Protections against Mage's Disjunction

[Dire Reverend]

Link to the spell for reference. (http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/SRD:Mage%27s_Disjunction)

Anyways my character is all decked out in magic items, and I am afraid that either my party members or my DM will eventually cast Mage's Disjunction, possibly ruining most of my gear.

How does one protect themselves against Mage's Disjunction?

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Wings of cover, contingency

[Dire Reverend]

What if you lacked the ability to cast Contingency yourself? While my character has a lot of magic items, he has no spellcasting ability himself.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Ring of Spell Battle (magic of faerun)?

[Hirax]

Ring of Spell Battle (magic of faerun)?

It's most recent appearance is in the Magic Item Compendium. Things like this are pretty much the only defense against disjunction, reactive things that allow you to redirect it or get out of its way. Wizards converted some epic destinies to 3.5 (reposted here (http://lonelygm.blogspot.com/2011/02/epic-destinies-for-d-35pathfinder.html) because Wizards' site no longer has the article), and one of them protects your items from disjunction at level 24.

[Keld Denar]

Friends don't let friends play with Disjunction.

The best thing I can think about would be a Ring of Greater Counterspells from your choice of the DMGII and the MIC. Have an ally load it with Disjunction, and have some ranks and bonuses to spellcraft and that should counter 2-3 Disjunctions per dayish.

[Dire Reverend]

Friends don't let friends play with Disjunction.

The best thing I can think about would be a Ring of Greater Counterspells from your choice of the DMGII and the MIC. Have an ally load it with Disjunction, and have some ranks and bonuses to spellcraft and that should counter 2-3 Disjunctions per dayish.

Mage's Disjunction is a level 9 spell. Greater Counterspells goes up to 6th level.

[ericgrau]

Barring some super contingency immunity trick: High will save. Alternatively high caster level items so that their will save is high and can be used in place of your save. Items get 2 + CL on all their saves. For a sword of life stealing or a +5 weapon (if no one in your party can/will cast GMW).

Dips into high will prcs could also help. Sorc 1 / dragon-disciple 4 gives +4 will save more than poor-will-class 6. 3 BAB but a +4 strength to make up for it on top of a d12 HD and 2 AC.

A party member with protection from spells gives +3 to saves more than a +5 cloak would give you. Confirm with the DM to make sure disjunction doesn't dispel it before it provides the benefit vs. disjunction (rather than dispelling it afterwards).

[Master Arminas]

It is expensive, but here goes: purchase a fully-charge ring of three wishes. Put it on and make the following wish:

"I wish that the next time I am affected by the spell Mage's Disjunction that I successfully save for all of the magic items which I am wearing or carrying on my person."

Wish can ensure that your at successful at any saving throw, regardless of DC. There is no time limit to wish. If you are affected, you auto-save and none of your items are disjoined (including the ring). On your next action, take out the ring, put it on, and repeat.

Master Arminas

[Ernir]

Can the Ring of Spell-battle redirect MDJ? That function of the ring refers to "target"...

Anyways, I recommend you power up your Will Save. Unless you're fighting non-humanoid spellcasters or some crap like Tainted Scholars, the save DC isn't likely to be higher than in the low-mid thirties. You can get there. Also, get rerolls and/or don't fail saves on a 1.
Losing your buff stack is likely to cost you the fight regardless, but I'd still try this. :smalltongue:

Also, MDJ is usually best cast from a scroll (much less likely to fry loot that way). Make sure your party member knows this.

What if you lacked the ability to cast Contingency yourself? While my character has a lot of magic items, he has no spellcasting ability himself.
You can get crafted Contingencies from someone with the Craft Contingent Spell (Complete Arcane) feat.

The feat is broken as hell, though.

[Dire Reverend]

Just to make sure, a caster inside his own Antimagic Field cannot cast magic, right? Because all of these fancy rings and such won't do crap if he just casts antimagic field, then Mage's Disjunction.

[Andion Isurand]

I brewed a spell years ago that would help with this. Let me know what you think. Never actually used it however.


Time Skip
Transmutation [Time]
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: None
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature or object (10 cu ft./level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

The subject of this spell traverses time to the immediate future, leaving the time stream just long enough to avoid a single attack, spell, spell-like ability, effect or other occurrence of which you are aware, as it is performed or cast, leaving just before any results are known, and returning just after they would have been. Using this spell to prevent a creature or object from becoming a target of an effect, does not prevent that effect from being expended as normal. From all points of view, the skip itself is not perceived. (except to a creature under the effect of time stop, or if the subject's position changes -- see below)
This moment's absence does not help the subject to avoid being affected by any previously existing effects and conditions, or by area effects with a duration greater than instantaneous.
If the space the subject departed from is occupied (or under the effect of antimagic) upon its return to the time stream, it appears in the closest unoccupied space, in its original orientation. If necessary, determine the closest space randomly. This would likely occur when this spell is used to prevent the subject from crushed or buried under a creature and/or objects, and possibly other situations.
If this spell is cast in response to a time stop spell cast by another, the subject of this spell is absent for the "apparent time" given to the recipient of time stop, and avoids all the results of what is done during this "duration", so long as those results could normally be avoided by using this spell.

