LGBTAitP - Part 22: The Best There Is

[Triscuitable]

Howdy folks! We've got the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Asexual/Allies in the Playground (on the twenty-second instance thereof) going on! So let's make sure we keep to the rules established twenty-one threads ago, so this can be a pleasant experience for all.

The rules are as follows.

No adult sexual content. It's against site rules.
Let's keep things as A-political as possible.
Similarly, try to leave religion out of it.
NO discussing if LGBTAetc. is "good" or "right" for the above reasons, mostly.
Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, A, N, V, Q, Ω, everyone. As long as they behave themselves.


If you feel like you need to ask a question or two, this is the place to do so. Same goes for advice.

If you want advice or have a question, but don't feel comfortable posting here or giving your name, go here:

http://anonmail.smeenet.org/

and your comment can be sent and posted here anonymously.

In addition, many members are willing to give private advice one on one, either through email or PM. If they want to be added to the contacts listed, they just need to ask and I'll post a link below this paragraph.

I'm not much for PMing, but I'm good with social things. If you feel that's necessary, please hit me up for some one-on-one, and I can get whatever's eating at you sorted out. But honestly, there are better people for that.

Previous threads, because archives are important.


LGBT people in the playground (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62225)

LGBT people in the playground - part II (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86066)

LGBTitp - part III (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5663140#post5663140)

LGBTitp 4: We are a family? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129235)

LGBTitp - Part Five (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143424)

LGBTitp - Part Six (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147832)

LGBTitp - Part Seven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157312)

LGBTitp - Part Eight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167395)

LGBTitp - Part Nine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172747)

LGBTAitp - Part Ten (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177253)

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181683)

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10335967#)

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192714)

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200329)

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207987)

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11820872#)

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219966)

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223792)

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227182)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12613347)

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233833)


And Golentan's previously posted list of Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases.
Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG:Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Not very common.

Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to both male and female people.
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is only sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Androsexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the male-bodied form.
Gynosexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the female-bodied form
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)

Oh, and remember to give lots of *hugs* to everyone out there! :smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

Ah, that lovely new-thread smell!

[supernerd]

now what do we call this one?

also: Yay! New Thread! *spreads around the liquid joy, made of extract of Shiro's adorable releationship*

Hugs and butterfly kisses,
Your Draco
(props if you get the last bit)

[Heliomance]

Why do we only have a week to decide on a subtitle?

[Triscuitable]

Why do we only have a week to decide on a subtitle?

You have a week to edit the thread title. After that, only mods can do it. I think they've got better things to do than change thread titles at the request of us, lowly posters. :smallbiggrin:

[pffh]

You're missing the last thread in the previous threads spoiler.

[Heliomance]

You have a week to edit the thread title. After that, only mods can do it. I think they've got better things to do than change thread titles at the request of us, lowly posters. :smallbiggrin:

You sure about that? My Random Banter thread a few threads ago, I was changing the title repeatedly, right up to the end.

[Triscuitable]

You're missing the last thread in the previous threads spoiler.

And I thought I was so thorough. :smalltongue:

[Qaera]

I think it's a month, not a week. Maybe your Random Banter thread didn't last more than a week? :smalltongue:

I have to wear socks around the house now :x

~ ♅

[Astrella]

Question. Are there any trans men on here who were bi/gay who find that after T they become straight?

My (now ex) partner of 8 years claims such a thing has happened he was a little bi, but mostly only interested in men, and now he is only interested in women. It's killing me. I never had to consider my sexuality, I assumed I was straight. He came out as male. After a brief period of angst and questioning, realised that I was attracted to men in general (not just him) and saw this as a good thing. Now after 2 1/2 years of T, he says he's only interested in women.

It hurts so much... I was wondering if anyone else had any experience of this or whether it is bovine dung and not related to the testosterone at all.

:smallfrown:
I've heard from other trans* people on HRT that their sexuality shifted, but that seems a rather drastic shift... Hmm, maybe try asking on r/asktransgender (http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/)? It's the biggest trans* community I know online, you'll probably have more success there.
*hugs*


And, I just filed my first passport for a trans girl. Hopefully, the State Department doesn't jerk her around anymore.

Awesome~

-----

A list (http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/r3eq9/so_what_are_the_dumbest_reasons_people_think/) of semi-silly reasons for transitioning as given by other people.

