Noisy Dorm

[noparlpf]

I'm going to be trading rooms with a friend next weekend. He gets bad migraines, and my hallway is the quietest one in the freshman dorms because I'm such a grouchy old man and complain so much. My school has a "quiet hours" rule, meaning that loud noise is an infraction-worthy offense between 8:00 PM and 8:00 AM. The dorm I'm moving into has an unofficial "no quiet hours" "rule". I plan to change that.

My current plan is to do what I always do, which is to go to the room where the noise is coming from and to ask them to quiet down. (I go to bed around 10:00 PM.) I am then perfectly within my rights to call security on them if they don't quiet down.
If that doesn't work, I'll get passive-aggressive, and I'll start being loud, blasting music, whatever when I get up at 5:00 AM. If there are no quiet hours, they can't complain.
If that doesn't work, I'm going to beat them up.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Katana_Geldar]

Talk to your RA, if they don't be quiet.

[Grinner]

I used to have a friend who tried this at one point. He ended up in a stereo throwdown with his neighbors.

His weapon of choice? The Olsen Twins.

[Traab]

{Scrubbed}

[Madara]

Awww, that's nice of you. Trading rooms and all. Although, I would have had your friend be the one to put up the complaint, because then he can always pull the "I need it to be quiet because I have severe migraines." card, which would easily trump whatever the noisy ones could do.

Still, good luck.

[Moff Chumley]

Just because you have to get to sleep at 10 doesn't mean everyone else does. By the same token that I'm not going to complain when you make noise early in the morning, I'd hope that you'd leave me be as long as I'm being more or less reasonable.

[Siosilvar]

Start with 2 AM, not 10 PM. College students are MUCH more likely to be reasonable about your request when it's only a few hours and not, you know, all the time when they're actually in the dorms.

[Jack Squat]

Who normally enforces the quiet hours? Are there RAs on each floor, or is security the only option? Was that dorm advertised as having no quiet hours, or did the residents just decide they didn't care, and no one's bothering to enforce it?

Back when I lived in a dorm, I never had a problem taking care of noisy neighbors. Normally a call to the front desk/my RA would take care of it if asking them didn't, though at one point I did end up resorting to psychological warfare - I don't think that particular guy will ever be able to listen to Jessie's Girl again.

I'd say that your first choice should be to see how bad it is. Some guys watching a movie is really something that you can probably just try and ignore - at most all it should take is asking them to turn it down while late at night.

If some guy is blaring rap/dubstep/whatever and you could swear that he has the speakers pressed up against the wall, it's probably not out of place to jump a little higher on the ladder and go straight to someone with authority. This is what happened to cause my psych warfare story - which I would actually recommend against doing, as in retrospect it can go really wrong if you don't know how the guy is going to react.

Kudos for throwing yourself into the situation to help out a friend, but I don't know that I'd jump into that situation expecting the noise problem to change.

[Coidzor]

You guys have no other options?

[Lycan 01]

Sorry, but I don't expect you to have much success. Randomly moving into a new dorm and then demanding that everyone on that hall be silent or else... Yeah, they're not going to listen to you. And you'll probably open yourself up to a lot of disdain, insults, and pranks.

Can your friend not appeal directly to the administration or housing department? Surely they can provide him with better accommodations, especially if his migraines are a medical condition. Forcing yourself into a situation like this may not be the best choice, as you'll either have to put up with a lot of crap, or put up with a lot of crap and earn some enemies in the process...

[Togath]

Try asking them to be quiet first, if that fails start with things such as asking whoever handles the housing to punish them.
If they get violent just call the police on them.
If they try to annoy you, get a restraining order/call security, simple as that.
Heck, if they're making too much noise you could probably enforce noise ordinance, at least where I’m from police are willing to help enforce it, especially if it happens at night, and I would assume anything that could be considered breaking noise ordinance would count as a infraction of the dorm’s rules.
Then again, if the noise is just something such as watching movies in their rooms loudly it’s probably less of a big deal, and could be solved without needing police or security(still, ask whoever is in charge of housing there to punish them if they continue).
Also, perhaps I'm missing something, but if they were/are the kind of people to become "enemies" they'll become them regardless, so why delay things?
As I’ve pointed out above it can't hurt, and any violent or annoying action they take against you for asking them to be quiet/enforcing the dorm's rules can get them punished.

