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Weirdlet
2012-03-17, 02:24 PM
Because alignment arguments and accusations of racism are depressing. Who here likes orcs? Share your favorite encounters with orcs, a creative way a DM used them, a fun character, the reason you like them, anything.

Bastian Weaver
2012-03-17, 02:46 PM
The only orcs I liked were the worshippers of mighty Giggles, god of slapstick comedy.
Chief half orc, too. Other half, also orc.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-17, 03:10 PM
I love orcs, I make a point of including them in my campaigns. I even came up with lots of orcish subraces for the homebrewed setting I made, with a rich history that even explains the prevalence of half-orcs.

The gist of it is that there were basically five orcish subraces: Obsidian orcs were hedonistic warrior-bards and were both strong and highly physically appealing, Amber orcs were desert nomads (and renowned for their skirmish tactics), Onyx orcs were moutain-dwellers and exceedingly tough, Jade orcs were wise and intelligent scholars (and good spellcasters) and Diamond orcs had freaking WINGS (they were natural arcanists and experts at making magical items).

Then a human subrace (hot-headed, powerful sorcerers, basically) created an empire that took over most of the world (much like the Roman Empire), enslaved the Obsidian and Jade orcs, almost exterminated the Diamond orcs (and plundered their cities for magical riches), drove the Onyx orcs to seclusion and waged a desert border war with the Amber orcs for centuries.

But the Jade orcs cunningly planned for the Empire's destruction, slowly working against it from the inside, and united the five subraces to break free from their oppressors. This led, inevitably, to other enslaved/oppressed/exiled races to join in, and eventually the empire crumbled. Today, orcs are thriving and they're one of the most magnanimous and peaceful races, provided you don't threaten war. If you do, well, let's say they've been there and done that already.

In other settings, I really do like orcs and half-orcs (and sharakim, their smarter cousins). Maybe it's the positive influence WoW has had on the race, but I never saw them as OMG EVUL. It might also be the fact that the concept of "adventurer fodder" (creatures that exist solely for adventurers to murder for loot and XP with a clean conscience, because they're EVIL or some other nonsense) makes me froth with rage. Orcs have their place in fantasy as a race just as valid as elves or dwarves. Let's not make them evil because we're all bloodthirsty ADHD children and we're itching to ram our swords into a juicy bag of XP and gold.

I also have a thing for strong women in sensible armour, so I might be biased in that regard. :smalltongue:

Morty
2012-03-17, 05:08 PM
I like "monster races" in general, and that includes orcs. I like making them a foil for goblins - in that they cooperate instead of goblins serving as cannon fodder - one race being big, bruthish and strong and the other one being small but smart. There's something about that dynamic that I find entertaining.

Endarire
2012-03-17, 05:14 PM
My Orcs are the population majority since the Humans, Elves, and Dwarves nearly destroyed the world.

My Orcs are prominent members of trade houses, even being the leaders of House Felsad, the premier dealer in divine magic.

Figgin of Chaos
2012-03-17, 06:16 PM
In the setting I made a while ago, the Orcs were one of the four races of the world. They lived out in the desert, and worshipped a god called the Fire-Breather.

Death came to the Fire-Breather, as he had to the god of each race, and demanded that the Fire-Breather silence his people and let Death sleep. He threatened to kill the orcs if the Fire-Breather refused. The Fire-Breather cried that his people would shout, sing, rage, and make war; Death could try and silence them if he dared. And so the orcs fight against Death, who comes all to quickly to them.

Weirdlet
2012-03-17, 06:23 PM
That is a particularly lovely description of orcish attitude, Figgin. In my current larp group (NERO), there's a bit in the halforc entry that says bascially that they're grown at four, dead at twenty and old at thirty, and (for lack of a whole lot of other in-game culture writeup) that's something I've been going back to for when I need to figure out what my character's attitude is. Live fast, die young, leave a spectacular amount of trouble behind.

navar100
2012-03-17, 06:30 PM
My DM doesn't use orcs much. They were bad guys early in our group's first campaign a long time ago but since then they are mostly periphery. They have a small nation in the north and don't really cause trouble, but the local church of Justice god can't get over them existing and bring trouble to them. For the most part they can be reasoned with. They really just want respect.

Down south orcs are bit less civilized and more stereotypical but aren't marauding. We have bigger problems to deal with. Recently we found orcs as cannon fodder for the bad guy. One we rescued from mind control. He has potential of being the Cavalier's Cohort.

I like that the orcs aren't chaotic moronic marauders. It's a particular elven house who are the real pain in the tuchus.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-17, 06:38 PM
I like the orc subraces thing mentioned up there... I really wanna go make some different flavors of orc. At least one per elf subrace. Dwarves and gnomes got stone, though. I'm thinking fire-themed, or maybe metal-themed.

horngeek
2012-03-17, 06:53 PM
In one campaign world I had an idea for, Orcs used to be marauders... then one of them took part in saving the entire world. In the aftermath, he became Chief of All Orcs, and preserved their core (proud warriors) while guiding them away from marauding.

In the time of any game, Orcs continue to be proud warriors, but a big part of their culture is fighting for a cause. Just fighting for the heck of it, or so you can get treasure, isn't enough.

Lot of Orc Paladins. :smalltongue:

Shadowknight12
2012-03-17, 09:30 PM
I like the orc subraces thing mentioned up there... I really wanna go make some different flavors of orc. At least one per elf subrace. Dwarves and gnomes got stone, though. I'm thinking fire-themed, or maybe metal-themed.

I made a point of balancing the elven, dwarven, orcish, halfling and human subraces (humans lost their bonus skill points and feat, instead got subraces). Gnomes got the shaft because I hate them and I'm evil like that.


HUMANS

Resourceful and adaptable. Life expectancy: Roughly 80 years. Reproduction rate: Average.

Aventi: (Aquatic, amphibious, +Swim). Explorers, builders, farmers, hunters, warriors, craftsmen, knights and scouts. Fairly easy-going, joyful and curious. Cyan-skinned, white to dark blond hair, green or blue eyes, slim but muscled.

Haerin: (+Survival, +Knowledge(Nature), +Handle Animal, +Ride). Farmers, hunters, animal breeders, rangers, druids, riders. Simple-minded, but warm and generous. Tanned to dark skin, blond to brown or black hair, amber, green or brown eyes, tall and strong.

Ashkyran: (+Knowledge(Arcana), +Knowledge(Religion), +Spellcraft, +Concentration). Scholars, mages, priests, paladins, spellblades, knights. Arrogant, domineering and aggressive. Fair-skinned, unnatural hair colours (especially red), unnatural eye colours (especially red), slim and lanky.

Sserel: (+Appraise, +Bluff, +Diplomacy, +Sense Motive). Desert merchants, traders, explorers, administrators. Shrewd, cunning and silver-tongued. Dark-skinned, brown or black-haired, dark eye colours (usually blue), slim and tall.

Kharathyran: (+Hide, +Move Silently, +Climb, +Balance). Tundra and mountain dwellers. Explorers, risk-takers, miners, scouts, rogues. Quiet, evasive and cold. Pale skin, pale hair colours (usually white), dark eye colours (usually gray), muscled and slow.


ELVES

Cultured and magical (Immune to sleep and dream). Life expectancy: Roughly 400 years. Reproduction rate: Low.

Sun: (+Charisma). Sorcerers, rulers, priests, diplomats, bards, entertainers, artists. Charming, haughty and attractive. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of yellow. Extremely attractive. Usually beautiful voices.

Moon: (+Intelligence). Wizards, scholars, investigators, writers, mathematicians, architects. Smart, disdainful and antisocial. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of gray and blue. Slim and short. Usually piercing eyes.

