[PF] Free Traits and Game Balance

[Zubrowka74]

Hello!

I was wondering what would be a good number of free traits (Pathfinder Advanced Player Handbook) to give at first level ? I'm allowing trade of one feat for two traits. Any cheese / unbalance issues with these ?

[Wagadodo]

Well most Pathfinder games are assumed that players have at least two free traits. Usually one picked trait, and one campaign trait. There is a Feat, Additional Traits, that you can take in the Advanced Players Guide to give you an extra two traits. So two traits for one feat is good bench mark.

[CreganTur]

^This. The Advanced Player's Guide states that 2 traits are free at character development. The Extra Traits feat is nice, but as feat starved as most classes are, I could never justify the cost.

[Hylas]

In general feats at first level are the weakest because it's difficult to meet requirements, but any bonus feats may be used for get "feat taxes" for better feats, like combat expertise.

[Particle_Man]

Are you still following the "only one trait from each category of traits" rule?

[Zubrowka74]

Yes, only one trait from each category. Also, my french edition of the book states that the number of traits at character creation is decided by the DM, hence my question. I don't know if it 's a translation thing or whatnot.

I was going for only one starting trait but I like the idea of having one chosen by the DM.... Muahahahaha!

[mikau013]

IIRC:

The +2 caster lvl (max your hitdice) is nice for classes like paladins which have a lower caster level baseline, or if you're multi classing.

The other one I'd take is the one that boosts your init.

Possibly useful are these 2: +1 to a knowledge skill and 3 spells gain +1 caster level
-5% crafting costs.

That is it for useful traits I think?

[Keneth]

Yes, the number of traits allowed is chosen by the DM. I usually allow players to take any traits they like as long as they can build a coherent and unique story around them. If the concept is farfetched, then the idea is vetoed.

Standard practice however is two traits which amount to an extra feat at first level. Strong but generally nothing too overpowered.

[CreganTur]

Traits came in handy for my magus. The +2 concentration trait was really nice (total concentration of 16 on that character- took a lot of feats) and the diplomacy as class skill trait was perfect for my backstory.

[CTrees]

IIRC:

The +2 caster lvl (max your hitdice) is nice for classes like paladins which have a lower caster level baseline, or if you're multi classing.

The other one I'd take is the one that boosts your init.

Possibly useful are these 2: +1 to a knowledge skill and 3 spells gain +1 caster level
-5% crafting costs.

That is it for useful traits I think?

There are a few situational ones, but Magical Lineage is a major standout. Metamagic reducers tend to be very good, and in combination with +0 spell level metamagic feats, it'll drop spells into lower level slots. Including turning certain first level spells into cantrips.

[Novawurmson]

Two traits is fairly standard.

I especially like the traits that are just "+1 to a skill and now it's a class skill." I want this Druid to be sneaky, so there's stealth as a class skill; I want this Monk to be good at calming emotions in a tight situation, so there's Diplomacy as a class skill; I want this Ranger to be agile and athletic, so there's Acrobatics as a class skill.

Watch out for Rich Parents, which is a little overpowered for first level if they don't just buy RP-related gear.

[That_guy_there]

Watch out for Rich Parents, which is a little overpowered for first level if they don't just buy RP-related gear.

Agreed, but also be aware of the "heirloom Weapon" trait from the Pathfinder Companion Adventurer's Armory. It lets a PC have a MAsterworked weapon for the base price, a +1 trait bonus to attak with that specific weapon and are concidered proficient with that specific weapon (but not other weapons of the same type if you do not have the proper proficencies.

Otherwise the 2 for a feat thing sounds good.

[Ravens_cry]

Magical Knack is also great for gishes who want to use damage dealing spells.
I intend to use it with a Primal-Draconic Crossblooded Sorcerer/Rogue/ Arcane Trickster.
I may not have many different spells, but things go boom with the ones I have.

[WildPyre]

Agreed, but also be aware of the "heirloom Weapon" trait from the Pathfinder Companion Adventurer's Armory. It lets a PC have a MAsterworked weapon for the base price, a +1 trait bonus to attak with that specific weapon and are concidered proficient with that specific weapon (but not other weapons of the same type if you do not have the proper proficencies.

Otherwise the 2 for a feat thing sounds good.

Actually this seems to have been DRASTICLY changed on the SRD, and I have to say I'm not fond of the new version. Heirloom weapon was fun to take on somebody not normally known for using weapons, such as my wizard walking around with a fancy bastard sword.

New version here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/heirloom-weapon)

[That_guy_there]

Actually this seems to have been DRASTICLY changed on the SRD, and I have to say I'm not fond of the new version. Heirloom weapon was fun to take on somebody not normally known for using weapons, such as my wizard walking around with a fancy bastard sword.

New version here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/equipment-traits/heirloom-weapon)
Thanks for pointing that out Wildpyre...

Ah... well that kinda depowers it a bit... See what happens when you don't get the errata...? :smalltongue:

I happen to like the older version but wanted to point out that combo-ing it with rich parents had the potential for all kinds of headaches.

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, it only really makes a difference if your playing a game intended to start and end at level 1-3 or super low wealth. In which case you would probably ban it anyway. The nice thing about it is that it means you can start with gear you can improve into magical gear later. It kind of sucks to have to discard your trusty blade you had since level one since it can't be made magical since it's not masterwork.
Though as an alternative, there is a spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/masterwork-transformation) that turns a non-masterwork weapon masterwork.
I thought it was very cool when I saw that. It's practically just a fluff spell, but it's a nice one nonetheless.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Eh, it only really makes a difference if your playing a game intended to start and end at level 1-3 or super low wealth. In which case you would probably ban it anyway. The nice thing about it is that it means you can start with gear you can improve into magical gear later. It kind of sucks to have to discard your trusty blade you had since level one since it can't be made magical since it's not masterwork.
Though as an alternative, there is a spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/m/masterwork-transformation) that turns a non-masterwork weapon masterwork.
I thought it was very cool when I saw that. It's practically just a fluff spell, but it's a nice one nonetheless.

Masterwork Transformation + caster upgrading the weapon on an Heirloom guisarme means a permanent +2 bonus on trip checks with the guisarme. Pretty good, but not overpowered. Pre-errata, no bonus on trip, but you can get a spiked chain without taking a feat.

Rich Parents means you can get a chain shirt or breastplate without significantly cutting into resources. Carry most of it as platinum and get full plate sooner than normal.

[Ravens_cry]

Which I am not seen too much problem with personally.

[Hiro Protagonest]

...Dammit. They nerfed spiked chains. Now you have to spend a feat to wield any weapon not from some primitive or western medieval society, and a few that are (bastard sword, I'm looking at you), without getting any significant benefits, meaning that EWP is now nothing more than a flavor feat.

[Marnath]

...Dammit. They nerfed spiked chains. Now you have to spend a feat to wield any weapon not from some primitive or western medieval society, and a few that are (bastard sword, I'm looking at you), without getting any significant benefits, meaning that EWP is now nothing more than a flavor feat.

It wasn't already? :smalltongue:

[Hiro Protagonest]

It wasn't already? :smalltongue:

It mostly was, but Minotaur Greathammer and Spiked Chain (and pre-errata Talenta Sharrash) make it like Shock Trooper, not that powerful unless you utilize a specific part of it, except Shock Trooper is still good fun for bull rushers without using Heedless Charge.