Elric the Kinslayer vs Skilgannon the Damned

[Bastian Weaver]

Imagine for a moment that these two dark swordsmen meet somewhere in the multiverse. Elric of Melnibone, Kinslayer, Prince of Ruins, Womanslayer - the albino prince of a non-human race, the last of his kind, warrior of Chaos, cursed with the runesword known as Stormbringer.
And Olek Skilgannon, the Damned, descendant of a long line of warriors, carrier of demonic blades - the Swords of Day and Night.
Both of them want to possess an object of great importance. Let's say it's an amulet with enough power to resurrect a dead woman - a possibility for Elric to bring back his sweet Cymoril, or for Skilgannon to fulfill his dream and meet his wife once again. The only way to decide who will possess the amulet is through combat.
Let us state that this is a one on one fight. No Arioch, no Druss the Legend, no friends from elemental planes and no witch-queens. Just the two men - and their blades. To make it (at least seemingly) even, let's throw in the other runesword - the Mournblade, sister blade of Stormbringer.
Elric is a powerful sorcerer, but his magic takes time and comes with a heavy price. Psysically, he's very weak, but the runeswords give him unnatural strength.
Skilgannon, on the other hand, is very fast and agile.
Both are skilled in swordplay, and both possess weapons that have minds of their own.
Who would win? Who would lose?

[Gensh]

Imagine for a moment that these two dark swordsmen meet somewhere in the multiverse. Elric of Melnibone, Kinslayer, Prince of Ruins, Womanslayer - the albino prince of a non-human race, the last of his kind, warrior of Chaos, cursed with the runesword known as Stormbringer.
And Olek Skilgannon, the Damned, descendant of a long line of warriors, carrier of demonic blades - the Swords of Day and Night.
Both of them want to possess an object of great importance. Let's say it's an amulet with enough power to resurrect a dead woman - a possibility for Elric to bring back his sweet Cymoril, or for Skilgannon to fulfill his dream and meet his wife once again. The only way to decide who will possess the amulet is through combat.
Let us state that this is a one on one fight. No Arioch, no Druss the Legend, no friends from elemental planes and no witch-queens. Just the two men - and their blades. To make it (at least seemingly) even, let's throw in the other runesword - the Mournblade, sister blade of Stormbringer.
Elric is a powerful sorcerer, but his magic takes time and comes with a heavy price. Psysically, he's very weak, but the runeswords give him unnatural strength.
Skilgannon, on the other hand, is very fast and agile.
Both are skilled in swordplay, and both possess weapons that have minds of their own.
Who would win? Who would lose?

You know, I've no idea who the latter character is, but my money would be on Stormbringer eating everyone again. :smallamused:

[Anteros]

Well, Skilgannon is my favorite character in all of fiction...but he's basically just a normal human, with really powerful swords. (Albeit for a "normal human" in his setting he's still the type of person who can face 100 enemies at once and win.)

I'm not familiar with Elric. How powerful is he?

[Gensh]

I'm not familiar with Elric. How powerful is he?

He waffles between killing gods and struggling to do anything because of his crippling weakness. If he's on his meds, then he's physically in excellent condition, in addition to being a powerful summoner. If he's killed someone with Stormbringer recently, then he also has superhuman strength and stamina. The books aren't as clear about it as they could be, so I could be wrong but being cut by Stormbringer - even slightly - is instant death.

[Traab]

Too bad it isnt Druss instead. He has his own cursed weapon. But then again, if it WAS elric versus druss, it would end in a victory for druss, at worst a mutual kill. You cannot kill druss the legend without accepting the fact that you will die as well. Skilgannon is awesome, I admit it, but he isnt a superhuman fighter, he is basically just the peak of ability according to human standards. His swords arent even that useful, they drive a person to insane bloodlust, woohoo.

[Anteros]

Too bad it isnt Druss instead. He has his own cursed weapon. But then again, if it WAS elric versus druss, it would end in a victory for druss, at worst a mutual kill. You cannot kill druss the legend without accepting the fact that you will die as well. Skilgannon is awesome, I admit it, but he isnt a superhuman fighter, he is basically just the peak of ability according to human standards. His swords arent even that useful, they drive a person to insane bloodlust, woohoo.

