10th level spells?

[Particle_Man]

Do any of the d20ish games go for 10th level spells? It would seem like a logical progression for the casters to get them at 19th (for wizard progression) or 20th (for sorcerer progression) class level. Not sure if it would be better to bump some 9th level spells up or just bring on the awesome with new 10th level spells. But has someone done this already?

[Elfinor]

There are 10th level (and higher) spell slots available in 3(.5)e with Improved Spell Capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) but they're useful only for metamagic, there are no '10th level spells' available. Epic spells mostly take the place of 10th+ level spells in 3(.5)e.

Forgotten Realms had some spells up to 12th level in 2e (only available in conjunction with Time Travel), but the goddess of magic banned all spells above 9th level. Elves still had access to 10th level spells until 3e. All the 10th level+ spells that I'm aware of exist within Netheril: Encyclopedia Arcana. There may be more, my knowledge of 2e is weak. Some of the 10th level+ spells have made the transition to 3e in the form of epic spells (see Player's Guide to Faerun for some examples).

I vaguely remember something about Dark Sun having 10th level spells in 2e?

If you're willing to wait, D&D Next (5e) will apparently have Vancian magic wizards & clerics with up to 10th level spells.

I don't know much outside of D&D at all, but I'm sure others do:smallbiggrin:

[panaikhan]

One third-party 2.X book I had listed 10th level spells.
They generally took days (or even weeks) to cast.
I think they were similar to the 'Epic' spell concept.

[Particle_Man]

Hmm. Well I think there was one system that used 20 levels of spells (Elements of Magic?), maybe I can go with that.

[dsmiles]

Palladium Fantasy (IIRC) used more than 9 levels of spells.

[Particle_Man]

But I am kinda looking for d20 stuff (as in OGL).

[Arros Winhadren]

Unless I'm mistaken, there's nothing stopping a Wizard from researching 10th level spells all on his own. There just aren't any 10th level spells printed.

[Particle_Man]

yeah but, pre-epic, how many 10th level spell slots would a wizard have after that private research? I was wondering if any d20 books tinkered with the 19th/20th levels of wizard to provide spell slots of 10th level for them.

[Lateral]

Unless I'm mistaken, there's nothing stopping a Wizard from researching 10th level spells all on his own. There just aren't any 10th level spells printed.
...The fact that nobody has 10th level spell slots pre-epic?

[TuggyNE]

...The fact that nobody has 10th level spell slots pre-epic?

Technically, I believe a venerable dragonwrought kobold sorcerer 18 could, by abusing the special true dragon exception for epic feats. Improved Spell Capacity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedSpellCapacity) only has a prerequisite of "Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class", which would be satisfied. (You can probably also throw in a fast-progression casting PrC for still more cheese.)

[Endarire]

An Ur-Priest10/Eunuch Warlock6 has a level 10 slot.

Why did spell levels go 1-9 and later 0-9? Someone thought it a good idea.

[TuggyNE]

An Ur-Priest10/Eunuch Warlock6 has a level 10 slot.

Never heard of that second class, where's it from?


Why did spell levels go 1-9 and later 0-9? Someone thought it a good idea.

As a computer programmer, I wholeheartedly support 0-9. :smalltongue:

[Agent 451]

It's from the 3.0 book Oriental Adventures.

[Particle_Man]

An Ur-Priest10/Eunuch Warlock6 has a level 10 slot.


Never heard of that second class, where's it from?


It's from the 3.0 book Oriental Adventures.

The implied prerequisite sounds . . . painful. And is it banned to female characters?

[Agent 451]

Yes. Unless your character is a ladyboy... good luck getting the DM to let that one fly.

[Jeraa]

The implied prerequisite sounds . . . painful. And is it banned to female characters?

Yes it is. Only males can become a Eunuch Warlock. And since you have to be a eunuch in the emperors service already (its another prerequisite of the class), its not like you are losing anything to become a eunuch warlock, as you would of lost it already.


Why did spell levels go 1-9 and later 0-9? Someone thought it a good idea.

