Under-appreciated Entries in Major Franchises [Archive]

Eakin

2012-03-16, 04:23 PM

I think it's fair to say that every long-running game franchise will have games of varying quality. Usually there's an entry that the internet will sort of collectively agree is the best, or at least have the same top two or three even if they're ordered a bit differently person to person. This thread isn't about those games.

Most of these franchises have a couple entries that are just really weird, really different than the other games, or are just terrible and everyone prefers to just ignore that they were ever made. This thread isn't about those games either.

This thread is about the games that sort of faded into the background. That were really good but don't get any appreciation. The sort that you have to remind people they even existed at all.

For example, Everyone remembers Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, and Link to the Past. But how often do people remember Oracle of Ages/Seasons for the Game Boy Color? Those were really good, too!

A series like Final Fantasy is divisive and people have wildly varying opinions on it, but I find that FF5 is unfairly overlooked a lot of the time.

What games do you guys think were good, but not quite good enough to avoid being overshadowed by their stellar brother and sister games?

Giggling Ghast

2012-03-16, 04:33 PM

I'll get shouted down for this, but I think DA2 will be better regarded as time goes on.

Zevox

2012-03-16, 05:39 PM

I thought that Super Mario Sunshine was a very good game, but it seems that a lot of people can't get over the use of a water-based weapon and paint-based enemies in it.

Similarly, I liked Star Fox Adventures. It was goofy, but Star Fox has always been goofy. My main disappointment with it was the final boss fight being a re-run of SF64's Andross fight, rather than a duel with General Scales.

Advance Wars: Days of Ruin is another. A lot of fans look down on it, probably mainly because of the sudden change of characters and story tone, but it was the first game in the series with a story you could sort of take seriously, and did a lot of good re-balancing things after the totally broken systems of Dual Strike. I actually have a hard time choosing between it and Dual Strike for my favorite in the series sometimes, in spite of the fact that I miss the first three games' system for COs and their powers.

Oh, and Dragon Age 2, just in general. I've said more than enough about it on these boards in the year it's been out though.

Zevox

MCerberus

2012-03-16, 05:47 PM

UT2003 gets a bad rep from shooter fans like myself. However, 2004 was essentially the same game, only with two new game modes and a different sniper rifle.

The framework 2003 laid down was still good in its own right, and everything was brought in to the next game. UT2003's unforgivable sin was just leaving out Assault (and yet the took it out again for UT3).

psilontech

2012-03-16, 06:05 PM

Hyudra

2012-03-16, 06:07 PM

Final fantasy tactics, yeah. It got re-released as a game of the year, again on PSP, yet it's a virtual unknown in many circles, and it's awesome on a lot of levels.

Starwulf

2012-03-16, 06:50 PM

Final fantasy tactics, yeah. It got re-released as a game of the year, again on PSP, yet it's a virtual unknown in many circles, and it's awesome on a lot of levels.

Ya know, I really hate to admit this, but I have FFT both as the original for the PS1, and the remake, War of the Lions on the PSP, and I have not played either yet. I've been meaning to for quite a while now, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

For me, I'd have to say Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker. It's not quite the same as the other Dragon Quest games, but it is an excellent game, very fun, and even though the plot is sparse, what there is of it, is actually pretty interesting, and it has a TON of replayability, which I can't really can't say about any of the other DQ games with the exception of 4 and 8.

I'd say Diablo as well. Yes, it's the game that started it all, and there are only 3(well, about to be 3) entries into the series, but all I EVER hear is "Diablo 2 this, Diablo 2 that", and if you ask most people if they've even played the first one, they're like "Nah, I heard it wasn't good" or "Isn't that really old?" Drives me nuts, because the original Diablo was a fantastic game which I played for a loooong freaking time, and really, if it hadn't been as good as it was, the hype for D2 wouldn't have been a fraction of what it was. As it is, I can remember joining and eventually running a Diablo 2 guild TWO YEARS before the game even came out, and it's all because of Diablo itself.

