Need advice for my DM

[Zeikstraal]

Hello Playground,

Normally I am the DM for our group. And I run a campaign for 4 others, but one of the guys has some time problems, but he realy enjoys my campaign. So where playing every week, one week my campaign, other week an other party.

Now I'm noticing that the other DM has some difficulties with the campaign.
I haven't had the chance to talk to him about it. But I will update this when I have.

I notice, not only bad things, the DM realy tries to let us have fun at his sessions. He isn't an inexperienced player, he plays D&D for 5/6 years, but he is new to DMing.
When we where discussing character ideas, and campaign ideas. We agreed on a Pirate campaign, wich is cool, and the DM can really do a lot with this. I also told him that the way I DM, which is basically throw in some plothooks and just go with the party, is way more fun, as well for the Dm as the players, than the standard adventure / railroad.

The players agreed that I would be there captain, cause one of them is too inexperienced, he plays for 2 months now. And the other didn't want to, he wanted to be the boat Wizard.

So I waited with my character untill I knew both of their characters, and see what was needed. we started lvl 8.
Well the Wizard wanted to be an Evocator/enchanter/Diviner. Do damage with fireballs, Hold persons with Enchantment and Read minds with Divination.

The other guy wanted to play a Gunslinger, so that should do some damage. I have one in my campaign and that one can potentialy deal 90 damage in a round.
But the one in this party, goed for 2 Weapon fighting with 2 Revolvers. Which doen't work, cause you need a free hand to reload. Me, the Dm and the absent guy have told him 3 times that it was a bad idea, and that if he wanted to contribute, he should rebuild his character. But he didn't wanted to.

So I made a character who could deal damage, has potential to tank, and could also heal a bit, and be the party face. Battle Cleric seemed like an obvious choice, but it didn't fit my character concept. So i rolled up a magus, with Dervish Dance, and the Intensified Shocking trick for the damage, memorized some spells like mirror image and shield, invested in UMD for the healing, and bumped my Cha and bought some items for Bluff, diplomacy etc.

Now, comes the problem, as I see it.
The other players suck at doing their job. The gunslinger has used his revolvers 1 time in the 4 sessions we had. And otherwise used his rifle for 1D10 + 7 Damage at lvl 8. He refuses to change his character, even after 3 people with all 5+ years experience, to switch feats for the Rifle.

The Wizard changed his spells and specialization to Conjuration, and became a God Wizard. So his Character concept changed.

But the DM wants to let everybody shine, and he is realy desperate to achieve at that. I do 100+ damage in a round, with full attack + shocking Grasp. And I know he doesn't have a problem with that, but the other players lack in contributing.

I give some examples on what the party does, and what the DM does.

Example 1: He threw in a Devourer, the Gunslinger got knocked out in round 1, in round 2 our NPC cleric, got confused and hit the Wizard to near 0 HP, so he fled, and I manhandled the devourer single handidly.

Example 2: We where on a job, to bodyguard an important Person. At some point, a bottle with blue liquid gets thrown over the railing and lands on the deck where standing on. There is a lot of Ice, and everybody that gets hit is frozen solid.
Now the Dm tells us, the ice is coming at us and only the Wizard has the time to react in a plit second to counter it. So the Wizard says Dispel Magic, the DM asks if he has other spells, with fire. He says that he has a Fireball, and thats it. So the DM thinks about it, and he says this: Well, you find a way to let the Fireball come out in short bursts, so you harm no one, but you fire is protecting you and 3 others from the Ice.
Afterwards, we get our pay, and the Wizard gets another 5000 Gold for his heroic actions.

So he can't throw in encounters that would stop me. Cause if I get stopped, the other 2 will also get stopped.
It looks like he sees no other way, than railroading to let someone else shine.
But the Wizard has read the Treantmonk Guide and knows that he will not do damage, and he is fine with it.

I have talked to the other player who isn't participating in this campaign, and he gave his opinion about it. It basically is that he thinks, that the DM is too inexperienced to handle my character, cause of the ridicilous amount of damage I do. He thinks that the DM has a good grasp on the other 2 characters, but I can basically do whatever I want.

Now he is right in some way, I do the most damage and after he said it I kinda saw it, that the DM has no grasp over my character.

What does the "Playground with infinite knwoledge", has to say advice, over my character or over this situation?

The DM, I really think is in need of help.

Sorry for the long read, and if something isn't claer, just ask:)
And sorry for the bad spelling sometimes, English isn't my native Language.

[bloodtide]

Well, dare I say that this is the problem with making an optimized character(that may also be broken, bending the rules or outright cheating as well). Now there is nothing wrong with optimization(Except the broken, bending and cheating parts of it, of course). But the big thing about optimization is the DM needs to be able to adjust for it.

