The little black gem [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Electro

2012-03-12, 06:57 AM

Cranica

2012-03-12, 07:02 AM

Start of Darkness spoiler:
Lirian's and Dorukan's souls got bound in a little black gem Xykon has been keeping in his pocket for a while.

Any ideas what happened to it when Xykon got blown to pieces by Dorukan's Epic Sigil of Nongood Utter Destruction(tm)?

I was going to say his crown survived, so that probably would too, but the crown falls off beforehand in #114. Good catch.

B. Dandelion

2012-03-12, 07:10 AM

It shows up in a flashback panel of 532 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html), which I think is right after SoD but before the start of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools. Note that in the same panel Xykon has Dorukan's headband, and still has it long after his temporary destruction, in order to cast Cloister in 484 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html). Most likely, I think he still has the black gem, too.

Chess Tyrant

2012-03-12, 07:18 AM

I remember something about a lich's items disintegrating and regenerating along with their bodies, so he'd still have the gem, if it didn't fly into the rift... But V picked up a Ring of Wizardry 'from Xykon's charred fingerbone' so I don't know if that works.

If it did fly into the rift, , I think we can expect to see an adventure in the world-within-the-world. There'd be no reason for the Giant to erase the gem from creation (at least, other than preventing the Order from picking it up when they searched the room... But it wouldn't be hard to say it got shattered in the explosion/lost in a corner or something) so I figure we'll see it back someday.

MesiDoomstalker

2012-03-12, 09:48 AM

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Xykon doesn't carea ALL of his stuff on his person skeleton? He could have dropped it off in his old foretress with Serini's Diary in between using it last and his eventual temporary destruction.

I personally suspect a stray Dispel or magical attack will hit it during the final battle (I forget how to free the souls of the top of my head) and will be given a subtle art clue that they are both free. Mainly because Rich said he wouldn't have anything that happened in a print-only book be neccesary to understand the main plot. But then again he could introduce them in the online-comic through the gem. I dunno, I'm not Rich.

Psyren

2012-03-12, 10:29 AM

NerfTW

2012-03-12, 01:30 PM

It's highly unlikely that Xykon would carry such a gem on his person. Most likely, he put it somewhere else, like his second hideout, along with some of the cooler stuff he got in the dungeon.

It's also possible Redcloak was carrying it, in a bag of holding.

But it certainly wasn't destroyed or sent into the rift. What would have been the purpose of putting it in the story only to be ignored?

Porthos

2012-03-12, 02:30 PM

But then again he could introduce them in the online-comic through the gem.

Exactly. We have a case in point with the whole "Wrong-Eye" and "Right-Eye" dynamic.

The importance of Redcloak's losing his eye has never been fully explained in the main comic, but it has been alluded to. For people who have never read the Print Only books, the fact that there is someone named Right-Eye, but who isn't around anymore (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0550.html) plus the fact that Xykon and Tsukiko mock him over that name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0708.html) is enough to know that Right-Eye had special significance to Redcloak (doing a check, I don't believe the exact nature of the significance between the two has been spelled out in the online comic, though I might be wrong).

Thus having read SoD isn't neccessary to understand this dynamic.

However, if one does read SoD, then a lot of things are enhanced and given added meaning. Certain conversations and comments are seen in a new light. That sort of thing.

Bringing this back to the gem, if Rich does decide to bring it back into the comic, all he has to do is have some character, somewhere, explain/allude to why it is so important. If that is done, then a reader doesn't have to have read SoD to understand what was so important about that gem. They'll be told organically in the story.

FujinAkari

2012-03-12, 02:38 PM

Being that Durokan's Headband survived (Xykon used it to cast Cloister) there is no reason to presume the black gem didn't.

suzaliscious

2012-03-12, 09:15 PM

One should not forget that the black gem didn't exist back when Xykon was thrown into Dorukan's Gate. Mr. Burlew had yet to work out most of the plot, I believe.

Krim

2012-03-13, 06:26 AM

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, Xykon doesn't carea ALL of his stuff on his person skeleton? He could have dropped it off in his old foretress with Serini's Diary in between using it last and his eventual temporary destruction.

The Gem is an extremely important possesion, in fact, I'd wager its his single most important possesion. Losing it could prove devastating if someone managed to resurrect Durokan and/or Lirian. Pretty sure he has it well kept.

Elemental

2012-03-13, 07:36 AM

Perhaps it was in that pile of gold, gems and other loot they had after the end of the fight, and they didn't realise what is was due to a simple countermeasure against cursory divinations?

silvadel

2012-03-13, 11:39 AM

Hmmm... If it was just tossed in as loot -- IE a black sapphire worth X GP then it was probably lost at the fire at the hotel...

Lecan

2012-03-13, 11:48 AM

Clearly, it was with his keys. Wherever those are.

