Help My Party Survive 2 Angry Red Dragons!

[Swiftest]

Greetings Playground!

I've got a party of four 4th level PC's who are in quite a **** pickle. We are in a world where dragons haven't been seen in thousands of years. They're a fairy tale, an ancient myth, rude scribblings of mad prophets on ancient cave walls. Suddenly when randomly adventuring on another quest in an old forest we come upon a medium blue dragon. We're shocked! Our sorcerer rolls high enough on knowledge arcana to recognize the beast and, after slaying it in a terrifically hard fight, we decide we absolutely MUST investigate further for the good of civilization (and our own reckless greed).

Our search (several high 30's survival checks and some random luck) leads us to an isolated mountain with a deep yet fairly narrow cave complex. We creep in, stealthed to the max, terrified (the juvenile blue already killed one of us last fight). We take out some trolls quickly and easily. When we get into the final chamber in the cave we see a sleeping *huge* size red dragon sprawled atop a 20 foot high mound of platinum and gold and guarding an egg, with several hatched eggs nearby. We immediately understand that to wake this dragon is to die. We immediately flee as quickly and quietly as we can back to the outside world to report this earth shattering (for our homebrewed world) news.

Upon reaching daylight once again we see two red specks approaching swiftly in the distance. Two more red dragons returning to the nest! With no time to run we hide in the only place we can find quickly -- a tiny 30 foot indentation in the rock just a few hundred feet above the major cave complex. We think we're safe when we realize the dragons have found the dead troll guards we forgot about and left in the open back in their cave. The dragons begin to search for us. The large one goes to search the forest floor around the mountain while the medium one comes up after us to search the mountain (DM rolled which would go which way randomly right in front of us).

The medium one spots one of us in the tiny cave almost immediately despite our attempts to hide and flies closer to investigate. My druid has his newfound ape animal companion jump and grapple it and we manage to quickly subdue the young dragon before it can escape and warn the other(s). The large one doesn't notice anything, but we know before long it will notice the other dragon is missing and come looking ... and it's currently circling over the only path down the mountain. We've tied up the young dragon and subdued it into next year.

We have a druid 4 (summoner mostly), ape companion, an evoker sorcerer, a sword/board pally, and a cleric. Party is core only. We know almost for sure that we would lose fighting a large dragon -- the medium blue we fought earlier damn near annihilated us abusing range and did in fact kill our last cleric before we took it down. The large dragon is certain to find us eventually and if the huge one comes we're absolutely done. I've got us hidden with some hastily set up camouflage for now but the dragon is sure to see through it. The DM is more than willing to kill us all for our daring, he isn't one to pull punches. We at least have a young dragon to use as a hostage ... but I don't hold much hope of that working ... evil dragons and all. What the hell do we do now? I need ideas! We're like 1200 xp from 5th and 3rd level spells ....


TL:DR - Captured young dragon, big dragon searching for us that we probably can't win against, almost certainly will find us and we're stuck on top of a mountain with no way down except right past the large red dragon who knows we're somewhere nearby and is actively searching -- how do we escape?? Core only party.

[u-b]

Hmm... I hope you killed all the trolls, otherwise they would track you by scent in no time. Depending on amount of See Invisible and/or Detect Magic the dragons have and marks you left subduing the one you captures, you might try to hide inside a Rope Trick, preferably not in the open, refreshing your spells for escape when they go looking over some other place, but other than that...

upd: At level 4 that would require re-casting Rope Trick, unless Extended, to regain any spells... not good.

[Swiftest]

Yes, we killed all those trolls and burned them with tasty fire. Over and over.

Regarding Rope Trick -- hmm that's an excellent idea. Our sorcerer doesn't have the spell, however. I could cast tree shape but even that would last at best 4 hours and would be a me-only escape tactic most likely. I'm seriously considering it now though as I really can't see any way of all of us living.

I know this is entirely up to DM fiat but given what you know about dragons in general do you think they will respect the threat to their young one (dragon young are precious, yes?) or will they simply tell us to do our worst to it and murder us out of hand? I'm not sure if threatening the hostage is wise or not and we're probably only going to get at best one shot to bargain with them, if that.

[Acanous]

Have you gotten XP from the dragon you already subdued? If no, coup de grace while he's grappled, using the option to cover his mouth (so he can't scream) for the tasty XP. If it's enough to push you to 5th, the sorceror can TAKE Rope Trick and you guys can hide out.
If you already got XP from this dragon, what sorts of items do you have on you?