[Dire Reverend]

While that's a nice spell, it does nothing to help in this situation, mainly because my character cannot cast spells.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Just to make sure, a caster inside his own Antimagic Field cannot cast magic, right? Because all of these fancy rings and such won't do crap if he just casts antimagic field, then Mage's Disjunction.Normally a caster can't cast spells inside an AMF. There are some exceptions, but i want to believe that your DM will not want to use them to create an unavoidable disjunction against his players.

[Andion Isurand]

If you want to help prevent yourself from rolling a natural 1 on your save, take the Planar Touchstone feat (Catalogues of Enlightenment) to gain the Pride Domain power.

Granted Powers: Whenever you roll a 1 on a saving throw you may immediately reroll the save. You must keep the result of the second roll, even if it results in the roll of another 1.

[Ernir]

Just to make sure, a caster inside his own Antimagic Field cannot cast magic, right? Because all of these fancy rings and such won't do crap if he just casts antimagic field, then Mage's Disjunction.

There is at least a couple of ways (Invoke Magic, a 9th level spell, and the Initiate of Mystra feat) to cast inside an AMF.

But an AMF works as a buffer against MDJ (unless that 1%/CL chance kicks in), so being inside an AMF isn't all that bad when an MDJ hits. As long as you can get out again ASAP.

[Dire Reverend]

Would Limited Wish be able to do the 3x wish effect "The next Mage Disjunction spell that targets person X causes no damage to the magic items he is carrying"
Because Limited Wish can make someone automatically hit something.

[Cruiser1]

While my character has a lot of magic items, he has no spellcasting ability himself.
Mage's Disjunction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm) is a burst (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area) spell. That means it doesn't affect people or items with total cover in the area when it goes off. If you're behind a tower shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#shieldTower) which provides total cover, you and most of your items aren't affected (although the shield itself should still be). Even easier is to wear non-magical gear over your magic gear, so you get the benefits of your gear but it doesn't have LoS to the Disjunction. Doing that also protects your magic items from being temporarily turned off by (Chain) Dispel Magic.

If you have a readied action, or can do an immediate action through some maneuver or spell buff given to you by an allied caster, you can as an immediate action move out of the area of effect or get behind total cover in response to Disjunction being cast on an area you're within.

[Rubik]

If you have a tinfoil hat on and have a magic weapon or a psicrystal or raven familiar, have it ready the command word for the hat to protect you whenever you're about to be subjected to something nasty.

Yes, like a Disjunction.

[Dire Reverend]

...Tinfoil hat?

[Rubik]

...Tinfoil hat?Either you or the party mage should cast Shrink Item on a cone, dome, or box large enough for you to fit inside. Wear it as a hat.

[Shadowleaf]

Either you or the party mage should cast Shrink Item on a cone, dome, or box large enough for you to fit inside. Wear it as a hat.I'm fairly certain that wouldn't work. I think you're thinking of the defense against Anti-Magic (i.e. having a permanently shrunken Tinfoil/lead hat which expands in an Anti-Magic due to no longer being shrunken, thus protecting you from it).

[Rubik]

I'm fairly certain that wouldn't work. I think you're thinking of the defense against Anti-Magic (i.e. having a permanently shrunken Tinfoil/lead hat which expands in an Anti-Magic due to no longer being shrunken, thus protecting you from it).Yes, and what happens if you have a familiar or trained parakeet or whatever readying the command word to expand your hat whenever a Disjunction would otherwise hit you?

[jaybird]

That ToB counter that lets you substitute your Concentration check to Will save?

[Rubik]

That ToB counter that lets you substitute your Concentration check to Will save?It works, but only for one save. So save the save-replacer for the one item you REALLY don't want to go down.

[Shadowleaf]

Yes, and what happens if you have a familiar or trained parakeet or whatever readying the command word to expand your hat whenever a Disjunction would otherwise hit you?.. Actually, reading over Disjunction, you might be right RAW-wise, but it seems very iffy.
We're in dunking head to regain HP RAW-right territory, though, if you're right.
Since you gain full cover (and thus cannot be affected by the burst spell, as per the spell area effect rules), you are not affected by the Disjunction. One would think your hat would be hit, but seeing as it's a worn item (and the wearer has full cover), I'm not 100% sure.

But, other than that, I'm not sure how you'd get a magic item to unshrink as a Free Action without having your sidekick cast some sort of Dispel.