[Mewtarthio]

I'm afraid I have to agree with the more pessimistic posters here. A guy with a medical condition would have had a chance at changing things. You won't have any rapport with your floormates to quiet things down diplomatically, and the fact that you deliberately moved there despite knowing it was a loud dorm will probably count against you when you talk to the RA. I don't know what the university's official policy on quiet hours is, but if you do manage to get them enforced from the "outside" (eg the Security option you mentioned), you'll have traded a loud dorm where no one really cares about you for a quiet dorm where everyone hates you.

Just tread cautiously, is all I'm saying.

[noparlpf]

The dorm RAs are almost never in the dorm, and they don't bother to enforce the rules.

My friend has tried going to the administration. The housing person has been anything but helpful. I'm pretty sure he hasn't made too big of a deal about the noise to the kids involved or to the RAs because he doesn't want to be seen as an ass. I don't have such reservations, but we'll see how it goes.

Is it really that unreasonable to expect people to follow the rules? Is it really that unreasonable to try to get a good night's sleep every night? What the heck can people possibly be doing to make that much noise? Maybe I'm just a quiet sort of person.

[dariathalon]

No, it's not unreasonable to want people to follow the rules. However, I really don't think you're going to get to see it. Especially going about it in this way. The new guy walks in starts complaining immediately. You're not exactly going to endear yourself to the new floor. Thereby making them even less likely to adhere to your requests. Think about it, a friend comes by asking you to be quiet is probably going to be getting a much better response than some stranger who is always complaining about it anyway.

I feel sorry for all the people who are willing to follow the rules with your plan. I was usually a pretty quiet person in college. I didn't mind loud noise late at night because I was usually awake anyway though. But if someone came and asked me to quiet down, I certainly would have. Then to be awoken at 5 am by loud music playing just because someone else didn't bend to your will would have really upset me. (I wanted to sleep in until 7:45 for my 8:00 class thankyouverymuch!) The next time you came by to ask for quiet, I doubt I would respond very well. This kind of passive aggressive behavior doesn't work.

[noparlpf]

Yeah I probably wouldn't actually play loud music at 5 AM just to be passive-aggressive.

[Jack Squat]

It's not normally unreasonable to expect people to follow the rules, no. It is a little unreasonable to expect to single-handedly change a culture to conform to following the rules though. Really what needs to happen is that the administration needs to step up enforcement and make it clear that it's unacceptable.

People aren't going to change what they do so long as they don't believe that it's wrong -and if the majority of the dorm is OK with no quiet hours, they're going to think it's fine to ignore that rule.

[Bastian Weaver]

Go, grouchy old man!

[The Succubus]

Yeah I probably wouldn't actually play loud music at 5 AM just to be passive-aggressive.

If I were in your position, I certainly wouldn't go and buy the biggest speakers I could find and a set of high quality ear defenders. I also wouldn't search on youtube for "10 hour Nyan Cat Loop".

Nuh-uh.

[Nai_Calus]

Going to have to agree with all the 'it won't work' people. Now mind you, it may make you feel better, but in the end it won't help.

[Dr.Epic]

Talk to your RA, if they don't be quiet.

Agreed. I'd also wouldn't use the fight fire with fire plan of playing loud music when they don't like it. You're only going to escalate things and who knows where that will go.

[Aedilred]

I think you need to take a step back. You're approaching this in a very confrontational and aggressive manner and you haven't actually experienced a problem yet. Before doing anything I'd wait to see how bad the situation actually is for yourself and judge whether the noise in the dorm is actually unreasonable. Blaring music at 3am on a weeknight? That's not really on. People watching a movie or having a small party every couple of weeks at 10.30 on a Friday - that's a different kettle of fish.

If you go in insisting from the off that they change their ways to conform to your schedule and expectations they're going to think you're unreasonable (after all, what student keeps hours of 5am-10pm?!) and you're going to forfeit any sympathy from neutral parties. See what's going on and begin (once you've settled in a bit, not on the first night) by addressing particularly egregious and unreasonable examples of noise late at night/early in the morning.

