Psionic PrC with full BAB?

[Morph Bark]

My current character is a dipster with a few levels in Monk, Barbarian, Fighter, Warblade and Psychic Warrior. I intend to go further with psionic powers, but I don't want to lose out on BAB and would rather get class features than just bonus feats from a limited list.

By this I mean that I want a PrC with full BAB that fully advances my manifester levels from my Psychic Warrior levels. If that is not possible, something as close to that ideal as possible would be peachy as well.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, there's always Slayer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/slayer.htm)...

[Rejusu]

Well you're already losing a lot of manifester levels from all those dips to the point where if you've taken more than one level (which I'm guessing is likely) in any of the non-psy warr classes you've already lost out on the ability to manifest 6th level powers. If you have only taken one level in each then any PrC will definitely disqualify you from 6th level powers as going into any Psionic PrC will lose you a manifester level.

Personally I'd say you're best off just not bothering with Psychic Warrior unless you can get at least 4th level powers. First thing you'll need to do at any rate is make sure you have the practised manifester feat as you've already lost a bunch of ML.

Go at least two levels into PsyWarr so you can take the Mantled Warrior ACF at level 2. You lose your bonus feat for that level but you gain the benefits of two feats (Tap Mantle and Don Mantle) as well as an expanded power list. This is kind of essential if you want to gain access to powers like metamorphosis as if you don't get the ability to manifest 5th level powers you can't use expanded knowledge to pick it up.

As for your PrC options... they're pretty limited. Probably the best one is Slayer (SRD/XPH), full BAB, 9/10 ML progression, and cool class features like a persistent personal mind blank at level 9. The rest of their class features are kind of situational though. Sanctified Mind is the other option but again it suffers from situational class features.

Both require some fairly meh feats too.

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Why not War Mind? It looks like the most obvious choice. It's also a very good PrC.

[Lateral]

Why not War Mind? It looks like the most obvious choice. It's also a very good PrC.

It doesn't advance your Psychic Warrior progression, just its own.

[Dusk Eclipse]

There is the Psychokinetic champion (psionic adaptation of Abjurant Champion) and the GhosBreaker from Hyperconcious (a 5/5 manifesting and BAB class); but other than those two I don't recall any other.

Edit: Pathfinder's Warmind can advance Psychic Warrior manifesting (yes I know we are talking about 3.5; but figured out I should mention it for the sake of completeness)

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

It doesn't advance your Psychic Warrior progression, just its own.well he also said that if it was impossible, something as close to that ideal as possible would be peachy as well. :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

It doesn't advance your Psychic Warrior progression, just its own.

In Pathfinder, it can be used to advance Psychic Warrior (and only Psychic Warrior) progression 10/10.

In 3.5, the only options are Slayer, Sanctified Mind and Psychokinetic Champion.

[Draz74]

In Pathfinder, it can be used to advance Psychic Warrior (and only Psychic Warrior) progression 10/10.

In 3.5, the only options are Slayer, Sanctified Mind and Psychokinetic Champion.

Or homebrew, e.g. Ephemeral Blade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5883542).

[Fax Celestis]

Also Psionics Expanded (the second PF psi book) has...nothing, actually. The closest is the Sighted Seeker (3/4 BAB, 8/10 manifesting), the Metaforge (1/1 BAB, 1/1 aegis suit, 1/1 mind blade), and the Psicrystal Imprinter (1/2 BAB, 1/1 manifesting).

[Morph Bark]

In Pathfinder, it can be used to advance Psychic Warrior (and only Psychic Warrior) progression 10/10.

In 3.5, the only options are Slayer, Sanctified Mind and Psychokinetic Champion.

