If Red Cloak went lich...

[Dr.Epic]

Just a thought. As seen in SoD, the difference in power-level between RC and Xykon originally seemed to just be the lich template. So what if RC went lich? Do you think he could hide this from Xykon with spells or magical items? Could he beat Xykon in his new undead form?

Just a random thought I had. Discuss.

[Gift Jeraff]

Xykon was already capable of 9th-level spells before going lich, IIRC, whereas Redcloak said he didn't even know Heal. So that was far from the only difference in power level.

[Dr.Epic]

Xykon was already capable of 9th-level spells before going lich, IIRC, whereas Redcloak said he didn't even know Heal. So that was far from the only difference in power level.

Red Cloak is still smarter and a better planner. Not to mention he has Xykon's phylactery. He could pull this off.

[Kish]

Aside from the fact that Redcloak doesn't think the undead count as people and thus would never turn himself into one of them...

...no, the only difference between high-epic Xykon and at-least-ten-levels-lower Redcloak is not the lich template. Whatever you're saying he could pull off, he couldn't.

[Dr.Epic]

at-least-ten-levels-lower Redcloak

Okay. How do you get those numbers?

[ti'esar]

Okay. How do you get those numbers?

Redcloak just now hit 17; Xykon has been pegged as being around 27.

[The Pilgrim]

Well, it must be remembered than when Redcloak and his brother hired Xykon in SoD, they were already scared by the power of the Sorcerer who could obliterate them all with some chain lightning.

[FujinAkari]

Okay. How do you get those numbers?

Yeah, Xykon has been estimated to be about Level 27 due to many of the things he's pulled off, and that isn't counting the LA of the Lich Template

[Nephrahim]

Yeah, when they meet Xykon in SoD he's effortlessly clearing out an entire fort that they were about to attack with their entire goblin army. Xykon was clearly far more powerful then Redcloak long before he was turned into a Lich.

[Doxkid]

Xykon would still win.

Starting that fight would only result in their party being split, RC losing his epic arcane caster and Xykon going on a rampage. Without his Phylactery, X would be a might bit more cautious, but he's still too strong for any reasonable kind of fight.

[ti'esar]

I do think that Redcloak's little "the undead are tools" speech was partially self-justification. It's possible in theory that he might go lich for the sake of the Plan. But I can't see any circumstances where that might make sense.

[t209]

What if Redcloak was in near death and Xykon decided to turn him into lich? Like Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars: The revenge of the sith
If Redcloak believes that Lich are servant, maybe xykon decided to make him his servant in near death.

[Tills]

Can Energy Drain effect liches? It is Xykon's main weapon against other spell casters, without it Redcloak (with a lot of planning and preparation) would probably have a small chance if Xykon wastes to many of his high level slots trying to drain him. Also in the battle with Darth V, it was Redcloak who used true seeing to spot the splices, Xykon himself might not think to check for an illusion if Redcloak fakes being hurt.

[Acanous]

Well, from a TO POV, he's already got his 9th level spells, so in the next 3 levels would be the time to do it.

[KillianHawkeye]

Can Energy Drain effect liches? It is Xykon's main weapon against other spell casters, without it Redcloak (with a lot of planning and preparation) would probably have a small chance if Xykon wastes to many of his high level slots trying to drain him. Also in the battle with Darth V, it was Redcloak who used true seeing to spot the splices, Xykon himself might not think to check for an illusion if Redcloak fakes being hurt.

Undead are all immune to negative energy attacks. Spells like Energy Drain actually grant benefits to them.