[3.5] Strongest there is!

[Hurrashane]

Ok, so after some thinking for an E6 game I came up with a way to get a 29 strength (without magical assistance).

18 STR + Longtooth Shifter (for +2) + Rage (+4) + 2 levels of warshaper for the +4 strength bonus.

That's +10 strength altogether. As far as I'm aware these are unspecified bonuses so I'm pretty sure they stack.

Now, me and my friends got to thinking about extrapolating this to a standard D&D game with 20 levels to play with.

After taking the levels of warshaper (2 more if you want fast healing and more reach) get a permanent enlarge person (+2 more strength) then start taking levels in Warhulk (miniatures handbook) for another nice +20 to STR.

Now all that in mind we have...

18 (base) +2 (shifting) +4 (rage) +4 (Warshaper) +2 (large) +20 (Warhulk) and then another +5 (level 20)

For a 47 STR normally and a 53 STR while raging and shifted.

Note that there's no items added to this as I am terrible with items. Any one know any other ways to raise this beast's strength even higher?

[Keld Denar]

I'm sure you could beat that with some simple combination of Shapechange + Bite of the Werebear.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

bear warrior 5 = STR +16

[Hurrashane]

Doesn't meet the base attack requirement for bear warrior. +4 barbarian + 1 warshaper and then 0 from warhulk.

Also Im sure you can beat the strength with magic. But this is a mostly mundane way to be physically stronger than the tarrasque.

[Feralventas]

War-hulk grants +2 strength at each level, but no BAB.

If you've got access to Pathfinder, a Ragechemist archetype can grant you a +6 alchemical bonus to strength.

[tyckspoon]

E6:
Orc (racial +4)
Orc Paragon 3 (+2)
Barbarian (+4 rage)
Reckless Rage + Extra Rage feats (+2 more Str/Con when raging in exchange for a bigger AC penalty, more Rages/day.)

+6 default, another +6 when raging, and not limited to the Shifter's frankly kind of pathetic number of shifts/day.

(There are of course better classes than Orc Paragon, but if you're looking for raw Strength number without relying on magic buffs? You're not going to do much better.)

You can probably also do better if you're willing to work with LAs; Strength is one of the most common attributes on templates and exotic races.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Orc instead of Longtooth Shifter. Preferably Water Orc, for a con bonus. Longtooths get +2 while shifting. Orcs get +4 all the time.

[Hurrashane]

The orc wouldn't be able to get into Warshaper for the +4 str and con

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

The orc wouldn't be able to get into Warshaper for the +4 str and con(assuming we are not speaking of E6 anymore)
Bear warrior qualifies for Warshaper

[Hurrashane]

Good point, though the lack of thumbs might be a problem...

[tyckspoon]

The orc wouldn't be able to get into Warshaper for the +4 str and con

Shifter: +2 racial, +4 Warshaper while shifting (which, in the absence of taking a bunch of Shifter feats, most of which are pretty bad, is only 1/day.) When not shifting, +0.
Orc: +4 racial all the time.

[Hurrashane]

Warshaper doesn't say you need to be shifted or polymorphed to gain the +4 so +4 all the time, also +4 con. The Shifter's shifting ability is a minor part of this and the only reason to be a shifter is to get into the warshaper class (Shapechanger subtype), you could be a changeling. You could take another shifting ability.

and +4 str and con is better than just +4 str from being an orc.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Good point, though the lack of thumbs might be a problem...
Well you do not need thumbs to perform UAs
Get Hammer Fist (dragon magazin compendium, 1,5 str with UAs)

and then do this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mrvc9-Bgf7g&t=0m21s

[kardar233]

Using Half-Minotaur, Lolth-Touched and War Hulk I got to 40+ strength, which was nice because I was playing an Aeshkrau Illumian that the DM had ruled the racial ability fell under Spell/Psi Transparency. I had a ridiculous amount of PP for someone with only ML5.

[Midnight_v]

Heliomance's Bruce Banner might like a word with you.
Don't make me angry you would like me when I'm angry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105769)

[Hurrashane]

While beating things up as a bear is humorous would it match the damage of wielding a large greatsword? How about if you add powerful charge and greater powerful charge? (as this build barely has a second attack.)