It's simple enough: The rules only take into account normal characters, not optimized characters. So to have a balanced game with optimized characters, you have to increase everything else in the game. And one of the best counters for optimization is aggressive foes with intelligent clever tactics. But that requires a good and experienced DM.

An easy fix is to just tone down your character.

Other then that, well you just have a Newbee game. And as your not the DM, you can't do much. Sure you can talk and talk and talk to everyone until your blue in the face and the cows come home, but that would do much. You can explain everything, dozens of times, but if they don't get it before, they won't get it now. And no players really likes to be told 'take that feat' and no DM really likes to be told 'do this or that'.

Other then talking (and I don't recommend that) to do anything else you'd need to be the DM. For example, I'd destroy player ones rifle, then he could not use it.

[Canarr]

+1 to toning down your character. If the others can't optimize enough to keep up with you, then you need to "de-optimize" far enough that you are on the same level again. Of course, you need to find a way to do that and still have fun playing your character.

But you won't be able to convince the gunslinger to play the way you want him to, if he wants to play a different game.

[Zeikstraal]

Toning down my character, is also a thing that came to mind.

As far as the gunslinger goes, we not told him to do this and that otherwise he would suck. But we explained why the revolver idea was a bad thing and does not work, cause you need to drop one revolver every other round to reload the other.
We told him that he would lack damage, and could not full round attack except for the first round. So that it might be better to just go one revolver, or the rifle, that he uses all the time, and just drop the revolver idea.

As far as optimization goes, the wizard is far more optimized than me. I just know how to play better.
The only thing that is optimized, is the background trait, that lets me use Intensified shocking Grasp as a lvl 1 Spell.
I haven't dumped any stat. My 2 main stats are both 18, and I focused more on the fluff items then on the good items.

So if I tone my character down, I would do 30 Damage Max less damage. Or I need to negate Class abbilities. So I don't see that working either.

I think a new character would be a better solution. Cause playing my character and tone my damage down to 1d6+7, I need to get rid of some dex, not use feats, and not use class abbilities. I don't think I will have fun with that:smallbiggrin:

But there will be some talking, also with the other players in the group. How everybody is experiencing this campaign.

[Namfuak]

I don't see why you are so against the two-gun guy's idea. I have never played Pathfinder, but just looking through the OGL it looks like there are even basic firearms that can hold more than one bullet at a time.. If the sheathing/drawing rules have not changed, and you allow quick draw to apply to sheathing as well, he could simply spend a full round action reloading each gun, and be back in the fight next turn (move action reloading one gun, standard reloading the other, sheathing and drawing to leave the appropriate hand empty are free actions). I don't know how this would stack up in terms of damage to your character, but at least his character concept would be feasible.

[Zeikstraal]

I think the idea is great, but with rapid shot he takes a -6 penalty, touch attacks or not, - 6 is a big penalty. The quick draw feat only says draw not sheathe. So after he makes his first round attacks, with haste + rapid shot. he shoots 4 attacks with his main weapon and 2 with his off hand. And to reload it he needs to drop or sheathe a weapon, because he needs one hand free.

I love the idea, but it just doesn't work. 2 extra attacks for a -6 penalty, is a little too much.

And besides that, he has only used his Rifle, and thats also his only magical one. And on one occasion he has drawn one revolver, and thats in 4 sessions.

That is why I'm against it. Well not against it, he should do whatever he wants ofcourse. But if he uses his rifle most of the time, he should dedicate to it. Because 1D10+7 aint a whole lot.

[Kol Korran]

first of all, this sounds more like a party problem, or players problem and not a DM focused one. that guy might have to settle for bein ineffectual, listen to you or you toning down, it's between the PLAYERS.

some players are fine with being not so effective as long as in their mind they are doing their thing. you can't, and should not try and force a player to change their character. lead by example, be cool at what you do and he might follow. otherwise you might alienate him from the game.

if as a group you can overcome obstacles that is fine. you can have the ineffectual gunslinger tag along till he decides to better himself up. the problem might come if you have a major difference in defensive capabilities more than offensive. if he has much lower HP, saves or AC than when the DM ramps things up for you he will massacre this guy. that does warrant a talk with the DM.

[Krazzman]

Show him the gunslinger handbook and explain to him what is wrong with his character, IF he tells you he ain't having fun about the whole point of shooting 1gp bullets and not being able to get his thing working.

Furthermore:
There are leather straps that let you get your weapon back as a free action if you dropped it or got disarmed. With that it could be viable.

Hope this helps you.

[Zeikstraal]

Yes it actually is more of party problem. It started with the DM wanting to let everybody shine, but it is indeed more a party problem.

Yes I will show the handbook to him, maybe he sees it, maybe he doesn't

And for the Weapon cords, thank you, that might work!!!!!!! that can indeed be the solution. I shall show it to him thank you.

ps: Malphite is cool!!!!