The Minds of Almantha

[Landis963]

Almantha is the last bastion of magic in the dying world of Therinos.

Geography

Unusually round for a continent of its size, it is home to four large kingdom-esque nations and the city state of Revien, at its center. To the north there is a mountain range, but concealed within those craggy peaks is a peaceful meadow, home to the entrance to Saalarann. This mountain range extends in a southeasterly direction, ending in a peninsula. The range abruptly stops at the edge of the peninsula, in a large mountain which houses the city of Obsidia. A large forest dominates the southern region of Almantha, and marks the territory of Dekonio. A large lagoon similarly dominates the western reaches, although the territory of Aquacor reaches nearly to the gates of Revien.

Major Cities

Aquacor:
City of water. The entire city is made of it, held in place by high-power Control Water spells. The city is also made of ice and glass, as the high saturation of magic allows the city to change water to ice to glass and back. It is renowned for its heavy emphasis on the tourist trade, as well as for its university of magical theory and the many powerful casters that count among its alumni. It boasts a sizable population of humans and aventi, sleek, humanoid creatures with fins, naturally colored black and white.


Dekonio
City of earth. A city in a giant tree. This tree can move its existing branches on its own whims (usually during the night or in districts without anyone around to fall down), with enough control to weave its smaller branches into rope bridges. The gems collect sunlight during the day and transfer it to literal sunflowers, providing light to the city’s inhabitants. 90% of Dekonio's population is elven, but these elves are different from the pointy-eared humans one would find elsewhere on Therinos. Their close affinity for and physical proximity to a nexus of earth magic turned them into a plant race, of physically green skin, barklike clothing, and the ability to grow a hard shell for protection while sleeping. The remaining 10% are humans and any being without the desire or aptitude for the hard theory taught at the University of Aquacor, studying sigils and more practical uses of magic.

Obsidia
City of fire. One of the most normal of the cities in the nation, despite its location (inside a dormant volcano) and the mechanical constructs of various shapes that abound. Central tower is topped with a perfectly spherical ruby that seems to glitter as though being whirled at great speeds. Constructs are built for their functions, and have trouble “thinking” out of them. Most of them have a human face on what passes for a head, so that their organic overlords can have something to address. Human face is immobile, eyes are whited over. Entire face looks carved out of marble. Most are created by the nomon, a population of dwarf/goblin/gnome hybrids given to the city as part of an alliance with Dekonio, intended as Igors and servants for the city, but many of whom grew into brilliant scientists, engineers, and spellcasters in their own right.

Saalarann
City of air. When one goes to Saalarann for the first time, they might be confused by the sight of a small domed pagoda in the middle of a rolling plain. This pagoda is but the door to Saalarann, in much the same way that the plain is merely an antechamber. The actual city is above the cloud layer, three concentric rings of buildings floating several hundred miles above the surface of Therinos. It is the nest of the kiria, a race of raptorans, and second only to Aquacor in the human tourist trade.

Revien
City of balance. Home to Fissura, a religion deifying the powers behind each city, and its capital place of worship, the Noreun. also home to the Revien Freelancer Guard, a mercenary army that is contractually obligated never to march on the city where it was founded. Every full moon, there is also a black market hidden somewhere in the city, and it is considered a rite of passage for Freelancer grunts to sneak off and find it after their recruitment. As for the commanding officers, they turn a blind eye, some even going so far as to say "I do not recommend looking for the Moon Market, nor do I recommend looking in THIS area for it." Revien is unique among cities in that it is located in a canyon, with buildings crawling up the sides like bracket fungus. "Ravine" jokes are naturally frowned upon as being very, very lame puns.

Fissura

The Minds are the power behind the four elemental cities, referred to separately as Aqua, Dekon, Saala, and Obsid. They are the memories and characters of the founders of each city, transformed by an ancient and powerful spell into AI-esque beings.

With power akin to gods and their desire to protect their strongholds from any attack, it is small wonder that the population worships the Minds as gods. When the Minds want something, they ask for it, and it will be given to them - or they will take it themselves.

Magic

Almantha is drenched in magic, a continent of rainforest when all around is desert. As such, many races have magic built within their very beings, and all can cast spells without physical components (as SLAs). However, spellcasting is tied to the four elements, in that there must be water (or at least liquid) nearby in order to cast water-aligned spells.

The Minds have access to epic-level amounts of power, and have used it in long-lasting enchantments that keep themselves and their peoples safe. However, the enchantments have been slowly failing, as of late, due to a combination of age, neglect, and the machinations of an ancient enemy of the founders, a pioneer in the field of necromancy who has turned himself into a lich in order to continue to hound his enemies.

Schools of Magic
Of the schools of magic, 3 of them are known to exist under all four elements. These three are: Conjuration, Restoration, and Destruction. The effects of the spells under these schools vary with the element: for example, a conjurer of air can teleport himself or his party, while a conjurer of fire can cast illusions to distract an enemy, while a conjurer of water can confuse or dominate. Restoration spells are fairly constant across all elements (mostly healing, far too useful to restrict to fewer than all the elements), while destruction spells take circumstance bonuses in the presence of that element.

Hybrid spells
However, there are some spell schools which do not fall under the four elements - Necromancy spells, for example, require both the services of an earth caster (to animate the body) and a fire mage (to call back a soul to act as a control measure, in the way a brain controls a body). The relevant subsets are listed below:

Necromancy - Earth and Fire
Golemcrafting - Earth and Water
Transmutation - Earth and Air
Scrying - Air and Water
Planar Shifting - Air and Fire
Planar Summoning - Fire and Water


Sigils

A recent development is the creation of sigils. These are runes that have been imbued with a single spell (the type of spell depends on the rune) and the power to cast it once, with different triggers written into the binding circle.

[Landis963]

Races

Humans
Ah, vanilla. They have a tendency to adopt whatever element of spells is practiced by the nearest elemental city, although "multicasters" appear closer to Revien.

Aventi
From the Stormwrack sourcebook. However, close proximity to the nexus of water magic that is Aquacor have given them gills and winglike webs connecting their arms and torsos. The leaders of Aventi clans all wear brightly colored ponchos, giving them the appearance of gaudily colored manta rays. They have a natural color of orca-whale black with patches of white.

Kiria
Based of the Raptorans From Races of the Wild. Close proximity to the nexus of air magic that is Saalarann have removed any connection between their arms and their wings, making footbows obsolete. Also, they draw any winds in the area under their wings as a subconscious SLA, allowing them to fly even in the stillest of aerial doldrums, and, with practice, gain enough control to escape the quickest cyclone.

Elves
Elves perhaps have changed the most from the pointy-eared humans familiar to most of Therinos. Once no different from Tolkien standard elves, Almanthan elves have become plant beings due to their close proximity to the earth magic nexus of Dekonio, closer in appearance to dryads than any other living creature. As a result of this, they no longer need anything other than sunlight and physical nightly contact with soil, although many will indulge their sense of taste for the sensation and for politeness' sake. In a pinch, food can also provide the nutrients if suitable ground is not available.

Nomon
Nomon (standard Gnomes) are perhaps an anomaly in the lineup of Almanthan races, in that they were created artificially by Dekon, as a pseudo-housewarming present to Obsid after Obsidia was founded. The tallest nomon is no larger than an 8-year old human, although those who underestimate their small size are in for a world of hurt.

Goblinoid races
There are currently three species of goblinoids wandering Almantha, castoffs of the experiments that created the nomon. The first of these, the orcs, are a species of strength, roving in groups called wanderhordes. The second was the goblins, a species of magic. Their armor is prized for being flexible, durable, and (most important of all) semi-impermeable to magic. The last of the races is the kobolds, a species of speed and agility. Their small size makes them similar to the nomon, who in fact inherited their speed and the goblins' magic. Neither the orcs nor the kobolds, due to a mistake in the ritual that would have given them magic, can use it - nor can magic itself affect an orc or a kobold. In this way, mind-altering spells have an extremely high DC, and scrying spells autofail unless they can latch onto something in the scryed area. Even if the spell takes, any orcs or kobolds in the view of the sensor will fail to appear, as though they were under the effects of Invisibility. However, they will appear as normal to unmagically aided sight. Furthermore, as magic is, in most cases, a manipulation of an element, ice spells will still freeze, fire still burns, etc.

[motoko's ghost]

I'm getting the strangest feeling of deja vu, seriously though nice to see this world still going

[Landis963]

I'm getting the strangest feeling of deja vu, seriously though nice to see this world still going

Yeah, although this is probably closer to thread necro than "still going".

EDIT: Any ideas for what should go in the remaining hybrids?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

As a whole I really like this setting. It's simple to understand at a glance, but there's obviously some bit of mystery built in with regards to the Minds. A few things:



Elves
Elves perhaps have changed the most from the pointy-eared humans familiar to most of Therinos. Once no different from Tolkien standard elves, Almanthan elves have become plant beings due to their close proximity to the earth magic nexus of Dekonio, closer in appearance to dryads than any other living creature. As a result of this, they no longer need anything other than sunlight and physical nightly contact with soil, although many will indulge their sense of taste for the sensation and for politeness' sake. In a pinch, food can also provide the nutrients if suitable ground is not available.

I rather like these elves. They remind me a lot of elves I did once, where they would changed their skin to reflect the type of ground they walked on. So they'd turn beige-yellow on sand dunes, red while walking on red clay, and dark if they were on fertile soil or a swamp. Very different from the usual crop of pointy eared immortals.


Hybrid spells
However, there are some spell schools which do not fall under the four elements - Necromancy spells, for example, require both the services of an earth caster (to animate the body) and a fire mage (to call back a soul to act as a control measure, in the way a brain controls a body). The relevant subsets are listed below:

Necromancy - Earth and Fire
Earth and Water
Earth and Air
Scrying - Air and Water
Planar Shifting - Air and Fire
Planar Summoning - Fire and Water


Earth and Water create Abjuration? The water carries the spells, the earth cements them in reality. And Enchantment is represented through Earth and Air. Again, the Air is the suggestion, the Earth is a compulsion to act as you say. Maybe this helps, I'm not sure.

[Landis963]

I rather like these elves. They remind me a lot of elves I did once, where they would changed their skin to reflect the type of ground they walked on. So they'd turn beige-yellow on sand dunes, red while walking on red clay, and dark if they were on fertile soil or a swamp. Very different from the usual crop of pointy eared immortals.

Thanks, I was trying to think "how could I shy away from the Tolkien standard?" and that was the result. Glad you like it.


Earth and Water create Abjuration? The water carries the spells, the earth cements them in reality. And Enchantment is represented through Earth and Air. Again, the Air is the suggestion, the Earth is a compulsion to act as you say. Maybe this helps, I'm not sure.

Enchantment would probably fall under Water Conjuration, (water gets a lot of mind-affecting stuff), while Abjuration could work as Earth and Air, but I'm not sure. The thing is, I'd like to tie it to a) a physical example of the element or b) one secondary power. Air, for example, gets weather magic and teleportation, while water magic gets to manipulate liquids of any type (including brain fluid, hence the mind-affecting stuff) and gets cold and Ice spells as its secondary. Fire gets heat and flame, of course, but also silent-image type illusions (like controllable mirages or holograms). Earth, in this model, gets to shape solid matter (whether that be trees or stone shape doesn't matter), but also gets antimagic. Going back to Abjuration, it might work better as an entirely different school of magic (I'm debating adding it to the OP as one connected to all 4 elements, that is), because Wall of X would naturally be connected to X element, Protection from Arrows would be Air (think about it - an arrow fired into a cyclone wouldn't hit the target in the center), Dispel Magic Earth, Cloak of Chaos barely fits under Water, and Dismissal is a similarly tenuous leap for Fire.

[Omeganaut]

Earth and water could be golemcrafting. Earth to provide the material and water to provide the impetus to move. Earth and Air could be Transmutation, as together they can change the substance of the item. Or if you thought it could work, move necromancy to air and earth (air representing breath of life) and earth and fire could be transmutation.

I'm trying to figure out which system you are using to delineate schools of magic, because I can't figure it out, so I don't know that my suggestions will be very helpful. Also, have you decided how divine magic is going to work with this setting?

[Zap Dynamic]

Nice work so far! I'll say right away that I'm generally not a fan of high-magic settings, but I like this stuff. It's cool that you foster teamwork in spellcasting. The setting's got a kind of Airbender/Final Fantasy/Zelda feel to it. In particular, I love the take on elves. I've kicked around a very similar idea a few times.

Some thoughts:
There are Humans, and then air, earth, and water races. Any fire races? The Nomon seem like they might be, but it isn't explicit.

As far as format is concerned, I think you would benefit from some revisions. I figure this is a rough draft, but it's worth a mention anyway. My own preference is to lay out the geography, either the nations or the races (whichever is more unified), religion and magic, then anything else that's germane.

That's all I can think of for now.

[motoko's ghost]

Earth and Air for flight/levitation spells? Earth to weaken the bond to the ground and air to shift them about?

[Landis963]

Forum, don't fail me now.


Earth and water could be golemcrafting. Earth to provide the material and water to provide the impetus to move. Earth and Air could be Transmutation, as together they can change the substance of the item. Or if you thought it could work, move necromancy to air and earth (air representing breath of life) and earth and fire could be transmutation.

Earth and Water seems like an excellent way to make Golems, as does Earth and Air for Transmutation. I'll add that later. I actually considered the "breath of life" as an argument for air in Necromancy, but it's got weather magic (which, BTW, includes Chain Lightning) and teleportation, which made me think it's getting overpowered. Fire as part of Necromancy was inspired by a friend, who noted that in a book he'd read, the souls of the dead were always described as fire-related things. (I don't remember the name of the book he cited)


I'm trying to figure out which system you are using to delineate schools of magic, because I can't figure it out, so I don't know that my suggestions will be very helpful. Also, have you decided how divine magic is going to work with this setting?

It's my own invention, which takes cues from Airbender, among others. Basic rule of thumb is: if a spell can be done with a circumstantial example of the element, it is aligned with that element. However, each also gets a secondary power (water mages can cast mind-affecting spells that control the blood or the brain fluid of a target, air mages can swap themselves with the air at a target position, with the effect of teleportation, fire can cause shifts in atmospheric heat to cause illusions, earth can drain magical energy from a target, with the effect of antimagic). Also, divine magic as such does not exist as a category, since the Minds are not divine entities that can grant spells to a practitioner.


Nice work so far! I'll say right away that I'm generally not a fan of high-magic settings, but I like this stuff. It's cool that you foster teamwork in spellcasting. The setting's got a kind of Airbender/Final Fantasy/Zelda feel to it. In particular, I love the take on elves. I've kicked around a very similar idea a few times.

Some thoughts:
There are Humans, and then air, earth, and water races. Any fire races? The Nomon seem like they might be, but it isn't explicit.

The nomon are basically the modern fire race, but while the world was young, before the Minds ascended to their current positions, Dragons controlled the entire western coast. It is rumored that the last of the dragons bequeathed the volcanic caverns that now house Obsidia to its founder.


As far as format is concerned, I think you would benefit from some revisions. I figure this is a rough draft, but it's worth a mention anyway. My own preference is to lay out the geography, either the nations or the races (whichever is more unified), religion and magic, then anything else that's germane.

That's all I can think of for now.

I'm trying to thrash geography out too, but I keep running into problems. I'd like to have them laid out in a LoZ-Termina-esque pattern, with one city-state to the north, another to the west, and so on, with Revien in the middle a la Clock Town. However, Aquacor requires a lagoon (or any body of water large enough to hold a city), Dekonio a forest, Saalarann needs a plain sufficiently large enough that the teleport pad at its center is remarkable enough to draw attention, and I'd like to have Obsidia on a volcanic island. However, the most convenient place to put a volcanic island is at the mouth of Aquacor's lagoon, and placing two similar islands at opposite ends of the same continent seems problematic. I'm currently thinking that we have a peninsula to the west, which is blocked from the mainland by a dormant volcano, which of course houses Obsidia, while Aquacor has only just begun to sprawl outside of the lagoon it was built in. I agree that the formatting needs fixing, I was just trying to get down everything from the previous thread (that died, BTW) and didn't think much to format. I'll get around to fixing it eventually.


Earth and Air for flight/levitation spells? Earth to weaken the bond to the ground and air to shift them about?

Earth would, if anything, strengthen the bond to the ground, making levitation impractical to (literally) tie to earth. Levitation is an air-only ability, as evidenced by the kirian ability to literally generate wind beneath their wings.

EDIT: DING!

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I'm trying to thrash geography out too, but I keep running into problems. I'd like to have them laid out in a LoZ-Termina-esque pattern, with one city-state to the north, another to the west, and so on, with Revien in the middle a la Clock Town. However, Aquacor requires a lagoon (or any body of water large enough to hold a city), Dekonio a forest, Saalarann needs a plain sufficiently large enough that the teleport pad at its center is remarkable enough to draw attention, and I'd like to have Obsidia on a volcanic island. However, the most convenient place to put a volcanic island is at the mouth of Aquacor's lagoon, and placing two similar islands at opposite ends of the same continent seems problematic. I'm currently thinking that we have a peninsula to the west, which is blocked from the mainland by a dormant volcano, which of course houses Obsidia, while Aquacor has only just begun to sprawl outside of the lagoon it was built in. I agree that the formatting needs fixing, I was just trying to get down everything from the previous thread (that died, BTW) and didn't think much to format. I'll get around to fixing it eventually.

Hmmm. This has got me thinking. What if we keep your idea of the cities being set in a compass-style setting, but then just justify whatever geography exists because of the Minds. The Minds are incredibly, godly powerful things. Who's to say that they don't shape the world around them to suit their element? Volcanoes don't appear because they're near a tectonic plate boundary. They appear because that's where the Fire Mind exists. Despite being up an incline, there's a vast lagoon around Aquacor. So, basically, ignore proper geography. It's a high-magic world where magic = God-Cities.

[Landis963]

Hmmm. This has got me thinking. What if we keep your idea of the cities being set in a compass-style setting, but then just justify whatever geography exists because of the Minds. The Minds are incredibly, godly powerful things. Who's to say that they don't shape the world around them to suit their element? Volcanoes don't appear because they're near a tectonic plate boundary. They appear because that's where the Fire Mind exists. Despite being up an incline, there's a vast lagoon around Aquacor. So, basically, ignore proper geography. It's a high-magic world where magic = God-Cities.

I like the idea, especially with the implication that the Minds themselves started warping the area, but as I said earlier, the last of the dragons bequeathed the caverns to the founder of Obsidia. Obsid could very easily have burned some extra caverns after he was installed, and has in fact done so multiple times over the course of Almantha's history. Also, Saala wouldn't much care about the plain which contains her teleport pad once she was installed in Saalarann, and the elven population which founded Dekonio would have gravitated to a small forest before settling down in the first place.

TL;DR: The Minds would have dabbled in terraforming, but there needs to be something there for them to start with. EDIT: With the exception of Aquacor. even before ascension, Aqua was an energetic young mage who would take to the challenge of creating a lake from nothing with gusto.

[Landis963]

New OP! Now with new Geography section (Thanks Ninja for the help) and additions to Magic and Races.

Up next: Organizations and Factions.

Long story short, I'd like to have at least 3 or 4 different major organizations for each city. I've got a few to start it off, which is where you come in.

Aquacor:

University of Aquacor
Aquacor Navy
Consortium of Schools - the aventi nations' ruling body: a council of every patriarch or patriarch's chosen representative.



Dekonio: This one can skimp on factions, due to Dekon's preference to limit the amount of conflicting factions within his domain.

Dekonio Practicum - A "technical school" of magic, and main lab for sigils.
Sharenia Library - a collection of treatises on every topic imaginable, from spell schools to celestial movements to basic aerodynamics.



Obsidia:

Ominak Laboratories - Producer of constructs and machines of every shape, size, and specification, rumored to take orders from Obsid himself.
Underground railroad for kobolds wishing to impersonate/replace a nomon, needs a name.
Kasaito - a sect of terrorists that destroy and deface monuments to Obsid, etching the name of "Fisura" over Obsid's.



Saalarann:

Falconrunners - Pseudo-Traceurs with wingsuits, who pride themselves on taking the quickest path to their destinations, be it by cable, over street, or through the air. Mainly a human discipline, although the younger generation of kiria are starting to see its merits.
an order of monks who have discovered how to scry solely using winds. Needs a more arabian-esque name.




Revien

Revien Freelancer Guard - a mercenary corps of all shapes, sizes, and magical aptitudes. The superiors have a tendency to group their recruits into six-man teams (i.e. D&D teams - the game I eventually intend to run will start with the players signing up).
Moon Market - A black market bazaar that springs up every full moon, complete with trail of reflected moonlight. More exotic items are sold here, including the best suits of magic-conducive armor, sold by the Goblins who enchanted them.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

New OP! Now with new Geography section (Thanks Ninja for the help) and additions to Magic and Races.

Up next: Organizations and Factions.

Long story short, I'd like to have at least 3 or 4 different major organizations for each city. I've got a few to start it off, which is where you come in.

I'll be able to help out with this tomorrow, after finals. For now, I got another photoshop craving. So I did a drawing of the Air Mind that runs Saalarann (forgive me forgetting its real name, gotta post before the database backup). Inspired by those floating heads from the Atlantis movie. Can't seem to fix the size.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/sithlord7/airmindofsaal.gif

[motoko's ghost]

Something with golemcrafters who believe that the constructs are the pinnacle of form and basically attempting fantasy transhumanism with golem bodies&etc, however due to the questionable nature of their experiments they usually keep a low profile.

EDIT: whoops that may not be what you are looking for...um...maybe a large library of both magical and mundane knowledge?

[Landis963]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s231/sithlord7/airmindofsaal.gif

I like it, but it would be a better fit for Aqua, rather than Saala. Saala would prefer a cyclone-esque figurehead.


Something with golemcrafters who believe that the constructs are the pinnacle of form and basically attempting fantasy transhumanism with golem bodies&etc, however due to the questionable nature of their experiments they usually keep a low profile.

EDIT: whoops that may not be what you are looking for...um...maybe a large library of both magical and mundane knowledge?

The golemcrafter cabal might work, but it wouldn't work anywhere but Obsidia. Also, there's a difference between the Water&Earth golems, and the constructs created at Ominak, which are closer to robots than anything else.

A large library would work nicely for Dekonio: It would serve Dekon nicely to have all manner of knowledge at his fingertips. What would you like to call it?

[Yora]

All hail to the Hypno-Stone!

*clap*

[Landis963]

All hail to the Hypno-Stone!

*clap*

:smallamused: I did not think of that at all. Yet another reason why it fits with Aqua.

Also, if I may quibble: it should be "All glory to the Hypno-Stone."

[motoko's ghost]

The golemcrafter cabal might work, but it wouldn't work anywhere but Obsidia. Also, there's a difference between the Water&Earth golems, and the constructs created at Ominak, which are closer to robots than anything else.

A large library would work nicely for Dekonio: It would serve Dekon nicely to have all manner of knowledge at his fingertips. What would you like to call it?

Okay.

Um...The Library(emphasis on the The)? Tuama Focail? Sharu Aigne? Ustun Nezere?
(word's tomb in Irish, transcendent mind in Irish and transcendent mind in Azerbaijani respectively, probably a bad translation)

[Landis963]

Okay.

Um...The Library(emphasis on the The)? Tuama Focail? Sharu Aigne? Ustun Nezere?
(word's tomb in Irish, transcendent mind in Irish and transcendent mind in Azerbaijani respectively, probably a bad translation)

Sharenia might work (as a corruption of Sharu Aigne there). Ustun Nezere sounds more like Draconic to my ear (although I'm wondering whether "Ustun" or "Nezere" is "mind", as either would work wonderfully for the plaza in front of the central tower of Obsidia), and I dare you to find a group of american players who wouldn't laugh when they heard the word "Focail".

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Long story short, I'd like to have at least 3 or 4 different major organizations for each city. I've got a few to start it off, which is where you come in.

Since Saalarann has these Flying Squirrel people leaping around, you could have a faction that's more traditional. The Tuuli-lukoi are a set of monks who try to become air and merge with the Mind, sort of like enlightenment or ascension. They're the kind of group who stand in one place and let the wind carry messages to them, rather than squirrel about like those Falconrunners.

[Landis963]

Since Saalarann has these Flying Squirrel people leaping around, you could have a faction that's more traditional. The Tuuli-lukoi are a set of monks who try to become air and merge with the Mind, sort of like enlightenment or ascension. They're the kind of group who stand in one place and let the wind carry messages to them, rather than squirrel about like those Falconrunners.

Hm, Interesting. I bet Saala, for one, would be very interested to learn that this group has somehow divorced scrying from the water element. However, I don't think "becoming air" is possible - although I'm perfectly fine with them being in the dark about that snag in their plans. However, "Tuuli-Lukoi" doesn't fit with "Saalarann", which to my mind has a more Arabian flavor.

EDIT: This order and the library that motoko came up with earlier have been added.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Hm, Interesting. I bet Saala, for one, would be very interested to learn that this group has somehow divorced scrying from the water element. However, I don't think "becoming air" is possible - although I'm perfectly fine with them being in the dark about that snag in their plans. However, "Tuuli-Lukoi" doesn't fit with "Saalarann", which to my mind has a more Arabian flavor.

Total brainfart. I completely forgot about the water=scry stuff. Instead, how about a group that created and maintains a massive communications network. There's a massive series of Towers strung out across the world, each just outside of visual range of each other, and message-carriers teleport from one tower to the next and hand off the message to the waiting members of the order there, who then have someone with fresh spell slots continue on to the next. It's like a magical pony express. In that it's magic and acts like the Pony Express, not that it's a message system using magic ponies.

As for the name. Google Translate doesn't translate Arabic into a Latin Alphabet :smalltongue:. So I went with Finnish and simply combined the words for "Wind" and "Reader". If you know what that is in Arabic you could still use the same name.

[Landis963]

Sorry about the delay, I completely forgot that the server ate my post. :smallsigh:


Total brainfart. I completely forgot about the water=scry stuff. Instead, how about a group that created and maintains a massive communications network. There's a massive series of Towers strung out across the world, each just outside of visual range of each other, and message-carriers teleport from one tower to the next and hand off the message to the waiting members of the order there, who then have someone with fresh spell slots continue on to the next. It's like a magical pony express. In that it's magic and acts like the Pony Express, not that it's a message system using magic ponies.

I like the idea. However, the post office shouldn't extend far beyond Saalarann's domain. It would be impractical for them to have an office in Aquacor (Aqua changes the skyline like a socialite changes clothes), and Dekon and Obsid have their own ways to get information from place to place.


As for the name. Google Translate doesn't translate Arabic into a Latin Alphabet :smalltongue:. So I went with Finnish and simply combined the words for "Wind" and "Reader". If you know what that is in Arabic you could still use the same name.

Wind is loosely translated as "habb", reader as "alqar'e". On another note, I was thinking of what the name for the Teleport express could be, and I thought, "why not "wind-riders"?" Thus, the word for "rider" in arabic is "alerakeb."

[Landis963]

Behold, the thread lives again! Understandably, I've been busy with school and stuff. Mostly, though, I've been waiting for the input of others. Perhaps everyone else's busy too.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Behold, the thread lives again! Understandably, I've been busy with school and stuff. Mostly, though, I've been waiting for the input of others. Perhaps everyone else's busy too.

Less busy, more...looking for direction. I'm just not sure what to add to the conversation.

Um...is there some sort of official membership to Mindworship? Like an organized body or a temple in Revien?

[Landis963]

Less busy, more...looking for direction. I'm just not sure what to add to the conversation.

Um...is there some sort of official membership to Mindworship? Like an organized body or a temple in Revien?

First, I've been looking for an alternate name for that since before Zap mentioned the Rectorum in his American Mythology project.

Second, there is in fact a grand cathedral in Revien, known to all as the Noreun. Smaller towns in all four kingdoms have similar churches, but the only temples in the elemental cities are those dedicated to the Mind of the city. It is rumored that there is a secret passage between the Noreun and the major temple of each elemental city, but the existence of such a connection has never been proven. The Noreun itself has a central figure not unlike the pope, (who needs a name for his title as well), with priests dispatched to smaller churches as needed. The pope-analogue also acts as Revien's president, with a Senate of delegates from each district of Revien acting as advisers and checking his secular power.

Third, did no one notice the secret message in that post? Or, if you found it, consider it worth a mention?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

First, I've been looking for an alternate name for that since before Zap mentioned the Rectorum in his American Mythology project.

How about Rift. It's built into a canyon, right?


Second, there is in fact a grand cathedral in Revien, known to all as the Noreun...

The Pope analogue could be given the title of Espanys, going with the pattern you seem to be following.


Third, did no one notice the secret message in that post? Or, if you found it, consider it worth a mention?

I saw it. Did you see mine? :smallamused:

[Landis963]

How about Rift. It's built into a canyon, right?

I don't know... "Rift" seems kind of random for a religion of the Minds, especially since you've noticed the pattern I use elsewhere. On that note:


The Pope analogue could be given the title of Espanys, going with the pattern you seem to be following.

:smallbiggrin: I like it. Actually, I'm wondering why I didn't come up with that first.


I saw it. Did you see mine? :smallamused:

I didn't, actually. It's almost certainly more clever than my acrostic, because I'm still looking, and I can't find it.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I don't know... "Rift" seems kind of random for a religion of the Minds, especially since you've noticed the pattern I use elsewhere.