[Kneenibble]

Wooo! New thread! This time around I won't be so vacuous and irrelevant.



also: Yay! New Thread! *spreads around the liquid joy, made of extract of Shiro's adorable releationship*

Not in the hair, I have a date tonight


I can't help myself

[supernerd]

Wooo! New thread! This time around I won't be so vacuous and irrelevant.




Not in the hair, I have a date tonight


I can't help myself

challenge accepted :smallamused:

[Anethiel]

Ideas for the thread subtitle:

In the neapolitan Smorfia*, 22 symbolizes "The Crazy Guy".
In Tarots, the 22th Major Arcana is The Fool**. (Wow, what a funny coincidence. Maybe not a coincidence, too.)

To be honest, I don't know if this stuff will be useful. :smallfrown:

* A collection of folklore items, characters and concepts associated to each of the numbers from 1 to 90, traditionally used for the purposes of interpreting dreams, referencing hidden meanings, and... adding flavor to bingo games :smallconfused:

** Actually The Fool has no number, but sometime it is referenced with the number 0 or, less often, the number 22.

[turkishproverb]

*looks at new thread*

Wow. We've got over 49 pages to fill up. Well better get to work.

*posts*

[Kindablue]

You have a week to edit the thread title. After that, only mods can do it. I think they've got better things to do than change thread titles at the request of us, lowly posters. :smallbiggrin:

How about this?

"That's some catch, that Catch-22," [Orr] observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.

[Laser Frog]

*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

[Viera Champion]

now what do we call this one?

also: Yay! New Thread! *spreads around the liquid joy, made of extract of Shiro's adorable releationship*

Hey! I was planning on selling that on the black market!


*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

Welcome, my good friend, to our humble abode. I'd invite you to stay in my room, as it has an extra bed, but I'm saving it for someone. We have plenty of empty ones that you can unpack in though. Go crazy and decorate it if you want.

[Arachu]

*Obligatory hugpocalypse*


Why do we only have a week to decide on a subtitle?

Because we'll be on the 23rd by then. :smalltongue:


I have to wear socks around the house now :x

~ ♅

*Hugs* Too bad. Nothing so shiny should be caged up like that.


A list (http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/r3eq9/so_what_are_the_dumbest_reasons_people_think/) of semi-silly reasons for transitioning as given by other people.

I've had to use "lost a bet" to explain why my nails were so shiny. I don't think my aunt "bought" it, but I started with saying it was "dirt or something" so I threw her off. :smalltongue:


Wooo! New thread! This time around I won't be so vacuous and irrelevant.


Not in the hair, I have a date tonight


I can't help myself

Don't you need a topic to be relevant? :smalltongue:

Good luck on your date. :smallsmile:


*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

Good to have ya! *Glomps*

I'm a pan(?)sexual transwoman, myself. Also a rather hopeless romantic. :Starry, animesque eyes:

[noparlpf]

Ah, that lovely new-thread smell!

You know, it smells kind of like methylene chloride in here. Maybe I should have washed my hands before eating.


*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

Welcome! I think somebody has cookies and somebody might have coffee or something. Maybe tea. I dunno. All I have is methylene chloride-flavored hands and a cheeseburger. Oh goodness I should go to sleep...hey hands what are you doing we're not opening up "Batman Begins" now it's bedtime, no not "Dan Vs." either, nor "Wandering Son".

[Triscuitable]

How about this?

If I change it to this, will we all be happy?

[supernerd]

*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

Welcome. I did an introduction back on the beginning of thread 19, so it's cool bro. Best decision of my 16yo life(well maybe not the absolute best, but a few years from now it's definitely gonna rank in my top 10). We are here to support you in all your endeavors. Best of luck and happy thread frolicking!


Hey! I was planning on selling that on the black market!



Welcome, my good friend, to our humble abode. I'd invite you to stay in my room, as it has an extra bed, but I'm saving it for someone. We have plenty of empty ones that you can unpack in though. Go crazy and decorate it if you want.

First off :smallbiggrin:

Secondly: Oh, Shiro, always so noble! Let me speak with thee in the Tongue of Nobles for hours! :smalltongue: you know we love you

[Nix Nihila]

Welcome, Laser Frog! Always nice to see new people here.

No, It doesn't seem to be too rare for Asexual people to have romantic attractions, although you don't often find people who aren't asexual who have a different romantic orientation from their sexual orientation, it seems.

[Qaera]

*Hugs* Too bad. Nothing so shiny should be caged up like that.
If you keep complimenting me, I might need to get your number, if my wife Lena and Master Shiro let me :P

~ ♅

[supernerd]

Welcome, Lazer Frog! Always nice to see new people here.

