A question on carrying capacity

[King Atticus]

So I have a question when it comes to CC. Could you consider it a strength check? I know it doesn't specifically say it's a check and you don't roll dice for it...but I was hoping. I'm playing a Factotum and am trying to use Brains over Brawn to get past an annoyingly low CC by adding my int mod to it :smallbiggrin:, my thinking being that maybe he knows how to pack things in such a way as to be more correctly distributed and therefor easier to carry.

I realize this is cheesy but I ran it by my DM and he wasn't against it outright, he was just wanting to know what the consensus from the forum might be before he decides one way or the other. So brothers and sisters of the Playground I come humbly before you asking for your thoughts and interpretation of the rules.


Encumbrance by Weight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm)
If you want to determine whether your character’s gear is heavy enough to slow him or her down more than the armor already does, total the weight of all the character’s items, including armor, weapons, and gear. Compare this total to the character’s Strength on Table: Carrying Capacity. Depending on how the weight compares to the character’s carrying capacity, he or she may be carrying a light, medium, or heavy load. Like armor, a character’s load affects his or her maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, carries a check penalty (which works like an armor check penalty), reduces the character’s speed, and affects how fast the character can run, as shown on Table: Carrying Loads. A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor. Carrying a light load does not encumber a character.

As always all responses are appreciated

[Namfuak]

Replacing the capacity with intellect probably does not make sense (since there is only so much you can do with a set amount of weight), but maybe you could add your int modifier to your total strength in order to determine your carrying capacity? IE, 12 strength plus 18 int (+4)= carrying capacity of a character with 16 strength.

[Keld Denar]

Sadly, this will not work. It's not a check, its just a reference the the straight score.

That said, put that int to use and work smarter, not harder. Get an ally to carry all of your non-weapons and armor gear. Get extradimensional space. Lots of options, if you are smart.

[Douglas]

I know it doesn't specifically say it's a check and you don't roll dice for it...
By the Rules As Written, that's already all you need to know to determine the answer.

If you don't roll dice, then it's not a check. If you do roll dice but it isn't called a check at least once somewhere in its rules text, then it's not a check. End of discussion. There is no wiggle room for interpretation on this one.

With that said, allowing Brains Over Brawn to apply to carrying capacity would be a possibly reasonable house rule. You'd have to work out exactly how the ability applies - add modifier to CC, add modifier to effective strength, add modifier to effective strength modifier, something else? - but that's not much of a problem and a boost to CC is not likely to make a significant power difference (aside from Hulking Hurler shenanigans).

[JoeYounger]

If you're pf friendly you can pick up the muleback cord for 1000 gold that treats your str as 8 higher for determining cc.

[King Atticus]

...but maybe you could add your int modifier to your total strength in order to determine your carrying capacity? IE, 12 strength plus 18 int (+4)= carrying capacity of a character with 16 strength.


With that said, allowing Brains Over Brawn to apply to carrying capacity would be a possibly reasonable house rule. You'd have to work out exactly how the ability applies - add modifier to CC, add modifier to effective strength

This sounds like a really fair house rule. I new it wasn't RAW but I had to give it a try. :smallbiggrin:


Get an ally to carry all of your non-weapons and armor gear.

Unfortunately my character has been screwed over by everybody his entire life and as a result he is extremely paranoid, I don't think he'd trust other people with his goodies.


If you're pf friendly you can pick up the muleback cord for 1000 gold that treats your str as 8 higher for determining cc.

We've never used anything from Pathfinder but that's a pretty hot item. I'll have to get it allowed. The way I see it, it's my job to keep asking for things and it's my DM's job to say no. I never self-edit an idea like this just because we've never used it before. :smallwink:

[Rejusu]

Mule: 8GP
Handy Haversack/Bag of Holding I: 2,000-2,500GP

Any one of those will work. A bag of holding is the optimal solution but a mule is cheap. They're also all Core if you can't get PF items allowed. And a mule is easier to obtain than a magic item in most cases.

Plus all of those things will give you a lot more carrying capability than that PF item. A bag of holding will get you carry 250lb in a 15lb bag. And 250lb is a heavy load for a character with 18 strength. Not to mention that a mule or a bag of holding will give you character the ability to carry awkwardly sized items without problem. Remember that even if your character is strong enough to lift something that doesn't mean they can carry it around with them without issue.

Things like 10ft ladders for example can be stored in a bag of holding, but don't expect your DM to let you run around a dungeon with one strapped to your back.

[hydraa]

For a little bit of help in arms and equipment there is a framed packed that lets you take 10% off the encumbrance of it and anything in it for 50 gp and it effectively weighs .2 lbs less than a normal backpack. It is however a full-round to withdraw anything

[Daftendirekt]

I would never allow this. How the hell does being smarter help you carry more ****? It makes no goddamn sense. If you want to carry more, get a higher strength score and quit whining.

