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Venger
2012-03-19, 02:50 AM
I'm starting a new game and the DM is using the "item level" rules in the MiC. our cap's set at 6th, which means nothing over 2300, and we are 8th lvl characters.

I'm the only caster in the party and wanted to cover our bases. I've only got access to the cleric list on my own. however, I've got a perfectly respectable UMD mod of 16 at the moment. how many more ranks do I need before I can stop, since the DCs are flat and don't get more difficult as I level up. I've played this game a lot, but never really had a character that used UMD.

what are good spells to get in wands? for the time being, due to the price cap, I can only get 1st lvl wands. party is as follows, since that might be of use:

warlock xx/chameleon 2/ ???
rog1/fighter4/dervish 3
overwhelming atk monk 2/ftr2/monk3/drunken master 3
human paragon 1/passive way monk 2/hp3/ur-priest 3 (me)

what would be a good aim regarding wands? buff the drunken master? buffing myself? any help would be appreciated

Corlindale
2012-03-19, 03:52 AM
As for investing points in UMD, it depends on what you want. Do you just need it for wands? Then you stop when you reliably hit 20. If you want to use scrolls and similar, you need to go higher.

Buff spells are generally good on wands, because they are usually fairly independent of CL and save DCs - and generally you want wand spells where this is the case.

Good first level buffs are Enlarge Person and Protection from Evil. At least your two melee types will benefit a lot from enlarge.
Cure Light Wounds is of course a staple for out of combat healing too, but I assume you already know that. Though I think Lesser Vigor might be superior, from what I hear.

Acanous
2012-03-19, 04:15 AM
Lesser Vigor is good, Mage Armor is good (Flat bonus, lasts an hour, only suggesting it because you're a monk), Haste is marvellous.

hymer
2012-03-19, 04:17 AM
Lion's Charge from Savage Species, should your DM allow it. Allows full attacks on charging 1min/lvl.

Feytalist
2012-03-19, 04:29 AM
Spells like wraithstrike or critical strike are good too. Swift action activate makes for good times.

Tr011
2012-03-19, 04:35 AM
You need either quickdraw or Wand Chamber (Dungeonscape) + Returning Crystal (MiC) + any weapon for those:
Energy Aegis (PHB2), Wings of Cover (RoD IIRC)

Canarr
2012-03-19, 05:26 AM
I love my wand of Obscuring Mist; has saved the party's bacon many times, even at levels 8-10. Ray of Enfeeblement is an option, if you've nothing else to do in a battle. Shield is always nice to have; same goes for True Strike, if you absolutely need to make that one hit.

Darrin
2012-03-19, 08:19 AM
what are good spells to get in wands? for the time being, due to the price cap, I can only get 1st lvl wands.

Offense:

Blade of Blood (PHBII, Dsk/Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, +1d6 damage, or sacrifice 5 HP for +3d6 damage.

Blades of Fire (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, two weapons touched get +1d8 fire damage for 1 round.

Color Spray (Core, Sor/Wiz 1): At low levels, can end encounters just by itself. At mid- to higher levels, essentially a save vs. stun, but it's a Will save, so occasionally useful even against big ugly nasties (for example: Purple Worm has a Will save +4, so this wand has a 30% chance of stunning it for a round).

Fetid Breath (Ghostwalk Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030607a), Sor/Wiz 1): Stinking cloud as a 10' cone. Only a Fort save DC 11, but great against low-level sorcerers/wizards.

Instant of Power (Forge of War, Brd/Dru/Rgr 1): Immediate action, give any ally a +4 enhancement bonus on their next attack, save, or damage roll.

Kaupaer's Quickblast (Online article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), Sor/Wiz 1): Free/immediate/swift action (not sure which, 3.0 spell), autohits with either cold, electricity, or fire damage. Great way to quickly light something on fire (webs, incendiary slime, oil, etc.).

Defense:

Feather Fall (Core, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Make the monk cry ("Slow fall? You call that a class feature?").

Instant Diversion (Races of the Dragon, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, lesser version of mirror image, creates only one duplicate but that's still a 50%miss chance in a pinch.

Invisibility, Swift (Spell Compendium, Brd 1): I love that you can use this *after* you attack. Note: costs 1500 GP, not 750 GP, because minimum CL = 2 for 1st level bard spells.

Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Never get caught flat-footed again.

Battlefield Control:

Benign Transposition (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Two willing targets swap positions, keep your meatbags up front and your REMFs in the back.

Blockade (Complete Scoundrel, Dru/Rgr/Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, creates 5' block of wood for creating choke points or blocking narrow passages/doors. Also provides an ample supply of "I've got wood" jokes.

Entangle (Core, Dru/Rgr 1): Bread-and-butter debuffer. If there aren't any plants nearby, cast spore field (Complete Scoundrel) first or switch to impeding stones (Cityscape).

