Vote for OotS - A Call to Arms

[OITS]

Apparently, there is another webcomic-vote-thingy going on. The first round is over already and The Order of the Stick is still in the mix. If you look at the total votes in the first round though, it's not as strong as it should be.

Here's a LINK (http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/14/vote-in-the-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-first-round/), altough you have to navigate to the actual voting page and I don't even know when the second round will start.^^

[fergo]

I can't work out how to vote :smallconfused:.

[FujinAkari]

I believe Rich has stated in the past that he actually prefers not to win these types of things, he is already one of the most recognized web-comics on the web, and would rather other comics who actually need the exposure be voted for

[Othesemo]

Thus far, OOTS is tied for being the most popular webcomic in its division with xkcd (no surprises there), at 91%. I don't see why any sort of call to arms is necessary.

[fergo]

I believe Rich has stated in the past that he actually prefers not to win these types of things, he is already one of the most recognized web-comics on the web, and would rather other comics who actually need the exposure be voted for

But winning is fun :smallfrown:.

:smalltongue:

[NerfTW]

But winning is fun :smallfrown:.

:smalltongue:

And yet, pointless when you're the equivalent of a major league baseball player going up against an elementary school T-ball team.

[fergo]

And yet, pointless when you're the equivalent of a major league baseball player going up against an elementary school T-ball team.

Speak for yourself :smallcool:.

Then again, my personal favourite football team wins so rarely that I wouldn't really know what that's like :smallmad::smallwink::smallmad:.

[suzaliscious]

Maybe a thread like this would have more of a point when we go up against xkcd.

[Kurald Galain]

I can't work out how to vote :smallconfused:.

Me neither. Does that site not support Firefox or something?

[B. Dandelion]

If totals from the last round are an indication, OOTS will next be going up against Sinfest, and then Dr. McNinja, and should win both, only to lose the final round to XKCD. But certainly, in an elimination-style contest like this, up against some of the biggest hitters on the web, there's no reason to hold back in the name of "greater exposure".

I voted in Firefox. It took a while for it to register, but it went through fine. Are you going to the right page? The last round is over, so the new voting page is here (www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/19/mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-round-2-vote-now/).

[Kurald Galain]

Ok, that worked, thank you!

Wow, there are some really crappy comics in that list that are surprisingly popular!

(edit) aaaand they just got slashdotted. Well, with the voting system they're using a server overload would be inevitable.

[Forbiddenwar]

So, dead link/website or is it just me?

[[TS] Shadow]

Well, if you feel bad about helping OotS, then go and throw some votes towards Darths and Droids! They're at risk of losing this round, and I would rather not see that happen.

[Kurald Galain]

I find that in nearly every case, the topmost of the two choices is winning. This is so extremely lopsided that it cannot be coincidental, so it strikes me that a lot of people are just voting for the first whenever they don't know either comic.

So in case anyone was still doubting this, no, the outcome of this poll really isn't representative of anything.

[Savil]

I find that in nearly every case, the topmost of the two choices is winning. This is so extremely lopsided that it cannot be coincidental, so it strikes me that a lot of people are just voting for the first whenever they don't know either comic.

So in case anyone was still doubting this, no, the outcome of this poll really isn't representative of anything.
It's not coincidental, but for another reason. Contestants were placed in the brackets not randomly, but according to the number of votes in the nomination round (http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/09/announing-mix-march-madness-2012-nominations/). First four of them were placed topmost in four divisions, next four were placed topmost in lower half of the division, and so on. This system is similar to seeding players in tennis tournaments.
That is why the topmost of two choices is more likely to win.

[Killer Angel]

I believe Rich has stated in the past that he actually prefers not to win these types of things, he is already one of the most recognized web-comics on the web, and would rather other comics who actually need the exposure be voted for

Here you are (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8523685&postcount=13).

[Jaros]

I find that in nearly every case, the topmost of the two choices is winning. This is so extremely lopsided that it cannot be coincidental, so it strikes me that a lot of people are just voting for the first whenever they don't know either comic.

So in case anyone was still doubting this, no, the outcome of this poll really isn't representative of anything.

Even then I think these things are usually a measure of fanbase sizes rather than actual quality

[LuPuWei]

Erfworld vs Garfield-Garfield? That's a tough one for me... :smalleek:

[Killer Angel]

Erfworld vs Garfield-Garfield? That's a tough one for me... :smalleek:

It would have been.
Is Erfworld still a webcomic? :smallsigh:

[Flame of Anor]

It would have been.
Is Erfworld still a webcomic? :smallsigh:

As it says on the sidebar,

"Erfworld: Now at Erfworld.com (http://www.erfworld.com)!"

[FujinAkari]

It would have been.
Is Erfworld still a webcomic? :smallsigh:

Uuuuh... yes? Is this a trick question?

[Killer Angel]

Uuuuh... yes? Is this a trick question?

Since october 2011, Erfworld's updates are text only. 5 months and no new "real" comic.
I'm still following it, but for the moment, it hardly qualifies for the definition of webcomic, IMO.

[diggin_dale]

Hi all,
OOTS is in the 3rd round of ComicMix March Madness competition. Started with 64 web comics and now down to 32! Please help show your love of OOTS by voting at http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/22/round-3-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/

[Rorrik]

Oh man, Darths and Droids vs Penny Arcade, sad day!

Guess that's just how it goes in the later rounds:smallsigh:

[suzaliscious]

They're going to make me vote for QC v/s SMBC next round. Darn it.

OotS probably has the current round in the bag, and will likely take Dr. McNinja too. But then we have the big one, Order of the Stick v/s xkcd :smalleek: :smallfrown: :smallfrown: :smalleek: :smalleek: :smalleek:

[GreatEscape_13]

And yet, pointless when you're the equivalent of a major league baseball player going up against an elementary school T-ball team.

I agree with that if the award were for start-up money or "rookie" awards or something similar.

But I would expect that for a "best of the web" that it would still make sense to see the top players winning each year.

Cheers.

[B. Dandelion]

Round 4's up now (http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/26/sweet-16-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/). OOTS vs Dr. McNinja.

[suzaliscious]

'Twas as I suspected. (Not that that's too surprising.)

We should be able to make it into Round 5 with relatively little difficulty. Then comes the match with xkcd :-/

Xkcd has been getting more votes than OotS so far, so I'm worried for that one. Hell, it's even a heart-0wrenching choice for me.

But nah, I'll be voting fantasy over techgeekdom.

[Kalrany]

Our house is a split decision, my husband will cancle me out... Oh, well. I will say this -- I have found some interesting new webcomics via this contest that I have never heard of before, which is kinda cool in its own right.

[Milknut]

http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/26/sweet-16-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/

Tall order. I love both comics... but come on. OOTS till the end! Who's with me? :smallsmile:

[Gift Jeraff]

My hatred for xkcd...or my hatred for webcomic contests? Which do I give in to?

[FujinAkari]

The Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8523685&postcount=13) says you should side with your hatred of webcomic contests :P


Please do NOT vote for OOTS on Top Webcomics.

Top listing sites are largely a waste of time for any comic that is not starting out or otherwise trying to built an audience from scratch. That is not the case with OOTS; it's probably one of the top ten comics on the internet, though it's been a while since anyone tried to do a count. There was a time, years ago, when I participated in another such site—the long-since defunct BuzzComix. Even then, I rose to the top immediately and stayed there for three months with little effort—proving to me that my audience had already grown too large to participate in such rankings fairly.

The point is, it doesn't get me anything to be at the top of a list that means nothing, that just exists as a marketing strategy for a certain tier of comics and an ad-selling technique for the website owners. Plus, it would be rude of me to eliminate the opportunity for another comic to claim the top spot and grow their audience accordingly, when my reading audience already dwarfs theirs. Let Goblins or Phoenix Requiem take it; it doesn't hurt me any, and helps people who are doing work that maybe isn't as widely recognized as OOTS.

If I could, I would remove myself from the list, but since someone else signed me up for it, I can't. If you're the mystery person who put OOTS on that list, please delete it.

If you want to vote for OOTS for something, wait until OOTS is up for an award—a real award, not just a random website.

[FujinAkari]

... why are you all still bothering with this when Rich specifically asked people not to?

I mean, I guess it doesn't hurt anything, but it still seems pretty insensitive...

[Holy_Knight]

My hatred for xkcd...
Wow, really? You're the first person I've ever heard say they didn't like it!

