Were the Draketooth's doing anything about the other Gates?

[FujinAkari]

We know that the Draketooth's were monitoring that three of the five gates had failed, but we haven't uncovered anything which would indicate that any of them are actually acting on that knowledge.

What do you think they were doing about the situation, if anything? If nothing, is it possible that the whole Familicide angle is a huge misdirection and something -else- killed the Draketooths before any of the gates were destroyed, which is why everything seems to be "business as normal" within the Ziggarat?

[MyNameIsSecret]

Girard and all the other Scribble members swore an oath to never directly interfere with the other Gates, and I'd hardly think Girard would be the one to break his oath and go and help or check on the other Gates. The Draketooths probably just strengthened their defences, and maybe sent out people to find out who was destroying the Gates. They might have found information, they might have not, but it didn't protect them from the Familicide.

I also highly doubt that the Familicide thing is a 'misdirection', and they were killed by something else. It would be a big disappointment, considering how much character development V is going through.

[Jasdoif]

We know that the Draketooth's were monitoring that three of the five gates had failed, but we haven't uncovered anything which would indicate that any of them are actually acting on that knowledge.

What do you think they were doing about the situation, if anything?Were I to guess...they probably took the fall of the gates as a cue to intensify the protections on their own gate. The sign that a gate has failed means it's too late to intervene for that particular gate. Plus, if the few dozen people we've seen were the extent of personnel, they may have been unwilling to risk sending anyone off to check on other gates.


If nothing, is it possible that the whole Familicide angle is a huge misdirection and something -else- killed the Draketooths before any of the gates were destroyed, which is why everything seems to be "business as normal" within the Ziggarat?This seems extremely unlikely. Lirian's gate was destroyed years ago; the mealroom scene should've been a lot different if everyone was killed that long ago. If nothing else, the food should've been far more decayed.

[FujinAkari]

Were I to guess...they probably took the fall of the gates as a cue to intensify the protections on their own gate. The sign that a gate has failed means it's too late to intervene for that particular gate. Plus, if the few dozen people we've seen were the extent of personnel, they may have been unwilling to risk sending anyone off to check on other gates.

Eh, maybe. But both Durokan and the SG were very much acting against the coming threat and spending resources learning about it and actively fighting it... just seems odd that, from what we've seen, the Draketooths were ostriching the problem.


This seems extremely unlikely. Lirian's gate was destroyed years ago; the mealroom scene should've been a lot different if everyone was killed that long ago. If nothing else, the food should've been far more decayed.

Yeah, I doubt it too... I'm just not sure why there hasn't been any indication or attempts of communication. I know that the Draketooths wouldn't touch Shojo or the SG with a 12 foot phantasm, but the OOTSters were very obviously involved with Durokan's gate and easily scryable, so I would think there would be something by now. *shrug*

Then again, maybe when they get deeper into the ziggarat they'll come across Orrin's notes or something that will explain this :)

[Jasdoif]

Eh, maybe. But both Durokan and the SG were very much acting against the coming threat and spending resources learning about it and actively fighting it... just seems odd that, from what we've seen, the Draketooths were ostriching the problem.To be fair, dealing with things directly isn't exactly standard procedure for illusionists. The Draketooths would have more faith in their ability to keep anyone from finding the gate in the first place.


Yeah, I doubt it too... I'm just not sure why there hasn't been any indication or attempts of communication. I know that the Draketooths wouldn't touch Shojo or the SG with a 12 foot phantasm, but the OOTSters were very obviously involved with Durokan's gate and easily scryable, so I would think there would be something by now. *shrug*I don't see why they would contact the Order, though. If the Sapphire Guard's diviners could determine that the OOTS destroyed the gate (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0203.html), I'm pretty sure the Draketooths could determine it as well. There would be little advantage to contacting the gate's destroyers.

[Math_Mage]

The Draketooths' reaction to the other gates falling would be to become even MORE elusive, secretive, and isolated. Interacting in any way with the remaining Gates and their guardians would be out of the question.

[Bastian Weaver]

They were killed on the day of Roy's resurrection. Three gates were already gone by that moment.

[Ron Miel]

Girard and all the other Scribble members swore an oath to never directly interfere with the other Gates, and I'd hardly think Girard would be the one to break his oath and go and help or check on the other Gates.

But we already know he did. We know he has been in contact with Serini which breaks the conditions of the oath.

[thepsyker]

How do we know they weren't taking actions before they all snuffed it? Just because they were killed during lunch doesn't mean they weren't working on other things we just haven't seen yet.

[factotum]

I think it's impossible to tell what they're doing about it. Lirian's gate fell years before the story opened, so we wouldn't have seen what they did about that one, and if they sent anyone to look at the wreck of Dorukan's Gate he would have arrived long after the Order had departed for Azure City--such is the peril of being so far away from the other locations!

