OOTS #845 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Quild]

Nice, just when I was checking!

Ok, I'm always checking :(

[Sunken Valley]

bang bang boom.

Edit: doesn't speak with dead have a 10 min casting time. Plus, Roy has at least 4 more questions left.

[sam79]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?

[RMS Oceanic]

Hmm, I've never heard it called "rift" before. :smalltongue:

[Sriad]

Suddenly familicide seems... a lot less evil. :wink:

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Well, were they expecting any different?

Based on my reading of Speak with Dead, the Draketooths must have been drilled from birth to respond in such a way. Or maybe this individual didn't know?

[Killer Angel]

eheheh... the last laugh, indeed.
OK, it's a little rude, but what kind of comedy you'd expect from a corpse? :smalltongue:

[fergo]

Corpse: 1, OotS: 0.

[Armitage]

Soooo... the statue has buttcheeks, right?

[Orzel]

I called Speak with Dead last comic thread.

Matbe Durkon isn't a moron

[Thornus67]

OK, it's a little rude, but what kind of comedy you'd expect from a corpse? :smalltongue:

All I know is the delivery has to be deadpan.

[RMS Oceanic]

Much like the Oracle, you'd probably have to word your question exactly right to get what you want, like "What directions would I take from this room to reach the interdimensional rift located in the Desert on the western continent which Girard Draketooth defended with his family?"

I'm sure someone could even twist this.

[Kgw]

It seems that Girard's family shared his disdain for LG characters (who might be paladins ).

Wow, first page. :p

[Tundar]

Fart/ass jokes never gets old :D

But kinda daft questions for one with Roy's INT score.

[Kish]

Suddenly familicide seems... a lot less evil. :wink:
Whatever your opinion of Girard's family...

Don't forget all the innocent dragons.

[lothos]

All I know is the delivery has to be deadpan.

Meh, I find that sort of humour a little stiff.

Great strip, as usual :-)

[Mynoduesp]

I can just imagine the first few pages of the next comic, where they proceed to check Girrad's buttcheeks.:smalleek:

[Pheldagriff]

when I read the title of this strip, before actually clicking on the link, my first thought was: "omg, this is the strip where belkar will draw his last breath"

phew, I've never been so glad to be wrong before.

[Giggling Ghast]

Jerk. If he wasn't dead, I'd kill him again.

[mirtexxan]

Lol! Great line from Elan!
Anyway I guess the corpse is not lying... :smallbiggrin:
Girard's staue here we come!

[Dandria]

Oh boy, do I hope this is about the statue and not. . . well, I can't actually think about anything else, but I'm sure it would be something terrible.

EDIT:
"What directions would I take from this room to reach the interdimensional rift located in the Desert on the western continent which Girard Draketooth defended with his family?"

I'm sure someone could even twist this.

Sure thing. For example: "the right ones".

[River]

Much like the Oracle, you'd probably have to word your question exactly right to get what you want, like "What directions would I take from this room to reach the interdimensional rift located in the Desert on the western continent which Girard Draketooth defended with his family?"

I'm sure someone could even twist this.

Why, of course. You would take the right directions. Or wrong directions, depending on the interpretation of the question's wording. Or even random directions as they would not tell you the right ones (or any, for this matter).
They could spend all day speaking with dead like that.


But kinda daft questions for one with Roy's INT score.

Well, probably he just doesn't want to ask too specific questions after the second last visit to the Oracle.

[OPM]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?

I must have failed a spot check because I just got ninja'd.

Yeah, I too suspect that it might be in the sort of place chaotic types would be "reasonably sure they wouldn't search" (c.f. Belkar & Azure City's solitary confinement + ring of jumping +20).

[Megaduck]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?

That would be my first guess actually. If the rift is small then it would make sense to hid it where no one would think to look for it. The Azure City rift was hidden over the rulers throne. Girard seems to have more of a sense of humor so he might have hidden it between the statues butt cheeks assuming it would be the last place anyone would look. After all, when searching, how many people are going to look up the statues ass?

[Stormlock]

You'd think the spell would allow, you know, actual speaking with the dead to communicate some rather important information, instead of just questions. Things like; 'your entire clan is dead, you should let us resurrect you to help defend the gate', or 'We can just rez all of you guys if you tell us where you're keeping the insane loot hoard we know you've been accumulating', or 'Is there anything Girard wants us to know now that you're all dead and we're the only ones left to do his job?'

[Chess Tyrant]

We can't be sure if there's any plot-relevant information regarding the gates themselves here, but there is one very important clue: the corpse says Girard's rift lay between his buttcheeks. Past tense. Since the corpse's knowledge is limited to what it knew in life, we can assume this mean Girard died some while ago.

[RMS Oceanic]

You'd think the spell would allow, you know, actual speaking with the dead to communicate some rather important information, instead of just questions. Things like; 'your entire clan is dead, you should let us resurrect you to help defend the gate', or 'We can just rez all of you guys if you tell us where you're keeping the insane loot hoard we know you've been accumulating', or 'Is there anything Girard wants us to know now that you're all dead and we're the only ones left to do his job?'

You don't speak with the soul, you just speak with the body's imprint of the person's mind. If you cast Speak with Dead the day after Roy died, the Roy climbing up the Celestial Mountain would be completely unaware of what his body said and would have no memory of it when revived.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I'll bet there is a much larger statue of Girard somewhere else... With a gem holding the Gate snugly placed... In between the butt cheeks. :smallbiggrin:

[sam79]

After all, when searching, how many people are going to look up the statues ass?

Wait, that's NOT the first part of a statue that you look at? ('Kay, perhaps second part, if it's a statue of a female) No? Just me then...:smallwink:

[zimmerwald1915]

That would be my first guess actually. If the rift is small then it would make sense to hid it where no one would think to look for it. The Azure City rift was hidden over the rulers throne. Girard seems to have more of a sense of humor so he might have hidden it between the statues butt cheeks assuming it would be the last place anyone would look. After all, when searching, how many people are going to look up the statues ass?
Well, we all know how reliable the Crayons of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) are, but that strip shows Girard's Gate being taller than Girard himself.

[Querzis]

You'd think the spell would allow, you know, actual speaking with the dead to communicate some rather important information, instead of just questions. Things like; 'your entire clan is dead, you should let us resurrect you to help defend the gate', or 'We can just rez all of you guys if you tell us where you're keeping the insane loot hoard we know you've been accumulating', or 'Is there anything Girard wants us to know now that you're all dead and we're the only ones left to do his job?'

Thats how the spell also work in D&D.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Speak_with_Dead

Basically, you're not speaking to the soul of the dead, you're really speaking to the corpse, as in, the informations that are left in his brain. You cant really expect a dead brain to give much more then completely deadpan, cryptic and repetitive information that take the question way too litterally.

In other words, hes not being a smartass here...at least not intentionally. Roy might wanna rephrase his questions, thats all.

[oppyu]

tehe, buttcheeks. It's funny because he said buttcheeks. Buttcheeks are funny. They may be ultra-paranoid, chaotic jerks, but props to making jokes about buttcheeks even after familicide killed them all.

[RedWarrior0]

Stone to Flesh time!

[RMS Oceanic]

So, passing over Girard's buttcheeks - sorry, couldn't resist :smallbiggrin: - where do we think #846 will be focusing on? Will Haley's return to the study unleash a new clue, or will perhaps Vaarsuvius regain consciousness and ponder what to do next? Or maybe Belkar will have a comedy scene with Yukyuk and be interrupted by Team Evil and/or the Linear Guild?

[The Succubus]

eheheh... the last laugh, indeed.
OK, it's a little rude, but what kind of comedy you'd expect from a corpse? :smalltongue:

A very deadpan expression.

[Anecronwashere]

The gate is at the end of the Windy Canyon, where the wind enters it.
The entire place is one big fart joke!

The dead managed to answer the questions truthfully so it has to be a place called "Girard's Buttcheeks" and it's unlikely the Rift is portable.
What would you call buttcheeks? the entry point of all the wind of a canyon.

[oppyu]

Maybe it's like the Azure City gate; small enough to lie between the buttcheeks of the statue.

[fergo]

This... actually makes a bit of sense :smalltongue:.

It just depends what level of drama the Giant is planning. Fart jokes are all very well and good, but they can kill dramatic tension pretty quickly :smallwink:.

[Horizon]

Admit it, Giant, you've been waiting about 800 strips to use that joke, haven't you? :smalltongue:

[sun_tzu]

So, passing over Girard's buttcheeks - sorry, couldn't resist :smallbiggrin: - where do we think #846 will be focusing on? Will Haley's return to the study unleash a new clue, or will perhaps Vaarsuvius regain consciousness and ponder what to do next? Or maybe Belkar will have a comedy scene with Yukyuk and be interrupted by Team Evil and/or the Linear Guild?

Could be any of these. Not sure the Linear Guild would want to play its hand yet, though - Tarqin would probably want them to find the gate first.

[Detrinex]

I think they already passed it, it was that stone statue.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

I count it
Corpse 3, OotS 0
with at least 4? more questions to go.
Unless Roy becomes utterly stumped for the remainder of the at least 14? minute duration of the spell trying to figure out how to phrase a question properly :-)
Asking for instruction of how to get there from here will probably only work if the instructions are simple because the answers the corpse can are "usually brief, cryptic, or repetitive" (see SRD).
It is interesting that Durkon compares the responses to those of the Oracle. The core rule books of every edition have always instructed the GM to give obscure, cryptic, or outright useless information to players who attempt to use just about any sort of divination magic. It is classic GM misdirection as per the "rules". If Roy wants to get clear answers he might want to resort to good ol' Yes/No questions. As long as he keeps asking open-ended questions the answers can continue to come from left field as the GM will twist them, obscure them, and in all ways attempt to misdirect the divination. Of course, Roy the player still hasn't figured that out... which is why having a high intelligence on paper doesn't translate to player intelligence (after all, Roy has been in this bind before with the oracle and he managed to totally screw it up). Given Roy's losing streak with oracle questions, it's sort of expected that he's completely messing up here... and completely humorous because this time, instead of being outdone by the "all-knowing" oracle, he's being defeated in a battle of wits... by a "corpse" (aka the GM...). It would still be funny if the statue's butt enclosed the rift.