Don't be that guy who moves in next to a racetrack and tries to get it shut down because of the noise (http://www.historic-motor-racing-news.eu/2009/10/defend-spa-francorchamps/), or the woman who moves in next to a cricket ground and tries to get the game banned because she gets the odd ball in her garden (http://m.espncricinfo.com/s/5644/opinionDetails?countryId=&country=US&itemTitle=When%20cricket%20was%20called%20a%20tort&storyNo=554175&allinOne=true&writerName=&flag=true). If you take that approach in your new dorm, they're going to hate you, and the consequences won't be fun for anyone.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Yeah, I think you're being rather extreme, and this is coming from someone who is absolutely fed up with her roommate and hallmate keeping her awake at night! How many people in your hall quietly loathe you?

[Coidzor]

The dorm RAs are almost never in the dorm, and they don't bother to enforce the rules.

...Where do they sleep then? :smallconfused: And is this of that particular dorm or for all dormitories on campus?


My friend has tried going to the administration. The housing person has been anything but helpful. I'm pretty sure he hasn't made too big of a deal about the noise to the kids involved or to the RAs because he doesn't want to be seen as an ass. I don't have such reservations, but we'll see how it goes.

There's got to be someone else looking to change rooms though, who wouldn't view this as some kind of crusade. I'd recommend you to see if you can go over with your friend what's happened on the official front so far and then see if you can take additional steps or even go over the head of the person who has been the formal contact so far.



Is it really that unreasonable to expect people to follow the rules? Is it really that unreasonable to try to get a good night's sleep every night? What the heck can people possibly be doing to make that much noise? Maybe I'm just a quiet sort of person.

Mostly it's that going in and picking a fight with an entire dorm floor is rarely a wise choice of action.

Wait. You don't even know what they're doing? You're literally trying to jump into a situation you know jack all about blind and then try to change it? :smallconfused: Dude. That's an even worse idea than trying to force the entire dorm to change its behavior without even first looking for allies that just hadn't spoken up yet. :smallannoyed:

Why don't you try going over there sometime or try crashing in your friend's room?

[pendell]

If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see I had trouble with my downstairs neighbor because my wife was folding clothes too loud, so as you can imagine I'm imperfectly sympathetic.


There's written rules, and there's the way those rules are actually enforced. For instance, in theory all non-business use of the internet is forbidden at some workplaces. In practice, no one obeys that rule to the letter, even the people charged with enforcing those rules. Instead, there's a way of life where some things are tolerated (accessing facebook, using google to check news) while other things result in the hammer falling hard (use of a business machine for pornography, spam, anything that might embarrass the company).*

Nonetheless, the written rules remain as they are because it's easier than changing them, and there are sometimes liability reasons. Eventually, if enough people ignore the law it becomes a dead letter, as in the law (still on the books in some places) requiring a car to have a man walking in front with a lantern.

There's the written law, and there's the precedent and the customs that grow up around it that interpret that law.

Now here we have a dorm where the quiet rule is more or less ignored by the entire dorm. Presumably the noisy people gravitate there while quiet people go elsewhere for just that reason.

And now you're going to try to make them into a quiet dorm?

I advise against this course of action. You're new. That means you play by their unwritten rules and customs, not them by yours. Nor will the university thank you for it. Doubtless the university knows damn well that the dorm is in violation, but that it's easier for all concerned to put all the noisy people together than it is to split them into many different dorms (with all the hassle that would result in) or trying to make noisy people quiet. It's the path of least resistance for the university to put all the noisy people together and call it a day, whatever the letter of the law says.

The end result is that I predict passive resistance and minimal enforcement from the university authorities tasked with enforcing the rules, and outright hostility from your dorm mates. Speaking as someone who has been in authority, NO ONE in authority will thank you for making more work for them. The current setup suits the university or they would already have changed it. Even though the letter of the law is on your side, the customs of the university are against it. Which means as far as both enforcer and dorm residents are concerned, you're the problem, not them. They may not come out and say that, but that's how they'll act all the same.

My advice, then, is learn to love your dorm as it is. If you must change things, try to do something to win sympathy for yourself with your dorm-mates first, like provide cookies or something else. People will do almost anything for a cute puppy but they'll turn aside in disgust from a snake. So if you want people to change things, make yourself lovable :).

If you're not willing to do this, the other thing to do is to find a quieter dorm.

I estimate about a 10% chance of lasting change and a 100% increase in aggravation and irritation among people who already have enough aggravation from coursework. I don't believe the game is worth the candle.