[Math_Mage]

Wow, really? You're the first person I've ever heard say they didn't like it!

This is the Internet. There are numerous websites devoted to hating xkcd.

To be fair, it's starting to grate on me as well. But that may just be comic fatigue, considering how many strips it's gone through without a storyline.

[suzaliscious]

Xkcd's prime passed a while ago, but I'll always be a loyal fan. You can't deny it's starting to suck a little bit but you also can't deny the impact it's had on internet culture. People who don't read webcomics, have heard of xkcd.

I'd be willing to cut Randall Munroe some slack too, given his personal life. I don't bitch about the deteriorating quality and have a hearty chuckle at the gold he does manage to produce every now and then. S'all good.

[factotum]

Maybe I'm reading that website wrong, but XKCD is next round, isn't it? Dr. McNinja is the opponent in this one.

[blackspeeker]

Maybe I'm reading that website wrong, but XKCD is next round, isn't it? Dr. McNinja is the opponent in this one.

You're doing it right. OP might just think the current round is a sure thing.

[Killer Angel]

The Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8523685&postcount=13) says you should side with your hatred of webcomic contests :P

Not only this is right, but there's already another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236536) on the topic.
Don't you mind if I'll report this, asking for a thread merge, right? :smallwink:

[Onyavar]

This is the Internet. There are numerous websites devoted to hating xkcd.
[...]

I noticed before.
I also know that the main readership of The Deegan-Oracle only reads it because they hate it. I also have seen people who claim that they hate Girl Genius or Goblins for various reasons.

But I'm curious: Has anyone ever seen a dedicated OotS Hate page? I mean this is the Internet, right?

[LuPuWei]

Erfworld is falling behind...

[B. Dandelion]

... why are you all still bothering with this when Rich specifically asked people not to?

I mean, I guess it doesn't hurt anything, but it still seems pretty insensitive...

I don't think it's insensitive. I read what he said, and I don't vote for OOTS in monthly contests (unless he specifically asked us to, I probably wouldn't in any case). But I honestly didn't interpret this as being the kind of contest he's talking about. It's not a list. It's a multiple-round elimination tournament, and once it's over, it's over -- it's not a tedious repetition of voting OOTS into the top of every month, just because we think it should always be at the top of any list ever. Moreover, the competitors making it into successive rounds are not new, relatively unknown comics OOTS can't "fairly" compete against, but long-running established franchises, several with fanbases large enough to stomp us. They're not going to derive a significant benefit from coming out on top any more than OOTS is, and no one is detrimentally impacted by fans voting for their favorite success among the already-successful. In that aspect it's pointless, but how can you not want to see the outcome of OOTS vs XKCD (most likely a foregone conclusion, but there are worse comics to lose to)?

[FujinAkari]

I don't think it's insensitive. I read what he said, and I don't vote for OOTS in monthly contests (unless he specifically asked us to, I probably wouldn't in any case). But I honestly didn't interpret this as being the kind of contest he's talking about. It's not a list. It's a multiple-round elimination tournament, and once it's over, it's over -- it's not a tedious repetition of voting OOTS into the top of every month, just because we think it should always be at the top of any list ever.

Ah, so when Rich says "Please do NOT Vote for OOTS on Top Webcomics" you interpret that to mean "Ah hah, but this is a list for which Webcomics are the Top ones! This is clearly different!"

Erm... I disagree :P

[Savil]

Ah, so when Rich says "Please do NOT Vote for OOTS on Top Webcomics" you interpret that to mean "Ah hah, but this is a list for which Webcomics are the Top ones! This is clearly different!"

Erm... I disagree :P
...and you interpret it as "Do not vote for OOTS, ever!" :smalltongue:

Rich specifically mentions top listing sites for webcomics, where maintaining perpetual first place is a quest of futility, for lots of reasons listed before.
This, on the other hand, is a one-time event. Most of the arguments against voting do not apply here. This contest has gained quite a hype. There a lot of serious contenders, like Goblins, Homestuck and xkcd. Actually, most of the top 16 comics left are well known, and one of them is going to win, so why not OOTS?

[FujinAkari]

...and you interpret it as "Do not vote for OOTS, ever!" :smalltongue:

Not unless it is an actual award rather than a random website, again, straight from the Giant.

[suzaliscious]

We're doing it for fun. It's nice to show support for your favorite things, especially since in this particular contest, all the contenders are well known and established and OotS isn't unfairly denying any up-and-comers a chance in the spotlight.

In fact, the contest actually exposed several webcomics with low readership to its voters. I discovered Dumbing of Age, Unsounded and Gunnerkrigg Court solely because of this "competition".

So lighten up! It's not a serious thing, some well-established franchise has to win the meaningless prize and as a fan of OotS I would like to see it win, or at least make it to the top 4 :) It's more for the fans than anything.

[guguma]

I cannot comprehend how many votes XKCD gets even with its exponentially decreasing quality & humor.

[PrometheusMFD]

I noticed before.
I also know that the main readership of The Deegan-Oracle only reads it because they hate it. I also have seen people who claim that they hate Girl Genius or Goblins for various reasons.

But I'm curious: Has anyone ever seen a dedicated OotS Hate page? I mean this is the Internet, right?

There's no end to the criticism of the artwork, like stylization is a bad thing

[The Black Cat]

It's a moot point now, since Andrew Hussie of MSPA fame has imploded the website in question!

[B. Dandelion]

Ah, so when Rich says "Please do NOT Vote for OOTS on Top Webcomics" you interpret that to mean "Ah hah, but this is a list for which Webcomics are the Top ones! This is clearly different!"

Erm... I disagree :P

That isn't remotely what I said. I addressed the specific parameters of the contest and the nature of the other competitors. Do you maintain that OOTS cannot compete "fairly" against the likes of Penny Arcade and XKCD? If not, what part of that concern is relevant here?

[PrometheusMFD]

I think part of it is that fans tend to put so much effort into these things, much more than they require, when they do little to improve the medium.

[suzaliscious]

I don't see how some votes and/or forum posts is too much effort, personally.

[PrometheusMFD]

You'd be surprised on the lengths some people would go to revote to ensure their favorite series is the best.

[suzaliscious]

... don't think I would.

I guess some people get their feathers excessively ruffled over something meant purely for fun. Sucks for them, I suppose.

[mightycleric]

I noticed before.
I also know that the main readership of The Deegan-Oracle only reads it because they hate it. I also have seen people who claim that they hate Girl Genius or Goblins for various reasons.

But I'm curious: Has anyone ever seen a dedicated OotS Hate page? I mean this is the Internet, right?

If there is one, it might be run by one of the guys at MSPA. R. J. Lake who is the "Founder, Manager, CEO at Homestuck Gaiden", said "Seriously, Order of the Stick is terrible in absolutely every possible way."

It really upset me when I read those comments (especially sine the only possible way I could see somebody calling it "terrible" is in reference to the fact that Rich uses stick figures, and yet I still find it to be better drawn than Homestuck, and I think Rich has shown that even drawing stick figures can be quite artistic), and it really makes me hope that Homestuck loses in this round or the next one as a result. For a guy to target a comic that has done so much for webcomics as a whole, and just take a shot at it is really sad.

I don't know yet whether or not Rich wants us voting for OOTS to win (as I've seen arguments for both sides on this), but even if we shouldn't vote for him, I'd like to see us sink Homestuck (which I tried really hard to read, but just couldn't get through at all), especially since Girl Genius, the next comic it is up against seems to be a fairly good webcomic (I've been using that site as a sort of referral site to try to find some more webcomics to read, and was happy to have discovered GG from it).

If Rich wants us to win, then I say we try to win it for him, but if not, then let us at least make sure that a person who publicly maligns OOTS doesn't win (especially since Rich always tries to encourage other webcomics growth).

[Savil]

If there is one, it might be run by one of the guys at MSPA. R. J. Lake who is the "Founder, Manager, CEO at Homestuck Gaiden", said "Seriously, Order of the Stick is terrible in absolutely every possible way."

It really upset me when I read those comments (especially sine the only possible way I could see somebody calling it "terrible" is in reference to the fact that Rich uses stick figures, and yet I still find it to be better drawn than Homestuck, and I think Rich has shown that even drawing stick figures can be quite artistic), and it really makes me hope that Homestuck loses in this round or the next one as a result. For a guy to target a comic that has done so much for webcomics as a whole, and just take a shot at it is really sad.