No, It doesn't seem to be too rare for Asexual people to have romantic attractions, although you don't often find people who aren't asexual who have a different romantic orientation from their sexual orientation, it seems.

That would be interesting... The guy I like says he feels like a 5 but he seems to be physically a 2 if that counts...

[Viera Champion]

If you keep complimenting me, I might need to get your number, if my wife Lena and Master Shiro let me :P

~ ♅

Permission granted, darling. Just don't forget to come home when you're done playing with your new friend.

[Laser Frog]

Thanks for the welcomes, everyone!


Welcome, my good friend, to our humble abode. I'd invite you to stay in my room, as it has an extra bed, but I'm saving it for someone. We have plenty of empty ones that you can unpack in though. Go crazy and decorate it if you want.
Hey now...leave me to decorate that room and it would be a far tackier place. :smallamused: I'll take you up on that offer, though. (Although to be honest, I didn't even know we HAD rooms around here :smallconfused: )


I'm a pan(?)sexual transwoman, myself. Also a rather hopeless romantic. :Starry, animesque eyes:
Hehe, I use "romantic" in the loosest sense. I've been told I'm a rather stodgy person, but at least I can be a little crazier on the internet. And believe me, I've been known to do just that.


Welcome! I think somebody has cookies and somebody might have coffee or something. Maybe tea. I dunno. All I have is methylene chloride-flavored hands and a cheeseburger. Oh goodness I should go to sleep...hey hands what are you doing we're not opening up "Batman Begins" now it's bedtime, no not "Dan Vs." either, nor "Wandering Son".
Tea, you say? I'm quite a tea enthusiast. Right now I'm drinking a mix of jasmine pearl and peach herbal tea, and it's quite good. It cost me an arm and a leg, but it was worth it.


No, It doesn't seem to be too rare for Asexual people to have romantic attractions, although you don't often find people who aren't asexual who have a different romantic orientation from their sexual orientation, it seems.
A disparity between romantic and sexual orientation in non-asexual people is something I can't really understand (especially from personal experience, obviously), but I know it is possible. I just have to wonder how common it is without people realizing it.

[turkishproverb]

*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

Hi Newby! Welcome!

*hugs*

[Triscuitable]

*peeeeeeks in*

...Hi! I'm new-ish (but been lurking for years), and since I haven't really made a name for myself, you may call me any permutation of my user name. I've known these LGBTAitP threads exist for quite some time, and now that I've officially joined the forum, this thread seemed like a nifty place to hang out. I never would have guessed one of these threads would start on the day I joined, so it looks like my timing was good?

Now for my little intro: I'm 25 years old and identify as gay, even though my sexuality isn't that simple. I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic), which as I've learned during my time/research online, isn't all too rare.

I know this thread says right at the start that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc. spectrum, but hey, why not? Anyway, I look forward to meeting you folks, as well as seeing how this thread pans out. :smallsmile:

Howdy! I see you've taken all of the known entrances that the thread is known for having.

*Goes back to listening to Dead or Alive* :smallcool:

[Viera Champion]

Hey now...leave me to decorate that room and it would be a far tackier place. :smallamused: I'll take you up on that offer, though. (Although to be honest, I didn't even know we HAD rooms around here :smallconfused: )

If you want help with tackiness, Shiro is your man!

They're virtual rooms.

And while on the topic of labels, I'm a gay male (both sexually and romantically) who uses masculine pronouns but would never complain if anyone called me Mizz Mitchell.

[Laser Frog]

Yay, hugs! They're much better in internet form, IMO.

And labels? :smallfrown: Hoping I didn't say anything touchy here. If so, I apologize.

[supernerd]

Thanks for the welcomes, everyone!


Hey now...leave me to decorate that room and it would be a far tackier place. :smallamused: I'll take you up on that offer, though. (Although to be honest, I didn't even know we HAD rooms around here :smallconfused: )


Hehe, I use "romantic" in the loosest sense. I've been told I'm a rather stodgy person, but at least I can be a little crazier on the internet. And believe me, I've been known to do just that.


Tea, you say? I'm quite a tea enthusiast. Right now I'm drinking a mix of jasmine pearl and peach herbal tea, and it's quite good. It cost me an arm and a leg, but it was worth it.


