Why did Serini leave a journal?

[Particle_Man]

It seems like the other members of the Order of the Scribble got the idea that the gates had to be kept secret to save the world. Did Serini not get that memo? Or did she just not care?

[Fish]

Well, Xykon did say he had to decode it.

We can debate whether Serini told the truth in her journal, but two important bits of information so far corroborate: Xykon and Girard both say Serini has the coordinates.

[Forbiddenwar]

"I know there's a gate somewhere around here that I need to protect. Now if only I could remember where I put it."

:smallbiggrin:

(along the same lines of why some people write all their passwords down)

[Shale]

Soon wrote down the Gates' locations too. Dorukan may have as well; we never saw his actual chambers, and anything he wrote would be magically protected from interlopers. Seirini just wasn't a caster.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Or did she just not care?

Or she had the foresight to realize that there had to be some record. The journal could just be her way of ensuring her successors always had the relevant information. No different than “The Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard” or Girard letting his family in on the secret.

[thepsyker]

Or she had been keeping the journal for the entire time they had been adventuring and couldn't bring herself to destroy it.

[Particle_Man]

Or she had the foresight to realize that there had to be some record.

But apparently not the foresight to realize that the record could fall into the wrong hands?

[Flame of Anor]

But apparently not the foresight to realize that the record could fall into the wrong hands?

Do we know how Xykon got it?

[MesiDoomstalker]

Do we know how Xykon got it?

I think he said he found it. Whether that is the truth (highly doubtful) or just an oversimplification (or a lie if you prefer) is a different story. Obviously he didn't find it at Kraagor's gate otherwise that would of been their first stop after Lirian's Gate. Maybe they found it at Lirian's Gate?

[Gift Jeraff]

All we know ishe disappeared for several years and then returned with Serini's diary the same day Redcloak "recruited" the MitD (3 years before strip #1).So it was not at Lirian's Gate, unless Xykon was keeping it a secret for 24 years for some reason.

[ScubaGoomba]

People tend to write things in journals that they wouldn't let anybody else know about; I don't see why this is such a stretch? She may have died unexpectedly, so the journal couldn't be hidden. Hell, it might have been whatever loot her killer (Xykon, perhaps) picked up on the body.

[Tulya]

Serini is an explorer of mysteries of the heart (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0509.html[/url). From the pages we've seen, we know her journal includes personal thoughts, feelings, and observations about others (including relationships!). It's fairly common for people to also include information in their journal that they're sworn to secrecy over, so long as they take precautions to keep the information secure.

I may be looking into things like the title too much (The Life and Times of Serini Toormuck), but I get the sense that her journal was meant to be read by other people someday. None of the Order of the Scribble was immortal, so they must have each expected to pass on their duties and secrets someday, whether they managed to or not.

[Bogardan_Mage]

I may be looking into things like the title too much (The Life and Times of Serini Toormuck), but I get the sense that her journal was meant to be read by other people someday. None of the Order of the Scribble was immortal, so they must have each expected to pass on their duties and secrets someday, whether they managed to or not.
While you make a good point, I get the feeling that Serini was just the type of person to give her journal a ridiculously elaborate title like that whether she expected anyone else to read it or not.

[Cavenskull]

But apparently not the foresight to realize that the record could fall into the wrong hands?
If she thought the journal would never fall into the wrong hands, then why encode the information about the gates? Does she likes personal inconvenience?

[Kurald Galain]

Does she likes personal inconvenience?

Yes. She's an adventurer, after all. That's not a very convenient profession.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

But apparently not the foresight to realize that the record could fall into the wrong hands?

That is a risk that you would have to take in any system you may have to continue the protection of your legacy. If her journal was properly defended, it would be no more or less at risk of falling into the wrong hands than the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard or the location and purpose of the the Draketooth Colony. And, hey, what do you know? Key bits about the Secret Lore did find their way into the wrong hands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0378.html), at least twice (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0415.html). All without Serini’s journal to help them.

Similarly, apparently the Draketooths have too much ego to use an alias when spawning their heirs. Though they managed to remain surprisingly well hidden, they managed to draw attention from the likes of Tarquin, leaving behind their names is a pretty sizeable clue given that such is all that is needed for certain divinations.