I don't know yet whether or not Rich wants us voting for OOTS to win (as I've seen arguments for both sides on this), but even if we shouldn't vote for him, I'd like to see us sink Homestuck (which I tried really hard to read, but just couldn't get through at all), especially since Girl Genius, the next comic it is up against seems to be a fairly good webcomic (I've been using that site as a sort of referral site to try to find some more webcomics to read, and was happy to have discovered GG from it).

If Rich wants us to win, then I say we try to win it for him, but if not, then let us at least make sure that a person who publicly maligns OOTS doesn't win (especially since Rich always tries to encourage other webcomics growth).
Sinking another comics is exactly the thing that shouldn't be done :smallannoyed:
You're quoting a guy from a fan music band. How does this reflect the attitude of Andrew Hussie, who, AFAIK, solely runs MSPA? Did AH call to vote against OotS in his tumblr post about this contest? No. Actually, he asked to support Gunnerkrigg, and this helped to tip the scales in its favor.
Ok, you dislike Homestuck. Just don't spread your hatred

[mightycleric]

Sinking another comics is exactly the thing that shouldn't be done :smallannoyed:
You're quoting a guy from a fan music band. How does this reflect the attitude of Andrew Hussie, who, AFAIK, solely runs MSPA? Did AH call to vote against OotS in his tumblr post about this contest? No. Actually, he asked to support Gunnerkrigg, and this helped to tip the scales in its favor.
Ok, you dislike Homestuck. Just don't spread your hatred

The guy who posted identified himself as working as part of Homestuck, which is why I said what I did. I don't care for the comic, it is true, but that isn't why I posted this (there are several comics that I don't care for, and I'm not saying that any of them shouldn't be voted for or should be voted against). It had more to do with the fact that, after stating himself as a representative of one comic, he then bashed the entire existence of OOTS.

I don't want to vote for any webcomic that has somebody employed by it stating that another webcomic is "terrible in every possible way" as that just isn't a good thing in the webcomic industry. If it were a webcomic I liked, and I saw a statement like that from somebody officially associated with them, then I'd stop voting for them on principle.

[Tundar]

Wow, really? You're the first person I've ever heard say they didn't like it!
The double the amount by adding me to that pool.

[Calamity]

I don't want to vote for any webcomic that has somebody employed by it stating that another webcomic is "terrible in every possible way" as that just isn't a good thing in the webcomic industry. If it were a webcomic I liked, and I saw a statement like that from somebody officially associated with them, then I'd stop voting for them on principle.

The problem with that is Homestuck has a BIG music team. They're only 'employed' to create music for the comic, not to go around spreading Andrew Hussie's teachings throughout the web. A lot of these people started out as nothing but simple fans of the comic, and I don't think they should lose the right to their personal opinion just because they're part of the 'staff'. They're certainly not representative of AH's views, nor the views of the fandom in general. It's hardly fair to compare that to most other webcomics which are usually run solely by 1 or 2 people at best, usually just the authors and artist, which if any of those came out and slated another comic like that (including Hussie), I would agree with you and they'd lose my vote.

I personally think Homestuck is one of the best webcomics out there and would deservedly win, but as someone pointed out it probably doesn't need the attention, I definitely want to check out Gunnergrigg Court though. In my dream Homestuck and OotS make it to the final, and then I'm not sure where my loyalties would lie...

But it's a big ask for OotS to overcome xkcd. I'd like it to though!

[mightycleric]

The problem with that is Homestuck has a BIG music team. They're only 'employed' to create music for the comic, not to go around spreading Andrew Hussie's teachings throughout the web. A lot of these people started out as nothing but simple fans of the comic, and I don't think they should lose the right to their personal opinion just because they're part of the 'staff'. They're certainly not representative of AH's views, nor the views of the fandom in general. It's hardly fair to compare that to most other webcomics which are usually run solely by 1 or 2 people at best, usually just the authors and artist, which if any of those came out and slated another comic like that (including Hussie), I would agree with you and they'd lose my vote.

I personally think Homestuck is one of the best webcomics out there and would deservedly win, but as someone pointed out it probably doesn't need the attention, I definitely want to check out Gunnergrigg Court though. In my dream Homestuck and OotS make it to the final, and then I'm not sure where my loyalties would lie...

But it's a big ask for OotS to overcome xkcd. I'd like it to though!

I can understand that, and him stating his opinion wouldn't have been as big of a deal, if he hadn't mentioned his relationship with Homestuck in the same post that he did when speaking out against OOTS. The fact that he presented himself as an employee of Homestuck, then denouced everything about OOTS in the same post was what I found truly offensive.

I haven't gotten around to Gunnerkrigg Court, yet, as I've been catching up on other webcomics the bracket has, but I am planning to read it, too. I am currently finishing up Dr. McNinja, and I like it a lot, but not as much as OOTS, which is my favorite of all. Most of my preferred webcomics are on this side of the bracket, though, with Girl Genius being about the only one I've read and really enjoy on the other side (though there are a couple I haven't read).

As for OOTS beating xkcd, I don't think that happens unless Rich specifically says he would like for us to vote for OOTS. If he weighs in and says that it is fine for us to vote, then I think OOTS can win against xkcd and pretty much everybody else. If he says don't vote, or if he doesn't say anything, then I think xkcd wins.

[LuPuWei]

Actually, even a contest like this has its place. I'm sure some of the newer or lesser known comics would benefit from the recognition of bagging first or even being in the top four. But would being in the top four mean as much if the top four weren't also giants of the Webcomic world?

I agree, every contest shouldn't be a protracted popularity fest, but this helps people guage when their comic has gone from obscure dedicated fan following to maybe-I-can-live-off-my-comic-now status. Its like Grand Slam tennis. You watch it for the quality of tennis, but no-one deserves the prize unless it's 'cause they've actually beaten the top four.

And even if it's just about gathering eyeballs for lesser-known strips, there would be lesser eyeballs to gain without the heavyweights in the fray. Even if I didn't vote for them, I've read several new web-comics I'd never even heard of. And if OotS hadn't been in the contest, I would still not have heard of them.

Ultimatley, comics Are a popularity fest. They have to be, like any form of entertainment. If you aren't making the audience laugh, cry, or comeback for more for whatever reason, you're just talking to a wall. And that is useful feedback.

[B. Dandelion]

So, we're at the fateful OOTS vs XKCD match (http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/29/elite-eight-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/).

Also Questionable Content v Gunnerkrigg Court, Homestuck v Girl Genius, and and Goblins v Romantically Apocalyptic.

[Math_Mage]

I'm really glad to see Romantically Apocalyptic make it this far, though also faintly puzzled. It must have come out of a weak bracket. And now it's unsurprisingly taking a beating.

But OotS is ahead of xkcd in the early voting. I'm down with that.

[mightycleric]

I'm actually surprised overall at how the results are going so far. I'm surprised that OOTS and GC both have the lead (thought they'd be trailing by a lot), I thought GG would be getting hammered, but am pleasantly surprised to see that it is still hanging tough (though still behind and will have trouble gaining any ground). The only one that is really no surprise is Goblins vs. RA, which is a bit sad, since I just found out about RA and thought it quite interesting, and because it seems to be one of the youngest webcomics in the tourney (and the youngest one left).

It has been a fun tourney to watch, and I look forward to seeing how it shapes up (and I've added 3 webcomics so far to my regular reading list, and still have a couple more to try out, which is the main point of it from my perspective).

[Morquard]

:elan: Vote, vote, vote, vote for the Order of the Stick and don't let xkcd win!

[dakameleon]

Huh, OotS is still leading...



MMM 2012 Round 5 #4
Order of the Stick (55%, 2,399 Votes)
xkcd (45%, 1,943 Votes)

[B. Dandelion]

OOTS had the early lead, but xkcd's been steadily gaining ground. It was 59% for OOTS when I linked to the site earlier, and it's only gone down since.

54% for OOTS now.

[Math_Mage]

2748-2317 right now. 349 votes to 374 in the last couple hours. Deadline is midnight Saturday. Gonna be tight.

[mightycleric]

OOTS had the early lead, but xkcd's been steadily gaining ground. It was 59% for OOTS when I linked to the site earlier, and it's only gone down since.

54% for OOTS now.

It is definitely a close match, but seeing as how xkcd was the top vote getter from last round, this is pretty impressive so far. Also, while the percentage has changed, the number of votes separating the two has been around the same amount for a while now (and is up from what it was 7 hours ago by a couple hundred).

