[Pathfinder] No one expects the Inquisitor...to actually work

[13ones]

So a little background first. I've been reading up on Pathfinder classes lately due to the onset of a vast number of games arising next school year. I intend to join a few of these games, even the next year's tournament. From what I've heard of all the people who competed this year in the tournament there will be a lot of dedicated spell casters (Wizards, Oracles, Sorcerers) and that is where my real knowledge lies.

I'd like to be fairly unique and not just picking the class that everyone else is using. I'd rather not be just one of ten wizards so I was looking at my other options. I stumbled across the Inquisitor and I thought "Huh, now there is an interesting class..." but everyone I ask tells me it's probably one of the two worst classes in all of Pathfinder, and just doesn't work. I'd like to prove them wrong.

But I don't know how to build an Inquisitor. I have no sodding idea how it would work. I turn to you, those more experienced and less likely to try and talk me out of it. How would I make this character work?

[jaybird]

IIRC you can build a pretty good Inquisitor Archer, and it's a 2/3 caster, meaning it's definitely not weak. What level are you guys starting at? The medium casters (Alchemist, Magus, Inquisitor, Bard, Summoner) are all very powerful choices in the medium levels, before full casting's highest level spells come into play.

The basis of the Inquisitor Archer is to take Wis as your highest stat and get a Guided composite longbow for Wis to hit/damage. Your Wis mod also applies to initiative, so there's really no reason to want anything other then Str/Con/Wis. If you're planning on fighting full casters, Purity is a good Judgement to pick up, as it bumps up your saves.

[Bovine Colonel]

How do the tournaments work? Are they duels, tag-team battles, competitions to see who lasts the longest against hordes of monsters?

Also, what level are you at?

And what are people saying the other weakest class is?

EDIT: This is relevant.

Are you stressed about spending your point buy, is the gold for magic to increase your statistics stretched too thin?
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[13ones]

Working off of the rules of this year it would be divided into 4/8/12/16 and 20th levels. It's a standard 25 point buy system. If that helps anything at all.

[13ones]

So the way the tournament works is like this.

There are multiple little modular little campaigns at the 4th/8th/12th/16th and 20th levels. They are all a continuing story line with rotating groups, usually as balanced as possible.

There is a basic 25 point buy system with more ability points with every module.All third party material is 'banned'.

Edit: Also, people are saying Rogues are the weakest class since they are just fundamentally broken outside of the Knife Master alternate feature.

[jaybird]

4, 8, and 12 would all be suitable levels for an Inquisitor, though 4 may be a bit too low. 16 gets into 8th level spells, many of which you'll just have no answer to.

In terms of race, Dwarves make excellent Inquisitor Archers, with bonuses to Con and Wis, the two most important stats for you. Dump Int and Cha, max out Wis, pick up Dex 13 for ranged feats, and get a decent Str. Rapid Shot/Clustered Shot/Deadly Aim For The Win. You won't be able to get Manyshot as it requires Dex 17, unless you want to dip Zen Archer Monk for the feats (I think they don't have prereqs?). Pick up the +1 to hit Judgement to compensate for the penalties on your to hit rolls from Rapid Shot and Deadly Aim.

[Bhaakon]

I find it to be top-notch "jack of all trades" class. If you want a character than can contribute something useful in just about any situation without being a game-breaking full caster, then this is probably your class.

That being said, it doesn't have a ton of killer high-op combos, even when compared to other partial casters. Inquisitors just don't have the tools to end encounters on their own like a well-built crit-fishing magus or an alchemist spamming confusion bombs might. That can be a flaw or a feature, depending on your group's style.



Edit: Also, people are saying Rogues are the weakest class since they are just fundamentally broken outside of the Knife Master alternate feature.

How so? Granted, it takes some planning and cooperation from group members for a rogue to reach its potential in a fight, but it's still got the highest damage potential (uber-chargers aside) and out of combat utility of all the mundane classes.

[jaybird]

That being said, it doesn't have a ton of killer high-op combos, even when compared to other partial casters. Inquisitors just don't have the tools to end encounters on their own like a well-built crit-fishing magus or an alchemist spamming confusion bombs might. That can be a flaw or a feature, depending on your group's style.


It's a tournament, so that doesn't matter :smalltongue:

However, it's got one pretty sick ability, especially if you're planning on fighting a lot of arcane casters.