I had to look for a bit, since I had never heard of that before, but now that I have found that it is frankly the perfect option. Thanks! I might need to put it up with my DM, but combining it with Ardent instead of Psychic Warrior sounds like it would make it awesome. :smallbiggrin:

[Person_Man]

Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness) is 6 level, full BAB PrC which provides 5/6 caster or manifester progression (player's choice, and you can explicitly change which you take each level) with the dead level being the first level of the class. It also has some semi-useful class abilities, including Power Resistance based on your HD, which counts as Spell Resistance if your DM is using the transparency rules.

[Elfinor]

Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) also fits the bill, in case your DM disallows your current option.

[danzibr]

Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) also fits the bill, in case your DM disallows your current option.
Dang, beat me to it.

It only has 5/10 ML progression, but... it's really cool.

[Rejusu]

Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) also fits the bill, in case your DM disallows your current option.

Well the OP wants something that fully advances their psychic warrior power progression so it doesn't fit the bill. Plus Psychic weapon master is just an awful awful PrC and should never be recommended to anyone.

[Morph Bark]

Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) also fits the bill, in case your DM disallows your current option.

Sadly, that would be the worse possible choice out of all the options. Not only has it only half ML progression, it also requires a crystal weapon to bond to, and my character fights unarmed. The Ardent and PrC levels are to replace some levels I lost or threw out of my build once I realized that the build I had been playing with wasn't correct due to having a vital feat that I couldn't have gotten at the level I got it at (prereq-wise and it was also one feat too much).

I am having her take the Physical Power and Force mantles as primary mantles and Freedom as secondary, getting Expansion and Inertial Armor through feats. Expansion will work awesomely in synch with her Mountain Rage since she is a Goliath, plus comboing with Dungeoncrasher, Knockback, Shock Trooper and Pounce.

[shadow_archmagi]

What level is your game going till?

[Grim Reader]

While we are on the subject, I don't know psionics well. Does anyone know of a full-bab psionic base class?

Not a homebrew. It doesn't have to be particularily good, just give a few PP and full BaB over the first four levels.

[Answerer]

Reasonably sure that none exists.

[Lateral]

Nah. Not even the Soulborn. Y'can go for War Mind, though.

[Morph Bark]

What level is your game going till?

We are currently level 10, 11 soon, and likely will be going on until at least 13. My levels of Monk 2/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2 are set in stone.

[Cieyrin]

Well the OP wants something that fully advances their psychic warrior power progression so it doesn't fit the bill. Plus Psychic weapon master is just an awful awful PrC and should never be recommended to anyone.

How exactly is it awful? If by awful you mean it only progresses 5/10 ML, then you're being rather shortsighted, as it provides full BAB and has the Kensai enchanting ability, plus provides feat boosts you can't get anywhere else. Even with it being half-manifesting, you'll still get to 5th level powers on a Psychic Warrior/Psychic Weapon Master by a good margin and well before 20th, which isn't weak by any means. It's not Slayer good but it's not worthless either.


Nah. Not even the Soulborn. Y'can go for War Mind, though.

Soulborn isn't psionic, it's Incarnum. :smallconfused: Also horribly written, though some of the melds are worth picking up on an Incarnate or anybody else.

[Rejusu]

How exactly is it awful? If by awful you mean it only progresses 5/10 ML, then you're being rather shortsighted, as it provides full BAB and has the Kensai enchanting ability, plus provides feat boosts you can't get anywhere else. Even with it being half-manifesting, you'll still get to 5th level powers on a Psychic Warrior/Psychic Weapon Master by a good margin and well before 20th, which isn't weak by any means. It's not Slayer good but it's not worthless either.

Well for a start there's the half manifesting progression on a class that already has a lower manifesting progression than usual (assuming you take it on a Psy Warr). Taking all the levels in it cuts off the Psychic Warriors ability to manifest 6th level powers as well as leaving you with a much much smaller PP pool, on a class that's already starved for PP. That's just the first reason too.

The second is it requires SIX feats to get into. Six feats which (barring Power attack and maybe Psionic weapon) aren't even that good. And that's not even where the feat tax ends, because to actually get anything out of the class features you have to already have the feats in question. Otherwise you're just getting bonus feats, which Psy Warr gives anyway. So in addition to the six feats you need already you also need Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, and Whirlwind attack (which incidentally means you also need Spring attack and Combat Expertise).

And what do you get for this massive investment? Full BAB, some okay feat boosts (the only one really worth mentioning is the wisdom bonus for combat reflexes) and the ability to spend XP instead of gold to enchant your weapon plus some limited use abilities that are barely worth mentioning.

It's not just "not Slayer good", it's not as good as just playing a straight Psychic warrior. You have to spend pretty much all your feats just to make it work and that severely limits what you can actually do with your build. Not to mention that if you take the Soulbound weapon ACF you can get a similar weapon enchant ability that doesn't cost XP and can be augmented with power points. So in my opinion it is pretty worthless.

[Rubik]

Reasonably sure that none exists.The marksman is a full BAB base class from Untapped Potential, and it's a pretty potent archery class. It's got a terrible pp progression, but it's got some really good low-cost powers and there are some excellent ways to get lots of pp, cost reducers, and pp recharging for fairly cheap.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm playing a marksman now, and honestly it doesn't really need more than it has. I spend most of my PP on manifesting prevenom weapon on my bow once a combat, burst if I need some speed, or inevitable strike if I really need to land a shot. In a few levels, I'm planning on taking Expanded Knowledge for strength of my enemy so I can deal STR and CON damage with every arrow.

[Cieyrin]

Well for a start there's the half manifesting progression on a class that already has a lower manifesting progression than usual (assuming you take it on a Psy Warr). Taking all the levels in it cuts off the Psychic Warriors ability to manifest 6th level powers as well as leaving you with a much much smaller PP pool, on a class that's already starved for PP. That's just the first reason too.

Psywars get most of their PP from Wis, anyways. The Bonus point table doesn't differentiate by class, you get the same amount as any Psion, Wilder, Ardent or Lurk. Add in a quiver of Manifester arrows, cognizance crystals and rainbow ioun stones as needed, you even get a free cognizance crystal with the bonded weapon. Psionic characters already know that they shouldn't be nova or fully charge every power, psywars especially, as they know they'll run out fast if they do that.


The second is it requires SIX feats to get into. Six feats which (barring Power attack and maybe Psionic weapon) aren't even that good. And that's not even where the feat tax ends, because to actually get anything out of the class features you have to already have the feats in question. Otherwise you're just getting bonus feats, which Psy Warr gives anyway. So in addition to the six feats you need already you also need Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical, and Whirlwind attack (which incidentally means you also need Spring attack and Combat Expertise).

And what do you get for this massive investment? Full BAB, some okay feat boosts (the only one really worth mentioning is the wisdom bonus for combat reflexes) and the ability to spend XP instead of gold to enchant your weapon plus some limited use abilities that are barely worth mentioning.

If you enter at PsyWar 7 or 8, you have 3-4 bonus feats to absorb the prereqs or extra feats. You can also pick up Mobility as an armor special ability, so you can take it and save yourself the slot. Get a +1 Mobility Dastana or Buckler and you don't even have to use the slots up on your main armor. If you don't care about the higher feats, you don't have to go that far into the class, which gets you back manifesting, powers and bonus feats. Many PrCs are better if you don't take it fully, this one's no exception. If all you want is the Combat Reflexes boost, then get out at PWM4 and continue your build elsewhere.

As for the limited abilities, Psionic Damage can be used beyond beyond the uses per day for PP. Increased Multiplier can't but it only happens when you crit, so it's handy for getting more out of Burst abilities on high crit weapons. They're both handy for making sure you don't get screwed by the dice. I realize damage is more about bonuses than dice but it gives you control of when and where it goes off.


It's not just "not Slayer good", it's not as good as just playing a straight Psychic warrior. You have to spend pretty much all your feats just to make it work and that severely limits what you can actually do with your build. Not to mention that if you take the Soulbound weapon ACF you can get a similar weapon enchant ability that doesn't cost XP and can be augmented with power points. So in my opinion it is pretty worthless.

Soulbound, while nice, locks up one of your limited power choices and absorbs a large chunk of PP if you want a decent weapon. The bonded weapon allows you to customize your weapon without having to worry about crafters and is a one-time expense and provides you with PP as a cognizance crystal, which you can buff by making your bonded weapon Psychic or have a Greater Magic Weapon put on it to get more out of the Cognizance crystal aspect. It also lasts more than one combat, since it's around longer than 1 minute per level, and doesn't take 1 round to draw forth, the normal manifesting time for the Soulbound Weapon every time you want it. So yes, there are some distinct advantages to PWM over Soulbound Weapons.

[Rubik]

Psywars get most of their PP from Wis, anyways. The Bonus point table doesn't differentiate by class, you get the same amount as any Psion, Wilder, Ardent or Lurk. Add in a quiver of Manifester arrows, cognizance crystals and rainbow ioun stones as needed, you even get a free cognizance crystal with the bonded weapon. Psionic characters already know that they shouldn't be nova or fully charge every power, psywars especially, as they know they'll run out fast if they do that.
Just to point out, this total is based on your manifester level, which the PrC murderizes.

[Answerer]

Practiced Manifester gets back all but 1 of those, though.

[Rubik]

Practiced Manifester gets back all but 1 of those, though.And is yet another required feat for a character based on a feat-starved system with an insanely feat-starved PrC.

[HunterOfJello]

First things first: There is a list of online Psionic PrCs from the WotC website that you can find at https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/psi . It has all sorts of stuff there including ACFs and new powers. The powers mostly suck, but Summon Item is pretty damn sweet.

The Psychic Warrior Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162701) from our own zugschef on the GiTP forms is also a nice guide to the ins and outs of playing a Psychic Warrior type character.

As a final note: It would be helpful to see your full character progression of what classes, feats, and set up your character has. It looks like your character might benefit from a good 'ol fashioned Retraining or Rebuilding session PHB2 style. It depends on how your DM feels about it, but changing things around just a little bit on a character by replacing 1 old feat with a new one or 1 class level to a different class can make a HUGE difference in a character. I understand completely if you want to keep your character exactly as it is now, but a little bit of retraining can be a good thing.

It's also worth noting (and you can take this to your DM) that there are strict rules on Retraining in the PHB2. You can only do 1 change per level, and the change costs both time in game, effort, and gold. More info is available in the PHB2 pg 192.

~~~~~~~~


Storm Disciple from CP has full bab, good will and fort, d10, and 3/5 progression. It would require a feat to get into and doesn't have any real awesome abilities though.

Legacy Chapion from Weapons of Legacy has 3/4 BAB, good will, d8, and 8/10 progression. It requires a legacy weapons and the "least legacy" feat. How that feat is obtained (whether by completing the ritual or by taking the feat as normal) is up to your DM. (I think that the general consensus is that doing the stupid rituals and paying the costs are enough to gain the feats instead of taking them as one of your normal feats.)

Slayer is probably your best bet. The SRD version is better than the PHX version, so use that one if you get the chance.

War Mind may not look great since you already have levels in Psychic Warrior, but it is a pretty good prestige class. It has full BAB, full progression in it's own way, good fort and reflex, d10, and access to some very good abilities. The Sweeping Strike ability really sticks out because it allows you use a single target attack on 2 enemies. This breaks the traditional law of being only able to attack 1 enemy with any specific type of attack. The Iron Chef Optimization Challenge XII (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346) had the special ingredient of using Warmind and had some extremely surprising results. Mixing Sweeping Strike with ToB can lead to a number of impressive results.

Sanctified Mind from Lords of Madness is probably your best bet in this situation. Requires Iron Will which isn't a great feat, but isn't absolutely useless. You get 5/6 progression, Full BAB, good fort and will, 4+int with a good class skill list, and a handful of good abilities. The premiere ability that sanctified minds get is the fact that they can avoid getting dazed. This is will give multiclass wizards and Celerity users raging hard-ons. The class is halfway decent against manifesters, and will be more useful assuming there are a decent number of them in your campaign. The Cleansing Strike ability isn't too well defined about whether it's a 1/day ability or 1/psionic focus ability. You should adamently argue to your DM that it should be 1/psionic focus, but don't be too dissapointed if it's not. Disrupting Blow can be fun even if it's only 2/day. Hard to Hold is fun IMO since it improves getting out of grapples and that can be a very good ability if an enemy goes for that strategy. Grappling is a fun and extremely overcomplex part of d&d that can allow a character specced for it gain a win over a far superior enemy. Finally, the Power Resistance isn't too terrible and it's VERY important to note that the resistance is 5 + character level. That is not class level, but character level. If you have 15 levels with Sanctified Mind 5 included, then that's PR 20 not PR 10.


~~~~

I hope that all this info helps and that your character comes out as fun as possible for you. It already sounds like a cool PC and can only get cooler from here on.

[rollforeigninit]

If Untapped Potential is on the table, more options do present themselves.

Enlightened Protector- full BAB 8/10 Manifester level (eventually gains the ability to gain focus as a swift action

Knight Meditant- Full BAB- 6/10 manifester Excellent use of DSP's excellent Mantra Feats

DSP has done positively great things for Psionics and they do have a SRD here. (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/home)

They are also the official home of Psionics for Pathfinder.

[Cieyrin]

Just to point out, this total is based on your manifester level, which the PrC murderizes.

Depending on how high your Wis is, you still get an extra 1-4 PP each time your ML goes up, which is still an increase of 25-50% on the base PsyWar levels. Plus, quiver of Manifester arrows takes care of a lot of power usage to keep you going, as you draw it as a free action (since it's ammo), manifest and then drop as a free action to free your hand for your two-handed weapon or whatever. I'm not saying you're going to be competing with full casters but PsyWars are self-buffers, so it matters somewhat less than it may otherwise.

[Rejusu]

Psywars get most of their PP from Wis, anyways. The Bonus point table doesn't differentiate by class, you get the same amount as any Psion, Wilder, Ardent or Lurk. Add in a quiver of Manifester arrows, cognizance crystals and rainbow ioun stones as needed, you even get a free cognizance crystal with the bonded weapon. Psionic characters already know that they shouldn't be nova or fully charge every power, psywars especially, as they know they'll run out fast if they do that.

No but the bonus PP does differentiate by manifester level. Your PP (base OR bonus) doesn't scale with any class levels that don't grant you manifester levels. If you don't take practised manifester (which is yet another feat you have to sink into Psychic Weapon Master) then you lose 5 levels of bonus PP, and 1 level of bonus PP if you don't take it. While the latter isn't that much of a big deal you've got to remember that either way you're still losing 5 levels of base PP progression. Which is roughly about 50 PP, that's a lot and it's hard to make that difference up with more wisdom alone.

It's also not worth bringing manifester arrows into it as that's a trick that most DM's would immediately throw out the window. But if your DM does allow it then frankly they work a lot better on a character with a higher manifester level and more (higher level) powers rather than being used as a crutch to make up for the flaws in a PrC.


If you enter at PsyWar 7 or 8, you have 3-4 bonus feats to absorb the prereqs or extra feats. You can also pick up Mobility as an armor special ability, so you can take it and save yourself the slot. Get a +1 Mobility Dastana or Buckler and you don't even have to use the slots up on your main armor. If you don't care about the higher feats, you don't have to go that far into the class, which gets you back manifesting, powers and bonus feats. Many PrCs are better if you don't take it fully, this one's no exception. If all you want is the Combat Reflexes boost, then get out at PWM4 and continue your build elsewhere.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that can be used as a prerequisite. It says you "gain the benefits of the Mobility feat" not that you gain the feat itself. Even then reducing the feat requirements by one feat doesn't help that much. And it becomes an even worse option if you don't take it fully. Why would you invest so heavily into fulfilling the prerequisites if you're not going to commit fully to it? You've essentially spent what... about 7 feats (most of which you wouldn't pick up normally for most builds) and 3 manifester levels (which means you'll be a full level of powers behind a regular PsyWar) for what? A slightly better version of combat reflexes, some savings in gold and 5 levels of full BAB?

You may as well just invest in getting more Dex, or use those extra PP you're getting to manifest prowess every round. Or simply just play something better suited to getting lots of AoO's a round if that's the build you're going for.

The reward for the amount of investment required just isn't worth it in the slightest.


Soulbound, while nice, locks up one of your limited power choices and absorbs a large chunk of PP if you want a decent weapon.

Except you lose a LOT more of your limited power choices by going into Psychic Weapon master and the PP usage is kind of irrelevant for the same reason because it's PP that you wouldn't have if you took up Psychic Weapon master. The psychic weapon master also absorbs a large chunk of your XP if you want a decent weapon, which has it's own disadvantages if you're not using the XP river.


The bonded weapon allows you to customize your weapon without having to worry about crafters and is a one-time expense and provides you with PP as a cognizance crystal, which you can buff by making your bonded weapon Psychic or have a Greater Magic Weapon put on it to get more out of the Cognizance crystal aspect.

Which is a very situational advantage. If your DM doesn't allow you occasional access to crafter's that'll upgrade your weapon (or have the enemies drop better weapons) then yeah it has some advantage. But if that's the case you could just use the Psychic Warriors awesome natural weapon options instead. That's the other problem, if your DM does have better weapons drop in the treasure then it kind of obsoletes the point of being able to upgrade your weapon.


It also lasts more than one combat, since it's around longer than 1 minute per level, and doesn't take 1 round to draw forth, the normal manifesting time for the Soulbound Weapon every time you want it. So yes, there are some distinct advantages to PWM over Soulbound Weapons.

It's worth noting that I don't think the Soulbound weapon ACF is particularly good either. I just think it presents a marginal advantage over the PWM PrC simply because it costs a single power/feat (the latter being somewhat mitigated since you gain Weapon focus as a bonus feat) as opposed to 6 (or more) feats and many lost manifester levels.

The problem with Psychic Weapon Master is that pure Psychic Warrior is just almost unilaterally better. Any PrC which makes you worse than your base class is just bad. And by worse I don't just mean mechanically so. Theurges are mechanically worse than straight casters but they can still be interesting options to play as having access to two magic systems can create some fun things to play with.

But PWM takes what's a very flexible and fun class to play (Psychic Warrior) and turns it into a one trick pony, with a trick that isn't even that good.

[Analytica]

DSP psionic ranger is a favourite of mine.

[Grim Reader]

The marksman is a full BAB base class from Untapped Potential, and it's a pretty potent archery class. It's got a terrible pp progression, but it's got some really good low-cost powers and there are some excellent ways to get lots of pp, cost reducers, and pp recharging for fairly cheap.


DSP psionic ranger is a favourite of mine.

Thanks, they'll do:) Just needed to fill in some levels for an Elan without delaying PrC entry, whle grabbing a few PP for the racials.

[Morph Bark]

As a final note: It would be helpful to see your full character progression of what classes, feats, and set up your character has. It looks like your character might benefit from a good 'ol fashioned Retraining or Rebuilding session PHB2 style. It depends on how your DM feels about it, but changing things around just a little bit on a character by replacing 1 old feat with a new one or 1 class level to a different class can make a HUGE difference in a character. I understand completely if you want to keep your character exactly as it is now, but a little bit of retraining can be a good thing.

It's also worth noting (and you can take this to your DM) that there are strict rules on Retraining in the PHB2. You can only do 1 change per level, and the change costs both time in game, effort, and gold. More info is available in the PHB2 pg 192.

Thanks for the note on PHBII. I have taken it up with my DM and he says it will be no problem to change things, since due to a mistake in my previous build it no longer works (misplaced a feat for a PrC that decided most of my build). The training times will likely also be waived. Cost might be much higher though, but I don't think it will be unreasonable.

Build as of now:

Evarya Ormarsdottir, the Fist of the World
Dragonborn Arctic Goliath
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8 (pre racial mods)
Str 20, Dex 11, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 6 (post racial mods and level increases)
Houserules: if a skill ever becomes a class skill at any point, it is forever after treated as a class skill. Intimidate may use Str.

Level 1: Chaos Monk of the Overpowering Way 1, 4 ranks in Tumble, Balance, Concentration, Jump
Flaws: Shaky, Bestial Instinct (-3 on ranged attacks, -2 on all non-natural melee weapon attacks)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike , Power Attack [B], Overchannel [F], Hidden Talent (expansion) [F], Combat Casting
Level 2: Lion Totem Goliath Barbarian 1, 1 rank in Balance, Tumble (5 ranks)
Level 3: Ardent 1, +1 rank Autohypnosis (1 rank), Concentration (5 ranks)
Feat: Extra Rage
Level 4: Chaos Monk of the Overpowering Way 2, +2 ranks in Jump (7 ranks), Nimble Charge skill trick, Twisted Charge skill trick
Feat: Improved Bull Rush [B]
Level 5: Fighter 1, +2 ranks in Jump (8 ranks)
Feat: Leap Attack [B]
Level 6: Fighter 2 (dungeoncrasher) , +2 ranks in Concentration (7 ranks)
Feat: Knockback
Level 7: Ardent 2, +2 ranks in Concentration (9 ranks)
Level 8: Psychokinetic Champion 1, +2 ranks in Concentration (11 ranks)
Level 9: Psychokinetic Champion 2, +1 rank in Concentration (12 ranks), Intimidate (1 rank)
Feat: Shock Trooper
Level 10: Psychokinetic Champion 3, +1 rank in Concentration (13 ranks), Intimidate (2 ranks)
Level 11 (next level, next session): Psychokinetic Champion 4, +1 rank in Concentration (14 ranks), Intimidate (3 ranks)

[B]Powers
32 pp/day, Ardent level 5 (for powers known); Force, Physical Power, Freedom mantles
Expansion (feat), 3 level 1 (adrenaline boost, force screen, inertial armor), 2 level 2 (animal affinity, hustle)
Treasure
+1 transmuting necklace of natural attacks (18600 gp), belt of battle (12000 gp), boots of the battlecharger (2000 gp), greatreach bracers (2000 gp), cold weather outfit (8 gp), cloak of resistance +1 (1000 gp), 1392 gp

Comments on the build are welcome.

Thanks everyone for the help so far. :smallsmile:

[HunterOfJello]

Evarya Ormarsdottir, the Fist of the World
Dragonborn Arctic Goliath
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8 (pre racial mods)
Str 20, Dex 11, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 6 (post racial mods and level increases)
Houserules: if a skill ever becomes a class skill at any point, it is forever after treated as a class skill. Intimidate may use Str.