They do more than that. That's just a side effect, not the main benefit. It's stated numerous times in the books that he's much deadlier with those blades than any other set.

[Bastian Weaver]

I've though about Elric vs Druss, but for me, it's just too obvious that Druss wins. I like that old man, I really do.
Now, about these two swordsmen... Elric is formidable, true. His weakness is that he's dependant on Stormbringer's power - whenever he has to fight someone or something that his sword cannot use as a power source, he's put at severe disadvantage.
Now, I don't really remember about someone being just wounded by Stormbringer - usually Elric's attacks are deadly. I don't think it's because every wound delivered by the runesword is lethal - that's the ability of another version of the Black Sword. Stormbringer's schtick is about drinking souls.
So if both Elric and Skilgannon had some companions, that would actually give Elric an advantage, since he gets stronger from killing people. One on one, though... if he doesn't kill Olek quickly, he would start getting tired and weakening faster than Skilgannon.
Now that I think of it - remember Decado the Ice Slayer? Skilgannon's relative (his grandson or something, I think) who was so fast in combat, he was able to defeat a telepath who could read his mind and knew all his moves in advance but just COULDN'T react in time?
Olek probably isn't as good, but with the swords enhancing his abilities... hmm...

[dehro]

oooh..I' like this one.

+1 for Druss being pretty much the definition of awesomeness.

I'm thinking that much depends on what they know of one another. if Skillgannon knows that the source of the other's power lies in the sword, then he'd chop his hand off sooner than the other could react... and bye bye to Stormbringer enhancements.
clear win for the Damned.
if they didn't know about one another's powers and conditions...I'm thinking that the Damned would still be favourite in a fight..because he's just that good a swordsman, whereas Elric comes as a package, sword skills are integrated by sorcerous abilities...and, having read the books ages ago, I can't remember just how quick those abilities are to raise. Anything less than instantaneous magic would probably fail to catch up with the Damned's speed and technique.
...but it would be a much closer fight.

one that has puzzled me for some time is Druss Vs Skillgannon.
then I have decided that Druss would win..and not just because Gemmell would never have allowed anyone to beat Druss.
I'm thinking skillgannon would plunge his blades in Druss..expect him to collapse and die.. and then take an axe to the face when Druss demonstrates just how resilient he really is.

[Bastian Weaver]

My favorite Druss battle episode was his last encounter with general Bodasen. Druss was fighting against ventrian soldiers. Bodasen, having just demonstrated he's a very skilled swordsman, attacked him from the dark. Druss killed him before recognizing who that was. Just like that.

Elric is depicted as a skilled warrior even without his malevolent blade. Before finding Stormbringer, he fights against human invaders, and later against his cousin's troops. However, without his sorcery and his sword, he's just that - a skilled warrior. Skilgannon is a legend. While his swords might be less powerful than Stormbringer and Mournblade, his own fighting prowess seems to be higher than Elric's.

[Omergideon]

Personally I don't think Druss gets more awesome than his death scene. If you have to die, you die like a monster and convince the enemy that you could still get up at any time.


And I cannot comment on Skilgannon vs Elric too directly. But Decado was indeed the one able to move so fast he could take out a trained, buffed by his friends mindreading commando. Without much trouble. The ressurected Decado who Skilgannon fights is probably just as good, and has magic weapons that enhance the strength, speed and skill of the user. Now he is stated by Skilgannon to be better than he is, and to have refused more than 1 killing blow in their duel in TSONaD. But Skilgannon was able to keep up with him pretty effectively throughout the battle.


And as a note on the weapons, with them Skilgannon as an old (60+?) man was able to fight in a battle like any other dude. Not at his best, but still pretty well. They clearly had a potent, if subtle, effect.

[Anteros]

Personally I don't think Druss gets more awesome than his death scene. If you have to die, you die like a monster and convince the enemy that you could still get up at any time.