Then perhaps Fissura or its reverse, Arussif, as in fissura longitudinalis cerebri, the divide between brain hemispheres.


I didn't, actually. It's almost certainly more clever than my acrostic, because I'm still looking, and I can't find it.

Point Espanys towards a mirror. That thumping sound you're hearing is the bricks. :smalltongue:
Synapse!

[Landis963]

Then perhaps Fissura or its reverse, Arussif, as in fissura longitudinalis cerebri, the divide between brain hemispheres.

Fissura sounds much better. It sounds like something Obsidia's founder would come up with, especially once Dekon put forward the idea of propping the Minds they would become up as gods. On that note, would writing a post of the legendary and secret histories of Almantha help in terms of direction? Because I've got that mostly figured out already, and all it needs is some way to find and thrash out any plotholes.


Point Espanys towards a mirror. That thumping sound you're hearing is the bricks. :smalltongue:
Synapse!

:smallwink: Oh, I got that. That's why I like that name so much. I thought there was another message hidden in the rest of the post, like "LOL" buried somewhere in the text, or encoded into the number of letters of each word of one of your sentences or something.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Fissura sounds much better. It sounds like something Obsidia's founder would come up with, especially once Dekon put forward the idea of propping the Minds they would become up as gods. On that note, would writing a post of the legendary and secret histories of Almantha help in terms of direction? Because I've got that mostly figured out already, and all it needs is some way to find and thrash out any plotholes.

I think so. While the general ideas of Almantha themselves are cool and idea-creating, some extra in-universe flavor never hurt.


:smallwink: Oh, I got that. That's why I like that name so much. I thought there was another message hidden in the rest of the post, like "LOL" buried somewhere in the text, or encoded into the number of letters of each word of one of your sentences or something.

If you're disappointed I could always post the first million numbers of pi and replace one of the 0's with an 'O'. It's a fun puzzle. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: And before I forget, I'd be very grateful if you could take a glance this-a-ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237950) and maybe double-check my crunch? No head for numbers I'm afraid.

[Landis963]

I think so. While the general ideas of Almantha themselves are cool and idea-creating, some extra in-universe flavor never hurt.

OK, I'll devote the next post to that then.


If you're disappointed I could always post the first million numbers of pi and replace one of the 0's with an 'O'. It's a fun puzzle. :smallbiggrin:

At least until someone thinks to ctrl-F "O" and see where it hits in the string of numbers. :smalltongue:


Edit: And before I forget, I'd be very grateful if you could take a glance this-a-ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237950) and maybe double-check my crunch? No head for numbers I'm afraid.

I'll be the first to admit I'm just a layman when it comes to game balance, but I've pointed out a few things on that thread.

[Landis963]

THE FOUNDING OF ALMANTHA! *Trumpet fanfare*

The four Greatest Mages of the Alabasan court, Obsid the illusionist human, Saala the kiria healer, Dekon the druid elf, and Aqua the aventi water mage grew tired of the decadence and arrogance of their fellow courtiers. They gathered several like-minded populations and set out after faking their deaths and liberating four magic nexi, with the high-octane funeral proceedings covering their escape.

During their explorations for a new land where all their people could live in peace and equality, their ships were separated and blown to the four corners of the continent. Obsid and Dekon made landfall on the peninsula which now holds the gateway to Obsidia. Aqua and Saala, after a frustrated altercation on whether and how to contact the others (Saala insisted on having Aqua help her scry the two to see if they were alive, while Aqua pointed out that Saala could just send a wind to their location and offered sarcastically to fold up a letter into a paper airplane), split up, with Saala sailing to the north of the continent for landfall and Aqua floating to the west of the continent to make the precursor to Aquacor.

Obsid and his team of humans were content with the peninsula, but the day after Dekon and a contingent of elves left to found their own city a tiny child (some say it was Obsid's son, others say it wasn't) found a sleeping dragon in one of the caves. When he excitedly showed it to the rest of his friends, they made enough noise to warrant the dragon revealing his wakefulness. All of them ran back to the village, save one who was too frightened by the large winged lizard to move. The noises of the children had annoyed it enough to take notice, but the unprotected nature of the child made it curious. After talking with the child (the legends are silent on how the dragon knew the human language or how the boy was able to answer the dragon's questions without collapsing in fear), the dragon saw in the newcomers to his domain a source of magical power that would be unwise to antagonize, and unprofitable to ignore. When a squad of armored soldiers came to rescue the child, the dragon caused a huge fire to trap them in the antechamber, and sent out the child with an ultimatum: I will trade your child for your leader, and if you, he, or anyone else in your village would try to destroy me, I will kill him, his family, his family's family, and everyone else in the way. If you do not send your leader in the place of this child, I will simply burn down your village. And so Obsid was dispatched to broker a peace between his people and the dragon whose domain they had unwittingly trespassed upon. Many days passed, with the townsfolk nervously packing up and planning to defend their people on the way back to their boats, until the dragon himself emerged to announce the new terms of their partnership. Obsid, to the town's jubilation and relief, was seated on the dragon's back, alive and well. When the dragon died his cave was bequeathed to the population of Obsid's village, and was converted into a city designed to be impervious to attack, which was named Obsidia in the founder's honor. Obsid's statue kneels in fealty to the central tower of the Mind to this day, the earthly body paying homage to the divine one.

Dekon, having left before the debacle started, searched for a small forest he could turn into a proper elven village. He found one to the southern end of the continent, and made the oldest tree in the forest grow large enough to see everything that comprises Dekonio's current borders.

Saala and Aqua used the remains of their ships to house their populations, building what would become Saalarann and Aquacor around the skeletons of rigging, timber, and sail left over from their journey. However, since a lake is not as resource-intensive as, say, a plain, Aqua continually sent out scouts to find resources, who first found the canyon which would eventually house Revien and then the caves of Obsidia. When Obsid heard of the scouts, he was overjoyed - Aqua, and thus Saala, were alive! He bade the scouts return to Aqua with a letter, and then quickly sent a message to Dekon, now firmly entrenched in the trees of Dekonio. They met in the canyon at the center of the continent, with Aqua bringing a map so that they could divide it up as they saw fit. The place where they met was deemed best to have a neutral ground in the case of any feuds between nations, and thus Revien was founded as a city of balance.

As the four grew older, they returned to Revien with the problem of the magic nexi still unresolved. It quickly became apparent that all present did not want to leave their peoples and their nations behind, with reasons stretching from lack of confidence in a successor to simply selfish "there's still more I want to do". It was Obsid who suggested they use the magic nexi to tap into any remaining power left to them and more, and use that to extend their lifespans indefinitely. Aqua, while hesitant at first, quickly figured out a way to get a magic nexus to take on the brain functions of a single individual, causing that nexus, with the proper peripherals, to act as the individual. Dekon and Saala thrashed out the code of honor they would adhere to as gods, once this course of action had been agreed upon. On the day of ascension, the four cities were deserted in order to witness the birth of a pantheon. They stepped into a chamber at the center of the Noreun, and were never seen in their earthly forms again. The Minds, as they were known from that point forward, ruled their people wisely and well for the rest of their days.

Of course, that's what everybody thinks happened in the days of the Minds' arrival in Almantha and their ascension. The truth is... slightly different. Aqua, Saala, Dekon, and Arrusif knew they were going to become gods ever since they set eyes on Almantha. Arrusif suggested immortality as the solution to a lack of successors, Dekon suggested they be set up as gods, Aqua figured out how to pull such a feat off, and Saala wrote the laws they would use after their ascension. Once the plan had been decided, each returned to their ships and Saala brewed up a storm to send them their separate ways. Dekon and Arrusif lashed their ships together, while Aqua pushed hers and Saala's ships together while Saala "assisted" (that is, continued to fake the storm). Saala's and Aqua's arguments later were staged, as a pretense to split up further and colonize more of the continent. Much of Obsidia's founding is remembered unadulterated to the present, but with one difference. Arrusif founded what would become Obsidia, but he knew that if he didn't make it worth the dragon's while for them to stay, they were literally toast. So he gave up his spot as Mind of Obsidia to the dragon, and named the city after the dragon Obsid as a show of fealty. He and Dekon devised a... messier method of immortality, to avoid being parted, and they are fiercely loyal to each other to this day. On the day of ascension, Arrusif's body was already dead, a puppet of Aqua's meant to be taken underground, converted into a lich form by Dekon, who would then cast the spell to return Arrusif's mind to his now skeletal and vine-choked remains. Once he was rebuilt, he was shocked to learn of Obsid's changes to the history books, erasing his name and replacing his own. When he saw the gifts that Dekon and the others gave to Obsid, he stormed off, swearing revenge. Arrusif's name was also immortalized as the name of the religion they built around them, Fissura.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

First off: Oh wow. That was awesome! As a backdrop for a world, this was superb. I was literally riveted.


The four Greatest Mages of the Alabasan court, Obsid the illusionist human, Saala the kiria healer, Dekon the druid elf, and Aqua the aventi water mage grew tired of the decadence and arrogance of their fellow courtiers. They gathered several like-minded populations and set out after faking their deaths and liberating four magic nexi, with the high-octane funeral proceedings covering their escape.

So, they blew up the Court when they left? Kill 'Em All (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillEmAll): When “I Quit!” just will not do. :smallamused:



Of course, that's what everybody thinks happened in the days of the Minds' arrival in Almantha and their ascension. The truth is... slightly different. Aqua, Saala, Dekon, and Arrusif knew they were going to become gods ever since they set eyes on Almantha. Arrusif suggested immortality as the solution to a lack of successors, Dekon suggested they be set up as gods, Aqua figured out how to pull such a feat off, and Saala wrote the laws they would use after their ascension. Once the plan had been decided, each returned to their ships and Saala brewed up a storm to send them their separate ways. Dekon and Arrusif lashed their ships together, while Aqua pushed hers and Saala's ships together while Saala "assisted" (that is, continued to fake the storm). Saala's and Aqua's arguments later were staged, as a pretense to split up further and colonize more of the continent. Much of Obsidia's founding is remembered unadulterated to the present, but with one difference. Arrusif founded what would become Obsidia, but he knew that if he didn't make it worth the dragon's while for them to stay, they were literally toast. So he gave up his spot as Mind of Obsidia to the dragon, and named the city after the dragon Obsid as a show of fealty. He and Dekon devised a... messier method of immortality, to avoid being parted, and they are fiercely loyal to each other to this day. On the day of ascension, Arrusif's body was already dead, a puppet of Aqua's meant to be taken underground, converted into a lich form by Dekon, who would then cast the spell to return Arrusif's mind to his now skeletal and vine-choked remains. Once he was rebuilt, he was shocked to learn of Obsid's changes to the history books, erasing his name and replacing his own. When he saw the gifts that Dekon and the others gave to Obsid, he stormed off, swearing revenge. Arrusif's name was also immortalized as the name of the religion they built around them, Fissura.

I love this! An ancient and deadly undead foe who holds as his trump card the secret of the entire continent's religion, and he is legitimately pissed for getting rubbed out of the First Edition Bibles. I can't help but get a vibe out of this. I can see the PCs finding out the truth behind the Minds and basically having the same reaction as the Dark One from Oots towards the Gods after ascension: “What did you do!?”

A compelling mystery, with a setting-shattering revelation. Awesome. You are Awesome.

[Landis963]

First off: Oh wow. That was awesome! As a backdrop for a world, this was superb. I was literally riveted.

:smallcool: Thank you, Thank you. I'll be here all week.


So, they blew up the Court when they left? Kill 'Em All (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KillEmAll): When “I Quit!” just will not do. :smallamused:

They were courtiers, in an already decadent magic-using court. The pomp, pageantry, and fireworks involved could last for weeks. But to seal the deal, Dekon left behind a will that stipulated his death should be the best party of the year, just in case the normal pageantry wasn't enough.


I love this! An ancient and deadly undead foe who holds as his trump card the secret of the entire continent's religion, and he is legitimately pissed for getting rubbed out of the First Edition Bibles. I can't help but get a vibe out of this. I can see the PCs finding out the truth behind the Minds and basically having the same reaction as the Dark One from Oots towards the Gods after ascension: “What did you do!?”

A compelling mystery, with a setting-shattering revelation. Awesome. You are Awesome.

Oh it gets better, but there are some secrets one should probably save for an actual game.

[Omeganaut]

Great Mythology, now that its coming together I love it. In fact, I have an idea for an organization in Obsid

Prophets of Magma: (team magma from pokemon...) These strange and possibly insane humans (and a few Nomon) see the current land of Almantha as impure, and desire it to be renewed through being covered in lava. The highest circle knows the truth of Obsid's betrayal, and so the cult currently focuses on attacking images of Obsid and putting up messages from "Arrusif".

[Landis963]

Great Mythology, now that its coming together I love it. In fact, I have an idea for an organization in Obsid

Prophets of Magma: (team magma from pokemon...) These strange and possibly insane humans (and a few Nomon) see the current land of Almantha as impure, and desire it to be renewed through being covered in lava. The highest circle knows the truth of Obsid's betrayal, and so the cult currently focuses on attacking images of Obsid and putting up messages from "Arrusif".

I like it, although it needs a new name to distance it from Team Magma, and Arrusif would, of course, use an alias designed to mock the Fissura high priesthood. I'm thinking that prophets would deface Obsid's name wherever it appeared, as they would pictures of dragons, leaving a mark of "Fisura" in the human language of ancient Alabas (written in syllabic characters), claiming these acts in his name. "Fisura" is, of course, Arrusif, and the connotations of the name would not escape Saala and Aqua, although they would turn a blind eye to any incidents outside of their official jurisdictions. My original concept for the humans of Assuriville (unofficial name for the village which would grow into Obsidia) was that of a Japanese culture, which explains the character-alphabet.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Well, the Magma guys could also be called Kasaito, a corruption of the Japanese Kasai no akoraito which (according to Google Translate) means Acolytes of Fire. Or perhaps you could go with Eien which google says is shadow flame in Japanese and could also fit thematically.

[Landis963]

Ooh, I like "Kasaito". I might even add them to that organization list a few posts up.

[Landis963]

In the interest of 1) instituting limits, 2) drumming up some more discussion, and 3) bumping this thread in a manner only slightly more/less subtle than the first time, I have compiled a list of 10 things my magic can't do:


Cannot create sentient undead without the help of another mage (Earth mages can animate bodies and Fire mages can bring back souls and give them incorporeal bodies, but not both at the same time)
Cannot violate conservation of Matter or Energy (magical energy is instead taken from the caster in the upkeep of a spell)
Cannot change the phase of any matter to be used in a spell (in this way, Cold Orb is not an orb of supercooled air, it is a ball of cold water that turns to supercooled gas when the caster lets it go).
Cannot create life with its own magical presence without the assistance of another mage or massive amounts of power and a level of fine control difficult to more than one mage. (the creation of the nomon and the goblinoid races are thus unprecedented)
Cannot be used indefinitely
Cannot travel through time
Can only extend to line-of-sight of caster
Cannot be forced to take energy from somewhere (the sigils are an exception to this, and one that still stymies most of the civilized world).
Cannot control any phase of matter beyond that under the element of the caster. (This is the reason for #3, up there: water is stuck with controlling liquid and cold, Fire, on the other hand is stuck with plasma and heat)
Cannot provide intelligence to a being beyond that of the caster.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

In the interest of 1) instituting limits, 2) drumming up some more discussion, and 3) bumping this thread in a manner only slightly more/less subtle than the first time, I have compiled a list of 10 things my magic can't do:

Smashing! I was hoping this thread wouldn't die. Too many good ones already have. :smallfrown:



Cannot violate conservation of Matter or Energy (magical energy is instead taken from the caster in the upkeep of a spell)

This might just be me forgetting things, but did the Minds have something to do with magic? In the same way as a deity for a traditional (ie;D&D) Cleric?


Cannot change the phase of any matter to be used in a spell (in this way, Cold Orb is not an orb of supercooled air, it is a ball of cold water that turns to supercooled gas when the caster lets it go).
...
Cannot control any phase of matter beyond that under the element of the caster. (This is the reason for #3, up there: water is stuck with controlling liquid and cold, Fire, on the other hand is stuck with plasma and heat)

So a Water Caster can't use any Ice abilities because Ice counts as a solid? I think a touch of leeway is called for here. I'm hesitant to bring it up, but in the Last Airbender series (being the most recent/prominent elemental casting series in a long while) things like fog could be manipulated by both an Airbender and a Waterbender because fog was a combination of Air and Water. The same goes for mud being Water and Earth. Just a suggestion.


Cannot create life with its own magical presence without the assistance of another mage or massive amounts of power and a level of fine control difficult to more than one mage. (the creation of the nomon and the goblinoid races are thus unprecedented)

Sounds like a great Mystery Plot Hook!


Cannot be used indefinitely

Is there a reason why (beyond balance issues)? Is casting based partly on Stamina, or does the use of magic in an area slowly build up the area's immunity to be manipulated. Example: Two Water Casters dueling on a lake (see the lake fight in Hero (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGq6FXcpxtY )) will battle for a while, but eventually the effectiveness of their spells decrease until the water in the Lake stops responding to them at all. If they come back the next day, the lake will again be susceptible to magic. It can also be justified since the land is drenched in Magic, as you said in the OP, when casters use too much of it at once, there isn't enough left in the local are to manipulate the elements anymore.


Cannot travel through time

I'll assume you don't mean that spells can't move forward in time :smallamused: . Otherwise there'd be no way to cast anything other than instantaneous spells.


Cannot be forced to take energy from somewhere (the sigils are an exception to this, and one that still stymies most of the civilized world).


Although since the world is drenched in magic, it could be said that all magic comes from somewhere else. The casters could be wielding spells using magic gathered from directly around them.

Hope some of this is useful and not just me forgetting important stuff again.

[Landis963]

Smashing! I was hoping this thread wouldn't die. Too many good ones already have. :smallfrown:

It's not as though I didn't have time; the last thread took over a month to be deleted.



This might just be me forgetting things, but did the Minds have something to do with magic? In the same way as a deity for a traditional (ie;D&D) Cleric?

Not in that way, as everyone has magic, and don't require their gods to give it to them.


So a Water Caster can't use any Ice abilities because Ice counts as a solid? I think a touch of leeway is called for here. I'm hesitant to bring it up, but in the Last Airbender series (being the most recent/prominent elemental casting series in a long while) things like fog could be manipulated by both an Airbender and a Waterbender because fog was a combination of Air and Water. The same goes for mud being Water and Earth. Just a suggestion.

They can't control it as Ice, but they can, for example, draw out the liquid in an existing block of Ice, control that, and use that to break up and melt the rest at an accelerated rate. It just takes ingenuity, control, and a bit of luck. As for Fog and Water, both of those would be acceptable loopholes for any one of those mages to control the substance in question. they just have to phrase it like "I control the dirt in the Mud to fling it at my opponent", and makes a Control Earth check, and on a high enough roll has a greater chance of doing what he wants, whether that be to simply filter the dirt out and throw it or to throw the entire clod.


Sounds like a great Mystery Plot Hook!

Not really, it's widely known that Dekon created the nomon, and it's considered natural that only a god such as the Mind of Dekonio would have the power and the control necessary to create a new form of life such as the nomon.


Is there a reason why (beyond balance issues)? Is casting based partly on Stamina, or does the use of magic in an area slowly build up the area's immunity to be manipulated. Example: Two Water Casters dueling on a lake (see the lake fight in Hero (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGq6FXcpxtY )) will battle for a while, but eventually the effectiveness of their spells decrease until the water in the Lake stops responding to them at all. If they come back the next day, the lake will again be susceptible to magic. It can also be justified since the land is drenched in Magic, as you said in the OP, when casters use too much of it at once, there isn't enough left in the local are to manipulate the elements anymore.

Mostly balance issues, as well as mental and physical strain from the influx and direction of magical energy. (This leads me into a great trick I can use if one of my players tries to minmax an infinite loop: "You spontaneously combust after the Xth iteration. Roll up a new character.", with X being the iteration just after it starts getting broken)


I'll assume you don't mean that spells can't move forward in time :smallamused: . Otherwise there'd be no way to cast anything other than instantaneous spells.

Emphasis mine. You mean backwards, right? Because that's what I meant. No time travel shenanigans. You could argue that we're moving forward in time as we type these messages to each other, but this is neither the time nor the thread for that sort of discussion. I mean really, time travel discussions get screwy enough when semantics aren't in question.


Although since the world is drenched in magic, it could be said that all magic comes from somewhere else. The casters could be wielding spells using magic gathered from directly around them.

Hope some of this is useful and not just me forgetting important stuff again.

I merely meant that Spells will take energy from the most convenient source. Think electricity on its way to the ground. If the most direct path from input to output is the caster, then so be it. If through some other path, then so be it. The Caster merely provides the will, and how it happens is up to the magic. This has resulted in Chain Lightning KillSatting an enemy from above rather than emanating from the caster's hands. The Sigils are an exception to this, as they are essentially a contained circuit of magic, and no one in the civilized part of Almantha knows exactly how the inventors did it.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Not really, it's widely known that Dekon created the nomon, and it's considered natural that only a god such as the Mind of Dekonio would have the power and the control necessary to create a new form of life such as the nomon.

Alright. Another thing I forgot.


Mostly balance issues, as well as mental and physical strain from the influx and direction of magical energy. (This leads me into a great trick I can use if one of my players tries to minmax an infinite loop: "You spontaneously combust after the Xth iteration. Roll up a new character.", with X being the iteration just after it starts getting broken)

"Hey, guys? I don't think this mana-loop is working..."
"Just hang in there. Another round and those Minds'll have new rivals on the block."
"You...you realize the DM's right th-" SPLAT
"Aaah! Oh! It's everywhere!"
"Too bad. He was our Water Caster. Could have cleaned this right up..."


You mean backwards, right? Because that's what I meant. No time travel shenanigans. You could argue that we're moving forward in time as we type these messages to each other, but this is neither the time nor the thread for that sort of discussion. I mean really, time travel discussions get screwy enough when semantics aren't in question.

:smallamused: I knew what you meant. Just having some time-semantic-fun.


I merely meant that Spells will take energy from the most convenient source. Think electricity on its way to the ground. If the most direct path from input to output is the caster, then so be it. If through some other path, then so be it. The Caster merely provides the will, and how it happens is up to the magic. This has resulted in Chain Lightning KillSatting an enemy from above rather than emanating from the caster's hands. The Sigils are an exception to this, as they are essentially a contained circuit of magic, and no one in the civilized part of Almantha knows exactly how the inventors did it.

Okay, I see what you meant now.

[Landis963]

Alright. Another thing I forgot.

No worries, the complete profile of this world is in so many comparative pieces by now that it's surprising I got it all (well most of it) on the OP.


"Hey, guys? I don't think this mana-loop is working..."
"Just hang in there. Another round and those Minds'll have new rivals on the block."
"You...you realize the DM's right th-" SPLAT
"Aaah! Oh! It's everywhere!"
"Too bad. He was our Water Caster. Could have cleaned this right up..."

:smallbiggrin:


:smallamused: I knew what you meant. Just having some time-semantic-fun.

Gotcha.

I was wondering whether I should start work on the continent Dekon & Co. left behind, Alabas. I have a start of a history section, much like the one for Almantha, but not much else.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I was wondering whether I should start work on the continent Dekon & Co. left behind, Alabas. I have a start of a history section, much like the one for Almantha, but not much else.

You mentioned before that you thought the...I wanna say Dekon folks should resemble some Asian culture? I could be wrong. If that's the case, is there a set culture in your mind for Alabas? From the name I would say it looks like Scotland (once called Alba), and that makes me laugh to see a whole continent ruled by Scottish Wizards. The accents, man. The accents! :smalltongue:



An' if'n ye cohm ehne closah, e'll burrrrrn ye ol wid meh Fierrrrrrbole! Aht'll boile ye boones!

[Landis963]

You mentioned before that you thought the...I wanna say Dekon folks should resemble some Asian culture? I could be wrong. If that's the case, is there a set culture in your mind for Alabas? From the name I would say it looks like Scotland (once called Alba), and that makes me laugh to see a whole continent ruled by Scottish Wizards. The accents, man. The accents! :smalltongue:



An' if'n ye cohm ehne closah, e'll burrrrrn ye ol wid meh Fierrrrrrbole! Aht'll boile ye boones!



The people of what is now Obsidia had an asian-esque culture. (:smalltongue: It's actually good that you got it wrong, at least in terms of corralling spoilers) As for the Alabasan culture, there's not really much there in my mind: I just have what lead to the four mages leaving in the first place (decadence and complacency top the list, especially in terms of magical advancement) and that through a combination of overconfidence and stupidity, the ruling court eventually caused the destruction of most of the magic on Alabas. That's it. No names, no culture-basis, no nothing. :smallconfused: Actually that's not quite true. I did have a concept in mind for Alabas as a stand-alone, before I decided to merge it and Almantha into the world as a whole.

Concept: Caravans following Will-o-wisps across a blasted plain in search of a golden, paradisaical city.

As for the accents: :smalltongue: No. I love it, but it deserves a spot in a more parodic world than this.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Concept: Caravans following Will-o-wisps across a blasted plain in search of a golden, paradisaical city.

As for the accents: :smalltongue: No. I love it, but it deserves a spot in a more parodic world than this.

Och, I was just kidding with the accent (I need to have an emot for when I kid :smalltongue:). As for Alabas, yeah, I personally like to know exactly what a place is like if I mention it, but if it's not important then it's not important. All we need to know is that Alabas is a smoldering un-magical hole.

Was the accent good at least :smallamused:? [/kidd]

[Landis963]

Och, I was just kidding with the accent (I need to have an emot for when I kid :smalltongue:). As for Alabas, yeah, I personally like to know exactly what a place is like if I mention it, but if it's not important then it's not important. All we need to know is that Alabas is a smoldering un-magical hole.

I guess it's not really important, but I'm just wondering if we're coming to the end of the line with Almantha. :smallamused: And yes, I knew you were kidding.


Was the accent good at least :smallamused:? [/kidd]

It was highly amusing, if that's what you mean.

[Landis963]

So I'm coming to the conclusion that, in terms of world-building, I've developed too much of it to keep you guys from helping much (assuming, of course, that people besides Ninja still look at this thread). There's also my inexperience with directing a project such as this, meaning that I've left you hanging on several occasions when I could be channeling you towards empty spots on the map. So, in the interest of drumming up more support, and also in sparking more activity, here is a list of things that we have, and the things that could use more support.

Almantha:

Obsidia
We have the nomon, the fact that it's in a volcanic cavern, and Ominak Industries, which makes constructs among other things.
Apart from that, however, we don't have much. If you want to, say, expand on the nomon, or create a CEO of Ominak Industries, be my guest. (note, however, that Obsid likes to keep a close eye on Ominak, particularly if he has put forward a project of his own. Just something to keep in mind.)
Aquacor
Again, we have the aventi, we have Aquacor as a shape-shifting city made of water and ice, and we have the University of Aquacor. Also, I have something in mind for the ruling bodies of both the aventi and Aquacor as a whole: an oligarchy of the patriarchal or matriarchal figures of each school of aventi, known to outsiders as the Consortium of Schools, and a triumvirate of representatives that rules Aquacor itself. (the three represent the Consortium, the University, and the rest of the people, respectively).
If someone wants to, for example, make a proceedings for the Consortium, or expand on the University, or make up a new organization or something, go right ahead.
Saalarann
We have the kiria, we have Saalarann the airborne city, and... not much else. I'm actually going to cut the wingsuit-traceurs. I mean, why don't people just fly everywhere, even if they don't use the public-access teleporters? There's really no reason to even try and use the buildings.
if anyone feels passionately about the flying-squirrel traceurs, then by all means feel free to argue in their defense. Also, pretty much anything goes for Saalarann. Just remember two things: One, it's airborne, so anything not connected to buildings will fall down unless it has magical or mechanical propulsion and two: Saalarann has a democracy, housed in the center of town (in the same building that houses Saala's audience chamber, although you can't get there from the meeting area). However, you need to fly to get in there, and if you didn't show up, your vote isn't counted. (a loophole gleefully exploited on several occasions)
Dekonio
We have the elves, we have the giant tree of Dekonio, and we have the Sharenia library.
That said, the library is woefully under-described, as is elven society after their change to become more like plant-creatures. Note that Dekon likes to have a hand in everything, and will thus prune organizations that don't work or that he deems unnecessary.

[motoko's ghost]

So I'm coming to the conclusion that, in terms of world-building, I've developed too much of it to keep you guys from helping much (assuming, of course, that people besides Ninja still look at this thread).

I still check it everytime it updates, I just don't have anything relevant to add.:smallfrown:

[Landis963]

I still check it everytime it updates, I just don't have anything relevant to add.:smallfrown:

do you want to write for one of the things I listed above?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Had an idea for the Library...

The Sharenia Library

Named for Dekon's most promising pupil during his life, this Library serves as the repository of all knowledge collected in Alamantha. It lies near to the heart of Dekonio, partly absorbed into the Tree itself. It's walls are honeycombed with scrolls, tomes and other artifacts. For those seeking wisdom from older times, springwater is collected in pools set into alcoves. Each possesses the distilled knowledge of a long-dead sage or scholar, those who proved their worth to the Library through an accumulation of knowledge throughout their lives.