[Rubik]

.. Actually, reading over Disjunction, you might be right RAW-wise, but it seems very iffy. Not really. You're under full cover, which blocks AoEs, which a Disjunction is.


We're in dunking head to regain HP RAW-right territory, though, if you're right.
Since you gain full cover (and thus cannot be affected by the burst spell, as per the spell area effect rules), you are not affected by the Disjunction. One would think your hat would be hit, but seeing as it's a worn item (and the wearer has full cover), I'm not 100% sure. But it's not strapped to your head. You WERE wearing it, but as of the expansion, it's now covering your space instead.


But, other than that, I'm not sure how you'd get a magic item to unshrink as a Free Action without having your sidekick cast some sort of Dispel.Note the spell has a password you can attach to it. Someone calls the password, the item unshrinks.

Though looking over it it looks like only a familiar (or psicrystal, I guess) could do it, given the phrasing.


Shrink Item
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
Duration: One day/level; see text
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object’s size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell.

Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster.I believe familiars are considered part of the wizard that cast the spell, so...

And I KNOW psicrystals are.

[Wings of Peace]

Would a two-way mirror hamster ball work?

[Dire Reverend]

Would a two-way mirror hamster ball work?

Two-way mirror? I think they call those windows.

Also a hamster ball would suck for someone who uses a sword.

[eggs]

Two-way mirror? I think they call those windows.
:smalleek:
I think you live in a scary and paranoia-inducing place.

[TuggyNE]

:smalleek:
I think you live in a scary and paranoia-inducing place.

What, a house, not a basement?

[Wings of Peace]

Two-way mirror? I think they call those windows.

Also a hamster ball would suck for someone who uses a sword.

I was thinking of the police variety. Darkening the inside of the sphere shouldn't be hard

.

[charcoalninja]

Familiar or cohort with an item boosting spellcraft and a readied action to activate a cube of force when Disjunction is cast. Blocks LOE so Disjunction doesn't work.

Easiest is just using a towershield and a readied action, but cube of force works too. Disjunction even kills the cube of force so you don't have to take it down and thus don't lose any actions.

[Rubik]

I was thinking of the police variety. Darkening the inside of the sphere shouldn't be hard

.That's a one-way mirror, buddy-boy.

As stated, the two-way ones are windows. :smalltongue:

[Curmudgeon]

That's a one-way mirror, buddy-boy.

As stated, the two-way ones are windows. :smalltongue:
Huh? That doesn't make sense. If it reflects on both sides it's a two-way mirror. If it reflects on zero sides it's a window.

[Rubik]

Huh? That doesn't make sense. If it reflects on both sides it's a two-way mirror. If it reflects on zero sides it's a window.One-way mirrors (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/one-way+mirror) only let you see through them one way. Two-way mirrors? Well, let's just say they're a bit more user-friendly on the back end.

[Dr Bwaa]

Friends don't let friends play with Disjunction.

Frankly I think this is the only real answer. As a DM I always tell players up-front, as they near level 15 or so, my rule about Disjunction: I get to use it once per time the PCs use it. In my opinion, the Big D should only come out for really saving-the-world-critical situations; it's right up alongside heroic self-sacrifice in terms of severity in my book.

[Curmudgeon]

One-way mirrors (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/one-way+mirror) only let you see through them one way. Two-way mirrors? Well, let's just say they're a bit more user-friendly on the back end.
That's a one-way window, actually. A one-way mirror may be mounted on a wall, or it could be the same thing as a one-way window; you can't tell from the name. A two-way window is pretty user-friendly from both directions. :smallwink: A two-way mirror is what apparel stores place standing amidst the jackets, hats, & c. so two customers can check out how they look at the same time.

[Soulean]

Casting an MDJ is like setting off a nuke. Everyone loses.

Celerity/any spell that blocks line of effect/sight will save the entire party. If your DM is throwing out MDJ then imo you should feel free to use the insanity that is celerity to defend yourself.

Also of the 4 times my various DMs have used MDJ I have only been hit by it once. Being far away can be your best personal defense. As a non caster you probably have fewer buffs running so you are a less attractive target.

The tower shield idea is good...but you'd have to give up your standard action to do it. If your ally is trying to nuke your items then this will work no problem. If it's your enemy you have no idea when he'll cast his spell.

The hat idea is brilliant. If only you could have the hat be normally small instead of large. MDJ goes off, readied action cast spell to enlarge hat, MDJ hits hat restoring it to its original size. For style points catch hat in midair and do a quick jig.

[Rubik]

The tower shield idea is good...but you'd have to give up your standard action to do it. If your ally is trying to nuke your items then this will work no problem. If it's your enemy you have no idea when he'll cast his spell. Collar of perpetual attendance. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) Have your unseen servant ready actions to move right in front of the caster with a Small dark wood tower shield.