Star: (+Wisdom). Priests, astrologers, astronomers, mystics, seekers, diviners, oracles. Wise, secretive and enigmatic. Hair and skin of darkest, solid black. Skin glitters with star-like dots under a clear night sky. Eyes of diverse shades of violet. Slim and short. Usually speak in whispers.

Wood: (+Dexterity). Craftsmen, farmers, rangers, druids, builders, artists, animal handlers. Nimble, quick-witted and seductive. Hair, eyes and skin of wooden/earthen/brown tones. Tall and slim. Usually very touchy-feely.

Wild: (+Strength). Hunters, warriors, explorers, healers, guardians, rangers. Strong, brash and impetuous. Hair, eyes and skin of leafy/forest/green tones. Tall and muscled. Usually have "animal magnetism."

Snow: (+Constitution). Barbarians, warriors, hunters, miners, smiths, builders. Stubborn, uncivilised and honourable. Hair, eyes and skin of white/pale tones. Big and muscled. Usually have stern features.

Wind: (Flight). Scouts, messengers, archers, druids, rangers, traders, merchants. Swift, fickle and elusive. Hair, eyes and skin of light and pastel green/blue/yellow/rose tones, delicate feathered wings of vibrant colours (which fade in intensity from origin to the tips of the feathers). Slim and short. Usually very graceful.

Drow: (+Knowledge(Dungeoneering), +Climb). Outcasts, drifters, exiles, hermits, hunters, mystics. Bitter, isolationist and antisocial. Blend of features from all 7 surface races, but Autumn-touched (skin, hair and eyes of earthen/Autumn tones, average build). Usually gruff.


DWARVES

Stout and knowledgeable (Stonecunning. Ability to notice secret doors). Life expectancy: Roughly 500 years. Reproduction rate: Very low.

Gold: (+Charisma). Traders, diplomats, explorers, merchants, wanderers, bards, sorcerers, smiths. Charming, brash and passionate. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of yellow. Slim and attractive. Affinity for the forge and fire magic.

Silver: (+Intelligence). Scholars, builders, wizards, inventors, craftsmen, architects, mathematicians. Smart, patient and thoughtful. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of gray and blue. Slim and tall. Affinity for complex calculations and water magic.

Bronze: (+Wisdom). Clerics, druids, counsellors, sages, oracles, teachers, healers. Wise, careful and agreeable. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of bronze. Average build. Affinity for knowledge and earth magic.

Mithral: (+Dexterity). Archers, messengers, craftsmen, artists, scouts, watchers, runners. Detail-oriented, focused and intense. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of white and light gray. Slim and short. Affinity for delicate handiwork and wind magic.

Cold Iron: (+Strength). Warriors, hunters, assassins, spies, rogues, entertainers. Seductive, secretive and ruthless. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of black and dark gray. Muscled build. Affinity for sneaking and seduction magic.

Adamantium: (+Constitution). Guardians, defenders, warriors, miners, builders, workers. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of grayish violet. Muscled and tall. Affinity for endurance and defensive magic.

Crystal: (+deflection AC). Leaders, bureaucrats, judges, generals, nobles, clerks, bookkeepers, scholars. Hair, skin and eyes of very light shades (usually white), slight refulgence in skin and eyes. Average build.

Steel: (+attack bonus). Smiths, soldiers, warriors, engineers, siege weapon builders, warfare experts, guards, craftsmen. Hair usually black or shades of gray, eyes of rusty or gray colour, slightly grayish skin, with a tinge of red. Strong but average in build.


HALFLINGS

Swift and sneaky (Small size, +all saves (luck), +Hide, +Move Silently). Life expectancy: Roughly 100 years. Reproduction rate: Average.

Sylen: (+Dex, +Tumble, +Sleight of Hand, +Open Lock). Thieves, scouts, rogues, explorers, adventurers, risk-takers, entertainers. Any and all hair/skin/eye colour, but always exceedingly normal for the region of birth. Slim and tall.

Aris: (+Cha, +Gather Information, +Bluff, +Diplomacy). Diplomats, carousers, bards, entertainers, companions, adventurers. Any and all hair/skin/eye colour, but always alluring to the eye. Usually very attractive. Slim and of average build.

Theris: (+Wis, +Knowledge(Nature), +Survival, +Spot). Scouts, rangers, druids, farmers, animal tamers, hunters, priests, sages. Any and all hair/skin/eye colour, but always "natural" for the region of birth. Stout and of average build.

Hags are found amongst all three halfling bloodlines and some claim that their wisdom and power is a gift from the halfling and dwarven goddess. Some believe it's a curse, instead, but none say that in their presence.

Hag, Annis: As per the MM, but Small-sized. Charmers and beguilers, use glamor and illusion to insinuate themselves into positions of social power and authority. From there, they usually act as guides and advisors to the community.

Hag, Night: As per the MM, only Monstrous Humanoids instead of Outsiders and Small-sized. Guardians of the dead, night-dwellers, they act as liaisons between the living and the undead in a community, trying to satisfy both groups. If there are no undead in a community, she guards graveyards from defilement.

Hag, Dusk: As per the ECS, but Small-sized. Oracles and hermits who have the ability to peer into the mists of time and grant prophetic dreams. They also grant boons of revelry to those who undertake quests for them.

Hag, Green: As per the MM, but Small-sized. Forest and swamp-dwellers, they avoid society but are often sought after for their ability to bring prosperity to the fields. They are also repositories of natural lore and druidic knowledge. Coveys are known to undertake mysterious rituals to enhance or bring prosperity to entire forests.

Hag, Shrieking: As per Unapproachable East, but Small-sized. Flying hag that rides on storms, is usually very loud and brings rain. Very sought after in dry locations. Fickle, but easy to convince to go elsewhere.

Hag, Marzanna: As per Frostburn, but Small-sized. Dour, serious hag who provides shelter to travellers in cold locations. Visitors are expected to help the Marzanna in whatever she needs in exchange for hospitality in the dire cold.

Hag, Dune: As per Sandstorm, but Small-sized. Warm, kind hag, able to sense oasis, the most powerful ones can create them permanently. They offer safety and a place to rest in the middle of the desert. Like Marzannas, they expect visitors to repay their hospitality with aid.

Hag, Knoll: Small-sized. Guardians and seekers of subterranean passages, ruins, secret passageways, barrows, caverns, strange underground locations and storage facilities. Usually sought after to gain entrance to or protect buried treasures, a community's storage location or a hidden passage.

Hag, Horizon: Small-sized. Eternal wanderers who live to travel and visit new lands. The most powerful can cross the boundaries between planes. They are fluent in many languages and proficient with teleportation. Also able to summon creatures from the planes/places they've visited (requires pact with the hag first).

Hag, Bog: As per Oriental Adventures, but Small-sized and except that they do not need to harvest the skin of others, they are able to knit/craft themselves skin to wear. Astrologers and astronomers, they cling to the edges of humanoid civilization, delving into natural lore and are relied upon as herbalists and healers to the surrounding community.

Hag, Hedge: Small-sized. Hedge hags are the origin of the term "hedge witch." Their life-giving powers are usually relied upon heavily by their communities. Their presence is almost always welcomed regardless of how difficult their personality has become. The most common and ubiquitous of the hags, hence the use of their term to refer to any self-taught female spellcaster.


GNOMES

Magical and reclusive (Small size, +Hide, +Move Silently). Life expectancy: Roughly 300 years. Reproduction rate: Low.

No subraces. They avoid all other races, live underground or in secluded forested areas. Very deceitful.


ORCS

Determined and proud (Always get one extra try if they fail a save, +all saves (racial), +Concentration). Life expectancy: Roughly 200 years. Reproduction rate: Slightly low.

