A Mass Effect 3 question

[Jeivar]

I know there is a Mass Effect thread, but I want to avoid spoilers until I get my hands on the game in a few days.

It has often felt that everyone has complained about everything relating to ME3 since long before it was released. But now my friend has just finished it and is outraged, calls the ending an unforgivable kick in the balls and complains about the multiplayer being necessary to get the best ending.

I'd heard that to get the best ending one had to either play the multiplayer OR do the side missions religiously. My friend insists this is not the case. Could someone clear this up for me? I love the first two games and I would truly hate to get punched in the face by a crappy ending to the series

And IF my friend is right about the multiplayer, can someone please explain to me why the flaming hell Bioware would pull something like that?? Why force someone who bought an RPG to play a multiplayer game to get a satisfying ending??

[Mr.Moron]

The endings are based on how many military strength points you have at the end. Once you reach about 2800? Or so you've unlocked all the endings. You'll need to do either some multiplayer or a decent amount of side quests for this but neither religiously.

You get a few very minor additions to the endings that don't change the core content by getting up to 4,000-5,000 points. You'll need multiplayer for that.

EDIT:
It should be noted that all the endings are very similar. If you're going to be upset by the endings you get at 2,000 points. You won't be happy with the 5,000 point ending. If you were happy with the 2,000 point ending, 5,000 won't be a major improvement.

[Avilan the Grey]

I have not played the game yet, but apparently there are twice as many "points" available to you in single player than what you need to get the best outcome if you don't do multiplayer. It seems to me it is like the "suicide mission" in ME2 which you really only can screw up if you don't pay attention at all. Or kill people on purpose, of course.

[Jeivar]

You get a few very minor additions to the endings that don't change the core content by getting up to 4,000-5,000 points. You'll need multiplayer for that.

Alright, but that does still leaves me baffled about the whole multiplayer thing.

[Jeivar]

Well, are people at lest overall pleased with the game or is there some non-multiplayer related controversy that I haven't heard about?

[Yana]

ME3 is still an awesome game that plays well and has an excellent story. It's just that the last five minutes of the game are... subpar by comparison.

[Blisstake]

I got the "best" ending with 30 hours of gameplay, and no multiplayer. I don't know why your friend thinks it's necesary. I did around 50% of the side missions.

If you don't import, you may have to do more missions, but it's still possible.

[JadedDM]

Jeivar, you can read more about this here (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/06/mass-effect-3-war-assets-and-readiness-how-multiplayer-affects-your-ending/).

It's also worth noting, there's DLC you can buy that will increase your war assets, so you can basically buy the best ending, too.

Also, apparently people are really unhappy with the endings, even the good ones. We're talking a rage comparable to the Fallout 3 ending. Maybe more so.

[Psyren]

The multiplayer's fun, don't knock it till you've tried it. I didn't even notice when I hit 100% because I was having such a blast, and I've avoided the online component of just about every other title out there.

No, it's not "deathmatch" or "capture the flag."

[Jeivar]

Also, apparently people are really unhappy with the endings, even the good ones. We're talking a rage comparable to the Fallout 3 ending. Maybe more so.

Do you mean people in general, or just a few crazy fanboys?
(getting worried, because I still don't know how to sum up my feelings for the F3 ending...)

and I've avoided the online component of just about every other title out there.

No, it's not "deathmatch" or "capture the flag."

That's encouraging, at least.

[JadedDM]

Do you mean people in general, or just a few crazy fanboys?
(getting worried, because I still don't know how to sum up my feelings for the F3 ending...)

Crazy fanboys are always being crazy, of course. But no, this isn't merely nerdrage as usual over at the Bioware formus. It seems much more widespread and general. There are people organizing internet petitions to convince Bioware to change the ending, via DLC, the same way Fallout 3 did.

Most people I've spoken to do tend to agree the game itself is good. It's just the ending that is driving everyone up the walls.