Gnoman

2012-03-16, 07:11 PM

Fallout: Tactics
Although some hate it and most others seem to just not know it exists, I rather enjoyed F:T. Essentially, it boils down to fallout as a squad-based strategy game running off of the combat mechanics, slightly modified of course, of Fallout 2.

XCOM: Apocalypse
Real-Time XCOM being fun? It's more likely than you might think. While for the real combat I generally switched over to turn-based, the real-time was useful for exploring and saving time in the less exciting portions of missions.

I'd have to argue that Xcom 2 fits better. Apocalypse tends to be fairly popular among those that actually know it exists. TfTD is almost universally panned, despite having a great deal more flavor than the first game. (The serious bugs and extreme difficulty certainly don't help.

Geno9999

2012-03-16, 09:59 PM

I thought that Super Mario Sunshine was a very good game, but it seems that a lot of people can't get over the use of a water-based weapon and paint-based enemies in it.

My problem with that game were the Blue Coins.
No clues to that some Coins are only available at certain chapters, and not accessible in others.:smallannoyed:
Otherwise, I thought SMS was pretty good.

Similarly, I liked Star Fox Adventures. It was goofy, but Star Fox has always been goofy. My main disappointment with it was the final boss fight being a re-run of SF64's Andross fight, rather than a duel with General Scales.
My impression of it was Zelda w/ Arwing rail shooter intermissions. Not to say that it's a bad game, it's just a different genre than the rest of the series.

My 4 bits is an 8-bit Sequel... Zelda II: The Adventure of Link. Hard? Yes. Bit of a Black Sheep from the rest of the series with the platforming elements? Yes. But I for one want to see more from this kind of game. Especially if you can use other weapons, other than the sword, shield, and whatever magic you learned.

Grif

2012-03-16, 10:03 PM

I believe Ratchet: Deadlocked (Or Gladiator) falls under this category. It is usually branded as the black sheep of the R&C games due to its emphasis on the shooter aspect of the game.

For what's its worth, I found it very fun. Doubly so when I found out you can actually coop in this game with a friend. Many hours of pure fun ensued. I'm not entirely sure why fans dislike this iteration.

psilontech

2012-03-17, 05:03 AM

I'd have to argue that Xcom 2 fits better. Apocalypse tends to be fairly popular among those that actually know it exists. TfTD is almost universally panned, despite having a great deal more flavor than the first game. (The serious bugs and extreme difficulty certainly don't help.

I don't know about that. At least in the circles I frequent, a mention of Lobstermen will generally get a few people's spines straightened while Poppers and Megaspawns just end up giving them the confused look of 'What the hell are those?'

Falgorn

2012-03-17, 07:36 AM

Moonshadow

2012-03-17, 07:58 AM

Personally, I like Suikoden: Tactics. Hardcore Suikoden fans all say that because it's not a main game that it's terrible, but I quite liked it. I thought the story was good and I thought that it was a really nice SRPG.

Artanis

2012-03-17, 07:39 PM

Star Wars: Dark Forces. Everybody knows about Jedi Knight and JK2. But everybody I've talked to seem to think that those were the first and second in the series, not the second and third.

XCOM: Apocalypse
Real-Time XCOM being fun? It's more likely than you might think. While for the real combat I generally switched over to turn-based, the real-time was useful for exploring and saving time in the less exciting portions of missions.

QFT. In my opinion, Apocalypse's biggest problem was that people (understandably) tried to hold it to the standard set by the original X-COM. If you let it stand on its own merits, it's a much better game than it gets credit for.

Othesemo

2012-03-17, 07:55 PM

I'm gonna go with Dragon Age 2. I think that many of its best qualities are either ignored or disparaged simply because they differ from those of the first, while all of its flaws are exaggerated because they were similarly nonexistent in Origins.

Gnoman

2012-03-18, 01:14 AM

I don't know about that. At least in the circles I frequent, a mention of Lobstermen will generally get a few people's spines straightened while Poppers and Megaspawns just end up giving them the confused look of 'What the hell are those?'