* This post is being made from home, incidentally.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Tono]

Don't know your details, but I do know this.
Most Dorms don't have cameras except at the entrances and exits. Some(it depends on the place/complaint so much stuff that we can't get into here) security places let the person who is being escorted out/fined know who the complainer is.
Moving in and complaining, and then calling in security will piss off a lot of people.
There are ways to damage doors and locks so that they would need to be replaced. That gets expensive. If nothing else it is easy enough to make it seem like you have weed/whatever else is illegal in your dorm and cause problems with constant room searches/complaints. (Experience with this type of stuff... Not on me personally but with others on the floor, it gets really bad.)

Point is, choose your battles. If they are the type of people who won't turn down the volume late at night, they are the type of person who would seek petty revenge.

Switching so your friend wont have to deal with migraines? Admirable. But don't expect it to be any better for you then with him.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

My case? Unless there's a ridiculous amount of noise regularly, suck it up. You move into a certain place, that place has it's culture. Gotta accept that. The occasional loud party? that's to be expected. Maybe someone's playing music a little loudly at 10? expected.

If there's RIDICULOUS amounts of noise at 11 or 12, regularly, then you can complain. Before that, though, you're just coming off as a jerk who's forcing change upon EVERYONE's life so you can get your beauty sleep.

[pendell]

If nothing else it is easy enough to make it seem like you have weed/whatever else is illegal in your dorm and cause problems with constant room searches/complaints.


A nasty person could plant weed or illegal drugs in your room, then call the cops. When they find the goods .. well, I hope you know the number of a good lawyer!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Tengu_temp]

If the noise during quiet hours bothers you, because you want to sleep or whatever, then do this:
1. Ask the noisy people could they act quieter, because it's late and technically people are supposed to be quiet at this hour anyway.
2. If they refuse, tell them that you'd rather be a good neighbor but if they won't obey the rules, you will call the administrator/security/whoever is in charge of enforcing this.
3. If they still refuse, go complain to the higher-up mentioned in post 2.

And screw unwritten rules. There is nothing that forces you to obey them but peer pressure (something that should have no place in the world of adults), if one gets in your way, don't hesitate to break it. Besides, people who refuse to be quieter when politely asked to are almost always *******s anyway.

If people are being loud up late and it doesn't bother you, though, don't tell them to be quiet just on principle. That's just being a stick in the mud.

[Eloel]

Loud neighbours just upstairs. Shouting "SHUT THE MUSIC, NOW" from within my room always worked. In the one case it didnt, shouting the same to his face worked just fine. Screw passive aggression, guns-blazing is just as valid if you trust your guns.

[noparlpf]

Earlier I said "What the heck are people even doing that makes so much noise anyway?" because half the time it's something I would never have imagined. (Last week the loud thumping and cracking sounds coming from two doors down at 11 PM turned out to be a kid popping bubble wrap, presumably by jumping on it or hitting it with a hammer or something. It was just so random I would never have guessed it.) I don't usually complain about moderate noise; the walls are thin and poorly insulated and it can't be helped. It's when I can clearly hear conversations three doors down that I complain.

I should clarify something. I'm not going to move in and then immediately bitch about noise without waiting for provocation. I'm going to move in and be a decent neighbor, and if the noises I've heard complaints from other guys about reach a level which impedes my sleep, I will go over and ask the other kids to quiet down. If they don't, then after maybe half an hour, I'm going to ask again, this time with the threat of college rules and calling security. I don't particularly mind being seen as an ass by people who are being obnoxious themselves. "Unwritten rules" are just peer pressure and an excuse to misbehave, and my mommy says I shouldn't listen to peer pressure.

[Coidzor]

I should clarify something. I'm not going to move in and then immediately bitch about noise without waiting for provocation. I'm going to move in and be a decent neighbor, and if the noises I've heard complaints from other guys about reach a level which impedes my sleep, I will go over and ask the other kids to quiet down. If they don't, then after maybe half an hour, I'm going to ask again, this time with the threat of college rules and calling security. I don't particularly mind being seen as an ass by people who are being obnoxious themselves. "Unwritten rules" are just peer pressure and an excuse to misbehave, and my mommy says I shouldn't listen to peer pressure.

Yeah.... you were kinda painting yourself in a rather extreme light... :smalleek:

[THAC0]

8-8 is kinda excessive for quiet hours anyway. And that's coming from someone who sleeps from 8-5 and gets woken up by the slightest of noises. I wouldn't have a problem complaining between the hours of 10-6 though.