[Avilan the Grey]

The Endings rage is quite unique and growing. It is even getting noticed by gaming magazines and the like. If it holds up for a week longer, I predict it will actually make regular news.

It seems they knew they were doing something controversial (with the whole "some will hate it, some will love it" quote about the ending 2 weeks before release, but somebody did a miscalculation somewhere...

[Acanous]

The ending needs work, and I would be willing to pay for DLC to make that work a reality.

The rest of the game, however, is brilliantly done, beautifully animated, and has a compelling, immersive storyline.

[Jeivar]

Well. Now I'm worried. And wondering if I should hold off actually playing the game until Bioware comments on the DLC idea. I don't want a Fallout 3 style kick in the balls again.

What's a good way to keep an eye on developments without being bombarded with teasers?



It seems they knew they were doing something controversial (with the whole "some will hate it, some will love it" quote about the ending 2 weeks before release, but somebody did a miscalculation somewhere...

That's unwise, methinks. When finishing a series as beloved as this, one shouldn't take chances.

[Cespenar]

Wow. All this talk started to give me hope about the ending, and I'm not kidding/being sarcastic.

[Zevox]

Well. Now I'm worried. And wondering if I should hold off actually playing the game until Bioware comments on the DLC idea. I don't want a Fallout 3 style kick in the balls again.
Honestly, don't worry about the ending, just play the game. The vast bulk of it is absolutely fantastic, it's literally just the last few minutes that have people complaining. It's not worth missing out on all that's great about it just for worry about how you may react to a few minutes at the end.

Zevox

[Jeivar]

Wow. All this talk started to give me hope about the ending, and I'm not kidding/being sarcastic.

I'm curious about your meaning. Do you mean it gives you hope that the ending will be fixed, or do you somehow get the feeling the ending is better than people are claiming?


Honestly, don't worry about the ending, just play the game. The vast bulk of it is absolutely fantastic, it's literally just the last few minutes that have people complaining. It's not worth missing out on all that's great about it just for worry about how you may react to a few minutes at the end.
Zevox

Well, that is a reasonable advice. As long as its not another case of a radiation-immune ally refusing to enter a radiation chamber.

[Chen]

Bioware has said you can get the best ending (the 4000 Effective military strength (EMS) one I assume) playing just single player.

Now with a properly imported save people have been reporting getting values of something like 3700 (so 7400 but at 50% readiness). I suspect a lot of the actions we thought were the "right" ones from the previous games may not have been and as such some of the "perfect" saves people have been using may not be optimal for getting the best EMS.

Now I don't know if its possible to get the 4000 EMS level without importing a save. I would assume Bioware would have made it possible with the default options at the start of ME 3 (if you started from scratch, perhaps NG+) but that may not be the case.

I figure in a couple of weeks people will have compiled a list of all the ways to gain war assets and a theoretical maximum will have been determined. Then we'll see for sure what endings are possible with no multiplayer.

For now though, it seems exceedingly difficult to hit the 4000 mark without multiplayer. All the decisions I've made in my current game SEEM like the right ones and I got a ton of War Assets from them and I'm around 6400 (so 3200 with 50% readiness). I didn't scan every planet, though I did scan a good number, so that'd probably get me another couple hundred war assets. I still don't see how I could hit that magical 8000 though, it seems too far away.

[Psyren]

An hour or three of multiplayer got me from 50 to about 80% readiness. If you enjoy ME3's combat it'll be right up your alley - you have less powers and weapons obviously (you're not Shepard after all) but this is made up for by your squad being real people and thus able to pull off tactics that only real people could. You haven't lived until you've played ping-pong with an angry Banshee (is there any other kind?) or focus-fired an Atlas from 4 different windows around a courtyard, or see an ally get hopelessly cornered by a Geth Pyro through a window., only to snipe it for him before it can unload.

Even the times you fail are fun, when you find yourself swearing at Phantoms or cheering on the last surviving teammate while he hides from the pair of Nemeses that just took you down. (Seriously, Cerberus are ****.)