[u-b]

Well, since red dragons have immunity to fire, smarts of "enough" and aerial move or "a lot" they might, both, in concert, start with either charging from 600 feet above or diving from a bit lower to fry the whole area and then see if there are any survivors capable of killing anything. I suppose, once you are at voice communications distance, it might be too late to deliver coup de grace, but if that hostage is stable well in negatives... with a ready blow this might work.

upd: XP is awarded for defeating opposition, so once that dragon is subdued, GM owes all the XP for him, killing will not get any more. The exact procedure of actually awarding that XP is another matter... but of course, you'll want to ask DM to have it right away.

[Swiftest]

Yeah our current XP status is taken into account the defeated red dragon, I believe. Good thought though haha. Item-wise we have little:

Potion of Eagle Splender
Potion of Barkskin
Potion of Cure Light Wounds
Potion of Endure Elements
Scrolls (Detect Secret Doors, Mount, Cure Light Wounds)
Wand of Magic Missile level 1 40 charges

Scrolls (Eagle Splender, Owl's Wisdom, Cure Light Wounds -- ARCANE/Useless, Endure Elements)

A few hundred gold. Gauntlets of Ogre Power.

Some thunder stones and alchemist fires (we're out of damn tanglefoot bags sadly). Sundry masterwork ranged and melee weapons. Our paladin has magic full plate and a magic greatsword we recently found. As the party druid I've got crap of note but an Amulet of Mighty Fists (lucky roll on the random loot table) currently being wielded by my ape....

We've used damn near all our healing getting to this point, but our Sorcerer still has most spell uses left (spells are Sleep, Ray of Enfeeblement, Mage Armor, Scorching Ray) and I've got some of mine (CLW x 1, Entangle, Shillelagh, Flame Blade (aka a hippogriff waiting to happen), Resist Energy x 2). Cleric has some of his left (Divine Power x 2, Enlarge Person, Sound Burst, Spiritual Weapon). Paladin has CLW x 1.

Regarding helpers our Sorcerer has a tricked out riding dog and I have my ape in breastplate barding....

[Circle of Life]

Summon a Dire Badger or three, dig some tunnels, collapse the entrances after poking some air holes, then pray for a miracle.

If that doesn't work, you're probably screwed.

[Swiftest]

I am thinking our best bet might be to hope to make it to morning, pray for new spells, and then maybe I can use multiple casting of Soften Earth and Stone to try to cause a rockslide or perhaps cause a cave in and trap/kill the dragon. I'm mainly worried about the large one right now because if the huge one gets involved nothing we try will matter.

edit: Good call on the badgers! I actually forgot to mention that we used 1 of my castings of Summon Nature's Ally 2 for 3 badgers which I had dig a shallow pit that I covered with dark blankets and leaves/branches which we are currently hiding in -- part of the 'poor camouflage' I mentioned earlier. Best I could come up with. I really want to survive.

The sad thing is I think if we were 5 we might actually have a decent chance of beating the large red dragon -- it's metagaming to guess but I'm putting it at not much more than a CR 8-9, and we're pretty clever tactically.

[oball]

Kill and gut the young dragon, climb inside its skin, and hope you roll high on your Bluff check.

[Doorhandle]

TL:DR - Captured young dragon, big dragon searching for us that we probably can't win against, almost certainly will find us and we're stuck on top of a mountain with no way down except right past the large red dragon who knows we're somewhere nearby and is actively searching -- how do we escape?? Core only party.

Wrod to the wise: If you can't even survive ONE breath weapon fro a dragon, you shouldn't be taking it's chicks hostage. If the whelp is immume to fire, which, as a red dragon it is, there is nothing stopping it's mother from just using a breath-weaspon and melting you all.

Try swearing supplication to the dragon?

[Swiftest]

Some of us at the very least would probably survive the breath weapon from the large one unless it rolled max or we rolled terribly on saves. I would actually bet on all of us surviving one blast with the two resist energies I have prepared (provided I have advanced warning to cast them).

The huge one doesn't bear contemplating, obviously haha. I hope it's in hibernation or that the large one is too proud to bother it or something. Your point is well taken in that case.

Yeah supplication is definitely something we'll consider very carefully. Our paladin would probably feel forced to take issue with this but eh ....

[Lysander]

What about creating a distraction so you can run down the path while the dragon is occupied?

Summon a hippogriff and send it flying off in a random direction to lead the big dragon away long enough for you to sneak away? Or some other creature that can survive longer?