Spells went level 1-9, as that was the order you learned them in. 1st level spells first, 2nd learned 2nd, etc.

0-level spells were introduced later, in an issue of Dragon Magazine. Rather then change the levels of every spell already in existence, they just decided to call them 0-level spells. Really, they should be 1st level spells, as they are the first spells any wizard learns.

[Calanon]

In my main group a while ago we were playing in Netheril (As Netherese Arcanist no less!) we used Epic Spellcrafting rules however we didn't have to perform the spellcraft check, pay XP for casting them, and the automatic 1 minute casting time became 1 round casting times.

Even went out of my way to cover what qualified as a 10th level spell or higher :smallbiggrin:


Spell level in 2nd edition | Spells DC in 3rd edition
10th | 0 - 300
11th | 301-500
12th | 501+

Impressed my DM so much that it actually become the normal definition for us to what is 10th+ :smallsmile:

We still play as those same characters everytime we meet up (in a little less then a year we went from level 1 to earning about 50 or so levels in exp... unfortunately we can't go beyond level 40 so meh)

I like the Netherese, built there entire society on the back of a near limitless supply of magic... Can't remember the picture but its of a guy that traveled from the past into the future to find out that the world was ruled by powerful Archwizards that prevented progress because they choose to not work together... the punchline was that drinking helped get over how much their society sucked...

Hmm... in the sense of Nostalgia I think I'll have another read through of Netheril: Empire of Magic

[Vixsor Lumin]

HADOKEN!! (http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs10/i/2006/085/b/3/HADOKEN_by_MikaiTarek.png)

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

As a computer programmer, I wholeheartedly support 0-9. :smalltongue:

Agreed.

As far as I know there are no 3.5 10th level spells pre-epic. But the extra slots of higher level are nice.

[Bogardan_Mage]

An Ur-Priest10/Eunuch Warlock6 has a level 10 slot.
And how are you managing to qualify for all that in 4 levels?

[Particle_Man]

As a computer programmer, I wholeheartedly support 0-9. :smalltongue:

Yeah but what about spell levels A - E then? :smallbiggrin:

[Frog Dragon]

And how are you managing to qualify for all that in 4 levels?
It seems to me that Eunuch Warlock 5 would suffice. As for meeting the "5th level arcane spells" requirement, you could try Alternative Source Spell shenaningans. Or just go Theurge.

Cleric 1/Wizard 4/Ur Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 8/Eunuch Warlock 5

At level 15, you cast ninth level divine spells and 6th level arcane spells. At your 20th level, you get 10th level slots.

[TuggyNE]

Yeah but what about spell levels A - E then? :smallbiggrin:

You mean A-F? :smalltongue:

Well, a level F spell would be completely off the charts, power-wise, so it's probably just as well those don't exist. (I imagine it as being something like Immortals Handbook, only more so.)

[Krotchrot]

Since the Epic Level Handbook has the Spell Seeds you can techincally create a 10th level spell. It would still be considered an Epic Spell though and you'd have to do quite a bit to get that Spellcraft Check pretty low. MMMmmmm Circle Casting.

[Particle_Man]

You mean A-F? :smalltongue:

Well, a level F spell would be completely off the charts, power-wise, so it's probably just as well those don't exist. (I imagine it as being something like Immortals Handbook, only more so.)

I thought with 0 level spells already allowed, that F level would be 0, so that E would be the "cap". I could have miscounted. :smallwink:

[Elfinor]

Oh yeah, Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved is a d20 system with 10th level spells. An example is Invoked Apocalypse, which requires a feat to learn and has a hefty backlash, which is explicitly capable of obliterating a small town+ from over 20 miles away. Spells are a bit weaker than 3.5: on first blush the power difference looks significant, however, there is a lot more flexibility with spell slots and templates/metamagic. Non-spellcasters are also given a hefty power boost.

It still doesn't follow the logical spell progression you've been asking about. The major spellcasting classes follow (more or less) the same progression as a 3.5 wizard, 10th level spells aren't gained until level 21.