[3.5, PF] Ramifications of the humble fireball.

[Laniius]

This line is in the description of fireball for both 3.5 and pathfinder.

"The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does."

Ok, define combustible? Are clothing, flesh, skin, or hair combustible? Does that mean that you are set on fire? Does that mean you take fire damage each round unless you stop-drop-and roll?

What about a wizard's spellbook? What about scrolls you are carrying?

Also, what about the gold pieces you are carrying? Do they melt, becoming an indiscriminate mass?

What about breaking a door down? Or a wall?

Have these outcomes, or those similar, ever been detailed in either 3.5 or Pathfinder?

[Doorhandle]

Not really, it's more a common-sense thing.

Although it has been noted that fireball has little, if any blast power, so to pass through that locked door it needs to BURN through it.

Still, it might unbalance/rebalance (depending on opinion) fireball if it sets alight to too many things aside from the super-obvious, like oil. Lord knows that more wizards woul have rings of fire resist if it could burn spellbooks and wands...

[mattie_p]

DM Way to screw with nerf your over optimized wizard in the party 17:

DM: Looks like the ogre bullrushes you into the creek. Umm by the way, let me see the contents of your backpack. Hmm, don't see anything waterproof, looks like that spellbook is ruined.

PC: Gah!

Next session:

PC: I bought a new spellbook, and this time its wrapped in oilcloth!

DM: That kobold sorcerer just cast fireball. Oilcloth is clearly flammable. Looks like that spellbook is ruined.

PC: Gah!

[Jeraa]

Ok, define combustible? Are clothing, flesh, skin, or hair combustible? Does that mean that you are set on fire? Does that mean you take fire damage each round unless you stop-drop-and roll?
You aren't set on fire. Fireball is an instantaneous spell, and:

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and non-instantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don't normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.


What about a wizard's spellbook? What about scrolls you are carrying?
Also, what about the gold pieces you are carrying? Do they melt, becoming an indiscriminate mass?

Your gear (either worn or held) is totally undamaged, unless you roll a natural 1 on the save, Even then, only 1 item is damaged. You can be holding a piece of paper out in front of you, and that paper won't be damaged by the fireball (unless you roll a natural 1). If that same piece of paper is just lying on a table, it is burned, though. The same applies to any piece of equipment - your holding it/wearing it, its fine; its unattended, it takes damage.


What about breaking a door down? Or a wall?

Fireball does damage doors and walls. And if the damage is enough to destroy them, the fireball can continue into the area beyond them, potentially damaging more creatures/objects.

[Ashtagon]

I normally limit this to things like paper and oil, and only then if you fumble your save or the item is unattended.

Edit: Spell books are normally made with heavy hardback covers that have been alchemically treated, and so while the covers might be slightly singed, the content of the book itself is relatively safe from fire.

[Coidzor]

DM Way to screw with nerf your over optimized wizard in the party 17:

DM: Looks like the ogre bullrushes you into the creek. Umm by the way, let me see the contents of your backpack. Hmm, don't see anything waterproof, looks like that spellbook is ruined.

PC: Gah!

Next session:

PC: I bought a new spellbook, and this time its wrapped in oilcloth!

DM: That kobold sorcerer just cast fireball. Oilcloth is clearly flammable. Looks like that spellbook is ruined.

PC: Gah!

No, because an actually optimized wizard would have the spellbook be untouchable. :smalltongue: Doing what you describe is just being a [redacted] for its own sake to a player who is either holding back or doesn't know enough to be a problem.

[Bhaakon]

If a fireball were really hot enough to instantaneously heat an unattended gold coin up to the 1950 or so degrees Fahrenheit it would need to melt, then not only would it flash carbonize you and all your equipment, but the sudden heating of the atmosphere would provide the concussive explosion that the magic itself does not.

In other words, take fluff-tastic spell descriptions with a big wall of salt.

[Ravens_cry]

To be fair, this fluff description, mentioning gold melting and such, is a hold over/copy and paste from first edition AD&D and may be even older.

[Starbuck_II]

You aren't set on fire. Fireball is an instantaneous spell, and:



Now Flaming Sphere isn't instanteous and can set you on fire.

But yreah, Fireball is pretty lax about it.

[Slipperychicken]

No, because an actually optimized wizard would have the spellbook be untouchable. :smalltongue: Doing what you describe is just being a [redacted] for its own sake to a player who is either holding back or doesn't know enough to be a problem.

Not to mention that much damage to objects would also destroy everyone else's stuff, too. An entire Fireball of damage to everyone's items would, more likely than not, melt the Fighter's sword, burn the Monk's cloak and belt off, fry the Cleric's Holy Symbol, and destroy everyone's +Stat items and Bags of Holding.

And it's manages to be needlessly vindictive while failing to address the real issues. And every Wizard worth his spellbook has either rendered it untouchable, resistant/immune to fire (even putting it in a metal lockbox would accomplish this), and/or has spares somewhere.

[Knaight]

Not to mention that much damage to objects would also destroy everyone else's stuff, too. An entire Fireball of damage to everyone's items would, more likely than not, melt the Fighter's sword, burn the Monk's cloak and belt off, fry the Cleric's Holy Symbol, and destroy everyone's +Stat items and Bags of Holding.


The sword would probably survive. Gold has a significantly lower melting point than iron, and I assume that mithral and adamantine have even higher melting points. I'd set adamantine as more or less equivalent to tungsten, with some amount of tungsten carbide alloyed in, and tungsten doesn't exactly have a low melting point. 3422 C is a somewhat more strenuous requirement than that of any precious metal.

[Ravenica]

I usually play it along the lines of instantaneous fire is still capable of igniting highly flammable substances such as lamp oil just because my gaming group is filled with pyros and would be outraged if there was less burninating

[ericgrau]

Objects creatures carry only get affecting by the spell on a save of a natural 1 (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow), then you roll another save for the object.

Any object would take damage: 1/2 fire damage minus hardness = not much. Easily combustible items such as cloth and paper would catch fire. Soft metals would melt. Thicker combustibles like wood would only get singed since it's an instantaneous spell.

[The Redwolf]

I usually play it along the lines of instantaneous fire is still capable of igniting highly flammable substances such as lamp oil just because my gaming group is filled with pyros and would be outraged if there was less burninating

Do they ever burninate the countryside and/or peasants?

[Slipperychicken]

Do they ever burninate the countryside and/or peasants?

Dragonborn Sorcerer, with Fiery Burst and Searing Spell. Because you need to show those Fire-Elementals whose boss :smallcool:


I still cannot get over the mental image of a Fire Elemental burning to death on the Plane of Fire because some Wizard cast Fireball on it.

[Ravenica]

Do they ever burninate the countryside and/or peasants?

Often enough that I rarely let them adventure in civilized lands anymore lol