[Rorrik]

Wow, we might really get xkcd, but then it's oots against goblins and in honor of Rich's wishes to promote other's I'll vote Goblins.

[fwiffo]

Wow, we might really get xkcd, but then it's oots against goblins and in honor of Rich's wishes to promote other's I'll vote Goblins.

For me, it would be precisely the reason to vote the other way. OOTS is getting voted through not because the author is constantly pushing it. Quite the opposite, Giant is vaguely discouraging this. It is getting to higher brackets because of the quality of the comic and because fans want it to win.

On the other hand, Goblins, from the time I started reading it, to the time when I got bored with constant battle porn, is very much into self-promotion. "Click on this link and see some art... oh, and it also votes for the strip" was constant theme there. Even now, when I popped there, I see "if I win this round, you get XXX". Meh.

[blackspeeker]

Although getting to see Thunt's map would be really cool

[Chess435]

And we're still holding a 55-45 advantage. We might actually pull this off!

[mightycleric]

The OOTS lead is now over 900 votes, which is impressive in a battle between two internet juggernauts. Also impressive is how well GG has hung with Homestuck. It is only around 300 votes behind, and is the #4 overall in votes, behind Goblins (by a large margin), OOTS (by a little over 600), and Homestuck, meaning that it is actually getting more votes than xkcd (by almost 300).

If OOTS holds on here, it will almost assuredly face Goblins (I wonder who Red Cloak would vote for) unless Zee Captain pulls off another miracle, but after that, it could be any of the other 4, but Homestuck seems to be the favorite.

[B. Dandelion]

Goblins, from the time I started reading it, to the time when I got bored with constant battle porn, is very much into self-promotion. "Click on this link and see some art... oh, and it also votes for the strip" was constant theme there. Even now, when I popped there, I see "if I win this round, you get XXX". Meh.

I still like Goblins, but that irks me a little too. I'm not sure it could have influenced my vote at this stage, but that's because most of the remaining matchups are not difficult choices for me -- the only choice that would have been hard was Goblins v xkcd, which is now looking less likely to happen. If xkcd had beaten OOTS, then gone up against Goblins, whose author was offering up info in the case of victory... that proposition ticks me off a little. My vote's not for sale, dammit!

[Math_Mage]

Well, RA went from 24% of the vote to 37%, but I haven't been keeping track of the absolute vote difference and I have a feeling it hasn't shrunk that much.

Having not read the other two apparent favorites (Goblins and Homestuck), I'm voting across the bottom of the poll.

[whitehelm]

Homestuck's author promoted this round in his tumblr this morning, and suddenly it's got a 2000 vote lead. That would be difficult to beat.

[Euodiachloris]

The gap's closed a lot: OotS is only at 52% right now. Yup, you read that right.

[blackspeeker]

Hope OotS doesn't get knocked out in the eleventh hour, I really wanted next round to be a battle of fantasy juggernaut's.

[asphias]

while i've got no clue on Gunnerkrigg Court, i do know the goblins and homestuck authors have been promoting this contest, while so far rich made no mention of the contest at all.

not saying that the other comics deserve it less, but should rich decide to make a mention on his twitter/news page (which i doubt he will do), then i'm sure oots will surge right back up to the 10.000 votes where goblins and homestuck now are.:smallamused:

but even without that, it's going to be an interesting final four for sure, as i suspect a lot of people voted on both goblins and oots in this round, and they'll have to choose in the next one.

[Rorrik]

However, Goblins is the only way I know to find the link to the voting page, very convenient.

[mightycleric]

However, Goblins is the only way I know to find the link to the voting page, very convenient.

Here is a link to the current page: http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/03/29/elite-eight-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/

For future rounds, if you go to a previous round (like this one), then they will have a link to the next round on it. Those links will take you to the current round (though if you start at round 2, then to get to round 6 you will have to go through round 3-5 first).

[Crisis21]

I'll keep an eye on this. Thanks for letting me know about it.

[Gift Jeraff]

The Giant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8523685&postcount=13) says you should side with your hatred of webcomic contests :PActually, I decided that my love of OOTS overpowers both my hatred of xkcd and of webcomic contests, and I learned that love is always more powerful than hate, the power of friendship, good will always triumph over evil, etc.

[Math_Mage]

Down to the wire, folks. Though I don't seriously expect a comeback at this point.

[mightycleric]

Well, it looks like it is over, and OOTS has advanced another round, knocking off the comic that got the most votes in the previous round. However, it looks like we will have to duplicate that feat in order to advance into the finals, as the heavyweight Goblins is up next (fresh off of their beating of the last true underdog of the tourney, RA).

This will be interesting as it pits two D&D themed webcomics against each other, as well as two different styles by the authors. While Rich hasn't weighed in one way or another about this contest, apparently the author of Goblins has been promoting it. I know that even the OOTS fan-base also has a lot of Goblins fans, so it could prove to be one of the toughest decisions so far. I think that OOTS has the potential to win the entire tourney, but I don't know whether it will happen.

On the other side, now comes the difficult moment for MSPA fans, since the author wants them to vote for GC, but they will want to show they are loyal fans by voting for MSPA. On both sides of the bracket, it appears that a lot of people could find themselves quite torn, so it should be interesting to watch.

[B. Dandelion]

:smallyuk: @ this guy

anyway: OOTS is genuinely not very good; it has very little effort put into it whatsoever and its plot is piecemeal. It has a large following because it blatantly panders to a demographic that loves being pandered to.

Goblins is alright. It's not the best but as far as Comics Based On The Fact That Table Top Games Are Popular And Have Pleasable Fans it is much better than OOTS, which, as mentioned, should not have even made it this far. In a perfect world. Just because something is popular doesn't make it good, and OOTS is one of the biggest examples. Least I Could Do is another, though thankfully that one already was kicked out

Randal Munroe used to have one of the single best strips currently running, but now he has only one of the most consistently average. XKCD doesn't suck, like that blog say, but it certainly doesn't rock any boats anymore. Still, it beats the **** out of OOTS, as it's actually -drawn.- Its stick figures and charming hand drawn aesthetic win out over whatever weird flashpose dollthing is going on over there in lazytown.

I'm especially impressed by the "pandering" remark, since he seems to be referring to tabletop gamers. Yes, I love the comic for the incessant pandering it does to games I don't play. Rich is also totally lazy for not drawing the comic out when that would actually take less time. He's accurate and insightful.

(BTW if you're about to say anything about today's date, the remarks are from March 31st and he was saying similar things all last week)

But hey, we totally beat xkcd! Did not see that coming. So by that standard OOTS is the most popular web-based stick-figure comic currently running. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverlyNarrowSuperlative) Woo! From the vote totals Goblins should be primed to easily kick our butts, but xkcd also beat us in vote totals in every single round before it went up against us. So here's hoping.

[mightycleric]

:smallyuk: @ this guy


I'm especially impressed by the "pandering" remark, since he seems to be referring to tabletop gamers. Yes, I love the comic for the incessant pandering it does to games I don't play. Rich is also totally lazy for not drawing the comic out when that would actually take less time. He's accurate and insightful.

(BTW if you're about to say anything about today's date, the remarks are from March 31st and he was saying similar things all last week)

But hey, we totally beat xkcd! Did not see that coming. So by that standard OOTS is the most popular web-based stick-figure comic currently running. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OverlyNarrowSuperlative) Woo! From the vote totals Goblins should be primed to easily kick our butts, but xkcd also beat us in vote totals in every single round before it went up against us. So here's hoping.

That's the guy I was talking about earlier who identified himself as working for MSPA before slandering OOTS (not to mention slandering OOTS fans). The funny thing is that his statement of "Just because something is popular doesn't make it good" could easily be used to talk about MSPA be somebody who doesn't like that.

Because of his comments, I found it pretty funny when I saw that somebody, in reference to MSPA, said this: "Homestuck should never have made it past the first round. ;-; The art is so terrible, jesus christ. Can you say unfunny and lazy? (Yes you can) Especially in the latest parts. It’s like Hussie isn’t even trying anymore".

It was just amusing to see basically the first guy's basic attacks on OOTS directed right back at the comic that he works for by somebody else. To be fair, I don't think either person is correct when they state that Rich or Hussie are lazy. I think it shows a lack of understanding to state that. The only real difference between the two is that one is just a random poster on the internet, but one made his statements while stating that he worked for another webcomic (not in that part quoted above, but still in that post as well as at least one other where he bashes OOTS).