Or, maybe one of you can ride the little captured dragon at knife point. And while the big dragon chases its friend and your doomed self-sacrificing party member (cough paladin cough), the rest of you run away.

Alternatively, could you try exploring the cave system more? Maybe there's a secret passage you haven't found yet. Or some kind of magical dragon killing macguffin.

And if survival seems truly impossible, you might want to consider sending an animal messenger to warn civilization of the dragon threat. Lose the battle, win the war, and all that.

[Xiander]

And if survival seems truly impossible, you might want to consider sending an animal messenger to warn civilization of the dragon threat. Lose the battle, win the war, and all that.

Actually, sending an animal messenger seems like the first thing you should do. Call in the cavalry. Even if it is a small hope, it might give you the option of hiding until someone shows up and helps you out.


Another interesting option, is trying to reason with the young one. You have spared it's life for now, and you might be able to convince it to talk dow the older dragon. I don't think it will be easy, but it might pay of.

[Chookster]

Give your ape ever buff you can, and the thunderstone.

Get him to run like hell and if he gets the chance to smash the thunderstone in the dragons face.

Run in the opposite direction.

The only other thing i can think to do is the previously mentioned swearing supplication to the dragon, its not like they actually like blues.

[The Glyphstone]

Offer them the halfling as tribute to let you leave.

If you don't have a halfling, get one, then offer them as tribute.

[Acanous]

yeah, that's a rock and a hard place all right. Blow the resist energies on your ape and the Paladin. Give the Paladin the potion of Eagle's Splendor. Cast Mount, get the Pally to ride it. Have him and the ape them go opposite directions, moving and holding standard to thunderstone the dragon if it gets close enough. Abuse the Surprise Round rules (If there are combattants your enemy is unaware of, those combattants are entitled to a surprise round upon entering combat) and use your surprise round to flee. You immediately make initiative checks therafter, which effectively gives you 3 move actions in the first round.

I want to say you should do something with that wand of Magic Missile, as it could drop that dragon if you could somehow keep it in range without it being able to attack you, but it'd be hard to pull off.
If the Paladin's shield is a Tower Shield, ensure he's using it for Cover, it grants Evasion.

[Isomenes]

This is an excellent opportunity to launch a huge story arc. I second the diplomacy route.

Oi, what a pickle. This is the best sort of fun though :)

[Telonius]

Step 1:
Hope your bluff check is high and that Red and Blue are not friends.
"I'm so sorry. There was a Blue dragon that made us do it. He caught us by surprise and threatened to eat us all if we didn't attack your youngling. I think he wants to muscle in on your rightful territory. We've technically fulfilled our end of the deal. If you would show some mercy, it's just possible that we might be able to regroup and wreak vengeance on him."

Step 2:
Walk back to sight of Blue Dragon massacre, and wait a bit. Then, bring its head back to Red Mama.

Step 3:
????

Step 4:
Profit!

[Swiftest]

Hmm the animal messenger idea is a great one. We will do that for sure if we have the chance. There *are* people that could potentially help us within 1-2 days hard travel.

I don't think running from the dragon will work at all if it spots any of us. It's going to be fast enough (and we are far enough from help) that it would easily be able to hunt us all down individually even if we split up into 4 (or 5 counting my ape) groups. I doubt even one of us would get far enough to even be out of sight before it came for us considering the forest doesn't offer total cover/concealment (just sparse trees on the low mountain slopes) and the dense lifesaving forest doesn't start for at least a half mile. Maybe if we use our scroll of mount to give one guy a fast head start he might get away into the cover of the trees ... but I wouldn't bet on it as the dragon isn't stupid and would certainly try to go for him first.

I think we need to either bargain with it, disable it and run, or straight up kill it. I like the bluff idea to blame the blue dragon, perhaps we'll try that. We may also try waking up the young one and reasoning with it.

[Lysander]

Just curious, would your DM allow you to use the baby dragon as a fire proof shield?

[Swiftest]

Just curious, would your DM allow you to use the baby dragon as a fire proof shield?

One of us could probably use it for cover (+2 to reflex save vs dragon's breath weapon) but that's probably about it I'm guessing.

[Daer]

Well if they are intelligent and able to speak common dragons then guess best chance is to try strike a deal.. Though capturing the egg sure doesn't help.
But seems they are needing new guards.. so might be able to play with that.

otherwise you would need some decoy to pull dragon elsewhere while people run to safe.