[Secris]

Admit it, Giant, you've been waiting about 800 strips to use that joke, haven't you? :smalltongue:

That wouldn't surprise me in the least. Comics like these are a nice reminder that while this is a story driven comic, it's still a comic. I can be counted among the folks that wonder if the rift is indeed hidden in the statue's rear end though.

[Dr.Epic]

Why would Durkon prepare that exact spell if he didn't know he'd need it?

[cc_kizz]

I think this one went over my head. :smallsigh: It'll take a few readings to really get it, but you guys are hilarious with your comments. :smallsmile:

My thoughts also turned to the statue…

Edit: Ooooh! I get it!

[Lvl45DM!]

It disturbs me that i actually saw the possible cryptic meaning behind the punchline before i saw the actual joke. "Girard's Rift"... oh my

[Chobarth]

Whatever your opinion of Girard's family...

Don't forget all the innocent dragons.

Eeee Gods. Not this again. Evil dragons. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Well done V. Too bad about all the collateral damage, you should have thought it through it better with your vaunted 18 Int score.

The 'innocent' black dragons are like all of the 'innocent' practitioners of <insert your favorite example of dread evil>... and we all know you aren't a fan of the Belkster Kish. You, Celia, and a few other forum pacifists seem to worry about the issue in the abstract, but in OOT's-world "reality" the dead dragons should have caused a tilt towards the good... LESS suffering, LESS harm, LESS depravity. Too bad s/he didn't knock off 25% of the Red ones as well.

It's Burlew's world, but D&D based means the black dragons were evil. (yes, yes, with micro-percentage non-evil black dragons who really were innocent - the alignment rules are crazy)


LOL for me calling the OOT's comic universe a reality.

[Gettles]

All the corpses there and they found the body of Johnny Tightlips. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIGUu0bvpMQ&feature=related)

[zimmerwald1915]

*words*
The goodness or evilness of an act does not depend on the goodness or evilness of the people upon whom the actor is acting. Showing mercy to good people is just as good as showing mercy to evil people. Murdering evil people is just as evil as murdering good people. Judge the act. Not the victims.

[tcrudisi]

It disturbs me that i actually saw the possible cryptic meaning behind the punchline before i saw the actual joke. "Girard's Rift"... oh my

Same here. I actually didn't realize that was a joke until I re-read the comic. For some reason, I have never associated "rift" with "buttocks". /shrug

[Sir Conkey]

The gate is at the end of the Windy Canyon, where the wind enters it.
The entire place is one big fart joke!

The dead managed to answer the questions truthfully so it has to be a place called "Girard's Buttcheeks" and it's unlikely the Rift is portable.
What would you call buttcheeks? the entry point of all the wind of a canyon.

I can't tell if you missed the joke about "Girard's Rift" or are just being silly

Although it would be hilarious if the rift is in the statue's butt. Proving the dead Draketooth to be both clever and completely literal.

[Yuki Akuma]

The goodness or evilness of an act does not depend on the goodness or evilness of the people upon whom the actor is acting. Showing mercy to good people is just as good as showing mercy to evil people. Murdering evil people is just as evil as murdering good people. Judge the act. Not the victims.

Unless the individual is an Evil Outsider, in which case murdering him can only be Good because the Book of Exalted Deeds is weird.

[Myrdhale]

These types of answers are exactly why the western continent needs to develope a central government capable of charting and laying out a geodedict co-ordinate system; no more smart-ass corpses giving you cryptic locations if they need to give you latitude and longitude. (I'm in surveying right so it's the first thing that popped into my head about how to solve this problem):smallredface:

Another vote for Team Tarquin. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: wait no, he's against that. He needs to up his game I think, go big or go home, etc, etc.

[MeanMrsMustard]

The goodness or evilness of an act does not depend on the goodness or evilness of the people upon whom the actor is acting. Showing mercy to good people is just as good as showing mercy to evil people. Murdering evil people is just as evil as murdering good people. Judge the act. Not the victims.
Thank you. So much. :smallsmile:
On the topic of the comic; though, meh. I don't really care for butt humor. Still can't wait for #846, though.

[Reks]

HAHAHA :smallbiggrin: I seriously thought they were finally getting somewhere :smalltongue:
Also I guess this kinda answers what people thought happened to the diamond dust.
My first post :smallcool:

[Myrdhale]

Thank you. So much. :smallsmile:
On the topic of the comic; though, meh. I don't really care for butt humor. Still can't wait for #846, though.

The beauty is you don't have to care for butt humour. Roy and Durkon sure don't! Just sympathise with them for this strip. :smallbiggrin:

[M.A.D]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?

Nah, probably, it's just for the comedy


Fart/ass jokes never gets old :D

But kinda daft questions for one with Roy's INT score.

You think it's more daft than the question that he used to ask the Oracle?


bang bang boom.

Edit: doesn't speak with dead have a 10 min casting time. Plus, Roy has at least 4 more questions left.

Just do what I do and pretend 10 minutes passed between the panels ;)

[Aurorax]

I'm surprised that after the first two questions, they didn't sit down and think before wasting another question. If he took enough time to figure out a question for the Oracle, you'd think he'd do the same here (although he did blow that one...)

[LadyEowyn]

I was hoping for a little more in the way of content, but we've had a lot of very plot-heavy strips (everything with Redcloak, followed by the effects of Familicide) so I guess it's okay for a few of them to be filler now.

I would have hoped that they'd have fashioned the first question better, and after it didn't work have progressed to asking other things, like "How did you die?"

Or at least, don't ask such open-ended questions about the Gate's location - start with "Is the Gate inside the ziggurat?" and then "Is the gate on the ground floor of the ziggurat or below?" and so on, trying to narrow things down. At least then they'd have some information.

But no, even though Roy's a smart character and has enough experience with the Oracle to know how these things work, we get him being unusually dumb for the sake of some crass humour.

[Mutant Sheep]

Stop it with calling the joke "deadpan". It's so bad it hurts.:smallbiggrin:


II do wonder where V is. I ALMOST hope for a Belkar-coma scene for Vir, but that wouldn't make much sense.:smallsigh:

[willpell]

For those of us who possess only a passing familiarity with the original Bard, could someone quote the original the reference that the current Bard is riffing on in the last panel? I'm sure I've heard the meter before but I don't recall the exact wording of the real poem.

[Morty]

Technically speaking, the corpse told them nothing but the truth. The Draketooths are duplicitous even beyond the grave.

[LuPuWei]

Girard seems more like a rift between the buttcheeks with every passing comic...

[Stabbey]

Well, we all know how reliable the Crayons of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) are, but that strip shows Girard's Gate being taller than Girard himself.

That's why I didn't think the statue was Girard. That is a pretty clever hiding spot, too.

[Rowan Mikaio]

You'd think the spell would allow, you know, actual speaking with the dead to communicate some rather important information, instead of just questions. Things like; 'your entire clan is dead, you should let us resurrect you to help defend the gate', or 'We can just rez all of you guys if you tell us where you're keeping the insane loot hoard we know you've been accumulating', or 'Is there anything Girard wants us to know now that you're all dead and we're the only ones left to do his job?'

Well if it made any difference (and other people have already covered that it doesn't) then you could easily work that information into your question. "Since your entire clan is dead, would you like for us to resurrect you using the diamonds you possess?", which is pretty much exactly what you did in your last example question.

I would, however, probably avoid mention of the gate, since they're going to be suspicious enough as it is. I mean, not only would it be very easy for the dead person to answer "yes" to that last question, but even worse, you could get a response like "I want you to die a fiery death". Or if you're really unlucky, a codeword that sets off a major trap.

[Krim]

I called Speak with Dead last comic thread.

Matbe Durkon isn't a moron

Actually, the fact that Durkon managed to have the right spell prepared mind-boggles me.

[Castamir]

Roy's question was ill-formed: instead of "the rift in the Windy Canyon where the gate is", he asked about "Girard's rift".

[Arrowstorm122]

I think he just skrewed around with them, it would be VERY odd to put the rift in the statues butt. I don't see why he would do that. I bet it's either hidden some place for the family, or it's a clever illusion.

[M.A.D]

I think he just skrewed around with them, it would be VERY odd to put the rift in the statues butt. I don't see why he would do that. I bet it's either hidden some place for the family, or it's a clever illusion.

Technically, he has to build the statue's butt around the rift, rather than the way around. But I agree with you. It would have been a bit awkward

[Quild]

Actually, the fact that Durkon managed to have the right spell prepared mind-boggles me.

Yeah, what other third level spell could he have prepared?
Cure Serious Wound, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Searing Light...

Speak with dead is unexpectedly appropriate here, when they're supposed to be prepared to fight Xykon.

[Querzis]

I think he just skrewed around with them, it would be VERY odd to put the rift in the statues butt. I don't see why he would do that. I bet it's either hidden some place for the family, or it's a clever illusion.

Hes not screwing around with them, hes a corpse. Roy question was just poorly worded and speaking with corpse with «speak with dead» always give very literal answers. Hes not speaking with the soul of the Draketooth here, Speak with dead allows you to speak with the informations that are left in the corpse rotting brain. Its rarely very helpful unless you ask yes or no question.

[Psyren]

First panel is a bit chilling though - we have just clearly established that Durkon has the mats for one more resurrection. Will he need to?

[Smolder]

:roy: "How do we protect the gate?"
:amused: "Kiss... Girard's... rift... hehe..."

[Krim]

I was hoping for a little more in the way of content, but we've had a lot of very plot-heavy strips (everything with Redcloak, followed by the effects of Familicide) so I guess it's okay for a few of them to be filler now.

I would have hoped that they'd have fashioned the first question better, and after it didn't work have progressed to asking other things, like "How did you die?"
"Pink ray from the sky".
"Sitting down".
"With my famly".
"Suddenly".
"Painlessly".
"A Wizard did it".

As you can see, even I can devise half a dozen of useless answers to that question.


Or at least, don't ask such open-ended questions about the Gate's location - start with "Is the Gate inside the ziggurat?"
"No", even though the answer is "yes", simply because the corpse is talking about Kraagor's gate.

and then "Is the gate on the ground floor of the ziggurat or below?" and so on, trying to narrow things down. At least then they'd have some information. That one, I can't think how to twist it...but I'm sure Rich can come up with something.