True, Apocalypse is less well known. Point is, those who know of it generally have worse an attitude of "So OK it's average." TFTD tends to be treated as an abominable piece of garbage, when it's not actually a bad game at all.

Fri

2012-03-18, 09:19 AM

Megaman Legends. It's one of my favourite game of all time, and definitely one of the most under-appreciated gem in Megaman Franchise, both by players and the publisher themselves. Goddamn it Capcom.

Hunter Noventa

2012-03-19, 08:00 AM

Final fantasy tactics, yeah. It got re-released as a game of the year, again on PSP, yet it's a virtual unknown in many circles, and it's awesome on a lot of levels.

I'd have to agree, especially after they made FFTA and FFTA2 which are similar...but just not as good somehow. Maybe because they use the horrible mechanic of learning abilities from items, so that in some cases you can't even get Cura or Raise til more than halfway through the game.

But FFT? Grind it out and it's yours.

As for another under-appreciated gem, I'd almost say the entire Suikoden franchise, considering how Konami treats it compared to stuff like Metal Gear (which i can't stand).

The Glyphstone

2012-03-19, 08:07 AM

Star Wars: Dark Forces. Everybody knows about Jedi Knight and JK2. But everybody I've talked to seem to think that those were the first and second in the series, not the second and third.

QFT. In my opinion, Apocalypse's biggest problem was that people (understandably) tried to hold it to the standard set by the original X-COM. If you let it stand on its own merits, it's a much better game than it gets credit for.

Dark Forces was supposed to be part of a series with the Jedi Knight games? I had no idea, though I still un-fondly remember wading through sewers anxiously waiting to be ambushed by the next dianoga..

*wikis*

Ooh, it's available on Steam!

Derjuin

2012-03-19, 08:19 AM

I don't know if it'd be considered a major franchise anymore, but I haven't met too many people who have actually heard of the first game in the Shining Force series, called Shining in the Darkness. It's a dungeoncrawler that I got addicted to grew up with and really enjoyed the heck out of. It's a different sort of RPG than the later games in the series, however, so that might be the cause.

Soup

2012-03-19, 08:40 AM

Most of the quirky or under-appreciated games I fondly remember are plagued with bugs or unintuitive gameplay.

Fallout Tactics is a good example of this. I love the game and the concept, but there are a couple of bugs that annoy the hell out of me. Also, the progression of the game meant that most of the skills are fairly useless as the game goes on.

I saw Diablo mentioned here. I don't think it's less appreciated so much as having slower gameplay than its successor. D2 revamped the game to be about fast combat and insane clickfests. D1 played a lot slower and even more tactical at points.
This is in large part due to the slow movement speed of the game.

The game still wins out in atmosphere though. To the day the Butcher still scares the hell out of me and the music, oh the music. No game will ever be able to beat D1 in the ambiance department.

As for adding some new games to the list. I've always liked Heroes of Might and Magic 4 in spite of the common opinion. Alright, HOMM3 will never be beaten in both gameplay and balance, but 4 had some fun elements. Being able to use your heroes in combat was broken as hell, but it was fun.
The fact that you didn't have to use heroes as wagontrains to your main army was also nice. The biggest issue for me was the combined Necropolis/Inferno town, which as a primary Necropolis player annoyed the hell out of me.

factotum

2012-03-19, 11:34 AM

and the music, oh the music. No game will ever be able to beat D1 in the ambiance department.

Wasn't D2 music composed by the same guy (Matt Uelmen)? He definitely re-used the town music from D1 for when you revisited the ruined Tristram in D2...

Mx.Silver

2012-03-19, 02:33 PM

For example, Everyone remembers Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, and Link to the Past. But how often do people remember Oracle of Ages/Seasons for the Game Boy Color? Those were really good, too!

They were, but very few people actually played them.