[Canarr]

+1 to the Diplomacy route. I don't care how tactically clever you are, unless your GM plays the Dragon as being stupid (which, maybe, Red Dragons are in your world), you're toast. Any competent Dragon with a CR 4-5 levels above yours will waste you, especially since your options are limited with regards to preparing for the battle. And you are on its turf. As soon as it realizes that the young one is missing, it'll go over the area where it disappeared, and then it'll find you. I don't think you'll get a full night's sleep.

Blaming the Blue Dragon might work; if the Reds are still CE, they'd betray the Blue in a heartbeat even if they were allied, so they'll have no trouble believing that the Blue might do the same - if you can beat their Sense Motive with your Bluff, of course.

Or, alternatively:


But seems they are needing new guards.. so might be able to play with that.


Free your hostage, call down the larger Dragon, and tell them you're now prepared to negotiate your contract to replace their former guards. You've already proven that you're better than the trolls, by killing them and capturing the smallest Dragon, and you wish to enter their service.

[Garwain]

Someone is going to take one for the team.... I vote the monkey.

[Traab]

Im bad on spells, does anyone have the ability to dominate the young dragon or otherwise control it? Do so and send it out flying like a bat out of hell in the opposite direction you want to go. With luck the bigger dragon will see it and chase after it wondering what the hell its doing, giving you time to make a break for it and hopefully escape or find a better hiding spot.

[Madwand99]

If you weren't core only, I'd suggest memorizing the Burrow spell and burrowing into the hillside, and beyond.

[jackattack]

I take it there is no flowing water on this mountainside. Was there any in the tunnels? Following a stream or braving an underground river would be really great options about now.

Could tree shape firm up your concealment? Don't know if standing over your foxhole and becoming a tree would hide your party, or drill them with roots.

That soften earth/stone spell could be used to trap the dragon as it lands, but only for a round or two. Don't know if that's enough of an advantage to be worthwhile.

Are the dragons in your world standard dragons (other than being "mythological"), or do they have special qualities? Do the stories in the world background have any clues about vulnerabilities, especially the teeth or claws or skin of another dragon? Some quick butchery might give you an edge, even if it's only an improvised fire blanket to keep the fire off (some of) you.

[Venser]

Note that all dragons are spellcasters so I doubt trapping him would work. He would just teleport away.

Also, though they are evil, they are not stupid. You might just, if u manage to rob a bank, bribe them :P

[Zubrowka74]

Yeah, that'd be my first reaction : bribe the younger one, with bluffs and diplomacy. Offer him whatever gold you have and magic items you can't use. Just say he should have a bigger hoard, that the other two are keeping him down. Play the pride card. But the problem is if he'll honor the deal or not. Too bad it ain't the blue one.

[Dr.Orpheus]

If anyone has craft (hang glider) you have a nice set of dragon wings to work with.

[Rorrik]

How extensive was the cave system? As long as the large one is away it may be worth a try to get back in the caves if they're complex enough to stay hidden for a while until they decide you're long gone. With luck, there may be passages too small for them to check easily and maybe another way out.

It's a long shot, but maybe all you've got if the tunnels were labyrinthine enough.

[Arbitrarious]

So a few questions. Define narrow. If you are having issues pushing through the dragon may not be able to at all. Do the caverns fork into narrower openings? What kind of terrain is the mountain? If it's decently wooded you should be able to go down the mountain without attracting too much attention. Even dragons actually have to make spot checks to see you and having tree cover would be a tremendous advantage. Even better is waiting until dark and going. Range penalties on spot and listen can work in your favor there. If you go at night and you still have animal messenger, cast light on an object then partially obscure it and give it to the animal. Then have it go a different direction then you. The dragon will see the light and investigate which will take time. If you can get into densely wooded areas I don't think it will find you unless it opts to take out the forest with a fire.

[eclipsic]

Summon a Mount. Dress up the ape in clothes and put it on the Mount and send it down the only trail, at breakneck speed, telling it and the mount to avoid the dragon. If your sorcerer has invisibility, make sure to invisitize both the ape, just to make the dragon work a little harder. Throw some monkeys summoned with Summon Nature's Ally I cloaked in halfling-sized clothes into the mix, who can jump off the Mount and flee in opposite directions and down the nearest bolthole for some more delaying tactics.