[Mooglefrooglian]

You can't lie if the spell is being used on your corpse, though you can get a will save (if I remember correctly, the description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/speakWithDead.htm) is pretty darn vague) so I'm pretty sure it means the gate is on the statue of Girard.

Which makes sense, and is nothing short of hilarious.

I can't see any hints of it on the statue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html) however. Wouldn't expect to, since it's facing us, but...

[Zolem]

A way around all this literal jerkery can be done with just one question...
Do you know who killed off the entire Draketooth line?

[Aun-shi]

First panel is a bit chilling though - we have just clearly established that Durkon has the mats for one more resurrection. Will he need to?

All is not lost if they can find and res a cleric that's high enough but is v's flamincide spell ultimate end of bloodline with no way to res
Maybe Roy should of ask what happened 1st instead of where to find what happened and maybe at the same time to tell them to say it without any wise cracks

[Adama]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?

Watch, we'll find out that the rift is located in a side-valley between a pair of rock formations that they nicknamed "Gerard's Buttcheeks."

[Garwain]

Who says that the corpse knew in life where the rift is located at all? Then it did respond to the best of his knowledge.

Tip for Roy:
Question: "what are the numbers that code the location of the gate that is sealed by Girard and protected by his family when the first 2 numbers are the radial degrees, starting with zero being the direction of your nose, between which the gate is located, the next number the distance, expressed in meter (learn to use SI units) from your nose to the gate and the last number being the height difference between said gate and level of the neast water body greater than 200 square kilometer."

Answer: "euh......................... how long do I have to say euh before your spell runs out?"

[FolcoTook]

Why would Durkon prepare that exact spell if he didn't know he'd need it?

The power of plot compelled him.

[Mooglefrooglian]

Also, note the wording: "It lay between Girard's buttcheeks", which means it might not now. Perhaps it moves?

[Chobarth]

The goodness or evilness of an act does not depend on the goodness or evilness of the people upon whom the actor is acting. Showing mercy to good people is just as good as showing mercy to evil people. Murdering evil people is just as evil as murdering good people. Judge the act. Not the victims.

I didn't comment on the ACT's morality, I commented on the outcome. Does V need to worry about his afterlife? Perhaps - it's been argued to death. I'm merely pointing out that the dead Black Dragons destroyed by the spell likely tilted OOTSverse towards the good. Now, perhaps in the aggregate it ended up neutral with all the dead humanoids, and depending on the numbers it might have even shifted towards evil.

But the dragons, by and large, were evil and good riddance to them. Their "innocence" is abstract -- if I were a common villager in OOTSverse I'd shed no tears for the sudden removal of 1/4th of the Black Dragons from the world. "A good start", the villager might say... unconcerned about the morality of the person responsible. When the 'victims' are black dragons -- shrug.


Hijack of thread OFF - no further commentary about this subject in this thread from me.

[Ron Miel]

Is the corpse Orrin?

He looks very similar (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0816.html)
- same hair style and colouration
- same light blue shirt
- same dark blue trousers


But
- different tattoo
- tattoo on different side
- hasn't aged in 15 years.

Unless he has a different tattoo on each side. But that's not what Girard did. In flashback he clearly has one tattooed cheek, and one clean cheek.

[Doug Lampert]

Yeah, what other third level spell could he have prepared?
Cure Serious Wound, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Searing Light...

Speak with dead is unexpectedly appropriate here, when they're supposed to be prepared to fight Xykon.

Why in the world would a good cleric prepare Cure Serious Wound when he could prepare Speak With Dead instead and then spontaneously cast Cure Serious Wounds if that's the one he needs?

Why would he want dispel magic when against anyone he expects to fight he'll need greater dispell magic? Ordinary dispell can never succeed against a level 20+ caster (no, not even on a 20).

If Durkon is 15th level then he has 7 or 8 third level spells, even if he's prepared a few circles of protection and searing lights and even dispel magics he can still afford to waste one or two on utility spells. And at that level arguably anything BUT utility and information gathering spells is a waste of the slot, because he should not be using level 3 spells in combat unless they are quickened.

[Aun-shi]

Having thinking more maybe should ask in the order like this
1 what happened
2 where is ur high ranking cleric
3 where is the exact loc of girrands gate

I think durk was expecting a fight when they started to head there after they got of the flying carpet 1 res for each member of the grp

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[MesiDoomstalker]

I'm jumping on the bandwagon of "Its really in Girard's Buttcheeks" but I'm not discounting having several statues, artistry, and the actual corpse be viable options to search.

[Moorbo]

My bet is that the answer is literal. Remember that nobody knows what Girard's canyon look like from above. I'm hoping it is a depiction of Girard mooning the sky.

[One Skunk Todd]

Yo dawg, I heard you like rings of fire so I put a ring of fire around your ring of fire so you can contemplate the nature of the universe while you... OH MY GAWD WHAT DIED IN HERE! Somebody light a match!

[SaintRidley]

Much like the Oracle, you'd probably have to word your question exactly right to get what you want, like "What directions would I take from this room to reach the interdimensional rift located in the Desert on the western continent which Girard Draketooth defended with his family?"

I'm sure someone could even twist this.

"Go outside and walk toward the sand until you reach the Gate."

[oppyu]

"Using the scale of 0 degrees to 360 degrees forming a full circle and assuming due north is the starting point, in what direction is the gate?"

"Using the metric system of measuring length, how many kilometres away is the gate?"

"What path to the gate offers the least risk of death?

[t209]

That's why I didn't think the statue was Girard. That is a pretty clever hiding spot, too.

Or the statue of Butt cheeks is some sort of button that leads downstairs or upstairs to the gates' location (Like the stairs in Indiana jones and the last crusade).

[UtimaII]

Same here. I actually didn't realize that was a joke until I re-read the comic. For some reason, I have never associated "rift" with "buttocks". /shrug

I certainly didn't until you mentioned it. Apparently we are all wrong, Girad's Gate is not in the statue at all. (Or maybe it is, who knows? The only people who know for sure are dead/not revealing spoilers.)

[t209]

I wonder if Draketooths were being jerkass to the death or there is a button in Girard's statue's butt that opens a stair case to the portal.

[Querzis]

1 what happened

«Stuff»


2 where is ur high ranking cleric

«In the afterlife» assuming they even had one.


3 where is the exact loc of girrands gate

«On the rift.»


"Using the scale of 0 degrees to 360 degrees forming a full circle and assuming due north is the starting point, in what direction is the gate?"

Considering the fact that they are talking to a decaying corpse brain, I dont even have to be too literal or misinterpret anything here. The corpse would obviously just say «huh?»


"Using the metric system of measuring length, how many kilometres away is the gate?"

«0.05» the gate of the pyramid is like right next to them.


"What path to the gate offers the least risk of death?

«The safe one»

They are talking to a decaying corpse, just go read the description of «speak with dead» on page two. Yes or no question people, pretty much everything else can be taken the wrong way, too litterally or is simply too complicated.

[t209]

Or maybe they're being jerkass to the end.
Or since the gate is huge, it might be a button on the butt of the statue and opens the staircase like Indiana Jones and the last crusade.

[ferrodoxin]

People the only thing that is between Girard's lower cheeks is "Girard's Rift", which is what Roy asked....

Has nothing to do with Girard's Gate which is located in A RIFT in the canyon that in all likelihood is not called "Girard's Rift" :)

About speak with the dead having nothing to do with spirits..
Was Rich wrong before?
9th panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html)
Last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html)

[Fish]

So that's why it's a Windy Canyon.

[2xMachina]

A way around all this literal jerkery can be done with just one question...
Do you know who killed off the entire Draketooth line?

"No"

"Yes"
Only then, even if they knew exactly who, and asked:
"A wizard"
"A humanoid"
"Someone in black"
"Someone who casted Epic spells"

[Draconi Redfir]

yeahh it's unlikey the gate is anywhere near the statue, the azure city gate was already declared the smallest, and i beleive we saw a preveiw of the rift (sans gate) during the order of the scribble section. It was just a little taller then a person i beleive.

[oppyu]

I think after all this, the final question would be "DO YOU REALISE WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE THE DAMN WORLD HERE? THIS IS REALLY, REALLY FRUSTRATING!"

[cheezewizz2000]

I think
that Girard's Buttcheeks are a pair of mountains and the gate will be there.

[Souhiro]

Man... I didn't get it at first!
I tought it was about an statue of Girard, and the rift was between the buttcheeks, or as someone said before, a geographic point with that name.

But since I'm not a native english speaker...

[oppyu]

"Would any of your family members accept a resurrection from a lawful good cleric of Thor?"

[Chess Tyrant]

I'm gonna repost something I said on the first page, just because it seems to be relevant to this discussion but nobody else noticed it: the corpse doesn't say the rift LIES between Girard's buttcheeks. It says it LAY between Girard's buttcheeks. The difference could be significant, particularly if the corpse isn't talking about the Gate.

[doodthedud]

I laughed so hard when I saw "+v"

[zimmerwald1915]

I have nothing useful to contribute, so here's a fairly lame rehash of a running joke.

:mitd: Buttcheeks? What buttcheeks?

[Aun-shi]

I'm gonna repost something I said on the first page, just because it seems to be relevant to this discussion but nobody else noticed it: the corpse doesn't say the rift LIES between Girard's buttcheeks. It says it LAY between Girard's buttcheeks. The difference could be significant, particularly if the corpse isn't talking about the Gate.

Maybe a secret passage/tunnel in windy canyon which is covered with a illusion

[Gift Jeraff]

My bet is that the answer is literal. Remember that nobody knows what Girard's canyon look like from above. I'm hoping it is a depiction of Girard mooning the sky.Holy crap, now I want this to happen.

[rbetieh]

So is it somewhere on the statue? Or was that particular dead guy given fake information?

I love how Durkon calls Speak With Dead a rude thing to do. Malack would probably agree with him. Xykon on the other hand didnt care at all. Redcloaks feeling on the matter might have changed since DoD, but thats speculative. Great point of comparison.

[Jay R]

After all, when searching, how many people are going to look up the statues ass?

Well, Gygax taught me long ago not to start by looking in its mouth.


Well, we all know how reliable the Crayons of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) are, but that strip shows Girard's Gate being taller than Girard himself.

But on the desert sands. To reach it from a statue in the top of a ziggurat, you would need to find a way to go down.