The Library is primarily a scholarly repository, leaving the University of Aquacor free to monopolize magical knowledge. The Sharenia Library is subdivided into various sections, or Chapters. The Green Chapter is devoted to more local knowledge, including Dekonio family histories and biographies. The Red Chapter, Obsidia. The White Chapter, Saalaran, and the Blue Chapter, Aquacor. There was, in addition to these, a White and Black Chapter. White Chapter holds much of the accumulated knowledge that does not pertain to a particular region, including various tomes on magical theory (on loan to Aquacor U) and histories of the other parts of the world.

Black Chapter, sadly, suffered a terrible fire some time ago. It's said that Sharenia perished in the fire, but was unable to preserve the works left there. These various unknown sources are collectively referred to as the Lost Words.

It is considered traditional for one of Sharenia's descendants to serve as Librarian, collecting and archiving everything that comes through. Several nomon act as assistants in this respect, and there are often rumors of kobolds also in service there, serving to prevent hostile magical entry.

Of Course, that isn't all of it. In truth, Sharenia was Dekon's most promising pupil...until she discovered the truth involving the lich Arussif. Before she could relay her discoveries to anyone else, she was taken care of, and her research in the Black Chapter was destroyed. The name of the library is more a cruel irony than anything else. Her family never learned the truth, and continue to worship Dekon faithfully.

[Landis963]

I like this. I like this a lot. However, I'm not sure how the springwater archives would work.

:smallsmile: I've got it. Aqua and Dekon wove a series of coincidences to get a water mage working for the library, specifically so that this sort of memory transfer could be stored all the way in Dekonio. That second scenario actually works the best for Dekon's character, and Aqua probably wouldn't care or would take a capricious joy in changing a single person's fate so utterly. (not that "fate" is something I plan to care about in this world, I tried a prophecy earlier but it just wouldn't work).

EDIT: also, a few quibbles: it's "nomon" for both singular and plural and species names like "human", "kobold" or "dung beetle" aren't capitalized.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Ah. I love typos. They're so baaaaad.

[Landis963]

Um, I just thought of a plothole in that scenario (and if it's intentional, great, I'm all for that backstory to the library either way). Where did the fire come from in the first place? And how did it get put out? Also, you have two "white" chapters, one pertaining to Saalarann, the other to general knowledge. I changed the Saalarann department's color to yellow below.

My current thought is that there was no fire, just Dekon growing thorny vines out of the walls to safeguard the tomes of necromancy that led to Arrusif's rebirth, and all the incriminating evidence collected by Sharenia, Dekon, and Arrusif safely locked behind the doors of the Black Chapter (solid ebony, and the only room that is blocked from public access). Of course, Sharenia was caught in these vines, but she knew too much.

As for the rest of the library, I'm going to give a description of the entrance area of the Library:

As you walk into the library, you notice that all sound seems to fade away, leaving only the hushed murmers of scholars at their work. You see six archways, three on each side, while opposite you is a relief of the woman whose sacrifice gave the library its name. the arch to your left, closest to the door, is flanked by bright crimson flowers, while the arch closer to the relief is similarly adorned with blue-green rushes. The archways on the opposite side are decorated with dark green needles and yellow clusters of trumpet-shaped flowers, respectively. Between the Green and Yellow archways is another arch, facing out onto the morning sun, bedecked in white clusters of bell-shaped flowers. Opposite the White archway, however, is a door, the only door present save the entrance. The door is a solid ebony double door, heavy-looking despite its size, with no flowers or reeds to adorn its frame. Instead, thorned vines jealously grip the door, holding it fast against any show of strength. In the very center of the room, there is a circular desk, behind which sit the Librarian's assistants.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

:smalleek:

I can't believe I used two Whites. Yeah, I like Yellow for Saalaran. Also,the idea about the Black Chapter is cool. I think the official story is still that someone (hint: nameless bad guys/malcontents in the story) burned the Black Chapter as a form of protest (the madmen!). But in truth, it's just as you say. Dekon couldn't risk a FIRE inside his tree, so he merely venus-fly-trapped Sharenia and the whole section in case anyone else used the materials to find out the truth.

If some sort of PC's end up investigating this and getting into the Library, perhaps Sharenia isn't dead. Perhaps her knowledge of Dekon's Lore was so great that she was able to survive by draining some of the Tree's lifeforce to sustain herself while captured. She's probably gone mad and will try to kill any PC's that enter the Black Chapter, but should return to sanity just as they defeat her, with only enough time left to let out some cryptic responses that could get them going on another such quest to get to the bottom of everything.

[Landis963]

:
If some sort of PC's end up investigating this and getting into the Library, perhaps Sharenia isn't dead. Perhaps her knowledge of Dekon's Lore was so great that she was able to survive by draining some of the Tree's lifeforce to sustain herself while captured. She's probably gone mad and will try to kill any PC's that enter the Black Chapter, but should return to sanity just as they defeat her, with only enough time left to let out some cryptic responses that could get them going on another such quest to get to the bottom of everything.

Do I smell a mini-boss fight? I smell a mini-boss fight.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Two things I thought of:

Draek Sindr
Mr Sindr, as he is often called, is one of the CEO currently sitting on Ominak's Board of Directors. He is a tall, lean human with ebony black hair and a predilection for wearing expensive charcoal attire. Mr Sindr was, as many CEOs are, directly placed on the Board by Obsid himself, and so he tends to hold great power among the rest of the leadership disproportionate to his actual power. His official title is Director of Human Resources, and he is highly regarded in that office. Publicly he is well liked, charming to a fault and apparently very generous, donating ludicrous sums of money to the less fortunate. Sindr is, to put it bluntly, a model businessman and gentleman.

Of course, nothing is what it seems. There's a reason Obsid handpicks some members of the Directorate of Ominak. They're related. Specifically, Draek Sindr and many others are secretly descendants of the Dragon Obsid who became the Fire Mind. Sindr, like all those before him, is half dragon, half human, though able to hide his draconic features with minimal effort. Even Sindr's official position is a misnomer. While his office staff deal with Human Resources, he...well. Sometimes downsizing leaves a few pink-slipped employees nowhere to go but a dark room where Sindr has his meals served...

Despite all this however, Sindr is not loyal to the Minds. He, like a few of his kind, are aware of the deception. He actually respects the Founders for their deviousness and their accomplishments, but he doesn't personally enjoy working for Obsid. For Sindr, nothing would be better than a world where he didn't have to keep looking over his shoulder and wondering what dear old Grampapa was thinking. Sindr has spent his time slowly making contacts in various locations throughout Almantha. He's not planning anything, per say, but he knows that if someone ever does show up who looks like they might stand a chance of freeing him from Obsid's control...well...

The Saalaran Grand Prix
The Grand Prix is an event like no other in Almantha. Kiria, and humans in aero-suits called Draalwa (or air armor), compete in a race that combines lightning quick reflexes, hair-trigger timing and an intimate acquaintance with wind. The Grand Prix is held on a series of tracks set through various high-altitude locations (though the tracks in Obsidia make excellent use of magma-heated updrafts at low-levels) throughout Almantha. Typically, kiria follow one path that is far more open than the other (allowing kiria to use their wingspan and agility), while humans take a secondary track that emphasizes the Draalwa's advantages (ie; minute control). In the case of the former, the tracks are open, spacious tactical races which rely on stamina and pacing, while the latter relies on sheer mental fortitude as well as the aforementioned hair-trigger control over spins, dives and glides. Human competitors also must train their bodies extensively so as to not pass out from the incredible G's they put on their bodies. Most races tend to avoid overlap, but the thrill of the near-miss has lead to an upswing in the number of intersecting races. The races are always designed so that each track is exactly equal in the amount of time it takes to complete, allowing for photo finishes between the kiria and human tracks.

The most famous, deadly, and magnificent race is the annual Saalaran Classic. The race is held across the entirety of the city, leading its racers on the most grueling, exhilarating ride of their lives. Fatalities almost always occur on this race, owing to the more trap-like nature of some parts of the city and the sheer length of the tracks, as well as the extensive overlap. Kiria participants are always on alert for falling humans, and humans often try to lose their nearest rivals in a "flock". While the winner of such a race would normally be given a cash prize (partly from the local betting pools, partly from the official pool anted at the start), the winner of the Classic is afforded a special honor, a "face-to-face" meeting, as it were, with Saala herself.

[Landis963]

Two things I thought of:

Draek Sindr

Excellent idea, especially for a nicely villainous figure for arcs in Obsidia.
However, there are a few things wrong with the design, IMO. One, for an individual connected with Obsid, whose entire existence is based upon obfuscation of his dragonness, Sindr's name is remarkably unsubtle. (I mean, "Drake Cinder"? What party wouldn't take a glance at that and realize instantly what he was?) Two, I'm not certain whether to allow half-dragons in the first place (mostly a question of physics and logistics, although if the deed could have been done, magic would take care of the rest), although the character can easily be switched to a normal human who knows and has few qualms about working for a dragon in a human intelligence's clothing. What's more, a major part of the Obsidia arc (if I haven't mentioned this before, I'm sorry) is Obsid's trying to hatch several dragon eggs in secret, and becoming paranoid and hyper-protective whenever anyone gets too close.


The Saalarann Grand Prix
([/grammarnazi])
Love it, especially with the difference between the human track and the kirian track. Perfect for a high-octane sporting event which the PCs can use to get in contact with Saala. However, Saalarann has been basically free-floating over Therinos since its construction, and thus there would need to be some teleport spell to get the racers from their starting points in Saalarann to wherever the beginning of the track is. This can be sidestepped with traditional uniforms or jerseys worn by the kiria and worked into the design of the Draalwa of each human participant sigiled with teleport spells or simply acting as targets for teleport spells cast by Saala. These uniforms would also have ghost sound sigils on them, to alert the wearer that the race is beginning in "3, 2, 1, GO!" Of course, the teleport functionality would be rather useless in the Saalarann Classic, but you can see why it would be added once the market grew for races "abroad".

[Ninjadeadbeard]

However, there are a few things wrong with the design, IMO. One, for an individual connected with Obsid, whose entire existence is based upon obfuscation of his dragonness, Sindr's name is remarkably unsubtle. (I mean, "Drake Cinder"? What party wouldn't take a glance at that and realize instantly what he was?)

Yeah, but that requires metagaming knowledge, which people in-setting don't have :smallwink:.


Two, I'm not certain whether to allow half-dragons in the first place (mostly a question of physics and logistics, although if the deed could have been done, magic would take care of the rest), although the character can easily be switched to a normal human who knows and has few qualms about working for a dragon in a human intelligence's clothing.

He might work better as just a human (albeit a highly trusted one by Obsid), you're right. Although magic has been shown to be pretty darn powerful in Almantha, so it'd be no stretch of the imagination for humano-draconic pairings.


What's more, a major part of the Obsidia arc (if I haven't mentioned this before, I'm sorry) is Obsid's trying to hatch several dragon eggs in secret, and becoming paranoid and hyper-protective whenever anyone gets too close.

Yeah. Never heard that one. I think maybe I could be more helpful if you posted a little thing on each of the Minds and their personalities/plans. The History post was helpful, but perhaps too subtle. Write up each of the Minds like a God in a regular D&D setting, if that helps organize their modus operendii.

It feels like a lot of the setting is still mostly in your own mind, so some of our input doesn't come off as helpful when we don't have the complete picture.



Love it, especially with the difference between the human track and the kirian track. Perfect for a high-octane sporting event which the PCs can use to get in contact with Saala. However, Saalarann has been basically free-floating over Therinos since its construction, and thus there would need to be some teleport spell to get the racers from their starting points in Saalarann to wherever the beginning of the track is. This can be sidestepped with traditional uniforms or jerseys worn by the kiria and worked into the design of the Draalwa of each human participant sigiled with teleport spells or simply acting as targets for teleport spells cast by Saala. These uniforms would also have ghost sound sigils on them, to alert the wearer that the race is beginning in "3, 2, 1, GO!" Of course, the teleport functionality would be rather useless in the Saalarann Classic, but you can see why it would be added once the market grew for races "abroad".

All this talk of teleportation. If Saalarann is a flying city (which I was aware of), why can't it be built vertically as well as horizontally? To an onlooker, Saalarann must be a sight to behold, a series of man-made mountains suspended high in the sky and spread over a great distance. But like the clouds around it, Saalarann could also be made to tower in places.

Essentially, the race starts near the top. The kiria are lower than the humans, and begin by swooping into a long, shallow, spiraling arc over the rest of Saalarann. The human competitors drop off the highest peak of the city and enter a controlled plummet (Star Trek 2009, baby!). Each track has designated checkpoints the racers are not allowed to deviate away from (missing checkpoints means disqualification), with the kiria banking besides various landmarks and through artificial trenches and canyons formed by parts of the city drifting nearby, while the humans have to dive through large rings set far apart (the idea being to glide a ways, and then enter a controlled dive to gain).

The kiria "finish line" is somewhere in the city, usually near the very bottom. The human one is a platform set up back on the ground (actually a teleportation circle that sends the racers right back to the true finish line with the kiria). Both tracks are measured to be equal in timing, not in distance. All racers are allowed a set number of Wind Spell Charges built into their official uniforms via implanted magic wands. These are all nonlethal spells designed to help a racer or hinder an opponent with a well-timed blast of wind. If a competitor attempts to use their own Native power, they are penalized and forced several places back by a referee.

Note: The uniforms also have a built in safety spell that minimizes impact damage (such as when you dive headlong into the earth trying to hit the human finish line or get pushed by a wind spell into a building).

[Landis963]

Yeah, but that requires metagaming knowledge, which people in-setting don't have :smallwink:.

Yes, but still, a good DM respects his players while driving their characters up various trees and into various pits while throwing stones at them. Making the CEO of a company have a very obviously dragon-ish name out-of-universe is akin to hitting a party with the clue-by-four prematurely.


He might work better as just a human (albeit a highly trusted one by Obsid), you're right. Although magic has been shown to be pretty darn powerful in Almantha, so it'd be no stretch of the imagination for humano-draconic pairings.

As I said, it's more a physics problem than anything else, and not one that dragons would realistically care much about solving.


Yeah. Never heard that one. I think maybe I could be more helpful if you posted a little thing on each of the Minds and their personalities/plans. The History post was helpful, but perhaps too subtle. Write up each of the Minds like a God in a regular D&D setting, if that helps organize their modus operendii.

It feels like a lot of the setting is still mostly in your own mind, so some of our input doesn't come off as helpful when we don't have the complete picture.

Yeah, sorry, I keep thinking that I'm going to recruit from this thread, and thus I feel leery about disclosing plot details. Ah well, I can recruit from the Roleplaying Games forum later. I'll type up profiles of each Mind in the morning.


All this talk of teleportation.

I was mainly thinking how do the racers get to, say, the Obsidian track, or the Dekonian track, without flying there directly. Teleport chestplates were the best thing I could come up with (I almost put down helmets).


If Saalarann is a flying city (which I was aware of), why can't it be built vertically as well as horizontally? To an onlooker, Saalarann must be a sight to behold, a series of man-made mountains suspended high in the sky and spread over a great distance. But like the clouds around it, Saalarann could also be made to tower in places.

Sounds fair, and basically what I envisioned when I thought it up.


Essentially, the race starts near the top. The kiria are lower than the humans, and begin by swooping into a long, shallow, spiraling arc over the rest of Saalarann. The human competitors drop off the highest peak of the city and enter a controlled plummet (Star Trek 2009, baby!). Each track has designated checkpoints the racers are not allowed to deviate away from (missing checkpoints means disqualification), with the kiria banking besides various landmarks and through artificial trenches and canyons formed by parts of the city drifting nearby, while the humans have to dive through large rings set far apart (the idea being to glide a ways, and then enter a controlled dive to gain).

The kiria "finish line" is somewhere in the city, usually near the very bottom. The human one is a platform set up back on the ground (actually a teleportation circle that sends the racers right back to the true finish line with the kiria). Both tracks are measured to be equal in timing, not in distance. All racers are allowed a set number of Wind Spell Charges built into their official uniforms via implanted magic wands. These are all nonlethal spells designed to help a racer or hinder an opponent with a well-timed blast of wind. If a competitor attempts to use their own Native power, they are penalized and forced several places back by a referee.

Note: The uniforms also have a built in safety spell that minimizes impact damage (such as when you dive headlong into the earth trying to hit the human finish line or get pushed by a wind spell into a building).

Terminal velocity would still be basically lethal though; a deflector shield can only do so much when it tries to deflect the ground. Also, I've got this great idea for the opening ceremonies. Just before the race, the racers (human and kiria) are ushered into a large circular room, that is dark save for a few windows, through which they can hear the crowd roaring in anticipation. they take their places around the edge of the room, and when the announcer calls out "Please Welcome the Racers of the 25th Annual Saalarann Classic!" the floor detaches from the building and starts falling down to the ground. This is the racers' cue to jump backward off the platform and soar in a highly choreographed arc to their starting positions (the one and only time during the race when they are allowed to use their natural power), to rapturous applause. Then the countdown is given (by Saala herself, the one remaining weakness of her pre-ascension days), and they're off. The platform that fell earlier is actually the human finish line, and it is designed to release the checkpoint hoops as it falls.

Also, the refs should be called lakitus. :smalltongue:

One other thing Ninja, what time zone are you in? Because it's 2:30 AM my end and I've never seen you post before 1.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

One other thing Ninja, what time zone are you in? Because it's 2:30 AM my end and I've never seen you post before 1.

Well. I'm up waaaay too late right now, but it's 2:30 in California. Since you posted at 12:30 (according to my clock) I'm guessing you're somewhere east of the Mississippi...assuming American residency (and really, why would I ever think anyone would hold residency elsewhere at all :smallamused:).

As to your post. I aggree emphatically with everything you mentioned. Sleepy time now.

[Landis963]

Profiles of the Minds

Dekon

God of Earth, known as the Living Tree. A kindly God, he controls the plants around Dekonio. His mouthpiece is a sapling, his symbol is a pinecone. His favored people are the elves, and they look upon him as children do their father. He is lawful good. However, he sees himself as more of a gardener than a father, and will not hesitate to make an "evil" decision if it provides the best outcome for all. Also, he is devoted to his best friend, Obsid, his best friend since before their ascension.
Make that "Arrusif". He and Dekon have been working together since Arrusif became a lich, with Dekon working to curb Arrusif's more needlessly destructive plots.

Obsid

God of Fire, known as the Soul of Flame. Feels a great responsibility towards the people of his city, and will routinely hold back lava flows so that people can escape. True Neutral, in theory. After Dekon gifted the nomon to him, they quickly became his favored people, even more so than the humans who flood the city. His mouthpiece is a sleeping dragon, his symbol is a folded wing of flame. However, he has become strangely distracted of late, and highly defensive and evasive when questioned. Luckily, hardly anyone questions him.
This is because a clutch of dragon eggs from his ascension is incubating in lava and just about to hatch. He is thus trying to hold the magma in their chamber while keeping anyone else from finding them and discovering his secret.

Aqua

Goddess of Water, known as the Source of All. Vivacious and energetic as she was in life, and takes a great interest in sculpting water and ice into aesthetic shapes. Chaotic Good, mostly. If any people would be favored by her, it would be the aventi, but for the most part she doesn't care much about the day-to-day workings of her city. Her mouthpiece is an empty throne with tentacles of water surrounding it, her symbol is a teardrop falling into a snowflake.
However, she is beginning to dabble in the mind-affecting powers of water magic. At the bottom of the lake she created, there is a bubble of air, in which float several unconscious people. They are connected in a sort of biological computer, through magical synchronization of thought, and Aqua uses this makeshift computer as memory capacity and extra data cycles. Thankfully for the occupants, she has not hit upon the idea of using adrenalin for purposes of overclocking, or she has but considers it abhorrent.

Saala

Goddess of Air, known as the Breath of Sky. Lawful Neutral to the core, she wrote the code of conduct that all four of the Minds adhere to. Her favored people are the kiria, but that favoritism simply exists in a trust in them to do the right thing. Has a great weakness for the Saalarann Grand Prix, to the point where she has specifically hired several water mages to be trained in scrying, simply so she and the people of Saalarann can watch the race in greater detail. her mouthpiece is a thunderous cyclone, and her symbol is a stylised version of the same.
What, were you expecting a plot twist?


Well. I'm up waaaay too late right now, but it's 2:30 in California. Since you posted at 12:30 (according to my clock) I'm guessing you're somewhere east of the Mississippi...assuming American residency (and really, why would I ever think anyone would hold residency elsewhere at all :smallamused:).


I'm actually in Michigan right now, to answer your question.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Dekon

God of Earth, known as the Living Tree. A kindly God, he controls the plants around Dekonio. His mouthpiece is a sapling, his symbol is a pinecone. His favored people are the elves, and they look upon him as children do their father. He is lawful good. However, he sees himself as more of a gardener than a father, and will not hesitate to make an "evil" decision if it provides the best outcome for all. Also, he is devoted to his best friend, Obsid, his best friend since before their ascension.

Going with the gardener theme, perhaps Dekon is interested in family trees as well. He specifically prunes and weeds lineages of those elves he feels kindly towards, setting up marriages, sometimes secluding a member with an undesirable trait. He does it mostly as a benign hobby.


Aqua

Goddess of Water, known as the Source of All. Vivacious and energetic as she was in life, and takes a great interest in sculpting water and ice into aesthetic shapes. Chaotic Good, mostly. If any people would be favored by her, it would be the aventi, but for the most part she doesn't care much about the day-to-day workings of her city. Her mouthpiece is an empty throne with tentacles of water surrounding it, her symbol is a teardrop falling into a snowflake.
However, she is beginning to dabble in the mind-affecting powers of water magic. At the bottom of the lake she created, there is a bubble of air, in which float several unconscious people. They are connected in a sort of biological computer, through magical synchronization of thought, and Aqua uses this makeshift computer as memory capacity and extra data cycles. Thankfully for the occupants, she has not hit upon the idea of using adrenalin for purposes of overclocking, or she has but considers it abhorrent.

So...she's a Weird Scientist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_tVZFZ5PR4)?:smallwink: She lives off Science alone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJIiueWfXE)?:smallamused:

Going by Aqua's personality, I can see her University will be an interesting place. Made of water, and prone to shape shift at the whim of it's occupants. Need a lecture hall? Say no more, an amphitheater will be formed within minutes. A lab for magical tests? Not a problem, just walk through the wall on your left. Mind the sharktopus.


Saala

Goddess of Air, known as the Breath of Sky. Lawful Neutral to the core, she wrote the code of conduct that all four of the Minds adhere to. Her favored people are the kiria, but that favoritism simply exists in a trust in them to do the right thing. Has a great weakness for the Saalarann Grand Prix, to the point where she has specifically hired several water mages to be trained in scrying, simply so she and the people of Saalarann can watch the race in greater detail. her mouthpiece is a thunderous cyclone, and her symbol is a stylised version of the same.
What, were you expecting a plot twist?

Kinda interesting for someone representing Air to be so rules-minded. But being an action-junky must make up for that.

Just a thought: Is there a throne-room type place each of the Minds resides in in their cities? Like Aqua's throne is a specific thing in a specific room somewhere in Aquacor? If so, Saala might have trouble fitting in one.


I'm actually in Michigan right now, to answer your question.

Timezones. Amirite? :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Going with the gardener theme, perhaps Dekon is interested in family trees as well. He specifically prunes and weeds lineages of those elves he feels kindly towards, setting up marriages, sometimes secluding a member with an undesirable trait. He does it mostly as a benign hobby.

Sure, why not? It might be a great honor to be given a match by Dekon himself. It also explains why the genealogy stuff is in the Green Chapter of the Sharenia Library.


Going by Aqua's personality, I can see her University will be an interesting place. Made of water, and prone to shape shift at the whim of it's occupants. Need a lecture hall? Say no more, an amphitheater will be formed within minutes. A lab for magical tests? Not a problem, just walk through the wall on your left. Mind the sharktopus.

To be fair, the entire city is like that. Aqua pays lip service to a city layout by having set archways that anyone with the right password/clearance can expand into a studio/atrium/sleeping pod by palming the right archway while thinking the right things. Other than that, she leaves the occupants to do much of the work of deciding the inside of the city on a daily basis.


Kinda interesting for someone representing Air to be so rules-minded. But being an action-junky must make up for that.

There are certain cliches that I'd like to avoid on principle: The Fire mage is always the hothead (when logically, they should be the most stoic and controlled of casters, to avoid losing control), the Air mage is always the one that's out to have a good time, the water mage is always the literal ice queen, etc.


Just a thought: Is there a throne-room type place each of the Minds resides in in their cities? Like Aqua's throne is a specific thing in a specific room somewhere in Aquacor? If so, Saala might have trouble fitting in one.

Yes. All of the throne rooms are just below the place with the magic nexus in each city. Dekon's is just beneath the canopy(in fact, it is the last room in the trunk before it splits off into smaller branches, and if you look up, you can barely see the magic nexus that powers him. Saala's is just above the voting hall, and is bare of any decoration save windows at regular intervals and three orbs set into the floor in a circle around the center of the room. This is where Saala generates her mouthpiece (which can be any size, BTW, and in fact Saala has found "as tall as the room" to be a conveniently imposing size for the purposes of greeting supplicants and champions). Aqua's is similarly at the top of the central tower (incidentally, this central tower is the one constant of Aquacor's skyline), and her throne is opposite the archway where someone can press open the door. Obsid's throne room is encrusted with the gold, minerals, and jewels he found in life, and the floor is etched with the dragon's image, curled up and expanded to fit the room.

So naturally, when the floor of Obsid's room rises up to attack the party, they are given fair warning of what their opposition is.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

There are certain cliches that I'd like to avoid on principle: The Fire mage is always the hothead (when logically, they should be the most stoic and controlled of casters, to avoid losing control), the Air mage is always the one that's out to have a good time, the water mage is always the literal ice queen, etc.

Wasn't critcising. In fact, I also like Fire Mages who have to be calm (or else boom).


Yes. All of the throne rooms are just below the place with the magic nexus in each city. Dekon's is just beneath the canopy(in fact, it is the last room in the trunk before it splits off into smaller branches, and if you look up, you can barely see the magic nexus that powers him. Saala's is just above the voting hall, and is bare of any decoration save windows at regular intervals and three orbs set into the floor in a circle around the center of the room. This is where Saala generates her mouthpiece (which can be any size, BTW, and in fact Saala has found "as tall as the room" to be a conveniently imposing size for the purposes of greeting supplicants and champions). Aqua's is similarly at the top of the central tower (incidentally, this central tower is the one constant of Aquacor's skyline), and her throne is opposite the archway where someone can press open the door. Obsid's throne room is encrusted with the gold, minerals, and jewels he found in life, and the floor is etched with the dragon's image, curled up and expanded to fit the room.

So naturally, when the floor of Obsid's room rises up to attack the party, they are given fair warning of what their opposition is.

Alright, nice. So, what do they look like as Minds? I assumed originally that they were like that pic I showed you earlier, the big glowing rock. Sort of transformed into these great self-aware artifacts of power that could project their power and influence across the world, but they were confined physically. Am I correct in these assumptions?

[Landis963]

Alright, nice. So, what do they look like as Minds? I assumed originally that they were like that pic I showed you earlier, the big glowing rock. Sort of transformed into these great self-aware artifacts of power that could project their power and influence across the world, but they were confined physically. Am I correct in these assumptions?

Well, it depends. Technically the self-aware artifact of power is the city itself, powered by the magic nexus at the top of each elemental city's central tower. The "throne room" is merely a convenient place for them to inhabit an avatar. For example, Dekon prefers to bend the branches of his sapling to create messages when "talking" to someone in his throne room, Obsid uses electronic speakers built into the dragon carving in the floor, Saala uses "ghost sound" to speak to someone in their throne room (EDIT: and uses weather magic for the visual part, i.e. the cyclone and thunder), and Aqua projects her thoughts directly into a physical person's mind, telling them that she needs one of them to sit in the empty throne for her to speak with them all. If asked why she doesn't just project something for them to address, she retorts that 1) the person who sits in the chair will emerge unharmed, and 2) she gets to see the experiences of the vessel as payment for her answering the questions or providing the services the supplicant requires. "Also, I'm a goddess, why are you questioning me in the first place?"

[Landis963]

Elven biology

The changes wrought in the elven population by the nexus have been far-reaching and have had massive implications culturally and beyond. The first of these has been the de-emphasis on food as a means of survival. Any elf can subsist on sunlight, water, and ground-based nutrients accumulated while sleeping, without the need for food of any kind. However, they still prefer the taste of food, and because of their vegetable nature, excess calories are used in displays of color, leaf, and fruit.

These "outfits" are fresh-grown each morning, and are generally shaped according to the desires of the elf; an elf looking to store energy long-term will grow fruits (only causing a slight pain when picked voluntarily), one looking to impress or attract will grow flowers, one looking for something more practical will simply grow leaves or needles, and one preparing for battle will grow thorns and secrete poison.

To protect against physically inflammatory attacks or disasters, elves create suits of stone armor, and will physically put the plates of armor on after they wake up. Because of this, they will choose to grow an outfit of vines, which they use to lash the pieces of armor in place. They prefer to use a specific type of petrified wood known as ebony (transliterated from the elven ebon`a, or "black-wood", a euphemism for "dead wood" or "rock wood"), for it's tendency to break off in flat, obsidian-esque pieces, although any rock will work in a pinch. Well-crafted suits of fire-armor are passed down from generation to generation, and many elven families have tinkered with and improved their family suits as needed. Many elves are also trained in anti-magic from an early age, although the teachers tend to overspecialize their lessons into "anti-fire" because of the high amount of danger.

