Critical hits and creatures immune to them

[Andezzar]

I know there are several ways to make certain types of creatures, who are normally immune to critical hits, vulnerable to them. Is there a way to make all of them vulnerable to critical hits?

[lorddrake]

Well. I don't know if it is possible, but it would require some optimizing thought.

However, people here (that I've been reading on this forum) seem to agree that critical spamming is not the most optimal way to go for damage on melee because it is not as reliable as other optimization options.

[Keld Denar]

Deathstrike Bracers, but they take a swift action, last for 1 round, and are only usable 3 times a day. They are pretty cheap, however, so you could purchase several copies.

[Krotchrot]

Baleful Polymorph them into something that can be critically hit might work.

[mikau013]

Deathstrike Bracers, but they take a swift action, last for 1 round, and are only usable 3 times a day. They are pretty cheap, however, so you could purchase several copies.

First thing I thought off too but it doesn't work on all though

[Andezzar]

However, people here (that I've been reading on this forum) seem to agree that critical spamming is not the most optimal way to go for damage on melee because it is not as reliable as other optimization options.It is not about getting as many critical hits as possible but opening those creatures up for sneak attack and the INT bonus to damage from swashbuckler. Reducing their strength with crippling strike will be a nice bonus too.


First thing I thought off too but it doesn't work on all thoughExactly.

[Keld Denar]

The feat Savvy Rogue opens up the Crippling Strike facet. It's not a complete fix, but its decent. How many rounds per day do you anticipate needing to use these? Because if you save them for rounds you get full attacks, and do something else like UMD a wand or toss a net, you'd be surprised how long 3 rounds can be. Just buy a second pair if you think you'll be needing multiple combats per day. Also, don't burn charges on noncritical foes. Let the fighter with the greatsword do that. That's what you are paying him for, right?

[Andezzar]

The feat Savvy Rogue opens up the Crippling Strike facet. It's not a complete fix, but its decent.Unless you are talking about something else than the rogue special ability crippling strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm#specialAbilities), this only works if the target is already vulnerable to sneak attacks.

How many rounds per day do you anticipate needing to use these? Because if you save them for rounds you get full attacks, and do something else like UMD a wand or toss a net, you'd be surprised how long 3 rounds can be.The duration is not the issue. Three or six rounds should be enough. I mistakenly assumed that the deathstrike bracers only worked on undead like the greater truedeath crystal.

[Novawurmson]

Playing Pathfinder helps a lot :smalltongue: Only Oozes, Aeons, Elementals, Incorporeals (without a Ghost Touch weapon), and Swarms are immune to crits (plus creatures with Fortification-like abilities) there.

For 3.5, I can only think of PrC's and feats that let you sneak attack one kind of creature.

[Keld Denar]

It's been a while since I last looked at them, but I was pretty sure that Deathstrike Bracers work against anything. Undead, elementals, plants, constructs, fortification, etc.

[Ryulin18]

Penetrating strike from dungeonscape. Good Alternative class feature.

replaces trap sense
"Whenever you flank a creature that is otherwise immune to extra damage from sneak attacks. you deal half SA instead."

[mikau013]

It's been a while since I last looked at them, but I was pretty sure that Deathstrike Bracers work against anything. Undead, elementals, plants, constructs, fortification, etc.

Better look again then

[Keld Denar]

I was right about Savvy Rogue!


Crippling Strike: You can deal Strength damage even to a target that is immune to extra damage from sneak attacks.

So you can use Crippling Strike against an undead or construct, even if you aren't otherwise able to use SA against them. It also works against foes with Fortification.

I was wrong about the Deathstrike Bracers, though. They DO work against things that have immunity by virtue of type or subtype, but not against foes with Fortification. Still, that's pretty much what you were looking for.

[Big Fau]

I was right about Savvy Rogue!



So you can use Crippling Strike against an undead or construct, even if you aren't otherwise able to use SA against them. It also works against foes with Fortification.

I was wrong about the Deathstrike Bracers, though. They DO work against things that have immunity by virtue of type or subtype, but not against foes with Fortification. Still, that's pretty much what you were looking for.

Undead are still immune to ability damage to their physical scores...

[BowserX]

The Warshaper prestige class from Complete Warrior (pg. 90)

At 1st level you gain Morphic Immunity which makes you immune to stunning and critical hits

It's definitely something worth looking into if you are a melee druid or other shape changing class.

[mikau013]

I was wrong about the Deathstrike Bracers, though. They DO work against things that have immunity by virtue of type or subtype, but not against foes with Fortification. Still, that's pretty much what you were looking for.

Still not 100% correct :smalltongue:
They don't work on for example the Swarm subtype.

[kardar233]

Two things:

Can you trigger things that happen on a critical, (like, say, a Prismatic Burst weapon) on creatures immune to crits?

Also, is there a spell with the same effect as those Deathstrike Bracers? I'd like to Persist it.

[mikau013]

Two things:

Can you trigger things that happen on a critical, (like, say, a Prismatic Burst weapon) on creatures immune to crits?


Yes, weapons with crit effects trigger on crit immune creatures. (thus for example flaming burst would work on an undead as long as you confirm your critical, but does not do extra critical damage)

[Zombimode]

I like weapon crystals for that purpose.
A greater truedeath crystal costs only 9000 gp, and a greater demolition crystal only 6000 gp. You need a +3 chasis which some people might consider unoptimized, thanks to the presence of Greater Magic Weapon.

Still, seeing that undead and constructs probably make up the vast majority of normaly crit immune enemies a rogue or rogue-like character will face, those crystals are a very good way to overcome this weakness.

[Andezzar]

I like weapon crystals for that purpose.
A greater truedeath crystal costs only 9000 gp, and a greater demolition crystal only 6000 gp. You need a +3 chasis which some people might consider unoptimized, thanks to the presence of Greater Magic Weapon.Greater Magic Weapon makes your weapon +3 at CL 12+. So a mundane weapon would do as long as the spell is active. Dispel Magic however removes the spell and the effect from the crystal though.

[Curmudgeon]

If you just need sneak attack to work (as opposed to critical hits) and have Rogue levels, the Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, page 208) is good. It lets you deal sneak attack damage, with ½ the normal dice, to normally sneak-immune creatures when you flank them. That's still not going to work against unflankable enemies ─ Elementals, Oozes, and swarms ─ but it will work against 100% fortification. Note that Craven bonus sneak attack damage isn't from dice and so doesn't get reduced; a Rogue with Lightbringer Penetrating Strike and Craven will be at about 68% of full sneak attack damage. (There's also a non-Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF in Dungeonscape. That one isn't clear about whether the Rogue is actually still dealing sneak attack. Since the names are different you can choose either one, and I prefer to forestall DM arguments. :smallamused:)