Obsidian: (+Strength, +Charisma). Assimilated into the Ashkyran Empire as slaves. Former culture used to be of hedonistic warrior-bards. The empire turned them into prostitutes, servants, shock troops and manual workers. Glossy dusky/black skin, eyes of blue/violet/gray tones, light-coloured hair (usually silver), muscled and tall. Usually extremely beautiful (especially in a ruggedly handsome way). Lack tusks, have small horns instead.

Amber: (+Dexterity, +land speed, +to attack rolls). Beset by the Askhyran Empire for centuries, waged many skirmishes across the Desert of Shifting Dunes, were never fully conquered. Exceedingly good fighters. Dark or reddish skin, amber/orange eyes, brown/auburn/blond/red hair, slim but muscled.

Onyx: (+Constitution, DR 5/Adamantium, +natural armour). Besieged by the Ashkyran Empire for centuries, unable to expand outside their mountain fortresses and caverns, but never conquered. Exceedingly tough. Skin of grayish or light pastel colours, with markings of darker colours (like smoky onyx or marble). Hair of different hues, usually emulating the colours of onyx stones. Eyes of any colour. Big and muscled.

Diamond: (Flight). Almost completely exterminated by the Ashkyran Empire, their cities plundered for magical secrets. Only survived one kingdom, hidden away in the high peaks of the Mourning Mountains. Natural arcanists and creators of magical items. Extraordinary variety of hair/eye/skin/wings colours (in any combination). Slim and short. Wings are impressively large. Superior part of wings is feathered, inferior part is bat-like, they are attached to the waist/lower back and not between shoulder blades, they have sharp talons at the tips, they can be folded either at the back or over the front (depends on what flank they want to protect). Wings are surprisingly tough and not delicate in the slightest.

Jade: (+Intelligence, +Wisdom). Surrendered to the Ashkyran Empire and gained positions of influence as advisors, scholars and assistants, from which they were able to plot the Empire's downfall. Naturally good at any magic that requires preparation and research. Skin/hair/eyes of different jade tones that shift hues minutely from day to day. Slim and tall.

So yeah, I tried to balance elves with dwarves and orcs with humans. Hags became a type of halfling at a player's request and gnomes were largely ignored.

Doorhandle
2012-03-17, 11:08 PM
Gnomes got the shaft because I hate them and I'm evil like that.

You just hate 'em cuz their short. :smallbiggrin:

I don't mind orcs or half-orcs myself, particually after pathfinder buffed them, but most of my favor goes out to the bat-**** insane Orks from warhammer and the like, M/Gork bless their violent, part-fungus hearts.

Admiral Squish
2012-03-17, 11:46 PM
I made a point of balancing the elven, dwarven, orcish, halfling and human subraces (humans lost their bonus skill points and feat, instead got subraces). Gnomes got the shaft because I hate them and I'm evil like that.


HUMANS

Resourceful and adaptable. Life expectancy: Roughly 80 years. Reproduction rate: Average.

Aventi: (Aquatic, amphibious, +Swim). Explorers, builders, farmers, hunters, warriors, craftsmen, knights and scouts. Fairly easy-going, joyful and curious. Cyan-skinned, white to dark blond hair, green or blue eyes, slim but muscled.

Haerin: (+Survival, +Knowledge(Nature), +Handle Animal, +Ride). Farmers, hunters, animal breeders, rangers, druids, riders. Simple-minded, but warm and generous. Tanned to dark skin, blond to brown or black hair, amber, green or brown eyes, tall and strong.

Ashkyran: (+Knowledge(Arcana), +Knowledge(Religion), +Spellcraft, +Concentration). Scholars, mages, priests, paladins, spellblades, knights. Arrogant, domineering and aggressive. Fair-skinned, unnatural hair colours (especially red), unnatural eye colours (especially red), slim and lanky.

Sserel: (+Appraise, +Bluff, +Diplomacy, +Sense Motive). Desert merchants, traders, explorers, administrators. Shrewd, cunning and silver-tongued. Dark-skinned, brown or black-haired, dark eye colours (usually blue), slim and tall.

Kharathyran: (+Hide, +Move Silently, +Climb, +Balance). Tundra and mountain dwellers. Explorers, risk-takers, miners, scouts, rogues. Quiet, evasive and cold. Pale skin, pale hair colours (usually white), dark eye colours (usually gray), muscled and slow.


ELVES

Cultured and magical (Immune to sleep and dream). Life expectancy: Roughly 400 years. Reproduction rate: Low.

Sun: (+Charisma). Sorcerers, rulers, priests, diplomats, bards, entertainers, artists. Charming, haughty and attractive. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of yellow. Extremely attractive. Usually beautiful voices.

Moon: (+Intelligence). Wizards, scholars, investigators, writers, mathematicians, architects. Smart, disdainful and antisocial. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of gray and blue. Slim and short. Usually piercing eyes.

Star: (+Wisdom). Priests, astrologers, astronomers, mystics, seekers, diviners, oracles. Wise, secretive and enigmatic. Hair and skin of darkest, solid black. Skin glitters with star-like dots under a clear night sky. Eyes of diverse shades of violet. Slim and short. Usually speak in whispers.

Wood: (+Dexterity). Craftsmen, farmers, rangers, druids, builders, artists, animal handlers. Nimble, quick-witted and seductive. Hair, eyes and skin of wooden/earthen/brown tones. Tall and slim. Usually very touchy-feely.

Wild: (+Strength). Hunters, warriors, explorers, healers, guardians, rangers. Strong, brash and impetuous. Hair, eyes and skin of leafy/forest/green tones. Tall and muscled. Usually have "animal magnetism."

Snow: (+Constitution). Barbarians, warriors, hunters, miners, smiths, builders. Stubborn, uncivilised and honourable. Hair, eyes and skin of white/pale tones. Big and muscled. Usually have stern features.

Wind: (Flight). Scouts, messengers, archers, druids, rangers, traders, merchants. Swift, fickle and elusive. Hair, eyes and skin of light and pastel green/blue/yellow/rose tones, delicate feathered wings of vibrant colours (which fade in intensity from origin to the tips of the feathers). Slim and short. Usually very graceful.

Drow: (+Knowledge(Dungeoneering), +Climb). Outcasts, drifters, exiles, hermits, hunters, mystics. Bitter, isolationist and antisocial. Blend of features from all 7 surface races, but Autumn-touched (skin, hair and eyes of earthen/Autumn tones, average build). Usually gruff.


DWARVES

Stout and knowledgeable (Stonecunning. Ability to notice secret doors). Life expectancy: Roughly 500 years. Reproduction rate: Very low.

Gold: (+Charisma). Traders, diplomats, explorers, merchants, wanderers, bards, sorcerers, smiths. Charming, brash and passionate. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of yellow. Slim and attractive. Affinity for the forge and fire magic.

Silver: (+Intelligence). Scholars, builders, wizards, inventors, craftsmen, architects, mathematicians. Smart, patient and thoughtful. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of gray and blue. Slim and tall. Affinity for complex calculations and water magic.

Bronze: (+Wisdom). Clerics, druids, counsellors, sages, oracles, teachers, healers. Wise, careful and agreeable. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of bronze. Average build. Affinity for knowledge and earth magic.

Mithral: (+Dexterity). Archers, messengers, craftsmen, artists, scouts, watchers, runners. Detail-oriented, focused and intense. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of white and light gray. Slim and short. Affinity for delicate handiwork and wind magic.

Cold Iron: (+Strength). Warriors, hunters, assassins, spies, rogues, entertainers. Seductive, secretive and ruthless. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of black and dark gray. Muscled build. Affinity for sneaking and seduction magic.