[WindStruck]

They could have just named all the landmarks and important locations really confusing things.

Girard's rift: the wide open space the ziggurat is in.

Girard's buttcheeks: a rock formation consisting of 2 large, round faces.

Middle of nowhere: name of the ziggurat.

How should i know: name of the study.

[Ron Miel]

I'm gonna repost something I said on the first page, just because it seems to be relevant to this discussion but nobody else noticed it: the corpse doesn't say the rift LIES between Girard's buttcheeks. It says it LAY between Girard's buttcheeks. The difference could be significant, particularly if the corpse isn't talking about the Gate.

It's probably just a mistake. Great author Rich may be, but he does tend to make the odd spelling/ grammatical error or two.

And in some dialects, lay could be the same as lies. The speaker would sound a bit rustic, though.

[rewinn]

The beauty is you don't have to care for butt humour. Roy and Durkon sure don't! Just sympathise with them for this strip. :smallbiggrin:

:belkar: Heh-heh ... Durkon and Roy are the butts of a joke!

[Aun-shi]

Wait those ppl might not be v's fault I remember too that he only killed 1 bloodline of black dragon unless they interfamily mating lol

Maybe those pple they really are declining a res from durk to despite helping soon

[nerd4life123]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?
My thoughts exactly.

[DoctorIllithid]

First time I've ever laughed out loud at a comic. Great work, Giant.

[SteveDJ]

People the only thing that is between Girard's lower cheeks is "Girard's Rift", which is what Roy asked....

Has nothing to do with Girard's Gate which is located in A RIFT in the canyon that in all likelihood is not called "Girard's Rift" :)


I'm gonna repost something I said on the first page, just because it seems to be relevant to this discussion but nobody else noticed it: the corpse doesn't say the rift LIES between Girard's buttcheeks. It says it LAY between Girard's buttcheeks. The difference could be significant, particularly if the corpse isn't talking about the Gate.

This has nothing to do with any statue. ferrodoxin is trying to say the same thing I'm going to say here:

Go back and look at the 9th frame again. What was Roy's question? "Where is Girard's Rift?" -- that question has nothing to do with gates, or "The Rift", or any of the previous questions; it only has to do with Girard's rift.

If someone asked you where your rift was, the answer would be similar. And if you still don't get it - replace 'rift' with 'crack', ok?

Now forget about some statue. Roy needs to ask better questions.

[Parlik]

Much like the Oracle, you'd probably have to word your question exactly right to get what you want, like "What directions would I take from this room to reach the interdimensional rift located in the Desert on the western continent which Girard Draketooth defended with his family?"

I'm sure someone could even twist this.

Yeah... Out!

[Chess Tyrant]

And in some dialects, lay could be the same as lies. The speaker would sound a bit rustic, though.

We get to hear a little of the way Girard talks in 694/695, and he doesn't seem to have that sort of dialect. It's probable the rest of the clan doesn't, either.

My assumption would be that the corpse is speaking in the past tense because Girard died before this guy did.

[Krim]

Seems increasingly obvious to me that this strip is majorly about how Speak with the Dead can be rendered useless is the DM decides to be a weasel...


"Would any of your family members accept a resurrection from a lawful good cleric of Thor?"
"Yes"

OK...Which memeber of your family would accept a resurrection from a lawful good cleric of Thor?

"The Lawful Good one".

Which member of your family was Lawful Good?

"Sarah".

Where does Sarah's corpse lies?

"In our home".

Now, let's us be smart...Yay!! we are gonna identify her without fail:

Which color of clothing was Sarah wearing at the time of her death.

"Her favourite one".

AAAAAAARGGHHHHHH

[homeslice]

A most excellent joke.:smallsmile:

[Forikroder]

if i had to guess, Girard personally named the area where the gte was located "girards butcheeks" and used other such naming scheme in a purposeful effort to prevent speak with dead being a legitimate way of obtaining location

[Mistre]

Am I crazy for thinking that maybe the gate is between the buttcheeks of Girard's statue that sowed on a precious comic?

[silvadel]

Um -- shouldnt Durkon not remember anything about their first encounter with the oracle -- I mean not even Roy remembered that on the cloud.

[oppyu]

He would still remember that the Oracle's original answer to 'Where is Xykon' was 'In his throne room'.

[Forikroder]

Um -- shouldnt Durkon not remember anything about their first encounter with the oracle -- I mean not even Roy remembered that on the cloud.

they do vaguely sorta remember what happened, its not like its a completel blank with the answers thrown in so its not completely impossible a strong impression like the Oracle being tricky about answers would remain

or perhaps thats jsut general knowledge when dealing with Oracles

[The MunchKING]

So it's fairly obviously talking about the big statue out in front right?

[King of Nowhere]

I put my money on the buttcheecks of the statue, thanks.

[Reikenbach]

Well, if it's a small rift like Soon's gate, then it could feasibly be between the statue's bronze cheeks.

[BaronOfHell]

Um -- shouldnt Durkon not remember anything about their first encounter with the oracle -- I mean not even Roy remembered that on the cloud.

Durkon remembers he asked the oracle a (two) question(s) and the answer(s) he got. Considering their dissapointment after his and Roy's initial "solo"-visit, I'd not be surprised if he doesn't think too highly about the way the oracle answers questions.

Regarding this strip. How many SWtD can Durkon cast, how many questions does each give and if we assume Roy asks in a way he gets the answers he wants, is it then likely in the next strip, we'll get a recap of the new information the order gained?

[Forikroder]

Durkon remembers he asked the oracle a (two) question(s) and the answer(s) he got. Considering their dissapointment after his and Roy's initial "solo"-visit, I'd not be surprised if he doesn't think too highly about the way the oracle answers questions.

Regarding this strip. How many SWtD can Durkon cast, how many questions does each give and if we assume Roy asks in a way he gets the answers he wants, is it then likely in the next strip, we'll get a recap of the new information the order gained?

he said he had it prepared, but he didnt say he had it prepared multiple times so most likely only has one casting and the number of questions he gets is based on level so most likely next time we go back well see a very annoyed Roy asking his final question after asking an undisclosed amount of questions

[Anteros]

Girard's "rift" is his butt hole guys. For those few of you who didn't get it. I'm sorry to be crass on here, but considering the Giant is the one who made the joke in the first place, it's probably ok.

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, if it's a small rift like Soon's gate, then it could feasibly be between the statue's bronze cheeks.

According to the Crayon Trial, Girard's Gate looks smaller than Dorukan's gate, but larger than people.


Regarding this strip. How many SWtD can Durkon cast, how many questions does each give and if we assume Roy asks in a way he gets the answers he wants, is it then likely in the next strip, we'll get a recap of the new information the order gained?

Depending on Durkon's caster level, they can get three or four more questions from this casting. After that we don't know how many times Durkon's prepared the spell, although he theoretically could cast it five times a day.

[Quild]

I still have a feeling since a few strips (since RC killed Tsukiko) that The Giant tries a lot to give an answer about forum questions.

The answer "he didn't prepared it" wasn't bad for "Why doesn't Durkon use SwtD", but rule of funny made The Giant make a comic about it!

But maybe this strip was intended since long.

[term3186]

About speak with the dead having nothing to do with spirits..
Was Rich wrong before?
9th panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html)
Last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html)

I would say this can be explained a couple of different ways. They can both be explained by the Rule of Funny, especially since they're both a couple of throwaway lines. In addition, the comment by Xykon doesn't have to mean anything - the fact that he doesn't bother with the nuances of spell casting (see the battle against the ghosts) may simply mean that he doesn't realize that Speak With Dead doesn't actually recall the immortal soul. (and redcloak doesn't bother explaining because he knows Xykon doesn't care)

[Doug Lampert]

Durkon remembers he asked the oracle a (two) question(s) and the answer(s) he got. Considering their dissapointment after his and Roy's initial "solo"-visit, I'd not be surprised if he doesn't think too highly about the way the oracle answers questions.

Regarding this strip. How many SWtD can Durkon cast, how many questions does each give and if we assume Roy asks in a way he gets the answers he wants, is it then likely in the next strip, we'll get a recap of the new information the order gained?

I'm going to assume Durkon is now level 14-15.

Durkon can cast as many SWtD as he has prepared. A cleric of his level could prepare more than 20 of them if he goes all out. But it's exceedingly unlikely that he'd have prepared more than one. Also, each body can only be questioned once per week. So they're basically going with this body only till tommorrow.

Roy gets 7 questions per spell (half Durkon's level, round down). He's used 3.

By the spell description: The corpse’s knowledge is limited to what the creature knew during life, including the languages it spoke (if any). Answers are usually brief, cryptic, or repetitive. ... This spell does not let you actually speak to the person (whose soul has departed). It instead draws on the imprinted knowledge stored in the corpse. The partially animated body retains the imprint of the soul that once inhabited it, and thus it can speak with all the knowledge that the creature had while alive. The corpse, however, cannot learn new information. ... Indeed, it can’t even remember being questioned.

DougL

[The Pilgrim]

Old Girard trained his people well... :smallbiggrin:

[Doug Lampert]

I still have a feeling since a few strips (since RC killed Tsukiko) that The Giant tries a lot to give an answer about forum questions.

I seriously doubt it myself. The VAST majority of forum questions are utterly and completely predictable. In many cases the forum questions are asked only because Rich has BLATANTLY set them up.

Others follow from the characters making routine use of their class abilities in ordinary ways.

Then forum posters try to claim when Rich answers the questions that it's in response to forum questions. No, if Rich couldn't anticipate that someone would wonder about Speak With Dead in this situation then he'd be an utter incompetent. It's an obvious move, the only question was "does Durkon have it prepared".

DougL

[Enero Irontoad]

I may be wrong, but I have the feeling that Rich would chuckle/shake his head/sigh at all the guesses that what the corpse said is a clue.

Judging from what Roy knows, he should ask the corpse who killed the Draketooths. Of course, he probably won't get a useful answer because the dead guy couldn't have known it was Vaarsuvius. But Roy doesn't know that, so it would be worth a try.

[Mastikator]

OH YES, it burns so good!