A disparity between romantic and sexual orientation in non-asexual people is something I can't really understand (especially from personal experience, obviously), but I know it is possible. I just have to wonder how common it is without people realizing it.

You know like my welcome? :smallfrown: It's because I'm a nerd/white/British cigarette/choir kid/Hispanic(pssh only half so by blood and hip swivel aptitude)/slightly perfectionist isn't it? *runs off crying*

-why do the people not like me? Is it because I'm a horrible person? I know I am. Am I too offensive? I try my best not to be. Is it because I'm a freak? I'm normal I swear!

Oh I'm pathetic when I get depressed, thank God it's only lasted for three hours at a time before I'm back to my happy, flamboyant, inuendo cracking self, and that I never contemplate suicide.

Well anyways so I Have found myself having sexuality issues for about ten minutes a day on average recently. It's not who I am, just things like, why can't I just be normal and like boobs? Things would be so much simpler! But as if that would solve anything. I don't live in the most conservative of houses, but the pressure to conform is decently high

[Laser Frog]

You know like my welcome? :smallfrown: It's because I'm a nerd/white/British cigarette/choir kid/Hispanic(pssh only half so by blood and hip swivel aptitude)/slightly perfectionist isn't it? *runs off crying*

-why do the people not like me? Is it because I'm a horrible person? I know I am. Am I too offensive? I try my best not to be. Is it because I'm a freak? I'm normal I swear!

Oh I'm pathetic when I get depressed, thank God it's only lasted for three hours at a time before I'm back to my happy, flamboyant, inuendo cracking self, and that I never contemplate suicide.

Well anyways so I Have found myself having sexuality issues for about ten minutes a day on average recently. It's not who I am, just things like, why can't I just be normal and like boobs? Things would be so much simpler! But as if that would solve anything. I don't live in the most conservative of houses, but the pressure to conform is decently high
So sorry, Supernerd! I assure you I have nothing against you, and I fit almost all the same descriptions you listed (assuming "British cigarette" is the result of some kind of language filter?). I must have accidentally skipped yours when I was copying/quoting other peoples' replies. I apologize if I upset you too badly.

[Kneenibble]

Yay, hugs! They're much better in internet form, IMO.

And labels? :smallfrown: Hoping I didn't say anything touchy here. If so, I apologize.

No, certainly not! In fact when I read your first post and you mentioned "that it's very inclusive and there was really no need to describe how I fit into the whole LGBTAetc," I went angrily to the first post to make sure nobody had written anything proscribing descriptive introductions.

Be welcome, and discourse your inclinations as much as you like good sir. I, for one, will be standing right here, ready to harass serious discussion with crude innuendos and attempts at empathy as graceful as a featherless baby bird's first steps outside the nest.


You know like my welcome? :smallfrown: It's because I'm a nerd/white/British cigarette/choir kid/Hispanic(pssh only half so by blood and hip swivel aptitude)/slightly perfectionist isn't it? *runs off crying*

-why do the people not like me? Is it because I'm a horrible person? I know I am. Am I too offensive? I try my best not to be. Is it because I'm a freak? I'm normal I swear!

Oh I'm pathetic when I get depressed, thank God it's only lasted for three hours at a time before I'm back to my happy, flamboyant, inuendo cracking self, and that I never contemplate suicide.

Well anyways so I Have found myself having sexuality issues for about ten minutes a day on average recently. It's not who I am, just things like, why can't I just be normal and like boobs? Things would be so much simpler! But as if that would solve anything. I don't live in the most conservative of houses, but the pressure to conform is decently high

;______;

I crave your bright flames like Morgoth coveted the silmarils.

Don't change.

[supernerd]

So sorry, Supernerd! I assure you I have nothing against you, and I fit almost all the same descriptions you listed (assuming "British cigarette" is the result of some kind of language filter?). I must have accidentally skipped yours when I was copying/quoting other peoples' replies. I apologize if I upset you too badly.

Dude it's fine. I was using mild disappointment to springboard into some of the more serious issues I face, but I'm not taking medication and I don't go to a therapist(or the rapist <=look an innuendo, I'm me again!), it would take away my "glow" as one of my Pakistani friends identifies it.

But it doesn't help that a few months after I came out in a cheating way, put a post-it with like a paragraph on the door as I walked out and then left, my father tells me in an extended, not quite a conversation, so I'll call it an interactive lecture, that basically the first things my mother thought were that she had failed as a parent and that my father would divorce her. Of course neither were nor are nor will be true, but still...