Adamantium: (+Constitution). Guardians, defenders, warriors, miners, builders, workers. Hair, skin and eyes in various shades of grayish violet. Muscled and tall. Affinity for endurance and defensive magic.

Crystal: (+deflection AC). Leaders, bureaucrats, judges, generals, nobles, clerks, bookkeepers, scholars. Hair, skin and eyes of very light shades (usually white), slight refulgence in skin and eyes. Average build.

Steel: (+attack bonus). Smiths, soldiers, warriors, engineers, siege weapon builders, warfare experts, guards, craftsmen. Hair usually black or shades of gray, eyes of rusty or gray colour, slightly grayish skin, with a tinge of red. Strong but average in build.


HALFLINGS

Swift and sneaky (Small size, +all saves (luck), +Hide, +Move Silently). Life expectancy: Roughly 100 years. Reproduction rate: Average.

Sylen: (+Dex, +Tumble, +Sleight of Hand, +Open Lock). Thieves, scouts, rogues, explorers, adventurers, risk-takers, entertainers. Any and all hair/skin/eye colour, but always exceedingly normal for the region of birth. Slim and tall.

Aris: (+Cha, +Gather Information, +Bluff, +Diplomacy). Diplomats, carousers, bards, entertainers, companions, adventurers. Any and all hair/skin/eye colour, but always alluring to the eye. Usually very attractive. Slim and of average build.

Theris: (+Wis, +Knowledge(Nature), +Survival, +Spot). Scouts, rangers, druids, farmers, animal tamers, hunters, priests, sages. Any and all hair/skin/eye colour, but always "natural" for the region of birth. Stout and of average build.

Hags are found amongst all three halfling bloodlines and some claim that their wisdom and power is a gift from the halfling and dwarven goddess. Some believe it's a curse, instead, but none say that in their presence.

Hag, Annis: As per the MM, but Small-sized. Charmers and beguilers, use glamor and illusion to insinuate themselves into positions of social power and authority. From there, they usually act as guides and advisors to the community.

Hag, Night: As per the MM, only Monstrous Humanoids instead of Outsiders and Small-sized. Guardians of the dead, night-dwellers, they act as liaisons between the living and the undead in a community, trying to satisfy both groups. If there are no undead in a community, she guards graveyards from defilement.

Hag, Dusk: As per the ECS, but Small-sized. Oracles and hermits who have the ability to peer into the mists of time and grant prophetic dreams. They also grant boons of revelry to those who undertake quests for them.

Hag, Green: As per the MM, but Small-sized. Forest and swamp-dwellers, they avoid society but are often sought after for their ability to bring prosperity to the fields. They are also repositories of natural lore and druidic knowledge. Coveys are known to undertake mysterious rituals to enhance or bring prosperity to entire forests.

Hag, Shrieking: As per Unapproachable East, but Small-sized. Flying hag that rides on storms, is usually very loud and brings rain. Very sought after in dry locations. Fickle, but easy to convince to go elsewhere.

Hag, Marzanna: As per Frostburn, but Small-sized. Dour, serious hag who provides shelter to travellers in cold locations. Visitors are expected to help the Marzanna in whatever she needs in exchange for hospitality in the dire cold.

Hag, Dune: As per Sandstorm, but Small-sized. Warm, kind hag, able to sense oasis, the most powerful ones can create them permanently. They offer safety and a place to rest in the middle of the desert. Like Marzannas, they expect visitors to repay their hospitality with aid.

Hag, Knoll: Small-sized. Guardians and seekers of subterranean passages, ruins, secret passageways, barrows, caverns, strange underground locations and storage facilities. Usually sought after to gain entrance to or protect buried treasures, a community's storage location or a hidden passage.

Hag, Horizon: Small-sized. Eternal wanderers who live to travel and visit new lands. The most powerful can cross the boundaries between planes. They are fluent in many languages and proficient with teleportation. Also able to summon creatures from the planes/places they've visited (requires pact with the hag first).

Hag, Bog: As per Oriental Adventures, but Small-sized and except that they do not need to harvest the skin of others, they are able to knit/craft themselves skin to wear. Astrologers and astronomers, they cling to the edges of humanoid civilization, delving into natural lore and are relied upon as herbalists and healers to the surrounding community.

Hag, Hedge: Small-sized. Hedge hags are the origin of the term "hedge witch." Their life-giving powers are usually relied upon heavily by their communities. Their presence is almost always welcomed regardless of how difficult their personality has become. The most common and ubiquitous of the hags, hence the use of their term to refer to any self-taught female spellcaster.


GNOMES

Magical and reclusive (Small size, +Hide, +Move Silently). Life expectancy: Roughly 300 years. Reproduction rate: Low.

No subraces. They avoid all other races, live underground or in secluded forested areas. Very deceitful.


ORCS

Determined and proud (Always get one extra try if they fail a save, +all saves (racial), +Concentration). Life expectancy: Roughly 200 years. Reproduction rate: Slightly low.

Obsidian: (+Strength, +Charisma). Assimilated into the Ashkyran Empire as slaves. Former culture used to be of hedonistic warrior-bards. The empire turned them into prostitutes, servants, shock troops and manual workers. Glossy dusky/black skin, eyes of blue/violet/gray tones, light-coloured hair (usually silver), muscled and tall. Usually extremely beautiful (especially in a ruggedly handsome way). Lack tusks, have small horns instead.

Amber: (+Dexterity, +land speed, +to attack rolls). Beset by the Askhyran Empire for centuries, waged many skirmishes across the Desert of Shifting Dunes, were never fully conquered. Exceedingly good fighters. Dark or reddish skin, amber/orange eyes, brown/auburn/blond/red hair, slim but muscled.

Onyx: (+Constitution, DR 5/Adamantium, +natural armour). Besieged by the Ashkyran Empire for centuries, unable to expand outside their mountain fortresses and caverns, but never conquered. Exceedingly tough. Skin of grayish or light pastel colours, with markings of darker colours (like smoky onyx or marble). Hair of different hues, usually emulating the colours of onyx stones. Eyes of any colour. Big and muscled.

Diamond: (Flight). Almost completely exterminated by the Ashkyran Empire, their cities plundered for magical secrets. Only survived one kingdom, hidden away in the high peaks of the Mourning Mountains. Natural arcanists and creators of magical items. Extraordinary variety of hair/eye/skin/wings colours (in any combination). Slim and short. Wings are impressively large. Superior part of wings is feathered, inferior part is bat-like, they are attached to the waist/lower back and not between shoulder blades, they have sharp talons at the tips, they can be folded either at the back or over the front (depends on what flank they want to protect). Wings are surprisingly tough and not delicate in the slightest.

Jade: (+Intelligence, +Wisdom). Surrendered to the Ashkyran Empire and gained positions of influence as advisors, scholars and assistants, from which they were able to plot the Empire's downfall. Naturally good at any magic that requires preparation and research. Skin/hair/eyes of different jade tones that shift hues minutely from day to day. Slim and tall.

So yeah, I tried to balance elves with dwarves and orcs with humans. Hags became a type of halfling at a player's request and gnomes were largely ignored.

...I want to build my own versions, but I'd have to make an entire setting out of it. MUST... RESIST...

Really, I just wanna see a 'races of fire' book that features orcs. I'd love to see a connection drawn between orcs and fire element.

SilverLeaf167
2012-03-18, 01:53 AM
Though I complained about half-orcs, I actually like orcs in general.