If/when the dragon takes the bait (or, preferably just prior to), summon hippogriffs for everybody and fly down the opposite side of the mountain. 4 rounds of Summon Nature's Ally II means 4 rounds of quadruple moves (I think only the most draconian of DMs would disallow a power dive down the side of a mountain on the basis of too much weight, if you'll pardon the pun), so you'll only be able to get about a 1/4 mile running start, but at least you'll have a mountain between you and the ape-chasing dragon. When you do hit the ground, cast Pass Without A Trace on whoever you can, and hit the woods.

Pray. A lot.

[EDIT: Probably can't invisitize a Mount, so better to have the invisible ape jump off the Mount at some point and create yet another search vector for the dragon.]

[Dancingdeath]

I can't help but notice you referring to the dragons by size instead of age category. Is this a 3e or a 4e campaign?:smallconfused:

[Rorrik]

Well, how'd it go? Was there a great escape or a fabulous slaughter?

[Dairuga]

We want to know! Tell us the stories of how it went!

[Swiftest]

Sorry for my extremely late reply. Here's how it went:

We decided (majority rule against my objections) to simply cower in fear and hope for the best. Low and behold, my initial attempt at camouflage was successful! We were actually able to hide out in our tiny cave until nightfall. For the entire period we were waiting up in the cave hearing the dragon fly by scouring the mountainside for us, but the DM rolled terrible spot checks for it (1 and 2, rolled right in front of us) and we were never found. He never came close enough to detect us with blindsense, apparently. When night came we took stock and decided that taking the young red dragon with us was certain death. Our paladin was against killing a subdued creature out of hand (grrr) so we left it unconscious but free in our tiny cave with a note (in common) that read:


OH SUPREMELY MIGHTY DRAGON,

We were exploring this mountain when we were attacked by this young one. We defended ourselves, but knew better than to kill one of your most impressive and wonderful race. We return him to you alive as a sign of our good will and leave you in peace.

We didn't expect this note to accomplish much but hey -- a little grovelling never hurts. As soon as this was done we sped down the mountainside on the face opposite that which held the dragon's cave. There was no direct route so we just used ropes and pitons to make a path as we went. Unfortunately on the way down we ran into another troll guard patrolling a narrow path with a sheer drop on one side and the vertical mountain face on the other. This troll was no pushover like the others. He had a large bow and greatsword and he hit like a truck. I suspect he had ranger or fighter levels.

It was a VERY hard fight, he did terrible damage with a +16/+11ish to hit (plus his bite) and an AC in the mid 20's. My druid's ape died after doing 40+ damage to him over 2 rounds (I rolled amazingly). The whole party was crushed -- we love that ape! We then proceeded to beat the living daylights out of the troll with the action advantage that a party of 4 has over a solo enemy. I summoned several hippogriffs, the sorcerer used his last scorching rays, etc. Just when we seemed to have things under control the troll actually fumbled an attack (we use fumble rules) and ended up falling off the edge of the cliff to land on another path 40 feet below.

Unfortunately the troll was of course still alive after the fall (and regenerating quickly) and this put us in an awful situation. We knew we couldn't let him live or he would go straight to the dragons, but we also couldn't just jump down after him! Killing him at range was no use as our sorcerer was out of scorching rays and weren't confident of our ability to hit his high AC with regular ranged weapons anyhow. With no featherfall we were forced to lower a rope and go down after him which took a couple rounds (during which he shot us with large arrows for nasty damage). My hippogriffs kept him from fleeing but were largely ignored otherwise. We finally made it down to his level and our cleric dropped him with a critical hit whereupon we promptly coup de graced him with lit torches.

At this point the party was awfully wounded, without it's best fighter (my ape haha) and still in terrible fear of being found by the dragons. We dragged the dead ape behind us (I insisted) and finally made it off the mountain and into the scrublands that lead to the forest.

FREEDOM AT LAST! We survived -- err, mostly!

...

The very next day (after resting, burying my companion, and leveling to 5) our entire party died fighting a coven of hags we came upon by chance while returning to our home town. It was terrible. Critical fumbles galor. Stupid tactics from various members. Min damage rolls 24/7. Natural one's on fortitude saves for nasty strength damage. A forcecage (!!!!!!!) was involved. I'll tell that story too if people want to hear it haha.

[TheTick]

That is great. I was curious as to what happened also.

[unundindur]

Nooo! Well well, it sure sounds like an epic tale - while it lasted :smallamused:

[Canarr]

Sounds like a cool story; too bad it ends in blood...

But I'd like to hear the hag-story, too.