Pixies- Overpowered?

[NeoSeraphi]

So...wow. Glancing over the pixie, I'm just kind of stunned. Netting an impressive +6 AC (+1 size, +4 Dex, +1 natural), a fly speed of 60 feet, DR 10/Cold Iron, +6 to Int and Cha and +4 to Wis with no Con penalty, two bonus feats (and one of them basically removing the dumped Strength for you), SR 15+class level, a few very nice SLAs including dispel magic and programmed image 1/day, a continuous greater invisibility, and even an elf's perception skill bonuses. All for only +4 LA? This seems to be far stronger than even 4 levels of rogue or ninja (Trade some lowered Sneak Attack for a guarantee to always have it, even with ranged weapons).

Comparing this to a drow (LA 2), or even a half-dragon (LA 3), it seems the pixie just plain wins. Does LA really scale so quadrilaterally? I know that if I took two extra levels in sorcerer, it wouldn't mean getting +4 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha and changing my darkness into programmed image. Not to mention the 3 extra SR and the flight.

What do you guys think? Is this really fair for +4 LA? I know LA is harsh, but at 20th level, a 16th level pixie spellcaster will still have access to 8th level spells, and the non-magical fly speed and extremely high mental ability scores will probably make her fairly effective, even without access to 9ths. (And that's assuming there's no buyoff. Just buying off one of those LA will still get you 9ths at 20th)

[Mystify]

I played one once. It was pretty amazing. the stat mods pretty much means all your skills work on-level, if not better, and the int means you have more of them. you are faster, you are small with pretty much every drawback mitigated, you have some sweet DR, some cool SLAs, and to top it all of, you are invisible. Period. That ceases to be as impressive later, but at the lower levels they can easily dominate combat. Oh, look, I'm flying around invisible... I'm someplace within shortbow range of you, good luck pinning it down.

[MammonAzrael]

Now, they are not overpowered. Pixies are one of the very few creatures that actually make the LA worth it. And for LA 4 they need to offer some very impressive options - which they do. Drow and half-dragon...well, they just aren't very good. The only +2 LA option I can think of that is actually worth it is the Saint template (though that is probably worth +3 given all the immunities it grants...maybe).

Rogue and Ninja are poor comparisons, as they're generally on the weaker side. And remember that a 5th level rogue or ninja will have WAY more hit points, skills, BAB, and saves (though the last two are somewhat mitigated by the stat boosts).

In short, pixies are a great race because you can actually consider playing them at not feel screwed. You can play 4 levels behind your companions and not feel useless, but nor should you feel over-powered (unless your group actively hates optimization, believes Core is balanced, and so forth, then it might seem too strong).

[TroubleBrewing]

I'd avoid them for low-level games, but for mid-level stuff, they kick serious butt.

Your hit points will always be tragically low, but with a wide range of defenses ranging from near-perfect stealth to one of the better SR's available, if you play conservatively and carefully, you'll be a lean, mean, tiny-sized killin' machine.

[Socratov]

what i wonder is: is the additional LA worth it to get Otto's Irresitable Dance? I know it's a great spell (or so I have been told), but is it worth it? Other then that, the pixies small size does help at some things, but sucks at other things (like grappeling, tripping etc.), moreover, you won't really do any damage with your weapon alone (you will need additional damage) and to be honest, AC and DR aren't all they make up to be, as soon as you wreck havoc you will get a visit from some not very nice people who will carry, guess what, cold iron weapons. the statbonuses are nice thoug and will help immensly with, for instance, casting etc.

that said, the LA for non irrestiable dance pixies is quite managable and with LA buyoff quite effective. Of course, when you encounter spellcasters they will just buff their hitters with see invis and your main help is gone.

Also, another question, if you make a pixie Paladin of freedom, what steed would you be able to pick? That would be an interesting characterconcept (just make it ranged instead of melee)

[Mystify]

The extra LA mightb e worth it in low LA games, but I've never bothered.

[MammonAzrael]

what i wonder is: is the additional LA worth it to get Otto's Irresitable Dance? I know it's a great spell (or so I have been told), but is it worth it?

It's +2 LS for a single 1/day SLA. Not even close to worth it. If you're using the Savage Species progression it's probably worth it to take all 5 levels.


Also, another question, if you make a pixie Paladin of freedom, what steed would you be able to pick? That would be an interesting characterconcept (just make it ranged instead of melee)

Charging Smite, Divine Spirit, Stand Fast, or Underdark Knight ACFs. :smallwink:

But seriously? You're a flying small creature, so you're likely going to want to treat your mount as more of an animal companion...and you'll likely want it to fly. So maybe a dragonnel or griffon or something?