When an attack manages to slip through the armor, the resulting wound gets covered in scar tissue-like bark, which in turn prevents the same area from attack. However, there is no way to grow anything from beneath an area of bark. This leads to elven adventurers or mercenaries retiring relatively earlier than their human counterparts, because bark scarring inhibits their ability to put on armor normally.

Elves sleep by growing a tough, rigid seedpod around themselves, with roots penetrating into the ground searching for water or for nutrients to make up any deficit in energy or diet balance. For all intents and purposes, these pods are impenetrable and impermeable, although their occupants literally sleep like logs.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Elven biology

This is a really unique take on the "Nature Folk" stereotype Elves sometimes fill. I really love how this works. Although I would like to see a mention of flammability (plant people + fire = no bueno). It's the sadistic part of me.

[Landis963]

This is a really unique take on the "Nature Folk" stereotype Elves sometimes fill. I really love how this works. Although I would like to see a mention of flammability (plant people + fire = no bueno). It's the sadistic part of me.

I'll add an edit, once I figure out whether to treat it like organic burns, burn scars on trees, or whether something else occurs to me. And that would be something that they would keep in mind.

EDIT: done. Them simply growing bark didn't seem to cut it, so I decided to add a type of armor/shielding that will be only available in Dekon's forest. I might add something about bark naturally growing to cover wounds (as their answer to scar tissue), but if/when I add that, it will be in the morning.

[Landis963]

Aaand it's done. Elven biology 1.2 is now go.

[Landis963]

I'm considering adding a bit on astronomy, with (among other things) more than one moon and a not 24-hour day. However, when you have more than one moon, you have to take into account the physics and gravitic fluctuations of two objects orbiting around a third, not to mention the fact that there is a diminishing returns limit on lunar-object size around an otherwise earth-like planet, especially if you want them to have a stable-enough orbit that crashing them conveniently into the side of the planet is not workable as a deus-ex-machina. Thoughts?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Ironically, my first posts on this site were involved with the idea of twin moons. We managed to cobble together a calendar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200140), although you might not have a use for it.

How do two moons effect the culture of the setting? I mean, regardless of what the moons' scientific orbit-stuff might be, they'll stay up cuz you say so. It might be a touch cliched to have the moons be important to the Water guys (tides and all that), but it wouldn't be cliched if it didn't make sense to some degree.

I'm a little out of it tonight, so forgive me if I seem brief.

[Landis963]

Ironically, my first posts on this site were involved with the idea of twin moons. We managed to cobble together a calendar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200140), although you might not have a use for it.

How do two moons effect the culture of the setting? I mean, regardless of what the moons' scientific orbit-stuff might be, they'll stay up cuz you say so. It might be a touch cliched to have the moons be important to the Water guys (tides and all that), but it wouldn't be cliched if it didn't make sense to some degree.

I'm a little out of it tonight, so forgive me if I seem brief.

My original though was to have 4 moons, then have them orbiting around Therinos in such a way that the Fissuran religion could co-opt them into months, one for each element, and base the year off that. But then I started thinking: "a system with a planet with 4 moons either needs a very large planet or very small moons, and since I need all the moons to be visible enough to have significance, 4 moons might be a tad much" leading to that rambling about "gravitic fluctuations" in my previous post.

However, I came up with another thought. What if the first moon was natural, formed during Therinos' creation like if our Moon was formed without the impact of an asteroid? (the chunk would be a tad more irregular, to be sure, not to mention asteroid impacts), however, the second moon, orbiting around the first, is an artifact of Alabas capable of converting solar energy to magic energy, and then casting it away from the moon's surface? That would make the occasions when the satellite cast it's rays on Earth all the more worthy of celebration. Of course, such an artifact would be the crowning achievement of Alabas, even more so if at moon's height, syzygy would occur between the moon, it's satellite, and the capitol of Alabas. (of course, they would need to meddle - extensively - in the orbits of both the satellite and the moon in order to keep this sort of alignment happening on a predictable basis, thus leading to a good reason why the Minds would break away).

In terms of calendar events, this would create celebrations based around it and the creation of both highly accurate astronomical predictive instruments (gotta know where exactly the eclipse will fall, after all) and systems and rituals to contain and redirect the power. The celebrations would probably be seen as harmless by the minds, but the rituals and systems would be outright banned by order of Fissura canon (because the Minds hate what Alabas became and see their power-hunger as one of the reasons they left in the first place).

More later: I'm going to bed. However, I'd be glad if you wanted to respond to this (in the morning, mind you: you did say it was 2:30 AM your end? :smalltongue:).

[Landis963]

Ironically, my first posts on this site were involved with the idea of twin moons. We managed to cobble together a calendar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200140), although you might not have a use for it.

How do two moons effect the culture of the setting? I mean, regardless of what the moons' scientific orbit-stuff might be, they'll stay up cuz you say so. It might be a touch cliched to have the moons be important to the Water guys (tides and all that), but it wouldn't be cliched if it didn't make sense to some degree.

I'm a little out of it tonight, so forgive me if I seem brief.

My original though was to have 4 moons, then have them orbiting around Therinos in such a way that the Fissuran religion could co-opt them into months, one for each element, and base the year off that. But then I started thinking: "a system with a planet with 4 moons either needs a very large planet or very small moons, and since I need all the moons to be visible enough to have significance, 4 moons might be a tad much" leading to that rambling about "gravitic fluctuations" in my previous post.

However, I came up with another thought. What if the first moon was natural, formed during Therinos' creation like if our Moon was formed without the impact of an asteroid? (the chunk would be a tad more irregular, to be sure, not to mention asteroid impacts), however, the second moon, orbiting around the first, is an artifact of Alabas capable of converting solar energy to magic energy, and then casting it away from the moon's surface? That would make the occasions when the satellite cast it's rays on Earth all the more worthy of celebration. Of course, such an artifact would be the crowning achievement of Alabas, even more so if at moon's height, syzygy would occur between the moon, it's satellite, and the capitol of Alabas. (of course, they would need to meddle - extensively - in the orbits of both the satellite and the moon in order to keep this sort of alignment happening on a predictable basis, thus leading to a good reason why the Minds would break away).

In terms of calendar events, this would create celebrations based around it and the creation of both highly accurate astronomical predictive instruments (gotta know where exactly the eclipse will fall, after all) and systems and rituals to contain and redirect the power. The celebrations would probably be seen as harmless by the minds, but the rituals and systems would be outright banned by order of Fissura canon (because the Minds hate what Alabas became and see their power-hunger as one of the reasons they left in the first place).

More later: I'm going to bed. However, I'd be glad if you wanted to respond to this (in the morning, mind you: you did say you were 2 hours ahead of me? :smalltongue:).

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It's just 11pm right now, and I've had an idea.

Four moons seems a bit much, as you said, but how about four astral bodies? The main Moon is one, then the second. Finally there might be a particularly prominent Star (like Polaris with Earth) and a nearby planet. While Alabas may have had a hand in these things, there's no reason the commoners would know.

According to Fissura Canon, the primary moon is a manifestation of Dekon's power, and the secondary is the same for Obsid (first moon is green, second is red). The officials in the church who make these sorts of decisions figured a green and red moon so close to each other must naturally represent Dekon and Obsid's close relationship. Likewise, the Arch Star (due to it resting at the highest point of the sky, or Arch), is a rather vivid silvery-blue color and often associated with Aqua due to this as well as its tendency to wax and wane like the tides (I'm assuming few understand the relationship between the moon, gravity and tides on Almantha cuz otherwise this all falls apart). The nearby planet (like Mars or Jupiter), is often thought of as a star. It is believed to represent Saala because it's orbital pattern across the sky seems to always hold near the Arch Star, thus representing Aqua and Saala's less-obvious closeness.

And for PC's to figure out:that Lich, Arussif? Whenever his presence is felt it is represented by Sun imagery, as his thirst for vengeance is ever-burning, and/or he is the TRUE Mind of Fire, with Obsid only a pretender.

Anyway that's what I got tonight. I'll check back tomorrow evening. Sleep is coming.

[Landis963]

It's just 11pm right now, and I've had an idea.

Four moons seems a bit much, as you said, but how about four astral bodies? The main Moon is one, then the second. Finally there might be a particularly prominent Star (like Polaris with Earth) and a nearby planet. While Alabas may have had a hand in these things, there's no reason the commoners would know.

No amount of power would be able to affect the planets (or the stars, like they theorized) like how you're implying, not even that attained by Alabas in its heyday. Not that it stopped them from trying, of course, leading to the trick with the second moon, but even that failed to grant them the power to travel to or affect what is now the star associated with Aqua. Will think up names for these planets and stars later,


According to Fissura Canon, the primary moon is a manifestation of Dekon's power, and the secondary is the same for Obsid (first moon is green, second is red). The officials in the church who make these sorts of decisions figured a green and red moon so close to each other must naturally represent Dekon and Obsid's close relationship. Likewise, the Arch Star (due to it resting at the highest point of the sky, or Arch), is a rather vivid silvery-blue color and often associated with Aqua due to this as well as its tendency to wax and wane like the tides (I'm assuming few understand the relationship between the moon, gravity and tides on Almantha cuz otherwise this all falls apart). The nearby planet (like Mars or Jupiter), is often thought of as a star. It is believed to represent Saala because it's orbital pattern across the sky seems to always hold near the Arch Star, thus representing Aqua and Saala's less-obvious closeness.

I like it, but I think the Arch Star should be 1) as bright as Vega, if not brighter, and less of a bluish light and 2) should be associated with Saala, not Aqua. Aqua would get a Jupiter-sized Neptune visible enough to discern its blue tint, especially as it's widely known how energetic Aqua is and how sedated Saala is in contrast. The rest is unchanged.


And for PC's to figure out:that Lich, Arussif? Whenever his presence is felt it is represented by Sun imagery, as his thirst for vengeance is ever-burning, and/or he is the TRUE Mind of Fire, with Obsid only a pretender.

Anyway that's what I got tonight. I'll check back tomorrow evening. Sleep is coming.

:smallbiggrin: I like that, a lot. And it provides a whole new dimension on designing the boss fight rooms.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

No amount of power would be able to affect the planets (or the stars, like they theorized) like how you're implying, not even that attained by Alabas in its heyday. Not that it stopped them from trying, of course, leading to the trick with the second moon, but even that failed to grant them the power to travel to or affect what is now the star associated with Aqua. Will think up names for these planets and stars later,

A simple misreading on my part. I mistook what you meant about Alabas and the Moon. Pay it no heed.


I like it, but I think the Arch Star should be 1) as bright as Vega, if not brighter, and less of a bluish light and 2) should be associated with Saala, not Aqua. Aqua would get a Jupiter-sized Neptune visible enough to discern its blue tint, especially as it's widely known how energetic Aqua is and how sedated Saala is in contrast. The rest is unchanged.

I think switching them is a great idea in any case. As to the Gas Giant:
Wouldn't it be awesome for a one-off adventure to have PCs get flung from Almantha to this world, and find that it is an O2-rich gas giant? Flying cities and small atmosphere-bound planetoids and all that. And multi-colored people a la John Carter of Mars.

Like I said, a cool one-off. But let's get back to Almantha.

[Landis963]

I think switching them is a great idea in any case. As to the Gas Giant:
Wouldn't it be awesome for a one-off adventure to have PCs get flung from Almantha to this world, and find that it is an O2-rich gas giant? Flying cities and small atmosphere-bound planetoids and all that. And multi-colored people a la John Carter of Mars.

Like I said, a cool one-off. But let's get back to Almantha.

8D

Oh man, that is such a cool idea.

And it could work too: that magic broadcasting thing orbiting the moon doesn't stop just because it isn't pointing at Therinos. The arc of the magic broadcasting would diffuse after a while of course, but if there's enough magic pointed in that direction to kickstart sentient life...

EDIT: :smallfurious: NOOOOOO! I had a big post all set to go about the Arch Star, Aqua's planet Acor, and both moons, but then I hit a button and I was sent back here!

[Landis963]

So I've decided to scrap associating specific planets to the four Minds, if only because the post with all the relevant info has been lost to the great recycle bin in the sky. Oh yeah, and:

The thread lives again!

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The thread lives again!

It's alive. It's ALIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GRQHsAVjI)!

So...where were we? :smallsmile:

[Landis963]

It's alive. It's ALIVE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8GRQHsAVjI)!

So...where were we? :smallsmile:

We WERE discussing the astronomy of Almantha, and you had some great ideas that I swear were implemented into that giant astronomy post that was lost, but I came to realize that it doesn't really work when the gods in question are physically interacting with their supplicants on a day-to-day basis. The artifact moon that broadcasts all the magic it can soak up is still there, as is the larger, natural moon it orbits around, and the Arch Star and the blue gas giant, and maybe a couple rocky planets between it and Therinos, but none of them has any real cultural significance beyond navigational aids.

I was on an Elder Scrolls kick at the time, and on Tamriel, the Nine Divines' home planes look like planets against the blackness of Oblivion and the starry holes punched to Aetherius. (Don't ask-long story involving Nirn's creation) Elder Scrolls astronomy is weird, and I made the mistake of thinking that they were the planes of the Daedra (rather than the Aedra, an elven name for the Divines), omnipotent but trickable beings who love using mortals for various things, from the benevolent to the destructive to the literally insane. All of whom are, IMO, much more interesting than the Aedra, who devote their entire existence to keeping Tamriel running and thus do not appear except as deus ex machinae. As a side note, I'm going to be writing the Minds as Daedra-in-character, if not in name. It makes them more interesting, I find, and more liable to affect the plot in the way that gods should (I mean, they have affected the plot of TES on numerous occasions, ranging from central figures in DLC storylines to fully-fledged antagonists and plot-instigators)

Going forward, I think the Minds need fleshing out. They're kind of one-note now, with the possible exception of Obsid, and even he needs some sort of face to present to the public when he can't be paranoid at them. As it is, Dekon is a carbon copy of the Great Deku Tree with a dark side, Obsid is a dragon-in-Mind's clothing whose children are hatching, and he's going insane trying to keep it a secret, Aqua is a giddy socialite in the form of a city, and Saala has an ivory tower complex, literally and figuratively.

[Landis963]

Scratch that, we need to flesh out the Revien Freelancer Guard. All I have currently is that joining them would be the start of an adventure a la "you all start in an inn", and that they're genre savvy enough to know that teams of 6 or 7 are just enough to get the job done, but not much more than that. (furthermore, these extra groups would be quick-n-easy respawns in case of TPK) Sympathetic Merc group? UNATCO-esque authority? I'm not entirely sure. So, in an effort to spark discussion again, where should I go with this?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

This was the post I was working on when the Interwebs forgot Giantitp existed for a few hours.


Going forward, I think the Minds need fleshing out. They're kind of one-note now, with the possible exception of Obsid, and even he needs some sort of face to present to the public when he can't be paranoid at them. As it is, Dekon is a carbon copy of the Great Deku Tree with a dark side, Obsid is a dragon-in-Mind's clothing whose children are hatching, and he's going insane trying to keep it a secret, Aqua is a giddy socialite in the form of a city, and Saala has an ivory tower complex, literally and figuratively.

Off the top of my head:


Obsid is a James Woods / Hades fast-talker salesman type character. He's quick, he's clever, he's charming. Every word out of his mouth sounds absolutely genuine, and genuinely passionate. He talks fast and thinks fast. He's got a bit of a quirk where he just cannot refuse a deal, or at least cannot refuse making one. Sometimes this is something like a business arrangement. Sometimes, if the other person has discovered one of Obsid's secrets (either the truth about the Minds, or his hatchlings), Obsid will make a deal with them, usually to the tune of "if you can make it to the door I won't burn you to ash". Course they never make it. Obsid cheats.
Dekon is senatorial, almost like that kindly old grandfather everyone wishes they had. He's regal, but earthy (ba-dum-tish!) and gives the impression that anyone can come to him for advice. Of course, he's kind of a sociopath. At best he sees people the way Mendel saw his pea pods: just another step in his endlessly complex breeding programs. He's often known to slide into long periods of reminiscing where he'll rattle on at length about various ancestors and family lineages and their accomplishments he played puppet-master and king-maker to. And when you're quite enraptured he'll gently explain why he thinks you oughta go talk to that nice girl over there by the lillies because she's got wonderful eyes he'd like to develop for next season...
Aqua really is a gossipy socialite. She dispenses wisdom and pure hearsay in equal measure however. She's a trickster like that, using information as a means of uplifting some and eroding others. While she is remarkably chatty, she's also the most personable of the Minds, directly engaging even the "little people" in casual conversation. She likes people, truly, and likes being around people. This tends to lead to a semi-official position among the populace: The Nightowl. This person is usually whomever Aqua wishes to talk with the most for a week or more. This person will undoubtedly be up all night for several days running, since Aqua craves human contact, and yet does not need sleep. For the Nightowl's health, the position is short lived.
Saala looks down on people :smalltongue:. She (I've forgotten their genders!) laughs at her own jokes (a rare thing), uses archaic phrases and words to show off (though sometimes she doesn't realize she's doing it), and is known to take a special interest in her city's brightest minds while regarding anyone below that level as cattle. Saala is also, oddly enough, an adrenaline-junky. If you're not a member of the elite, you can still reach that level of esteem in her eyes if you prove yourself in the sky-surfing sport she frequently watches. She sometimes yearns to take a mortal form and try out the sport herself.


As for the Freelancer Guild, I would go for a Sympathetic-Heroic-Thieves-Guild archetype. They could be totally in it for the money, but that's no reason to be an a******. Once you're in, you're a Brother/Sister. Any man in the Guard will have your back. It's like a Fraternal Rangers thing.

[Landis963]

Off the top of my head:


Obsid is a James Woods / Hades fast-talker salesman type character. He's quick, he's clever, he's charming. Every word out of his mouth sounds absolutely genuine, and genuinely passionate. He talks fast and thinks fast. He's got a bit of a quirk where he just cannot refuse a deal, or at least cannot refuse making one. Sometimes this is something like a business arrangement. Sometimes, if the other person has discovered one of Obsid's secrets (either the truth about the Minds, or his hatchlings), Obsid will make a deal with them, usually to the tune of "if you can make it to the door I won't burn you to ash". Course they never make it. Obsid cheats.


I can totally see this, but if it goes as far as "If you can make it to the door..." there's no real reason for him not to roast them as soon as they make a move. Unless he wants to let off some steam in a fight.




Dekon is senatorial, almost like that kindly old grandfather everyone wishes they had. He's regal, but earthy (ba-dum-tish!) and gives the impression that anyone can come to him for advice. Of course, he's kind of a sociopath. At best he sees people the way Mendel saw his pea pods: just another step in his endlessly complex breeding programs. He's often known to slide into long periods of reminiscing where he'll rattle on at length about various ancestors and family lineages and their accomplishments he played puppet-master and king-maker to. And when you're quite enraptured he'll gently explain why he thinks you oughta go talk to that nice girl over there by the lillies because she's got wonderful eyes he'd like to develop for next season...


Again, he's smart enough not to talk about why he makes the matches beyond "I'm sure it'll be a good match", but it does fit that he bears no more connection to the elves than a gardener who talks to their flowers.




Aqua really is a gossipy socialite. She dispenses wisdom and pure hearsay in equal measure however. She's a trickster like that, using information as a means of uplifting some and eroding others. While she is remarkably chatty, she's also the most personable of the Minds, directly engaging even the "little people" in casual conversation. She likes people, truly, and likes being around people. This tends to lead to a semi-official position among the populace: The Nightowl. This person is usually whomever Aqua wishes to talk with the most for a week or more. This person will undoubtedly be up all night for several days running, since Aqua craves human contact, and yet does not need sleep. For the Nightowl's health, the position is short lived.


This is also the reason why she started her wetware project down at the bottom of the lagoon, for someone to talk to while the Nightowl recuperates/is given a successor. This in turn points to why she doesn't use adrenalin in her setup; nightmare-racked dreamers aren't very good conversationalists.




Saala looks down on people :smalltongue:. She (I've forgotten their genders!) laughs at her own jokes (a rare thing), uses archaic phrases and words to show off (though sometimes she doesn't realize she's doing it), and is known to take a special interest in her city's brightest minds while regarding anyone below that level as cattle. Saala is also, oddly enough, an adrenaline-junky. If you're not a member of the elite, you can still reach that level of esteem in her eyes if you prove yourself in the sky-surfing sport she frequently watches. She sometimes yearns to take a mortal form and try out the sport herself.


You got all four genders right, although since they ascended it's been largely cosmetic. Also, entrance to the "elite" is largely meritocratic, although Saala has veto power. This also makes me think that there is an "Upper" and a "Lower" Saalarann, separated by a disc of streets and teleport stations known as the Axis. Upper Saalarann houses the companies, schools, and mansions of the elite, and Lower Saalarann houses everything else. Most businesses that cater to both straddle the Axis, leading to a strange setup of a restaurant with a front door in Upper Saalarann, overlooking a nightclub on the Axis, with a strip joint in the basement, whose front door is in Lower Saalarann, all run by the same people.


As for the Freelancer Guild, I would go for a Sympathetic-Heroic-Thieves-Guild archetype. They could be totally in it for the money, but that's no reason to be an a******. Once you're in, you're a Brother/Sister. Any man in the Guard will have your back. It's like a Fraternal Rangers thing.

Totally doable. The only loyalty is to the Guard (Not the Guild, that implies a - shall we say - less badass organization to my mind), and all others are encouraged to bend in the face of coin. As for uniform, I'm thinking having standard-issue black-and-stainless-steel armor, but having everyone mod, mix, and match pieces to personalize and customize, to promote individuality and to sidestep the within-the-box thinking that plagues so many other armies. For example, a mage character might wear a chestplate under a set of robes for extra durability, or a rogue character might eschew the standard-issue gauntlets for the ones he swiped from a goblin blacksmith, or a kiria might substitute the pauldrons for wing armor pieces (might be misremembering their relative wing-to-arm position). In all cases, helmets are a) optional and b) designed to act more like gas masks than anything else. (It is rumored that the original founders commissioned the designs from a goblin caster, but the unofficial transaction was never documented on the goblin side and the relevant documents on the Guard's side were never much more than a line in a budget, and of course the schematics themselves) The result is a highly versatile force that throws itself at a problem, deals with it, and often gets paid twice doing so. Thoughts?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I really like the idea of personalized armor for Freelancers. Since they're based in the central city, and thus are something of a balancing act between the Minds, I would advise a Black and White base uniform (Yin Yang). I can also see recruits from, say, Obsid adding a dragon crest to his helmet, or one of Dekonio's wearing a green and brown surcoat.

Question: How well-known is the Freelancers? And what do people think of them?

[Landis963]

I really like the idea of personalized armor for Freelancers. Since they're based in the central city, and thus are something of a balancing act between the Minds, I would advise a Black and White base uniform (Yin Yang). I can also see recruits from, say, Obsid adding a dragon crest to his helmet, or one of Dekonio's wearing a green and brown surcoat.

Sure, that's kind of what I was going for when I suggested stainless steel, although that would be more reflective than white normally is. I would suggest however, that new recruits are given one crest or one surcoat in one of four possibilities (keep things not as broken for the lvl 1s), and only as they increase in rank (I'll decide how to handle that later; currently thinking the party gets it when/if they talk to their commanding officer, who will travel with them until lv. 5 or so, and then return to Revien for further increases in rank.


Question: How well-known is the Freelancers? And what do people think of them?

They're very well-known, given that they are Revien's first line of defense, the second being a citizen militia, who have set traps and automatic barricades that the higher-ups of the Guard do not know about as a function of their contract. This is a safeguard against betrayal (They are mercs, after all, and despite the respect and gratitude they enjoy their true loyalties are always in the back of people's minds) and is further obfuscated by the fact that each district of Revien has its own cell, led by a trusted member of each community. Retirees from the guard are in high demand as emergency military advisers, another reason why the Freelancers command such respect. As for public opinion, people respect them as a line of defense, and are grateful to them in person, but they are viewed as a necessary evil at best.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Arathnos from Wyntonian's Patria thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193582) is going to be dropping by - sometime - to fluff up some criminal entities beyond the Moon Market.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Sure, that's kind of what I was going for when I suggested stainless steel, although that would be more reflective than white normally is. I would suggest however, that new recruits are given one crest or one surcoat in one of four possibilities (keep things not as broken for the lvl 1s), and only as they increase in rank (I'll decide how to handle that later; currently thinking the party gets it when/if they talk to their commanding officer, who will travel with them until lv. 5 or so, and then return to Revien for further increases in rank.

Or you could just put all the nicest bits in a higher price range than players can manage at low levels. The Freelancers may be a brotherhood of sorts, but it's not the kind that hands you coin if you're in a hole. They're more the angry older-brother-hood that makes you work for it. No handouts. Earn your way. Recruits have to earn even their first scrap of armor.


They're very well-known, given that they are Revien's first line of defense, the second being a citizen militia, who have set traps and automatic barricades that the higher-ups of the Guard do not know about as a function of their contract. This is a safeguard against betrayal (They are mercs, after all, and despite the respect and gratitude they enjoy their true loyalties are always in the back of people's minds) and is further obfuscated by the fact that each district of Revien has its own cell, led by a trusted member of each community. Retirees from the guard are in high demand as emergency military advisers, another reason why the Freelancers command such respect. As for public opinion, people respect them as a line of defense, and are grateful to them in person, but they are viewed as a necessary evil at best.

Ah, so more Grey Wardens than Night's Watch. :smallamused:


EDIT: Oh yeah, and Arathnos from Wyntonian's Patria thread (will link later) is going to be dropping by to fluff up some criminal entities beyond the Moon Market.

Awesome. More input is good input.

[Landis963]

So the server decided to eat my post. Here's take 2.


Or you could just put all the nicest bits in a higher price range than players can manage at low levels. The Freelancers may be a brotherhood of sorts, but it's not the kind that hands you coin if you're in a hole. They're more the angry older-brother-hood that makes you work for it. No handouts. Earn your way. Recruits have to earn even their first scrap of armor.

No handouts besides the paycheck, that is.


Ah, so more Grey Wardens than Night's Watch. :smallamused:

Yes, except there's no drinking a corrosive magical poison in order to attend. And oh, God, would you imagine a group of PCs in the Night's Watch?


Awesome. More input is good input.

That's what I thought too.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Yes, except there's no drinking a corrosive magical poison in order to attend. And oh, God, would you imagine a group of PCs in the Night's Watch?

I actually meant the guys from Game of Thrones who watch that big wall (I know that's not the name of the book but the HBO name is better). Although now that I think about it, a team of PCs policing Ankh-Morpork would be awesomesauce. Heck, when they die they just roleplay making a new character sheet with DEATH as their editor.

[Landis963]

I actually meant the guys from Game of Thrones who watch that big wall (I know that's not the name of the book but the HBO name is better). Although now that I think about it, a team of PCs policing Ankh-Morpork would be awesomesauce. Heck, when they die they just roleplay making a new character sheet with DEATH as their editor.

I was talking about the army stationed way up north in Westeros as well (Game Of Thrones is the name of the first book, chosen for the HBO series IIRC when they didn't know it was going to be a massive hit, while the book series is called A Song of Ice and Fire (I agree that GoT is pithier, but ASoIaF is more mysterious and more indicative of the series as a whole)), and mainly about the fact that if you drop a group of PCs in that group, they will wreak havoc and their GM will be forced by order of realistic reactions to TPK them. The Ankh-Morpork Watch is much more suited to a D&D group anyway (and they're the Night Watch on the Disc, not the Night's Watch).

Back on topic: I was mainly thinking about Tagon's (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2000-06-12) Toughs (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2000-06-18) when I first envisioned the Freelancer Guard, maybe with the competence of RvB's Freelancers. Note that any moral greyness would be reliant solely on the GM, and alignment is not really a factor on admission. (Nor is it, really, a factor in spellcasting like in Faerun or Eberron or Ravenloft (almost typed Innistrad there...:smallredface:), everyone has magic, none of it divinely-given, and what you think of the latest general election has nothing to do with what that chalk circle on the ground is going to do to your face. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstChaos.htm)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

They're very well-known, given that they are Revien's first line of defense, the second being a citizen militia, who have set traps and automatic barricades that the higher-ups of the Guard do not know about as a function of their contract. This is a safeguard against betrayal (They are mercs, after all, and despite the respect and gratitude they enjoy their true loyalties are always in the back of people's minds) and is further obfuscated by the fact that each district of Revien has its own cell, led by a trusted member of each community. Retirees from the guard are in high demand as emergency military advisers, another reason why the Freelancers command such respect. As for public opinion, people respect them as a line of defense, and are grateful to them in person, but they are viewed as a necessary evil at best.

Looking back at this, I feel like the Freelancers need to be involved in some historic conflict. Like if Alabas invaded at some point, and before the Minds could muster a response, Revien's city guardsmen and the local mercenary bands took to the walls and held out in a magnificent siege that lasted for days on end. When the Mind-Loyalists reinforced the city and ended the invasion, the survivors were commissioned as The Freelancers by the Minds to be a unifying armed force within their lands, to act as the first response to foreign aggression, and to lend aid to the local people when the Minds could not (such as when the task is beneath them). The reason local institutions dislike them is simply because they hold a lot of power over local affairs if called in, and no one likes their toes getting stepped on.