[Arachu]

If you keep complimenting me, I might need to get your number, if my wife Lena and Master Shiro let me :P

~ ♅

:smallwink:


And labels? :smallfrown: Hoping I didn't say anything touchy here. If so, I apologize.

I've never seen much wrong with labels. It's a lot faster to read one than it is to sort through all of the box's contents, at any rate. :Shrug:

'Course, a lot of people take them way too seriously and confuse them for definitions... :/


You know like my welcome? :smallfrown: It's because I'm a nerd/white/British cigarette/choir kid/Hispanic(pssh only half so by blood and hip swivel aptitude)/slightly perfectionist isn't it? *runs off crying*

-why do the people not like me? Is it because I'm a horrible person? I know I am. Am I too offensive? I try my best not to be. Is it because I'm a freak? I'm normal I swear!

Oh I'm pathetic when I get depressed, thank God it's only lasted for three hours at a time before I'm back to my happy, flamboyant, inuendo cracking self, and that I never contemplate suicide.

Well anyways so I Have found myself having sexuality issues for about ten minutes a day on average recently. It's not who I am, just things like, why can't I just be normal and like boobs? Things would be so much simpler! But as if that would solve anything. I don't live in the most conservative of houses, but the pressure to conform is decently high

That's nothing; I'm a whole bundle of sticks! :smallcool:

Sorry, couldn't resist. *Hugs* There's not a damn thing wrong with you. Disregard anyone who says otherwise. :<

[Kneenibble]

Oh yeah, Arachu, from the last thread -- about the nail glue -- it's for real real, not for play play. I once had like an inch of thumbnail held on purely by the stuff.

Any drug store. Check it.

[supernerd]

;______;

I crave your bright flames like Morgoth coveted the silmarils.

Don't change.

Well when I'm tired I have normal person energy levels and lose my "glow." I claim that when I'm tired I don't have much energy, so I run on flamboyance, but if I got enough sleep I'd be more than happy to share!

So me and one of my friends are going to put ourselves in spray can and sell it as "Personal Space Away"

Edit: @Arachu thanks *hugs* I forgot to tell you and Heliomance what lovely women you make are.

[golentan]

New thread ahoy!


Have you tried exploring the places on the internet where they have pictures and videos relevant to this? That might help you in determining what you like.

I have. And it's non helpful. Because I enjoy things that I hate watching, and I enjoy watching things that make me go huddle in a corner crying if someone tries them with me.

[Arachu]

Oh yeah, Arachu, from the last thread -- about the nail glue -- it's for real real, not for play play. I once had like an inch of thumbnail held on purely by the stuff.

Any drug store. Check it.

@_@ What is this sorcery.

(It's really too bad I don't have a car (or money, for that matter)... Maybe I should steal a couple of dollars out of the change bucket and get my sis to take me shopping? :haley:)


Well when I'm tired I have normal person energy levels and lose my "glow." I claim that when I'm tired I don't have much energy, so I run on flamboyance, but if I got enough sleep I'd be more than happy to share!

So me and one of my friends are going to put ourselves in spray can and sell it as "Personal Space Away"

Edit: @Arachu thanks *hugs* I forgot to tell you and Heliomance what lovely women you make are.

Could be that you power your flamboyance with some other thing (sugar, perhaps?), though I guess that'd be like saying light bulbs are coal-powered... :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

*Hugs* Thanks. All of these compliments really do mean a lot to me... I've never been called pretty before. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and I forgot - Kneenibble's freakin' handsome. :smallwink:


I have. And it's non helpful. Because I enjoy things that I hate watching, and I enjoy watching things that make me go huddle in a corner crying if someone tries them with me.

I think I have a thing or two like that... I can see where it wouldn't be very helpful. *Hugs*

[Nix Nihila]

Tea, you say? I'm quite a tea enthusiast. Right now I'm drinking a mix of jasmine pearl and peach herbal tea, and it's quite good. It cost me an arm and a leg, but it was worth it.

Tea is indeed quite wonderful. Though you're making me want to brew a cup, and it's 1:30 am, so I really oughtn't.



A disparity between romantic and sexual orientation in non-asexual people is something I can't really understand (especially from personal experience, obviously), but I know it is possible. I just have to wonder how common it is without people realizing it.

It is an interesting thought. I identify as aromantic and heterosexual, but it definitely took me some time before I even realized that that was possible. Love and sex do seem to be tied together quite tightly in a lot of people's minds.