Take the Inquisition ACF and pick the Oblivion Inquisition. An Oblivion Inquisitor 8 gets Feeblemind as a gaze attack 1/day for 1d4 rounds, DC=10+half Inquisitor level+Wis mod. Make every arcane caster's player CRY.

[Big Fau]

How so? Granted, it takes some planning and cooperation from group members for a rogue to reach its potential in a fight, but it's still got the highest damage potential (uber-chargers aside) and out of combat utility of all the mundane classes.

PF-only Rogues got hit with a nerf bat the size of Pluto, and then given a cookie to compensate.

3.P Rogues still got hit, but with a pillow. And then stole the PF-only Rogue's cookie.

[Bhaakon]

PF-only Rogues got hit with a nerf bat the size of Pluto, and then given a cookie to compensate.

3.P Rogues still got hit, but with a pillow. And then stole the PF-only Rogue's cookie.

They still sneak attack when flanking, they can now hit more stuff with their sneak attack, and they're still very useful outside of combat (at least until full casting starts completely usurping everyone). Even if they've lost a trick or two from 3.5, that still leaves them as king of the mundanes and neither irreparably broken nor useless.

[CTrees]

[/SPOILER]
Edit: Also, people are saying Rogues are the weakest class since they are just fundamentally broken outside of the Knife Master alternate feature.

I'd just like to point out Sniper Goggles. Also, Stealthy Sniper (alternately, a dip of Shadowdancer) and every 10' of distance effectively giving you a +1 bonus to Stealth. Just stay two hundred feet away and liberally apply sneak attack damage.

And... yep, this isn't the first time I've forgotten that Pathfinder killed ranged rogues. Because it's stupid, not what I'm used to, and not how my group plays. Whoops!

Only thing I can figure is... what defines combat ending? If you initiate a surprise round while hidden, get your sneak, then retreat enough to end combat before restarting... but I dominant even know if that IS defined.

[Blisstake]

PF-only Rogues got hit with a nerf bat the size of Pluto, and then given a cookie to compensate.

3.P Rogues still got hit, but with a pillow. And then stole the PF-only Rogue's cookie.

Spoilered for off-topic

For the majority of players (at least, in my experiences), Pathfinder rogues have been vastly improved. While it's undeniably true that an optimizer could get more out of a 3.5 rogue, I really don't think these kind of players are the target audience for the game system. I play with players who don't know about the ACF's that get expanded sneak attack in 3.5, or the players who know all the magic item compendium stuff to nab, or the myriad of classes that can cheese up your sneak attack to rididuclous levels, and based on my experiences, I'm willing to bet there are more players who don't know about these than do. These are the kind of players who benefit from the Pathfinder rogue, and I believe the type of players who Pathfinder was intended for.



Anyway, as much as I usually like to defend Pathfinder, I think Inquisitor is a poorly-designed class. The growth of their judgement class feature is absolutely ridiculous, from being able to get a measly +1 to hit or damage for a single battle, to being able to add +5 to +8 to three different statistics in pretty much every battle.

If you get some control over what level you start at, I suggest trying to be at least level 5, when you get bane. With bane and judgement bonuses to damage, you want to get as many attacks as possible to best take advantage of all the extra damage you get per attack. There are two main ways to do this: archery and two-weapon fighting (the latter of which requires the feat in UC that allows you to add bane to both weapons). I prefer archery, as you pretty much always get to make a full attack, and you get to add extra attacks with Manyshot and Rapidshot.

For feats you want the above two, as well as PB shot and Precise shot (so you can hit things), Clustered Shots (DR is a bitch), and maybe Deadly aim (it's not as necesary, since you're getting plenty of damage anyway). For your domain/inquisition, I recommend the travel domain for the fun teleportation spells and dimension hopping. For spell selection, look for buffs, especially ones that add attack and damage, to improve your already impressive damage output.

Have fun!

[Bhaakon]

I'd just like to point out Sniper Goggles. Also, Stealthy Sniper (alternately, a dip of Shadowdancer) and every 10' of distance effectively giving you a +1 bonus to Stealth. Just stay two hundred feet away and liberally apply sneak attack damage.