[Duke of Urrel]

I found this forum while searching for some clarification on the rules of the Mage's Disjunction spell. Very clever and interesting!

I would like to add one suggestion that nobody else proposed: the Polymorph Any Object spell. Cast it on a magic item, change it into something else, such as a small creature or a small, non-magical object, and it's not a magic item anymore, is it? That should protect it against disjunction. Of course, the secondary effect of the Mage's Disjunction spell is either certainly or probably to dispel the Polymorph Any Object spell, so this is a defense that works only once. Also, you can't use your magic item as a magic item while it is polymorphed.

I have an ulterior motive: to pursue that "certainly or probably" question, which is what drew me to this forum in the first place. I will ask this question on a new thread, if I may.

[Venusaur]

According to Wikipedia, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_mirror) one way mirrors and two way mirrors are the same thing.

[Raendyn]

Players guide to Faerun p 120

Spellblades. you are immune to one spell while holding the blade.

use DJ ... win... period

[Rubik]

Players guide to Faerun p 120

Spellblades. you are immune to one spell while holding the blade.

use DJ ... win... periodIsn't that against a targeted spell only?

[kardar233]

Isn't that against a targeted spell only?

Correct. That's why I carry mine targeted for Reaving Dispel.

[Rubik]

Correct. That's why I carry mine targeted for Reaving Dispel.If you invest in some moneymancy you could have a braidblade, elbow blades, knee blades, boot blades, and any number of other weapons to give you immunity to a wide variety of effects. Remember that most magic items have low CLs, so make sure you're immune to Dispel and Greater Dispel!

[ben-zayb]

I would like to add one suggestion that nobody else proposed: the Polymorph Any Object spell.
Unfortunately, it is explicitly stated that the spell doesn't work on magic items. Welcome to the playground, btw! :smallbiggrin:

As already suggested, tin hats (ridiculous as they look IC-wise) and a lot of spells (Wings of Cover, Celerity, Contingency, Etc) could foil MDJ directly.

If the DM is lenient enough, perhaps a custom slotted item that activates/triggers Wings of Cover. Should be cheap, since it's a level 2 spell after all. There are other spells that might help contingency-wise: walls, resilient spheres, teleportation spells (heck, even the humble Benign Transposition on your familiar/summon would do the trick)

[Rubik]

Unfortunately, it is explicitly stated that the spell doesn't work on magic items.Dispel them first. They're then temporarily nonmagical.

[Duke of Urrel]

Thank you all for the helpful comments! I thought that this thread was long dead and cold.

My Polymorph Any Object suggestion was just off the top of my head. I should have looked at the rules first.

[Psyren]

According to Wikipedia, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_mirror) one way mirrors and two way mirrors are the same thing.

Actually, they simply merged the articles to prevent confusion/ambiguity. this flamewar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:One-way_mirror#One-way_vs._Two-way_mirror) suggests that one-way mirror is the correct term.

[TuggyNE]

I thought that this thread was long dead and cold.

Er, it was. >_>

[Raendyn]

As already suggested, tin hats (ridiculous as they look IC-wise) and a lot of spells (Wings of Cover, Celerity, Contingency, Etc) could foil MDJ directly.

If the DM is lenient enough, perhaps a custom slotted item that activates/triggers Wings of Cover. Should be cheap, since it's a level 2 spell after all. There are other spells that might help contingency-wise: walls, resilient spheres, teleportation spells (heck, even the humble Benign Transposition on your familiar/summon would do the trick)

how does WoCover stop DJ? spell states that against AoE spells it just gives bonus AC and Reflex...

[TheDon]

Could someone make a spellcraft check (say, through ring of spell-battle), Cast celerity and high tail it out of there with teleport? Come back when the dazed effect is over. Doesn't really help the cleric thought...

[Ernir]

how does WoCover stop DJ? spell states that against AoE spells it just gives bonus AC and Reflex...
Wings of Cover grant Total Cover, IIRC, and MDJ is a burst spell. Bursts do not affect targets with Total Cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area).

Could someone make a spellcraft check (say, through ring of spell-battle), Cast celerity and high tail it out of there with teleport? Come back when the dazed effect is over. Doesn't really help the cleric thought...
Yes, that should work.

[nedz]

According to Wikipedia, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_mirror) one way mirrors and two way mirrors are the same thing.Actually, they simply merged the articles to prevent confusion/ambiguity. this flamewar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:One-way_mirror#One-way_vs._Two-way_mirror) suggests that one-way mirror is the correct term.

I think you may have stumbled into an obscure difference between different dialects of English, possible ones which occur either side of a large pond like entity.

Perhaps we should have a flame war about the correct pronunciation of Tomato?