(Corrected, below.)

Yes, the journal could fall into the wrong hands. But the knowledge therein also needs to be passed to the correct hands. It is either that or leave the gates entirely undefended once the initial guardian is unable to personally care for it. And, quite frankly, written knowledge tends to remain intact for longer periods than oral tradition. I think Serini ultimately had it right in concept, even if hers was the first legacy to be discovered after Lirian.

[SoC175]

Note that it took Xykon about a decade to decode her journal, her code seems to have been pretty tough

[guguma]

Any person who has themselves set forth to find the gate (or gates) would eventually find them:

Even if Lirian did not blurt out the fact that there were other gates to Xykon the Dark One would know and definitely inform Redcloak that there are in fact other gates

People who look for the gates are not common adventurers, they must be people who are ready to face epic characters to get to the gate and must be very powerful (raw power, and/or resources, soldiers, minions) so they would eventually find them. And a lich practically has an infinite amount of time to look for them.

In that case keeping a diary about the location of the gates is not a big deal,and we do not know if the exact coordinates of the gates are in the diary (correct me if I am wrong), there might be vague locations there, if she did include information about how to past the securities of these gates THAT would be inconvenient.

In fact sapphire guard does the same thing, they practically scream the fact that their entire order and city is protecting a gate which they are practically sitting on.

[JSSheridan]

Hobbit Halfling adventurers have traditionally kept journals ever since that lucky Baggins fellow found that pesky ring.

[Whiffet]

Similarly, apparently the Draketooths have too much ego to use an alias when spawning their heirs. Though they managed to remain surprisingly well hidden, they managed to draw attention from the likes of Tarquin, leaving behind their names is a pretty sizeable clue given that such is all that is needed for certain divinations.

Eh? :smallconfused: Too much ego to use an alias? But Orrin did use an alias. Or am I completely misunderstanding you?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Eh? :smallconfused: Too much ego to use an alias? But Orrin did use an alias. Or am I completely misunderstanding you?
Okay, it seems that I forgot heTarquin referenced his “real name” as being Orrin. The fact that he never mentioned the fake name, just referring to him as “a street illusionist” might have had something to do with it. It is easier to remember that someone used an alias when that alias is actutally named.

Anyway, the dalliances would still be pretty well guaranteed to leave other physical links for divination to pick up on in some form or another. That is likely how Penelope was able to find out Orrin’s real name.


Even if Lirian did not blurt out the fact that there were other gates to Xykon the Dark One would know and definitely inform Redcloak that there are in fact other gates
I am reasonably certain that if The Dark One was aware of the existence of other gates, that knowledge would have been encoded into the Crimson Mantle, and Redcloak would, therefore, already have known about them. Why The Dark One would know about one Gate and not the others, though, is beyond me.

I would also like to mention that a “Tell them about it later” attitude doesn’t seem to mesh with what we have seen of communication with the divine. Direct communication doesn’t seem to happen much, even on very important things. The last time the Dark One had a message for Redcloak, it had to be delivered by Jirix. (Assuming, of course, we can trust Jirix’s account.) This is one of the reasons I believe the Dark One would have encoded all the relevant knowledge he had into the Crimson Mantle.

[Jasdoif]

Why The Dark One would know about one Gate and not the others, though, is beyond me.I came to a realization on this recently: The Dark One first became aware of the rifts when one of his priests was killed by the Snarl through one, and he investigated the site. The setting of that panel was forest.

I imagine Loki and so forth were unwilling to tell the Dark One where all the rifts were, or even that there were multiple rifts, but he had personally observed Lirian's rift. He'd know where that one was located.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

I came to a realization on this recently: The Dark One first became aware of the rifts when one of his priests was killed by the Snarl through one, and he investigated the site. The setting of that panel was forest.

I imagine Loki and so forth were unwilling to tell the Dark One where all the rifts were, or even that there were multiple rifts, but he had personally observed Lirian's rift. He'd know where that one was located.

Exactly. The only question is:

He discovered the rifts long before the Order of the Scribble. However, he developed a ritual that required using one of the gates created by Dorukan and Lirian. I just wonder why he watched the Scribbles that gate up without managing to find out about the other gates.

My best guess is that the Order of the Scribble sealed all the rifts before returning to Lirian’s woods and dealing with it as the final rift. Redcloak’s version of the tale seems to indicate that by this point, the rest of the Order of the Scribble had already split up to protect their own gates as it was, since the Dark One seems to only be aware of Lirian and Dorukan.

[Grogmir]

We know the Redcloak did not know about the other gates. His conversation with X after destorying lirians gate confirms this. We don't know if the Dark One knew about the other gates. But seems very unlikely.

As for why Serini kept a journel... Power of plot I reckon ;)

[Gift Jeraff]

Redcloak’s version of the tale seems to indicate that by this point, the rest of the Order of the Scribble had already split up to protect their own gates as it was, since the Dark One seems to only be aware of Lirian and Dorukan.Isn't it implied that the Order of the Scribble killed one of the previous Bearers? So the Dark One should know Lirian and Dorukan were part of a group.

[Forikroder]

probably kept a journal since the scribble started going around, she probably kept a diary of her everyay life before the scribble, and after Soon started his book burning campaign to remove all knowledge of the rifts she couldnt bear destroying the book and removing the last proof about what the scribble did, if the journal was destroyed then its like there entire adventure never happened

[Jasdoif]

Exactly. The only question is:

He discovered the rifts long before the Order of the Scribble. However, he developed a ritual that required using one of the gates created by Dorukan and Lirian. I just wonder why he watched the Scribbles that gate up without managing to find out about the other gates.

My best guess is that the Order of the Scribble sealed all the rifts before returning to Lirian’s woods and dealing with it as the final rift. Redcloak’s version of the tale seems to indicate that by this point, the rest of the Order of the Scribble had already split up to protect their own gates as it was, since the Dark One seems to only be aware of Lirian and Dorukan.Looking through the flashback in SoD...Redcloak never uses the word "rifts", only "rift". Redcloak's tale shows the Dark One bestowing the Crimson Mantle upon his high priest, and sending his high priest to seize the rift...only to be thwarted by the Order of the Scribble, and later the Sapphire Guard....And then he mentions that "in time" Lirian and Dorukan constructed the gate around the rift.

I believe the Dark One (and by extension, Redcloak) was genuinely unaware that there were other rifts. If I had to guess, I'd presume that the Dark One's deific senses are restricted to his area of influence (goblins and their lands), and he was able to sense the one rift in the elven lands solely because a goblin was killed by it, and near it. (The implied timeline, that the Crimson Mantle existed prior to the gates, raises questions about how the knowledge of the ritual became imbued in the Mantle...but those are best left for a different thread.)


Isn't it implied that the Order of the Scribble killed one of the previous Bearers? So the Dark One should know Lirian and Dorukan were part of a group.Not "implied"...A panel shows the Bearer taking Kraagor's axe to the face.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Looking through the flashback in SoD...If I had to guess, I'd presume that the Dark One's deific senses are restricted to his area of influence (goblins and their lands), and he was able to sense the one rift in the elven lands solely because a goblin was killed by it, and near it.
Yeah. That kind of thing is actually standard d20 deity thing. Gods are not omniscient save with things relating to their portfolio. But it just seems to me that at some point, one of the goblins, and by extension The Dark One probably should have overheard something about their being other rifts. At the very least, you would think the Dark One would recognize Dorukan and Lirian when they returned.

I just think the Dark One hasn’t been paying nearly enough attention as he should be.


(The implied timeline, that the Crimson Mantle existed prior to the gates, raises questions about how the knowledge of the ritual became imbued in the Mantle...but those are best left for a different thread.)
Yeah, that is something I noticed while re-reading it just after my last post.
It would appear there is some way for the Dark One to affect the knowledge stored withing the Crimson Mantle at a later time. But there is probably something keeping him from doing this on a regular basis. Probably has something to do with the Gods’ non-interference rule.