[tyckspoon]

what i wonder is: is the additional LA worth it to get Otto's Irresitable Dance?

No. It is a good spell. It is *not* good enough to be worth +2 LA, especially as a mere 1/day ability, and particularly on top of the +4 LA you're already working with, since the opportunity cost of LA isn't purely linear- you give up more and more for each one. In order to really get a good trade on a single SLA for +6 LA, you'd need something on the level of Gate/Shapechange/Wish.

[Metahuman1]

what i wonder is: is the additional LA worth it to get Otto's Irresitable Dance? I know it's a great spell (or so I have been told), but is it worth it? Other then that, the pixies small size does help at some things, but sucks at other things (like grappeling, tripping etc.), moreover, you won't really do any damage with your weapon alone (you will need additional damage) and to be honest, AC and DR aren't all they make up to be, as soon as you wreck havoc you will get a visit from some not very nice people who will carry, guess what, cold iron weapons. the statbonuses are nice thoug and will help immensly with, for instance, casting etc.

that said, the LA for non irrestiable dance pixies is quite managable and with LA buyoff quite effective. Of course, when you encounter spellcasters they will just buff their hitters with see invis and your main help is gone.

Also, another question, if you make a pixie Paladin of freedom, what steed would you be able to pick? That would be an interesting characterconcept (just make it ranged instead of melee)

Actually, if it was a mounted Warrior (With the right mount appropriate to the pixie's size it shouldn't have any problem being able to go just about anywhere the rest of the party goes and charge in just about any environment with a bit of planning and investment. ) It could be a very effective Melee combatant. Stack on some PA multipliers and spirited charge while using your lance two handed and you should be fine on damage. Get pounce and ask DM to let you make the lance Feycraft to count as finnessable if he's feeling generous and your definitely in reasonable shape.

Not the most optimized build in the world, but workable.

[Mystify]

But now you have a visible mount, revealing where you are.

[Metahuman1]

I said not super optimized didn't I?

You've also got massive Dex and sized bonuses to hit to allow you to trade in a lot of BAB on a charge, TH PA, and spirited charge + what ever PA multipliers you want to tack on + what ever other PA/Damage boosts you can/care to add on and a mount that can accommodate going just about anywhere and doing his charge just about any time you need it.

[Rubik]

I said not super optimized didn't I?

You've also got massive Dex and sized bonuses to hit to allow you to trade in a lot of BAB on a charge, TH PA, and spirited charge + what ever PA multipliers you want to tack on + what ever other PA/Damage boosts you can/care to add on and a mount that can accommodate going just about anywhere and doing his charge just about any time you need it.Unfortunately you also have a smaller BAB, so you can't Power Attack for as much.

[Metahuman1]

True, but what you get you can pretty safely drop into PA, and if you pick up boosters and multipliers on it you'll be fine.

[bansidhe]

Play one,ok they are cool,and get some cool stuff....but overpowered..nope.

I do love my Pixies,early on yeah,you hold your own...but later,you better read up,and plan that build!

[DeAnno]

Drow and Half-Dragons are wretchedly awful for their LA. Saying Pixie is too good in comparison is like saying Swordsage is too good because its dominatingly better than Monk.

[Particle_Man]

hmmmm . . . pixie swordsage . . . :smallcool:

[Talya]

Magic-in-the-Blood + Otto's Dance becomes turns the tradeoff into +2 LA for a level 6 (Bard) spell 3/day. Which would be a bit impressive if a level 1 spell (Protection from [Alignment]) didn't completely counter Otto's dance. Even without the many ways things can be immune to Otto's Dance, it's probably not worth it...but it might be FUN.

The problem with Pixies at lower levels, is they are a binary combatant. They either auto-win, or auto-lose, depending on whether the enemy can detect them. This puts the DM in a bit of a quandary.

[Wookie-ranger]

i think i will need to play a Pixie in a E6 game. :smallbiggrin:

[Rejusu]

Trixie the Pixie Party Booster (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867902/Trixie_the_Party_Booster)

One of the most amusing Pixie builds I've seen.

[Flickerdart]

Magic-in-the-Blood + Otto's Dance becomes turns the tradeoff into +2 LA for a level 6 (Bard) spell 3/day. Which would be a bit impressive if a level 1 spell (Protection from [Alignment]) didn't completely counter Otto's dance. Even without the many ways things can be immune to Otto's Dance, it's probably not worth it...but it might be FUN.
The Dance doesn't grant ongoing control to the caster, so Protection does nothing against it.


Trixie the Pixie Party Booster (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19867902/Trixie_the_Party_Booster)

One of the most amusing Pixie builds I've seen.
Eh...all it really does is give an initiative boost to useful people. Its AC is too low, its DCs vs Daze are too low, its damage output is too low.