And I cannot comment on Skilgannon vs Elric too directly. But Decado was indeed the one able to move so fast he could take out a trained, buffed by his friends mindreading commando. Without much trouble. The ressurected Decado who Skilgannon fights is probably just as good, and has magic weapons that enhance the strength, speed and skill of the user. Now he is stated by Skilgannon to be better than he is, and to have refused more than 1 killing blow in their duel in TSONaD. But Skilgannon was able to keep up with him pretty effectively throughout the battle.


And as a note on the weapons, with them Skilgannon as an old (60+?) man was able to fight in a battle like any other dude. Not at his best, but still pretty well. They clearly had a potent, if subtle, effect.

Skilgannon did say that...however, Decado had just been mortally wounded by a creature who Skilgannon was able to easily slay. So maybe Decado was better, and maybe not.

On Skilgannon vs Druss, I think both would die. Neither is the type to take a deathblow without killing the person giving it, and both have styles that would leave them open to the other.

[Traab]

Personally I don't think Druss gets more awesome than his death scene. If you have to die, you die like a monster and convince the enemy that you could still get up at any time.


And I cannot comment on Skilgannon vs Elric too directly. But Decado was indeed the one able to move so fast he could take out a trained, buffed by his friends mindreading commando. Without much trouble. The ressurected Decado who Skilgannon fights is probably just as good, and has magic weapons that enhance the strength, speed and skill of the user. Now he is stated by Skilgannon to be better than he is, and to have refused more than 1 killing blow in their duel in TSONaD. But Skilgannon was able to keep up with him pretty effectively throughout the battle.


And as a note on the weapons, with them Skilgannon as an old (60+?) man was able to fight in a battle like any other dude. Not at his best, but still pretty well. They clearly had a potent, if subtle, effect.

Agreed with the druss death scene. Dude was 60+ years old, he MARCHES god only knows how many miles to get to a citadel, where he proceeds to beat the hell out of anyone who annoys him, and trains the rest. He then stands at the front line of every days worth of battle slaughtering dozens. He proceeds to face the attacking tribes champion, killing him but taking a nasty wound to the back. Said wound was poisoned, so druss, a 60+ year old man with an axe that probably weighed 40 pounds, he has bad knees, a bad back, arthritis, and a whole host of other old people issues, is rotting to death from gangrene with a back wound that hurt like hell with every movement he made, forces himself to his feet, staggers out to the gate to fight, and faces 10 tribesmen in battle, killing I think half of them before finally getting stabbed by the rest and killed. And, as you said, they still acted like they expected him to stand back up and start fighting some more.

What made him awesome was the fact that he was a mortal man. He had no superpowers, he didnt have the blessings of a god or demon, he just had an unbreakable will, and a love for conflict. His axe was possessed by a demon that drives everyone who uses it into a bloodthirsty frenzy, making them pure monsters. Other than that, the only thing it ever did for him that was special was it blocked a magical attack once, bouncing a nasty fireball back to its caster and killing him. Hell, he exorcised the damn demon just by sheer force of will, making his axe mostly normal. Didnt slow him down in the slightest.

[Axolotl]

Where's the secong guy from? In most fantasy vs my money would be on Elric but I've never heard of Skilgannon. What can he do that makes him a threat?

[Anteros]

Where's the secong guy from? In most fantasy vs my money would be on Elric but I've never heard of Skilgannon. What can he do that makes him a threat?

Probably the best non super human swordsman in fiction that I know of. Of course, this is entirely subjective.

[Bastian Weaver]

David Gemmell's Drenai books, namely, White Wolf and Swords of Night and Day. Master swordsman possessing two magic blades.

[Gensh]

White Wolf

Is that why this VS came up? :smalltongue:

Again, I don't know anything about that series, but if the enemy is just a mortal, no matter how talented, I don't particularly see Elric losing, even without any summoning (which he can do rather easily). Despite his physical weakness (which is negated by drugs most of the time in the later books), he is an expert swordsman and tactician, trained by the greatest practitioners in a several thousand year old empire - the best of the best. And even should he still be overwhelmed, his sword is in fact a demon-god who just enjoys being a sword and will drag his body around and help in the fight. As I've said, no matter who wins, Stormbringer will kill everyone in the end and then trololol into space.