A series like Final Fantasy is divisive and people have wildly varying opinions on it, but I find that FF5 is unfairly overlooked a lot of the time.
Probably because, again, very few people have played it, due to how long it took to get released outside of Japan. FF2 and FF3 had the same problem.

What games do you guys think were good, but not quite good enough to avoid being overshadowed by their stellar brother and sister games?
Heroes of Might and Magic 4 I would say is the best example. Yeah it had a lot of balance problems and was open to rather more abuse than 2&3, but it still had a certain charm. Plus excellent music and writing (outside of the expansion packs, which were stupid and should never be spoken of).

Advance Wars: Days of Ruin is another. A lot of fans look down on it, probably mainly because of the sudden change of characters and story tone, but it was the first game in the series with a story you could sort of take seriously, and did a lot of good re-balancing things after the totally broken systems of Dual Strike.
Agreed, but then again I wasn't too fond of Dual Strike. Advance Wars 2 tends to get overlooked a bit as well, despite it essentially being Advance Wars 1 but better. It certainly had the best implemented Hard Mode campaign of the series.

Re: Dragon age 2
In DA2's case it's less not being good enough game so much as not being a good sequel. I don't think it's a coincidence that most people I've met who like DA2 (myself included) weren't huge fans of Dragon Age Origins, as DA2 seems to go out of it's to actively subvert the core theme of DA:O. One of the core themes of DA2 is that Hawke has little actual power to affect the world around him/her, whereas Fereldan pretty much revolved around the whims of the Warden. Hence basically everyone who liked the amount of influence their choices had in DAO got annoyed by Hawke's lack of control over events in DA2.

Starwulf

2012-03-19, 06:35 PM

They were, but very few people actually played them.

Probably because, again, very few people have played it, due to how long it took to get released outside of Japan. FF2 and FF3 had the same problem.

Heroes of Might and Magic 4 I would say is the best example. Yeah it had a lot of balance problems and was open to rather more abuse than 2&3, but it still had a certain charm. Plus excellent music and writing (outside of the expansion packs, which were stupid and should never be spoken of).

Agreed, but then again I wasn't too fond of Dual Strike. Advance Wars 2 tends to get overlooked a bit as well, despite it essentially being Advance Wars 1 but better. It certainly had the best implemented Hard Mode campaign of the series.

Re: Dragon age 2
In DA2's case it's less not being good enough game so much as not being a good sequel. I don't think it's a coincidence that most people I've met who like DA2 (myself included) weren't huge fans of Dragon Age Origins, as DA2 seems to go out of it's to actively subvert the core theme of DA:O. One of the core themes of DA2 is that Hawke has little actual power to affect the world around him/her, whereas Fereldan pretty much revolved around the whims of the Warden. Hence basically everyone who liked the amount of influence their choices had in DAO got annoyed by Hawke's lack of control over events in DA2.

FF5 IS a great game. Though, I personally have enjoyed all of the Final Fantasy Games with the exception of FFT(Which I have yet to play, despite owning the original PS1 version and the PSP Remake), and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest for the SNES, which I absolutely despise and wish I could burn every copy on the face of the planet. Oh, and I guess the ones that came out for the original Gameboy/Gameboy Color simply because I never got the chance to acquire them.

beyond that, Loved them all!

Next up: Heroes of Might and Magic 4. One of my favorites, I prefer it over 5 and 1, and it's tied with 2. It's only beat by HOMM 3, but I probably have nearly the same amount of time played with it. It strayed a good bit from the original formula, but that was part of the charm for me.

HOMM 6 I haven't gotten to play much yet, but I have to say it's fairly enjoyable, despite the lack of normal resources. I love that you can access all skills upon level up, I always hated the fact that you were often pigeon-holed into certain skills because the ones you got never showed up at level-up time. I guess the only issue with the new system is all online matches will have heroes following a very specific cookie-cutter build that EVERYONE else uses, which gets boring.

Finally: FRESH MEAT!!!!

