Divine Psionics

[big teej]

greetings playgrounders,

I come with a simple question this time around.


there exist many "theurge" classes, a PrC that combines two forms of casting for a (supposedly) more powerful final product.


is there such a melding of Psionics and Cleric casting?


if so, where can I find it?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Psychic Theurge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) which is basically the same as the Cerebremancer.

[big teej]

Psychic Theurge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) which is basically the same as the Cerebremancer.

I don't suppose I could find this in a hardcopy book somewhere could I?

[Rubik]

The Mind's Eye is as official as anything else they've released, but no, it does not exist in print.

Unless you want to use a printer yourself.

[Dusk Eclipse]

No sadly most of the 3.5 (and some 3.0 if memory serves right) psionics content was released exclusively as web content.

I think someone compiled a PDF with all the Mind's eye article so you can print them more easilly; but I am pretty sure that isn't what you wanted when you asked for a hardcopy.

[Answerer]

I really do think I'd probably avoid any game with anyone who thought there would be a problem with doing "Cerebremancer, but with Divine instead of Arcane"...

I mean, other than the usual problem that theurges kinda suck. That depends on the desired power level of your game. But if Cerebremancer is OK, Psychic Theurge shouldn't even be a question, IMO.

[big teej]

I really do think I'd probably avoid any game with anyone who thought there would be a problem with doing "Cerebremancer, but with Divine instead of Arcane"...

I mean, other than the usual problem that theurges kinda suck. That depends on the desired power level of your game. But if Cerebremancer is OK, Psychic Theurge shouldn't even be a question, IMO.

indeed so, on both counts. but the theurges would actually be quite effective in my games. so there you have it.




No sadly most of the 3.5 (and some 3.0 if memory serves right) psionics content was released exclusively as web content.

I think someone compiled a PDF with all the Mind's eye article so you can print them more easilly; but I am pretty sure that isn't what you wanted when you asked for a hardcopy.

it is indeed not, but merely a personal preference.anyone paying attention may have just witnessed the first chink in my stance on "no online material"

[Flickerdart]

Considering that 3.0 Psionics content is largely limited to the PsH, there's probably more of that online than offline.

[Rubik]

Considering that 3.0 Psionics content is largely limited to the PsH, there's probably more of that online than offline.And considering that the 3.5 online content is waaay more awesome and balanced and generally BETTER in every way shape and form than the extra sourcebook we got (which shall remain unnamed for sanity's sake)...

[Bogardan_Mage]

And considering that the 3.5 online content is waaay more awesome and balanced and generally BETTER in every way shape and form than the extra sourcebook we got (which shall remain unnamed for sanity's sake)...
There were one or two diamonds in the rough, but there was just so much rough.

[Rejusu]

I really do think I'd probably avoid any game with anyone who thought there would be a problem with doing "Cerebremancer, but with Divine instead of Arcane"...

I mean, other than the usual problem that theurges kinda suck. That depends on the desired power level of your game. But if Cerebremancer is OK, Psychic Theurge shouldn't even be a question, IMO.

The existence of Ur-priest makes Psychic Theurge a stronger option than Cerebremancer in my opinion. Dual 9's by ECL 18 is none too shabby. Though really the psychic theurge/cerebremancer suck more than mystic theurge in my opinion. Primarily because of splitting your feats between two "magic" systems would just leave you feat starved. At least metamagics can be applied to divine and arcane spellcasting.

[Rubik]

The existence of Ur-priest makes Psychic Theurge a stronger option than Cerebremancer in my opinion. Dual 9's by ECL 18 is none too shabby. Though really the psychic theurge/cerebremancer suck more than mystic theurge in my opinion. Primarily because of splitting your feats between two "magic" systems would just leave you feat starved. At least metamagics can be applied to divine and arcane spellcasting.And manifesters are pretty feat-starved as it stands.

[FMArthur]

There are a fair number of psionic options for gaining actions however, making a good deal of metapsionic feat investment indirectly supportive of your spellcasting side. One of the disadvantages of theurges is that they don't normally have the action economy to actually use both sides of their spellcasting to be more than a weak version of one side at a time.

[Answerer]

The existence of Ur-priest makes Psychic Theurge a stronger option than Cerebremancer in my opinion. Dual 9's by ECL 18 is none too shabby. Though really the psychic theurge/cerebremancer suck more than mystic theurge in my opinion. Primarily because of splitting your feats between two "magic" systems would just leave you feat starved. At least metamagics can be applied to divine and arcane spellcasting.
Agreed on all of the above, except the implication that this in any way the problem of Psychic Theurge. If this is a problem for your table, ban Ur-Priest, not Psychic Theurge.

Of course, while certainly "none too shabby", a pure Cleric is probably better anyway.

[Rejusu]

Agreed on all of the above, except the implication that this in any way the problem of Psychic Theurge. If this is a problem for your table, ban Ur-Priest, not Psychic Theurge.

Of course, while certainly "none too shabby", a pure Cleric is probably better anyway.

I didn't mean to imply that at all. I just think that Psychic Theurge is easier to make work than Cerebremancer.

[Psyren]

The existence of Ur-priest makes Psychic Theurge a stronger option than Cerebremancer in my opinion. Dual 9's by ECL 18 is none too shabby. Though really the psychic theurge/cerebremancer suck more than mystic theurge in my opinion. Primarily because of splitting your feats between two "magic" systems would just leave you feat starved. At least metamagics can be applied to divine and arcane spellcasting.

Disagree totally; magic+psionics theurges have a lot more synergy than magic+magic, for exactly the reason FMArthur described (action economy). Furthermore, psionics functions much better at a lower power level (if you boost your ML, many low-level powers can function just as well as high-level ones through augmentation.) Finally, spells like Mental Pinnacle/Dweomer of Transference allow one side to feed on the other in a way that magic-magic doesn't as easily allow.

And because there are psionics with a variety of casting stats, it's easier to get ability score synergy between your halves. You don't need to have both metapsionics and metamagic.

[Big Fau]

Cerebremancer is easier to use by virtue of the Ardent existing.

[Psyren]

Cerebremancer is easier to use by virtue of the Ardent existing.

I'd amend that to Psychic Theurge - Wis-based arcanists are virtually nonexistent.

[Big Fau]

I'd amend that to Psychic Theurge - Wis-based arcanists are virtually nonexistent.

Still very much do-able.