[Landis963]

That could work very well, especially if 1) it's before the Minds ascended (there's no reason they wouldn't curbstomp any invading army if they were). 2)the invaders were Alabasan, trying to reclaim the 4 magic nexi that the Minds stole, and 3) their defeat on Almantha directly led to their downfall as a nation. Maybe too many soldiers died, maybe too many resources went into the war, maybe a peasant revolt sprung up at home with several nexi getting smashed into shards.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

That could work very well, especially if 1) it's before the Minds ascended (there's no reason they wouldn't curbstomp any invading army if they were). 2)the invaders were Alabasan, trying to reclaim the 4 magic nexi that the Minds stole, and 3) their defeat on Almantha directly led to their downfall as a nation. Maybe too many soldiers died, maybe too many resources went into the war, maybe a peasant revolt sprung up at home with several nexi getting smashed into shards.

1) I thought that the Minds were physically restricted to a single location, so to me it didn't matter when the invasion happened as the Minds couldn't physically appear to fight. Pre-ascension sounds better though.

2) Yes, Alabas.

3) Or the Minds led a counterattack that utterly devastated Alabas and left it in ruins.

[Landis963]

1) I thought that the Minds were physically restricted to a single location, so to me it didn't matter when the invasion happened as the Minds couldn't physically appear to fight. Pre-ascension sounds better though.

Most have found workarounds to the "staying in one place" deal, for example Obsid has his robotic dragon (Also, in an emergency, a Mind can retreat into its nexus for greater immediate power, but essentially switching off anything magical it was controlling beforehand), but I think it works better when the Minds weren't gods yet as they can fight like a normal, non-godly humans.


2) Yes, Alabas.

They don't have much, why not? Although I think a peasant revolt should be part of it. The nobles, as mentioned, were arrogant. I don't think the words "insufficient resources" ever crossed their minds, and thus they were utterly taken aback when 1) they were defeated by the dishonorable theives that left them all those years ago and 2) their sources of power got smashed by angry peasants wielding disturbingly durable weapons and armor. (Courtesy of the newly-formed Freelancer Guard :smallwink:, although the nobility of Alabas didn't know that)


3) Or the Minds led a counterattack that utterly devastated Alabas and left it in ruins.

Seems like a plan of Arrusif's, and I know that Dekon, if not Saala, would try and talk him down. I think it works best if they did send an army back to Alabas, but only enough to aid an existing resistance, or to spark the creation of one. Only it got out of control and most of the remaining nexi that Alabas had were destroyed, causing the magic in the area to become nigh-unusable, leading to the state that Alabas is in.

EDIT: It strikes me that I've never really explained how the nexi work. Should that be the next post?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Seems like a plan of Arrusif's, and I know that Dekon, if not Saala, would try and talk him down. I think it works best if they did send an army back to Alabas, but only enough to aid an existing resistance, or to spark the creation of one. Only it got out of control and most of the remaining nexi that Alabas had were destroyed, causing the magic in the area to become nigh-unusable, leading to the state that Alabas is in.

Hmmm. A thought occurs: What if Arrusif spent time post-ascension/post-lichedom travelling Alabas. Perhaps he wreaked some sort of devastation alone there? Or he was searching for a way to re-empower the Nexi there, and potentially turn that back on the other Minds. Dekon would be spared, of course. He still regards his old friend well and might be loyal enough to him at least to secure Dekon's lands from devastation in a hypothetical Mind-War.


EDIT: It strikes me that I've never really explained how the nexi work. Should that be the next post?

The Nexi are a bit vague, yes. Alabas is also vaguely defined. I understand it was a corrupt Mageocracy at the time of the Minds' mortal lives, and that according to your idea for a Peasant Revolt I will assume it was also brutal and oppressive to the masses. Was it like Tevinter in the Dragon Age series? Or perhaps the Old Wizards from the Discworld, from before they got fat and smoked all day long, when the plural for Wizard was "War", and whole Orders got together to cast spells that left regions uninhabitable to this day?

[Landis963]

Hmmm. A thought occurs: What if Arrusif spent time post-ascension/post-lichedom travelling Alabas. Perhaps he wreaked some sort of devastation alone there? Or he was searching for a way to re-empower the Nexi there, and potentially turn that back on the other Minds. Dekon would be spared, of course. He still regards his old friend well and might be loyal enough to him at least to secure Dekon's lands from devastation in a hypothetical Mind-War.

I don't see why not. At least it gives him something to do between Obsid's ascension and when the players come onto the scene.


The Nexi are a bit vague, yes. Alabas is also vaguely defined. I understand it was a corrupt Mageocracy at the time of the Minds' mortal lives, and that according to your idea for a Peasant Revolt I will assume it was also brutal and oppressive to the masses. Was it like Tevinter in the Dragon Age series? Or perhaps the Old Wizards from the Discworld, from before they got fat and smoked all day long, when the plural for Wizard was "War", and whole Orders got together to cast spells that left regions uninhabitable to this day?

I kind of like the idea of borrowing from the Tevinter Imperium for this, although any slave trading would have to liberally apply anti-magic (remember, this is before the invention of sigils), with all the power drain that implies. Also, Tevinter was brought low by a demonic invasion, while Alabas was brought low by a simple armed revolt. As for the mechanics of the Nexi, I don't have the time to post up a full write-up of their workings, but I'll get to it in the next post.

[Landis963]

The Workings of Magic

The main thing to keep in mind is that the magic nexi that Alabas relied on and that now power the Minds are not a natural part of the world. They were created by an ancient sage who wanted them to be used for the benefit of mankind, and then capitalized on by people who wanted them for personal gain, as these things go.

Naturally, magic creates networks and leylines that follow the paths made by their elements. In this way, currents carry water magic, winds carry air magic, root networks carry earth magic, and lava flows carry fire magic (The current theory is that the heat created by these flows is the relevant magical catalyst). These leylines shift as the land changes.

The nexi screw with that. The nexus is a disc-shaped artifact, that when given a magical pulse of energy (any energy) begins to spin, then to rotate around one axis, then two, then more and more and more until it resembles a sphere spinning in all directions. As it does this, the leylines in the area attract toward it as light passes by a black hole, away from their sources in the physical world. Once a leyline begins to feed directly into the point where a nexus resides, the relevant type of magic begins to build until it is violently released. This is the "pulse" of magic that, before it was harnessed by the ascension and upkeep of the Minds, began to change the elves, the kiria, and the aventi into their modern forms. With the regime of the Minds, this pulse is greatly limited (the Minds need much of it to stay conscious, plus controlling their cities on a daily basis means that they use the grand majority of the power collected daily by their nexi), only enough to predispose those already living there toward the type of magic the nexus projects.

The artifact orbiting around the moon is, as mentioned, an Alabasan invention. It works in a different way than the nexi, which take magic parasitically and project it out before they explode. The satellite takes in solar energy from Therinos' sun, then projects it out as magic, like a colored mirror changing the light that bounces off of it.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Okay. I like this. Although it does make me think that a dry desert would logically be a magical dead zone. The Atacama Desert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama) has been virtually rain-free for 100k years, and there is so little water and/or wind or anything that even bacteria can't live there. You may recall this from an excellent Top Gear (http://forum.ih8mud.com/trails-events-expeditions/345621-bbc-top-gear-chile-bolivia-special.html) episode if you check BBC America at all. So there could be places in the world where magic just...doesn't work. No leylines at all. No wind. No water. No volcanism. No plantlife (or very very little).


The artifact orbiting around the moon is, as mentioned, an Alabasan invention. It works in a different way than the nexi, which take magic parasitically and project it out before they explode. The satellite takes in solar energy from Therinos' sun, then projects it out as magic, like a colored mirror changing the light that bounces off of it.

So, the Artificial Nexus orbiting the moon keeps magic flowing to Alabas? Or did it's using Solar power burn out the Magic in the users in Alabas. Since the Minds rebelled and used other Nexi, they never used the solar one, and so never burned out. Maybe Arrusif is trying to gain control of that one, and his undead state renders him uniquely able to use the Artificial Nexus without threat of burnout. Or the Solar Nexus itself was put up there, not by Alabas, but by the Minds, Arrusif specifically. The Solar Power can't be used by mortals, and so it basically screws with Non-Mind-Nexus derived magics. Anyone trying to work magic outside the Mind's sphere of influence can't do it anymore.

Just some thoughts.

[Landis963]

Okay. I like this. Although it does make me think that a dry desert would logically be a magical dead zone. The Atacama Desert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama) has been virtually rain-free for 100k years, and there is so little water and/or wind or anything that even bacteria can't live there. You may recall this from an excellent Top Gear (http://forum.ih8mud.com/trails-events-expeditions/345621-bbc-top-gear-chile-bolivia-special.html) episode if you check BBC America at all. So there could be places in the world where magic just...doesn't work. No leylines at all. No wind. No water. No volcanism. No plantlife (or very very little).

British TV's always great. That actually makes sense, although I think Alabas became a desert over time. Or maybe in some great catastrophe, triggered either by some Almanthan saboteur, an overzealous rebel, or a reckless member of the noble forces. Maybe... A supervolcanic eruption?


So, the Artificial Nexus orbiting the moon keeps magic flowing to Alabas? Or did it's using Solar power burn out the Magic in the users in Alabas. Since the Minds rebelled and used other Nexi, they never used the solar one, and so never burned out. Maybe Arrusif is trying to gain control of that one, and his undead state renders him uniquely able to use the Artificial Nexus without threat of burnout. Or the Solar Nexus itself was put up there, not by Alabas, but by the Minds, Arrusif specifically. The Solar Power can't be used by mortals, and so it basically screws with Non-Mind-Nexus derived magics. Anyone trying to work magic outside the Mind's sphere of influence can't do it anymore.

Just some thoughts.

The point of the Artificial Moon was to project energy to Alabas, yes. However, it quickly became apparent that far too much energy went into keeping it pointed at Alabas, and it fell into a stable orbit after they stopped meddling. It is, however, an invention of Alabas, specifically as an improvement on the original design.

I'll have to think a bit more on how solar-energy magic differs from normal magic, though.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

British TV's always great. That actually makes sense, although I think Alabas became a desert over time. Or maybe in some great catastrophe, triggered either by some Almanthan saboteur, an overzealous rebel, or a reckless member of the noble forces. Maybe... A supervolcanic eruption?

I'd go with an Almanthan saboteur, possibly Arrusif. He works with the barren, desert, magic-deficient imagery anyway.


I'll have to think a bit more on how solar-energy magic differs from normal magic, though.

I would assume that since the Sun is the source of life and energy, that it would have a powerful effect on leylines, and thus all magic. Solar power informs all magical energy to some degree. Actually channeling the stuff is impossible (unless we go the Arrusif route mentioned above) and is so powerful that anyone who has attempted it has simply burst into charcoal. Anyone who could channel solar magic would basically Nova everything in their path (literally!) and basically possess...you guessed it. :smallamused:

POWAH! UN! LIM! IT! ED! POWAAAAAAH!

[Landis963]

I'd go with an Almanthan saboteur, possibly Arrusif. He works with the barren, desert, magic-deficient imagery anyway.

It might also work well if Dekon realized, but remained quiet out of loyalty. Regardless, I think that if you talked to someone about it at the time, who the eruption was blamed on (and it would be blamed on someone; one of the very first magical systems the nobility placed on Alabas was a binding spell on the volcano that comprised most of their holdings, and even they weren't dumb enough to screw with it during peacetime. It wouldn't have erupted unless someone wanted it to) would change depending on who you talked to; A former noble would blame it on the upstart Almanthans or the ingrate serfs (Called nuli, nul is the singular, never given the honor of a proper noun), the Freelancers who remember it blame it on the stupid nobles or the desperate nuli, the nuli "blame" it on the daring of the Almanthan saviors or the stupidity of their masters.


I would assume that since the Sun is the source of life and energy, that it would have a powerful effect on leylines, and thus all magic. Solar power informs all magical energy to some degree. Actually channeling the stuff is impossible (unless we go the Arrusif route mentioned above) and is so powerful that anyone who has attempted it has simply burst into charcoal. Anyone who could channel solar magic would basically Nova everything in their path (literally!) and basically possess...you guessed it. :smallamused:

POWAH! UN! LIM! IT! ED! POWAAAAAAH!

Raw solar magic energy, therefore, has to be so powerful that channeling the smallest amount of power would destroy a caster utterly, and it needs to be filtered through the world so that casters can cast without blowing up. So what stops that happening to Arrusif, our big bad? I don't know. The problem is, just because he's undead doesn't stop him from burning. In fact, he might be more susceptible to fire than he ever was in life (remember that he is essentially puppeteering his own skeleton with vines provided by Dekon) and thus he needs to channel much less of his native fire magic, as well as a general nerf. Another reason he went off the deep end. My guess is, he went to Alabas to try and find the tomes and scrolls he buried in the war, in order to channel this power. The only problem is why he would try to channel the sun's power in the first place. And don't say "POWAH! UNLIMITED! POWAH!" again, please, as he knows firsthand what an excess of power can do to a group. He ran from them with three others and a fleet of followers, remember.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Raw solar magic energy, therefore, has to be so powerful that channeling the smallest amount of power would destroy a caster utterly, and it needs to be filtered through the world so that casters can cast without blowing up. So what stops that happening to Arrusif, our big bad? I don't know. The problem is, just because he's undead doesn't stop him from burning. In fact, he might be more susceptible to fire than he ever was in life (remember that he is essentially puppeteering his own skeleton with vines provided by Dekon) and thus he needs to channel much less of his native fire magic, as well as a general nerf. Another reason he went off the deep end. My guess is, he went to Alabas to try and find the tomes and scrolls he buried in the war, in order to channel this power. The only problem is why he would try to channel the sun's power in the first place.

The guy who was probably almost, if not the, most powerful Fire Mage of his time, never thought about channeling the Ultimate Flame of them all? If he did find a means of channeling the raw, unfiltered power of the sun, who's to say how powerful he'd become. If the sun's power is what fuels magic, then what happens when someone takes control of the source of that power? How could he not try it?

If Arrusif could figure out a way to use the Sun's undiluted power, he would be more powerful than all the Minds together. If you think about it, this could be the ultimate end-goal for a high-level party in this setting. Say what you will about the Minds, but there is no upside to Arrusif gaining Godhood at this point, not after centuries of letting bitterness, betrayal, pride and jealousy fester inside of him. As Sir Pratchett once said (paraphrasing), "This was not DEATH, but DEATH with all the passion, pettiness and cruelty of human experience".

As for the not vaporizing himself thing: Perhaps there is a way to draw very small amounts of Solar energy into a caster, but it's so dangerous and so minute that no one bothered after the first few attempts blew up in their faces. Arrusif might be trying to figure out a ritual of some sort that would replicate this on a massive scale, but the preparation will take a very long time (centuries even), and he needs to gather a lot of powerful allies/chumps to sacrifice to power the protective charms that'll keep him from frying during the ritual. Solar Power could be thought of as the Wish Spell, but far more dangerous to even attempt. Thoughts?


And don't say "POWAH! UNLIMITED! POWAH!" again, please, as he knows firsthand what an excess of power can do to a group. He ran from them with three others and a fleet of followers, remember.

The Minds ran away from the ULTIMATE POWAH guys, sure. But he did so with his allies to become those ULTIMATE POWAH guys himself.

[Landis963]

The guy who was probably almost, if not the, most powerful Fire Mage of his time, never thought about channeling the Ultimate Flame of them all? If he did find a means of channeling the raw, unfiltered power of the sun, who's to say how powerful he'd become. If the sun's power is what fuels magic, then what happens when someone takes control of the source of that power? How could he not try it?

I see your point. I'm still not seeing much of a motivation beyond "UNLIMITED POWAH!" :smalleek: Unless he wanted to kill the Minds for their betrayal, and the ritual he's found conveniently needs to consume four beings and a plural number of nexi.


If Arrusif could figure out a way to use the Sun's undiluted power, he would be more powerful than all the Minds together. If you think about it, this could be the ultimate end-goal for a high-level party in this setting. Say what you will about the Minds, but there is no upside to Arrusif gaining Godhood at this point, not after centuries of letting bitterness, betrayal, pride and jealousy fester inside of him. As Sir Pratchett once said (paraphrasing), "This was not DEATH, but DEATH with all the passion, pettiness and cruelty of human experience".

It is therefore fitting that the party finds him during the ritual, thus forcing him to delay them by some means. Like the final level of Skyward Sword, but with the possibility of stopping him.


As for the not vaporizing himself thing: Perhaps there is a way to draw very small amounts of Solar energy into a caster, but it's so dangerous and so minute that no one bothered after the first few attempts blew up in their faces. Arrusif might be trying to figure out a ritual of some sort that would replicate this on a massive scale, but the preparation will take a very long time (centuries even), and he needs to gather a lot of powerful allies/chumps to sacrifice to power the protective charms that'll keep him from frying during the ritual. Solar Power could be thought of as the Wish Spell, but far more dangerous to even attempt. Thoughts?

The problem is (and Arrusif would know this) that if he takes any solar magic into himself, pop goes the lich. Which leads to workarounds, which leads to preparing the ritual.


The Minds ran away from the ULTIMATE POWAH guys, sure. But he did so with his allies to become those ULTIMATE POWAH guys himself.

That seems a bit more cliche than I'd like for my first real primary villain. See also: the rudimentary motivation I have for him at the beginning of the post.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I see your point. I'm still not seeing much of a motivation beyond "UNLIMITED POWAH!" :smalleek: Unless he wanted to kill the Minds for their betrayal, and the ritual he's found conveniently needs to consume four beings and a plural number of nexi.

He could also be doing it FOR (Magic!)SCIENCE! Bragging rights, essentially. The Ultimate Power is nice, but the fact that he could prove to the other Minds that he doesn't need them, that he is the superior one, is worth his weight in gold.


It is therefore fitting that the party finds him during the ritual, thus forcing him to delay them by some means. Like the final level of Skyward Sword, but with the possibility of stopping him.

I wouldn't know, since the last Zelda I played nearest to completion was Wind Waker. But yeah, them reaching him as the ritual gets underway would end up with a seriously awesome battle.


The problem is (and Arrusif would know this) that if he takes any solar magic into himself, pop goes the lich. Which leads to workarounds, which leads to preparing the ritual.

I think Arrusif should be a master crafter. He can't channel the Sun's power alone, and he has trouble even using his native fire magic. The best option would be for him to spend a few decades whipping up some Artifact-level items to allow him to function as a spellcaster. Like "Arrusif's Firebrand" which fires Maximized Fireballs, or the "Torchlight Amulet", which absorbs all fire magic that gets near him (read: SR to Fire).

When it comes to the Ritual, there are two ideas:
Arrusif needs to sacrifice various people and Nexi in order to summon Sun Magic, and he needs to craft powerful artifacts (the ingredients needed require him to travel a lot) to protect him from blowing up.
Or the Ritual is used to reconstitute the Alabasan Nexi, which Arrusif now knows how to control in the same way the Minds do theirs. In that case, the Artifacts must be used to enact the ritual itself.


That seems a bit more cliche than I'd like for my first real primary villain. See also: the rudimentary motivation I have for him at the beginning of the post.

From how you originally presented the Minds, it felt like they left Alabas in order to take control of some Nexi and become Gods. Arrusif got screwed out of this deal, and now seeks to do the same to his old comrades. Played just right, I can see the Players having a lot of sympathy for the lich.

[Landis963]

He could also be doing it FOR (Magic!)SCIENCE! Bragging rights, essentially. The Ultimate Power is nice, but the fact that he could prove to the other Minds that he doesn't need them, that he is the superior one, is worth his weight in gold.

I like that element, actually.


I wouldn't know, since the last Zelda I played nearest to completion was Wind Waker. But yeah, them reaching him as the ritual gets underway would end up with a seriously awesome battle.

No spoilers: the big bad starts a ritual at the bottom of this winding ramp, and he sends cannon fodder at you while you race down the ramp. Lengthy boss battle ensues when you get down there.


I think Arrusif should be a master crafter. He can't channel the Sun's power alone, and he has trouble even using his native fire magic. The best option would be for him to spend a few decades whipping up some Artifact-level items to allow him to function as a spellcaster. Like "Arrusif's Firebrand" which fires Maximized Fireballs, or the "Torchlight Amulet", which absorbs all fire magic that gets near him (read: SR to Fire).

Sounds about right. In fact, why don't we have it such that the sigils were Arrusif's idea, and Dekon leaked them to that artist.


When it comes to the Ritual, there are two ideas:
Arrusif needs to sacrifice various people and Nexi in order to summon Sun Magic, and he needs to craft powerful artifacts (the ingredients needed require him to travel a lot) to protect him from blowing up.
Or the Ritual is used to reconstitute the Alabasan Nexi, which Arrusif now knows how to control in the same way the Minds do theirs. In that case, the Artifacts must be used to enact the ritual itself.

With any amount of power, it's only a matter of storing it in a container that won't instantly explode/drain it away instantly. Mages, of any state of being, are insufficient for solar magic energy, as mentioned. The nexi would, as a safety feature, either explode it away through the pulse or just explode. Thus, the ritual is about storing and harnessing the power. Maybe the culmination of the Act 2 plan is about Arrusif fixing the artificial moon so that it stores power instead of releasing it out willy-nilly. This would be in preparation for the ritual at the climax of Act 3, in which the sun and both moons line up with the capital (another fruit of Arrusif's searching in the ruins of Alabas). The Day of Hollow Moon, so called because the glowing of the artificial nexus imparts the (visual) illusion of the sun's light shining through the moon, would be the signal for Arrusif to let forth all the energy into his setup in some suitably climactic location (I'm thinking the roof of the Noreun), letting it charge up.


From how you originally presented the Minds, it felt like they left Alabas in order to take control of some Nexi and become Gods. Arrusif got screwed out of this deal, and now seeks to do the same to his old comrades. Played just right, I can see the Players having a lot of sympathy for the lich.

It's true. They did think up the idea of godhood almost as soon as Almantha came into sight. They did steal the original 4 nexi as sort of a "screw-you" to their peers, but I think a big part of the "screw you" was more that the Alabasan nobility squandered the resources they had on terrorizing their nuli or playing games of succession. More of a "see what we can do with a fraction of the power you used". Also, Arrusif made the sacrifice to not become a god willingly, and what really got him is that he was essentially erased from the history books, no tragic deaths before the day of apotheosis, no mention of Arrusif the master fire mage and illusionist, no nothing.

To make this a bit more plausible (and, I think, more compelling) why don't we have it that Arrusif didn't know for certain that Dekon would complete the lichification process? He knew about the spell to bring his mind back (he wrote it himself), but he didn't know if Dekon would a) cast it or b) be able to prepare and perfect the vines puppeteering his body. Well, he didn't know per se, but he trusted Dekon, who came through 5 years later. The ensuing culture shock, plus the fact that he is the only one of the founding four who was completely forgotten, is grounds enough for revenge, I think.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

With any amount of power, it's only a matter of storing it in a container that won't instantly explode/drain it away instantly. Mages, of any state of being, are insufficient for solar magic energy, as mentioned. The nexi would, as a safety feature, either explode it away through the pulse or just explode. Thus, the ritual is about storing and harnessing the power. Maybe the culmination of the Act 2 plan is about Arrusif fixing the artificial moon so that it stores power instead of releasing it out willy-nilly. This would be in preparation for the ritual at the climax of Act 3, in which the sun and both moons line up with the capital (another fruit of Arrusif's searching in the ruins of Alabas). The Day of Hollow Moon, so called because the glowing of the artificial nexus imparts the (visual) illusion of the sun's light shining through the moon, would be the signal for Arrusif to let forth all the energy into his setup in some suitably climactic location (I'm thinking the roof of the Noreun), letting it charge up.

Sounds suitably epic. I feel like the Artificial moon needs a name. How about Larberec, or Xetroc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_cortex)?


It's true. They did think up the idea of godhood almost as soon as Almantha came into sight...Also, Arrusif made the sacrifice to not become a god willingly, and what really got him is that he was essentially erased from the history books, no tragic deaths before the day of apotheosis, no mention of Arrusif the master fire mage and illusionist, no nothing.

To make this a bit more plausible (and, I think, more compelling) why don't we have it that Arrusif didn't know for certain that Dekon would complete the lichification process? He knew about the spell to bring his mind back (he wrote it himself), but he didn't know if Dekon would a) cast it or b) be able to prepare and perfect the vines puppeteering his body. Well, he didn't know per se, but he trusted Dekon, who came through 5 years later.

I like this. It shows how much Dekon and Arrusif cared for each other that Arrusif could trust his friend with this sort of task. Although it also tells me that Dekon was okay with screwing his friend's legacy over. Also also, 5 years? I find it difficult to believe that in only 5 years everyone forgot Arrusif's name. What about all the people who were still alive 5 years previous? Short attention spans? It might be a better idea to delay Dekon's successful resurrection of his friend to 50 years at a bare minimum. I'd recommend closer to 100 years, or even more if Obsid convinced Dekon to hold off until Arrusif's name had been totally destroyed.

Also, besides being allowed to live a bit longer (plus the lichification), what did Arrusif get out of lichdom? Did he really expect for Obsid to take his place in the Minds and keep using the fire mage's name? Did he believe Dekon could restore his flesh so he could go out in the daylight? I think it would be good to have Arrusif's idea of The Plan, just to see the true extent of how divorced his expectations were from what ultimately happened to him.

[Landis963]

Sounds suitably epic. I feel like the Artificial moon needs a name. How about Larberec, or Xetroc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_cortex)?

:smallyuk: Sorry, no. Naming things after backwards brain parts can only go so far. (And I'm sorry, but Xetroc is a terrible name for anything)


I like this. It shows how much Dekon and Arrusif cared for each other that Arrusif could trust his friend with this sort of task. Although it also tells me that Dekon was okay with screwing his friend's legacy over. Also also, 5 years? I find it difficult to believe that in only 5 years everyone forgot Arrusif's name. What about all the people who were still alive 5 years previous? Short attention spans? It might be a better idea to delay Dekon's successful resurrection of his friend to 50 years at a bare minimum. I'd recommend closer to 100 years, or even more if Obsid convinced Dekon to hold off until Arrusif's name had been totally destroyed.

Maybe 5 years is a little short-term for everyone to forget about him. 50 years sounds a little better (although that's only 2.5 generations, in a world without the internet...:smallannoyed: I'll have to think about it a bit more). As for the delay; it could be strong-arming from Obsid, sure. However, I'm not sure how Dekon would allow Obsid to find out. We know what he did to Sharenia when she found out about the whole deal, and I very much doubt that Dekon would not just kill any spy who got close. However, that time could easily be spent trying to make the nomon (first to placate Obsid, and second to create a race of casters that would be loyal to their maker) and trying to perfect the system of vines that would replace Arrusif's muscles, tendons, etc. Remember that since ascension, Dekon can't cast fire spells, and earth spells can't call back a soul from the grave. Also, once the deed was done and Arrusif returned to unlife, there would need to be some rehabilitation to not breathing, talking manually instead of leaving it to some subconscious function, perfecting motion and spellcasting, etc.


Also, besides being allowed to live a bit longer (plus the lichification), what did Arrusif get out of lichdom? Did he really expect for Obsid to take his place in the Minds and keep using the fire mage's name? Did he believe Dekon could restore his flesh so he could go out in the daylight? I think it would be good to have Arrusif's idea of The Plan, just to see the true extent of how divorced his expectations were from what ultimately happened to him.

He expected Obsid to become the Mind in his stead, yes, but not that his stature as one of the founding four would be erased. As for "going out in daylight" he could cast illusion spells (Silent Image falls under fire, remember) to hide the bone and plant matter, but couldn't hide the reedy timbre his voice got from the procedure. I think we've introduced a lot of plot holes into "The Plan" per se, not least of which being "Why the hell would Arrusif agree to this in the first place?"

[Ninjadeadbeard]

:smallyuk: Sorry, no. Naming things after backwards brain parts can only go so far. (And I'm sorry, but Xetroc is a terrible name for anything)

I thought so, but I just thought I'd point it out. :smallsmile:


Maybe 5 years is a little short-term for everyone to forget about him. 50 years sounds a little better (although that's only 2.5 generations, in a world without the internet...:smallannoyed: I'll have to think about it a bit more).

The only problem is that people talk about important stuff among themselves, even peasants. People just don't forget the name of their civilization's founder. Perhaps Obsid convinced people that he was Arrusif but explained that he took the Dragon's name to honor his old friend, like a Papal name. Then after a few centuries of slowly editing the books, he just stopped mentioning it, and people didn't have the written evidence to prove Obsid wasn't the name of the founder. Dekon might be the only one who still has the truth in written form, though he obviously keeps it well hidden.