[Mr. Pants]

We know that the Draketooth's were monitoring that three of the five gates had failed, but we haven't uncovered anything which would indicate that any of them are actually acting on that knowledge.

What do you think they were doing about the situation, if anything? If nothing, is it possible that the whole Familicide angle is a huge misdirection and something -else- killed the Draketooths before any of the gates were destroyed, which is why everything seems to be "business as normal" within the Ziggarat?

Girard Draketooth promised not to interfere with the other gates...

[FujinAkari]

Girard Draketooth promised not to interfere with the other gates...

Girard Draketooth also promised not to talk to the other members, which we know he violated. What is your point?

[Steward]

Would he interpret that to mean that he couldn't visit the destruction site of one of the others? Or, failing that, couldn't one of the more zealous members of his clan have decided to check things out on their own? If any of them are Chaotic-aligned, they might not have felt bound to adhere to the strictest interpretation of an oath that someone else took decades ago if they thought the universe was at stake.

[FujinAkari]

Would he interpret that to mean that he couldn't visit the destruction site of one of the others? Or, failing that, couldn't one of the more zealous members of his clan have decided to check things out on their own? If any of them are Chaotic-aligned, they might not have felt bound to adhere to the strictest interpretation of an oath that someone else took decades ago if they thought the universe was at stake.

Yeah, I don't buy the oath explanation for a second. We know Soon was the only member of the Scribblenaughts who actually abided by it (Girard stayed in communication with Sereni, and Lirian and Durokan stayed in contact) and even the SG didn't feel the oath prohibitied investigation once a gate fell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0290.html)

There is no way Girard or Orrin or whomever would refuse to investigate, though they may have done it via scries or whatever.

[Winter Light]

Girard Draketooth also promised not to talk to the other members, which we know he violated. What is your point?

Er, sorry--he did? I may have missed it, could you point me in the general direction of where that was established?

I know Dorukan did (his affair with Lirian), but I thought Girard kept up his end of the oath.

[Dr.Epic]

Honestly if they did it would be a little hypocritical.

[Tebryn]

Eh, maybe. But both Durokan and the SG were very much acting against the coming threat and spending resources learning about it and actively fighting it... just seems odd that, from what we've seen, the Draketooths were ostriching the problem.

What exactly did Durokan do other than sit at his gate and wait for Xykon to come for him? He didn't hunt the killer down which was well within his power to do considering he was an epic level mage. What did the Sapphire Guard do other than grab the adventuring party semi-responsible for the gate being tampered with and ask them nicely to go check on the others? They didn't bolster any defense on their own Gate. We had a whole arc to show that they didn't considering they were caught unprepared for the attack and ya know...lost.

We're seeing exactly what the other gate watchers have done with the Draketooth family. The only difference here is that they're all dead and can't go into detail about what they were doing in that time. Their gate was probably the best defended we've seen what with the illusions and such. Perhaps they felt they'd done all they could do within their power and were chilling out at the homestead until the danger passed or moved to another gate.

[FujinAkari]

Er, sorry--he did? I may have missed it, could you point me in the general direction of where that was established?

Well, I'm not sure how Girard and Sereni plan to settle their bet (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0695.html) without talking to eachother. Plus the language used in that strip seems to indicate that they haven't really stopped talking.


What exactly did Durokan do other than sit at his gate and wait for Xykon to come for him?

SOD Spoiler
Although not shown, Durokan does know -exactly- who Xykon is and even says he refused to come out of his dungeon until the precise moment Xykon revealed what had happened to Lirian's soul, indicating he had investigated what happened to her gate, knew she could not be resurrected, and knew who had killed her. So yeah, it certainly looks like he had done quite a bit of investigation. As for hunt him down, Eugene spent his LIFE trying to do that, so it is probably Xykon has crazy-good anti-scrying magic protecting him.


What did the Sapphire Guard do other than grab the adventuring party semi-responsible for the gate being tampered with and ask them nicely to go check on the others? They didn't bolster any defense on their own Gate. We had a whole arc to show that they didn't considering they were caught unprepared for the attack and ya know...lost.

Well yeah... thats the whole point. Shojo was actively trying to coordinate gate-defense and utilize the resources of the remaining gates. He didn't bolster the gate defense because he had an entire NATION defending the gate against a destroyed lich, so he likely didn't consider it necessary. But the point is he was still doing -something-.

[Tebryn]

SOD Spoiler
Although not shown, Durokan does know -exactly- who Xykon is and even says he refused to come out of his dungeon until the precise moment Xykon revealed what had happened to Lirian's soul, indicating he had investigated what happened to her gate, knew she could not be resurrected, and knew who had killed her. So yeah, it certainly looks like he had done quite a bit of investigation. As for hunt him down, Eugene spent his LIFE trying to do that, so it is probably Xykon has crazy-good anti-scrying magic protecting him.