[ScrapperTBP]

As people have said it might be the statue. The rift cannot move unless the ritual is cast on it and I doubt that happened. I find it out of (what I believed to be) Girard's character to build a statue of himself around the rift. We'll see I guess

[Forikroder]

As people have said it might be the statue. The rift cannot move unless the ritual is cast on it and I doubt that happened. I find it out of (what I believed to be) Girard's character to build a statue of himself around the rift. We'll see I guess

i wouldnt say its in Girards character to put it in the first place people see upon entering the Pyramid, and if it was in the statue it wouldnt be between his butcheeks

i think roy needs to get more specific while not being too specific like "where is the gate that Girard was given custody of" or "when Girard came to teh windy cavern to hide the gate where did he first cast a spell"

theres no way he can completely narrow down where the gate is but he needs to at least narrow down the general location so he kows if its in the Pyramid

[Fish]

In other news, the word "buttcheeks" is trending on giantitp.com.

[Othniel Edden]

Yeah, what other third level spell could he have prepared?
Cure Serious Wound, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Searing Light...

Speak with dead is unexpectedly appropriate here, when they're supposed to be prepared to fight Xykon.

Actually they were chasing Nale and Sabine, who are murderers. Speak with dead could be very handy in tracking them.

[DougTheHead]

As people have said it might be the statue. The rift cannot move unless the ritual is cast on it and I doubt that happened. I find it out of (what I believed to be) Girard's character to build a statue of himself around the rift. We'll see I guess

Obviously Girard surrounded the rift with a gem, shoved it up his "rift," and had his followers cast Flesh to Stone on him :smallwink:

[pita]

I put my money on the buttcheecks of the statue, thanks.

That's where my money's at as well. It's Rich's style, though he never said things that blatantly before. Might be wrong, though.

[Jay R]

i wouldnt say its in Girards character to put it in the first place people see upon entering the Pyramid,...

We have no idea what Girard expected people to see upon entering the pyramid, since most of the higher level phantasms have run out.

[DaOldeWolf]

What a weird place for the rift to be.....

That makes me wonder if the last gate will be in an even weirder place.

[Fish]

We've gone from thinking the statue was Girard, to thinking the statue has a Gate in its butt. Who knows what we'll think after #846?

[Crisis21]

R.O.T.F.L.
That is all that needs be said.

[Trekkin]

In assuming that the dead guy's actually saying the rift's in the statue, aren't we assuming the corpse is regarding the statue as Girard? I'm not exceedingly familiar with the particulars of divination as regards artistic licence, but it'd be perhaps an odd way of speaking, especially given past tense, to call the statue "Girard" as opposed to "the statue of Girard".

Then again, the dead guy didn't answer the question as regards the Rift at all. Roy asked about the present location of the Rift, and the guy responded in past tense, giving the past location of the Rift. The only scenario I can construct where this would be the most valid answer is if the Rift were destroyed (which we know it not to be), so it seems to me the guy is, in fact, talking about Girard's intergluteal cleft, which would have ceased to exist after his death.

It may in fact be the case that, unlike the Gate, Girard never really considered the Rift to be his, and expressed this to his associates.

[Forikroder]

We have no idea what Girard expected people to see upon entering the pyramid, since most of the higher level phantasms have run out.

that room would be the first that a group would be checking though and if they had the resources to find the pyramid then theyd find the statue it would be better to put the gate in an unaccesable area so to exhaust potential enemies resources with traps and illusions before they even get close

i mean OoTS got to the pyramid and got inside with one casting of true seeing

[unleet]

so it seems to me the guy is, in fact, talking about Girard's intergluteal cleft, which would have ceased to exist after his death.

Or at least would have ceased to exist after sufficient decay.

[The Succubus]

So just to clarify -

Is Girard's Rift actually a Windy Canyon? :smallwink:

[Anarion]

That was such cheap humor...but it was glorious. :smallbiggrin:

I really like the last panel for lightening the mood after everything that has been going on over the last few comics, but at the same time the fact that Durkon had speak with dead prepped (and at least a few more questions left) shows actual progress too.

[Forikroder]

That was such cheap humor...but it was glorious. :smallbiggrin:

I really like this panel for lightening the mood after everything that has been going on over the last few comics, but at the same time the fact that Durkon had speak with dead prepped (and at least a few more questions left) shows actual progress too.

i wouldnt put too much import in him having it prepared, as good cleric he can drop any spell for a healing spell so theres no reason not to prepare a bunch of different spells that might come in handy then jsut drop them for healing later

[Roland Itiative]

I guess having a rift up your ass is the exact opposite of the Paladin tradition of having a stick up theirs... Is this gesture a philosophical statement? :smalltongue:

Also, shouldn't this rift be larger? Or is the rift in an as of yet unseen Girard statue? Or maybe not a statue at all?

[Anarion]

i wouldnt put too much import in him having it prepared, as good cleric he can drop any spell for a healing spell so theres no reason not to prepare a bunch of different spells that might come in handy then jsut drop them for healing later

That's true, but there's no particular reason to prep speak with dead as one of those spells. It shows that he at least expected the situation might come up or alternately that his general preparations are well thought out to cover a lot of situations.

[SoC175]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?Well, since he obviously doesn't want to help them, cracking a joke around a hint of truth as opposed to a joke that has nothing to do at all with the actual questions seems like a worse choice

[t209]

Do you wonder it it is 20th strip anniversary of death of Azurite Resistance (and tranformation of Azurite Island from Nicaea (Temporary) to Trebizond (Permanent)). Call them terrorists for those who wanted to support Gobbotopia.
P.S- I can change it to Azurites' Skyrim era Solstheim
Dunmers refugees retreated there after their volcano exploded and lizardfolks invaded.for those who wanted to tell me that Trebizond Fell to turks.

[Michaeler]

I am reminded of the Blood Sword books in which there are two rounded hills in the afterlife which the locals have nicknamed as being the goddess of death's ... other rounded bits. Your guide through the underworld suggests this seems like a bad thing to call them given that the goddess of death is not known for her love of jokes at her expense.

[FujinAkari]

Well, since he obviously doesn't want to help them, cracking a joke around a hint of truth as opposed to a joke that has nothing to do at all with the actual questions seems like a worse choice

Yes, but Speak with Dead requires them to tell the truth, so he can't just say a -complete- nonsequitor

[SoC175]

Hes not speaking with the soul of the Draketooth here, Speak with dead allows you to speak with the informations that are left in the corpse rotting brain. Its rarely very helpful unless you ask yes or no question.That's the D&D version, from what has been shown in the comics it seems that OOtS-version is different and does indeed speak with the soul.

The goblin asked for Xykon's key and Roy's father scolding him for not calling his dead parents more often (no clerics capable of speak with the dead where you live?)

[Math_Mage]

Speak With Dead probably does just what the title says it does, rather than following the exact spell description. Easier for non-playing readers, and it follows the comic's treatment of SWD so far.


Do you wonder it it is 20th strip anniversary of death of Azurite Resistance (and tranformation of Azurite Island from Nicaea (Temporary) to Trebizond (Permanent)). Call them terrorists for those who wanted to support Gobbotopia.
P.S- I can change it to Azurites' Skyrim era Solstheim
Dunmers refugees retreated there after their volcano exploded and lizardfolks invaded.for those who wanted to tell me that Trebizond Fell to turks.

I'll be honest, I didn't wonder about that even a little bit.

[SoC175]

Yes, but Speak with Dead requires them to tell the truth, so he can't just say a -complete- nonsequitor If askes such open questions he can. He's bound to answer truthfully to the letter of the question, he can violate the spirit as much as he wants. Rift is a completly unspecific term, thus he can truthfully answer about any rift he can think of

[Alex Warlorn]

We've gone from thinking the statue was Girard, to thinking the statue has a Gate in its butt. Who knows what we'll think after #846?

One million quatloos says that gateway in the statue's rear!

[Alex Warlorn]

I put my money on the buttcheecks of the statue, thanks.

Put my money down too!

[Morph Bark]

I bet it's actually between Girard's buttcheeks. The statue's that is.

[Gorm_the_DBA]

Actually, the fact that Durkon managed to have the right spell prepared mind-boggles me.

Doesn't boggle me at all...

You're on a major Search and Find mission...you prepare *anything* you have at your disposal that could get you information.

[sockmonkey]

As long as he keeps asking open-ended questions the answers can continue to come from left field as the GM will twist them, obscure them, and in all ways attempt to misdirect the divination.Heh, an open-ended question about buttcheeks.:smallbiggrin:

Put me in the camp of people who think the buttcheeks area geographical feature.

[Incom]

Now we have another reason to hope we don't hear a giant "KRACKOOOOOM".

:wink:

[Darklady2831]

Am I the only one who thought "Hmm, Between his buttcheeks? Throne!"

[rbetieh]

Heh, an open-ended question about buttcheeks.:smallbiggrin:

Put me in the camp of people who think the buttcheeks area geographical feature.

I am staying in the actual human anatomy camp, not because I find it reasonable but because I am holding out for the gate being a pair of magical underwear.

Also, what if one of the kids is also named Girard...Girard jr.....uh oh :smalleek:

[North_Ranger]

Well, we all know how reliable the Crayons of Time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) are, but that strip shows Girard's Gate being taller than Girard himself.

Well, that is just fitting, since Girard seems to be a giant ass :smalltongue:

[Oakianus]

I only read the first three or four pages, but is anyone thinking that it might be in a throne, a la Soon's Gate? Except... a bit lower?

That would explain the tense issue, at least. Girard could have taken Potsy's advice and just sat on it.

[Bengui]

I'd like to play the voice of reason here : The gate is not between the statue's buttcheeks !

[North_Ranger]

I'd like to play the voice of reason here : The gate is not between the statue's buttcheeks !

Why not? The rift is a horrifying hole in the fabric of the universe from which come out things that terrify people and where nobody wants to enter.

It makes perfect sense it would be between the statue's buttcheeks :smalltongue:

[term3186]

I doubt the gate is actually IN the statue. Though we don't know the exact size of the statue (we only saw it from a distance with OOTS in the extreme foreground), it's reasonable to figure that it's probably about Girard's height, or perhaps a bit larger (statues tend to be bigger than the person they represent after all, unless it's actually a Stoned Girard), but either way, the rift is much too big to fit in that statue's crack. This was probably just a case of the corpse giving the proverbial middle finger to OOTS

[MyNameIsSecret]

Well, it wasn't much of a story development, but it made me laugh. :smallbiggrin:

Great comic, Giant.