I am glad to see that OOTS beat xkcd, though, and it will be interesting against Goblins next round. Who knows how far OOTS will go, but for the fact that it hasn't been promoted by Rich at all (and the other 3 have been promoted by somebody), that's pretty impressive already. I would love to see what would actually happen if Rich did tell everybody to vote for OOTS in the last two rounds.

[Mordokai]

:smallyuk: @ this guy

I am much amused by the fact that the guy claims that xkcd is being drawn. And OOTS is what? Being pulled out of the brown hole of Rich's posterior?

I like and read both comics, though I prefer OOTS much more. And for like two months, I can't even see xkcd anymore... not sure what's up with that. But claiming that the latter is being drawn and thusly implying that the former is not and because of that somehow lesser is... uneducated, to put it mildly.

[B. Dandelion]

I am much amused by the fact that the guy claims that xkcd is being drawn. And OOTS is what? Being pulled out of the brown hole of Rich's posterior?

From the "weird flashpose dollthing" he refers to, I gather he believes the comic is some kind of simple manipulation of pre-rendered images in a flash program, with no additional artistic input from Rich.

[Math_Mage]

Final Four (http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/04/02/final-four-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/) up now. OotS vs. Goblins, Gunnerkrigg Court vs. Homestuck.

[Haldir]

Goblins is amusing, but not up to snuff with the OOTS.

[B. Dandelion]

I wonder what Thunt will have to say about him against OOTS? I'm looking forward to that update. (Well, except for the fact that it's guaranteed to link a ton of Goblins fans straight to the polls...)

And nobody won that $50 prize for guessing the final four? I saw a few people favor OOTS over xkcd, but it looks like no one foresaw Gunnerkrigg topping Questionable Content.

[Kurald Galain]

Goblins is amusing, but not up to snuff with the OOTS.

Yes. But then, Rich just broke several records with his Kickstarter reprint drive, which is slightly more meaningful than Thunt doing all he can to cajole his fans into voting repeatedly.

[keldorn]

I voted OOTS and GC, but my main concern is that whichever DnD comic wins is capable of thumping MSPA.

[Smolder]

At the end of the day, all that is important is that a lot of the lesser known comics got some much needed and deserved exposure and hopefully picked up a few new fans among the hordes of voters that eagerly eliminated them while voting for OotS. Go, OOTS, GO!

[keldorn]

At the end of the day, all that is important is that a lot of the lesser known comics got some much needed and deserved exposure and hopefully picked up a few new fans among the hordes of voters that eagerly eliminated them while voting for OotS. Go, OOTS, GO!

Yep, I hadn't read Goblins before and now have it on my favourites. I've also read the first two volumes of Gunnerkrigg Court and am continuing to work through the rest. And I've learnt that MSPA is as flabby as the worst fantasy saga written after publishers realised that they didn't have to confine themselves to trilogies but could spread what could be a good 140 page novel over even more space.

[dogfish44]

Prefer OoTS, but voted Goblins (Publicity for the lesser known). OTOH, the vote for GC is incredibly easy.

[Gandariel]

Voted for OOTS of course, we're 60 or so votes above Goblins!

[Halleflux]

Please note that, as many have said, Rich does NOT want to win one of these.

[Kurald Galain]

Please note that, as many have said, Rich does NOT want to win one of these.

I'd say he doesn't care either way. Surely he doesn't want to intentionally lose, either.

Yes, it's good if polls such as this give extra exposure to startup comics. However, whatever is left in the final rounds now is clearly not such a startup anyway.

[Math_Mage]

Please note that, as many have said, Rich does NOT want to win one of these.

Reason being to support other comics that need exposure. Does Goblins need more exposure? How about xkcd, from last round? Sure, I vote up Gunnerkrigg Court, whose author just went full-time; I voted for Romantically Apocalyptic, the dark horse of the final eight. (I missed the earliest rounds, where this injunction would have been relevant.) But if we're talking about which big-name comic will get the nod, might as well be OotS. No?

[Tricia]

Please note that Rich has said that he doesn't want people to vote for him on Top Webcomics or other such perpetual listing sites. This is something entirely different, and we have no idea what his stance is on it. His (very sound) reasoning of taking exposure away from start-up and lesser-known comics isn't exactly applicable when we're competing with other webcomic juggernauts.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar, at least.

[B. Dandelion]

Reason being to support other comics that need exposure. Does Goblins need more exposure? How about xkcd, from last round? Sure, I vote up Gunnerkrigg Court, whose author just went full-time; I voted for Romantically Apocalyptic, the dark horse of the final eight. (I missed the earliest rounds, where this injunction would have been relevant.) But if we're talking about which big-name comic will get the nod, might as well be OotS. No?

That's exactly how I feel, too.

Actually, even if they were lesser-known comics, I still think it'd be a bit silly to discourage OOTS posters from going over there in the name of greater exposure for other comics, because to look at the comments in this thread it's actually going around the other way entirely: OOTS fans are heading off to vote for Rich and in the process are themselves being exposed to new comics!

It's like what I was saying earlier about it being a different kind of contest. It's one thing to vote for OOTS in a "top 100" list where you pick your favorite out a sea of other comics you've most likely never heard of. The comics that make it to the top benefit, but no one else does. In an elimination tournament, you have to vote against other comics specifically and that encourages people to at least check out the competition so they can vote fairly. So for that kind of contest, a super-popular comic is actually in the position to help even the losers.

ETA: Oh sheesh, I just saw the latest stats.


Order of the Stick (50%, 982 Votes)
Goblins (50%, 977 Votes)

Five votes, wow.

[asphias]

yeah, i'm quite sure that the "dont vote for oots" was entirely about such monthly comic lists. i wouldn't dare to assume we know what rich' stance is on this contest, which is almost completely, but not entirely unlike those monthly contests.

also, we're 5 votes behind at the moment :smallconfused:


and suddenly we're one vote ahead! yay!:smallbiggrin:

this is going to be one close battle though...

[Math_Mage]

Yeah, talk about a close contest. But now OotS is a solid 29 votes ahead and I'm totally confident that margin will persist for the rest of the voting period. :smalltongue:

[Funmerchant]

When I found these now merged threads, on the surface, I first thought, don't vote OotS, The Giant wouldn't want us to. Then I did due diligence.

While nothing short of a direct comment by The Giant could change FujinAkari's opinion, let's review the evidence we do have.


The Giant - 05-19-2010, 03:26 PM - Re: Vote for OOTS!

Please do NOT vote for OOTS on Top Webcomics.

Top listing sites are largely a waste of time for any comic that is not starting out or otherwise trying to built an audience from scratch. That is not the case with OOTS; it's probably one of the top ten comics on the internet, though it's been a while since anyone tried to do a count. There was a time, years ago, when I participated in another such site—the long-since defunct BuzzComix. Even then, I rose to the top immediately and stayed there for three months with little effort—proving to me that my audience had already grown too large to participate in such rankings fairly.

The point is, it doesn't get me anything to be at the top of a list that means nothing, that just exists as a marketing strategy for a certain tier of comics and an ad-selling technique for the website owners. Plus, it would be rude of me to eliminate the opportunity for another comic to claim the top spot and grow their audience accordingly, when my reading audience already dwarfs theirs. Let Goblins or Phoenix Requiem take it; it doesn't hurt me any, and helps people who are doing work that maybe isn't as widely recognized as OOTS.

If I could, I would remove myself from the list, but since someone else signed me up for it, I can't. If you're the mystery person who put OOTS on that list, please delete it.

If you want to vote for OOTS for something, wait until OOTS is up for an award—a real award, not just a random website.http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8523685&postcount=13

The Giant's first point is about voting for established comics. This is largely a waste of time, with no real benefit. This holds true in this case. Comicmix's tourney doesn't do much for the winners if they're established.

The Giant's second point is about pariticipating fairly. This does not hold true in this instance. This competition is primarily amongst established comics with dedicated, even vocal, fanbases. Start-up comics, while included at the start, have all steadily been eliminated.

The Giant then expands his first point, and comments on the voting sites themselves. Top Webcomics, like BuzzComic was, is a simple vote-a-thon, ads, ads, ads. This is not the case with ComicMix. Check the homepage, look around, this is a content driven site. ComicMix has things to say about such small players ;) as DC and Marvel. ComicMix runs an occassional specific poll and an annual 'all-in' voting tourney.