As for the delay; it could be strong-arming from Obsid, sure. However, I'm not sure how Dekon would allow Obsid to find out. We know what he did to Sharenia when she found out about the whole deal, and I very much doubt that Dekon would not just kill any spy who got close. However, that time could easily be spent trying to make the nomon (first to placate Obsid, and second to create a race of casters that would be loyal to their maker) and trying to perfect the system of vines that would replace Arrusif's muscles, tendons, etc. Remember that since ascension, Dekon can't cast fire spells, and earth spells can't call back a soul from the grave. Also, once the deed was done and Arrusif returned to unlife, there would need to be some rehabilitation to not breathing, talking manually instead of leaving it to some subconscious function, perfecting motion and spellcasting, etc.

So Dekon needed Obsid's Fire Magic in order to complete the resurrection. Means that Obsid could dictate when Arrusif came back, to a certain extent. Obviously he couldn't delay it forever, or risk war with Dekon, so the delay was a combination of Dekon researching and Obsid dragon:smalltongue: his feet. I'd like to think that when Arrusif came back, he used a "Christopher Lee" illusion to walk around. Explains the voice.


I think we've introduced a lot of plot holes into "The Plan" per se, not least of which being "Why the hell would Arrusif agree to this in the first place?"

I think any plot holes in The Plan are easily explained. Arrusif might have trusted the dragon too much, or perhaps he always had a naive streak? Maybe he went with the plan because he didn't think he could take a frelling dragon mano e mano. I don't know why he didn't ask for the other Minds to kill him, but it probably has to do with preserving the peace or something (maybe Arrusif was a pacifist in life?).

[Landis963]

The only problem is that people talk about important stuff among themselves, even peasants. People just don't forget the name of their civilization's founder. Perhaps Obsid convinced people that he was Arrusif but explained that he took the Dragon's name to honor his old friend, like a Papal name. Then after a few centuries of slowly editing the books, he just stopped mentioning it, and people didn't have the written evidence to prove Obsid wasn't the name of the founder. Dekon might be the only one who still has the truth in written form, though he obviously keeps it well hidden.

...That could work. I'm still unconvinced someone wouldn't smell a rat about the whole business, especially since Arrusif know Obsid for all of a day before making the mysterious accord that saved his quarter of the expats.


So Dekon needed Obsid's Fire Magic in order to complete the resurrection. Means that Obsid could dictate when Arrusif came back, to a certain extent. Obviously he couldn't delay it forever, or risk war with Dekon, so the delay was a combination of Dekon researching and Obsid dragon:smalltongue: his feet. I'd like to think that when Arrusif came back, he used a "Christopher Lee" illusion to walk around. Explains the voice.

He needed a fire mage a) competent enough to cast such a spell b) that would keep their mouth shut about the whole business. That's why he was so keen on giving magic to a species ostensibly supposed to be not much more than lab assistants. Otherwise, he would have had to rely on Obsid to cast the spell to bring his friend back.


I think any plot holes in The Plan are easily explained. Arrusif might have trusted the dragon too much, or perhaps he always had a naive streak? Maybe he went with the plan because he didn't think he could take a frelling dragon mano e mano. I don't know why he didn't ask for the other Minds to kill him, but it probably has to do with preserving the peace or something (maybe Arrusif was a pacifist in life?).

Most likely "couldn't take on a dragon mano e mano - and avoid unnecessary casualties". Unless you meant Obsid to be "him" in that sentence, in which case I say that this was while Dekon and Arrusif were essentially alone (with their followers, but I digress). And again point to the "unnecessary casualties" line. By the time Aqua and Saala reconnected with them, it was too late and most of Arrusif's followers were firmly ensconced exactly where Obsid wanted them. (I'm thinking that the only dumb decisions Obsid makes are when he's become stressed and paranoid about hiding his eggs, which means he's very effective when he's not distracted, which doesn't happen easily).

:smallsigh: I still need to write up what exactly the Plan was, because I have this nagging feeling that there's something that's wrong with it. Don't ask me what it is. At the very least, it implies a bit of an Idiot Ball sticking to Arrusif, and there may be more flaws hiding under the surface. Ah well. I'll write it up next post.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

At the very least, it implies a bit of an Idiot Ball sticking to Arrusif, and there may be more flaws hiding under the surface. Ah well. I'll write it up next post.

It's not an idiot ball if he honestly had no choice. "Gimme your spot, or your civilization is charcoal", is a pretty decent threat if you're an Ancient Red Dragon. Arrusif was kinda noble for doing what he did.

[Landis963]

OK, take three. Don't fail me now, server.


It's not an idiot ball if he honestly had no choice. "Gimme your spot, or your civilization is charcoal", is a pretty decent threat if you're an Ancient Red Dragon. Arrusif was kinda noble for doing what he did.

The switch was Arrusif's idea, and to be fair he didn't have much choice (His spot as Mind was his only real bargaining chip, and Arrusif knew that any other thing he could give would only result in slavery or crispy annihilation (Or slavery ending in crispy annihilation, for that matter). Thus Arrusif began to plot the downfall of Obsid. Plan A was much more direct than the roundabout Lich conversion plan, as a matter of fact it was the "Why don't we just kill him" plan. After several things went wrong (the first being "oh s**t he heard us coming" and devolving in a hilarious, Aeon-Fluxish fashion (the cartoon, not the movie w/ Charlize Theron) from there), Obsid was holding court a few hours later, gloating that intruders were like "dinner and a show" for him.

Plan L (for Lich) was when Arrusif was getting desperate; no plan to stab, poison, or otherwise kill Obsid had panned out, the day of ascension was approaching (it had to be then; there was a Day of Hollow Moon approaching in Revien, which meant that it would be bathed in power for a day, all of which would go into the ascension ritual, and too much energy had already been expended to let the opportunity slip away). Saala, once she learned of Arrusif's deal, refused to allow him to go back on the deal, not least because if he didn't, that's an already ancient dragon ready and willing to wreak havoc when all four of them would be at their weakest (all four would ascend into their nexi at the same moment, and wouldn't sense much beyond their nexi until they were returned to their cities and could begin to hook into the ley of their lands (:smalltongue: nyar har)). Also, not only would the newly minted Mind of Obsid be able to sense an attacker as he struck, it would also be dishonorable (something intensely grating to a highly lawful person). Saala was sorry for Arrusif's predicament, but there wasn't much she could let him do and still remain true to herself. She left the group in tears, returning to work on the flying city that would house her Mind and her people. Arrusif then met with Dekon and Aqua (both of whom were willing to help him and were shocked at Saala's abandonment), and this last chance at a long-term plan took shape. Arrusif, once he had taken a poison to make it appear as though he died in his sleep (this was part of the mind switch gambit that would put Obsid on the throne), would be carried to Dekonio in state, where Dekon would begin work on the vine-muscles Arrusif would use. Aqua would start work on memory systems so that Arrusif would have something other than short-term memory loss (this eventually led to her wetware project at the bottom of the lake). This necessity was found by Arrusif's own necromantic experiments, when he found that when dead souls return, they remember everything they remembered in life, but constantly forgot what they learned after death. These experiments also led to the ritual that would bring him back and encase him in his own remains. Dekon later added the controls for the vine-muscles, and Aqua keyed the incoming soul to a phylactery (a tank of water oft-mistaken for a fish tank; to complete the illusion Arrusif bought some beaconfish (a glowing jelly-like invertebrate often found attached to rocks by a single tentacle) and stuck them in there) Saala, in an attempt to make amends, edited the ritual so that the disparate elements worked as a cohesive whole.

The day arrived, Arrusif took the poison, his body was puppeteered by Aqua into a carriage that took him to Revien, into the chamber reserved for their ascension (Obsid had flown there by night, and had been hooked into the system while the other Minds arrived), and then laid to rest by Dekon beneath the ascension floor. The time arrived, the power flowed into them, preserving and preparing their consciousnesses for installation into the nexi, and the deed was done. Chosen attendants (who had been prepared for most of their lives for the honor of protecting and escorting the nascent gods to their thrones to unlock their full potential) entered and packaged up the nexi. Then they gathered up royal carriages of their elements (Obsid's attendant rode home on a fireball, Saala's used Wind Walk, etc.) and escorted the Minds to their homes, and facilitated their installation.

At this point, Dekon got to work. He grew a single root all the way back out to Revien, where it wrapped around Arrusif's coffin. This root then began to recoil beneath Dekonio, pulling the coffin (in Revien) slowly along with it. Aqua held her breath and tried to distract Obsid whenever she suspected he might be nearing the truth (She needn't have bothered - Obsid thought that Arrusif was out of the picture, having seen his dead body enter the ascension chamber then fall down dead). Meanwhile, Dekon did some distraction of his own - verbal meddling, some slight reworking of the weave of his branches, not enough to interfere with the steady progress of the coffin towards the Dekonian forest, mainly for the benefit of those already living in Dekonio. Once the coffin was under the tree and safe, he began the work in earnest. Dekon had already tried enlisting Obsid's help in casting the spell, but he had proven unresponsive. Mainly because he wasn't a complete idiot - Obsid bore Arrusif no love, and all the Minds knew Arrusif had tried to kill Obsid in the past. They couldn't trust the fire mages (can't have the risk of a well-meaning assistant blabbing it by mistake, and besides the newly-formed Ominak Industries sold smart security systems as well as constructs), and so Dekon decided to hide the creation of a magic-using race within the creation of a gift to Obsid, to buy his good will. This led to the experiments with creating life, and the eventual creation of the goblins (Dekon's aim) and the nomon (Dekon's published aim). Once the process was perfected and the goblins willing to cast the spell to bring Arrusif's soul back, Dekon had everything he needed.

:smallsigh: Wow this took a long time to get out. I'll put Obsid's gambit in the next post, then Arrusif's reaction, leading up to the present.

[Landis963]

Meanwhile, Obsid put a plan in place to supplant Arrusif in the history of the land. (He found it amusing, if not strictly necessary in terms of consolidation of power. Besides, it was the logical step after taking Arrusif's place in every other respect) His very first action as Mind was to publicly proclaim that his name was now Obsid, "In honor of the dragon who gave us our home." If anyone smelled a rat about that, no one felt they could prove it. Step two was slowly editing the books. Arrusif's name was wiped out wherever they could find it and replaced with Obsid's, and the dragon in the tale of Obsidia's founding was rendered nameless. Anyone with evidence of the change was shouted down, burglarized then shouted down, or silenced. The result was a city that enjoyed prosperity (Ominak Industries was making leaps and bounds in the field of robotics, to the benefit of everyone in the city) but wouldn't talk about the truth of their Mind. The taboo in turn unintentionally suppressed the information outside of Obsidia as well. (as far as Almantha at large is concerned, however, Arrusif ascended to Mind-ness, took Obsid's name out of gratitude for the departed owner of the Obsidian cavern, then began working on constructs. They don't know the entire truth of the edits.)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Wow. You know what I really like about this? The Minds look ingenious and suspiciously human (emotionally speaking). On the one hand, these guys put together plans that had layers within layers within more layers. And on the other, they could be spiteful and petty. I'm starting to see Salaa as a sort of V:vaarsuvius: analog. Highly intellectual, with a touch of preachiness when someone they know goofs up. The alignment's different, but I still get the feeling.

You made the Minds sound pretty darn smart and endearing at the same time. Can't wait for the next bit!

[Landis963]

Wow. You know what I really like about this? The Minds look ingenious and suspiciously human (emotionally speaking). On the one hand, these guys put together plans that had layers within layers within more layers. And on the other, they could be spiteful and petty. I'm starting to see Salaa as a sort of V:vaarsuvius: analog. Highly intellectual, with a touch of preachiness when someone they know goofs up. The alignment's different, but I still get the feeling.

You made the Minds sound pretty darn smart and endearing at the same time. Can't wait for the next bit!

It helps that 3/5 of these players are supposed to be major villains, and I dislike stupid major villains. they imply stupid major protagonists, which in turn implies the idiot plot, which I despise in most cases (Dr. Strangelove being a notable exception).

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Meanwhile, Obsid put a plan in place to supplant Arrusif in the history of the land. (He found it amusing, if not strictly necessary in terms of consolidation of power. Besides, it was the logical step after taking Arrusif's place in every other respect) His very first action as Mind was to publicly proclaim that his name was now Obsid, "In honor of the dragon who gave us our home." If anyone smelled a rat about that, no one felt they could prove it. Step two was slowly editing the books. Arrusif's name was wiped out wherever they could find it and replaced with Obsid's, and the dragon in the tale of Obsidia's founding was rendered nameless. Anyone with evidence of the change was shouted down, burglarized then shouted down, or silenced. The result was a city that enjoyed prosperity (Ominak Industries was making leaps and bounds in the field of robotics, to the benefit of everyone in the city) but wouldn't talk about the truth of their Mind. The taboo in turn unintentionally suppressed the information outside of Obsidia as well. (as far as Almantha at large is concerned, however, Arrusif ascended to Mind-ness, took Obsid's name out of gratitude for the departed owner of the Obsidian cavern, then began working on constructs. They don't know the entire truth of the edits.)

Sounds good, sounds plausible. If anything it leaves a good chance for passing PCs to meet up with someone willing to break the silence...maybe Arrusif's minions (surely he's got a few people who remember the truth and serve him as the Deposed Mind) wage a silent shadow war against Obsid's machinations. Obsidia could be filled to the brim with espionage and counter-espionage awesomeness.

[Landis963]

So I've been having a bit of trouble with getting Arrusif to blow up and walk away. When I think about what he woke up to, I'm not sure the shock of Obsid suppressing his name would be sufficient to get him to became suitably incensed that he jumps straight to "show them, show them all". There needs to be some severe misunderstanding for that sort of drastic measure to occur, which means that either all the non-draconic Minds lost a few brain cells-worth of mental processes during the war with Alabas and started keeping secrets, or something was physically keeping them from communicating. Maybe the Minds kicked him out after he blew up the Alabasan supervolcano, maybe something else happened. That would work, but it carries with it a whole slew of questions. Did they leave him behind in Alabas? How? How did they get the orders to leave him behind across the ocean to Alabas? Did he come back home and then they shipped him back? How'd they do that? If not those, then what did they do?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

So I've been having a bit of trouble with getting Arrusif to blow up and walk away.

Well. Arrusif wakes up. He's a bit groggy, but alive. Then he realizes he's a shambling horror. He was ready for that, but the reality of the situation is still pretty rough to accept. But still, he's alive. He's got his power, he's got a couple of good friends, at least one of whom was willing to resurrect him and build an entire race of fire mages to help him out. And he's got his reputation. He's remembered as one of the founders of a civilization, worshiped at least in name as a god...


Oh. :smalleek: Oh you bastard :smallfurious: . My name has been erased and replaced with the person/reptile who ruined my life!? That...that's not acceptable. But I'll let it pass for now. I've still got friends, the Minds. They'll...

They won't help me. Hell, Salaa and Aqua don't want anything more to do with me. Salaa calls me a "destabilizing element". Aqua isn't interested in an Inter-Mind War by picking a fight with Obsid. And the way they look at me...like I was some troll swimming in filth. I'm an uncomfortable reminder of their mortal lives. But surely, Dekon...

"Take the long view"? Et tu, Dekon? You want to play in your garden. Of course you do. You'd all rather I went away. Well, that's what I'll do. I have no life to lose. I shall march on Obsid alone, if I must.

My...my own power burns! How...? My body, these vines, cannot withstand fire magic. But that's all I have left! Why? Damn you! Damn you, you all planned this! Glutting yourselves on magical power and laughing at my back!

You think you've won, Obsid? You vile reptile! You haven't won. Even a Dragon must take care he doesn't burn. And...and I know exactly what can do it. You'll see.

You'll all see! You will all watch, helpless! as I ascend beyond your pitiful perceptions and frailties. You have forgotten the powers we once contested, and you have forgotten the daring of Alabas.

You will all see...

I think he's got some pretty good reasons. :smallcool:

[Landis963]

First off, it's "Saala.". The double a comes first. Second, I love the monologue. It neatly encapsulates Arrusif's view of the events. However, this should in fact be Arrusif's view, and not necessarily the reality. Aqua, for example, would hardly want "nothing to do with [him]," although she would shy away from an Inter-Mind war. (She cites the fact that such a war would blow the lid off the switch, causing widespread mistrust of the Minds at best and revolt at worst, not to mention that Obsid has Arrusif's people (and the nomon) held basically hostage, which Arrusif would ignore). Third, I'm not sure how Dekon wouldn't see Arrusif being driven to use the unadulterated power of the sun, although he may see it as impossible. Fourth, the whole point of the rehabilitation was to avoid the "shambling horror"-ness of lichdom.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

First off, it's "Saala.". The double a comes first. Second, I love the monologue. It neatly encapsulates Arrusif's view of the events. However, this should in fact be Arrusif's view, and not necessarily the reality. Aqua, for example, would hardly want "nothing to do with [him]," although she would shy away from an Inter-Mind war. (She cites the fact that such a war would blow the lid off the switch, causing widespread mistrust of the Minds at best and revolt at worst, not to mention that Obsid has Arrusif's people (and the nomon) held basically hostage, which Arrusif would ignore). Third, I'm not sure how Dekon wouldn't see Arrusif being driven to use the unadulterated power of the sun, although he may see it as impossible. Fourth, the whole point of the rehabilitation was to avoid the "shambling horror"-ness of lichdom.

1) I'm bad at names with multiple sets of vowels :smalltongue:
2) Arrusif always seemed like a guy who just had one. bad. day. Reality didn't really factor into his thoughts post-lichification
C) Aqua probably would have helped in a more sneaky sneak way had Arrusif not stormed off. Saala agreed, but thought Arrusif was too rash and impulsive/maybe not recuperating as well as they hoped. And Dekon always felt kind of mellow to me, so maybe the calm way he tried to talk to Arrusif felt like condescension to the lich. I'm not sure Arrusif would have told them about his "Sun" plot though.
D)...no wait...
4) I think Lichification is like alcoholism: You're never "cured", but always "recovering". The laundry list of horrible that Arrusif got gobsmacked by when he woke up probably didn't help much.
5) Pears. I hate pears! :smallamused:

[Landis963]

1) I'm bad at names with multiple sets of vowels :smalltongue:
2) Arrusif always seemed like a guy who just had one. bad. day. Reality didn't really factor into his thoughts post-lichification
C) Aqua probably would have helped in a more sneaky sneak way had Arrusif not stormed off. Saala agreed, but thought Arrusif was too rash and impulsive/maybe not recuperating as well as they hoped. And Dekon always felt kind of mellow to me, so maybe the calm way he tried to talk to Arrusif felt like condescension to the lich. I'm not sure Arrusif would have told them about his "Sun" plot though.
D)...no wait...
4) I think Lichification is like alcoholism: You're never "cured", but always "recovering". The laundry list of horrible that Arrusif got gobsmacked by when he woke up probably didn't help much.
5) Pears. I hate pears! :smallamused:

Somebody's been watching old Doctor Who eps.

In order:
1)It's no big, it's just that I can't help thinking of a plushie-sized beaconfish (http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/Mini) spawning every time you make that typo. (by the way, I will change that to something more terrestrial and non-earthlike when I think of it)
2) Yeah... maybe more like a bad week.
C) There's also the problem of how would Arrusif go about killing the Mind, and I don't think Aqua would have been able to help all that much. "sneaky sneak" methods would have been half intel-gathering, half stalling tactic, which Arrusif in his current state of mind would not like at all.
D/4) I guess. The point is if he doesn't concentrate on keeping his motions alive-looking, he starts jerking around like a marionette. Also, he can cast consistent illusions in his sleep (with such a negligible amount of energy that he can cast them continuously), but if he doesn't devote some part of his mind to controlling it directly, he starts looking like the Happy Mask Salesman.
5) I don't really like them either. Once they get the least bit ripe they get mushy and tasteless.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

C) There's also the problem of how would Arrusif go about killing the Mind, and I don't think Aqua would have been able to help all that much. "sneaky sneak" methods would have been half intel-gathering, half stalling tactic, which Arrusif in his current state of mind would not like at all.

I think Arrusif would have first thought, "Kill it with fire", considering his specialty. He might have been in that state of mind where just blowing up the Nexus would have been good to him. Alternatively, Aqua's sneaky plans would have also employed the creation of a much grander lattice-thing than what was used to store Arrusif. Like, had Arrusif just let Aqua finish her idea, they would have had a soul-trapping device to rip Obsid from the Nexus with. Then the Four Minds could've blasted his ancient corpse until it stopped twitching.


D/4) I guess. The point is if he doesn't concentrate on keeping his motions alive-looking, he starts jerking around like a marionette. Also, he can cast consistent illusions in his sleep (with such a negligible amount of energy that he can cast them continuously), but if he doesn't devote some part of his mind to controlling it directly, he starts looking like the Happy Mask Salesman.

That's just great. Add to the pile of suck he's got going on. He's stuck with illusions as his best power (assuming every fireball he throws threatens to catch his vines on fire) and if he's not paying attention he starts hobbling down the street like Horror-Pinocchio. And we wonder why he went Supervillain? :smallamused:

[Landis963]

Remember what I said back in the official history post? About how Arrusif was an illusionist human mage? Illusions were always his primary power. Now, however, it's just that trying to channel anything more dangerous than a candle flame causes his arms to develop veins of charcoal. Also, Arrusif was D-E-D dead in the interim. There was no storage, there was just "the soul left, then the soul was called back by a goblin and tied into the body and the fish tank phylactery." As for the uncanny valley-ness of Arrusif's costume, there might have been a learning curve, especially after he reawoke, but by the time the players come on the scene, he just needs to remember to breathe visibly.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

There was no storage, there was just "the soul left, then the soul was called back by a goblin and tied into the body and the fish tank phylactery."

I've forgotten now, where's the fishtank? I remember you mentioning it, but I now have a hilarious image of a skeleton dragging a fish tank behind him, huffing as he goes. :smallbiggrin:

[Landis963]

I've forgotten now, where's the fishtank? I remember you mentioning it, but I now have a hilarious image of a skeleton dragging a fish tank behind him, huffing as he goes. :smallbiggrin:

Dekon has it. As long as the enchantment on it works and Arrusif's memories get stored in it as they happen, distance shouldn't matter. (Again, this was a Mind-cast spell, like Saala's teleport pad) As for character justification, Dekon basically kept it for old times' sake, and convinced Arrusif (somehow) to leave it behind.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Dekon has it. As long as the enchantment on it works and Arrusif's memories get stored in it as they happen, distance shouldn't matter. (Again, this was a Mind-cast spell, like Saala's teleport pad) As for character justification, Dekon basically kept it for old times' sake, and convinced Arrusif (somehow) to leave it behind.

Maybe it's hidden in Dekon's library under a mountain of defensive spells. How big is the tank? At a certain size Dekon could have it as a wall in his throneroom "for decoration", a gift from Aqua...

[Landis963]

Maybe it's hidden in Dekon's library under a mountain of defensive spells. How big is the tank? At a certain size Dekon could have it as a wall in his throneroom "for decoration", a gift from Aqua...

Technically, it only needed to be the size of a human brain, but Aqua made it larger so the neuron-eddies would be easier to work with. To the Earth human's eye, it would resemble a large covered Grecian kylix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Type_A_kylix_MOS_1983_1157.JPG) (itself not unlike a large goblet) or a lidded spoutless soup tureen, except made entirely of glass and with beacon-jellies and horn coral instead of edibles. (It, or an illusion of it, would be hidden in plain sight on the staircase up to Dekon's throne room (specially-designed display cases lit by glowing mushroom), along with several other elaborately described gifts from the Minds. Among these: A compass that points north and towards Saalarann's physical location, a brightly jeweled and decorated set of robotic beetles from Obsidia, The fish tank itself, and a "chess" set made of ebon'a and whytestone, a seemingly mundane treasure of Dekon's that belonged to him and Arrusif back in Alabas, among many, many others. (NOTE: Should probably think up a game for the schemers at Alabas to play, but would like to distance it from chess somehow. My current thought is "Stratego, but the players build their armies from a common pool rather than having identical ones, on a hexagonal rather than a square board.")

[Ninjadeadbeard]

(NOTE: Should probably think up a game for the schemers at Alabas to play, but would like to distance it from chess somehow. My current thought is "Stratego, but the players build their armies from a common pool rather than having identical ones, on a hexagonal rather than a square board.")

Hmmm. Does it have to be a fully-thought-out game? Or can it be a "they play a sort of chess game. No, you don't know the rules. No, no one wants to tell you how to play. Because you smell funny."

I'm thinking something like Chinese Checkers, only there needs to be an elemental theme, like there are four sets of pieces, and they operate under different movement rules. Like "A Water piece can capture a Fire piece if it occupies the same space," but "A Fire piece cannot be taken by a Water if it shares one or more sides with another Fire piece". So, a Fire player tries to keep his pieces together, because a Water player can wreck him good like firefighters taking care of a small fire as opposed to a huge one.

Likewise, "Air pieces repel Water pieces, forcing the Water player to move his pieces at least one space away." But then "An Earth piece may capture a Water and replace it with a new Earth piece (like a plant absorbing water)". "A Fire piece may take any Earth piece, as Water takes Fire." "Air can move Fire like it can move Water, but it cannot move Earth."

You get a set number of pieces per "Mage", basically a Queen-style figure that works like a general piece. So if we have a 1 Player Per Element system, it's all about using your "Mages" to combine their "Spell Pieces" into huge, mega formations. But in a system where you can mix and match "Mages", it becomes a highly tactical game. For example, one player might have a Fire and a Wind Mage, and that allows him to burn Earth pieces while repelling Water pieces.

Oooooh!!! They can be two different styles! People in Riven (Rivein? Rivien?) prefer the "Freelancer Style", while people from the Mind-Cities focus on "Mind Style".

Thoughts?

[Landis963]

Hmmm. Does it have to be a fully-thought-out game? Or can it be a "they play a sort of chess game. No, you don't know the rules. No, no one wants to tell you how to play. Because you smell funny."

Not necessarily, it just feels like a cop-out to say it's fantasy chess. Also, :smallamused: at your handwave.


I'm thinking something like Chinese Checkers, only there needs to be an elemental theme, like there are four sets of pieces, and they operate under different movement rules. Like "A Water piece can capture a Fire piece if it occupies the same space," but "A Fire piece cannot be taken by a Water if it shares one or more sides with another Fire piece". So, a Fire player tries to keep his pieces together, because a Water player can wreck him good like firefighters taking care of a small fire as opposed to a huge one.

Likewise, "Air pieces repel Water pieces, forcing the Water player to move his pieces at least one space away." But then "An Earth piece may capture a Water and replace it with a new Earth piece (like a plant absorbing water)". "A Fire piece may take any Earth piece, as Water takes Fire." "Air can move Fire like it can move Water, but it cannot move Earth."

You get a set number of pieces per "Mage", basically a Queen-style figure that works like a general piece. So if we have a 1 Player Per Element system, it's all about using your "Mages" to combine their "Spell Pieces" into huge, mega formations. But in a system where you can mix and match "Mages", it becomes a highly tactical game. For example, one player might have a Fire and a Wind Mage, and that allows him to burn Earth pieces while repelling Water pieces.

I like it, but I think what could really sell it as a game originating in Alabas (like chess originated in Arabia, as I recall) is that the pieces are upside-down, which allows for a bluffing metagame. The exception to this is the mage, which is a towering figure clearly distinct from the "Spell" pieces.


Oooooh!!! They can be two different styles! People in Riven (Rivein? Rivien?) prefer the "Freelancer Style", while people from the Mind-Cities focus on "Mind Style".

Thoughts?

My first thought is: Why doesn't Freelancer Style have two Mages, which may or may not have the same element, while Mind Style restricts the player (regardless of number of mages per player) to one element. Alabas style, by contrast, is one mage, one element, one player.


Riven (Rivein? Rivien?)

http://en.mystlore.com/images/e/e1/Cho.jpg Chooo?:smalltongue:

It's Revien, by the way.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I like it, but I think what could really sell it as a game originating in Alabas (like chess originated in Arabia, as I recall) is that the pieces are upside-down, which allows for a bluffing metagame. The exception to this is the mage, which is a towering figure clearly distinct from the "Spell" pieces.

I like the idea of the game originating in Alabas, and the image of the towering mage piece is wonderful with that connection in mind. Perhaps then in Alabas they use one Mage piece and then many different Spell pieces that are kept face down so the opponent can't see the element. So it's "Secret Chinese Checker Stratego".


My first thought is: Why doesn't Freelancer Style have two Mages, which may or may not have the same element, while Mind Style restricts the player (regardless of number of mages per player) to one element. Alabas style, by contrast, is one mage, one element, one player.

I thought Freelancer style was a good name for a variant using multiple Mage pieces working together, sort of how Revien represents all the Minds and their elements, and how the Freelancers use people from every city. I originally thought that Mind Style should reflect the fact that each Mind was a master of a different element.

Now I'm thinking, Mind Style and Alabas Style use One Mage piece per player, while Freelancer uses multiple ones with reduced movement. In the former two the game ends when someone claims the Mage, but in the latter capturing one mage just eliminates one element from the field of play. Freelancer style could use 3 Mages and 3 elements, Mind style uses 2 mages and 2 elements, and Alabas uses 1 mage, but 3 elements.

[Landis963]

I thought Freelancer style was a good name for a variant using multiple Mage pieces working together, sort of how Revien represents all the Minds and their elements, and how the Freelancers use people from every city. I originally thought that Mind Style should reflect the fact that each Mind was a master of a different element.