Unfortunately, one thing PF did pretty much destroy is ranged rogues. There's no way for a ranged attacker to flank, and a very strict reading of RAW would indicate that using the stealth ability only buys you sneak attacks in the surprise round (the devs neglected to specify that hiding denies your opponents their Dex to AC, nor did they make a specific provision in the SA description for attacking while hidden, so the only way hiding can help you is by letting you act in the surprise round when your enemies are flat-footed).

[13ones]

So for doing a 25 point buy for this tournament, how would I spread my skills out? Say I pick the rather stable human as a race and get that +2 to one attribute, how would I spread it out?

[Bhaakon]

Here's a handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19N7y6cKFLAr2KMMiKc8A1XG6R4iOmwaNFS7iAs17zyU/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1) on building an inquisitor.

[grarrrg]

The Inquisitor is the perfect example of a Jack-of-all-Trades.
It can do (almost) anything decently, but it is the best at nothing.

Every class has its niche where it preforms best. The Inquisitor's niche is when the party lacks the preferred class.
This is probably where your groups idea of it being a "weak" class comes into play.
Need a Beatstick? Inquisitor is not the best choice.
Need a Caster? Inquisitor is not the best choice.
Need a Tank? Inquisitor is not the best choice.
Need a Skill-Monkey? Inquisitor is not the best choice. (although your group also has a hate-on for Rogues, so...).




A more rules friendly replacement for Guided Weapons:
Dip Cleric for 1 level, choose your Deity carefully, Favored Weapon and allowed Domains/Inquisitions are VERY important. (note: Cleric levels stack for your Inquisitor Domain/Inquisition)
I recommend either the Crusader (bonus feat) or Theologian (+2 level for Domain powers) archetypes.
The main thing you are here for is Channel Energy.
Grab the Channel Smite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/channel-smite-combat) feat.
Now take the Guided Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/-guided-hand) feat.

Now you have 2 options. Forget about using Channel Energy, OR grab the Channeling Scourge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/channeling-scourge) feat, which let's you stack Cleric/Inquisitor levels for Channel dice.


Purity is a good Judgement to pick up


Pick up the +1 to hit Judgement to compensate for

You appear to be slightly confused on how Judgements work.

An Inquisitor automatically has access to all Judgements at all times.
He is only limited by Encounters per Day and number of Judgements in effect at the same time.

[13ones]

Here's a handbook (https://docs.google.com/document/d/19N7y6cKFLAr2KMMiKc8A1XG6R4iOmwaNFS7iAs17zyU/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1) on building an inquisitor.

Wow, that's really useful. Got any other guides like these?

[Bhaakon]

Yes, Novawurmson has gathered together a nice index of them here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233029).

[Blisstake]

Oh, hey, that handbook is fixed. Last time I saw it, it abruptly switched to a paladin guide halfway through :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

IIRC, inquisitors can either be intimidating machines or bluffbots. I can't recall if there's anything you could actually *do* with that, mind...

[Hylas]

IIRC, inquisitors can either be intimidating machines or bluffbots. I can't recall if there's anything you could actually *do* with that, mind...

Razzle-Dazzle everyone, of course! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat)

I like that cleric dip to get the wis bonus to attack and damage. Very nice, especially for humans.

Keep in mind that, as far as teamwork feats go, there are very few options for a ranged weapon Inquisitor. It's quite frustrating because I'd happily be one if I could.

[Coidzor]

Razzle-Dazzle everyone, of course! (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dazzling-display-combat)

I like that cleric dip to get the wis bonus to attack and damage. Very nice, especially for humans.

Keep in mind that, as far as teamwork feats go, there are very few options for a ranged weapon Inquisitor. It's quite frustrating because I'd happily be one if I could.

It's an OK debuff, but the problem is that one has to have a very particular combination of things in order to do anything but put a -2 on people.

Or just take the antagonize (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/antagonize)feat, which people rage over regularly, or so I hear, as it is one of the most effective ways of dealing with an archer, non-gishy caster, or flying creature that relies on kiting around.

[Blisstake]

That's the one weakness, but their overall power definitely makes up for getting a class feature that they won't use too often. (Also, Enfilading Fire looks like it serves no other purpose than to be taken by archer inquisitors)

There are also a few nice archetypes that replace those with cooler things.

[13ones]

thanks guys, you've been a real help.