The Giant goes on to mention by name two other webcomics. It is now important to note that this was said in May 2010, almost two years ago. Goblins, which I read, is no longer uncompetative, and Phoenix Requiem was not even listed in the first round.

The Giant then makes clear a specific desire not to be listed to Top Webcomics.

The Giant's closing point is about fans who want to support OotS with votes.
- What makes a real award? Is a real award only peer review, or is people's choice also valid? Clearly, anything fans vote for is the later, so what makes one better than another? I contend that ComicMix's tourney scrapes in as a real award. An open annual process, with noteworthy serious contenders and public nominations, in a seeded tourney style.
- What website is not just random? Checking the people involved with ComicmMix, ( http://www.comicmix.com/contributors/ ), this is a serious site, with people who have some real-world credentials. Not CNN, BBC or Al Jazeera, but not bad as far as comics and webcomics go.

Clearly, The Giant is a humble man, happy in his own successes, not a competative glory hound seeking to trample kids in the playground. However, if as a fan of OotS, you wish to express yourself by voting, I believe the ComicMix Tourney is not an option to which The Giant would object. That's not to say he would encourage you to vote, ever, for anything.

[Gwain]

Order of the Stick shouldn't have even made it this far. Questionable Content as well.

this is the only reason i would like oots to get to the finals (aaand thunt's way of always advertising his comic everywhere, it's getting boring tbh)

If i could i would have voted romantically apocalyptic all the way through (I feel ashamed i voted for RA and goblins, instead of just RA two times...)

[mightycleric]

When I found these now merged threads, on the surface, I first thought, don't vote OotS, The Giant wouldn't want us to. Then I did due diligence.

While nothing short of a direct comment by The Giant could change FujinAkari's opinion, let's review the evidence we do have.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8523685&postcount=13

The Giant's first point is about voting for established comics. This is largely a waste of time, with no real benefit. This holds true in this case. Comicmix's tourney doesn't do much for the winners if they're established.

The Giant's second point is about pariticipating fairly. This does not hold true in this instance. This competition is primarily amongst established comics with dedicated, even vocal, fanbases. Start-up comics, while included at the start, have all steadily been eliminated.

The Giant then expands his first point, and comments on the voting sites themselves. Top Webcomics, like BuzzComic was, is a simple vote-a-thon, ads, ads, ads. This is not the case with ComicMix. Check the homepage, look around, this is a content driven site. ComicMix has things to say about such small players ;) as DC and Marvel. ComicMix runs an occassional specific poll and an annual 'all-in' voting tourney.

The Giant goes on to mention by name two other webcomics. It is now important to note that this was said in May 2010, almost two years ago. Goblins, which I read, is no longer uncompetative, and Phoenix Requiem was not even listed in the first round.

The Giant then makes clear a specific desire not to be listed to Top Webcomics.

The Giant's closing point is about fans who want to support OotS with votes.
- What makes a real award? Is a real award only peer review, or is people's choice also valid? Clearly, anything fans vote for is the later, so what makes one better than another? I contend that ComicMix's tourney scrapes in as a real award. An open annual process, with noteworthy serious contenders and public nominations, in a seeded tourney style.
- What website is not just random? Checking the people involved with ComicmMix, ( http://www.comicmix.com/contributors/ ), this is a serious site, with people who have some real-world credentials. Not CNN, BBC or Al Jazeera, but not bad as far as comics and webcomics go.

Clearly, The Giant is a humble man, happy in his own successes, not a competative glory hound seeking to trample kids in the playground. However, if as a fan of OotS, you wish to express yourself by voting, I believe the ComicMix Tourney is not an option to which The Giant would object. That's not to say he would encourage you to vote, ever, for anything.

That was very elegantly put, and I think that the logic you used appears to be quite sound. It makes a lot of sense to show why this is quite a bit different from those monthly contests.

One other thing that I think should be pointed out is that it is almost impossible for Rich to not know about this contest going on, as well as the discussion about it on the forums. I think (but am not 100% sure) that if he didn't want us voting in a contest like this, that he would have stated such in a reply. I think that he isn't going to encourage us to vote, as he doesn't care about the contest that much, and he certainly doesn't need to win it to know that he has an awesome fan base (I'm pretty sure that if he had any doubts, that the Kickstarter project got rid of those), but that he doesn't mind it if we do.

One thing that really makes me feel this way is this comment by the guy in charge of the tourney: "One high-traffic webcomic creator told me he very specifically didn't promote Mix March Madness because he was a bit concerned about what his fan base might do. Seems they hacked a poll at least once before…"

It was in reply to discussion about Rich and whether he was aware of the contest since he hadn't said anything about it. As such this appears to be referencing talking to Rich about the contest, and since OOTS stayed in the contest, it seems that it is just that Rich won't promote it because he thinks we would kill the servers, but isn't opposed to us participating.

The logical conclusion I reach is that Rich doesn't mind us voting, and if that is the case, then I hope to see us win the tourney for OOTS, even when going up against other comics that have been heavily promoted by their authors. I'll do what I can to help OOTS win (at least against Goblins and MSPA), because I truly think it is the best webcomic.

[Gwain]

One thing that really makes me feel this way is this comment by the guy in charge of the tourney: "One high-traffic webcomic creator told me he very specifically didn't promote Mix March Madness because he was a bit concerned about what his fan base might do. Seems they hacked a poll at least once before…"


I tought he was talking about MSPA... :x (but, you're probably right, because Hussey DID promote it, so...)

[suzaliscious]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Fummerchant.

This tourney did what it was meant to do. Through it, I discovered Dumbing of Age and am now a die-hard Looking for Group fan (FOR PONY!!!). The dark horses have in fact gotten exposure and now it's just time for the popularity contest to ride itself out :)

One bad thing that came out of this: I no longer read Goblins. Thunt's attitude towards this competition left a very, very bitter taste in my mouth. His comic is now popular enough that he should like others of his calibre stay silent on the matter instead of hawking voters to the poll. The man is talented, no doubt: it's why I began reading his comic in the first place. But he is a terrible sport and I cannot read the art of a man I do not respect.

[Lateral]

I tought he was talking about MSPA... :x (but, you're probably right, because Hussey DID promote it, so...)

Eh. I think that his 'olive garden' comment probably was meant to put people off. In his usual trollish way.


One bad thing that came out of this: I no longer read Goblins. Thunt's attitude towards this competition left a very, very bitter taste in my mouth. His comic is now popular enough that he should like others of his calibre stay silent on the matter instead of hawking voters to the poll. The man is talented, no doubt: it's why I began reading his comic in the first place. But he is a terrible sport and I cannot read the art of a man I do not respect.
Again, eh. Goblins still has one of the smallest fanbases of the surviving comics, and it could use the publicity. Besides, it's not like he's being a bad sport. He basically linked to the contest and asked for votes through jokes.

[Smolder]

Let Goblins or Phoenix Requiem take it


Seems like the Giant has weighed in on this particular match-up...

[Gift Jeraff]

Well, I am glad to have discovered Romantically Apocalyptic through this (I found the time to read through it today). Very rare that I am engrossed in a webcomic on my first try. Not even my two favorites--OOTS and 8-bit Theater--did that.

[Sith_Happens]

From the "weird flashpose dollthing" he refers to, I gather he believes the comic is some kind of simple manipulation of pre-rendered images in a flash program, with no additional artistic input from Rich.

Even if it was, so what? I've never seen anyone complain about how most animated films and TV shows aren't hand-drawn anymore, because the simple fact is they just plain look better the way they're made now, and that can only be a good thing.

[mightycleric]

Well, I am glad to have discovered Romantically Apocalyptic through this (I found the time to read through it today). Very rare that I am engrossed in a webcomic on my first try. Not even my two favorites--OOTS and 8-bit Theater--did that.

Wow, it has been a long time since I thought about 8-Bit Theater. That was an awesome comic. RA was one of the 3 top webcomics that I discovered because of this contest, and because it is newer, it was really easy to catch up on, too. I still plan to take a look at several of the other ones from earlier rounds, when I get the chance.

In other news, OOTS is actually still clinging to a small lead over Goblins, and I hope that keeps up. I also hope that GC can turn things around against MSPA, but it isn't likely. If OOTS is to win, they will most likely have to go through the #3 (xkcd), #2 (Goblins), and #1 (MSPA) seed for the tourney, but I think we can do it.