Faerie Fire (Core, Dru 1): Negates invisibility and concealment (but not magical darkness). If you don't want to buy a whole wand, pick up a few pouches of Torch Bug Paste (25 GP each, Complete Scoundrel) for a similar effect.

Ice Slick (Frostburn, Clr 1): Grease for healbots, but with 4x the area (20' square).

Impeding Stones (Cityscape, Dru/Rgr 1): Better version of entangle, -2 penalty to attack and anyone in a 40' radius must make a Ref save/Balance check or fall prone, which means this is an even bigger version of grease/ice slick.

Silent Image (Core, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Create fake pits/walls, great for messing with mindless creatures.

Spore Field (Complete Scoundrel, Dru 1): Creates difficult terrain, and save vs. sicken.

Utility:

Lessor Vigor (Spell Compendium, Clr/Dru 1): Most effective out-of-combat healing in the game, 11 HP per charge, so 750 GP = 550 HP.

Grave Strike (Spell Compendium, Clr/Pal 1): Swift action, lets you sneak attack undead. Unfortunately, it's Range: Personal, so you can't cast it on the party rogues, they have to activate it themselves. If they don't have Truedeath Crystals, then consider buying a couple of Skull Talismans (Frostburn, similar to potions but no "range" restrictions).

Golem Strike (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, lets you sneak attack constructs. Same activation issues as grave strike. If the rogues are having trouble with constructs, look for some Golembane Scarabs.

Mount (Core, Sor/Wiz 1): Similar to summon monster/summon nature's ally, but duration is 2 hours. Use as trap testers, "wall of horses", or various horse-trading scams.

Ray of Resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerun, Clr 1): Removes Str damage and fatigue.

Vine Strike (Spell Compendium, Dru/Rgr 1): Swift action, lets you sneak attack plants. Not really that important, since most plants tend to be slow/immobile and highly flammable. Same activation issues as grave strike.

Venger
2012-03-19, 05:48 PM
As for investing points in UMD, it depends on what you want. Do you just need it for wands? Then you stop when you reliably hit 20. If you want to use scrolls and similar, you need to go higher.

Buff spells are generally good on wands, because they are usually fairly independent of CL and save DCs - and generally you want wand spells where this is the case.

Good first level buffs are Enlarge Person and Protection from Evil. At least your two melee types will benefit a lot from enlarge.
Cure Light Wounds is of course a staple for out of combat healing too, but I assume you already know that. Though I think Lesser Vigor might be superior, from what I hear.

wands were all I really had in mind, and they function at a flat DC of 20. is there a particularly good reason to want to use scrolls? I was fortunate enough to roll well enough to have good mental stats, (15 int, 16 cha, 17 wis) so I won't have a problem activating wands needing to emulate the right ability score, since it funcitons as roll-15, which would be pretty hard otherwise.

what do you mean by "and such" ? isn't wands and scrolls everything you use UMD for?

I do love enlarge person, but the drunken master is an elan (prcing into zerth cenobite after finishing DM) and the dervish has a hard enough time moving around the battlefield anyway, so enlarging wouldn't make it much easier, plush she dumped str, so the effect would be kind of minimal.

lesser vigor is pretty great and I plan to use it all the time since I (fortunately) can't spontaneously do cures.


Ray of Enfeeblement

it's always the quiet ones. I'd forgotten there was no save or level dependent stuff, so the damage stays relevant. whether fighting a caster or a big monster, this is always going to be good. thanks for reminding me! I thought it had a save for some reason


wow, thanks! that's a great list.


Offense:

Blade of Blood (PHBII, Dsk/Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, +1d6 damage, or sacrifice 5 HP for +3d6 damage.

Blades of Fire (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, two weapons touched get +1d8 fire damage for 1 round.

Color Spray (Core, Sor/Wiz 1): At low levels, can end encounters just by itself. At mid- to higher levels, essentially a save vs. stun, but it's a Will save, so occasionally useful even against big ugly nasties (for example: Purple Worm has a Will save +4, so this wand has a 30% chance of stunning it for a round).

Fetid Breath (Ghostwalk Web Enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20030607a), Sor/Wiz 1): Stinking cloud as a 10' cone. Only a Fort save DC 11, but great against low-level sorcerers/wizards.

Instant of Power (Forge of War, Brd/Dru/Rgr 1): Immediate action, give any ally a +4 enhancement bonus on their next attack, save, or damage roll.

Kaupaer's Quickblast (Online article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050112a), Sor/Wiz 1): Free/immediate/swift action (not sure which, 3.0 spell), autohits with either cold, electricity, or fire damage. Great way to quickly light something on fire (webs, incendiary slime, oil, etc.).
I had forgotten color spray still worked on creatures over 6HD, I thought it stopped doing stuff at a certain point, like sleep.

blades of fire appears to work on my monk punches, which makes me giggle. useful if fighting [cold] creatures for a 1st lvl slot, especially if using flurry if their AC is bad (due to naturally bad AC or debuffing from me)


Defense:

Feather Fall (Core, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Make the monk cry ("Slow fall? You call that a class feature?").

