3.x Ideas for the lone spell caster?

[333]

Alright, so in the campaign I'm in I'm a Cleric of Azuth and the only magically inclined character (We also have a bard who can't hit the broadside of a barn and a rogue who has some questionable friends)

I joined the party in the later part of the first level, right as the Ranger lost interest. ANYWAY, I prefer wizards, but my friend the bard, who introduced me to the campaign, begged me to be a healer so I went human cleric (I rolled him way to fast to optimize)

What I'm here to ask is for any advice on future feats and such that will help me provide the only available magical support(our bard is acting as our "tank" atm, so even when he gains the ability to cast spells he won't have the chance to use many of them)? I kind of want to start making magical items as soon as possible, and would also love to mult-class wizard(I'm a sucker for the mystic theurge despite it's mechanical problems)

That seems more rambly than I intended. Basically, any advice for the lone spell caster in a small group would be appreciated. My domains are Knowledge and Magic, and I rolled 18 for Int and Wis.Cha is 16 or 17, I can't remember. Also, my DM doesn't like things that break the system, so lets avoid that, eh? All I want is advice that is accepted RAI, and will help my spell caster. I would love to focus on either necromancey or conjuration at some point, provide some tanks for my party, and there is a PrC I read somewhere that allows non evil clerics to summon demons, anyone remember what it was or have one like it? Also, I'm LN in an other wise CN party.

If you followed that you deserve a cookie, my thoughts are a little scattered today...

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Complete scoundrel, p.48: Malconvoker is the prestige class you are looking for, I think. Should you decide to go that route, I advice you to google for some cleric and summoner handbooks out there on this forum, WotC forums and Brilliant Gameologist. You'll find the best builds and feats there, I am sure.

[Soulean]

Never been a fan of summoning creatures or any other 'extra' combatants. Can slow the game to a crawl when one persons turn involves 8 monsters and himself. Obviously if you keep the number of things you summon to a minimum its not as bad but you are still basically playing multiple characters. Well, maybe 1.5 characters.

One of my favorite cleric prestige classes is Divine Oracle. Full casting improved uncanny dodge and Immunity to surprise. Worth taking just so you can say 'I knew that was going to happen'.

Has more of a wizardy feel to it as well. Cast lots of divination spells.

[Particle_Man]

I second Malconvoker, and strongly recommend you have stat blocks ready for your typical summoned creatures to save time.

One thing to be aware of though - you can increase bluff in many ways (heck there is a domain for it becoming a class skill for starters, right?) so summoning the bad guys is probably fine, but when it comes to the actual binding of demons to do your bidding, they can test the barriers on you and have a 1 in 20 chance of breaking free and ruining your life. The malconvoker's life thus can be a dangerous one - play with hellfire and you might get burnt! :smallsmile: But for some people that is part of the charm. Have fun!

[Particle_Man]

Oh and there is a summoning prestige class right in the DMG that is more cleric friendly, I think.

[333]

I would probably only summon one or two creatures. Anyway, the Malconvoker class would be awesome, but what about the bluff requirement? any ideas for that when i don't have bluff as a class skill? I mean, its only 4 ranks, but I also need it for controlling the evil outsiders I summon. being human I can probably spare the points I need to get those four points, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. Also, the Oracle would be neat, and with the knowledge domain it would fit rather well, but I don't know...

Any other prestige classes you guys can think of? Also, My DM wants this campaign to be "simple", so the builds should be rather straight forward, and definitely not abuse RAW. I was thinking Cleric/Wizard/Malconvoker. I might, if my dm lets me later I might change religions to a god with the summoning domain, maybe not, idk... also, my wizard familiar would prolly be a snake(that's the one that provides a bonus to bluff right?)

And the are you thinking of the Thamaturgist? i think its pretty cool, if memory serves.

And the Trickery domain provides Bluff as a starter skill, but silly me is trying to optimize after the fact, which means short of either retconning or finding a reason to change religion, Its to late to get that domain. So atm its a cross-class skill.

[Particle_Man]

IF you are going cleric/arcane anyhow, Sorcerer has bluff as a class skill.

Actually, if you don't mind taking one level in something else, you could go cleric 4, rogue 1 and put 8 ranks into bluff at the rogue level (character level 5, class skill for rogues), then malconvoker when you can and keep plugging 2 for 1 into bluff for non-malconvoker, non-rogue levels after 5th character level).

Just a thought.

What else . . . isn't there a feat somewhere that grants a cleric a third domain?

Yeah, thaumaturgist is what I was thinking of for the DMG. It might be better, given that you have the cleric class there already with the domains already picked.

[333]

I looked at thamaturgist, and five levels with continued spell progression PLUS bonuses to my conjuration seems pretty cool. If I had thought of this before rolling my character I might have done a Clr(with trickery domain)/Malconvoker/Thamaturgist. Hm... is there a prestige class I can qualify for before 5th level that adds Bluff and would benefit my conjuration? Even if its just a 1 level dip, then I could have Clr4/class with bluff and spell progression1/Malconvoker 5/Thamaturgist 5, which would cast spells as a level 14 cleric, be unrestricted in conjurations due to alignment (Does this apply to the Law-Chaos axis as well or is it only the Good-Evil axis?) and my conjurations would be much more powerful. Sacred Exorcist(Name might be wrong, its in complete Divine I think) might be a good option if it has the Bluff class skill, as it also has an ability which provides a bonus to skill rolls against evil outsiders which includes the bluff skill. I also wouldn't mind incorporating a level of wizard to get the scribe scroll feat as well as a snake familiar that would provide another bonus to bluff(unless someone has a better idea for acquiring some bluff bonuses?) and that would make Clr4/Wiz1/???1/Malconvoker5/Thamaturgist5. Or, if I don't want the bonus feat I could dip in Sorcerer for bluff and just take an extra level of cleric. If a class allows you to choose which spell casting class you apply the spell progression to, does it have to be one which meets the required spells for the PrC?
What do you guys think? I might be over complicating this considering everyone else will probably single class the whole campaign. =.=

[Particle_Man]

Oh crap, I think your lawful guys can't summon chaotic guys thing still applies even as a malconvoker. Ouch, no demons for you. Devils are fine though.

If you go cleric/sorcerer, you could add malconvoker levels either to one or the other although generally it is better to add to the higher level one to get access to the better spells sooner.

I think cleric 7/thaumaturgist 5/cleric 8/cosmic descryer (epic) might be the best way to go for you as you are now. Though maybe others on the board can help with your requests - I am not that great at optimizing.

[333]

Is the no chaotic summons RAW or would it be a DM call? Also, Cosmic Descryer might not be available, as I don't know if we're playing to epic levels, but I'll look into it just in case. I'm also gonna pull out complete divine for a non sorcerer route to gain bluff. But, I hafta ask, anyone know a way for a cleric to gain a familiar or other such companion which would provide a bonus to bluff?

Any other classes you guys could suggest? or maybe some feats to consider? Also, what would the benefits be of sticking with a pure Cleric/Thamaturge over a Cleric/Malconvoker/Thamaturge be, other than that 1 lost level of spell progression?

[123456789blaaa]

Google Treatmonks "mastering the malconvoker" guide. It is fantastic

[Suddo]

General Cleric Advice:
Divine Oracle 1: Gets you a domain (2 get you Evasion in armor)
Contemplative 1: Gets you a domain (of your choice)
Church Inquisitor X: Gives you immunities and a domain or two.
Prestige Paladin 2: Only lose 1 level of casting to get Char to Saves, Warhorse, Smite, Detect Evil.
Sacred Exorcist 1: If you get Rebuke Undead at first and then become Good you can get both forms. You also get Detect Evil.
If they let you I'd go Cloister Cleric (from UA). More skills, extra domain and you only lose armor and a a smaller hit die.
If they allow Dragon magazine Mystic Theurge won't hurt that much.

If you want to do a lone cleric then you might actually want to take up the tanking role from the bard. Divine Might (I think) gives you BAB = Level and +6 Str which can turn you into a melee monster. I've always thought someone who can beat the fighter at his own game and can cast is a lone character.

[333]

I'll look into those, and see what I can come up with. Some extra domains would be amazing, especially if I could get trickery. So I have plenty of classes to choose from, how about feats or magical items to look out for?

[Particle_Man]

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells
A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

That is from the Cleric side.

I think the Malconvoker allows one to cast evil spells without penalty even if one is good (otherwise the class has little point), but it doesn't do anything for casting chaotic spells, IIRC.

[333]

Just read the Malconvoker entry, it says "For the purpose only of casting conjuration spells you can ignore any restrictions that forbid you from casting spells of certain alignments" I read that to include spells given the Chaotic descriptor when summoning demons, but it could also apply to Chaotic Good outsiders. Malconvoker also protects from alignment changes when casting Evil spells from the conjuration school

[Particle_Man]

Well in that case, that is fine. Now you just have to figure out how best to get there from where you are.