[Ping Pong Along]

Whatever your opinion of Girard's family...

Don't forget all the innocent dragons.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html

If not for this strip, I would agree with you.

[Snails]

If askes such open questions he can. He's bound to answer truthfully to the letter of the question, he can violate the spirit as much as he wants. Rift is a completly unspecific term, thus he can truthfully answer about any rift he can think of

Agreed. The answering spirit must be truthful, and that is normally useful enough. But if you are a Chaotic Paranoid family with a sense of humor, then cracking jokes about how your corpse will answer truthfully to every obvious question is marvelous gambit.

The standard joking return (within Clan Draketooth) to a standard joking question is an entirely legitimate and truthful answer by the letter of the law. The joke is knowledge that the corpse holds.

I love it. So, no, the Rift is no where near the statue. Yes, I went there, too, but Girard figured out how to not let a 2nd level spell spill secrets so easily. Speak of Dead can still work, but the OotS will have to be much more insightful about the exact questions to ask -- pedestrian fishing expeditions are pretty much sunk.

[t209]

Agreed. The answering spirit must be truthful, and that is normally useful enough. But if you are a Chaotic Paranoid family with a sense of humor, then cracking jokes about how your corpse will answer truthfully to every obvious question is marvelous gambit.

The standard joking return (within Clan Draketooth) to a standard joking question is an entirely legitimate and truthful answer by the letter of the law. The joke is knowledge that the corpse holds.

I love it. So, no, the Rift is no where near the statue. Yes, I went there, too, but Girard figured out how to not let a 2nd level spell spill secrets so easily. Speak of Dead can still work, but the OotS will have to be much more insightful about the exact questions to ask -- pedestrian fishing expeditions are pretty much sunk.
What if it was a button or switch to secret room?
DO you think Draketooths will be example of Chaotic extremism (Like Miko but more extremist)? They won't even help the Order in death.

[Jay R]

They could have just named all the landmarks and important locations really confusing things.
...
Middle of nowhere: name of the ziggurat..

Nowhere is a good bit east of Somewhere and a little south of Anywhere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0226.html).

[Khaethrag]

Durkon, singing:
A corpse is a corpse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a corpse, of course,
Except, of course, for me, of course,
'Cause I've got "Speak With Dead!"

[Snails]

My personal opinion is the Desert Boom Trap was a definite evil act, nonetheless I would be willing to bet that Girard himself and most of Clan Draketooth were firmly CG.

Girard has his reasons (even if they do not rate as justifications in my book).

The Clan has spent most of each of their lives, hanging out in the desert, thinking up Screw Yous for every likely avenue of attack for about a century. Due to Girard's predisposition they have probably spent a bit overlarge a portion of their time obsessing over a Azurite Paladin invasion, but they clearly know their stuff about evading standard adventuring tactics.

It is a pity we will not get to see the "fully operational" Draketooth Star in action. I bet it would have been a humorous adventuring hell.

[Kork3.14]

I wonder if the gate is Girard Draketooth's staue's ass for real! That would be funny.:smallyuk:

[Riverdance]

Well, it wasn't much of a story development, but it made me laugh. :smallbiggrin:

Great comic, Giant.

Likewise, not what I was expecting, but funny.

[Aurabolt]

Yeah, I have to jump on the whole "lack of Roy's foresight" bandwagon with Speak with Dead. Personally, I don't even see a problem with the spell itself-especially for a Good Cleric-since the body does technically still remain dead.

Though this whole ordeal doesn't make Roy look very smart; kinda dumbs him down when he was so prepared for the Oracle.

[t209]

I wonder if the gate is Girard Draketooth's staue's ass for real! That would be funny.:smallyuk:

Or a key to the room with the gate.

[Porthos]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html

If not for this strip, I would agree with you.

You know, I am starting to think that might just be the most misunderstood strip in the entire history of OOTS. At the very least, it's in the Top Ten.

Let me unpack, to use the lingo of today, that strip. At least how I see it.

Miko is ranting and raving how these obviously reckless and possibly evil people (remember how she views the Order) have just destroyed a being of great wisdom and age. She is litterally yelling in Roy's face and, from prior experience, might snap at any second.

Roy, trying to think of anything, anything, to get her to stop and shut up, just blurts out that it was a chromatic dragon.

Miko stops on a dime and says, more or less, "Oh, alright then".

Ignoring Elan's little quip at the end, this strip is mocking/satirizing Miko's Black and White Worldview. She doesn't ask for any particulars. She doesn't ask what might have happened one way or another. She doesn't try to figure out any mitigating circumstances (one way or the other).

She simply goes "You Fiend/Oh, all right then" on an exceedingly meager base of information.

Now, of course, the satire works on several different levels. But that's the main one. The comic is basically saying that Miko is so simpleminded that she views the probablilites inherent in Always X Evil (which isn't Always of course) as enough without any further comment.

[SinsI]

I really, really hope that they are not going to spend the next few strips disproving or confirming the theory of "Girrard's buttocks = on the ass of Girrard's statue".

[The Cat Goddess]

The gate is at the end of the Windy Canyon, where the wind enters it.
The entire place is one big fart joke!

The dead managed to answer the questions truthfully so it has to be a place called "Girard's Buttcheeks" and it's unlikely the Rift is portable.
What would you call buttcheeks? the entry point of all the wind of a canyon.

I was more thinking where the wind blows out... Normally one does not have wind blowing in through one's buttcheeks...

Right? :smalleek:


Yeah, what other third level spell could he have prepared?
Cure Serious Wound, Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Searing Light...

Speak with dead is unexpectedly appropriate here, when they're supposed to be prepared to fight Xykon.

A Good-Aligned Cleric doesn't need to prepare "Cure" spells... and since a Cleric can't reset his spells during the day like a Wizard can, it sometimes pays off to prepare some odd-ball spells. Especially knowing that you can convert those odd-ball spells to "cure" spells as needed... without having to convert more important spells like Dispel Magic or Invisibility Purge.

[phantomreader42]

Durkon, singing:
A corpse is a corpse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a corpse, of course,
Except, of course, for me, of course,
'Cause I've got "Speak With Dead!"

That just officially became the verbal component for the bardic version of the spell. :)

I'm not even going to bother checking if it's normally a bard spell, it will be in any game I play from now on.

[phantomreader42]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0207.html

If not for this strip, I would agree with you.

Yes, because the woman who bisected the unarmed octogenarian is such a wonderful moral example...

[AGow95]

As much as I would love for the rift to actually be in the statues buttcheeks, they do say that the sapphire one was the smallest, so unless Giraud had a bottom-hole larger than a medium sized gemstone I think it'll be somewhere else

[Jiggs]

I for one, don't think the gate is in the statue, or between two hills that are called "Girads rift"
It is ust as it is, Roy asked for a rift of Girad and the corpse answered where a rift of Girad was/is (if you count the statue) that is what a LC paranoid character would answer, on DM descretion.
Let's just face it, help won't come from the Draketooth's directly or freely.

[Jiggs]

As I said "Help won't come from the Drakethooth's" that brings another thing to my mind.
I suppose all the Gatekeepers have their way of´thinking of how to protect the Gate best .
Think about it, even the LG paladins would't spill the Secret of the Gate and its protection/location to the Order just like that. The circumstances had to be dire and they had to have a basis to trust them.
You wouldn't reveal the information to any adventurer or showing up character if you were in their shoes, would you?
And the fact that they had been killed all at once (by a member of that party, if they know that or not) being raised paranoid surely doesn't help trusting the first guys to give them the information you have been guarding for generations you know the existance of reality depends on.
Of course saying 'hey I want to help you' because what else would anyone say? 'Hey, I killed you/I want to take advantage of the Secret Gate you have been protecting'? Yeah sure :smalltongue:

[Kish]

Eeee Gods. Not this again.
Not again, Chobarth. Still. Because you're wrong. The comic's author disagrees with you, the D&D books disagree with you, and you're wrong. Killing creatures because "their race is evil" is itself a thoroughly evil action. You can keep asserting otherwise as many times as you like, of course.

Old Girard trained his people well... :smallbiggrin:
I'm afraid I disagree. He trained his people really, really badly.

[Michaeler]

A good question might be "Is Girard's Gate inside the Ziggurat we found your body in?"

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm afraid I disagree. He trained his people really, really badly.
On the contrary. He trained his people well...to do something that is inconvenient for the OOTS, and for the world. The content of the training regimen is not a commentary on how well it was instilled in the subjects.

[Jiggs]

And as for questioning the Oracle and "Speak to the Dead"
Wysiwyg - what you see is what you get.
Roy asked a good question, but making the mistake of leaving out Soon's Gate. Hey the Oracle even hinted on him "wouldn't you rather ask something simpler?" and Roy insisted
In the end, in RPG if you are not completely stupid and you need a clue from this scource in my experiance the DM will give it to you.
If it is not in the design for you to succeed at this point heaven and hell will work together to stop you.

[Darkfyre99]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but my first thought was, "It would be just like Girard to name two landmarks on either side of the rift "Girard's Buttcheeks," just to confuse anyone trying to get information about the rift's location.

[Kish]

On the contrary. He trained his people well...to do something that is inconvenient for the OOTS, and for the world.

And is having an entirely deleterious effect on Girard's presumed goal, to protect the Gate.

The content of the training regimen is not a commentary on how well it was instilled in the subjects.
If you consider "well" a synonym for "thoroughly," there's no question he trained them thoroughly.

[t209]

I kinda hate Draketooths now! They're too xenophobic to even get up from the dead by Lawful Good. I hope their "speak with dead" moment is not a joke or we'll type em in TV Trope as Scrappy!

[FujinAkari]

And is having an entirely deleterious effect on Girard's presumed goal, to protect the Gate.

Well, to be fair, Familicide really isn't something which Girard could have foreseen. If I was ultra-paranoid, and suddenly I found myself dead with no recollection of being attacked, and then a Lawful Good force wanted to raise me... the conclusion that is being made isn't that outlandish :P

[Forikroder]

i dont think girard can be blamed for how the corpse is acting while under speak with dead, by the rules they act cryptic i mean its not like girard killed some of his family members to drill what they said during speak with dead what the corpse is saying is exactly how the spell in the OoTSverse works

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0693.html

maybe Elan was right and crammed bnetween the statues butcheeks is a crystal that teleports you to a mini world inside the crystal that Girard created and moved the Rift into

[AbuSpud]

when I read the title of this strip, before actually clicking on the link, my first thought was: "omg, this is the strip where belkar will draw his last breath"

phew, I've never been so glad to be wrong before.