[Traab]

Is that why this VS came up? :smalltongue:

Again, I don't know anything about that series, but if the enemy is just a mortal, no matter how talented, I don't particularly see Elric losing, even without any summoning (which he can do rather easily). Despite his physical weakness (which is negated by drugs most of the time in the later books), he is an expert swordsman and tactician, trained by the greatest practitioners in a several thousand year old empire - the best of the best. And even should he still be overwhelmed, his sword is in fact a demon-god who just enjoys being a sword and will drag his body around and help in the fight. As I've said, no matter who wins, Stormbringer will kill everyone in the end and then trololol into space.

Skilgannon was the son of a nobleman in a long lived empire. He was trained by the best to BE the best, and he succeeded in spades. He is a master tactician, a highly respected general, a king, and a swordsman who passed down into legend for all of the amazing things he has done. He is at the peak of physical ability. His swords are also demonically possessed, which may cause an interesting conflict if his swords met elrics sword. The magic thing may cause issues, but as I am unfamiliar with elirc I cant say for sure how much trouble.

[Axolotl]

Probably the best non super human swordsman in fiction that I know of. Of course, this is entirely subjective.If he's non-super how exactly is he even a speedbumb to Elric with Stormbringer? I mean even ignoreing all Elric's magic, summoning, pacts, divine help and other assorted tricks he was able to fight an army of gods at the end.

Also does he have his own heavy metal song?

[Traab]

If he's non-super how exactly is he even a speedbumb to Elric with Stormbringer? I mean even ignoreing all Elric's magic, summoning, pacts, divine help and other assorted tricks he was able to fight an army of gods at the end.

Also does he have his own heavy metal song?

Meh, he has fought gigantic demonic creatures, wizards, and other such mystics, and faced off against the most dangerous beings his world had to offer, and he has killed them all. One of the things you have to understand about gemmels books in this world are that they seem to be big on showing the victory of men over whatever hurdles, natural, or supernatural, that life can throw at them. His heroes face demonically possessed weapons, mind reading warriors, demon summoning sorcerers, entire armies, and the temptation to use their abilities for evil or selfish gain. The story then shows how strength of character, determination, and sheer will can be used to turn the tide of just about any situation.

Often these heroes will have with them some lesser man, a thief, or a coward, whatever, and we get to see how over the course of the story they grow into being a hero themselves. Sort of a way to say, "see? you dont have to be a sexy shoeless god of war to be a hero, anyone can do it if they dare to do the right thing!"

[Bastian Weaver]

What Traab said. Every word of it.


Is that why this VS came up? :smalltongue:



:smallbiggrin: Good point. But no, not because of that. Just because they're both swordsmen with tragic past and demonic swords. And also, because I love Gemmell's books.

[Axolotl]

Meh, he has fought gigantic demonic creatures, wizards, and other such mystics, and faced off against the most dangerous beings his world had to offer, and he has killed them all. One of the things you have to understand about gemmels books in this world are that they seem to be big on showing the victory of men over whatever hurdles, natural, or supernatural, that life can throw at them. His heroes face demonically possessed weapons, mind reading warriors, demon summoning sorcerers, entire armies, and the temptation to use their abilities for evil or selfish gain. The story then shows how strength of character, determination, and sheer will can be used to turn the tide of just about any situation.

Often these heroes will have with them some lesser man, a thief, or a coward, whatever, and we get to see how over the course of the story they grow into being a hero themselves. Sort of a way to say, "see? you dont have to be a sexy shoeless god of war to be a hero, anyone can do it if they dare to do the right thing!"Yeah but what actual capabilities does he haqve that could stop Elric from say summoning a bunch of wind lords to rip him to pieces? I mean this is a versus thread right?

Also the main theme of Elric is largely the exact opposite of that, he's pretty much unstoppable and has a vast array of magic at his disposal but I could probably count the number of times he actually succeds at what he aims to do on one hand.