59 str at level 20? Nice. I'm currently sitting at 53 at level 16, though with way less attacks... :smallfrown:

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Don't forget Animal Devotion for an extra +8 STR :smallbiggrin:


While beating things up as a bear is humorous would it match the damage of wielding a large greatsword?
[...]
this build barely has a second attack
You aren't considering claws and bite.
This guy is gonna have 2UAs (3 with haste, 4 with snap kick) + 2 claws +1 bite

About the damage, Amulet of Mighty Fist or Necklace of natural weapons, with wilding clasps, will do the job.

Also, with Improved Grab (that you obtain becoming a bear) you can deal 1 more time your UA damage and with that strenght nothing will escape.

[tyckspoon]

Warshaper doesn't say you need to be shifted or polymorphed to gain the +4 so +4 all the time, also +4 con. The Shifter's shifting ability is a minor part of this and the only reason to be a shifter is to get into the warshaper class (Shapechanger subtype), you could be a changeling. You could take another shifting ability.



All of the following are class features of the warshaper
prestige class. The class features function only when the
warshaper is in a form other than her own (which for doppel-
ganger and phasm warshapers is most of the time).

Sorry. *All* of the Warshaper features require you to be transformed in some way. If you're going to rely on Warshaper, then yeah, you want to be a Changeling, because having to rely on Shifting to activate it just makes it a kind of bad Rage.

[Hurrashane]

Ah, noted. Changeling it is. That bumps the max str down by 2.

[Tenebris]

Warshaper doesn't say you need to be shifted or polymorphed to gain the +4 so +4 all the time, also +4 con.

Sadly not true. I used to think it works that way, but then I noticed a clause before all Warshaper's class features that stated otherwise.

EDIT: Damnation, too late again :smalltongue:


and +4 str and con is better than just +4 str from being an orc.

Why would anyone want to be an orc, when there are (dragonborn) water orcs? :smallwink:

[Taelas]

Better yet, be a water orc and take levels of Bear Warrior. 5 levels gives 16 strength while raging, an increase of +12 over the normal rage. It costs 5 levels of Warhulk, which gives... +10 Str (and no BAB).

18 + 4 (orc) + 16 (Bear Warrior/Rage) + 2 (enlarge person) + 4 (Warshaper) + 10 (Warhulk) + 5 (levels) = 59 Str while raging.

That's 5 levels of Barbarian, 3 levels of Fist of the Forest (cuz why not), 5 levels of Bear Warrior, 2 levels of Warshaper, and 5 levels of Warhulk.

[Tenebris]

18 + 4 (orc) + 16 (Bear Warrior/Rage) + 2 (enlarge person) + 4 (Warshaper) + 10 (Warhulk) + 5 (levels) = 59 Str while raging.
Don't forget +8 enhancement from VoP :smallwink: Also swap 3 levels of barbarian for orc paragon.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Better yet, be a water orc and take levels of Bear Warrior. 5 levels gives 16 strength while raging, an increase of +12 over the normal rage. It costs 5 levels of Warhulk, which gives... +10 Str (and no BAB).

18 + 4 (orc) + 16 (Bear Warrior/Rage) + 2 (enlarge person) + 4 (Warshaper) + 10 (Warhulk) + 5 (levels) = 59 Str while raging.

That's 5 levels of Barbarian, 3 levels of Fist of the Forest (cuz why not), 5 levels of Bear Warrior, 2 levels of Warshaper, and 5 levels of Warhulk.

Trade the FotF levels with Warhulk levels. 65 strength.

[Taelas]

Forgot about Orc Paragon. That's another +2.

Doesn't work, JD; can't get into Bear Warrior that way (Warhulk doesn't grant BAB, and you need +7). Most you can do is 1 level, so another +2.

And that's better taken off of Barbarian instead of FotF. So Barbarian 1/Orc Paragon 3/FotF3/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 2/Warhulk 6 for a total of 63 while raging.

[Midnight_v]

Did you add reckless rage?

[Taelas]

No; it doesn't work with Bear Warrior (as Bear Form replaces the ability score bonuses from Rage), and Reckless Rage specifically increases Rage's ability score increase to Str.