Instant Diversion (Races of the Dragon, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, lesser version of mirror image, creates only one duplicate but that's still a 50/50 in a pinch.

Invisibility, Swift (Spell Compendium, Brd 1): I love that you can use this *after* you attack. Note: costs 1500 GP, not 750 GP, because minimum CL = 2 for 1st level bard spells.

Nerveskitter (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Never get caught flat-footed again.
Lol'd at that. we two monks were smart enough to hop out before we get the coveted slow fall ability, though. Does feather fall come up often? I've never really had a chance to use it.

invisibility swift wil let the two of us function as invisible fists while keeping evasion. very nice!

nerveskitter's certainly better than keeping sign on before combat. swift activation is pretty cool too



Battlefield Control:

Benign Transposition (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Two willing targets swap positions, keep your meatbags up front and your REMFs in the back.

Blockade (Complete Scoundrel, Dru/Rgr/Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, creates 5' block of wood for creating choke points or blocking narrow passages/doors. Also provides an ample supply of "I've got wood" jokes.

Entangle (Core, Dru/Rgr 1): Bread-and-butter debuffer. If there aren't any plants nearby, cast Spore Field first.

Faerie Fire (Core, Dru 1): Negates invisibility and concealment (but not magical darkness). If you don't want to buy a whole wand, pick up a few pouches of Torch Bug Paste (25 GP each, Complete Scoundrel) for a similar effect.

Ice Slick (Frostburn, Clr 1): Grease for healbots, but with 4x the area (20' square).

Silent Image (Core, Brd/Sor/Wiz 1): Create fake pits/walls, great for messing with mindless creatures.

Spore Field (Complete Scoundrel, Dru 1): Creates difficult terrain, and save vs. sicken.
I really love the idea of benign transposition but have never gotten the chance to use it. it'll be great with summons later on. I plan on summoning monsters and stealing their SLAs from lvl 15 on, and benign transposition will do a great job of staying relevant.

huh, never heard of blockade before, it's giving me qbert flashbacks. could really wreak havoc on a 5'foot corridor, which my DM has been trying out lately in our other game.

whoa! faerie fire is amazing. who needs glitterdust?

thanks for mentioning ice slick, it'e really hard for me to keep the spells straight in frostburn since their titles are very similar. 5 ranks in balance is the best. thanks, human paragon, thuman paragon.



Utility:

Lessor Vigor (Spell Compendium, Clr/Dru 1): Most effective out-of-combat healing in the game, 11 HP per charge, so 750 GP = 550 HP.

Grave Strike (Spell Compendium, Clr/Pal 1): Swift action, lets you sneak attack undead. Unfortunately, it's Range: Personal, so you can't cast it on the party rogues, they have to activate it themselves. If they don't have Truedeath Crystals, then consider buying a couple of Skull Talismans (Frostburn, similar to potions but no "range" restrictions).

Golem Strike (Spell Compendium, Sor/Wiz 1): Swift action, lets you sneak attack constructs. Same activation issues as Grave Strike. If the rogues are having trouble with constructs, look for some Golembane Scarabs.

Mount (Core, Sor/Wiz 1): Similar to summon monster/SNA, but duration is 2 hours. Use as trap testers, "wall of horses", or various horse-trading scams.

Ray of Resurgence (Lost Empires of Faerun, Clr 1): Removes Str damage and fatigue.


Vine Strike (Spell Compendium, Dru/Rgr 1): Swift action, lets you sneak attack plants. Not really that important, since most plants tend to be slow/immobile and highly flammable. Same activation issues as Grave Strike.
unfortunately, I have no sneak attack and don't really plan on getting one since we rolled for abilities and I didn't have an even enough spread to have good physical scores (11/11/14/15/17/16), so I'll generally stay away from melee unless delivering touch spells, especially since I only have 55 hp. is a wand of bear's endurance a good way to help out with that, or is there a better way? I'd already figured I'd have an eternal wand of eagle's splendor to get more turn attempts for the pool later on when I can afford them.

The Cat Goddess
2012-03-19, 06:19 PM
I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Knock spell...

nedz
2012-03-19, 06:23 PM
what do you mean by "and such" ? isn't wands and scrolls everything you use UMD for?


Staffs and any number of Misc Items which have class requirements.
E.g. Monk's Belt: emulate a monk of your character level + 5, you still don't get slow fall I'm afraid.:smallbiggrin:

Venger
2012-03-19, 06:38 PM
Staffs and any number of Misc Items which have class requirements.
E.g. Monk's Belt: emulate a monk of your character level + 5, you still don't get slow fall I'm afraid.:smallbiggrin:

oh, that's fine, I've already got 2 monk levels. doesn't that mean I'd be able to wear the belt without a UMD check? like i said, I'm going to avoid melee for the most part, so I don't think I'll need a monk belt since I already get wis to AC