[comicshorse]

Yeah but what actual capabilities does he haqve that could stop Elric from say summoning a bunch of wind lords to rip him to pieces? I mean this is a versus thread right?



Hit him before he finishes the chant ? It says that the chants are only part of the magic Elric also needs to concentrate to do magic which means he isn't going to be able to concentrate on not being gutted. There's a reason he never tries magic when opponents are near him.
That said I still give this to Elric, Stormbringer is an unbeatable edge which can drain a mans life from a slight wound and kills gods.

[Bastian Weaver]

A versus thead, yes, but I've specifically noted that it's about Elric and Skilgannon having a duel, without any allies (because Skilgannon has some supernatural friends, too, though not as cinematic as Elric). It's not about "Sorcerer against fighter", it's "swordsman against swordsman".
And yes, even when Elric wins it rarely makes him happy. He's a sad, sad Prince of Ruins.

[Omergideon]

A Said wound was poisoned, so druss, a 60+ year old man with an axe that probably weighed 40 pounds, he has bad knees, a bad back, arthritis, and a whole host of other old people issues, is rotting to death from gangrene with a back wound that hurt like hell with every movement he made, forces himself to his feet, staggers out to the gate to fight, and faces 10 tribesmen in battle, killing I think half of them before finally getting stabbed by the rest and killed. And, as you said, they still acted like they expected him to stand back up and start fighting some more.

Oh no he was not stabbed to death. His last actions alive are, in order...
1) Shakily march to battle to buy time for the retreating army nigh on alone shilst poisoned
2) Kill a very large number (perhaps a dozen easily) of enemy troopers in HtH whilst actively dying of said poisons
3) Eventually collapse as his heart is almost not beating.
4) Enemy herald who Druss taunted weeks before comes to mock Druss. Druss throws his axe into the mans head killing him
5) Walks over to the dead man to retrieve his axe
6) Enemy General comes to help him retrieve it and speaks nicely (mentioning he hated the fact his champ used poison)
7) Druss says "Laddie, if I had another ounce of strength I would cut you down" to enemy general and dies.
Even more badass than you remembered. The man was a beast, and matched the prowess of every living legend of history he met and then some. Hell the man spent a millenia wandering around HELL itself to help people who got killed in various magical experiments.


And to put Skilgannons skill in perspective, at one point he has a "firendly" duel with another Soldier. Said soldier is in the prime of life, young fit, and had recently won the swordmanship contests of his country, one of the most military ones in the world at the time. Said Soldier was good. Skilgannon schooled him so easily he did not even work up a sweat.

Though one effect of Druss' axe when magic, and probably the swords Skilgannon has, is that as demon possessed weapons they can protect the wielder from magic of the obvious (fireball) or less obvious type. Such weapons are used to kill demons and spirit beings more than once in the Drenai stories.

[Bastian Weaver]

Okay... now we really need a Druss Appreciation Thread.
Lentrian red, anyone?

[Anteros]

Skilgannon was the son of a nobleman in a long lived empire. He was trained by the best to BE the best, and he succeeded in spades. He is a master tactician, a highly respected general, a king, and a swordsman who passed down into legend for all of the amazing things he has done. He is at the peak of physical ability. His swords are also demonically possessed, which may cause an interesting conflict if his swords met elrics sword. The magic thing may cause issues, but as I am unfamiliar with elirc I cant say for sure how much trouble.

I don't remember Olek ever becoming a king.

Oh no he was not stabbed to death. His last actions alive are, in order...
1) Shakily march to battle to buy time for the retreating army nigh on alone shilst poisoned
2) Kill a very large number (perhaps a dozen easily) of enemy troopers in HtH whilst actively dying of said poisons
3) Eventually collapse as his heart is almost not beating.
4) Enemy herald who Druss taunted weeks before comes to mock Druss. Druss throws his axe into the mans head killing him
5) Walks over to the dead man to retrieve his axe
6) Enemy General comes to help him retrieve it and speaks nicely (mentioning he hated the fact his champ used poison)
7) Druss says "Laddie, if I had another ounce of strength I would cut you down" to enemy general and dies.
Even more badass than you remembered. The man was a beast, and matched the prowess of every living legend of history he met and then some. Hell the man spent a millenia wandering around HELL itself to help people who got killed in various magical experiments.


