[d20] So which fantasy d20 game does the best job at fixing the typical 3.x problems?

[Particle_Man]

I love 3.x games but know that there are some problems with the game too. I also know that there are a lot of d20 variants out there.

Which ones, in your opinion, do the best job at fixing the problems that typically come up with 3.x games?

You can also say what they fix and what they don't fix.

[Flickerdart]

This one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231615) :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Protagonest]

This one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231615) :smallbiggrin:

Yep. But it's not perfect. It's rules-heavy but is simple and abstract in certain areas (flight, I'm looking at you), two things that don't really work together.

[Gavinfoxx]

I like Legend. Can't wait for the version 1.0 to be released!

[Flickerdart]

Perfect? No. Though my own problems with the system have nothing to do with missing having to do trigonometry every round before moving.

[Draz74]

Yep, until I finish my own system, I'll vote for Legend as the best overall D&D-"fix."

Old School Hack is a lot of fun for reminiscing over old-school low-level gritty campaigns, though.

[Arbane]

I love 3.x games but know that there are some problems with the game too. I also know that there are a lot of d20 variants out there.

Which ones, in your opinion, do the best job at fixing the problems that typically come up with 3.x games?

For me? Maybe Mutants and Masterminds.

No, I'm not joking. It's a d20-based system, and it manages to avoid a large chunk of D&D's balance problems by being COMPLETELY point-buy for abilities. And since it's a superhero game by default if can handle all sorts of lunatic character ideas ranging from "Big Guy with Sword" to "Pixie Pyromancer" to "Starship crewed by microbe-sized aliens".

[Flickerdart]

For me? Maybe Mutants and Masterminds.

No, I'm not joking. It's a d20-based system, and it manages to avoid a large chunk of D&D's balance problems by being COMPLETELY point-buy for abilities. And since it's a superhero game by default if can handle all sorts of lunatic character ideas ranging from "Big Guy with Sword" to "Pixie Pyromancer" to "Starship crewed by microbe-sized aliens".
Um, what? M&M is easier to break than a matchstick. It's only "balanced" in the sense that you don't need to pick a class before doing so.

[Arbane]

Um, what? M&M is easier to break than a matchstick. It's only "balanced" in the sense that you don't need to pick a class before doing so.


Right, I should have mentioned that - like any point-buy, build-your-own powers game, it depends a LOT on a GM willing to say that no, a starting character can't have the power to destroy the world in one round.

But it doesn't have the Tier Problem D&D has, where the Fighter is BMX Bandit and the Wizard is Angel Summoner, but the rules insist on pretending they're somehow even anyway.

[Particle_Man]

Well, actually, if you build "BMX Bandit" and "Angel Summoner" in M&M rules, I think you have the same problem. The first might go for skills and the like, I guess?

I think M&M solves the issue by saying the "summoning hordes" is more of a "villain" thing and shouldn't be done by PCs because it is unbalancing. Maybe they watched the same youtube video. :)

[Rhaegar14]

Right, I should have mentioned that - like any point-buy, build-your-own powers game, it depends a LOT on a GM willing to say that no, a starting character can't have the power to destroy the world in one round.

But it doesn't have the Tier Problem D&D has, where the Fighter is BMX Bandit and the Wizard is Angel Summoner, but the rules insist on pretending they're somehow even anyway.

Well, by that logic, D&D 3.5 is balanced for anyone who knows the system well enough too; DMs just have to be willing to limit their players to one or two tiers, and if the target tier can't handle their character concept, be willing to help them work something out.

[Dark Tira]

Yep. But it's not perfect. It's rules-heavy but is simple and abstract in certain areas (flight, I'm looking at you), two things that don't really work together.

Rules-heavy? Not for a D20 system. The problems it has come from it being too rules-light, which will hopefully be fixed in the next revision.

Aside from Legend, I'd also put forward Fantasycraft as a pretty decently fixed D20 system. Although it really sucks trying to get through the first 2 mage levels.

[Calimehter]

I dunno if it qualifies as a seperate d20 game per the OP, but I would vote for E6, especially if you adopt the designer's implied limits on access to 4th+ spells (i.e. don't).

Your epic charactes will be a lot more like Aragorn than Akira, which isn't for everyone's taste in a 3.5 fix, but it solves many of the 'typical' 3.5 problems w/o a lot of extra work and rules to learn.

[Alienist]

Thieve's World looks interesting.

Skills matter, because magic is fixed/neutered
Sneak attack matters, because your death threshold is your Con score instead of 50 (and because magic is fixed/neutered)

There's a bunch of different classes.

Basically, because magic is fixed/neutered, what it boils down to is that if you want a d20 version where Thieves can actually go up against Wizards and win, then Thieves World is your system.

[Particle_Man]

So Thieve's World and Fantasy Craft downgrade the magic-user types, and Legend upgrades the non-magic-user types?

[JVWest]

I know this is an old thread but this has been on my mind. Anyone played Dungeon Crawl Classics? To me, it's core system is the very essentials of 3.5 that I actually use. Plus it simplifies all the classes into a single XP table and bases XP on surviving encounters rather than killing things and taking stuff.

It also has a lot of cool extras added on, such as spell corruption, Mighty Deeds, etc. And it is based heavily on old D&D (race-as-class).

Another game I really love is Basic Fantasy Role Playing. I think that game is rock solid. And it's SOOO easy to use and to mod. However, it also uses the old school saving throw tables and a lot of other old version characteristics that I'd sooner not use.

My question is this: is there a game that uses the 3x rules changes ala DCC but is simple, meat-and-potatoes like BFRPG? A generic fantasy RPG using ascending AC, 3 saves (or something like it), Difficulty Classes for simply doing things, and so forth?

If not, I might have to just write one. It's how I play anyway.