Now I'm thinking, Mind Style and Alabas Style use One Mage piece per player, while Freelancer uses multiple ones with reduced movement. In the former two the game ends when someone claims the Mage, but in the latter capturing one mage just eliminates one element from the field of play. Freelancer style could use 3 Mages and 3 elements, Mind style uses 2 mages and 2 elements, and Alabas uses 1 mage, but 3 elements.

You mean Mind style is 1 mage, one element, one player, and Freelancer is 2 mages, 2 elements, 1 player? To set it apart from Alabas style, which has one mage per player but many elements? (The pieces are not "Spell" pieces in Alabas style, but "Slave". One of the many things changed about the game when it was brought to Almantha).

My first thought on how to change the mage piece's movement in Freelancer style was change it from "1 queen" to "2 kings" (to use earth chess terminology). However, my second thought was "2 kings does not equal 1 queen!" So, my current thought is that they are 2 bishops instead, and can move any diagonal distance, for four out of 6 directions (lateral directions are much less useful on a hexagonal board, when a certain piece can also choose to advance or retreat while retaining the lateral direction). Also, the variants for each element need to be altered slightly so that they can work with pieces that are hidden from the opponent until activated.

EDIT: I just had an idea about elf culture: ebon'a is only ever used for defense. Armor, shields, fortification, never a blade. Any blades that are made from ebon'a are considered deeply taboo, assumed to be cursed, and objects of revulsion.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

However, my second thought was "2 kings does not equal 1 queen!" So, my current thought is that they are 2 bishops instead, and can move any diagonal distance, for four out of 6 directions (lateral directions are much less useful on a hexagonal board, when a certain piece can also choose to advance or retreat while retaining the lateral direction). Also, the variants for each element need to be altered slightly so that they can work with pieces that are hidden from the opponent until activated.

How creeped out should I be that you guessed "Bishops", the exact same piece I was thinking? The Alabas Mage should move as many spaces as it wants, while the Mind Pieces should be restricted to...four, let's say.


EDIT: I just had an idea about elf culture: ebon'a is only ever used for defense. Armor, shields, fortification, never a blade. Any blades that are made from ebon'a are considered deeply taboo, assumed to be cursed, and objects of revulsion.

Sounds good. Elves shaping up to be pacifistic? I think there should be someone, either rogue assassin types or perhaps a slightly more...official group that use ebon'a weapons. For example, perhaps the PCs end up on the wrong side of someone working close to Dekon who's a bit zealous, and a couple of elves try to jump them with ebon'a weapons later. How cool would it be for the players to expose him, and watch Dekon just absorb the guy into his branches?

[Landis963]

How creeped out should I be that you guessed "Bishops", the exact same piece I was thinking? The Alabas Mage should move as many spaces as it wants, while the Mind Pieces should be restricted to...four, let's say.

Sure, why not? It sounds a little underpowered at first, but it's easier to understand than "can only go as far as a Spell piece in the same line as it," which was my next thought.


Sounds good. Elves shaping up to be pacifistic? I think there should be someone, either rogue assassin types or perhaps a slightly more...official group that use ebon'a weapons. For example, perhaps the PCs end up on the wrong side of someone working close to Dekon who's a bit zealous, and a couple of elves try to jump them with ebon'a weapons later. How cool would it be for the players to expose him, and watch Dekon just absorb the guy into his branches?

Pacifistic, yes. Stupid, no. It's only the ebon (that's the non-elven name for the material) weapons that get such a strong reaction, mostly because the trees in question are believed to have sacrificed everything to become ebon'a (using them as implements of murder is therefore considered an insult to both the victim and the tree itself). Almost anything else is fair game, although they do try to avoid (with all reasonable measures) an outright lethal attack. However, given that taboo, it feels difficult to justify an assassin cult that wouldn't just use poisoned wood or something. Also, such an assassin division shouldn't be official - I have difficulty believing Dekon wouldn't just kill them all after they ceased to be useful, especially if they used ebon weapons (Again, Dekon's a being-formerly-known-as-elf, and thus hates ebon weapons with the ire of any of them, although he recognizes their utility as a smear tactic).

EDIT: Also, how do you make accented letters in this system? the a in ebon'a should have an aigu on it, and I've been making do with the apostrophe.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

However, given that taboo, it feels difficult to justify an assassin cult that wouldn't just use poisoned wood or something. Also, such an assassin division shouldn't be official - I have difficulty believing Dekon wouldn't just kill them all after they ceased to be useful, especially if they used ebon weapons (Again, Dekon's a being-formerly-known-as-elf, and thus hates ebon weapons with the ire of any of them, although he recognizes their utility as a smear tactic).

I meant that if there was an evil Elf (there's gotta be one) who was perhaps sociopathic and didn't care about using ebon'a and who was a member of high Dekonio society, high enough to work as Dekon's "clean-up man" for when people find out things they shouldn't and Dekon isn't close enough to handle things himself, it could be an interesting adventure. The players get chased by an order of assassins who have been trained to use ebon'a weapons, while trying to clear their names and expose the whole fiasco to Dekon. The evil elf could justify himself by believing that he's doing Dekon's will (whereas in truth he's just mad and hears the echos of his own deluded thoughts, ala Vorbis (http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Small_Gods_(novel))). Dekon can't be looking in on every single elf in his city, all the time, can he?


Also, how do you make accented letters in this system? the a in ebon'a should have an aigu on it, and I've been making do with the apostrophe.

I have no idea. Try google translating a word that has an accent, like niña and then copypasta the ñ. Eboña, if that's the right accent.

And just realized you meant ń (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%83). So, ebońa.

[Landis963]

I meant that if there was an evil Elf (there's gotta be one) who was perhaps sociopathic and didn't care about using ebon'a and who was a member of high Dekonio society, high enough to work as Dekon's "clean-up man" for when people find out things they shouldn't and Dekon isn't close enough to handle things himself, it could be an interesting adventure. The players get chased by an order of assassins who have been trained to use ebon'a weapons, while trying to clear their names and expose the whole fiasco to Dekon. The evil elf could justify himself by believing that he's doing Dekon's will (whereas in truth he's just mad and hears the echos of his own deluded thoughts, ala Vorbis (http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Small_Gods_(novel))). Dekon can't be looking in on every single elf in his city, all the time, can he?

No, he can't, but I'm still not certain why Dekon would trust someone with the red flag of "sociopathic enough to weaponize the traditions surrounding eboná." (Again, why doesn't he use normal wood, or stone, or imported metal? All of these would be easier and less obvious to obtain than unrefined eboná, not to mention that the very fact that you will need to craft this blade outside elven territory (or with an amount of secrecy bordering on paranoid schizophrenia)) The evil elf could think that he's doing Dekon's will, sure, but as a serial killer, not in the capacity of a professional hitman.


I have no idea. Try google translating a word that has an accent, like niña and then copypasta the ñ. Eboña, if that's the right accent.

And just realized you meant ń (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%83). So, ebońa.

I just googled "words with accented a" and got something. Also, it's eboná, not ebońa.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I just googled "words with accented a" and got something. Also, it's eboná, not ebońa.

Well, as long as the mystery is solved, eh? Anything next?

[Landis963]

Well, now that you mention it, a Dark Brotherhood-esque assassin's guild might be good as an anti-Freelancer Guard. It needs to be secret, however. I'm thinking Keyser Soze/House Dimir levels of secrecy, the "I don't believe they exist" type of secrecy. Oh, and irredeemably evil and assholish. Arrusif was driven to madness, and has the whiff of sympathetic background. These guys... shouldn't. Stuff like laughing about killing otherwise innocent victims, for coin. Stuff like killing outside contacts when it comes time to reimburse them and feeding them into woodchippers to cover their tracks. They'd make a nice mid-level antagonist, especially if the players get contracted to track them down and exterminate them, by Arrusif, as a 2nd-act climax campaign.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Well, now that you mention it, a Dark Brotherhood-esque assassin's guild might be good as an anti-Freelancer Guard. It needs to be secret, however. I'm thinking Keyser Soze/House Dimir levels of secrecy, the "I don't believe they exist" type of secrecy. Oh, and irredeemably evil and assholish. Arrusif was driven to madness, and has the whiff of sympathetic background. These guys... shouldn't. Stuff like laughing about killing otherwise innocent victims, for coin. Stuff like killing outside contacts when it comes time to reimburse them and feeding them into woodchippers to cover their tracks. They'd make a nice mid-level antagonist, especially if the players get contracted to track them down and exterminate them, by Arrusif, as a 2nd-act climax campaign.

A haggard Freelancer near retirement hires the party to help him catch the perpetrators of a series of mass-murders he's been investigating for forty years. These were carried out by the assassins, but only ballooned in numbers because of "witness cleanup". Then...
after a failed ambush nearly kills the players, the officer appears to be killed by the assassins for getting too close. The party is put back on the trail by a disguised Arrusif, who may also be anarchistic like these guys, but considers himself far more noble. They discover that the Freelancer officer was really a mole the whole time, using his position to eliminate up and coming Freelancers who might be a threat, and may even be the assassin leader. The players are asked to stop him by Arrusif.

And then basically awesome happens up until Arrusif takes something from the assassins that he needs for his ritual thing and takes off, thanking the players all the while.

[Landis963]

A haggard Freelancer near retirement hires the party to help him catch the perpetrators of a series of Disappearances he's been investigating for forty years. These were carried out by the assassins, but only ballooned in numbers because of "witness cleanup". Then...
after a failed ambush nearly kills the players, the officer appears to be killed by the assassins for getting too close. The party is put back on the trail by a disguised Arrusif, who may also be anarchistic like these guys, but considers himself far more noble. They discover that the Freelancer officer was really a mole the whole time, using his position to eliminate up and coming Freelancers who might be a threat, and may even be the assassin leader. The players are asked to stop him by Arrusif.

And then basically awesome happens up until Arrusif takes something from the assassins that he needs for his ritual thing and takes off, thanking the players all the while.

Fixed that. Remember, they're so secret people don't believe they exist. At best, they might be remembered by an assassin cult that flourished in Alabas, but was believed to be exterminated during the war. EDIT: It's otherwise the perfect quest outline.

Also, I figured out a name for the artificial moon: Moxen. And the beginnings of a calendar: Moxen makes a complete orbit around the real moon (don't have a name for that moon yet) every week, and months are derived from the real moon, like on Earth. (In fact, the number and length of the months are surprisingly Earthlike, but that is of course subject to change). The "weekends" are when Moxen is hidden behind the real moon.

[Landis963]

For the calendar: First, we have the week as mentioned before. It's going to be an 8 day week, with three days with Moxen behind the moon, one when it's to the left, three in front, and one when it's to the right. 8*52=416 days in a year (if such year is comparable to our 52 week year). However, that seems a touch long from my perspective. 8*46=368 seems better, but you get into trouble when calculating seasons (11.5 weeks/season) and then splitting those weeks into months and days. Thoughts?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

For the calendar: First, we have the week as mentioned before. It's going to be an 8 day week, with three days with Moxen behind the moon, one when it's to the left, three in front, and one when it's to the right. 8*52=416 days in a year (if such year is comparable to our 52 week year). However, that seems a touch long from my perspective. 8*46=368 seems better, but you get into trouble when calculating seasons (11.5 weeks/season) and then splitting those weeks into months and days. Thoughts?

Hm. I don't see how it becomes difficult to split seasons into 11.5 weeks. It seems like longer weeks add up the difference. I would, however, suggest that one day during the weekend not be a true rest day. The first day of the 3-day weekend should be a half day where everyone has a big community lunch and goes home early. Some work gets done, and then the weekend starts. I only say this because otherwise it is always a very long weekend.

Also: Did you know that people who live to 121 lose about a year due to the extra 3 days from our calendar? :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Hm. I don't see how it becomes difficult to split seasons into 11.5 weeks. It seems like longer weeks add up the difference. I would, however, suggest that one day during the weekend not be a true rest day. The first day of the 3-day weekend should be a half day where everyone has a big community lunch and goes home early. Some work gets done, and then the weekend starts. I only say this because otherwise it is always a very long weekend.

Also: Did you know that people who live to 121 lose about a year due to the extra 3 days from our calendar? :smalltongue:

The problem is getting the 11.5 weeks/season to play nicely with a mostly consistent month size. If you do four weeks, then one come up half a week short, which spills over into the next season, and so on. Not helping matters is that 46 is only divisible by two (without going into decimals of course). Agreed on the first day of the 3-day weekend being a half day.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The problem is getting the 11.5 weeks/season to play nicely with a mostly consistent month size. If you do four weeks, then one come up half a week short, which spills over into the next season, and so on. Not helping matters is that 46 is only divisible by two (without going into decimals of course). Agreed on the first day of the 3-day weekend being a half day.

Or there could be 11 Weeks of 8 Days each Per Season. 11*8= 88 Days a Season. 88*4= 352 Days in the regular year. Here we are off by 368-352= 16 Days. Then in order to match everything up, there should be two, Week-Long Festivals during the Winter and Summer Solstices, considered separate from the regular months.

On that note: Seasons should be split into months in a 4-3-4 stagger. "Early Spring Month" is four weeks long, "High Spring" is three weeks long, and "Late Spring" lasts four more weeks. Need better names.

[Landis963]

Or there could be 11 Weeks of 8 Days each Per Season. 11*8= 88 Days a Season. 88*4= 352 Days in the regular year. Here we are off by 368-352= 16 Days. Then in order to match everything up, there should be two, Week-Long Festivals during the Winter and Summer Solstices, considered separate from the regular months.

On that note: Seasons should be split into months in a 4-3-4 stagger. "Early Spring Month" is four weeks long, "High Spring" is three weeks long, and "Late Spring" lasts four more weeks. Need better names.

The only problems I can see with that setup (and they're more nitpicks than anything else) is that a) the Solstices need to reliably fall between two months, otherwise it awkwardly cuts into a month and b) two seasons always get an extra week than the other two. (4+3+4=11, 3+4+3=10).

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The only problems I can see with that setup (and they're more nitpicks than anything else) is that a) the Solstices need to reliably fall between two months, otherwise it awkwardly cuts into a month and b) two seasons always get an extra week than the other two. (4+3+4=11, 3+4+3=10).

Huh. I don't know how that happened. It might not be a problem though. Do they even have 4 seasons? It could be that the years are split in the minds of the people as a Summer and Winter Cycle. This complicates things with the 4 Minds and the usual accompaniment of elements to seasons.

Unless of course the various Mind relationships are well known enough for people to combine them. Obsid and Dekon are represented by Summer, partly for the heat, and partly for the harvest. Salaa and Aqua represent Winter...because water and air make cold? Winter could be monsoon season. Just throwing out ideas. Thoughts?

[Landis963]

But these seasons existed before the Minds, and are a natural part of the Therinosian biosphere. That's the problem with tying them to the Minds - renaming the seasons after the gods is a touch presumptuous of you. (Renaming the Gods after the seasons is a bit less strict, but in this case the Gods are around to take issue with this rebranding).

On the Month calculation discrepancy; It doesn't really matter, the midseason month could always be 3 weeks long (thus bringing it exactly up to 11 weeks/season) or we could continue bashing our heads against our respective desks. It doesn't really matter until we get to the nitty-gritty of timing events down to the day. If that ever becomes necessary, which it may or may not. (Probably not.)

Actually, I had an Idea on what to do with those two extra weeks. Why don't we have it such that this two-week festival bridges the gap between years? So the first week would be in the past year, the year would change Midnight on "Sunday" of the first week, and then the second week would be the first of the new year. The Winter and Summer Solstice festivals can stay, but they'd only be one day, or a weekend. Days of Black Sun (Total eclipse) and Hollow Moon (Total eclipse+Moxen pointed at Therinos), of course, would be (respectively) feared as momentary loss of connection to everything around and celebrated as an influx of the purest magic one can get without burning. The trail of the latter would be well-trodden with travelers, while the trail of the former would be shunned due to (for lack of a better term) heebie-jeebies. EDIT: Oh yeah, and momentary power drain and (in the worst cases) loss.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

But these seasons existed before the Minds, and are a natural part of the Therinosian biosphere. That's the problem with tying them to the Minds - renaming the seasons after the gods is a touch presumptuous of you. (Renaming the Gods after the seasons is a bit less strict, but in this case the Gods are around to take issue with this rebranding).

Julius Caesar renamed July after himself, and August after Augustus Caesar. During the French Revolution, there was a new calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar) made up to completely replace the old. Calendars change, and sometimes ego is involved. Plus, it may have been Obsid's idea...


The Winter and Summer Solstice festivals can stay, but they'd only be one day, or a weekend. Days of Black Sun (Total eclipse) and Hollow Moon (Total eclipse+Moxen pointed at Therinos), of course, would be (respectively) feared as momentary loss of connection to everything around and celebrated as an influx of the purest magic one can get without burning. The trail of the latter would be well-trodden with travelers, while the trail of the former would be shunned due to (for lack of a better term) heebie-jeebies. EDIT: Oh yeah, and momentary power drain and (in the worst cases) loss.

I like this, although I wouldn't go with calling it Black Sun, if only to avoid Last Airbender references. Perhaps Shadow Sun, because of the dimming that occurs. I like Hollow Moon, but I feel like I've heard it before. I don't know what to do with that.

But I do like the loss of magical power during a solar eclipse. You could have it where two armies once fought, and the less magically dependent one attacked during a solar eclipse to win. The Lunar Eclipse, I feel, should be split into two events. In the first, the Lunar Eclipse, the moon's vanishing interferes with magic, increasing the likelihood of mishap. The Moxon + Eclipse would be the huge power boost. I'd actually say that it shouldn't be taboo to perform a ritual that channels this power, simply because there's very few spells that require such power, and none of them would be known by anyone other than the Minds. Such an eclipse would be the time when experimentation hits the high water mark, since the various universities would love to get ahold of a power boost even for one night.

[Landis963]

Julius Caesar renamed July after himself, and August after Augustus Caesar. During the French Revolution, there was a new calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar) made up to completely replace the old. Calendars change, and sometimes ego is involved. Plus, it may have been Obsid's idea...

Perhaps I should make my beef clearer. Renaming months, yes. Renaming Seasons, no.


I like this, although I wouldn't go with calling it Black Sun, if only to avoid Last Airbender references. Perhaps Shadow Sun, because of the dimming that occurs. I like Hollow Moon, but I feel like I've heard it before. I don't know what to do with that.

A quick Google search tells me that it (Hollow Moon) the name of a pseudoscientific "theory" that basically says that there is a huge underground space inside the moon. Why not "Day of Hidden Sun" or something? Keeps the Sun/Moon contrast, gives a touch of a theme to it (two-syllable words that start with H)


But I do like the loss of magical power during a solar eclipse. You could have it where two armies once fought, and the less magically dependent one attacked during a solar eclipse to win. The Lunar Eclipse, I feel, should be split into two events. In the first, the Lunar Eclipse, the moon's vanishing interferes with magic, increasing the likelihood of mishap. The Moxon + Eclipse would be the huge power boost. I'd actually say that it shouldn't be taboo to perform a ritual that channels this power, simply because there's very few spells that require such power, and none of them would be known by anyone other than the Minds. Such an eclipse would be the time when experimentation hits the high water mark, since the various universities would love to get ahold of a power boost even for one night.

Yeah, that's basically what I said (re: the Lunar eclipse messing with magic and the Moxon + Eclipse amplifying it). I do like the idea of a solar eclipse leading one side to victory over another. Maybe...:smallconfused: maybe we can work that into the Alabas war. How's this: Arrusif and several Freelancer teams cross the seas and infiltrate Alabas. Arrusif receives a Sending (or similar spell) that informs him of the upcoming eclipse, thereby putting a clock on any subterfuge and takeover. The Freelancer leader sends out his men to cause trouble and rally the nuli behind their cause, while Arrusif selects a few to sabotage the network of magic nexi blanketing the supervolcano in a very specific way. The nuli who can't fight are given some guard (mostly the eldest/most experienced sons whose fathers are preparing to overthrow the nobles, plus some Freelancers) and evacuated, while the rest go into guerrilla warfare, supplied by the Freelancers, who themselves turn or kill other nobles as sabotage. The nobles's armies (also mercs, but more thuggish than the Freelancers) are channeled into a specific field, where the nuli, they were told, would face them in fair combat. The nobles get to the field early, they think. Cue the eclipse, cue the nuli pouring out of the trees, cue the slaughter. Meanwhile, Arrusif's team sets the network of nexi to fail dramatically the next time the nobles try and use it. Of course, they've been trying to tap into it since their armies were slaughtered, so as soon as the eclipse passed (Arrusif getting as many of the nuli as possible into the evacuation boats in the meantime) the nobles gathered up a surge of energy from their many, many nexi and cast it out at them - or they would if all of the nexi in their realm hadn't immediately shattered into shards as soon as they tried to channel. Then the rumbling started, and Arrusif frantically warning the air mages to channel as much wind into the sails as possible, while doing his part to channel the blast away from their fleet.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Perhaps I should make my beef clearer. Renaming months, yes. Renaming Seasons, no.

Let me rephrase that...what if the culture of Almantha only recognizes two seasons? Like they roll late Spring, Summer and Early Fall into Summer, and Late Fall, Winter and early Spring are just Winter. I seem to recall the ancient Greeks treating seasons in a similar way.


A quick Google search tells me that it (Hollow Moon) the name of a pseudoscientific "theory" that basically says that there is a huge underground space inside the moon. Why not "Day of Hidden Sun" or something? Keeps the Sun/Moon contrast, gives a touch of a theme to it (two-syllable words that start with H)

Makes me think of The Moon Princess stories from Edgar Rice Burroughs. Yeah, Hidden Sun, Hidden Moon, and Triumphant Moxen sound good (maybe not the last one but whatever).


Maybe...:smallconfused: maybe we can work that into the Alabas war. How's this: *snip*

Sounds great. Arrusif could have also manipulated the Nexi to be much more efficient in energy consumption so that when the Solar Eclipse wore off the sudden power surge caused the Nexi to overcharge. When the next Alabasan tried to touch that power...BOOM.

I now have the wonderful image of a line of desperate wind mages blasting their sails while Arrusif panic-mutters, "Must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster...":smalltongue:

[Landis963]

Let me rephrase that...what if the culture of Almantha only recognizes two seasons? Like they roll late Spring, Summer and Early Fall into Summer, and Late Fall, Winter and early Spring are just Winter. I seem to recall the ancient Greeks treating seasons in a similar way.

OK, but their names shouldn't really reflect those of the Minds.


Sounds great. Arrusif could have also manipulated the Nexi to be much more efficient in energy consumption so that when the Solar Eclipse wore off the sudden power surge caused the Nexi to overcharge. When the next Alabasan tried to touch that power...BOOM.

:smallamused: A bit more onomatopoeia than that. Remember that the network of nexi was keeping the lid on a supervolcano?


I now have the wonderful image of a line of desperate wind mages blasting their sails while Arrusif panic-mutters, "Must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster must go faster...":smalltongue:

The air casters were desperately channeling air into the sails, the fire casters were desperately channeling the rapidly rising lava into places it wouldn't reach them, the water casters were channeling swift currents, and the earth mages were sculpting caverns and such to aid the fire mages. :smallbiggrin: Also, yeah, that is a great image.

[Landis963]

I've been thinking of inducing a weakness into the casting of young mages (because as it stands, an overzealous toddler mage can crush, or freeze, or burn, or shock, or otherwise accidentally kill someone). Specifically, they are restricted from casting anything that could actually hurt someone, until they "awaken" or "break through" at around age 14. (Fire toddlers cast illusions, earth toddlers can only dig tiny holes, or cause something to sprout/bloom on command, but that's about it until their "awakening"). (terminology seems a little weird, thoughts?) Not quite sure what, if anything, should trigger this, as "something shocking" can go very dark, very quickly. I'm certain there are some plot holes with this, so thoughts, Ninja? Anybody else lurking and want to come out of the woodwork?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I've been thinking of inducing a weakness into the casting of young mages (because as it stands, an overzealous toddler mage can crush, or freeze, or burn, or shock, or otherwise accidentally kill someone). Specifically, they are restricted from casting anything that could actually hurt someone, until they "awaken" or "break through" at around age 14. (Fire toddlers cast illusions, earth toddlers can only dig tiny holes, or cause something to sprout/bloom on command, but that's about it until their "awakening"). (terminology seems a little weird, thoughts?) Not quite sure what, if anything, should trigger this, as "something shocking" can go very dark, very quickly. I'm certain there are some plot holes with this, so thoughts, Ninja? Anybody else lurking and want to come out of the woodwork?

Magic in this setting, it seems to me, is based on finer and finer degrees of control over a given element. I think that would indicate a very likely possibility of a young mage blowing themselves up. It could be that casting magic requires stamina, more than anyone that young can manage without passing out just by charging the spell. Magic is like talking. Rudimentary control can start to appear early, but anything useful won't show up until later.

In short, just make it so that a person's magic is very, very weak until they've physically matured. It seems funny that there should be a legal limit on how young someone can be before they learn magic to defend themselves, or that there should be a legal difference between a murderer child and a normal murderer. A 9 year old's fireball would be like turning the heater up, an earth attack would be nothing more than a loose dirt cloud.

[Landis963]

Magic in this setting, it seems to me, is based on finer and finer degrees of control over a given element. I think that would indicate a very likely possibility of a young mage blowing themselves up. It could be that casting magic requires stamina, more than anyone that young can manage without passing out just by charging the spell. Magic is like talking. Rudimentary control can start to appear early, but anything useful won't show up until later.

In short, just make it so that a person's magic is very, very weak until they've physically matured. It seems funny that there should be a legal limit on how young someone can be before they learn magic to defend themselves, or that there should be a legal difference between a murderer child and a normal murderer. A 9 year old's fireball would be like turning the heater up, an earth attack would be nothing more than a loose dirt cloud.


That makes sense. the "awakening" thing basically came out of a train of thought trying to explore how the nuli were under the thumb of the Alabasan nobles for so long (and the answer I came up with was "they were suppressing the magic of the nuli for decades." I'm fairly certain there are simpler answers, but that's what I came up with)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

That makes sense. the "awakening" thing basically came out of a train of thought trying to explore how the nuli were under the thumb of the Alabasan nobles for so long (and the answer I came up with was "they were suppressing the magic of the nuli for decades." I'm fairly certain there are simpler answers, but that's what I came up with)

The Alabasan nobles could have simply stolen away any Nuli children who showed signs of magic and indoctrinated them into a Janissary styles force loyal to them. Then if any slipped through the cracks they'd never get the training necessary in order to be a credible threat. Ironic, isn't it then that the one's who did destroy them were renegade nobles (aka the Minds).

[Landis963]

The Alabasan nobles could have simply stolen away any Nuli children who showed signs of magic and indoctrinated them into a Janissary styles force loyal to them. Then if any slipped through the cracks they'd never get the training necessary in order to be a credible threat. Ironic, isn't it then that the one's who did destroy them were renegade nobles (aka the Minds).

That doesn't work either, because everyone, regardless of station, can cast. The nobles stealing away children that "show signs of magic" would be left with a very large army and a very small workforce. Not that the Janissary indoctrination wouldn't be a viable strategy, but it would be put into a form of tribute rather than just "stealing". (Of course, if they suppressed the magic of the nuli, and then snapped up the kids that slipped those bonds, it could work, and would show how they would be a credible threat during the war). The main problem is, though, how would they suppress the magic in the first place? Anti-magic is too obvious, requires a large amount of power (not really a factor due to number of available magic nexi), and is only available to earth mages. Stupidity-inducing water spells run into similar problems, although subtlety would decrease as a factor as the potency of the spell increases. However, too potent of a stupidity spell would leave your workers brainless. I'm thinking that the only really viable method of control (besides, you know, intimidation, etc.) would be to drain the magic out of the natural sources and leave the nuli parched of power.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

We could take a page from Dragon Age and have the Alabasans practice magic lobotomies. One idea I have is that the Alabasan mages developed a sort of magical tattoo that drains magic from a person into a Nexi, and they apply this to every child born to Nuli. It becomes easier with quislings, Nuli who warn their masters of an impending birth incase the parents try to hide them. Once a year every Nuli village/camp/etc hands one of their children over to serve the Janissary Corps. After indoctrination, they can remove the tattoo. This mark could also be used as a punishment for rebellious nobles and the like.

I say that draining magic from an area would be awkward since the nobles would get drained when they're in the area, doing their oppressor shtick.

[Landis963]

We could take a page from Dragon Age and have the Alabasans practice magic lobotomies. One idea I have is that the Alabasan mages developed a sort of magical tattoo that drains magic from a person into a Nexi, and they apply this to every child born to Nuli. It becomes easier with quislings, Nuli who warn their masters of an impending birth incase the parents try to hide them. Once a year every Nuli village/camp/etc hands one of their children over to serve the Janissary Corps. After indoctrination, they can remove the tattoo. This mark could also be used as a punishment for rebellious nobles and the like.

I say that draining magic from an area would be awkward since the nobles would get drained when they're in the area, doing their oppressor shtick.

What you're describing is basically an Energy Drain sigil, that takes energy from the nul it's tattooed on in order to function (by taking energy from the target, the nul it's tattooed on). Also, the nuli are never given the honor of a capital (that would mean they are proper nouns), and "nuli" is the plural while "nul" is the singular. [/nitpick] Also, to facilitate the brainwashing, why don't we have it such that any child chosen to be in the Janissary analogues (I don't want to call them "Janissaries" as that's an obvious allusion to the Ottoman Empire, and Alabas already has Wutai-esque trappings around it in my mind) would be mind-wiped by a water mage that the noble has on retainer?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I thought they would be a sigil of some sort, but I wasn't sure. I suppose that using mindwiping spells makes sense. I personally find it more terrifying that someone could be made a traitor to his kind without magical coercion at all, but it fits with the whole "Evil Corrupt Wizards" vibe.

