When is it too late to PrC?

[gallagher]

or is it always a good option to PrC as long as it doesnt hurt your CL?

[killem2]

I don't think there is a wrong time, but there may be a point at which you hit a point of no return where you may not gain nearly as much as you could have, had you left a little wiggle room.

Like, I don't think it would be wise to go level 18 wizard, then 2 levels of master specialist.

[Velaryon]

I think it depends on a few things, such as the individual character build and more importantly, how long the campaign is going to last. If the game isn't going past level 12 for example, entering your PrC at 10 isn't much good because you probably won't reach the really good stuff unless you only wanted a dip anyway.

[Hirax]

For what class? If your next level is a bonus feat level as a wizard then it might be worth one more wizard level, but I generally hit eject from the wizard, sorcerer, cleric, etc. base classes as soon as possible. Dread necros on the other hand get actual class features, so I don't mind staying in the class for all 20 levels.

[JoshuaZ]

It depends on the specific PrC and what one needs to do to get it. For a caster, if one can easily enter the PrC it will often make sense to do so. The really strong example is the Loremaster PrC (although it is by far not the only one) where many spellcasters (especially wizards) naturally fall into qualifying for it after a few levels. Many basic wizard builds will qualify for Loremaster after 10 levels by default. And a few levels of Loremaster is generally better than a few levels of wizard. And if a sorcerer can meet the prerequisites then taking levels of Loremaster makes obvious sense (since they don't even have the bonus feats to lose).

But other PrCs are much less useful in this regard. In general, if a build already qualifies for a PrC that is full casting, taking levels in it makes sense.

[Essence_of_War]

*inserts tongue firmly into cheek*

If I made it to level 19 as a knight (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=2), I'd probably just stick around for Loyal Beyond Death at 20th rather than prc out :smalltongue:

[teslas]

I mean, yeah. It's too late to PrC when you're level 20 in a non-epic game.

[navar100]

Or you can not go into a prestige class at all. You're not obligated to go into a prestige class.

[Curmudgeon]

I mean, yeah. It's too late to PrC when you're level 20 in a non-epic game.
Maybe not. Character level 20 is an appropriate time for a prestige class if you've got 19 levels of Rogue. Some class levels just don't have much to offer.

[Telonius]

If you have a trusted friend with UMD, and a sufficient number of Srcolls of Raise Dead? Never! :smallbiggrin:

Just a bit more seriously, it's only too late to PrC when you no longer have enough levels to meet the prerequisites of the PrC you're looking at (assuming a standard 20-level build). To take the Loremaster example, if for some reason you're playing a Bard that wants to get into Loremaster, it's too late to enter it if you don't have any of the Feat prerequisites by level 9. (You need four feat slots; after level 9, you only have room to fit in three feats).

[Psyren]

or is it always a good option to PrC as long as it doesnt hurt your CL?

3.5 or Pathfinder?

[Essence_of_War]

*removes tongue from cheek*

Since you asked about CLs I assume you're playing some type of caster?

Most caster base classes don't offer a whole lot in the way of class features, so if you see a full-casting PrC that allows you to snag actual class features, and the pre-reqs aren't too odious, that sounds like an even better deal than most caster base classes.

That's not to say that a straight caster isn't very good. Wizard 20, if played properly, is obviously absurd. But some mix of wizard, master specialist, and archmage is even better and has lots of tasty class features to boot.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The majority of the time, grabbing a prestige class sooner is better. As others have mentioned, there are base classes that don't want to prestige class.

You can make a case for single classed anything from Tome of Battle, but each of the three base classes do love dips into other classes like barbarian or fighter 2. Crusaders and Warblades both love Eternal Blade, but if you aren't an Elf, it's not a "gimme."

Looking at core, only the druid wants to stay till 20 (Barring Shifters with Moonspeaker and the rare "I guess I'll allow" Planar Shepard...").

[Blackfang108]

When you look at your sheet and see 'Fighter 7.'

[vhfforever]

When you look at your sheet and see 'Fighter 7.'

Aww....maybe you were trying for Master Samurai?

Or...uhm...something...Zentharim Fighter?

[Dr.Epic]

or is it always a good option to PrC as long as it doesnt hurt your CL?

I don't think it's every a bad idea to enter a PrC.

[Coidzor]

If the campaign's about to end and even if you took a level in commoner you'd have exactly the same chance of success, and the characters will never, ever feature again in anything.

[Curmudgeon]

When you look at your sheet and see 'Fighter 7.'
Yep, that makes sense. Level 8 Fighter gives you access to Greater Weapon Focus (for what that's worth) and Level 9 is where you get the good Zhentarim Soldier substitution level for swift demoralization. If you're committed past Fighter 6 (where you get the full benefit of Dungeon Crasher), you're obviously going for Fighter 9.

[ahenobarbi]

If cost of possible to take PrC levels is higher than gains. Like taking 1 level in Incantantix (loose spell school, sacrifice feat get MM feat...).

[Wings of Peace]

18. After that it's too late to get Mindsight pre-epic with Mindbender (without another prc).

[Rejusu]

Maybe not. Character level 20 is an appropriate time for a prestige class if you've got 19 levels of Rogue. Some class levels just don't have much to offer.

Or you could have 19 levels of Paladin and then take 1 level of Blackguard. Fallin' at the last hurdle.

Really though it's an impossible question to answer. Depends on the game, what's allowed (and what's not), what your base class/classes is/are, what prestige class options are open to you, what level you are...

Honestly you just have to ask these questions:
- Do I benefit more from taking my remaining levels in this PrC than I would taking those levels in my base class?
- Is it worth fulfilling the PrC prereqs to do this?

If the answer to either of those questions is "No" then it's either too late to take a PrC or you just don't have any good PrC options open to you. Some PrC's are only worthwhile due to the class features they get later on, some just start good and are always worth dipping. Some base classes have no particularly good PrC options, like Psychic warrior for example.