In my setting, they're actually just a subtype of goblinoids and speak Goblinoid rather than their own language: all the goblinoids (including orcs) live together in tribal villages and warbands. They were banished into the desert when the god of rage corrupted them and they started a war against the other races.
After millennia, the god's influence has diminished on them: the typical goblinoid is just as peaceful as any other race, though maybe a little primitive. The occasional warband is just a minority group of goblinoids who either really want their lands back or just prefer to embrace their curse.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 01:57 AM
You just hate 'em cuz their short. :smallbiggrin:

I hate them because they're buffoons! You can't take a gnome seriously. They're ridiculous and unserious in everything they do. I mean, when fey or a halflings engage in pranks, you can tell the guys are just having fun but can get serious if the situation so requires. Gnomes give you no such reassurance. :smallmad:


...I want to build my own versions, but I'd have to make an entire setting out of it. MUST... RESIST...

Really, I just wanna see a 'races of fire' book that features orcs. I'd love to see a connection drawn between orcs and fire element.

GIVE INTO TEMPTATION! Hah, seriously, I just love worldbuilding, so creating those subraces was awesome and rewarding in itself, even if out of all that bevy of races and subraces, my player chose to play a pixie. I don't mind if that doesn't see much use, nothing says I can't reuse the setting for other campaigns.

Also yeah, orcs and the fire element are a match made in heaven. And it's not just fire magic either, I can totally see orcs embodying the more metaphysical aspects of fire, such as passion, rage, intensity, cleansing, spirituality, warmth and drive. What a great idea, I might have to steal it for my Amber orcs, even.


In my setting, they're actually just a subtype of goblinoids and speak Goblinoid rather than their own language: all the goblinoids (including orcs) live together in tribal villages and warbands. They were banished into the desert when the god of rage corrupted them and they started a war against the other races.
After millennia, the god's influence has diminished on them: the typical goblinoid is just as peaceful as any other race, though maybe a little primitive. The occasional warband is just a minority group of goblinoids who either really want their lands back or just prefer to embrace their curse.

That's one of the more believable reasons for orcish warbands I've seen, really. Also, I find it intriguing that you grouped orcs together with goblinoids. I kept them separate, myself, because I couldn't really find common ground between them. But the idea does have some interesting aspects.

SilverLeaf167
2012-03-18, 02:03 AM
That's one of the more believable reasons for orcish warbands I've seen, really. Also, I find it intriguing that you grouped orcs together with goblinoids. I kept them separate, myself, because I couldn't really find common ground between them. But the idea does have some interesting aspects.
Meh, the biggest reason for the grouping was that I simply find it annoying that Orcs, a single race, are entirely separate from an already very diverse group even though they're quite similar. Goblinoids include goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, and some goblin subraces... why not orcs? Weren't orcs and goblins basically the (almost) same thing in LotR?

Totally Guy
2012-03-18, 04:29 AM
Best campaign I ran was an all orc game. Just 9 sessions but so intense.

The campaign stated to get really good when the player character killed my NPC, Lord Slyside.

The PC, Drodush, had led a charge against a human town commanding the troops to take maximum numbers of prisoners. The troops were disobedient and slaughtered mercilessly.

Lord Slyside and Drodush were talking to the troops. Drodush was telling the troops off for lack of discipline and Slyside was congratulating the troops on a total victory. The two argued in front of all the troops. Lord Slyside eventually said "Watch your back warlord" and walked away.

At that moment Drodush's player said, "I stab him in the back as he walks away! I want him to die and them all to know what an idiot this guy is by walking away after saying those words.

He gathered up his dice to roll his attack. And I said no.

No. This isn't about whether he lives or dies. It's about how he's remembered. I want you to roll your oratory skill against the late Lord Slyside's and we'll see if he's remembered as a fool or a martyr.

Then we picked up dice!

Calanon
2012-03-18, 06:00 AM
Best encounter with Orcs I ever had was in a prequel game where we all took turns with the DM, explained our backstories in depth, waited a week and had games with them.

My Character as a child had his arm ripped right off by a band of Orcs (Just because he was Human) when a powerful Wizard came by an slaughtered them all... was quite fun performing Move silently checks as what my DM would call "a level 0 character" Still play as that character to this day with that same group and that same DM... of course he's incredibly racist towards Orcs but who wouldn't after that? :smallannoyed:

Best game we ever had was when my group encountered a tribe of peaceful orcs... eventually we learned that this was the same tribe that took my arm.. 3 chain lightnings 2 fireballs and 1 Telekinesis later and I was feeling Pretty awesome :smallamused: (The Telekinesis was so I could rip off all the childrens arms off, first time I ever got to use Torture rules from the BoVD) sure I lost my True Neutral Alignment (to Neutral Evil) but I got over it :smallsmile: I lost my alignment, 6 spells for the day, and everytime I play that character my friends are always paranoidly thinking I'm going to slaughter them... (4 months later and they still bring it up)

Revenge is sweet...

NineThePuma
2012-03-18, 06:06 AM
Are we allowed to talk about things from beyond D&D? Cause I had a pretty kickass Orc Space Marine in a d20: Future game.

Orc + Powered Armor + Robot Attack Wolf = Love.

Weirdlet
2012-03-18, 11:36 AM
Orcs, orks, yrch, darkspawn of any stripe, go right ahead. This is a non-denominational thread.

Beelzebub1111
2012-03-18, 12:25 PM
I prefere the Cunningly Brutal and Brutally Cunning orcs of Warhammer to the Tibal Warriors of D&D and Warcraft. the WAAAGH! is much more fun.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 12:26 PM
Meh, the biggest reason for the grouping was that I simply find it annoying that Orcs, a single race, are entirely separate from an already very diverse group even though they're quite similar. Goblinoids include goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, and some goblin subraces... why not orcs? Weren't orcs and goblins basically the (almost) same thing in LotR?

Well, I was always under the impression that goblinoids came from a different fantasy source than LotR (rare as this may sound, D&D is actually a kitchen sink of sources, and not a LotR circle... patting), so it never occurred to me to put them together. I thought goblinoids came from European folklore (like most Fey creatures), rather than being the invention of a fantasy author, so they were always totally separate to me.

EDIT:


Revenge is sweet...

I highly doubt that's orc appreciation. :smallsigh:

NineThePuma
2012-03-18, 01:24 PM
According to Wiki, orcs were goblinoids in 2e.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 01:26 PM
According to Wiki, orcs were goblinoids in 2e.

Well, colour me surprised. I'm glad they changed it in 3e, though.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 01:33 PM
Well, I was always under the impression that goblinoids came from a different fantasy source than LotR (rare as this may sound, D&D is actually a kitchen sink of sources, and not a LotR circle... patting), so it never occurred to me to put them together. I thought goblinoids came from European folklore (like most Fey creatures), rather than being the invention of a fantasy author, so they were always totally separate to me.

Both are from folklore. However "orks" got renamed "orcs" by Tolkien, who had "goblin" and "hobgoblin" as alternate names for them. Though he did rethink his choice of renaming them, and used "orks" in his later essays, this never made it into The Silmarillion.

The idea that hobgoblins are "larger goblins" also originated with him- before, they tended to be smaller- and in some folklore, friendlier.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 01:39 PM
The idea that hobgoblins are "larger goblins" also originated with him- before, they tended to be smaller- and in some folklore, friendlier.

That's precisely why I thought they were meant to be like giants and fey, creatures taken straight from folklore and not from Tolkien's works. That's how I play them in my campaigns, though, grumpier and more "dwarven" than fey but smarter and more industrious than giants, no savagery or tribal culture whatsoever.

Morty
2012-03-18, 01:39 PM
Where was "hobgoblin" used by Tolkien? I don't recall that, but of course I may be forgetting and I haven't read everything by him. I thought hobgoblins as bigger goblins were Gygax's invention.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 01:41 PM
Where was "hobgoblin" used by Tolkien? I don't recall that, but of course I may be forgetting and I haven't read everything by him. I thought hobgoblins as bigger goblins were Gygax's invention.