Also, for a name besides Janissary, how about Shaighdiúir Nua or something similar? It's Irish for new soldier, the English translation of Janissary. I went with Irish since Alabasa always struck me as somewhat Arthurian England (Alabas, Albion, yeah?). Just a thought. Might want to try different languages to base the name off.

[Landis963]

I thought they would be a sigil of some sort, but I wasn't sure.

The sigils could have been stumbled upon before Arrusif started to invent them in earnest, but I don't think it was ever explored beyond "how to keep our nuli in line". EDIT: I mean that the sigils weren't really utilized to their fullest. One of the reasons Dekon decided to leave (I think Arrusif decided to bring it to his attention, and then they brought Aqua and Saala in on the plan to fake their deaths and leave Alabas for good, and they all would have had their own reasons to leave, beyond the ones already discussed).


I suppose that using mindwiping spells makes sense. I personally find it more terrifying that someone could be made a traitor to his kind without magical coercion at all, but it fits with the whole "Evil Corrupt Wizards" vibe.

The problem with that is that not every noble can efficiently design a brainwashing scheme that gets results (other than a growing pile of dead failures). Furthermore, not all the nobles who design such a regimen would be able to make it stick. However, given that, I think it would be better if it varied from house to house. Some involve 1984-esque tortures, others just zap them with geases or Marks of Justice, some use other creative ways to mold thoughts toward fanatic service. (A very devious noble might, for example, spread a rumor that any child he takes is as good as dead, and then releases the child back to their parents most of the way through the process so that the resulting distrust makes them choose his army instead of the nuli)


Also, for a name besides Janissary, how about Shaighdiúir Nua or something similar? It's Irish for new soldier, the English translation of Janissary. I went with Irish since Alabasa always struck me as somewhat Arthurian England (Alabas, Albion, yeah?). Just a thought. Might want to try different languages to base the name off.

But "nuli", meaning "slaves", doesn't sound very Irish, does it? I just thought that a Sino-Japanese hybrid would work well as a culture. "Nuli" in particular is actually Chinese for "slave", singular, and I thought that the suffix "-i" would work as a generic pluralization in the Alabasan language. Couple that with the syllabic characters in "ancient Alabasan" that deface the statues of Arrusif that were redubbed "Obsid" in Obsidia, and you can see that this was where I was coming from. Apologies if that wasn't clear. As for the Jannissary name, why don't we call them the Shineitai, from the Japanese shin, meaning "new", and heitai, meaning "troops, army".

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The sigils could have been stumbled upon before Arrusif started to invent them in earnest, but I don't think it was ever explored beyond "how to keep our nuli in line".

It's funny how you say that, since that's usually the reason I've always heard for their being no Roman Industrial Revolution, despite the fact that Antiquity had access to steam technology. Slaves were cheaper, and there was a strange stigma against intellectuals using their inventions for profit. Alabasan Nobles already had boosted magic due to the Nexi, so why did they need to advance magical studies any further?


The problem with that is that not every noble can efficiently design a brainwashing scheme that gets results (other than a growing pile of dead failures). Furthermore, not all the nobles who design such a regimen would be able to make it stick. However, given that, I think it would be better if it varied from house to house. Some involve 1984-esque tortures, others just zap them with geases or Marks of Justice, some use other creative ways to mold thoughts toward fanatic service. (A very devious noble might, for example, spread a rumor that any child he takes is as good as dead, and then releases the child back to their parents most of the way through the process so that the resulting distrust makes them choose his army instead of the nuli)

I love that last reason! Although I think you're leaving out simple greed. An Alabasan could bribe his nul with the offer of magical power, and then get them essentially addicted to it.


But "nuli", meaning "slaves", doesn't sound very Irish, does it? I just thought that a Sino-Japanese hybrid would work well as a culture. "Nuli" in particular is actually Chinese for "slave", singular, and I thought that the suffix "-i" would work as a generic pluralization in the Alabasan language. Couple that with the syllabic characters in "ancient Alabasan" that deface the statues of Arrusif that were redubbed "Obsid" in Obsidia, and you can see that this was where I was coming from. Apologies if that wasn't clear. As for the Jannissary name, why don't we call them the Shineitai, from the Japanese shin, meaning "new", and heitai, meaning "troops, army".

I have a bad habit of getting a single idea in my head and then forgetting that it wasn't canon. I think Shineitai is a good name, very appropriate.

[Landis963]

It's funny how you say that, since that's usually the reason I've always heard for their being no Roman Industrial Revolution, despite the fact that Antiquity had access to steam technology. Slaves were cheaper, and there was a strange stigma against intellectuals using their inventions for profit. Alabasan Nobles already had boosted magic due to the Nexi, so why did they need to advance magical studies any further?

Like I said, it's one of the reasons Arrusif came up with the idea of leaving in the first place. (Dekon came along because he was devoted to Arrusif, Saala wanted to let her nuli escape the cruelties of her neighbors, and Aqua jumped at the chance because she knew that the current system self-selected for self-centered hedonists, and she was just fine with being a benevolent hedonist, thanks very much)


I love that last reason! Although I think you're leaving out simple greed. An Alabasan could bribe his nuli with the offer of magical power, and then get them essentially addicted to it.

But then said noble would need to turn it on and off at will, which could be very difficult especially when everyone in the same room needs a different level of power. Also, "nul" is the singular, as I explained in my last post.


I have a bad habit of getting a single idea in my head and then forgetting that it wasn't canon. I think Shineitai is a good name, very appropriate.

I'm currently thinking the singular should be Shineitan.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

But then said noble would need to turn it on and off at will, which could be very difficult especially when everyone in the same room needs a different level of power. Also, "nul" is the singular, as I explained in my last post.

I am aware. I used it in the singular because I imagined a Master dealing with a singular nul in that scenario.

[Landis963]

I am aware. I used it in the singular because I imagined a Master dealing with a singular nul in that scenario.

Your point about the grammar is taken, but the main problem with the scenario is that if there are a group of nuli, all of whom are "addicted" to the noble's magic in this way, then either all of them are at the same level of addiction (unlikely, IMO), or he needs to fine-tune the amount of magic he gives each nul on the fly, which would get more difficult as the army size increases.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Your point about the grammar is taken, but the main problem with the scenario is that if there are a group of nuli, all of whom are "addicted" to the noble's magic in this way, then either all of them are at the same level of addiction (unlikely, IMO), or he needs to fine-tune the amount of magic he gives each nul on the fly, which would get more difficult as the army size increases.

They don't necessarily have to be army sized. I'd imagine if there were an Emperor-figure, only he'd get that many (and probably enough retainers to train them all), while nobles made do with at most a squad. It's more like a Real Life version of that board game Alabasan nobles play: one Noble Mage with a small group of trained "pieces" that are valuable, but ultimately expendable in a fight. You'd only ever need a squad to deal with a nuli uprising (magic being a force multiplier IMO) and combat between Nobles would probably be more like duels, with little need for the extra help (well, maybe for gits and shiggles).

[Landis963]

They don't necessarily have to be army sized. I'd imagine if there were an Emperor-figure, only he'd get that many (and probably enough retainers to train them all), while nobles made do with at most a squad. It's more like a Real Life version of that board game Alabasan nobles play: one Noble Mage with a small group of trained "pieces" that are valuable, but ultimately expendable in a fight. You'd only ever need a squad to deal with a nuli uprising (magic being a force multiplier IMO) and combat between Nobles would probably be more like duels, with little need for the extra help (well, maybe for gits and shiggles).

... and thus they'd be great against low-level threats like a disorganized nul uprising, but sitting ducks against a real threat like a squad of Freelancers. Sure, I can get behind that. Agreed totally on magic being a force multiplier, but it gets a little weird when anyone can cast offensive spells. (without some sort of restraining bolt, as discussed)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

... and thus they'd be great against low-level threats like a disorganized nul uprising, but sitting ducks against a real threat like a squad of Freelancers. Sure, I can get behind that. Agreed totally on magic being a force multiplier, but it gets a little weird when anyone can cast offensive spells. (without some sort of restraining bolt, as discussed)

I expect that there's a certain minimum threshold of training one has to hit before offensive magic gets useful. Like, an untrained nul could hurl a blast of enraged fire at their master's head...but it'll be weaker than a traditional fireball that's bound and enhanced by Laws and Principles and whatnot, and possibly much easier to deflect with the barest amount of effort by a trained mage.

Untrained mage = guy with a rifle
Trained Mage = A-10 Thunderbolt II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II)

[Landis963]

Untrained mage = guy with a rifle
Trained Mage = A-10 Thunderbolt II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II)

:smallconfused: That seems a little drastic for a differential. Maybe it'd get up to fighter-jet when a specific PC is epic level, but when you're that powerful and can grasp and channel that much energy? Plots disintegrate before your annoyed glance. It's the reason the Minds started the plot in motion before they were gods. (They are, for all intents and purposes, gods in their current states, there's no way around this) Now that they are gods, they've waved all the ordinary problems out of their way, and all that's left is the extraordinary problems (read: Obsid, Mad!Arrusif). For the normal mage, maybe a better range would be:

Untrained mage = Average guy with a shotgun
Trained mage = Expert marksman with a sniper rifle

EDIT: Otherwise agree with everything you said. Grasp is more a problem though, when referring to lethality of an attack. The average nul, sapped and untrained beyond the secrets the nuli hid from their masters, would be able to channel, say, a fist-sized ball of flame at someone else as the beginning of a rebellion. However, as soon as he lets that flame go, it's subject to physics, it's subject to any other casters in the area catching it and sending it elsewhere, etc. Say a nul grabbed a fist sized puddle of water and channeled it to freeze into a blade, with the intent of attacking someone. As soon as he was sufficiently distracted, it would either melt back into water or he would be unable to control it beyond simple knife-fighting. If he threw it at a target instead of holding it himself, it would melt mid-flight and splatter, the ice blade could go off-target (depending on where the concentration stopped and how fast it was going, and that it didn't melt first), or the would-be (assuming water mage) target would catch it with his magic, send it back around, sharpen it mid flight, send it into the chest of the would-be rebel, and then set said rebel's limbs to work the rest of the day while the icy dagger grew redder and redder. (In this case, the would-be target would order the nearest overseer to channel the rebel's blood to get him to work that way, if they weren't the overseer themselves)

[Ninjadeadbeard]

That's a pretty nasty (though efficient) way of getting rid of a union dispute...:smalltongue:

[Landis963]

That's a pretty nasty (though efficient) way of getting rid of a union dispute...:smalltongue:

Heh, yeah. It helps that simple things like "right to self-determinate" were considered more privileges when it came to the nuli.

Are spellcasting mechanics clear enough? I feel like I've been talking around them, and not on them.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Are spellcasting mechanics clear enough? I feel like I've been talking around them, and not on them.

Seems simple enough. You need the Will for your desires to manifest, the element you wish to manipulate nearby and a proper level of ambient energies to empower the spell itself. Was there anything else?

Also, off topic, could you check this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251914) out? It's a lot of stuff, I know, so don't feel pressured to respond or read the whole thing if you don't have time. It just has a lot of views and no feedback, is all.

[Landis963]

The only remaining thing is a physics issue. When a mage starts to channel, the thing their channeling defaults to a specific phase of matter dictated by their element. An earth mage's channelings default to solid, a water mage's to liquid, a fire mage's to plasma, and so on. However, a mage can also channel things to change phase, or levitate things not of their element. This is through a special technique called "latticing", where you form a basket of your element around or beneath the thing you want to manipulate, and channel that. (This, for example, would be how the nul who got stabbed and bloodbended for his trouble would be able to freeze and manipulate the flight of his icy knife, and how his would-be target would be able to send it back at him) When the mage stops channeling, the environment takes over, making channeled ice melt like normal ice, fire dying out, gases condensing, and earth succumbing to gravity.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Hmmm. So there's definitely a range issue with magic, to some degree. Although if you magicked a rock to go hurtling towards someone, even after you stop enchanting it necessarily wouldn't inertia keep that going? Or do Physics violently return all magicked things to the status quo as soon as magic is no longer feeding the effect?

Actually, this gives a perfect reason why people (read: Arrusif) want to harness sun magic. Except for a total lunar eclipse there's always sunlight or moonlight, and so you could say that enchanting derived from those sources would last forever, since the magic would always be there (could be argued that residual heat from daytime keeps the enchantment running during total eclipses as well.). A Solar Mage could make a permanent Ice Palace in a Desert that never melts, or a defensive windstorm around a palace that never ends. It's like being a Mind but with a bit more power, and maybe fewer limitations. It's just that no one thought such was really possible...except our own resident psychopathic lich, Arrusif.

[Landis963]

Hmmm. So there's definitely a range issue with magic, to some degree. Although if you magicked a rock to go hurtling towards someone, even after you stop enchanting it necessarily wouldn't inertia keep that going? Or do Physics violently return all magicked things to the status quo as soon as magic is no longer feeding the effect?

Inertia would in fact keep it going, although a smart opposing earth mage would be able to bring it to a stop without it hitting anything (important, that is) if they were paying attention.


Actually, this gives a perfect reason why people (read: Arrusif) want to harness sun magic. Except for a total lunar eclipse there's always sunlight or moonlight, and so you could say that enchanting derived from those sources would last forever, since the magic would always be there (could be argued that residual heat from daytime keeps the enchantment running during total eclipses as well.). A Solar Mage could make a permanent Ice Palace in a Desert that never melts, or a defensive windstorm around a palace that never ends. It's like being a Mind but with a bit more power, and maybe fewer limitations. It's just that no one thought such was really possible...except our own resident psychopathic lich, Arrusif.

To be fair, to date (this would be the date the players come onto the scene) there has been no reliable method for harnessing massive amounts of power like one would need to to tap into the sun. It helps/hurts (depending on POV) that all the unreliable ones, by nature of their intended usage, tend to overload and explode, often taking their inventors with them. In this way they have proven very difficult to study for flaws, since everything in a rather large radius from the epicenter is charred, slag, or charred slag.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

To be fair, to date (this would be the date the players come onto the scene) there has been no reliable method for harnessing massive amounts of power like one would need to to tap into the sun. It helps/hurts (depending on POV) that all the unreliable ones, by nature of their intended usage, tend to overload and explode, often taking their inventors with them. In this way they have proven very difficult to study for flaws, since everything in a rather large radius from the epicenter is charred, slag, or charred slag.

I'm not saying that it has been done before, but that theoretically it should be possible. Actually, the track record of tests for such power would probably turn out a lot like these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il_446Ry4Ic). Burning ruins and glassed earth.

Still, just because no one has done it yet, doesn't mean it can't be done at all. And we know there aren't flaws, since if there were and Arrusif beat the Players and became a living Sun God or whatever, he'd probably be burnt up by the flaws. So Law of Drama says that, at least for Arrusif, there are no flaws to stop you from using Sun Magic. :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

I'm not saying that it has been done before, but that theoretically it should be possible. Actually, the track record of tests for such power would probably turn out a lot like these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il_446Ry4Ic). Burning ruins and glassed earth.

Still, just because no one has done it yet, doesn't mean it can't be done at all. And we know there aren't flaws, since if there were and Arrusif beat the Players and became a living Sun God or whatever, he'd probably be burnt up by the flaws. So Law of Drama says that, at least for Arrusif, there are no flaws to stop you from using Sun Magic. :smalltongue:

Yep. Basically. Of course, a red herring job might be guard duty for such an experimenter, only to have his various apparatus' blow up as soon as the party gets close. :smalltongue: But the point is that yes, it is possible, it just needs quite a lot of collectors, regulators, and other things to keep the whole thing from overloading. Most of Arrusif's research in post-apocalyptic Alabas was research into these collectors.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Yep. Basically. Of course, a red herring job might be guard duty for such an experimenter, only to have his various apparatus' blow up as soon as the party gets close. :smalltongue:

And get blamed for it I assume? Can't let the players off the hook so easily...:smallbiggrin:


But the point is that yes, it is possible, it just needs quite a lot of collectors, regulators, and other things to keep the whole thing from overloading. Most of Arrusif's research in post-apocalyptic Alabas was research into these collectors.

Do you think Arrusif would build his collectors and regulators in Almantha, or Alabasa? Alabasa is safer what with the Minds being so far away to stop him easily, but the gloating factor (and the lulz) could make him do the Ritual while tap-dancing on the highest point of Noruen.

Also, would these devices he needs be mechanical in nature, or should he need to create artificial Nexi fed with the blood of a thousand victims in order to control the sun?

[Landis963]

And get blamed for it I assume? Can't let the players off the hook so easily...:smallbiggrin:

Maybe, it depends on what the players do. If they spend time looting the wreckage, then they will be caught and blamed for whatever went wrong.If not, it'll just be a humorous anticlimax.


Do you think Arrusif would build his collectors and regulators in Almantha, or Alabas? Alabas is safer what with the Minds being so far away to stop him easily, but the gloating factor (and the lulz) could make him do the Ritual while tap-dancing on the highest point of Noreun.

It's more timing than anything else (The sun, the moon, and Moxen need to line up perfectly, and it just so happens that it the path of that umbra-within-an-umbra happens to pass over Revien in the right timeframe), but I'd be lying if I didn't say "tap-dancing on the highest point of the Noreun" wouldn't appeal to Arrusif somewhat. As for constructing the pieces, I think he'd do most of his experimentation in Alabas (he'd lack for test subjects, but that's the only issue) and it'd be easier to smuggle pieces into Almantha than entire artifacts (although if he couldn't break something apart reliably or wasn't confident he could put it back together, he might hire the PCs to re-acquire a specific artifact or two).


Also, would these devices he needs be mechanical in nature, or should he need to create artificial Nexi fed with the blood of a thousand victims in order to control the sun?

:smallconfused: ehhh... Let's say "magitechnical". Blood magic per se doesn't really exist, but the devices he uses in the climactic ritual are designed to interact with nexi in a magical way.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

As for constructing the pieces, I think he'd do most of his experimentation in Alabas (he'd lack for test subjects, but that's the only issue) and it'd be easier to smuggle pieces into Almantha than entire artifacts (although if he couldn't break something apart reliably or wasn't confident he could put it back together, he might hire the PCs to re-acquire a specific artifact or two).

Wouldn't an exciting adventure be one where the PCs have to retrieve one of Arrusif's pieces from pirates who stole it from the harbor before it could be unloaded into Almantha? A pirate crew of Water and Air Mages would be a great challenge to overcome...or infiltrate.


:smallconfused: ehhh... Let's say "magitechnical". Blood magic per se doesn't really exist, but the devices he uses in the climactic ritual are designed to interact with nexi in a magical way.

Alright, so he has to physically build the Devices he needs to manipulate the Nexi in such a way as to take control of the Sun. It's like Tesla's Device from The Prestige (good movie, go watch it, I'll wait).

[Landis963]

Wouldn't an exciting adventure be one where the PCs have to retrieve one of Arrusif's pieces from pirates who stole it from the harbor before it could be unloaded into Almantha? A pirate crew of Water and Air Mages would be a great challenge to overcome...or infiltrate.

Adventure hook: The team is tasked with tracking (and, if possible, destroying) a cartel of pirates currently harassing Obsidia. They are told that killing one band of pirates will not end the threat, and given some hints that infiltration might be the best way to go. It can't be a threat to Aquacor, because Aqua would curbstomp them, then start experimenting with adrenalin, if you catch my drift.


Alright, so he has to physically build the Devices he needs to manipulate the Nexi in such a way as to take control of the Sun. It's like Tesla's Device from The Prestige (good movie, go watch it, I'll wait).

I haven't seen The Prestige, but I've always heard it's good. (it's one of Nolan's and I've only seen Inception and his first two Batman movies. (Memento was playing at the college movie theater one night, but I didn't get to see all of it. And that's basically correct, it's just that he needs to take control of the magic coming out of the Sun, not controlling the Sun itself. (His first act as God might be to freeze Therinos, the Moon, and Moxen in a line for dramatic effect, and to ensure Moxen is in the right place for as long as it takes. At any rate it'll be a nice final boss backdrop without falling into the "amazing technicolor pocket dimension" trap.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I haven't seen The Prestige, but I've always heard it's good.

Without spoiling anything, Tesla has a mechanical machine that, though it is entirely mechanical and scientific, basically does something that could be said to be magic, or it might as well be. Seriously watch that movie (too many "must-watch" movies these days, huh? :smallwink:).


And that's basically correct, it's just that he needs to take control of the magic coming out of the Sun, not controlling the Sun itself. (His first act as God might be to freeze Therinos, the Moon, and Moxen in a line for dramatic effect, and to ensure Moxen is in the right place for as long as it takes. At any rate it'll be a nice final boss backdrop without falling into the "amazing technicolor pocket dimension" trap.

:smallconfused: His first act won't be rubbing it in his colleagues' faces? Not even:

"Hey Obsid, stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself!"
[as a mountain hits him repeatedly] "But you're hitting me!"

[Landis963]

:smallconfused: His first act won't be rubbing it in his colleagues' faces? Not even:

"Hey Obsid, stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself!"
[as a mountain hits him repeatedly] "But you're hitting me!"

The nexi of the four elemental cities are necessary elements of the ritual, because they are the few intact ones that Arrusif could find. The Minds inhabit their nexi for all intents and purposes (however, as mentioned, their influence is far greater and more extensive when plugged into one of the cities), so therefore, there's no reason to channel lots of power into their unprotected faces, no when that holds the risk of breaking them and ruining his efforts. He's basically filtering the raw magic of the sun through all of them, and then channeling it into himself. Besides, if all goes well, they won't be around, so why waste time gloating to a silent audience who's already gotten the point?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

The nexi of the four elemental cities are necessary elements of the ritual, because they are the few intact ones that Arrusif could find. The Minds inhabit their nexi for all intents and purposes (however, as mentioned, their influence is far greater and more extensive when plugged into one of the cities), so therefore, there's no reason to channel lots of power into their unprotected faces, no when that holds the risk of breaking them and ruining his efforts. He's basically filtering the raw magic of the sun through all of them, and then channeling it into himself. Besides, if all goes well, they won't be around, so why waste time gloating to a silent audience who's already gotten the point?

:smalleek:

I just had the most horrible image of all the Minds being burnt to re-death as their Nexi become mini-suns.

[Landis963]

:smalleek:

I just had the most horrible image of all the Minds being burnt to re-death as their Nexi become mini-suns.

This is why Arrusif is the villain. This is a happy side-effect, to his mind, of the procedure.

[Landis963]

Kellus of the Homebrew Design forum has created a highly interesting thread on Magitek, specifically with regards to creating self-sustaining systems. You can find it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252794) for your consideration. However, I'm not sure it fits into my world (although characters applying the scientific method to magic is one thing that should definitely go on in the background), if only because it has a huge emphasis on magic artifacts. Thoughts?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Kellus of the Homebrew Design forum has created a highly interesting thread on Magitek, specifically with regards to creating self-sustaining systems. You can find it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252794) for your consideration. However, I'm not sure it fits into my world (although characters applying the scientific method to magic is one thing that should definitely go on in the background), if only because it has a huge emphasis on magic artifacts. Thoughts?

It looks pretty cool (no time to fully look through it), but I wouldn't personally use it. I have my own magic system I prefer anyway.

I agree it doesn't fit Almantha too well, if only because Almanthan magic seems to be more mystical in nature than a pure science. Although there could be some sort of "mad scientist" the Minds are aware of who goes to insane lengths to mathematically pin down how magic works. If they could, they'd probably get together on Saturdays and eat popcorn while watching him try to command lava with algebra.

[Landis963]

It looks pretty cool (no time to fully look through it), but I wouldn't personally use it. I have my own magic system I prefer anyway.

I agree it doesn't fit Almantha too well, if only because Almanthan magic seems to be more mystical in nature than a pure science. Although there could be some sort of "mad scientist" the Minds are aware of who goes to insane lengths to mathematically pin down how magic works. If they could, they'd probably get together on Saturdays and eat popcorn while watching him try to command lava with algebra.

Ehh... I wouldn't call it "mystical" per se, just very straightforward and not too open for experimentation. Caster wants something to happen, and all of his element that he can control leaps to his command. Not too much you can experiment on that beyond "what counts as each element." There probably are some kind of "mad scientists" that act that way, but even if they calculate their hardest, they will be unable to cast other elements than the one they start with.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Ehh... I wouldn't call it "mystical" per se, just very straightforward and not too open for experimentation. Caster wants something to happen, and all of his element that he can control leaps to his command. Not too much you can experiment on that beyond "what counts as each element." There probably are some kind of "mad scientists" that act that way, but even if they calculate their hardest, they will be unable to cast other elements than the one they start with.

All "Proper" Mad Scientists would be Fire Mages. Better explosions that way. :smalltongue:

[Landis963]

*coughOminakIndustriescough*:smallwink:

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Anyhoo. Almanthan magic seemed mystical to me in the sense that it doesn't seem like there are people breaking it down into parts like science. Magic is. The Water Mages seem like they'd be the closest to actually studying the underlying mechanics of magic due to Aqua's University.

[Landis963]

Anyhoo. Almanthan magic seemed mystical to me in the sense that it doesn't seem like there are people breaking it down into parts like science. Magic is. The Water Mages seem like they'd be the closest to actually studying the underlying mechanics of magic due to Aqua's University.

I guess that makes sense. And technically, Aquacor University is just an institute of higher learning a la the Discworld Assassin's University. The Dekonio Practicum, by contrast, is closer to Ivy Tech or a vocational school than anything else.

[Landis963]

So, while trawling through TVtropes, I stumbled across my original inspiration on how to handle the magic system: The Codex Alera (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CodexAlera) series. If you read that page (here's hoping you have free time), you can see a lot of similarities, especially in that the main character Tavi is your average PC right down to the min-maxing. Some of the powers are switched around, sure (Among others, inducing lust is a mind-altering, and thus water-aligned spell, rather than earth-aligned as in the series) but the basic feel is there, and I'd like to think it'd pass legal.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

So, while trawling through TVtropes, I stumbled across my original inspiration on how to handle the magic system: The Codex Alera (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/CodexAlera) series. If you read that page (here's hoping you have free time), you can see a lot of similarities, especially in that the main character Tavi is your average PC right down to the min-maxing. Some of the powers are switched around, sure (Among others, inducing lust is a mind-altering, and thus water-aligned spell, rather than earth-aligned as in the series) but the basic feel is there, and I'd like to think it'd pass legal.

So...when mages cast they might be placing a part of their minds into the element and manipulating that? Sorry if I missed something.

Although that sort of casting means you could use another plot idea! A local mage has gone and tried to create some kind of permanent construct of magic (like a permanent fire wall or illusion that'll never fade). But when he tried it, all this did was create an Elemental who thinks it's the Mage since the original had to partition the part of his mind that cast the spell. A Freelancer group is needed to sort out the damages from their inevitable row.

Bonus points to the player who convinces them to make up and move in together. The first Almanthan sitcom is born.

[Landis963]

So...when mages cast they might be placing a part of their minds into the element and manipulating that? Sorry if I missed something.

:smallconfused: ehhh.... Sort of. That might be the sort of metaphor used to teach channeling to young kids, but that's not really how it works. Channeling happens by locking your mental focus onto a system of ley lines ("system" used here as in a physics textbook) and then warping that system to achieve what you want. And even then, it's not perfect; remember that Chain Lightning can go for the KillSat instead of arcing out Darth-Sidious-style.


Although that sort of casting means you could use another plot idea! A local mage has gone and tried to create some kind of permanent construct of magic (like a permanent fire wall or illusion that'll never fade). But when he tried it, all this did was create an Elemental who thinks it's the Mage since the original had to partition the part of his mind that cast the spell. A Freelancer group is needed to sort out the damages from their inevitable row.

Bonus points to the player who convinces them to make up and move in together. The first Almanthan sitcom is born.

... Man I wish that fit with how it worked. It could work a different way though: An Obsidian fire mage has been working on a "soul-copying" spell, to be placed in a flaming or illusory body to ostensibly serve as a confidant. However, he is instead working on immortality, by implanting his own copied soul into a well-preserved body (as in "blood still circulating" preserved, requiring the help of several water mages sworn to secrecy and paid quite a lot to remain so). This revenant took the place of the "confidant" once it was no longer needed, and when the fire-elemental confidant objected, the ensuing fight burned the house nearly to the ground. A group of low-level Freelancers was dispatched to the scene to subdue the fire-elemental copy and retrieve the procedure for the soul-copy spell (if there's an Imbue Intelligence spell, it would work this way) from the mage. Of course, the group has to figure out 1) which one the copy is (if the original's body is still recognizable, the revenant will of course claim that it (the body) is the copy, while the fire elemental will claim that the copy is the "living" body 2) where the procedure would be and how to read it, and 3) how to resolve everything to everyone's satisfaction without killing everybody.

[Landis963]

Bump to preserve. Don't reply - info within is being transferred to a Google doc, and a new thread will follow.

[Landis963]

Final bump. Don't expect new thread until Dec.