[noparlpf]

8-8 is kinda excessive for quiet hours anyway. And that's coming from someone who sleeps from 8-5 and gets woken up by the slightest of noises. I wouldn't have a problem complaining between the hours of 10-6 though.

I would consider 10 PM to 8 AM to be more fair, really. That leaves room for a range of (normal human) sleep schedules, assuming 7-8 hours a night, which I think is reasonable. (Whenever people laugh at my sleep habits, I laugh at how much less sleep they get.)
Personally I keep quiet after 8 PM, but I don't complain about noise until 10 PM when I go to bed.

[pendell]

"Unwritten rules" are just peer pressure and an excuse to misbehave, and my mommy says I shouldn't listen to peer pressure.


Say rather they are the oil that keeps the gears of a machine made of people running. Human customs and adaptations invariably outpace the written rules or laws -- just look at the field of technology.

Also -- humans DO misbehave. It's their common makeup. This is the underlying principle of Agile sofware development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development), which exist because printed project, schedules, and deadlines are invariably wrong and that it costs as much time and effort to keep the process paperwork updated as it does to do the actual work. People are more efficient and effective when they are able to minimize the paperwork and rules. That's true in any environment where people have to live and work together.

I also believe that simply ignoring peer pressure, simply because it's peer pressure is just as unwise as blindly obeying it. I would also say that , if you're trying to live in the same building with a group of people, it makes sense to pay attention to their common culture, considerations, and feelings than it does to simply ignore it as "peer pressure". It's all very well to defy peer pressure when it's pressure to do illegal drugs, but quite a different thing when the issue is trying to fit in to a new environment. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[noparlpf]

I dunno, if I went to Rome I'd stick to my 10-6 sleep schedule.
And it's not the general view in that dorm that noise is okay. A lot of people complain, but they're always told, "Well, that's just that dorm." So really it's just a couple dozen or so obnoxious people, and the administration doesn't deal with it.

[razark]

A lot of people complain... and the administration doesn't deal with it.
And your complaints will be different how?

[noparlpf]

I'm persistent. (Or annoying, depending on whose perspective this is.)

[pendell]

I dunno, if I went to Rome I'd stick to my 10-6 sleep schedule.
And it's not the general view in that dorm that noise is okay. A lot of people complain, but they're always told, "Well, that's just that dorm." So really it's just a couple dozen or so obnoxious people, and the administration doesn't deal with it.

AH. Well, in that case, the thing to do is get the other people together and start complaining as a group.

The administration can ignore one or two people, but when pretty much the entire dorm is complaining as a group, they have to pay more attention.

That's the thing about administrations in things like this -- the truth is, they would much rather you solve it yourselves or just go away. Getting them to actually do something takes persistent action by a lot of people.

Good luck!

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Tengu_temp]

Say rather they are the oil that keeps the gears of a machine made of people running. Human customs and adaptations invariably outpace the written rules or laws -- just look at the field of technology.

There is a big difference between an unwritten rule that makes stuff smoother or helps us function as decent human being (such as "add comments to your programming code" or "in America, always tip the waitress"), and one that was started by a bunch of frat boys so they could loudly party all night and not worry about students who are in the college to actually learn something and want to sleep at that time.

[pendell]

Correction. When I say "go to the administration as a group" there will be some prerequisites.

1) You will have to identify specific troublemakers.
2) You will have to show that you have already tried to address the problem directly and got no results. You will need documentation. Witnesses as well. If two or three people have all tried to go and all got the same result, and you present that documentation and witnesses to the administration, that oughta get 'em moving.

It takes a lot to get the admin involved in this sort of thing. Like a police officer in a domestic dispute, there's very little good that can come to the admin for interfering in a dorm dispute and no good outcomes. So they prefer to stay out of it unless the evidence that they need to act is overwhelming.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Coidzor]

a bunch of frat boys so they could loudly party all night and not worry about students who are in the college to actually learn something and want to sleep at that time.

That's quite a conclusion you're jumping to. :smallamused:

[Tengu_temp]

As someone who lived in several university dorms for a very long time (and still does), I have experience. The only difference is that there are no frat boys here because fraternities don't exist in Poland, but the type of person is the same.