon for is HMs.

[JKTrickster]

Yes in order to make each school viable, they do have to be scaled up. But I don't think it's impossible. Take the Dread Necromancer, Beguiler, and even the Warmage (which is Tier 4, but it isn't like Tier 4 are unplayable). All of these are quite fun to play and generally considered to sit around the balancing point of classes.

All I am doing is revising their spell list (because they should all cast spells only from one school) and adding more flavorful abilities. I don't think it's as extreme as you think.

Anyway sorry for the lack of updates. Been behind on schoolwork so I couldn't compile the spell lists yet. Getting to that soon.

[Shadowknight12]

Having looked up the definition of Abjure (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abjure): Dispel magic, conceptually, is the definition of abjure. Putting the most definitive example of a school of magic in the universal school kinda misses the point I feel of redefining the schools of magic. It would be like Fireball or Shapechange as a universal spell. You could certainly justify the decision, but they are iconic examples of the school that made the definitions worthwhile. If you're going to do this, go all the way and make the player have a meaningful choice to make.

I completely agree (and this comes from someone who likes abjuration so much he uses the word 'abjure' on everyday conversation), but the thing is, Shapechange and Fireball are not unique. Fireball is just damage (although fire-flavoured) and Shapechange is a host of buffs that can be replicate by other spells. Dispel Magic has no equivalent, because its role is to end other spells. That's very, very hard to replace. The only ones that come close are the Remove/Neutralise line, which are highly specific, Break Enchantment, which is Dispel Magic on steroids, and Disjunction, which is Greater Dispel Magic on ALL OF THE STEROIDS. Not to mention the fact that Dispel Magic is the bread and butter of anyone who wants to try the seldom used but effective tactic of counterspelling.

I was going to propose the creation of a new spell that was basically Dispel Magic Lite, but then I realised that I could find at least ONE crucial effect in every school that other schools did not have (Time Stop and Detection/Scrying for Divination, Restoration/Resurrection/Death effects/Undead shenanigans for Necromancy, Illusions for Illusion, Teleportation for Conjuration, mind-affecting effects for Enchantment, and BFC of different kinds for both Transmutation and Evocation), so it's fair to keep Dispel Magic and the like firmly within Abjuration. After all, you MUST get a cleric (or a white necro) to resurrect someone, so why not getting an Abjurer to break an enchantment or disjunction something?


Anyway sorry for the lack of updates. Been behind on schoolwork so I couldn't compile the spell lists yet. Getting to that soon.

Completely understandable! :smallsmile:

[JKTrickster]

Actually that makes sense now that you put it that way.

Would this make some classes more...."valuable" than others? Would it be bad to have 8 different classes if each class has such a vital role? After all you can't expect everyone to play a different Specialist....

Also sorry I really have to get done with the compiling process :smallsigh:

[Shadowknight12]

Actually that makes sense now that you put it that way.

Would this make some classes more...."valuable" than others? Would it be bad to have 8 different classes if each class has such a vital role? After all you can't expect everyone to play a different Specialist....

Also sorry I really have to get done with the compiling process :smallsigh:

Well, the idea would be to tailor each class to its own speciality so that they all look tempting. Evocation gives you energy damage and BFC, Illusion and Enchantment let you manipulate others in subtle and direct ways, respectively, Conjuration affords you mobility and minions, Abjuration gives you protections, force effects and denials, Divination gives you knowledge, Transmutation gives you buffs, debuffs and BFC, and Necromancy gives you minions, buffs, debuffs and HP management. Each class should be given more than one path to become valuable. Conjuration, for example, could easily have a minion-dedicated path and a mobility-oriented one. One would let you empower your summons at the expense of not being able to do much else while the other would be more oriented for a gish or roguelike character.

That's why the schools should be made both as specific and as varied as possible, so that the ensuing classes end up being attractive and versatile.

[JKTrickster]

What I was thinking as well, although then should we limit spell selection?

I feel the spell selection should be open. E.g. A "Black" Necromancer can still cast Heal, it's just not as effective for them than a "White" Necromancer.

Do you think these should be "paths" or simply abilities that they can pick and choose as they level up. The second option allows them to diversify, but be weaker in each "archetype"

[Shadowknight12]

What I was thinking as well, although then should we limit spell selection?

I feel the spell selection should be open. E.g. A "Black" Necromancer can still cast Heal, it's just not as effective for them than a "White" Necromancer.

Do you think these should be "paths" or simply abilities that they can pick and choose as they level up. The second option allows them to diversify, but be weaker in each "archetype"

Well, my idea was to do something like this, for example:

Necromancer Paths:

Path of Life: +2 to CL and DCs of [Life] and positive energy spells. -2 to CL and DCs of [Death] and negative energy spells.
Path of Death: +2 to CL and DCs of [Death] and negative energy spells. -2 to CL and DCs of [Life] and positive energy spells.
Path of Souls: +2 to CL and DCs of spells in the (Soul) subschool. -1 to CL and DCs of [Life], [Death], positive and negative energy spells.
Path of Balance: +1 to CL and DCs of [Life], [Death], positive and negative energy spells. -2 to CL and DCs of spells in the (Soul) subschool.