You were worried about nothing - there will never be a strip where Belkar draws his last breath.


RICH will draw Belkar's last breath. :smallyuk:

[Forikroder]

And is having an entirely deleterious effect on Girard's presumed goal, to protect the Gate.

i disagree, the OoTS could easily be team evil or the linear guild, anything that prevents the OoTS from getting near the gate similarily prevents team evil from getting near the gate

[sockmonkey]

It retrospect it might be a double bluff.
Maybe the rift is in the butt of another larger statue of Girard which itself is located in the valley between the hills which are also named Girard's buttcheeks.
It's twisty enough to be plausible and Rich does sometimes pull the double-reversal on us.

[Kish]

i dont think girard can be blamed for how the corpse is acting while under speak with dead, by the rules they act cryptic
One completely-not-cryptic word: "Pocket."

i disagree, the OoTS could easily be team evil or the linear guild, anything that prevents the OoTS from getting near the gate similarily prevents team evil from getting near the gate
The Order of the Stick manifestly is not anything but the Order of the Stick.

Speculating that Girard training his family to be obnoxiously obfuscatory when questioned after death will in any way hamper anyone evil-aligned who isn't named Belkar or Vaarsuvius would be pure speculation, and speculation which I wouldn't want to be responsible for, personally.

However, note that when I say his training was very bad, I'm not solely--or even, in this instance, primarily--talking about the responses to Speak with Dead. I'm also thinking of the "and don't let anyone Lawful Good resurrect you if you die, because anyone Lawful Good is the enemy to us!"

[ferrodoxin]

I would say this can be explained a couple of different ways. They can both be explained by the Rule of Funny, especially since they're both a couple of throwaway lines. In addition, the comment by Xykon doesn't have to mean anything - the fact that he doesn't bother with the nuances of spell casting (see the battle against the ghosts) may simply mean that he doesn't realize that Speak With Dead doesn't actually recall the immortal soul. (and redcloak doesn't bother explaining because he knows Xykon doesn't care)
Its not what Xykon says, the goblin itself says: "you have wrested my spirit from its eternal rest"

:)

[Mr. Pants]

So let me get this straight...a corpse just told Roy up yours?

[Kish]

Nooo...

A corpse just told Roy "up Girard's."

[Forikroder]

One completely-not-cryptic word: "Pocket."

The Order of the Stick manifestly is not anything but the Order of the Stick.

Speculating that Girard training his family to be obnoxiously obfuscatory when questioned after death will in any way hamper anyone evil-aligned who isn't named Belkar or Vaarsuvius would be pure speculation, and speculation which I wouldn't want to be responsible for, personally.

However, note that when I say his training was very bad, I'm not solely--or even, in this instance, primarily--talking about the responses to Speak with Dead. I'm also thinking of the "and don't let anyone Lawful Good resurrect you if you die, because anyone Lawful Good is the enemy to us!"
the Corpse has no senory abilities, the Corpse has no idea at all what is asking it the questions, it is not in any way concious or at all in control of its actions

the only reason its answering questions is becuase magic took information from its brain and answers a certain number of questions in the most cryptic way possible that has nothing to dow tih Girards training and everything to do with how the spell functions

[Kish]

Because apparently I was insufficiently clear:

The goblin corpse Redcloak questioned was not at all cryptic. Maybe that's just because of Rich deciding to handle the spell differently in the two different strips. But that would be speculation, and, thus, not something to assert as if it were established. If I was to speculate, I would be far more likely to choose "the Draketooth spirit is deliberately trying to be unhelpful, and the goblin was not" over "it doesn't mean anything."

[TheBossBoy]

My only comment:
XD

[Forikroder]

Because apparently I was insufficiently clear:

The goblin corpse Redcloak questioned was not at all cryptic. Maybe that's just because of Rich deciding to handle the spell differently in the two different strips. But that would be speculation, and, thus, not something to assert as if it were established. If I was to speculate, I would be far more likely to choose "the Draketooth spirit is deliberately trying to be unhelpful, and the goblin was not" over "it doesn't mean anything."

not long before (after?) the strip where the goblin is ressurected, Roys father apears and and comments on speak with dead

since we know from what Durkon said that the spell does not raise the soul (he specifically saids ask the BODY a few questions) and he considers it a bit rude (instead of something thats obviously evil as in forcibly ripping a soul from there alignments heaven and force it to answer your questions) i think its quite clear that during the dungeon of Dorukon that was simply the rule of funny acting

theres also the Goblin being completely non-cryptic (telling Xykon specifically where the keys were) and Durkon specifically saying the spell makes them answer cryptically

[Mr. Pants]

:smallmad: That corpse just called my mother a loser! I'm going to disintegrate it...

[MrShadetree]

Great stuff. I wonder If the Draketooths are taking bets in the afterlife on who looks at the rear of the staue first.

[Tobimaro]

And he knocked them dead! :smallbiggrin:

Very nice update, Giant.

[thepsyker]

One completely-not-cryptic word: "Pocket."

The Order of the Stick manifestly is not anything but the Order of the Stick.

Speculating that Girard training his family to be obnoxiously obfuscatory when questioned after death will in any way hamper anyone evil-aligned who isn't named Belkar or Vaarsuvius would be pure speculation, and speculation which I wouldn't want to be responsible for, personally.

However, note that when I say his training was very bad, I'm not solely--or even, in this instance, primarily--talking about the responses to Speak with Dead. I'm also thinking of the "and don't let anyone Lawful Good resurrect you if you die, because anyone Lawful Good is the enemy to us!"
And we are assuming that speak with dead tells the summoned soul, assuming it is a summoned the soul, the casters alignment why? They aren't questioning the same individual who refused resurrection, so for all this individual knows, assuming that this is actually the individual talking, he was killed and then his soul was ripped from the after life in order to be asked questions about a gate he has dedicated his life to protecting. Why exactly are we expecting him to be helpful? especially when Durkan specifically mentioned that speak with dead answers tend to be cryptic.

And then I get to the last part of your post which will teach me not to read so quick.

[ManuelSacha]

So... Durkon only has enough diamond dust for one Resurrection, huh?

That sounds extremely ominous...

[Mindfreak]

Aye, truly a great joker has lost from us.

R.I.P.
?. Draketooth
Father, Brother, Beloved Comedian
"Between...Girard's...buttcheeks..."

[rbetieh]

not long before (after?) the strip where the goblin is ressurected, Roys father apears and and comments on speak with dead

since we know from what Durkon said that the spell does not raise the soul (he specifically saids ask the BODY a few questions) and he considers it a bit rude (instead of something thats obviously evil as in forcibly ripping a soul from there alignments heaven and force it to answer your questions) i think its quite clear that during the dungeon of Dorukon that was simply the rule of funny acting

theres also the Goblin being completely non-cryptic (telling Xykon specifically where the keys were) and Durkon specifically saying the spell makes them answer cryptically

Durkon says the respondants Tend to be cryptic, not that the spell makes them be cryptic. Every so often, they can be crystal clear, when the right question is asked in the right way.

[Kaulguard]

I don't think the corpse was answering the question. I think when Roy asked about "Girard's Rift", it basically told him "Kiss my ass". All this, 'maybe the rift is in the statues butt' has kinda missed that point. Again, it wasn't talking about the portal in reality that can be used to move the snarl, it chose to misinterpret Roy's question and assume that 'Girard's Rift' meant 'Girard's butthole'. To screw with them. As per the spell description. I mean, really? Who puts a statue's butt around a hole in reality? I don't care who you are, that's f***** up.

[Dracarot]

As much as I would love for the rift to actually be in the statues buttcheeks, they do say that the sapphire one was the smallest, so unless Giraud had a bottom-hole larger than a medium sized gemstone I think it'll be somewhere else

Well I've gotten the impression that Girard is a pretty big a-hole so it'd only be appropriate for it to fit.


So... Durkon only has enough diamond dust for one Resurrection, huh?

That sounds extremely ominous...

Indeed, I think we'll know who will be left to die, but the question is who else will also die and require ressurection, the only one we can rule out for this particular possible scenario out is Durkon as he is the would be caster of said ressurection.

[irenicObserver]

So, simple buttock-related comedy, or a real clue that the rift is located in the statue's backside?

I thought this too.

[Chaelos]

I thought this too.

As did I. Otherwise, it's just an... assinine (sic) throwaway joke.

[Forikroder]

Durkon says the respondants Tend to be cryptic, not that the spell makes them be cryptic. Every so often, they can be crystal clear, when the right question is asked in the right way.

he siad they tend to be a bit cryptic, but from what weve seen there always completely cryptic so id assume its just him talking in the wierd way people do where they use words like "might" and "a little" when its actually "certainly" and "alot"

like people who say, "well she might be a little angry" when the person in question is upstairs breaking things

[jere7my]

As did I. Otherwise, it's just an... assinine (sic) throwaway joke.

That is what it is, yes.

[cloudland]

I still find it strange that Durkon prepared that spell, considering all the other options:
-Bestow Curse: he used it before on the huge demon, and he probably don't expect to get in battle that day. Today he know he might have to fight Team Evil, so why not this one?
-Dispel Magic: might be good since he know he might face illusion today.
-Invisibility Purge: obviously invisibility should be expected.
-Remove Curse: they might need to fight Xykon, who have paralyzing touch.
-Stone Shape: Durkon prepared before even on a day he expect fight (to rescue Elan/Haley/Vaarsuvius), and this is a Wind CANYON in a desert, so stone are everywhere.
-Create Food and Water: unless Haley is carry all the food in her bag for days of travelling (doubt it considering it's filled with gold and combat item), it's hard to imagine they are still healthy without food, and Durkon definitely didn't expect any hospitality from the Draketooth clan.

So basically, there is enough spell Durkon would be more likely to prepared considering the information he have back then. Even if he got to use 6 spells of level 3 per day (he probably got Earth domain for Stone Shape) it's hard to see how he have Speak with Death (which he would not expect to use, because if it's a teammate the fall might as well use Resurrect) over so many spells that are of higher priority that are enough to fill all the slots.