FujinAkari

2012-03-13, 11:52 AM

One should not forget that the black gem didn't exist back when Xykon was thrown into Dorukan's Gate. Mr. Burlew had yet to work out most of the plot, I believe.

Unlikely. Rich said he built the overall plot around the time of the "Up a level," "Down a level" strip, which is where Miko and the OotScribble came into existance. While we don't have confirmation that he knew that Xykon had killed them and trapped their souls, I think its pretty darn likely.

You don't plot out a story involving six epic-levelled adventurers without deturming their current state and how they'll affect your current story :)

Dr. Gamera

2012-03-13, 02:24 PM

Clearly, it was with his keys. Wherever those are.

Pockettttt.... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html)

Pokonic

2012-03-13, 02:36 PM

Presumably, along with the Headband and most of the more powerful stuff at Durkons Gate, it's stashed in his Astral-Plane lair. You know, for safekeeping.

Finagle

2012-03-14, 09:40 AM

It was in the saddlebags, silly.

Onyavar

2012-03-14, 12:05 PM

Unlikely. Rich said he built the overall plot around the time of the "Up a level," "Down a level" strip, which is where Miko and the OotScribble came into existance. [...]

This early?? Really? As far as I know, he finished the planning of the overall plot around strip 100. For example, that was when he decided what the MitD really is, if my Lore:Forum Knowledge is right.

Of course he had some idea where the story headed before, but I guess that he didn't already flesh out every detail back around strip 12... For example, The order of the scribble didn't appear incomic before ca. strip 190(!)

Electro

2012-03-14, 01:31 PM

Well, I'm pretty sure the spell description would say something along the lines of
Focus
A hippie headband with an emerald worth at least 10,000 gp.
rather than

Focus
The hippie headband of the wizard Dorukan.

But plot will decide, I guess :smallsigh:

FujinAkari

2012-03-14, 02:01 PM

This early?? Really? As far as I know, he finished the planning of the overall plot around strip 100. For example, that was when he decided what the MitD really is, if my Lore:Forum Knowledge is right.

Of course he had some idea where the story headed before, but I guess that he didn't already flesh out every detail back around strip 12... For example, The order of the scribble didn't appear incomic before ca. strip 190(!)

Eh, I really doubt (in fact, I know) he didn't flesh out all the details of the overall plot at Strip 12, that was just where he got started.

However, he did name the dungeon "The Dungeon of Durokan" and had established Durokan's gate and Xykon's attempts to access it well before Xykon's defeat, so I find it really stretching to presume that Durokan's fate hadn't been decided by that point :P

cloudland

2012-03-14, 02:31 PM

Eh, I really doubt (in fact, I know) he didn't flesh out all the details of the overall plot at Strip 12, that was just where he got started.

However, he did name the dungeon "The Dungeon of Durokan" and had established Durokan's gate and Xykon's attempts to access it well before Xykon's defeat, so I find it really stretching to presume that Durokan's fate hadn't been decided by that point :P

I remembered it being said somewhere by the author before that Dorukan is not necessary even a human back then, so you know, it might be just the dungeon name (consider just earlier it's thought to be created by Xykon).

Mr. Pants

2012-03-14, 03:13 PM

Maybe Xykon sold it on ZBay...

Lecan

2012-03-14, 04:31 PM

Pockettttt.... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html)

Lost again :( (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html)

FujinAkari

2012-03-14, 06:05 PM

I remembered it being said somewhere by the author before that Dorukan is not necessary even a human back then, so you know, it might be just the dungeon name (consider just earlier it's thought to be created by Xykon).

That was at the very beginning, like I said Strip 13 was when he began forming the overall plot. The plot was pretty much created in its entirety by the time he got to Strip 96 I believe (when he was formerly introducing the Gate.)

So, yeah, claiming that Durokan didn't exist as a character (despite Celia referencing him!) prior to SoD being written isn't exactly valid :)

Porthos

2012-03-14, 09:52 PM

Mind, Rich didn't have the complete plot sketched out at around that point.

In the recent podcast he revealed that while he did intend for some other dragon to show up after V killed the Young Adult Black Dragon, he hadn't tied that into a V Sell's His Soul arc as that particular arc hadn't quite yet formed (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12825714&postcount=257):

"... when I did the first small black dragon, that I was gonna have the older one come back and be a villain in some point that would attack Vaarsuvius for what he or she had done. But the sort of sell your soul angle was a little more recent, and more of an attempt to really get at what Vaarsuvius issues were in life. So that sort of dovetailed nicely into one story that I'm really happy with."

So it is entirely possible that Rich had decided that Dorukan had been killed by Xykon, but hadn't yet created the Soul Gem angle. Or maybe he did. Probably no way to know unless he tells us. :smallwink:

Vemynal

2012-03-14, 11:00 PM

However, if one does read SoD, then a lot of things are enhanced and given added meaning. Certain conversations and comments are seen in a new light. That sort of thing.