And to put Skilgannons skill in perspective, at one point he has a "firendly" duel with another Soldier. Said soldier is in the prime of life, young fit, and had recently won the swordmanship contests of his country, one of the most military ones in the world at the time. Said Soldier was good. Skilgannon schooled him so easily he did not even work up a sweat.

Though one effect of Druss' axe when magic, and probably the swords Skilgannon has, is that as demon possessed weapons they can protect the wielder from magic of the obvious (fireball) or less obvious type. Such weapons are used to kill demons and spirit beings more than once in the Drenai stories.


This is a good point too. Skilgannon literally spent 2000? (my memory is a bit hazy on the exact time elapsed.) years in hell, because he didn't believe he was a good enough man to deserve heaven. He killed everything that attacked him in this time...and in the Drenai saga, hell is portrayed as a nearly constant conflict against demons and evil men. Then he came back to life, destroyed an immortal witch queen (who was also his lover) and led a few hundred soldiers into battle, successfully defeating her evil imperial army which was composed of elite soldiers and monsters. The guy is no joke.

[Traab]

I don't remember Olek ever becoming a king.



This is a good point too. Skilgannon literally spent 2000? (my memory is a bit hazy on the exact time elapsed.) years in hell, because he didn't believe he was a good enough man to deserve heaven. He killed everything that attacked him in this time...and in the Drenai saga, hell is portrayed as a nearly constant conflict against demons and evil men. Then he came back to life, destroyed an immortal witch queen (who was also his lover) and led a few hundred soldiers into battle, successfully defeating her evil imperial army which was composed of elite soldiers and monsters. The guy is no joke.

Iirc, it only was covered in his history in the story that brought him back to life. When talking about his first death I think he was a king, but I may be wrong, its been so long. And yeah, I remember druss' death now. He threw the axe and killed "lardbelly" the nadir herald that mouthed off to him, then demanded one of the other nadir bring him back his axe.

Hell, even his FUNERAL was badass! The enemy troops took his body, and had a huge celebration style funeral, all to honor Druss as the legendary demigod of war that he was. The defenders were even able to hop the wall, and join in on the feast with the enemy so they could say their goodbyes then as well. Think about that, he was such a badass warrior that his funeral was cause for a truce so BOTH SIDES could honor him. These guys had been killing each other for weeks, and they just sit down with each other, get drunk, eat good food, have a good time, and send off druss to the afterlife on a huge funeral pyre. How freaking awesome do you have to be to be able to cause something like that? Oh, and I think that was when the whole, "Even now my men glance in fear at the pyre, as if expecting to see druss stand back up and start killing again" line Ulric gave off. Thats just even more bonus badass points. You have been dead for the last 12 hours or so, everyone can see it, but you are so much larger than life that even 12 hours dead, people are scared you might come back to life just to kill them.

[Anteros]

Iirc, it only was covered in his history in the story that brought him back to life. When talking about his first death I think he was a king, but I may be wrong, its been so long. And yeah, I remember druss' death now. He threw the axe and killed "lardbelly" the nadir herald that mouthed off to him, then demanded one of the other nadir bring him back his axe.

Hell, even his FUNERAL was badass! The enemy troops took his body, and had a huge celebration style funeral, all to honor Druss as the legendary demigod of war that he was. The defenders were even able to hop the wall, and join in on the feast with the enemy so they could say their goodbyes then as well. Think about that, he was such a badass warrior that his funeral was cause for a truce so BOTH SIDES could honor him. These guys had been killing each other for weeks, and they just sit down with each other, get drunk, eat good food, have a good time, and send off druss to the afterlife on a huge funeral pyre. How freaking awesome do you have to be to be able to cause something like that? Oh, and I think that was when the whole, "Even now my men glance in fear at the pyre, as if expecting to see druss stand back up and start killing again" line Ulric gave off. Thats just even more bonus badass points. You have been dead for the last 12 hours or so, everyone can see it, but you are so much larger than life that even 12 hours dead, people are scared you might come back to life just to kill them.