Evoker Paths:

Path of Fire: +2 to CL and DCs of [Fire] spells, -1 to CL and DCs of [Air] and [Earth] spells, -2 to CL and DCs of [Water] spells.
Path of Water: +2 to CL and DCs of [Water] spells, -1 to CL and DCs of [Air] and [Earth] spells, -2 to CL and DCs of [Fire] spells.
Path of Earth: +2 to CL and DCs of [Earth] spells, -1 to CL and DCs of [Fire] and [Water] spells, -2 to CL and DCs of [Air] spells.
Path of Wind: +2 to CL and DCs of [Air] spells, -1 to CL and DCs of [Fire] and [Water] spells, -2 to CL and DCs of [Earth] spells.
Path of Convergence: +1 to CL and DCs of all Evocation spells, -1 to CL and DCs of all Universal spells.

And this would only be the initial, Level 1 benefit. I'd like for the Paths to continue shaping the character as they gain levels, obtaining iconic SLAs, passive abilities, Su abilities, and so on. Also, in order to make classes less restrictive, we should give them 4 or 5 "Expanded Knowledge" abilities, where they get to choose 1 arcane spell from any other school (up to 1 or 2 spell levels below the highest they can cast) to add to their spell lists. They would still cast it at a -4 CL, but we can invent feats that specifically mitigate the penalty. You can cast it, but be crappy at it, or blow feats to cast it semi-decently.

That way, you give characters a small way to customise their spell selection while still feeling perfectly okay with making schools exclusive.

[JKTrickster]

Hmm those seem like a great idea!

Sorry I have not been as devoted to this as I would like. My second round of midterms are here (second? why two rounds! :smallsigh:) and it's putting a damper on this project.


My idea was more of a selection menu. Every X levels, they get to choose a feature off of that menu, like how Generic classes work. Some form distinct paths, other provide straight bonuses to CL, etc.

[Shadowknight12]

Hmm those seem like a great idea!

Sorry I have not been as devoted to this as I would like. My second round of midterms are here (second? why two rounds! :smallsigh:) and it's putting a damper on this project.


My idea was more of a selection menu. Every X levels, they get to choose a feature off of that menu, like how Generic classes work. Some form distinct paths, other provide straight bonuses to CL, etc.

Sorry for the late reply, lost computer access for a while. :smallmad:

The problem with free-range selection menus is that it encourages cherry-picking to get ONLY the best at every level. If you already know which features are the best at every level, there will never be another build other than the one that picks the best abilities, creating staleness and uniformity. And before you say "Oh but they can all be balanced", the answer is no, they can't. Well, they could be balanced, but then they'd be 4e-balanced, extremely similar abilities whose main difference is the type of damage they deal or the secondary effect they inflict (but they can't be TOO different because then you'd have one that'd be better than the rest). 4e-balancing also creates uniformity, which is bad.

So what I propose is the creation of different set paths that you pick at first level and then stick with them throughout the class. Of course, you still have choices among the paths (to avoid removing choice from the player), but they are still thematically linked. That lets you give, for example, Black Necros a strong early level ability (to compensate for the fact that their most powerful spells come in at later levels) while giving them weak mid-to-late abilities, and do the opposite for White Necros (because enemy HP starts getting severely inflated as levels go up, reducing the effectiveness of healing). If we let them cherry-pick, they'll take the Black Necros' strong early abilities and then the White Necros' strong late abilities regardless of what they actually end up playing.

[Mystify]

Sorry for the late reply, lost computer access for a while. :smallmad:

The problem with free-range selection menus is that it encourages cherry-picking to get ONLY the best at every level. If you already know which features are the best at every level, there will never be another build other than the one that picks the best abilities, creating staleness and uniformity. And before you say "Oh but they can all be balanced", the answer is no, they can't. Well, they could be balanced, but then they'd be 4e-balanced, extremely similar abilities whose main difference is the type of damage they deal or the secondary effect they inflict (but they can't be TOO different because then you'd have one that'd be better than the rest). 4e-balancing also creates uniformity, which is bad.

So what I propose is the creation of different set paths that you pick at first level and then stick with them throughout the class. Of course, you still have choices among the paths (to avoid removing choice from the player), but they are still thematically linked. That lets you give, for example, Black Necros a strong early level ability (to compensate for the fact that their most powerful spells come in at later levels) while giving them weak mid-to-late abilities, and do the opposite for White Necros (because enemy HP starts getting severely inflated as levels go up, reducing the effectiveness of healing). If we let them cherry-pick, they'll take the Black Necros' strong early abilities and then the White Necros' strong late abilities regardless of what they actually end up playing.
That sounds a lot like what Legend does.

[Shadowknight12]

That sounds a lot like what Legend does.

Pathfinder does it too, only poorly and calls them archetypes. It's a good design idea for games that are mostly D&D 3.5e in ruleset.