No, hobgoblins are part of German folklore, which was Tolkien's not-so-secret fetish. I don't know much about them except that WWI German soldiers blamed them for the malfunctions in their planes. Or at least that's what I haphazardly half-remember.

EDIT: Article from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobgoblin).

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 01:42 PM
The Hobbit "mountains full of goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description" are how Gandalf describes one the routes that don't go via Mirkwood.

In the Hobbit bit before the actual story starts, it discusses hobbits, and the origin of the word "orc"- at least in some editions of the novel.

Morty
2012-03-18, 01:51 PM
No, hobgoblins are part of German folklore, which was Tolkien's not-so-secret fetish. I don't know much about them except that WWI German soldiers blamed them for the malfunctions in their planes. Or at least that's what I haphazardly half-remember.

EDIT: Article from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobgoblin).

Oh, I know that hobgoblins are folklore creatures just like goblins. I just thought it was Gygax who established them as they are in popular fantasy nowadays.


The Hobbit "mountains full of goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description" are how Gandalf describes one the routes that don't go via Mirkwood.

In the Hobbit bit before the actual story starts, it discusses hobbits, and the origin of the word "orc"- at least in some editions of the novel.

Mhm. I read Hobbit in English, but I didn't remember hobgoblins being there, and the Polish translation doesn't use that word, although it does mention orcs.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 01:59 PM
Oh, I know that hobgoblins are folklore creatures just like goblins. I just thought it was Gygax who established them as they are in popular fantasy nowadays.

Nope, it was Tolkien. The wikipedia article says he even confessed he made them bigger and meaner on purpose, fully aware it was "the opposite of the truth." I guess he liked the idea of a mook height scale, from the lowly goblins to the mighty orcs, and needed some filler in the middle.

Oh, Trollkien. Thank goodness you did positive things as well to make up for your hilarious fantasy racism.

Weirdlet
2012-03-18, 02:02 PM
I always thought hob-goblin was originally the name for household spirits and imps- the goblin of the hob, or cooking surface. A lot of names have been used interchangeably and/or in odd reimaginings of mythical creatures for D&D. Heck, trolls seemed like anything from ugly giants to the Scandinavian version of kitsune (the huldra maidens).

Morty
2012-03-18, 02:04 PM
Huh. Well, the more you know. On that note, it's funny how orcs tend to be bigger and stronger than humans in modern fantasy even though in Tolkien's works, orcs that were as big as humans - such as Uruk-Hai - were unusual.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 02:06 PM
N I guess he liked the idea of a mook height scale, from the lowly goblins to the mighty orcs, and needed some filler in the middle.

It was more "goblin for the smaller types, hobgoblin for the larger types, orc as the generic term for them all"

Seerow
2012-03-18, 02:07 PM
In a campaign I played in fairly recently, we started out with a pretty typical level 1 deal: The ragtag crew comes to a village in the middle of BFE and after asking around hear they're having troubles with some Orcs.


Well skipping all the intermedian stuff because I don't want to turn this post into a book, in the end, we wound up evicting said village, and helping the Orcs establish a new nation, shortly followed by us hunting down a pair of casters who were using an artifact that would trigger a blood frenzy among the Orcs, destroying their progress towards making a peaceful civilization for themselves.

It was a lot of fun, and the Orcs being the good guys when initially appearing to be the group we would go out and kill without thought was a well handled twist.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 02:13 PM
I always thought hob-goblin was originally the name for household spirits and imps- the goblin of the hob, or cooking surface. A lot of names have been used interchangeably and/or in odd reimaginings of mythical creatures for D&D. Heck, trolls seemed like anything from ugly giants to the Scandinavian version of kitsune (the huldra maidens).

That's quite true, and Tolkien made a habit of appropriating folklore words for his own works (to make them a better sale, probably), and D&D is nothing if not cannibalistic about anything that can even remotely be called fantasy, so I am utterly unsurprised that we have so many contradicting depictions.

[REDACTED]

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 02:14 PM
Oh, Trollkien. Thank goodness you did positive things as well to make up for your hilarious fantasy racism.

this essay
http://www.unm.edu/~tolkien/Greybook/vol1/orientalism.pdf

discusses whether there was racism in LoTR- and whether the author was promoting it- and it's concluded that the author wasn't.

It deals more with elves, Wild Men, and Easterlings, than orcs though.

Tolkien was troubled with the issue of irredeemability in orcs- from his essays "I nearly wrote "irredeemably bad" but that would be going too far"

and in another, "while Orcs had been made irredeemable (at least by Elves and Men) they remained within the Law" - and so could not be tormented for information, and should be dealt with honestly in a parley.



Then why bother saying "goblins, hobgoblins and orcs"?

Perhaps because that was an in-universe quote by Gandalf to the dwarves, whereas the idea that all were similar, just differing in size, was out of universe.

Seerow
2012-03-18, 02:41 PM
Oh, I was actually wondering when you were going to do that.

Sorry this line just immediately brought to mind:

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/406/my_trap_card.jpg

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 02:44 PM
unlike you, I feel no need to bring up essays and quotes to justify what is innately subjective (an opinion).

Way I see it- evidence outweighs opinion.

All evidence can be claimed to be "subjective" but an opinion supported by evidence is generally more convincing, in any debate about a controversial topic like "tolkien promotes racism" than opinion without evidence.

Weirdlet
2012-03-18, 02:54 PM
Ladies, Gentlemen, and Assorted Trollkin- I would like to reiterate that this is a Orc Appreciation Thread, for the purpose of exploring what folks like about orcs (of whatever version, setting and authorial intended purpose), fun encounters with same, and basically going above and beyond their much-disputed origins.

Because, as I believe I stated in the beginning post, alignment arguments and accusations of racism are depressing. Please try to post in the spirit of the thread, and keep the arguments of the "When did the Orcs gain acceptance as Positive side?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235145) and "Whose idea were Half-Orcs?" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236406) threads- to those threads.

Thank you.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 02:59 PM
Ladies, Gentlemen, and Assorted Trollkin- I would like to reiterate that this is a Orc Appreciation Thread, for the purpose of exploring what folks like about orcs (of whatever version, setting and authorial intended purpose), fun encounters with same, and basically going above and beyond their much-disputed origins.

I liked Obould in the Forgotten Realms novel The Orc King- and to some extent in the books before that- growing from a pretty ordinary orc warlord into someone with vision, and the ability to make peace with the other peoples of the Silver Marches.

NineThePuma
2012-03-18, 03:29 PM
This is exactly what I'm trying to achieve, actually. Naysayers can go elsewhere, I'm not interested in changing my mind.

Excuse me sir, but that sounds awfully confrontational for someone who's trying to avoid confrontation.


-------------------------

Orcs, to me, have a lot in common with the Gerudo of LoZ. This shows whenever I do an orcish character. They're the people that no one wants, aren't accepted, and have a lot of potential. Sure, they've got -2 to all mentals and only a +4 to strength, but how much of that is cultural? Because the smart orcs are killed because they're a threat, while the stupid cowardly orcs are willing to break and run, allowing them to procreate. A continuous cycle, where the occasional throwback turns into a fierce uncontestable leader of Orcs.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 03:37 PM
Excuse me sir, but that sounds awfully confrontational for someone who's trying to avoid confrontation.

That's kind of what I thought.



That aside, it's my opinion and I have every right to have it, regardless of how wrong it may seem to you, so kindly let it go.

When I counterargue vs what I believe to be a misconception, it's not aimed just at the person voicing it- but at everyone else, who might listen and believe it too, and go on to argue it elsewhere, thus spreading the belief.

People have the right to hold any belief, even if that belief is incorrect. And other people have the right to counterargue that belief whenever it's voiced.