[JediSoth]

Just don't rush through the game to see the ending, because there is SO much stuff going on in side quests and in the background conversations that is really, really awesome.

I am not a fan of the endings, but the rest of what's going on in the game more than makes up for it. There are some character moments that are incredibly touching and appropriate payoffs (and a few missteps, but mostly great) for all that's been built up over the last couple of games. I was a fan of neither Jack nor Thane in ME2, but their parts in ME3 were hugely satisfying, and Garrus was EVEN BETTER. Liara's stuff is pretty awesome, too, and I haven't even gotten to the person I chose to romance in this playthrough (Tali).

There are characters you don't interact with at all talking in the background. Sometimes you have to enter the area several time to get their whole story. It's all worth it. It's not all easy to listen to (war sucks!), but it's well done. Characters will move around the Normandy now, talking & hanging out with each other (Joker & Garrus in the cockpit is NOT to be missed...You Tube it if you have to). The world feels more alive than it ever has.

[Psyren]

There are characters you don't interact with at all talking in the background. Sometimes you have to enter the area several time to get their whole story. It's all worth it. It's not all easy to listen to (war sucks!), but it's well done. Characters will move around the Normandy now, talking & hanging out with each other (Joker & Garrus in the cockpit is NOT to be missed...You Tube it if you have to). The world feels more alive than it ever has.

Not to mention, everybody gets off on the Citadel when you do now. There's really good interactions with the crew there, particularly EDI, Liara and Javik.

[JediSoth]

Not to mention, everybody gets off on the Citadel when you do now. There's really good interactions with the crew there, particularly EDI, Liara and Javik.

Yeah, that REALLY added to the feeling of immersion. I wish I could buy versions of ME and ME2 now where the Citadel & Normandy were as lively as they are in ME3.

[Cespenar]

I'm curious about your meaning. Do you mean it gives you hope that the ending will be fixed, or do you somehow get the feeling the ending is better than people are claiming?

The second one.

[kyoryu]

Huh. I just watched the ending on youtube out of curiosity, and I don't really see it as being bad at all. Why are people upset about it?

[Wraith]

Wow. All this talk started to give me hope about the ending, and I'm not kidding/being sarcastic.

I have deliberately been forcing myself not to look up the ending on Youtube, but even so what I have heard doesn't worry me.

Some of the best games that I have ever played - the best, that I have sunk 130+ hours into, each, and still replay as often as I can - are usually the ones that left me watching the credits feeling like I was kicked in the gut. The original Fallout, for example, haunted me for a whole week.

Unless ME3's ending is just "boring", I can deal with it. Happy, sad, traumatic, whatever. I'm in for the very long haul.

[JadedDM]

Huh. I just watched the ending on youtube out of curiosity, and I don't really see it as being bad at all. Why are people upset about it?

Largely, I think--

--because of how bleak it is, no matter what you do.

Also, another big factor, despite what actions you take or what ending you get, under no circumstance does Shepard get to live happily ever after with his/her love interest.

[Cespenar]

@^: Even the unspoilered part there gives quite strong hints. Just saying.

[Derthric]

Huh. I just watched the ending on youtube out of curiosity, and I don't really see it as being bad at all. Why are people upset about it?

There is plenty of ranting about it in the main ME3 thread. Probably should leave this one spoiler free, so if you are curious head over there. Don't go to BSN if you value your sanity.

[Zevox]

Huh. I just watched the ending on youtube out of curiosity, and I don't really see it as being bad at all. Why are people upset about it?
That is a question for the main ME3 thread - Jeivar started this one specifically out of fear of running across such discussions, remember.

@ JadedDM - Pursuant to the above, I would highly recommend editing your reply to kyoryu out entirely.