If we start abusing templates, of course, we can dump a Warhulk level for Half-Minotaur + Half-Ogre from Dragon #313. That's a massive increase in Strength (+8 from both templates, and +8 from growing Large), for a total of 79. That's Dragon Mag, though.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

As said earlier, Animal Devotion can add up to +8.

[Taelas]

For 1 minute per day, yes (unless you take it more than once). That's 87 total.

[Zonugal]

Regarding E6 I think a high strength score without a proper outlet for its use isn't worth it.

Which is why I would always prefer a something like Half-Minotaur, Lolth-Touched Orc Fighter 6 or Lolth-Touched Goliath Fighter 6. That +12 to strength checks to break things and the ability to throw around your strength modifier times three (in addition to 8d6 damage) from Dungeoncrasher is probably going to be more useful than a couple more points in strength from things like rage.

[Hurrashane]

Now we just need to find a way to get it's grapple up so it can wrestle the Tarrasque!

[INoKnowNames]

For 1 minute per day, yes (unless you take it more than once). That's 87 total.

1,417,216.

2,838,528

4,259,840

8,519,680

21,299,200

These numbers are, in order, your Light Load, Medium Load, Heavy Load/Overhead Lift, Off the Ground Lift, and Push/Drag.

Holy ****.


Now we just need to find a way to get it's grapple up so it can wrestle the Tarrasque!

Why wrestle? Just throw the dang thing into space!

[kardar233]

You could walk around carrying two horses with that kind of strength. And that's for a Medium character.

This current build is Huge, I think. You can actually carry four times that. I wonder how big of a dragon you could carry around.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Water Orc, Half-Minotaur, Half-Goristro (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a), Lolth-Touched; Half-Fiend is gained gradually (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a), so he only has +1 LA at a time and it's bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) before the next point is gained. He can have all six points of level adjustment bough off at level 18, for a total cost of 63,000 XP. Note that much of that will be made up for his ECL being lower than the party level for most of his career.

Str 18 base, +4 Orc, +4 Half-Minotaur, +8 Size Medium to Large, +8 Half-Goristro, +8 Size Large to Huge, +6 Lolth-Touched, +5 Levels, +5 Inherent = 66

LN, Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) 1/ Cleric 1/ Archivist 3/ Wu-Jen 3/ Mystic Theurge 10/ Contemplative 1/ Sacred Exorcist 1; Rebuke Undead via Cleric, Turn Undead via Sacred Exorcist.

Spell Focus: Transmutation, Ability Enhancer, Reckless Rage, Extend Spell (Domain), Animal Devotion (Domain), Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, Southern Magician, Practiced Spellcaster: Wu-Jen; Bead of Karma, Night Sticks

Persistent Southern Draconic Polymorph into himself (explicitly allowed by Alter Self) +10, Persistent Bite of the Werebear +18, Persistent Southern Giant Size +34 = 128 all day

Rage +6, Animal Devotion +8 = 142
Once again, spells win.

[Hurrashane]

By their nature they win. They are made to win. This thread is using (mostly) mundane things to gain monstrous levels of strength. We haven't even touched on items yet.

[Lonely Tylenol]

A Goliath Barbarian with the Mountain Rage variant gets to 28 STR at level 1 (per E6 rules, just take 25 point buy): 18 base, +4 racial, +4 rage, +2 Mountain Rage variant (which increases your actual size to Large). There's your 29 STR in E6. (Just take a point at level 4.)

You qualify naturally for both Bear Warrior and War Hulk as a Goliath Barbarian, and Bear Warrior qualifies you for the benefits of Warshaper, so apply to this build appropriately.

EDIT: I guess that's what I get for leaving the computer mid-post: everyone's well beyond this point already.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Regarding E6 I think a high strength score without a proper outlet for its use isn't worth it.

Which is why I would always prefer a something like Half-Minotaur, Lolth-Touched Orc Fighter 6 or Lolth-Touched Goliath Fighter 6. That +12 to strength checks to break things and the ability to throw around your strength modifier times three (in addition to 8d6 damage) from Dungeoncrasher is probably going to be more useful than a couple more points in strength from things like rage.
Thread is "strongest there is", not "that very useful guy with a huuuuuuge strength, but not really the strongest"

[Heliomance]

This build is relevant, (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=92492) although gestalt.