To be fair, he did come back to life one day...so that's not an entirely misplaced fear. Also, Skilgannon was a general in the battle where he first died, not a king. The old histories record him as being a king, but they also recorded a lot of non-factual information, like him riding a pegasus (a creature which doesn't actually exist in the Drenai universe) or other such nonsense, so it's hardly reliable. He did have many opportunities to become a ruler, but as far as I remember, he turned them all down.

[Dexam]

Now that I think of it - remember Decado the Ice Slayer? Skilgannon's relative (his grandson or something, I think) who was so fast in combat, he was able to defeat a telepath who could read his mind and knew all his moves in advance but just COULDN'T react in time?
Olek probably isn't as good, but with the swords enhancing his abilities... hmm...

Decado the Ice Killer was Olek's great-grandson (the naming convention was Skilgannon/Decado/Skilgannon/Decado/etc...).

Decado was a latent psychic, so even thought the Brother of the Thirty Decado was fighting could read his mind and moves in advance, he was still reacting to Decado who was fighting on an instinctive (yet highly trained) level to threats he wasn't even aware of yet.


one that has puzzled me for some time is Druss Vs Skillgannon.
then I have decided that Druss would win..and not just because Gemmell would never have allowed anyone to beat Druss.
I'm thinking skillgannon would plunge his blades in Druss..expect him to collapse and die.. and then take an axe to the face when Druss demonstrates just how resilient he really is.

Hijacking the thread slightly, but the one that really puzzles me is Waylander the Slayer (pre-redemption, of course) vs any of Druss, Skilgannon, or Decado.

Druss and Skilgannon faced numerous assassins in their lives, but Waylander is without doubt the greatest assassin in the Drenai novels universe. So, warrior vs assassin.

In a one-on-one, weapons-out, face-to-face duel, I'd have to give the edge to the warriors, though they'd be in pretty bad shape afterwards. But Waylander has a habit of one-shotting his opponents if he can get the drop on them (which he usually does); so if he can catch them unawares, is it an auto-win for the assassin?

[Omergideon]

To be fair, he did come back to life one day...so that's not an entirely misplaced fear.

I LOL'ed so hard. Especially as Druss was known to them as the guy who walked through hell with their spiritual liege lord (with Ulric too, who had to quit early because otherwise he would have died) to rescue the Liege Lord's wife from the deepest pit of Hell, guarded by an army of Demons. It was probably quite a realistic fear.

But yeah, Like Druss Skilgannon did spend at least 1000 years wandering about HELL itself without trouble. Druss was able to visit the Heavenly equivalent to see his wife on occasion and so chose to go to Hell. But surviving there without becoming a monster was something rare indeed.



But Decado has one of the most badass reasons for becoming a Monk in History (just like Skilgannon became one.......hmm). He says that he was essentially a muderer because in combat he was just that damn good. Nobody could touch him. And whilst it is true he was a very Latent Psychic he still had no access to any abilities at that point. Precognition in a Jedi form is not available to any of the 30s in history, just telepathy. And remember at this point the Psychic he killed was boosted by having all his men telepathically linked to him (who outnumbered the 30 as well).

Regarding Waylander in basic combat, he was good no doubt. A great fighter and excellent soldier who could take mooks with ease. But he mentions and encounters people frequently who can outclass him in straight up combat without trouble. He admits it himself that he is merely a good swordsman, not a special one. What he was, was the greatest assasin of all time. As far as that went, if he wanted you dead then eventually you were dead.

His assasinations include a detailed description in one of the books, I think Hero of Shadows. And in that he describes a method that is a methodical stalking, a careful plan and a full effort for disguises and the works. I think if he got the drop on anyone (except Druss, cos......He's Druss Dammit!) they are dead. One shot to the heart from an archer who only misses when he wants to.