For example the scene where Xykon gets pissed and almost ices Ochul and V? Where he's *actually mad*. And then when he denies Wrong-eye the ability to grow that eye back. We've only seen him that angry in the online comic once. So when I read SoD I had *no idea* that he had that inside of him.

Mr. Pants

2012-03-16, 12:40 AM

For example the scene where Xykon gets pissed and almost ices Ochul and V? Where he's *actually mad*. And then when he denies Wrong-eye the ability to grow that eye back. We've only seen him that angry in the online comic once. So when I read SoD I had *no idea* that he had that inside of him.

I guess the only thing Redcloak can do now is try to live the life of a pirate...

Elemental

2012-03-16, 02:47 AM

I guess the only thing Redcloak can do now is try to live the life of a pirate...

I somehow doubt that Redcloak has much to fear from Xykon. Remember, he is the chief agent of a god and bears a powerful artifact. Not to mention has possession of Xykon's phylactery.
Xykon may be a Lich capable of epic level sorcery, but if he went up against Redcloak, he'd be versing someone capable of numerous castings of command undead each day, not to mention an army and a whole order of clerics.

Mr. Pants

2012-03-16, 05:11 PM

What could Redcloak possibly be planning to do with Xykon's phylactery? Last time I checked he gave Xykon a fake one...right after he played a game of Drain The Witch with Tsukiko...

MyNameIsSecret

2012-03-16, 05:56 PM

What could Redcloak possibly be planning to do with Xykon's phylactery? Last time I checked he gave Xykon a fake one...right after he played a game of Drain The Witch with Tsukiko...

I think we're drifting a bit off-topic... :smalltongue:

Kish

2012-03-16, 09:42 PM

I somehow doubt that Redcloak has much to fear from Xykon. Remember, he is the chief agent of a god and bears a powerful artifact. Not to mention has possession of Xykon's phylactery.
Xykon may be a Lich capable of epic level sorcery, but if he went up against Redcloak, he'd be versing someone capable of numerous castings of command undead each day, not to mention an army and a whole order of clerics.
Redcloak can cast the arcane spell Command Undead exactly 0 times per day, since he's a cleric, not a wizard or sorcerer.

He can use his rebuke undead class ability to command lots of undead. And if he was an equal level to Xykon, he would have a tiny chance of it affecting Xykon. As long as he's ten levels lower (or as much as one level lower), there is no chance of it working at all.

To hostile armies, with or without clerics, Xykon has many things to say, ranging from "Bouncy Ball With Symbol Of Insanity" to simply "Enlarged Meteor Swarm."

Elemental

2012-03-16, 10:48 PM

Redcloak can cast the arcane spell Command Undead exactly 0 times per day, since he's a cleric, not a wizard or sorcerer.

He can use his rebuke undead class ability to command lots of undead. And if he was an equal level to Xykon, he would have a tiny chance of it affecting Xykon. As long as he's ten levels lower (or as much as one level lower), there is no chance of it working at all.

To hostile armies, with or without clerics, Xykon has many things to say, ranging from "Bouncy Ball With Symbol Of Insanity" to simply "Enlarged Meteor Swarm."

And this is what I get for not checking these things before posting.
Still, Redcloak probably does have some kind of plan to remove Xykon from the equation if the need arises.

Stormlock

2012-03-17, 01:32 AM

I'd note that from what we've seen of Xykon's spell list, he'd be screwed pretty badly by a lot of things Redcloak can summon. Mind affecting, level draining, and fire don't work that well against a lot of demons, for example. Or elementals. Or something like this: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#chichimec You can't dispel things called in by Gate either. Nevermind the very real possibility of the Dark One sending something well beyond Recloak's level of ability to control with gate, considering their end game. Unless the MitD is something truly astonishingly powerful (which I kind of doubt from what I've seen, for one particular reason that shows up in SoD.) Xykon's only recourse would be to get out of dodge. Staying to fight Redcloak would not be viable.

Redcloak also knows a great deal of Xykon's spells and magical items, so he won't make the same stupid blunders many of his enemies have.

ti'esar

2012-03-17, 01:34 AM

So how, exactly, did this go from a discussion of what happened to that gem to another "Redcloak can totally take Xykon, seriously" argument?

teratorn

2012-03-17, 01:52 AM

I somehow doubt that Redcloak has much to fear from Xykon.

Redcloak was beaten by Miko, he's not in the same league as xykon.

Getting this back on topic, Xykon trusted his phylactery to Redcloak so one can assume that other items as important as that (the cloister band and the black gem) would be given to Redcloak. I'd expect him to carry the gem to the new gate since he might be planning to use it.