Talvereaux

2012-03-20, 02:42 AM

Majora's Mask makes my top three on Zelda titles. It was a lot smaller than OOT and recycled a lot of its graphics, but between its masterfully crafted dungeons and usage of the three day loop to give every facet of the world its own schedule (and one where events vary between days), it was a very finely tuned and detailed game for its time.

Muppet Babies Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island is my favorite of the Mario platformers, but it's generally seen as more of a flyover entry between megahit launch titles.

Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards is my favorite Kirby title. Limiting flight improved the gameplay a lot, allowing it to embrace more platforming conventions as well as making it so level design didn't need to be nearly as cramped to prevent the player from just flying over every obstacle. In addition, the Power Combo system was an entertaining and engaging spin on Kirby's copy ability.

Legend of Mana is my favorite of Square's games, though it's often overlooked in favor of Secret of Mana as well as the Final Fantasy franchise.

Soup

2012-03-20, 04:17 AM

Wasn't D2 music composed by the same guy (Matt Uelmen)? He definitely re-used the town music from D1 for when you revisited the ruined Tristram in D2...

True, but somehow the music fades a bit into the background in D2, at least for me. D1 is slow and ominous, you actually feel the danger around you.

In D2 you run circles around the big bad dropping Blizzards and Firewalls as you go. I've never felt in danger in D2. That's not to say D2 isn't in my top 5 favourite games, because it is. It's just there for different reasons.

Soup

2012-03-20, 04:52 AM

Winthur

2012-03-20, 05:26 AM

Alright, HOMM3 will never be beaten in both gameplay and balance, but 4 had some fun elements. Being able to use your heroes in combat was broken as hell, but it was fun.
The fact that you didn't have to use heroes as wagontrains to your main army was also nice. The biggest issue for me was the combined Necropolis/Inferno town, which as a primary Necropolis player annoyed the hell out of me.
*giggle*
I'm sorry, but...
*snort*
hee hee :smallbiggrin:
(At least you didn't say "primary Conflux player")
(And yeah, HoMM3 was still more balanced than 4)

I agree on Diablo 1 needing more love. Somehow there were more things enjoyable about it. Even Lazarus runs had more of a charm than the Baalruns/Mephruns of the second game. PvP, particularly between Warriors, was pretty fun. The big problem with abandonment of D1 battle.net was probably the abundance of hackers that Blizzard has no control over. Nowadays there's even a hacked item approved in certain PvP circles (Lightforge helm).
Also, in D1, I actually hear the music, in D2, there's so much sound going on that the music just kinda disappears. The only tune I can hum to myself from D2 is the one from the... main menu, but from D1 I remember every other theme.

Fallout Tactics... never tried to be anything else but a good implementation of Fallout mechanics into a squad game. It's a pretty good game when you see it this way, and it has a fun multiplayer mode too.

Here's one people figure is archaic and useless - Hitman: Codename 47. The mechanics are clunky, sure, but at least it's the only game that had the rating system. Without it, Hitman is more of a sandbox. Now I'm a big fan of other Hitman games, particularly Silent Assassin, but in C47, even with a silent approach, I could shoot that guy who spotted me or slit some guard throats without repercussion. And it was good. Also, the outdoor missions in Columbia are way more memorable and replayable than the... *takes his pills* ...Japan missions in Hitman 2. Plus, C47 gave us Traditions of the Trade and the immortal bathroom line (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiVRlNKEgew). It's not obsolete just because Contracts was released. This theme music is ALSO not obsolete (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-oJZQVDllc); what happened to it? It was amazing! :smallfrown:

Craft (Cheese)

2012-03-20, 06:04 AM

Okay, I know I'm gonna get some hate for this, but Metroid: Other M. Gamers tend to let the horrible abomination that was the Ridley pre-boss cutscene make them forget that the Ridley bossfight afterward was actually pretty fun. I completely understand why, of course, but my point is the actual game parts aren't THAT bad. I seriously think it would have been far better received if all the cutscenes and dialogue were stripped from the game. Wouldn't be the best game in the series by a longshot, but it'd be upgraded from franchise killer to underwhelming.