Oh, and I forgot - Kneenibble's freakin' handsome. :smallwink:


Indeed. I must endeavor to ogle and flirt with him more often.

[Asta Kask]

Hello everybody!

Triscuitable, it's good you started a new thread. I was asleep anyway.

*hugs* to everyone, but especially to golentan. It's quite common to fantasize about things we'd never want to go through in RL. That's why it's a fantasy.

[Heliomance]

I guess the proper terms would be asexual and homoromantic (leaning ever-so-slightly towards biromantic),
#totallyreadthatas "bromantic" :smallbiggrin:

Greetings and welcome, O Froggy One!

[Coidzor]

I thought biro-romantic myself.

[Heliomance]

*woke up this morning feeling incredibly girly*
*has the resources to dress how she feels*
*is happy :smallredface:*

*realises that's the first time she's ever used female pronouns about herself*
*is happier*
:redface:

[Caustic Soda]

@Laser Frog: Welcome, feel at home, have an internet-hug *hugs* :smallsmile:


*woke up this morning feeling incredibly girly*
*has the resources to dress how she feels*
*is happy :smallredface:*

*realises that's the first time she's ever used female pronouns about herself*
*is happier*
:redface:

That's adorable :smallbiggrin: Good for you, Heliomance.

[The Succubus]

Wooo! New thread! This time around I won't be so vacuous and irrelevant.

But it's always so elegantly put though....

[Asta Kask]

*woke up this morning feeling incredibly girly*
*has the resources to dress how she feels*
*is happy :smallredface:*

*realises that's the first time she's ever used female pronouns about herself*
*is happier*
:redface:


Good luck and many hugs!

[squidbreath]

Hey I've been wondering, (A) how likely are sexuals to have romantic feelings for peeps they're not sexually attracted to regardless of whether they're part of their preferred gender(s)? (assuming that they're good-looking, but just not someone's bag.)

>e.g. You hear people falling in love over letters and the internet without even knowing their sex / what they look/sound like.

[Heliomance]

I just worked out why I feel slightly weird and uncomfortable using female pronouns about myself, and to a lesser extent hearing other people use them about me, no matter how much I'd like them to.

It doesn't feel like I have the right to them. I feel like an imposter. I can't even claim that I'm a girl who just happens to have the wrong body, because two months ago I felt male to the point where I wasn't comfortable wearing women's clothing anymore. Using and hearing "she" feels like I'm claiming to be something that I'm not, on false pretenses.

Blarg.

[The Underlord]

I'm going to be giving a speech on LGBT rights (marraige and such). Without going into politics, anything you want me to say?

[Asta Kask]

As an ally, I feel that the important thing is this - you do not have to be LGBT to support LGBT. You just have to be a decent human being. This is about treating them as we would like to be treated ourselves, if the roles were reversed.

[Lix Lorn]

Wooo! New thread! This time around I won't be so vacuous and irrelevant.

I can't help myself
Why would we ever want you not to be/to do so?


I just worked out why I feel slightly weird and uncomfortable using female pronouns about myself, and to a lesser extent hearing other people use them about me, no matter how much I'd like them to.

It doesn't feel like I have the right to them. I feel like an imposter. I can't even claim that I'm a girl who just happens to have the wrong body, because two months ago I felt male to the point where I wasn't comfortable wearing women's clothing anymore. Using and hearing "she" feels like I'm claiming to be something that I'm not, on false pretenses.

Blarg.
I'm not sure how to help, so... (hugs)

[Asta Kask]

I just worked out why I feel slightly weird and uncomfortable using female pronouns about myself, and to a lesser extent hearing other people use them about me, no matter how much I'd like them to.

It doesn't feel like I have the right to them. I feel like an imposter. I can't even claim that I'm a girl who just happens to have the wrong body, because two months ago I felt male to the point where I wasn't comfortable wearing women's clothing anymore. Using and hearing "she" feels like I'm claiming to be something that I'm not, on false pretenses.

Blarg.

Why do you care where you was two months ago? It's where you are now that matters, isn't it? Getting somewhere with your emotions may take time and require a lot of work, but it can be done.

[Heliomance]

Why do you care where you was two months ago? It's where you are now that matters, isn't it? Getting somewhere with your emotions may take time and require a lot of work, but it can be done.

Because it'll likely change again. I can't say "this is who I've always been, I'm only now realising it," because I haven't. It feels like my very existence is validating the "it's just a phase" argument. How do I have the right to lay claim to female pronouns and a female identiy if in two months time I might be back to being male?