[Ping Pong Along]

This was tough, but I went with Goblins. They are both great comics.

I think Rich is a better storyteller, but Thunt has a better story. They are both great comics that I love and have been reading for years, but Goblins just has me hooked in a way that OotS doesn't.

[Gez]

While nothing short of a direct comment by The Giant could change FujinAkari's opinion, let's review the evidence we do have.

This is all that's needed:

If you want to vote for OOTS for something, wait until OOTS is up for an award—a real award, not just a random website.

TopWebcomics and the likes is just a daily list of the most popular webcomics out there. Not an award.

This ComicMix thing is a yearly event, much closer to the "real award" category.

[50Copper]

To everyone who says we shouldn't vote for OotS before Rich says so:

Are you incapable of thinking for yourself? It's a popularity contest and you supposedly like the comic, so why would you not vote for it? This isn't a matter of exposure, Goblins is well established.

If you prefer Goblins, by all means, opt for it, but if you're abstaining because Rich says so, that's not worthy of respect in any capacity. Be an individual.

[JesusCraig]

Never have I felt my vote counted for so much.


MMM 2012 Round 6 #2
Order of the Stick (50%, 2,754 Votes)
Goblins (50%, 2,753 Votes)
Total Voters: 5,507

[fwiffo]

Very close vote - 50-50, with the difference at this time being less than 5 people.

If it is going to keep going like that, it will be decided in last few minutes.

To me, personally, the comic quality of two respective comics is not that close. I would much rather take carefully plotted, written and detailed storytelling of OOTS over the essentially randomly generated danger-a-minute combat heavy plotting of Goblins. It has considerably improved characterization over early days, but it still has lots of room for improvement.

Still, this being OOTS forum, I am likely preaching to the choir. The vote is 50-50 on our side. The only remaining underdog that qualifies for "let them win, they need the exposure" is GC, and it seems to be losing by a rather wide margin on the other side.

http://www.comicmix.com/news/2012/04/02/final-four-of-mix-march-madness-2012-webcomics-tournament-vote-now/

[B. Dandelion]

Even if it was, so what?

You're asking me?


I've never seen anyone complain about how most animated films and TV shows aren't hand-drawn anymore,

I have, actually.


because the simple fact is they just plain look better the way they're made now, and that can only be a good thing.

Dude mistakenly thinks the comic is made "lazily" which is apparently a black mark in his book. It's a black mark in my book that he'd criticize the comic for something it doesn't actually do.

I didn't weigh in on the issue of whether the comic actually would be inferior if done in Flash. My point is that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

[FujinAkari]

While nothing short of a direct comment by The Giant could change FujinAkari's opinion, let's review the evidence we do have.

Uh? I already voted OOTS... what are you talking about?

[suzaliscious]

I think people thought you weren't voting on ComicMix.

Also, we might need a fresh wave of voting. We've lost our 140 man lead from yesterday and fallen behind 40 votes. It's nail-biting.

[B. Dandelion]

It's not a good sign that we're behind and Thunt hasn't even done the plug for this round yet.

[Maxios]

I don't really care who wins this, as long as it isn't MSPA/Homestuck.

[blackjack217]

Seems like the Giant has weighed in on this particular match-up...

Sorry top webcomics is something completely different. It also involves massive cheating.

[Gez]

Also, that was two years ago. The Phoenix Requiem has been completed and its author moved on to another project; and Goblins is now a big and famous webcomic which doesn't need further advertising to get a place in the limelight. Its readers bought the author a house, after all.

If it was written nowadays, Rich would probably have cited Unsounded and Gunnerkrigg Court instead of Goblins and TPR.

[B. Dandelion]

I have to admit I'm just a tiny bit annoyed at the idea of all those Goblins fans who have been widely disseminating (both on ComicMix and the Goblins board) the Giant's old 2010 post and telling people not to vote for OOTS, winning and then turning around and congratulating Goblins for being more popular than the comic that raised over a million dollars on Kickstarter.

They're about 180 votes ahead now.

[FujinAkari]

I think people thought you weren't voting on ComicMix.

I was arguing against smashing small webcomics which need the exposure because Rich specifically asked us not to do that. We are past that stage now, and I think it is pretty petty that Thunt is trying to buy votes.

[Sith_Happens]

You're asking me?

I was asking rhetorically.:smallbiggrin:


Dude mistakenly thinks the comic is made "lazily" which is apparently a black mark in his book. It's a black mark in my book that he'd criticize the comic for something it doesn't actually do.

I didn't weigh in on the issue of whether the comic actually would be inferior if done in Flash. My point is that guy doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

Right, I was simply adding to that point by challenging the premise upon which he made the accusation whose accuracy you already disputed.

[B. Dandelion]

Goblin's solicit's up (http://www.goblinscomic.com/goblins-vs-order-of-the-stick/). Not only is he very complimentary, he adds:


EDIT: (*) You know what? The more I think about it, the more I feel like a jerk face for offering you stuff to get you to vote. I’ll post the Shield of Wonder info and the map whether Goblins wins or not. Just give me enough time to get those things in order. :)

I had a bit of a problem with him doing that, although (as I said on the ComicMix board) I think it was probably meant as more of a "additional thing to celebrate with if we win" than a straight-up incentive to vote, and the other implication probably just hadn't occurred to him. Backing down on that really reaffirms it and is IMO classy. So, thanks, Mr. Hunt, if you win this round you'll definitely be getting my vote in the next.

[mightycleric]

Goblin's solicit's up (http://www.goblinscomic.com/goblins-vs-order-of-the-stick/). Not only is he very complimentary, he adds:



I had a bit of a problem with him doing that, although (as I said on the ComicMix board) I think it was probably meant as more of a "additional thing to celebrate with if we win" than a straight-up incentive to vote, and the other implication probably just hadn't occurred to him. Backing down on that really reaffirms it and is IMO classy. So, thanks, Mr. Hunt, if you win this round you'll definitely be getting my vote in the next.

Yeah, what he just posted, overall, is really putting him in a different light, now. The fact that he recognized the bad message that he seemed to be sending is really cool, and that he is going to give those things regardless is nice. This is especially true since this is the first round it has been this close for him (even though, unfortunately, he is still leading).

The biggest thing for me, though, was when I saw that he had said


Let me also take this moment to say that Order Of The Stick is nothing short of brilliant. In my opinion, it’s much funnier than Goblins. The timing of the jokes are astounding. I still laugh at “bluff the stupid ogre”. If you haven’t read OotS yet, go do so now.

It almost sounds like if he were voting, that he'd vote for OOTS. I will be voting for a D&D based comic in the finals, but I still hold out hope that we can reclaim the lead so that the comic I'm voting to win it all is OOTS.

[B. Dandelion]

I would still like OOTS to win, but it's 600 votes behind now. :smallfrown: The gap between Goblins and OOTS is bigger than the one between MSPA and GC.

[Math_Mage]

A full 1050+ votes now. Ah well. On the bright side, Gunnerkrigg Court is hanging tough, just 300 votes out.

[Umberhulk]

I have been supporting Goblins up until today, when my two favorite webcomics finally compete. Now I must vote my conscience, and Goblins is going down!

[Morquard]

I have been supporting Goblins up until today, when my two favorite webcomics finally compete. Now I must vote my conscience, and Goblins is going down!
I'm in the same boat. I like Goblins, but I love OotS, so it didn't take 3 seconds for me to decide who to vote for.
Unfortunately the gap is not 1200+ votes.

So unless the giant is doing a similar "vote for me" post, I don't think we're going to win. And I don't think the Giant is going to do that.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Gah, Goblins vs. OotS? Noooo....

I had to go with OotS. It's just better, though marginally. And I really hope Gunnerkrigg Court gets some votes today and beats out Homestuck but it's probably not going to. Sigh.

[Eigenclass]

Don't get me wrong - OOTS all the way - but don't hate on thunt, man. Some of his fans are a bit overzealous, and thunt himself seems a bit goofy sometimes, but this guy is actually unrealistically nice. Think a more subtle Pinkie Pie crossed with that horse from the Care Bear Cousins - that's thunt.

All of these guys deserve their success and much more - and I think in a fair world, Goblins and OOTS would be competing for the Hugo Award (or the young adult fantasy one at least - forget the name), not just a fan-voted webcomic popularity contest. Anyway, I don't think the exposure hurts, even if a given comic doesn't win.