An hour or three of multiplayer got me from 50 to about 80% readiness. If you enjoy ME3's combat it'll be right up your alley - you have less powers and weapons obviously (you're not Shepard after all) but this is made up for by your squad being real people and thus able to pull off tactics that only real people could. You haven't lived until you've played ping-pong with an angry Banshee (is there any other kind?) or focus-fired an Atlas from 4 different windows around a courtyard, or see an ally get hopelessly cornered by a Geth Pyro through a window., only to snipe it for him before it can unload.
I didn't do anything of that sort when I played it. I just charged up to my enemies and shot or punched them. And because I was playing a Vanguard, not only did it work, but I got MVP of the team in almost every game.

Zevox

[Psyren]

I didn't do anything of that sort when I played it. I just charged up to my enemies and shot or punched them. And because I was playing a Vanguard, not only did it work, but I got MVP of the team in almost every game.

Ha! So you DO like the multiplayer. Weren't you so convinced this was a terrible move by Bioware? :smallamused:

Anyway, it's not like we sat down and planned any of that stuff out in advance. When a Banshee aggros on you and starts jumping, and you get the hell out of dodge, after awhile it'll switch targets - then that person gets the hell out of dodge etc. Hence the "ping-pong" effect.

Most groups I'm in bring down the heavy enemies too fast for fancy footwork like that though.

[Zevox]

Ha! So you DO like the multiplayer. Weren't you so convinced this was a terrible move by Bioware? :smallamused:
Um, no. To both statements. I played the multiplayer for a time, because I needed it to get my score up because I was paranoid about having enough for whatever the little extra part of the ending was that I was told you needed a war score of 4-5k for (turns out I didn't even pick the ending that affects). It wasn't bad, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I like it.

And I've certainly never said that the multiplayer was some terrible move by Bioware. When it was first announced I found it strange, as it seems extremely out-of-place in an RPG like those Bioware makes. Since then I've said that I have no interest in it, which is pretty much still true - I have no plans to start playing it again at this point. And that's all.

Zevox

[Psyren]

Uh-huh.

Anyway, you may be calling it quits now, but I have no doubts the MP is only going to get more interesting as they add DLC.

[Zevox]

Uh-huh.

Anyway, you may be calling it quits now, but I have no doubts the MP is only going to get more interesting as they add DLC.
I really hope that's not going to be where all their DLC efforts go. After ME2's solid run of it (Kasumi and Lair of the Shadowbroker in particular), I definitely want to see ME3's single-player supported with DLC missions and characters.

Zevox

[Acanous]

I'd kinda like to see DLC where you can import a MP char. That'd be interesting, like the cerberus guy who got his own stand-alone.
I mean, if you're going to make a game in-universe with some faceless numpty as the protagonist, you might as well let the players make it THEIR faceless numpty >.>

Anyhow, word is, Bioware IS making a DLC ending.
Hoorah!
Hopefully it's less than my remaining 1000 bioware points.

[Zevox]

I'd kinda like to see DLC where you can import a MP char. That'd be interesting, like the cerberus guy who got his own stand-alone.
I mean, if you're going to make a game in-universe with some faceless numpty as the protagonist, you might as well let the players make it THEIR faceless numpty >.>
What exactly are you talking about there? Import them how? And what's a "numpty?" :smallconfused:


Anyhow, word is, Bioware IS making a DLC ending.
Hoorah!
Hopefully it's less than my remaining 1000 bioware points.
Moving this to the main thread.

Zevox

[James the Dark]

When I first played the ending, it left me feeling hollowed out. I came to gather an understanding about it after a couple days of rumination, but I still don't like it, and I'll tell you why, below.


To end the series, they destroy the setting.
If you pay attention, you'll notice that every single person that you've interacted with who isn't Admiral Hackett (who is indestructible), a part of the standing Normandy crew, or not explicitly mentioned in the third story is dead. That includes the entire population of the Citadel, rubbing salt into that wound. That's the best case scenario. I'd like to say you earned your happy ending, but there isn't one. And then, the setting ends.
The setting is part of what makes Mass Effect so spectacular. Relatively easy FTL, a plethora of alien species (some more alien than others... stupid jellyfish), and meaningful choices make up what is the core of this story. But no matter which ending you pick, those choices are made moot, and the underpinnings of the setting (mass relays, naturally) are gone. No more aliens arguing about 'racist humans'. No more turians trying to get into quarians' exosuits. No more krogan complaining how turian food gives them the ****s. It's taking high Sci-Fi and then leveling it. Almost like dropping everybody back into the present day, but with the added sting of everybody in the galaxy having PTSD and knowing that they've got loved ones somewhere out there in the universe that they will never see again.