[Serpentine]

A disparity between romantic and sexual orientation in non-asexual people is something I can't really understand (especially from personal experience, obviously), but I know it is possible. I just have to wonder how common it is without people realizing it.Hmmm... Now that you mention it, I wonder if I might be bi/pansexual and heteromantic...
*ponders*

(I'm not likely to incorporate it as part of my identity or anything (I'm quite fond of "heteroflexible" :smallwink:), but it's an interesting thing to think about)

Hey I've been wondering, (A) how likely are sexuals to have romantic feelings for peeps they're not sexually attracted to regardless of whether they're part of their preferred gender(s)? (assuming that they're good-looking, but just not someone's bag.)

>e.g. You hear people falling in love over letters and the internet without even knowing their sex / what they look/sound like.Hmmm... It's hard to describe, but for me I'd say that sexual attraction is a big part of the development of romantic feelings, but the development of romantic feelings can influence my sexual attraction.
I mean... someone I'm not immediately physically attracted to has an initial disadvantage when it comes to my being interested in them. However, if I find them really attractive non-physically, then their appearance/bodies will become more attractive to me. Does that make sense?

[Asta Kask]

Because it'll likely change again. I can't say "this is who I've always been, I'm only now realising it," because I haven't. It feels like my very existence is validating the "it's just a phase" argument. How do I have the right to lay claim to female pronouns and a female identiy if in two months time I might be back to being male?

Because gender identity can be fluid. And when you change back, you have a right to male clothes. Anyway, what do you mean "you don't have the right"? According to whom? Why should you care what ze says? And if you're saying it to yourself, examine that feeling, because there's a thought hiding there. And it's usually something like "With regard to this, I don't have the right to be happy." Screw that.

[Triscuitable]

Because it'll likely change again. I can't say "this is who I've always been, I'm only now realising it," because I haven't. It feels like my very existence is validating the "it's just a phase" argument. How do I have the right to lay claim to female pronouns and a female identiy if in two months time I might be back to being male?

Because for now, you are. You've painted a portrait in your image, and just like any artist, you can paint a new coat over the parts you don't like. Life is about experiences and changes, and quite frankly, you've put a lot into this. If you feel like it's time to stop, nobody has that power but you.

I've never been able to feel like I was a man, or a woman. If I had problems, I'd make a DnD character in the spirit of who I felt I should be, if only for a short time.

[Astrella]

@Helio: Maybe you're genderfluid? I know this probably sounds a bit stupid considering it is a hugely confusing matter; but maybe try to just go with how you feel at the moment and not worry too much about the rest?

-----

Therapist meeting tomorrow; sorta nervous...

[Laser Frog]

I just realized I haven't given any good indication of my gender, but (almost?) everyone just assumes I'm a guy off the bat. :smallamused: Do I just give off that vibe?

I may be backtracking in this thread, but my internet conked out last night, so...


Be welcome, and discourse your inclinations as much as you like good sir. I, for one, will be standing right here, ready to harass serious discussion with crude innuendos and attempts at empathy as graceful as a featherless baby bird's first steps outside the nest.
This paragraph is so majestic and fabulous that I may cry. And it's made even better by that awesome Avatar you have. I am in awe, good sir, and I thank you.


I've never seen much wrong with labels. It's a lot faster to read one than it is to sort through all of the box's contents, at any rate. :Shrug:

'Course, a lot of people take them way too seriously and confuse them for definitions... :/
So true. So, so true. People are uncomfortably likely to assume a ton of things about you if you make any claim whatsoever about yourself. I've become an expert at ignoring when people do that to me, but it can still be really tiresome.


It is an interesting thought. I identify as aromantic and heterosexual, but it definitely took me some time before I even realized that that was possible. Love and sex do seem to be tied together quite tightly in a lot of people's minds.
And that viewpoint of "love=sex=love" really bothers me. I mean, people being aware that they feel that way is all well and good, but it seems like the majority of people cannot make that distinction. Perhaps I'm just cynical. No wait, I'm definitely cynical, and this is my cynicism speaking. That explains it.


#totallyreadthatas "bromantic" :smallbiggrin:

Greetings and welcome, O Froggy One!
I do enjoy a good bromance, even though my most meaningful one right now is with a guy who's grody to the max, dude. [/'80s kid] But we've been friends for years, so I'm used to it.