Yes I am aware of all that. Thing is, Durokan is an Epic Level character while Eugene isn't. The tools afforded to him are much better than those that Eugene can grab ahold of. In fact, we've been shown that it's possible to pierce anti-scry magic...ya know, the sort of thing Durokan seemed really good at making ala Cloiser with Epic Magic as well. The argument holds no water. Xykon camped out for a year to get Durokan to come out. A year gives you a lot of time to scry and learn about things and it's not exactly said when he figured it all out. Clearly to late to stop or we wouldn't be where we are. Because I know if I were an Epic Level Mage and my lay had just been killed, her soul sealed away in a black gem and the murderer was gunning for -me- or former friends I'd have taken some time in the passing years to research a spell to pick apart any scry spell and show up prepared to fight a Lich, his non-epic cohorts and anything else they could throw at me. Especially with an Int Score of 20+ which I'd have to have, granting me the intelligence to put together said plan. That isn't how it went down however now is it?


Well yeah... thats the whole point. Shojo was actively trying to coordinate gate-defense and utilize the resources of the remaining gates. He didn't bolster the gate defense because he had an entire NATION defending the gate against a destroyed lich, so he likely didn't consider it necessary. But the point is he was still doing -something-.

Right...but my point was that they had no idea what was coming. If it hadn't been for Eugene they'd not have known about Xykon at all and lets be honest here. That was a rare event, a Ghost connected to one of the Adventurers being at the right place at the right time to hijack a summoning that would have instead got an arbiter of pure Law who would have convicted the Order of the Stick and that would have been the end of everything story wise. They'd not have known about the army if it were not for Miko. The end result here is....they had no idea about what was going on outside "Adventurers did it" without outside interference. So what they had a whole nation guarding the Gate? That was Soon's idea all along. That wasn't some special event Shojo got together all by himself. Outside of a scry spell they don't seem to have done much to really check on things.


They really haven't done anything to guard the gates. That's the whole point though. The Order of the Stick are the ones breaking up the Status Quo that was laid down by the Order of the Scribble. The Order of the Stick are the ones going out on a limb to take down Xykon. Shojo was going to uphold the oath and was perfectly happy to send Roy off to the -other- gates without considering his own was in any danger.

The Draketooths had a whole family of presumably sorcerers (we can't be certain) and a ton of illusions hiding the place. How is that any less than what Shojo did? Sit around and think that his city was enough defense of a Gate. How was it any different than Durokan sitting in his dungeon for a year or years and waiting the Lich out until the last possible moment unprepared to fight a foe (because he got totally demolished) he presumably already knew about? There is no difference. The moral here is that sometimes the way things are need to change because the threats against them have changed already and the old ways aren't good enough anymore.

[FujinAkari]

Yes I am aware of all that. Thing is, Durokan is an Epic Level character while Eugene isn't. The tools afforded to him are much better than those that Eugene can grab ahold of. In fact, we've been shown that it's possible to pierce anti-scry magic...ya know, the sort of thing Durokan seemed really good at making ala Cloiser with Epic Magic as well.

Well sure... if you're Darth V and are a level 70-something caster. Durokan wasn't. Durokan was a level 2? caster, while Xykon has been estimated to be 27+. There is no reason to think Durokan would have a significantly better chance than Eugene unless he was similar to Xykon in power level, which he likely wasn't.


Right...but my point was that they had no idea what was coming. If it hadn't been for Eugene they'd not have known about Xykon at all and lets be honest here. That was a rare event, a Ghost connected to one of the Adventurers being at the right place at the right time to hijack a summoning that would have instead got an arbiter of pure Law who would have convicted the Order of the Stick and that would have been the end of everything story wise.

Uh... about as rare as the mailman happening to deliver a letter with my name on it to me. Eugene specifically came to Shojo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html), there was no chance to it. The only half-convenient thing was that they summoned the celestial -right then- but, hell, they summon one -every- trial, so the summons go up like clockwork.


They'd not have known about the army if it were not for Miko.

Wrong again. Xykon intentionally allowed her to escape (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0376.html) so the warning was coming Miko or no Miko, if she hadn't been present then another guard would have been allowed to live.


Plus, you totally seem to be missing the point. This isn't a critique of what all Shojo and Durokan did or a question of whether they could have done more, its a question of... *looks at the thread title*... Were the Draketooth's doing anything about the other Gates?

[factotum]

Re: Dorukan: he didn't leave his dungeon to look for Xykon for one very simple reason; it would have left his Gate unguarded! He was pretty much alone in there, don't forget, unlike the other Gate guardians who all had other people to help out.

[Steward]

That's a good point. Still, couldn't he have conjured up an agent -- either with 'gate' or 'greater planar binding', to check things out? If only to make sure that he knows Xykon is coming long before he arrives.