Level 1: Chaos Monk of the Overpowering Way 1, 4 ranks in Tumble, Balance, Concentration, Jump
Flaws: Shaky, Bestial Instinct (-3 on ranged attacks, -2 on all non-natural melee weapon attacks)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike , Power Attack [B], Overchannel [F], Hidden Talent (expansion) [F], Combat Casting
Level 2: Lion Totem Goliath Barbarian 1, 1 rank in Balance, Tumble (5 ranks)
Level 3: Ardent 1, +1 rank Autohypnosis (1 rank), Concentration (5 ranks)
Feat: Extra Rage
Level 4: Chaos Monk of the Overpowering Way 2, +2 ranks in Jump (7 ranks), Nimble Charge skill trick, Twisted Charge skill trick
Feat: Improved Bull Rush [B]
Level 5: Fighter 1, +2 ranks in Jump (8 ranks)
Feat: Leap Attack [B]
Level 6: Fighter 2 (dungeoncrasher) , +2 ranks in Concentration (7 ranks)
Feat: Knockback
Level 7: Ardent 2, +2 ranks in Concentration (9 ranks)
Level 8: Psychokinetic Champion 1, +2 ranks in Concentration (11 ranks)
Level 9: Psychokinetic Champion 2, +1 rank in Concentration (12 ranks), Intimidate (1 rank)
Feat: Shock Trooper
Level 10: Psychokinetic Champion 3, +1 rank in Concentration (13 ranks), Intimidate (2 ranks)
Level 11 (next level, next session): Psychokinetic Champion 4, +1 rank in Concentration (14 ranks), Intimidate (3 ranks)

[B]Powers
32 pp/day, Ardent level 5 (for powers known); Force, Physical Power, Freedom mantles
Expansion (feat), 3 level 1 (adrenaline boost, force screen, inertial armor), 2 level 2 (animal affinity, hustle)
Treasure
+1 transmuting necklace of natural attacks (18600 gp), belt of battle (12000 gp), boots of the battlecharger (2000 gp), greatreach bracers (2000 gp), cold weather outfit (8 gp), cloak of resistance +1 (1000 gp), 1392 gp

Okay. First things first. Skill tricks cost 2 skill points to acquire and you can only obtain 1 skill trick per level up.

Second, you haven't taken Practiced Manifester. One of the most interesting things about the Ardent class is that after level 1, the ardent gains new powers from a level up to the highest power they can manifest. That means that if a Ardent 2/Fighter 4 has the practiced manifester feat and decides to take another level of Ardent, they choose their new power(s) as if they were a level 7 Ardent. Therefore, an Ardent 3/Fighter 4 can learn 4th level powers. I may not be explaining this very well, but this mechanic is that reason that Ardents are amazing for multiclassing characters.

Third, what's a monk of the "overpowering way" ? Also, why does your character have Improved Unarmed Strike listed as a feat? Monks get that as a class feature. Did you mean Superior Unarmed Strike?

[Morph Bark]

Okay. First things first. Skill tricks cost 2 skill points to acquire and you can only obtain 1 skill trick per level up.

Drat, I didn't know you could only get one per level up. Did use 2 skill points for each though.


Second, you haven't taken Practiced Manifester. One of the most interesting things about the Ardent class is that after level 1, the ardent gains new powers from a level up to the highest power they can manifest. That means that if a Ardent 2/Fighter 4 has the practiced manifester feat and decides to take another level of Ardent, they choose their new power(s) as if they were a level 7 Ardent. Therefore, an Ardent 3/Fighter 4 can learn 4th level powers. I may not be explaining this very well, but this mechanic is that reason that Ardents are amazing for multiclassing characters.

I purposefully didn't take it because most powers I want are low-level or too high in level that I won't be able to take them until Psychokinetic Champion 5 anyway. Hence why I used that feat space for Extra Rage instead.

I know the Ardent is amazing for multiclassing characters, I've made some triple-9 builds with them before and love gestalting them with Druids, Swordsages and Totemists or Incarnates. It's just in here because it is a better option than Psychic Warrior at this point. :smallsmile:


Third, what's a monk of the "overpowering way" ? Also, why does your character have Improved Unarmed Strike listed as a feat? Monks get that as a class feature. Did you mean Superior Unarmed Strike?

Monk of the Overpowering Way and other Monk ACFs are in Unearthed Arcana and the SRD. Basically, it changes the bonus feats you get, in this case nabbing me Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush, two key feats in the build. I listed Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat (b) because they do get it as a bonus feat, though they improve upon it.