[dogfish44]

Roughly 14 hours to go, and tbqh I'm not complaining at the current setup.

[teratorn]

Well, I am glad to have discovered Romantically Apocalyptic through this (I found the time to read through it today).

Same here. I also don't get people getting upset with Thunt. I wasn't even aware of the vote thing and only checked it because Thunt talked about it. I probably would have not found out about RA if it Goblins hadn't make it until that round.

I voted for OOTS on this round, though it seems Goblins will win the round.

[Smolder]

Well, the fact that we went from ahead by 10 to behind by 1000 reflects which comic is encouraging its fans to vote.

Not that it matters, since it's only a beauty contest designed to attract page hits to a website that leeches off the popularity of the webcomics it pretends to be promoting.

Sour grapes? Maybe a little. But I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to set up a web contest than to actually run a decent webcomic.

Honestly, it would be almost embarassing to win a comic contest in which Penny Arcade got eliminated so early. Apparently, this contest was beneath the notice of their legions of fans.

[DarioD]

I read and like both comics, but OotS is better in so many ways it's not even worth starting about it...

Anyway, I think it makes perfect sense for the Giant not to ask people to vote. It's only a small beauty contest, and we just showed our support through the Kickstarter thing. Plus, I guess it would be difficult for the Giant to do something like Thunt did (offering rewards for each round won) without having to weight it against the Kickstarter offers.

Anyway, the site seems to be down now, but as soon as it's back online I'll cast my vote for OotS.

[the humanity]

I like OotS a little better but I voted Goblins- Rich doesn't want to win and Thunt does. who cares why?

[suzaliscious]

Yeah, I like that Thunt seems to have realized that his posts may have not had the effect he intended - i.e., sound like he's buying votes instead of being a light-hearted sport.

Doesn't change the fact that I love OotS - and for that matter LFG - a hell of a lot better. Goblins shouldn't have made it past the LFG round IMO, but that's purely personal preference.

Anyway, it was nice being in the running this long, gents. Vote for Gunnerkrigg next round - enough of MSPA's fanbase seems to be listening to Hussie to support GK :) It's currently in the lead by a slim margin it might be able to hold on to.

[Madara]

I feel like goblins has a unique pattern. Little lost in the beginning, grew really strong and unconventional(A LOT of really good moments), and then lost its footing. Now, the comic is climbing its way back up. Still, now would be a nice time for a new comic to come out Mr.Thunt :smallsmile:

[mightycleric]

From the Facebook comments part of the tourney site:


I look up to Rich Burlew for so many reasons. His comic deserves this win and if Goblins beats him, it's really only because Rich didn't scream at his fans for votes like I did

That is a really cool comment from about 22 hours ago (I'm not sure how I missed it before now). I think that was a really classy thing to say by him, and it speaks to his character quite a bit. If OOTS is going to lose this round (though I'm still hoping we somehow snag enough votes to win), then at least we are losing to a class act.


Edit: According to the votes that displayed just after when the voting was supposed to end at midnight ET (during one of the brief times the site wasn't down around then), GC beat MSPA by 6 votes, and Goblins beat us by over 1100. I wonder if, when it is said and done, MSPA or GC will be declared the winner, but based on the time and the votes displayed, it should be GC.

[Killer Angel]

Edit: According to the votes that displayed just after when the voting was supposed to end at midnight ET (during one of the brief times the site wasn't down around then), GC beat MSPA by 6 votes, and Goblins beat us by over 1100. I wonder if, when it is said and done, MSPA or GC will be declared the winner, but based on the time and the votes displayed, it should be GC.

Yep, it's official: Goblins won this one.

[B. Dandelion]

To see what the final round has degenerated into (according to some of the folk on the Goblins board, the worst of the drama has spilled over to 4chan), I find myself feeling relieved OOTS got knocked out in the semifinals. I was having fun at first, but no way is it worth some of the sheer nastiness some people have managed to drum up, and ComicMix apparently can't -- or won't -- do anything to stop it from happening on their own board.

If they haven't severely changed their posting or moderation polices by then, next year I think we should steer clear entirely. Not because other big-shot comics need the exposure, but because no comic needs that kind of exposure.

[DarioD]

To see what the final round has degenerated into (according to some of the folk on the Goblins board, the worst of the drama has spilled over to 4chan), I find myself feeling relieved OOTS got knocked out in the semifinals. I was having fun at first, but no way is it worth some of the sheer nastiness some people have managed to drum up, and ComicMix apparently can't -- or won't -- do anything to stop it from happening on their own board.

If they haven't severely changed their posting or moderation polices by then, next year I think we should steer clear entirely. Not because other big-shot comics need the exposure, but because no comic needs that kind of exposure.

I couldn't agree more, I would have never expected such a level of nastiness. OotS definitely doesn't need that. :yuk:

[50Copper]

It's the internet. And honestly, I prefer that sort of real authenticity over the fake niceties expressed here solely to avoid the banhammer.

[Mordokai]

It's the internet. And honestly, I prefer that sort of real authenticity over the fake niceties expressed here solely to avoid the banhammer.

There is some truth in that as well.

C'mon people, it's internet. A solid backbone is prerequisite for just going onto it and I believe Rich and OOTS as whole have grown that a long time ago. Saying things like "OOTS doesn't need that"... it sounds just a bit... weird in my ears.

[Math_Mage]

It's the internet. And honestly, I prefer that sort of real authenticity over the fake niceties expressed here solely to avoid the banhammer.

Really? Let's take an example. Do you think the manufactured outrage and vitriol produced on that website in the final contest between two really great webcomics were more 'authentic' than the comments made here? Please don't mistake high-volume rage for authenticity, or civil discourse for disingenuous self-censorship.

I agree that OotS should not shy away from outside exposure just because it's the internet, but...well, remember the ****storm that brewed over Penny Arcade's dickwolves comic between "OMG HE JOKED ABOUT RAEP" people and "OMG FREE SPEECH RAPE RAPE RAPE WHAT YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT" people; despite that it should have been obvious that the horror of rape and slavery were being used to illustrate how divorced the "do 5 good things for X" fetch quests in MMORPGs can be from their supposed narrative justification, neither 'side' was willing to look at the whole picture. Goblins apparently had its own "OMG RAPE JOKE" storm brewing in the final. That's the sort of utterly pointless controversy that can take over an unmoderated chat, and the sort of negative publicity we all can do without.

[B. Dandelion]

That was really well said, Math_Mage, thank you.

This is actually the strictest board I regularly post to, and I wouldn't mind at all if it were less so. It's not that ComicMix allowed people to say mean things about comics, and that was terrible and I hated it because people should say something nice or not say anything at all. It's that they couldn't check the crazy proliferation of outright lies that spawned on their own boards, as a result of their own contest. All the nastiness thereafter was a complete sideshow utterly unconnected to the real merits or deficits of the comics in question -- deeply personal attacks, outright threats, and brazenly admitted trolling. I would say that sort of BS is the definitional opposite of "authenticity".

[Sith_Happens]

It's the internet. And honestly, I prefer that sort of real authenticity over the fake niceties expressed here solely to avoid the banhammer.

I actually rather like the fact that there exists a forum I can visit at no risk to my faith in humanity.:smalltongue:

[DarioD]

Thanks Math_Mage.

Mordokai: apart from our personal tastes (I personally found the whole exchange of vitriolic personal attacks in the final round quite disgusting), I think neither OotS nor any other good comic would ever need that kind of "exposure". I do not believe the extra visibility that Goblins gained by being in the final was worth the kind of personal attacks its author was exposed to; unfortunately, the accusations thrown at Mr Hunt will stay visible on the Internet for quite a while, and they are likely to put off people from his comic. I also expect several Goblins fans will be less likely to read Gunnerkrigg Court as a result of this whole fiasco. Overall, I think both comics lost more than they gained from being in the final and being dragged in such a disgraceful fight.

50copper: personally, I prefer it when disagreement is expressed with a reasonable amount of civility, be it on the internet or in real life.

[Euodiachloris]

50copper: personally, I prefer it when disagreement is expressed with a reasonable amount of civility, be it on the internet or in real life.

Here-here! :smallbiggrin:

It's taken me this long to get back to this thread, mainly because... well... All that guff. I got rather sick of it.

Thank goodness for GitP forums being normal. :smallsmile: