[3.5] Hivenest Swarm Shifter

[Thurbane]

Hey, I asked this in the Simple Q&A, but I think it goes a bit beyond a simple RAW question:

Is there any reason that you couldn't apply both the Swarm Shifter (LM) and Hivenest Monster (Dng) templates to a large, corporeal undead with an Intelligence score (for the sake of argument, lets say a Devourer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/devourer.htm))?

If this is legal, what would happen to the Hivenest swarm when the being assumes swarm form from it's Swarm Shifter abilities? Are they assumed to be merged into the swarm form, or do they function separately?

Cheers - T

[Thurbane]

I normally hate to bump my own threads...but anyone want to hazard a guess?

[Zombulian]

I have no clue man, sorry. But I would like to hear other's responses and want this post to keep living soo...
http://nwogeo.org/images/topic_posts/bump-hippo.jpg

[DaMullet]

Having glanced through both templates, I see no reason why you couldn't stack them... Finding large intelligent undead is going to be tougher than finding either/or, but that is up to you.

Personally, I would rule that the Hivenest swarms are subsumed in the Swarm Shifter's swarm, and are released upon the swarm's death as if the shifter had died 'whole', though whether to try to figure out how many of the hive swarm are released with each undead swarm member's death or just have it come out when the whole swarm is dead would be up to you.

The tricky bit by RAW is that Hivenest demands a large undead, and while a swarm can occupy a 10x10 square, it is technically composed of tiny or smaller creatures. If you don't mind wibbling the rules a bit, there is no reason this wouldn't work; if you go for a strict interpretation, then either the hivenest swarm would be released immediately upon the shifter not being Large, or the hivenest swarm ceases to be while the shifter is shifted.