[3.5] Help with selecting an animal companion

[rmg22893]

So I'm a level 10 druid. I have had a riding dog from the beginning. It's practically unhittable due to the ridiculous amount of natural armor and such that it has due to my level, but its combat abilities are a bit lackluster.

I'm thinking about getting a new, higher-tier animal companion, but I'm lost in trying to weigh the benefits of picking an animal higher up in the tier list as-is versus picking one lower down in the tier list and giving it some bonuses due to my level. I haven't assigned my level 9 feat yet, so I could take Natural Bond. Thinking about Natural Bond+stock Dire bear. Is that decent, or is there a better choice feat/companion-wise?

[Vizzerdrix]

The fleshraker Dino is popular. MM2 or 3 has it.

I myself am fond of the watchspider from the Waterdeep book, and of course Eberron has some feats to pick up some nice non animal companions.

[rmg22893]

The fleshraker Dino is popular. MM2 or 3 has it.

I myself am fond of the watchspider from the Waterdeep book, and of course Eberron has some feats to pick up some nice non animal companions.

Unfortunately, dinosaurs are out of the question. I want to try to keep to fairly common mammalian, avian, and amphibian options, if possible. Dinosaurs just seem silly for a druid to use.

[Vizzerdrix]

Hmm... I know crocs get silly grapple checks, and cheetahs make superb mounts. Let me see if I can track down the Druid hand book.

Here we go. This should have a list of good animals.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940

[Coidzor]

Dinosaurs are no sillier than dragons existing in the world. :smalltongue: Or Paladins riding around on them either.

Do you want a grappler, a (pouncing) charger, a pinch-hitter?


The fleshraker Dino is popular. MM2 or 3 has it.

It's MM3.

[tyckspoon]

Unfortunately, dinosaurs are out of the question. I want to try to keep to fairly common mammalian, avian, and amphibian options, if possible. Dinosaurs just seem silly for a druid to use.

Only if you're really stuck on the idea of dinosaurs being extinct. If they're around, they're not any stranger than any other form of animal life.

Generally getting a stronger base animal is better than applying bonuses to a weaker one. It does depend a little bit on what you want from your companion, tho; while a Dire Bear is probably the best option for a meat-wall, out of the options you have the Dire Lion (or Megaraptor, but you don't want a dinosaur, so) is probably the best raw damage output.

[rmg22893]

Only if you're really stuck on the idea of dinosaurs being extinct. If they're around, they're not any stranger than any other form of animal life.

Generally getting a stronger base animal is better than applying bonuses to a weaker one. It does depend a little bit on what you want from your companion, tho; while a Dire Bear is probably the best option for a meat-wall, out of the options you have the Dire Lion (or Megaraptor, but you don't want a dinosaur, so) is probably the best raw damage output.

I've never encountered a dinosaur in any of my campaigns ever, so I find it bad taste to make one as my animal companion.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The Dire Eagle in Races of Stone is a 'level -3' companion and the next best thing right behind a Fleshraker.

Your animal companion isn't found out in the woods, you sit and pray for 24 hours and it shows up. Sort of like it somehow knew ahead of time that you would call it, and it began its journey to you at just the right time that it shows up right at the end of your prayer. It doesn't matter how far away it came from, or if it's even native to your current continent. Keep in mind that it may need special accommodations to survive if for example you adventure in an arctic area and it's native to a tropical climate.

Take the feat Natural Bond from Complete Adventurer. You can apply your own effects in the most beneficial order. You can apply the 'level -3' for a stronger companion first, and then apply Natural Bond afterward, to still count your full Druid level toward its benefits. Exalted Companion in BoED is another option to get a Celestial version, as that will allow your animal companion to take Sacred Vow and Vow of Poverty. It's extremely cheesy, so use that at your own risk. Also keep in mind that exalted characters aren't supposed to use poison, so it probably won't work for a Fleshraker.

[Coidzor]

I've never encountered a dinosaur in any of my campaigns ever, so I find it bad taste to make one as my animal companion.

Maybe you should ask your DM about that then. :smalltongue: If dinosaurs don't exist in his settting, then, there you go.

If they do, hey, maybe this'll remind him to get in that fight with monkey people riding raptors in the jungle that he'd always wanted.

[Taelas]

Natural Bond doesn't work in way -- you only treat your effective druid level as three higher for determining bonus HD, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that the animal companion receives. You cannot use it to get a stronger animal companion earlier. If you selected the feat at first level, for example, it would have no effect until you hit level 4 and replaced your first animal companion with a 4th-level one, towards which you could apply your full effective druid level -- or you could wait till level 7, at which point you could get an animal companion of that level that would be treated as if your effective druid level was 4 instead of 1, and so on.

You could choose a polar bear and be treated as 4th level if you chose Natural Bond, or you could choose a tiger and be treated as 7th.

Comparing the tiger and the polar bear (and assuming you took the feat), they have the same number of HD (10), but the polar bear has 28 Str, 14 Dex, and 19 Con, whereas the tiger has 25 Str, 17 Dex, and 17 Con. The bear has 17 AC, and the tiger has 19. Both have Improved Grab, but the tiger also has pounce. The tiger also has better feats, though with some argument, you can probably choose the ones you want (only the 1st level animal companion has any kind of rules for it, being 'completely typical for its kind').

[Gotterdammerung]

I like to take the cerval and reduce animal it to tiny, then give it underfoot combat, confound the big folk, giant bane, and feats like that. Then buff up it's damage with spells.

[Pilo]

Ape are cool. (Dire ape is a trap.)
As a gnome druid, i liked to have a big guy like that under a cloak as a shadow.


Furthermore it has reach, 3 attacks and 4HD for only -3 to your druid level.

[gkathellar]

I agree with Coidzor - ask your DM. Fleshrakers are amazing.

Otherwise, try one of the Horrid options from that one Eberron book. Err ... which one was it?

[Vizzerdrix]

I agree with Coidzor - ask your DM. Fleshrakers are amazing.

Otherwise, try one of the Horrid options from that one Eberron book. Err ... which one was it?

Eberron Campaign Setting.

[gkathellar]

Eberron Campaign Setting.

Apparently, I am dumb.

[2xMachina]

Magebred is pretty cool too. Get it wartrained by the way.

EDIT: Meant warbeast

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Natural Bond doesn't work in way -- you only treat your effective druid level as three higher for determining bonus HD, extra tricks, special abilities, and other bonuses that the animal companion receives. You cannot use it to get a stronger animal companion earlier. If you selected the feat at first level, for example, it would have no effect until you hit level 4 and replaced your first animal companion with a 4th-level one, towards which you could apply your full effective druid level -- or you could wait till level 7, at which point you could get an animal companion of that level that would be treated as if your effective druid level was 4 instead of 1, and so on.

Text > Table.

"A druid of 4th level or higher may select from alternative lists of animals. Should she select an animal companion from one of these alternative lists, the creature gains abilities as if the character’s druid level were lower than it actually is. Subtract the value indicated in the appropriate list header from the character’s druid level and compare the result with the druid level entry on the table to determine the animal companion’s powers. (If this adjustment would reduce the druid’s effective level to 0 or lower, she can’t have that animal as a companion.)"

The "X level or higher" header is part of a table, and it's only there for quick reference. If you're 4th level or higher, you can get any animal companion from any column on that table as long as your adjusted druid level is greater than zero. For example, a Druid 4 with Natural Bond can get a 'level -6' companion, because his adjusted level will still be greater than zero.

[Igneel]

Natural Bond
Your bond with your animal companion is exceptionally strong
Prerequisite: Animal Companion
Benefit: Add three to your effective druid level for the purpose of determining the bonus Hit Dice, extra tricks, special ablities, and other bonuses that your animal companion recieves (see page 36 of the Player's Handbook). This bonus can never make your effective druid level exceed your character level.

My emphasis. From my reading this makes it so yes, as a level 4 Druid you can pick a stronger animal companion that would naturally occur a -3 to its abilities to make it treated like it was a level 1 Druid animal companion that advanced to level 4. I don't think it's supposed to allow you to pick from the next set of animals. That is my understanding anyways...

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

My emphasis. From my reading this makes it so yes, as a level 4 Druid you can pick a stronger animal companion that would naturally occur a -3 to its abilities to make it treated like it was a level 1 Druid animal companion that advanced to level 4. I don't think it's supposed to allow you to pick from the next set of animals. That is my understanding anyways...

That's your effective druid level for your animal companion's benefits, such as extra HD and other bonuses. Your effective Druid level for purposes of picking an animal companion from any of the columns is completely irrelevant once you've reached 4th level.

The text I quoted specifies that you can pick any animal companion you want, provided 1. You're 4th level or higher; 2. Your adjusted Druid level for the animal companion's benefits is greater than zero. Those are the only two limitations that apply, as per the text which automatically overrides a table entry.

The headers on each column provide what level you would typically be able to gain that companion, assuming only the core rulebooks are being used, and then the adjustment to your Druid level for the animal companion's benefits. That adjustment is the only relevant portion of that table if you have Natural Bond. The "X Level or Higher" given at the top of each column is not a limitation, it is never even referenced as a limitation anywhere in the text. That's only present as a quick reference guide, and is completely irrelevant if you're not using just the core rulebooks. The text very clearly states under what conditions you can acquire a stronger companion, and it has nothing to do with the "X Level or Higher" portion of those headers.

If you disagree with this, please quote the relevant portion of text which states that the "X Level or Higher" portion of the headers is a limitation on when you can acquire a companion from that column.

[Igneel]

Look, I was just stating how I understood it, no need to go biting my head off. I really don't care about getting into a fight over how text > table or whatever. Its just that it doesn't make sense for a feat to allow a druid to pick a animal companion that is technically meant for a higher level then your druid level should be able to get, such as in your example earlier about a "lvl 4 Druid with Natural Bond picking from the -6 list". It this were true, then wouldn't any human druid with flaws pick Natural Bond x2 (since the feat doesn't say it can't stack or be taken multiple times, I assume it can) for an effective +6 at a level besides 1st for a stronger animal companion? Granted that is a huge waste of a druid's feats since they can use at least one of those for something else, but that's what I'm getting from this.

Again, that was just my interpretation, as that is how most if not all guides/handbooks/advice givers seem to regard it. If that is wrong, congrats, you outsmarted many others. Have fun playing with animal companions that prior to this 'discussion' I thought I would have to wait longer to get.

May you roll a many natural 20,
-Igneel

[Gandariel]

Dire Eagle!!!
one of my players (level four druid) raped a manticore with one. without buffs or anything weird.
Also is large, fast flier, +12 Grapple mod (doesn't have the feat, but you can pick it up)
three good attacks, also good AC.

bonus points for grappling someone, flying up, then dropping the foe :)