While I understand why they did it, as a writer, it annoys me. The story creators have ended the series in such a way that precludes any further narrative in their universe. That pisses me off a little.

[Psyren]

*snip*


To end the series, they destroy the setting.
...
While I understand why they did it, as a writer, it annoys me. The story creators have ended the series in such a way that precludes any further narrative in their universe. That pisses me off a little.


I think you're being premature. They have every intention of continuing Mass Effect, and as far as I can tell, only one ending "precludes further narrative" - the one that, imo, is least likely to be canon anyway.

Anyway, we should probably be having this discussion in the main thread.

[Luzahn]

I was slightly confused with
The mass relays. My impression was only synthesis destroyed them, but some people seem to be acting as if they are all destroyed in any ending.

[Psyren]

I was slightly confused with
The mass relays. My impression was only synthesis destroyed them, but some people seem to be acting as if they are all destroyed in any ending.

They are. The kid's wording is a bit vague so I can see how people thought they might stay intact under one ending and not another, but he basically tells you "the energy of the crucible will destroy the relays."

Control and Synthesis are thus the only hope many aliens have to survive (the latter potentially invalidates their biological needs while the former potentially gives you access to reaper knowledge to potentially rebuild them.) But Destroy is the only ending where Shepard can live.

So either you live or your friends do. And even sacrificing yourself doesn't guarantee their survival. Yay I guess.

[Zevox]

Guys, please take discussions of anything spoilery to the main Mass Effect thread. Again, this one was started by someone specifically wishing to avoid those. And if this thread just degenerates into a second "talk about anything Mass Effect" thread, we'll just end up with a mod merging it into the main one, since we're not supposed to have more than one thread on the same topic active at any given time.

Zevox

[Jeivar]

Well, I got the game today and decided to start playing it and damn well seeing for myself what the endings are like.

Then I got hit with the custom face import bug.

Looks like more waiting for me.

Lovely.

Is there at least some reasonable estimate out there on how it will take them to finish the patch for this?

[Zevox]

Well, I got the game today and decided to start playing it and damn well seeing for myself what the endings are like.

Then I got hit with the custom face import bug.

Looks like more waiting for me.

Lovely.

Is there at least some reasonable estimate out there on how it will take them to finish the patch for this?
Unknown, but they have said they're working on it. Personally I just reconstructed my characters' faces as best I could - which actually worked out nicely for my second, since there was a new hair style I decided to switch to with her. Takes a bit of time and of course won't be perfect, but from where I'm sitting it's much better than waiting for a fix for the importer.

Zevox

[Jeivar]

Alright, one final question here:

I'm all set for the final "kill Cerberus with a cheese grater" mission, and from there on the endgame. How high do I need to keep my galactic readiness for it to make a difference in the ending? I'm currently at around 80%, and effective military strength of 4700.

[Wayac]

Alright, one final question here:

I'm all set for the final "kill Cerberus with a cheese grater" mission, and from there on the endgame. How high do I need to keep my galactic readiness for it to make a difference in the ending? I'm currently at around 80%, and effective military strength of 4700.

From what I've read, you need 4000 EMS if your reputation is high enough (admittedly I thought mine looked maxed but it wasn't enough) or 5000 EMS to unlock all the endings.

[Psyren]

2800 for Synthesis. There are two higher ones (4000 and 5000 respectively) but saying what they entail would be a spoiler. (They are of course very similar to one another.)

[Cespenar]

There's no need to go further after reaching 2800, in my opinion.