As for DA2... my complaint about the story really has nothing to do with Hawke's lessened control in world events, if you can even say that: The only problem that comes up which Hawke doesn't get to fix is the whole Mage-Templar war issue.

My real problem with DA2's plot is that it's a mostly disconnected stream of events, especially in Act 1. For example:

- Why do I have to go deliver Flemeth's amulet?

- Why do I have to help the Qunari Mage escape the city?

- Why do I have to help that dwarf get his gunpowder?

- Why do I have to find that missing Templar?

- Why do I have to rescue the Dalish boy?

Yes, yes, I understand that the purpose of all of these quests is to set up foreshadowing and context for later events, but that doesn't excuse the fact that, at the time of which I'm doing these quests, there's no real reason given for it. There's the "earn enough gold to invest in the deep roads expedition" goal but you still have to do these things even long after you have the 50 gold you need. I did almost every side quest in Act 1 before departing and had well over 120 gold by the time I was done. *After* spending quite a bit on getting items and equipment.

Drascin

2012-03-20, 06:41 AM

Okay, I know I'm gonna get some hate for this, but Metroid: Other M. Gamers tend to let the horrible abomination that was the Ridley pre-boss cutscene make them forget that the Ridley bossfight afterward was actually pretty fun. I completely understand why, of course, but my point is the actual game parts aren't THAT bad. I seriously think it would have been far better received if all the cutscenes and dialogue were stripped from the game. Wouldn't be the best game in the series by a longshot, but it'd be upgraded from franchise killer to underwhelming.

Well, yes. Metroid Other M was a completely average game with horrendous cutscenes. Without the cutscenes it would just be a mediocre game, and those don't kill franchises, they just get forgotten and met with a shrug of "eh, it was fun I guess" when mentioned later. Let's be honest - even dialogue notwithstanding, its gameplay entirely lacked all the exploration and backtracking and general finding-where-the-****-you-have-to-go that is so core to a really satisfying Metroid experience, but it was a somewhat acceptable run-and-gun game during the gameplay parts.

The thing is that, well. A game is the sum of its parts. And the thread is about underappreciated games - taken as a whole thing. And given said cutscenes, I'm not sure it is physically possible to underappreciate Other M beyond what it deserves :smalltongue:.

My personal entry to this thread... Megaman ZX. A lot of people said it was gimmicky and bad, and I would say it certainly wasn't. It wasn't as good as the Megaman Zero and X games? Probably, in all honesty. But "worse than MMZ" is still "better than most sidescrollers out of there" people, keep that in mind :smallwink:.

Soup

2012-03-20, 07:51 AM

*giggle*
I'm sorry, but...
*snort*
hee hee :smallbiggrin:
(At least you didn't say "primary Conflux player")
(And yeah, HoMM3 was still more balanced than 4)

Yeah well. I should've said 'balance when compared to other HOMM games'. There's still plenty of imbalance in 3, in both skills (Earth Magic, Logistics vs Eagle Eye, Mystisism) and towns (Conflux vs Inferno) but at least it's playable and you always stand a chance you matter what town you're playing.

Actually, I think HOMM4 with the Equilibrium mod may be the most balanced of all the HOMMs. It's just that the game unbalances itself by allowing heroes to take an active role in combat. The creatures always take second place.

Grif

2012-03-20, 08:05 AM

I have another one to add here.

Sonic CD. Say what you will about it being Sonic 1.5, but I feel it is a fun enough iteration of the franchise to stand on its own. Damn if exploring the levels in different time periods aren't a load of fun. :smallwink:

IrnBruAddict

2012-03-20, 11:00 AM

Sonic Rush Adventure

The DS games are much better then the trash 3d games they released on the consoles (until Colours and Generations). Blaze isn't a friend of Silver from the future, she's a princess from an alternate reality who hangs aboout with Marine the Racoon. Marine and Blaze are unique and cool characters who are far more interesting than Silver or Shadow.