{{scrubbed}}

[King Atticus]

Mule: 8GP
Handy Haversack/Bag of Holding I: 2,000-2,500GP

Any one of those will work. A bag of holding is the optimal solution but a mule is cheap. They're also all Core if you can't get PF items allowed. And a mule is easier to obtain than a magic item in most cases.


I have a horse that I'm using but Bag of Holding type items are really rare in my DM's world so you can't buy them and have to hope you can pick one off an enemy. We're level 7 and there has only been 1 in the campaign so far.


I would never allow this. How the hell does being smarter help you carry more ****? It makes no goddamn sense. If you want to carry more, get a higher strength score and quit whining.

Or, as Rejusu so intelligently pointed out... buy a pack animal or a magical bag. Your character would be smart enough to do that, even if you aren't.

I'm not whining, I'm problem solving. Not once on this thread have you seen me say my DM is out to get me by forcing me to carry my own stuff. That would be as ridiculous, I'm just trying to work with what I've got and explore all my options.

Just chill out, that response was disproportionately hostile to a simple question.

[Coidzor]

I have a horse that I'm using but Bag of Holding type items are really rare in my DM's world so you can't buy them and have to hope you can pick one off an enemy. We're level 7 and there has only been 1 in the campaign so far.

What an ass. I'm sorry mate. :/


Unfortunately my character has been screwed over by everybody his entire life and as a result he is extremely paranoid, I don't think he'd trust other people with his goodies.

How do you guys feel about Psionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm)? Don't trust people? Make them into your mindslaves. Name them all Steeeeve. Go nuts for a 1 level dip into Psion(Telepath), the practiced manifester feat, and 1 level of the Thrallherd PrC.

[King Atticus]

How do you guys feel about Psionics (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/thrallherd.htm)? Don't trust people? Make them into your mindslaves. Name them all Steeeeve. Go nuts for a 1 level dip into Psion(Telepath), the practiced manifester feat, and 1 level of the Thrallherd PrC.

Yeah, I'm doing something like that but it'll take a quite a bit longer. I'm going Mindbender so eventually I'll have my thrall...good times :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

Yeah, I'm doing something like that but it'll take a quite a bit longer. I'm going Mindbender so eventually I'll have my thrall...good times :smallbiggrin:

How many levels in are you going into Mindbender?

[inexorabletruth]

I can intelligently pack a lot of stuff into one suitcase, but I'm not smart enough to intellectually adjust it's mass. I'm sure that you'll need magic to make items seem lighter than they actually are.

Try a pack animal (really cheap, and helpful in a fight if you train them), tensor's floating disk (easy enough to get a scroll), or a wheelbarrow (cart) if the DM isn't allowing Bag's of Holding.

Of course, if you really want a Handy Haversack, hire a caster/crafter to make you one. The DM can't stop that without throwing RAW out the window. But if he does, talk the caster in your group into taking Craft Wondrous Item and have him make it. If you're the caster, then what are you waiting for? Crafter casters are one of the most overlooked and underestimated characters in the game, imho.

Fun Fact:
BTW, has anyone ever wondered why Bag's of Holding have a volume/weight limit as well as a tear/break factor whereas mundane bags do not? In 3E all packs had a Break limit on their weight. But in 3.5, by RAW, I could store a dozen elephants in one mundane bag and lug that mess around the whole dang campaign if I felt like it, as long as I had the STR to carry it. What happened to that rule? Did it make too much sense, or just too much math?

[King Atticus]

How many levels in are you going into Mindbender?

Eventually...all of it.

My character concept is mostly about skills, I'm not optimizing to break him for combat but he's crazy skillful.

Factotum/Mindbender2/Assassin1/Exemplar10/Mindbender8

Campaign supposed to go a ways into Epic. This character is all about a certain flavor, I'm sacrificing power to play a type of character I've never tried before. He's the only evil member of a good aligned party but he isn't stupid evil. He will play nice with anyone until they cross him and then he'll stalk them and kill them (and their families) when they are most vulnerable. He's all about biding his time, ensuring his own survival and exacting revenge when it is in his own best interest.My DM is going to slowly grant me the powers of the Shade template as he progresses. I've named him Amon Durcha which roughly translated is "the one who hides in the dark".

This is my first primarily RP character...I know the build is far from optimized, but so far I love it.

I won't get my thrall until right towards end of the campaign though.