[Taelas]

Water Orc, Half-Minotaur, Half-Goristro (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a), Lolth-Touched; Half-Fiend is gained gradually (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20031010a), so he only has +1 LA at a time and it's bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) before the next point is gained. He can have all six points of level adjustment bough off at level 18, for a total cost of 63,000 XP. Note that much of that will be made up for his ECL being lower than the party level for most of his career.

Str 18 base, +4 Orc, +4 Half-Minotaur, +8 Size Medium to Large, +8 Half-Goristro, +8 Size Large to Huge, +6 Lolth-Touched, +5 Levels, +5 Inherent = 66

LN, Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) 1/ Cleric 1/ Archivist 3/ Wu-Jen 3/ Mystic Theurge 10/ Contemplative 1/ Sacred Exorcist 1; Rebuke Undead via Cleric, Turn Undead via Sacred Exorcist.

Spell Focus: Transmutation, Ability Enhancer, Reckless Rage, Extend Spell (Domain), Animal Devotion (Domain), Persistent Spell, DMM: Persist, Southern Magician, Practiced Spellcaster: Wu-Jen; Bead of Karma, Night Sticks

Persistent Southern Draconic Polymorph into himself (explicitly allowed by Alter Self) +10, Persistent Bite of the Werebear +18, Persistent Southern Giant Size +34 = 128 all day

Rage +6, Animal Devotion +8 = 142
Once again, spells win.

Build's illegal. You can't have Lolth-touched and be a druid; Lolth-touched creatures become Chaotic Evil, and druids must be neutral. Your listed alignment is Lawful Neutral, which doesn't work for wu jen either.

Also, you don't qualify for Southern Magician. You must be a Mulan human, but you're a water orc.

You can't combine LA buy-off with Savage-progressions. Savage-progressions are full-fledged levels, not level adjustments.

You'll need enhancement items (or inherent bonuses) to cast those spells; you're suffering a -4 Int penalty (water orc, half-minotaur), and a -2 Wis penalty (water orc). You need minimum 17 Int and 16 Wis. You also need at least 18 Cha to use three Persisted spells with a nightstick adding 8 turn attempts (4 to Cleric, 4 to Sacred Exorcist). More than one nightstick is iffy, to say the least, so let's not go there. This is all more than possible given WBL of an ECL 20 character, so I'm not counting these as flaws, just things to note.


This build is relevant, (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=92492) although gestalt.

Gestalt makes it absurdly easy to boost Strength. Lolth-touched Half-Minotaur Half-Ogre Half-Dragon Feral Werebear Water Orc Barbarian 1/Werebear 6/LA 8/Bear Warrior 5//Cleric 16/Sacred Exorcist 1/Warshaper 2/Warhulk 1. Persist righteous might, greater visage of the deity, and infernal transformation. Another +5 for levels.

18 + 4 + 6 + 8 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 16 + 8 + 16 + 4 + 2 + 8 + 4 + 4 + 5. 115 while raging, 95 without.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

LA buyoff, 28 point-buy, 2 flaws allowed

Orc, Half-Minotaur, Lolth Touched, Draconic (LA+3)
Starting Base Strength: 18 (20 of 28 points spent)
Starting adjusted strength: 42 (18+4orc+4minotaur+8size+6lolth+2draconic)

Classes advancement:
1) stonechild
2) stonechild
3) stonechild
4) stonechild
5) stonechild
6) stonechild (+8 str) BaB+2
7) orc paragon
8) orc paragon
9) orc paragon (+2 str, rage) BaB+5
10) Berserk (deities&demigods, Berserker's Fury +6) BaB+6
11) Frenzied Berserker (comp. warrior, Frenzy +6) BaB+7
12) Bear Warrior
13) Bear Warrior
14) Bear Warrior
15) Bear Warrior
16) Bear Warrior (2nd bear form, +16) BaB+12
17) War Hulk
18) War Hulk
19) War Hulk
20) War Hulk (+8 str)
Feat "animal devotion" (+8Str)

Total STR non raged:
64 (42+8stonechild,+2paragon+8warhulk,+4level)

Total STR raged:
100 (64+6berserk+6frenziedberserker+16bear+8animaldevo )

without magic

[Heliomance]