Megaman Maverick Hunter X

This made a brilliant game better with great graphics, a new playable character and even a short animated movie. If they threw in the ability to play as pre-Z-saber Zero it would be my hands down favourite Megaman game. The ZX and Starforce games are also overlooked. I like Starforce better than battle Network.

Metal Gear Acid 1 & 2

It's totally different from the Metal Gear Solid games but once you learn the battle system it's even more tactical. And even though it's non-canon it has some cool characters who deserve more facetime (Like La Clown and Venus). It hits some dark themes with things like child experementation. The first one even had a wackier ending than any MGS game, which is pretty damn hard, let me tell you.

GungHo

2012-03-20, 12:01 PM

Fallout: Tactics
Although some hate it and most others seem to just not know it exists, I rather enjoyed F:T. Essentially, it boils down to fallout as a squad-based strategy game running off of the combat mechanics, slightly modified of course, of Fallout 2.
It took two games I really liked (Fallout and Jagged Alliance) and married them stylistcally. I quite enjoyed it. It was weird lore-wise when compared to the other two Fallout games, but the fun of Fallout was that you could fit a lot of weird crap in there, and it's not like Fallout 1 and 2 didn't have their own lore clashes.

I also thought Jedi Academy was a good game that never got a fair shake or a fair sequel, though that may have been a factor of the same timing issue that screwed up KOTOR 2.

Mx.Silver

2012-03-20, 01:38 PM

Yeah well. I should've said 'balance when compared to other HOMM games'. There's still plenty of imbalance in 3, in both skills (Earth Magic, Logistics vs Eagle Eye, Mystisism) and towns (Conflux vs Inferno) but at least it's playable and you always stand a chance you matter what town you're playing.

Yeah, but it did have a lot of traps as far as secondary skills went (Learning being the absolute worst), and the expert magics were a teensy bit on the broken side. Sure, once you found out what you needed to avoid it got better (aside from Conflux because screw the Conflux) but it was still a problem.
It was also more balanced than HoMM2, but then again a lot of 2's imbalance may have been intentional, given how up-front it was about it.

Next up: Heroes of Might and Magic 4. One of my favorites, I prefer it over 5 and 1, and it's tied with 2. It's only beat by HOMM 3, but I probably have nearly the same amount of time played with it. It strayed a good bit from the original formula, but that was part of the charm for me.

Starwulf and I are apparently in agreement about something. Can't say I was ever expecting to be able to make that statement :smalltongue:

Dextral

2012-03-21, 10:11 AM

Knights of the Old Republic 2: Don't care it was buggy and unfinished, I still maintain this was a brilliant deconstruction of both the binary morality of Star Wars and of RPGs in general. Kreia still stands as one of the best written video game characters ever.

Dragon Age 2 Allow me to echo the appreciation for Bioware's much maligned seqeul. While a very different style from Origins, I was completely won over by the end.

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Hey, you know that the GBA version of A Link to the Past has some kind of multiplayer, right? Turns out it's pretty awesome.

Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles Entirely dependant on whether or not you could get people to play it with you. If you could, you played one of the most unique RPG I've ever played, with a really cool setting and fun team based gameplay. The initial cutesy art style hides a really dark, tragic main storyline that you discover as you dig deeper into the world.

Soup

2012-03-21, 10:23 AM

It took two games I really liked (Fallout and Jagged Alliance) and married them stylistcally. I quite enjoyed it. It was weird lore-wise when compared to the other two Fallout games, but the fun of Fallout was that you could fit a lot of weird crap in there, and it's not like Fallout 1 and 2 didn't have their own lore clashes.

I also thought Jedi Academy was a good game that never got a fair shake or a fair sequel, though that may have been a factor of the same timing issue that screwed up KOTOR 2.

I wouldn't call Jedi Academy under appreciated. IIRC it had a huge online following and to be honest I prefered the SP campaign a bit more than the JKII campaign, despite having a teribad storyline. The maps were fun, if a bit simple but it was the combat that won me over.