About speak with the dead having nothing to do with spirits..
Was Rich wrong before?
9th panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0095.html)
Last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0015.html)

It probably because it's just for fun, considering the storyline is not so clear back then. As for an in-universe explanation:
-Think of the soulless body like an auto-answering machine. The goblin might have deliberately record it to automatically said it if speak with dead is casted.
-Eugene is too proud of arcane magic to ever care what divine magic can do. Just like Elan who is blissfully ignorance and infer spell from its name (Disguise Self), Eugene just make a guess from the name and thought it can contact the spirit.

[Forikroder]

I still find it strange that Durkon prepared that spell, considering all the other options:
-Bestow Curse: he used it before on the huge demon, and he probably don't expect to get in battle that day. Today he know he might have to fight Team Evil, so why not this one?
-Dispel Magic: might be good since he know he might face illusion today.
-Invisibility Purge: obviously invisibility should be expected.
-Remove Curse: they might need to fight Xykon, who have paralyzing touch.
-Stone Shape: Durkon prepared before even on a day he expect fight (to rescue Elan/Haley/Vaarsuvius), and this is a Wind CANYON in a desert, so stone are everywhere.
-Create Food and Water: unless Haley is carry all the food in her bag for days of travelling (doubt it considering it's filled with gold and combat item), it's hard to imagine they are still healthy without food, and Durkon definitely didn't expect any hospitality from the Draketooth clan.

theres also V and Elan to consider, stone shape i dont see how that spell at all could be useful at there level
create food and water there are far more effecient spells availabe to them and since Vs lower level spell slots are alot more useless then Durkons hed have more utility spells as well

[ti'esar]

It probably because it's just for fun, considering the storyline is not so clear back then. As for an in-universe explanation:
-Think of the soulless body like an auto-answering machine. The goblin might have deliberately record it to automatically said it if speak with dead is casted.
-Eugene is too proud of arcane magic to ever care what divine magic can do. Just like Elan who is blissfully ignorance and infer spell from its name (Disguise Self), Eugene just make a guess from the name and thought it can contact the spirit.

For the record, I don't think it's so much rules ignorance or the story not being fully laid out as it is Rule of Funny. The joke of that strip is Xykon's laziness, and how he uses his powerful resources for such trivial purposes as finding his keys. Wrenching someone's soul back from the beyond is significantly more over-the-top, and as a result funnier, then "merely" reanimating his brain tissue for memories (or whatever).

[Mr. Pants]

Reanimating brain tissue? Is Durkon trying to create a superbrain?

[Mr. Pants]

Some help communing with the dead turned out to be...:smallmad:

[Math_Mage]

I still find it strange that Durkon prepared that spell, considering all the other options:
-Bestow Curse: he used it before on the huge demon, and he probably don't expect to get in battle that day. Today he know he might have to fight Team Evil, so why not this one?
-Dispel Magic: might be good since he know he might face illusion today.
-Invisibility Purge: obviously invisibility should be expected.
-Remove Curse: they might need to fight Xykon, who have paralyzing touch.
-Stone Shape: Durkon prepared before even on a day he expect fight (to rescue Elan/Haley/Vaarsuvius), and this is a Wind CANYON in a desert, so stone are everywhere.
-Create Food and Water: unless Haley is carry all the food in her bag for days of travelling (doubt it considering it's filled with gold and combat item), it's hard to imagine they are still healthy without food, and Durkon definitely didn't expect any hospitality from the Draketooth clan.

So basically, there is enough spell Durkon would be more likely to prepared considering the information he have back then. Even if he got to use 6 spells of level 3 per day (he probably got Earth domain for Stone Shape) it's hard to see how he have Speak with Death (which he would not expect to use, because if it's a teammate the fall might as well use Resurrect) over so many spells that are of higher priority that are enough to fill all the slots.

Durkon may have left one or more spell slots open. CFW in particular is unlikely to be needed, as the party has plenty of ways to carry provisions. And V likely has plenty of dispels prepped.

And no, Durkon does not have the Earth domain.

[Fishman]

I don't really think CFW would be an extremely high priority spell for this mission: Keep in mind that a being will normally last 3 days or so without any water at all, and even longer without food: You won't die merely because you didn't prepare that particular spell today. With that in mind, Speak With Dead is an entirely sensible thing to include in your loadout, given that you are investigating a location where Team Evil may have beaten you to it. Team Evil tends to leave dead people everywhere...you might want to ask some of these dead people questions. A lower level spell like Dispel Magic might not even have received much priority, given that Durkon can load higher-level versions of it which would be more likely to succeed. In short, Speak with Dead is an entirely worthy inclusion into this particular loadout, although I doubt he'd load more than one or two shots of it.

[M84]

If Girard taught his clan to be rude and abrasive (even in death) towards anyone wih a Lawful Good alignment (like a certain former friend paladin), couldn't they get Elan or Haley to ask the corpse instead? Or is their time limit already up?

Edit:

It's a little surprising that Girard didn't seem to have created any contingency plans in case the entire Draketooth clan was killed. Dorukan at least had an anti-Evil power glyph and Soon had a bunch of ghost paladins.

[Math_Mage]

If Girard taught his clan to be rude and abrasive (even in death) towards anyone wih a Lawful Good alignment (like a certain former friend paladin), couldn't they get Elan or Haley to ask the corpse instead? Or is their time limit already up?

Edit:

It's a little surprising that Girard didn't seem to have created any contingency plans in case the entire Draketooth clan was killed. Dorukan at least had an anti-Evil power glyph and Soon had a bunch of ghost paladins.

More likely they were simply taught never to reveal information about the Gate even through a Speak With Dead.

Also, we don't know if Girard has put up a contingency plan.

[cloudland]

But team evil zombify corpse, and Nale is definitely not there. And they have Resurrect and diamond, and being Lawful Good, I'm sure Durkon would have picked Resurrect over Speak with Dead anyday. So that means, Durkon have to somehow think that they might find some dead corpse that cannot be Resurrected when he prepared it, because if that's not the case, he would prepared something more useful in combat for example.
Stone Shape is probably good to deal with a winding passage, which he might have expected.


If Girard taught his clan to be rude and abrasive (even in death) towards anyone wih a Lawful Good alignment (like a certain former friend paladin), couldn't they get Elan or Haley to ask the corpse instead? Or is their time limit already up?

Edit:

It's a little surprising that Girard didn't seem to have created any contingency plans in case the entire Draketooth clan was killed. Dorukan at least had an anti-Evil power glyph and Soon had a bunch of ghost paladins.

I doubt anyone can train to have their corpse distinguish alignment when they are already dead. If anything, they could be trained to be useless and give out answer in the wrong way, but alignment distinction is probably too hard.
And we did see his contingency plan I think, remembered where V ended up?

[Burner28]

Now that is amusing!:smallbiggrin:

[BaronOfHell]

After giving it some thoughts, couldn't it have been a common practice when setting up the gate, to check how members of the clan would react to SwtD?

After all, let's imagine a more common and predictable scenario, such as your clan is in a huge battle and you've had casualties. Considering that the secrets you need for your advantage, an advantage which only exists as long as the opposition does not know about these secrets and that the secret is something everyone in the clan would know, there'd be a huge risk if the opposition applied SwtD on any casualties. However, if you create your base in a sufficient manner and apply names of things in certain ways and maybe other stuff as well, it might very well be so that any information SwtD can provide will always be ambiguous. Maybe even non-unique to an extend that it'll be more helpful for your team if the opposition try to apply the information from SwtD.

As such, since SwtD is a common spell and casualties is predictable, I guess it's not much of a stretch to imagine Girard having set up his protection of the gate in such a way, that SwtD will be useless. This would probably have required for some resurrection scrolls and if it was common practice to check what information SwtD would give from any new clan member, maybe they'll be able to find some resurrection scrolls lying around.

On the other hand, maybe Girards family had clerics, but these were merely clerics of the cause of protecting the gate.

[LadyEowyn]

Add me to the side of "it doesn't signify anything about the gate". The answer would be technically true if it didn't have anything to do with the Rift's location, so why give a snarky answer with a germ of useful information in it rather than a snarky answer without any useful information?

Also, in the OotS-verse, Speak With Dead does seem to call up the spirit, not just communicate with the corpse, given the words of the Goblin that Xykon had Redcloak Speak with to tell him where his keys were. Of course, that was early on before the comic had really hit its stride, so Rich may have decided to change the mechanics since then, but our default assumption should be that the spell's consistent with what we've seen before in OotS rather than with the D&D-verse.

[Boogastreehouse]

{{Scrubbed}}

[Boogastreehouse]

Why would Durkon prepare that exact spell if he didn't know he'd need it?

Speak with dead is a great spell, that's why.


So... Durkon only has enough diamond dust for one Resurrection, huh?

That sounds extremely ominous...

I was thinking that, too.

[willpell]

I think it's unlikely that the rift is in a statue's butt, simply because it'd be hard to draw it accurately and informatively without giving people goatse flashbacks. You could do something like people standing behind the statue with a purple-blue glow shining on their midsection, but it'd be pretty lame. I think it's more likely that the corpse was just giving a programmed response that Girard drilled them to give. After all Shojo employed plenty of clerics, and they certainly didn't hesitate to cast a "rude" spell in pursuit of their goals. Having a defense against postmortem interrogation tactics, whereby a false and offensive "fact" is taught as truth so much that the undead brain repeats it, seems very consistent with Girard's belief in the power of deception.

Also, I repeat my previous question:


For those of us who possess only a passing familiarity with the original Bard, could someone quote the original the reference that the current Bard is riffing on in the last panel? I'm sure I've heard the meter before but I don't recall the exact wording of the real poem.

In other words, where does the quote Elan is paraphrasing come from?

[LordRahl6]

Ah! This harkens back to DCF's with Xykon's keys!:smallbiggrin:

Also the Draketooths seem to put Roy off for questioning to deeply into the location of the Gate.:smallamused: That is unless the Gate is REALLY is between Girard's buttocks.:smalleek: But wasn't the Soon Gate the smallest before it was unsealed?:smallconfused:

[wiimanclassic]

*Doesn't read thread* I'm betting its some giant buttcheek shaped rock formation.