LA buyoff, 28 point-buy, 2 flaws allowed

Orc, Half-Minotaur, Lolth Touched, Draconic (LA+3)
Starting Base Strength: 18 (20 of 28 points spent)
Starting adjusted strength: 42 (18+4orc+4minotaur+8size+6lolth+2draconic)

Classes advancement:
1) stonechild
2) stonechild
3) stonechild
4) stonechild
5) stonechild
6) stonechild (+8 str) BaB+2
7) orc paragon
8) orc paragon
9) orc paragon (+2 str, rage) BaB+5
10) Berserk (deities&demigods, Berserker's Fury +6) BaB+6
11) Frenzied Berserker (comp. warrior, Frenzy +6) BaB+7
12) Bear Warrior
13) Bear Warrior
14) Bear Warrior
15) Bear Warrior
16) Bear Warrior (2nd bear form, +16) BaB+12
17) War Hulk
18) War Hulk
19) War Hulk
29) War Hulk (+8 str)
Feat "animal devotion" (+8Str)

Total STR non raged:
64 (42+8stonechild,+2paragon+8warhulk,+4level)

Total STR raged:
100 (64+6berserk+6frenziedberserker+16bear+8animaldevo )

without magic

Yes, but that's a level 32 character.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Yes, but that's a level 32 character.
29 is a typo, I meant 20 (as you can see as it follows level 19)

Effective Character Level is 20 because of LA buyoff applied to the three LA+1 templates

[Andion Isurand]

If you aim this toward a Hulking Hurler build...

You can take the Natural Heavyweight feat (Planar Handbook) to double your carrying capacity.

Then you can use the Belt of the Wide Earth (MIC 204) to double it again.

Then you can also use the Pale Turquoise Prism Ioun Stone (Kobold Quarterly 6 pg 62), which halves the weight of all you carry by half for purposes of encumbrance.

[Acanous]

so effectively anything you can "Lift off ground" is something you can carry, and your "Lift off ground" is thrice what is stated.
Multiplied again if you go up in size category.
I believe there was once an experiment done which measured the weight of the earth, let's see if Yahoo answers has it:
6,000,000,000,000 ,000,000,000,000Kg.
That's too many 0's. Looks like a "best guess rounded" answer, but eh.

Ok, Kg to Pounds is multiply by 2.2, which gives us
13,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 pounds.

Now what can a huge creature with those items and a str of 100 carry?
Looks like max weight normally would be 26,214,400.
Given the multiplier rules (If something would double it again, instead it becomes *3) we get 78,643,200 for a medium creature.
Carrying capacity is *4 for each step up, so Med->large gives us 314,572,800
Large->Huge is 1,258,291,200.

You can carry approximately one hundred-billionth the weight of the world at this point. (Rounding in your favor)

Now, push or drag rules... 3,145,728,000.
or 1,572,864 tons.
I'm having a problem finding a conversion for tons of force into speed so I can figure out if you could literally throw something into space, but if I were DMing you'd at least hit upper atmosphere.

[Andion Isurand]

I think because weight can be measured in terms of IRL values, the doubling in this case... is actual doubling.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

yes, it is actual doubling.
Also, magic items can be very useful.
Add at least +4 inherent, +6 enhancement and +2 for a permanent item of "expansion" (which also brings our size to one step better)

This is easy to get with WBL, not counting hypotetic 1/day items of Bite of the Werebear or augmente expansion (which is very doable at LV20)

[Acanous]

if that is actually doubled twice, you're looking at 1,677,721,600 pounds of lift.
With the size increase (to gargantuan) that becomes 6,710,886,400
and your push/drag is ...16,777,216,000
huh, never noticed that before.

[Andion Isurand]

+2 insight to STR from psionic Adrenaline Boost power (Complete Psionic)
+2 to STR from Silthilar Muscle graft (LoM)
+4 sacred bonus to STR from Righteous Fury spell (Pal 3, SpC 177) or profane bonus in the case of a paladin of slaughter/tyranny

and of course the Ability Enhancer feat if it hasn't been mentioned already

[Acanous]

isn't that feat Epic?
Insight bonus, doesn't the Ioun Stone grant that type as well? not a critique, just seeing if they'd stack.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

+2 to STR from Silthilar Muscle graft (LoM)
Yeah right, Grafts... :smallsmile:

From fiend folio:
-Aboleth Tentacle +4