For me "Tolkien was hilariously racist" is a misconception to be argued against.

Weirdlet
2012-03-18, 03:58 PM
Cycles can be broken, for good or ill- that's part of what makes them interesting pieces of background for characters and settings.

They can also bring down the morale of what was specifically supposed to be a happy-fun thread in direct response to two prior miserable ones, in which I believe both of you featured prominently. Now- I can neither dictate nor moderate what directions folks can take a thread in when they clearly want to discuss something other than the listed topic. But I can, for the third time, reiterate what the thread was originally about, and, for the second time, ask that you be civil and stay on topic.

-Please.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 04:00 PM
I would never persecute anyone for holding a belief that, say, the world was flat- but I would argue against it when they state it, publicly, trying to convince others of it.

Same applies to anything else- even more subjective things.

On- topic- I like it when orcs are portrayed as having similar diversity of character to other races in a setting- and not just as "villains only".

Morty
2012-03-18, 04:05 PM
Yeah, to hopefully distance this thread from needless antagonism... the angle I like to give orcs, one that I've given them in my homebrew non-D&D settings is "survivalists". Orcs consistently live on the crappiest, harshest lands available, so they developed to be tough, extremely pragmatic and fairly warlike - because sometimes, the only way to get the resources you need is to take them from someone else.
On another note, does the thread's premise include goblins and such?

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 04:09 PM
On another note, does the thread's premise include goblins and such?
Seems like it:

Orcs, orks, yrch, darkspawn of any stripe, go right ahead. This is a non-denominational thread.

NineThePuma
2012-03-18, 04:10 PM
I find that to be frankly disappointing from a storytelling point of view. What does that produce, narratively? It arbitrarily limits the potential for storytelling. They end up being a race of socially primitive, uncultured, vicious creatures who cannot break away from their cycle and serve no purpose in an actual story, beyond that given by their niche.

I think we can do better as fantasy fans.

Look at the facts: the orcs have a net -2, with -2s to all mentals. What you described, and what I described, is EXACTLY what the Orcs are in 'canon' or RAW. They're described as intelligent evil gorillas with the barest concept of a culture who wander around mugging people because that's all they know how to do.

Is it what I treat them as? Sometimes. I tend to treat the majority along those lines, because doing otherwise might clash with my GM's plans.

I tend to come at orcs from the angle of a player. That is the backstory of the Orcish People, and while it's amusing to play Generic Stupid Evil Orc Barbarian, there's a lot of fun to be had in playing with the backstory.

Reminds me of the Half-Orc Crusader I played once, who embraced his orcish heritage because humans were ***** to him most of his life. I ended up having him go into Half-Orc Paragon and take levels of Orc Warlord, with a Red (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174163) streak, who is fighting against what he believes is the fate the gods have decreed for the orcish people.

He eventually became an almost literal Ganon knock off, with heavy influence from this fic (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3773009/1/Steeped_in_Fearful_Armor), with Dire Boar lycanthropy and a penchant for fighting with a refluffed halberd to resemble a trident. He's still one of my favorite characters in my personal fantasy stable.

Weirdlet
2012-03-18, 04:11 PM
I'm cool with gobs, hobs, imps, wretches and assorted members of the Evil Minions' Union.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 04:20 PM
I'm cool with gobs, hobs, imps, wretches and assorted members of the Evil Minions' Union.

Trolls? the Troll Bridge short story by Terry Pratchett has a barbarian hero and a troll, both of whom fought during "the war" musing to each other "just what was it all about, anyway".

In The Art of Discworld Pratchett says he objected to the idea that trolls were big and thick and therefore bad.

Weirdlet
2012-03-18, 04:23 PM
"Mister Chrysophase is real upset."

I love Disc!trolls^^ And that's been my thinking- you can have groups that exemplify strong like bull, dumb like ox, hitch to plow when horse dies, but they don't have to be bad for that.

hamishspence
2012-03-18, 04:30 PM
you can have groups that exemplify strong like bull, dumb like ox, hitch to plow when horse dies, but they don't have to be bad for that.

Was that from Mercedes Lackey's Tarma & Kethry series? I think I recall Kethry wryly describing one of her disguises that way.

Good books, those. Though the makaar in her Black Gryphon novel did seem a bit like "winged orcs" of the "created cannon fodder by evil mage" type.

Morty
2012-03-18, 04:32 PM
Speaking of Discworld, I do like how Pratchett dealt with orcs and goblins. On the surface, they seem like normal fantasy orcs and goblins... except not. That said, he didn't do a perfect job of it in Snuff - while I liked the message, it came across as preachy and heavy handed, lacking the subtlety usually associated with Discworld.
Goblins are, as you might guess from my avatar, my favourite fantasy race. I tend to prefer to portray them as clever and industrious, with a "mad inventor" streak. Not evil, obviously, since the whole concept of universally evil races is worthless to me.

Coidzor
2012-03-18, 04:48 PM
Ashkyran: (+Knowledge(Arcana), +Knowledge(Religion), +Spellcraft, +Concentration). Scholars, mages, priests, paladins, spellblades, knights. Arrogant, domineering and aggressive. Fair-skinned, unnatural hair colours (especially red), unnatural eye colours (especially red), slim and lanky.

Gingers are unnatural now? :smallamused: That's a pretty bold claim, I must admit.

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 04:53 PM
Gingers are unnatural now? :smallamused: That's a pretty bold claim, I must admit.

No, no, it's not "red is an unnatural colour" it's more like "they have hair in unnatural colours, especially unnatural shades of red."

Example:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K1lA8fLx1C8/Tiln1RBmeXI/AAAAAAAAAUk/JBHk8M51MjM/s1600/scene-red-hair-330x455.jpg

Analytica
2012-03-18, 05:34 PM
No, no, it's not "red is an unnatural colour" it's more like "they have hair in unnatural colours, especially unnatural shades of red."


From the description, more like:

http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/2/38218.jpg

:smallsmile:

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 05:44 PM
From the description, more like:

http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/2/38218.jpg

:smallsmile:

That works, too. :smallbiggrin:

Coidzor
2012-03-18, 06:40 PM
No, no, it's not "red is an unnatural colour" it's more like "they have hair in unnatural colours, especially unnatural shades of red."

Example:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-K1lA8fLx1C8/Tiln1RBmeXI/AAAAAAAAAUk/JBHk8M51MjM/s1600/scene-red-hair-330x455.jpg

Should've said "kool-aid red" then. :smalltongue:


From the description, more like:

http://cdn.myanimelist.net/images/characters/2/38218.jpg

:smallsmile:

Uhhh... That's slightly stylized and all, but it's not exactly far off enough from natural shades to be a good example. :smallconfused:

Much better example of unnatural redhead here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P_BvrtuxAI)

Shadowknight12
2012-03-18, 06:41 PM
Should've said "kool-aid red" then. :smalltongue:

I've never seen kool-aid, but you make a fair point, apologies to any red-headed folks who might have been inadvertently offended. I specifically meant the shades of red you'd only see in someone with more magic in their veins than actual blood. :smallbiggrin:

Analytica
2012-03-18, 08:25 PM
Uhhh... That's slightly stylized and all, but it's not exactly far off enough from natural shades to be a good example. :smallconfused:

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of:


Ashkyran: (+Knowledge(Arcana), +Knowledge(Religion), +Spellcraft, +Concentration). Scholars, mages, priests, paladins, spellblades, knights. Arrogant, domineering and aggressive. Fair-skinned, unnatural hair colours (especially red), unnatural eye colours (especially red), slim and lanky.