To be perfectly honest the whole point of this thread is less out of true necessity and more about convenience. I'm trying to get around having to constantly check my weight to see that I can still walk normally. I'm working towards getting a Tooth of Savnok (ToM 79) so I can move at normal speed when carrying all the way up to a heavy load. I also have a Talisman of the Disk for the times I need to carry something especially heavy. But the higher I can get my CC the less I need to worry about it.

[Heatwizard]

I would never allow this. How the hell does being smarter help you carry more ****? It makes no goddamn sense. If you want to carry more, get a higher strength score and quit whining.

How does it make you trip people better? Alternatively, how does being smart and knowing how to wiggle your fingers make you shoot a ball of fire? No wait, better question: why get so wound up over carrying capacity?


There may be a bit of unintended wisdom to extract out of that post, though; If you can afford the next stage of STR-boosting item, that'll give you a little extra space. If you don't have any, well, now's a good time.

[King Atticus]

There may be a bit of unintended wisdom to extract out of that post, though; If you can afford the next stage of STR-boosting item, that'll give you a little extra space. If you don't have any, well, now's a good time.

True enough, unfortunately the area we are currently in is mostly small villages so items to buy are restricted to less than 1000gp so we're dependent on the spoils of war for our larger items. Eventually this will not be the case but it could be a couple of levels.

[Thurbane]

A couple a magic items that directly affect your carrying capacity:

Belt of the Wide Earth (MIC) doubles CC
Tooth of Savnok (ToM) allows you to ignore movement penalties from a medium or heavy load, pretty much as a Dwarf does.

Just read your limit on buying items...

[Agent 451]

If items from Dragon magazines are allowed you can also check out the Dragonskin Bag of Grendel, it's in #329. It shrinks items to 1/16th (ah, the lovely Imperial system) of their size, but not mass. It holds 1500 lbs if I remember correctly, and can be placed inside of a bag of holding since it isn't a non-dimensional space.

[King Atticus]

Belt of the Wide Earth (MIC) doubles CC



If items from Dragon magazines are allowed you can also check out the Dragonskin Bag of Grendel, it's in #329.

Thanks guys, I'd never heard of either of these!


Just read your limit on buying items

No worries brutha, that was a great suggestion that I'm keeping in mind for down the road.

[Strormer]

Given the nature of DND I think it would be completely fair to use the add Int modifier to Str score to determine effective CC, but I would make it a feat since it's not something one could do without working at it, which would most likely be too much of an investment on your part if you have a specific plan for your character build, still worth mentioning.

[Rejusu]

I would never allow this. How the hell does being smarter help you carry more ****? It makes no goddamn sense. If you want to carry more, get a higher strength score and quit whining.

Or, as Rejusu so intelligently pointed out... buy a pack animal or a magical bag. Your character would be smart enough to do that, even if you aren't.

First off, quit it with the confrontational and insulting attitude.

Secondly, while it's true that intelligence doesn't increase your strength it can help in making better use of the strength you have. Ever heard how you should lift with your legs/knees? That's because the muscles in your legs are a lot stronger than those in your back. This isn't something we know instinctively though so people have to be taught the proper technique for lifting.

That's just one example of where intelligence can help you lift more. As for being able to carry more, there's something called "weight distribution", you may want to look up.

[King Atticus]

Given the nature of DND I think it would be completely fair to use the add Int modifier to Str score to determine effective CC, but I would make it a feat since it's not something one could do without working at it

That's a good point and would also be a fair house-rule.


, which would most likely be too much of an investment on your part if you have a specific plan for your character build, still worth mentioning.

This is also, unfortunately, very accurate. Since this is a convenience issue for me, at this cost I would probably skip it. Thanks for the input.

[Coidzor]

That reminds me. Potentially relevant point brought up in another thread.


Weight includes Volume in 3.5. So if you wanted actual weight reduce all weights by 3/4th to 1/2th. Longswords don't really weight 4 lb, not even close.

[KicktheCAN]

Factotum/Mindbender2/Assassin1/Exemplar10/Mindbender8

I do not know if your DM has made an exception for you, but this build does not work. Factotum cannot meet the prerequisites for Mindbender since they lack an Arcane Caster Level.

As a side note, you also lack any spellcasting classes to progress with Mindbender (Arcane Dilettante, unfortunately, does not count).

[King Atticus]

I do not know if your DM has made an exception for you, but this build does not work. Factotum cannot meet the prerequisites for Mindbender since they lack an Arcane Caster Level.

As a side note, you also lack any spellcasting classes to progress with Mindbender (Arcane Dilettante, unfortunately, does not count).

Yeah, my DM let Arcane Dilettante apply since for that ability your caster level is equal to class level. I'm purposefully avoiding breaking this character and using those classes as flavor more than function so he cut me some slack.