So in closing, Elric may beat Skilgannon, but it would be no pushover unless summoned help is included. And even then a man who takes on 9 foot werewolfy things almost as a matter of course may not be too troubled by summoned helo, depending on the type. Facing the psychically charged Decado, the one who led the 30.....that is a more ingteresting fight.


And I second a Druss appreciation thread. Raise a glass os Lentrian Fire to the man who's picture is found in the dictionary under "Badass" with the quote, "Enough Said"

[dehro]

so if he can catch them unawares, is it an auto-win for the assassin?yes it is...demonic enhanced crossbow and so forth..

guys..y'all realize that we have just ruined some of the best books out there for those who haven't read them yet, right?

SPOILERRRRRSS!!!!

[Bastian Weaver]

His crossbow wasn't demonically enhanced, just very good.
People who haven't read the books - quit wasting your time and GO READ THEM! They didn't call Gemmell the King of Heroic Fantasy for nothing, you know.

[Omergideon]

Nothing about the Jon Shannow books (post apocalyptic westerns) has been spoiled. Or his various one shots which range from the merely excellent to the simply superb.



And yeah, how do we feel Decado matches up. Decado 1 that is. The Ice Slayer. A man who we know had astral projection, walking through time, mind reading and healing among his powers once they fully developed.

[Bastian Weaver]

Oh, yes. The Shannow books, which are THE science fiction/fantasy postapocalyptic western.
The Black Moon. The Knights of Dark Renown.
Troy trilogy was awesome, too.

[Feytalist]

Troy Trilogy was merely good. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed them immensely, but it wasn't anywhere near the level of the Drenai or Waylander books. Same with the Lion of Macedon books.

But the stand-alones were good too. Dark Moon and Echoes of the Great Song in particular. And the two Hawk Queen books. Don't forget them.


Also, really only Legend has been spoiled. But even so, Druss had many other books written about him, so the spoiler is really not all that gamebreaking.

[Bastian Weaver]

It was different, I'd say - more realistic, less fantasy. Not a single demon. No real magic (but there were prophets).
Still, Gemmell quality.

[Traab]

Troy Trilogy was merely good. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed them immensely, but it wasn't anywhere near the level of the Drenai or Waylander books. Same with the Lion of Macedon books.

But the stand-alones were good too. Dark Moon and Echoes of the Great Song in particular. And the two Hawk Queen books. Don't forget them.


Also, really only Legend has been spoiled. But even so, Druss had many other books written about him, so the spoiler is really not all that gamebreaking.

Well even then Legend wasnt spoilered THAT hard. His death was predicted in the very first book of druss and his early life)

So it wasnt that big of a surprise when it happened. In fact, its been awhile, but I think it was even foreshadowed in the start of Legend as well. Sort of to remind us in case we forgot. :p

[dehro]

meh.. I seem to remember at least a couple of posts which, put together, pretty much outline most of the plot of Legend.

[Bastian Weaver]

Not really. Legend is much more than "This cool old man goes to war, a fortress is sieged by barbarians, cool old man says some cool stuff and fights a lot and then dies, being BADASS at all that". Hey, we didn't even discuss the character based on Gemmell himself.

[Traab]

Not really. Legend is much more than "This cool old man goes to war, a fortress is sieged by barbarians, cool old man says some cool stuff and fights a lot and then dies, being BADASS at all that". Hey, we didn't even discuss the character based on Gemmell himself.

Can you IM me that characters name? Ill admit that I dont take part in in depth research of the stories I read, so this sort of thing slips by me a lot.

[Bastian Weaver]

Done and done.

[Feytalist]

Thread derailment concluded. This is now a Druss thread.


The thing with Skilgannon is, he only appeared in two books. Fine, those two books covered most of his life (twice), but there's only so much you can tell about a guy in the span of two books. And with such a great possibility for a sequel at the end of the second book, too. I would like to think that if Gemmell lived, he'd have written a third. Shame.

[Bastian Weaver]

Probably. After all, Wolf in Shadows was meant to be the only book about Shannow, he didn't plan a sequel, to say nothing of two.