If you've seen Slayers, that does sound like the dedicated Lina Inverse subrace... :smallbiggrin:

Coidzor
2012-03-18, 10:30 PM
One of my favorite orcs ever.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v723/Coidzor/7-166n9yd.png
Nigel Necksmasher. from the Warcraft LP by Azzur

Doorhandle
2012-03-19, 05:11 AM
yes. Fancsy orc is best orc.

Marlowe
2012-03-19, 07:06 AM
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of:



If you've seen Slayers, that does sound like the dedicated Lina Inverse subrace... :smallbiggrin:

"Lina Inverse subrace"...:smalleek:

charcoalninja
2012-03-19, 11:11 AM
I decided to embrace the villains in them for my setting, at least in their historical reality. I've made them hobgoblins altered by dark magic into fearsome killing machines by Orcus himself, thus why they now bear his name.

They are in essence civilization enders determined to keep Orcus as the most feared being in the cosmos, while doing everything they can to bring more mortals under his sway (ie making them undead). They invented necromancy and are ruled by a counsil of Liches. They sweep down in uncountable numbers with massive undead armies, rampage across the land then return to their mountain homes, a climate so harsh that moving a conventional force through the area is nearly impossible. They know the hidden paths though, and they have labourers that can't freeze to death.

They favour the PF classes of Witch, Summoner, Cleric and of course Barbarian.

Orcs and lowbie zombies makes for epic low level adventuring.

Weirdlet
2012-03-19, 01:06 PM
That sounds fantastic. I've got this image in my head of little orclings running and horsing around among mounds of snow that look like covered statues- and then if someone from Outside tries to come up the pass the snow-covered undead stand up and get to slaughtering.

MonkeyBusiness
2012-03-19, 08:27 PM
One game I ran for some young people had a scenario where they took some goblins prisoner. The goblins in question turned out to be adolescents, who were working for the BBEG for food and out of fear of the bullying character supervising them -- although they didn't exactly ponder the ethics of their actions.

The PCs realized the captured goblins were mostly harmless, and after feeding them set them free. They all scampered off except one who had listened to the debate about "what to do with the prisoners" and was curious: their toughness as warriors combined with their compassion intrigued him. (He also realized the PCs were a source of food and protection.) So he stayed with them.

His presence began to be a source of interesting role playing, first in-group (not everyone liked him or trusted him) but more so when they returned to town and had to take responsibility for him. But he listened to every argument the players made in his defence. He began to ask questions about ethics that sometimes challenged assumptions the Players were making, and he also told stories about living in his tribe as a youngster, particularly recollections of his mother running risks to protect him as a youngster.

Eventually, their determination to act as his champion and protector as well as recollections of Dear Old Mom, inspired in him the desire to be a knight. So they made him a "squire" and he began to take a more active role in the group. However his style was influenced by his goblin upbringing, so it sometimes looked less purehearted on the surface than it truly was.

Sadly, the group dispersed before he went very far on his quest for knighthood. But the players enjoyed mentoring him and he was a challenge to role play without making him too sweet.

Lemmy
2012-03-19, 09:51 PM
Awesome story.

That is some magnificent RP right there. Very involving and memorable.
The fact that this kind of thing can happen is one of the reasons I love RPG.

Back on topic:
I gotta say I'm not the greatest fan of orcs around, but I'm not a fan of any race in particular, however, even though I'm not a WoW player, and have in fact, never played the game, I do love Blizzard's take on Orcs: a shamanistic race of honorable warriors.

Damn, Blizzard even made me not hate elves! Being addict to arcane magic and all that, they actually have flaws and personality! Not just that "we are better than everyone." attitude stuff that makes them insufferable.

bokodasu
2012-03-20, 10:17 AM
I guess I like my orcs more traditional - brutal rage machines. But I don't really see them as evil, more as a force of nature, like a tornado or a plague. I like their unstoppability - they're not a problem you can backburner until you feel more ready to deal with them.

In my current campaign, the players are trying to free a tribe of kobolds who have been enslaved by some orcs. (They haven't yet discovered that it's because the orcs got annoyed when they found out the kobolds were supplying the gnollish army with goblin slaves at the same time they were contracted to enslave the goblins for the orc army and stuffed the kobolds into their own control collars, but it will be entertaining if they do.)

The goblins, though, they're just SOL.

TechnoScrabble
2012-03-20, 10:19 AM
Orcs? Wot's dere t' like 'bout orcs? Now ORKS, dem's some mean, green, krumpin' musheens!

But yeah greenskins are awesomel

Weirdlet
2012-03-20, 11:22 AM
One of the quirks I've put into my writeups of orcs is that aggression is their way of making matches, based on the best warriors going out and finding challenging opponents, and figuring out who is dragging who home by the hair by ritual combat. A lot of the inter-tribal skirmishes that outsiders see are actually courtship-battles- less deadly than full-on war, but still terrifying to the meeker folks caught in the middle.

charcoalninja
2012-03-21, 08:16 AM
I really like that idea and I think I just might toss that into my orc culture as well. *Shameless idea theft*

RobD
2012-03-21, 01:46 PM
For my homebrew setting, I decided to have Orcs be a nomadic, plains-dwelling horse culture not dissimilar from certain groups of Native Americans (they're kind of a pastiche of the Sioux, Shoshone, and Cheyenne), and call themselves the Ojund. I also made Elves into brutal, xenophobic savages, so I guess I kinda switched Orcs and Elves around in terms of traditional roles. That being the case, half-orcs are no big deal at all, and half-elves get the stigma (full Elves aren't even playable at the moment; they're considered a 'monster' race).

Vitruviansquid
2012-03-21, 04:45 PM
Orcs I haven't dedicated much thought to, but I've lately been a big fan of goblins.

In my setting for a game about dwarves, the goblins play the role of a primary antagonist race like the Soviets to the Americans, the Argives to the Trojans, or the Star Wars fans to the Star Trek fans.

Goblins in the setting are sexless creatures that spring fully formed from certain sites in the natural world called Goblinhomes. Goblinhomes can be damp caves, the hearts of swamps, dying woods, or other places of power, and the particular Goblinhome a goblin hails from has a large effect on that Goblin's physical characteristics.

Their society is ordered hierarchically based on personal strength, intellect, and prowess, as each goblin knows how to fear and obey their betters and order about their lessers. In large, this society is divided into three tiers:

The Great Goblin is the strongest and smartest goblin who rules over many Goblinhomes and is, in theory, the ruler of all Goblinkind (though there are often times when multiple Great Goblins are fighting over the title). Upon ascension to Great Goblinhood, the Great Goblin may take a third syllable in his name, such as "The Great Klagordag."

"Hob" is the title of a goblin aristocrat. While there can be complex hierarchies among Hobgoblins as among human nobility, goblins use only one title to refer to all the goblins of the upper class, since members of the race can intuitively identify their betters in a way that humans can't. A Hobgoblin is permitted to have a bisyllabic name, like "Hob Gordag," and a personal sigil much like a coat of arms. In war, a Hobgoblin is valued at ten times the worth of a normal goblin and earns ten times the loot in any military venture, allowing Hobgoblins to always be the best armed and armored goblins on any battlefield.

The common goblin is permitted to have only a monosyllabic name, like "Dag." While Hobgoblins are the military caste, goblin commoners are expected to do make up the majority of any goblinhost, often armed lightly with spears, slings, and short swords. Goblin commoners are also expected to engage in all the trades and crafts that fuel the goblin war machine, though it's the Hobs who deal with trade and interfacing with other races.

The ultimate goal of goblin society is the defense of the Goblinhomes through the extermination of their ancestral enemies, the dwarfs (on the opposite side, the ultimate goal of dwarfish society is the defense of the Dwarfholds through the extermination of their ancestral enemies, the goblins). As such, they have a fully militarized society in which every goblin is expected to contribute to the war effort and furnish his own arms in case of a dwarf attack.