Maybe that's a cue that I should spell it "bi-romantic", even though that creates a rather inconsistent spelling and/or hyphen usage that may slowly drive me bonkers. :smallwink:


I thought biro-romantic myself.
What does that even mean? I say if there's no definition, there totally should be one.

Now on the topic of developing an attraction to people, I've found that my physical/romantic perception of guys has changed once I get to know them, and sometimes significantly. However, it's only seemed to happen with guys I've thought were cute, but wound up disliking and gradually found repulsive. I've never thought someone was attractive after thinking they weren't attractive at first, but then getting to know them better and finding out they've got a great personality. I'm not giving up on the possibility, but again, it's never happened to date. So yes, I must be shallow without realizing the extent of it. :smalltongue:

[Heliomance]

@Helio: Maybe you're genderfluid? I know this probably sounds a bit stupid considering it is a hugely confusing matter; but maybe try to just go with how you feel at the moment and not worry too much about the rest?

Yeah, I already worked that one out. Most irritating of gender identities, why can't I just stick with one? I don't even mind what!


I just realized I haven't given any good indication of my gender, but (almost?) everyone just assumes I'm a guy off the bat. :smallamused: Do I just give off that vibe?

There are no girls on the Internet. Everyone is male until proven otherwise.

[noparlpf]

Because it'll likely change again. I can't say "this is who I've always been, I'm only now realising it," because I haven't. It feels like my very existence is validating the "it's just a phase" argument. How do I have the right to lay claim to female pronouns and a female identity if in two months time I might be back to being male?

For genderfluid people, it is just a phase. So there's no problem with that. And if a bigot is going to think that you're proof that transsexuality is just a phase, they probably wouldn't believe in genderfluidity or transsexuality being real things in the first place, so it's not your fault.

[Laser Frog]

There are no girls on the Internet. Everyone is male until proven otherwise.
I know where all the girls are on the internet. They're on forum RPGs, especially those set in the Sailor Mooniverse. Seriously, on those it's the other way around; female until proven otherwise.

ETA: I should also add that this includes Avatar: The Last Airbender RPGs too, mainly because Zuko is apparently hawt. Obviously.

[Qaera]

Tumblr is full of girls. It's pretty nice. :smalltongue:

~ ♅

[Viera Champion]

Tumblr is full of girls. It's pretty nice. :smalltongue:

~ ♅

Not for me its not. All the lesbians on Tumblr idolize my friend, but there aren't gay guys to idolize me.

[Heliomance]

So what is your gender then, Froggy? :smallamused:

[Mina Kobold]

I know where all the girls are on the internet. They're on forum RPGs, especially those set in the Sailor Mooniverse. Seriously, on those it's the other way around; female until proven otherwise.

ETA: I should also add that this includes Avatar: The Last Airbender RPGs too, mainly because Zuko is apparently hawt. Obviously.

Zuko is a Firebender, so that seems quite reasonable. :3

And once you're finished throwing my dinner rotten tomatoes at me, I will say that I personally do find Zuko cute, but Ty Lee is a strong contender for most adorable human character on Avatar. :smallsmile:

...

I think I broke the record on getting sidetracked faster than humanly possible. Sorry. :smallredface:


So what is your gender then, Froggy? :smallamused:

Obviously it's Frog! Just like mine is Kobold! :3

And no, logic does not have a say here. I bribed it with Math Cookies. :smallamused::smalltongue:

Although, a laser frog might be one of the frog species that can change sex. Woudl certainly explain why they used that genetic material for Jurassic Park. Laser Tyrannosaura! X3

[supernerd]

I'm going to be giving a speech on LGBT rights (marraige and such). Without going into politics, anything you want me to say?

Dude same! I just piled up some stuff from the last two threads and some stuff I found on my own.

[Laser Frog]

So what is your gender then, Froggy? :smallamused:
"Male....Female...what does it matter? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power!"

...Okay, enough geekery from me.

Anywaaay...the rebel in me wants to keep the gender semi-ambiguity going as long as I can, but my boring and practical side won out. I'm a cis male, though I often feel apathetic about my whole gender identity anyway. Regardless of that, I identify and present as a man, so a man I am.


Zuko is a Firebender, so that seems quite reasonable. :3
*facepalm* I walked right into that one, didn't I?

Also, I think I lost track of your whole post within a few sentences. My general reaction was a collective "what".

[Heliomance]

"Male....Female...what does it matter? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power!"


You're a frog, not a flea :smallconfused:

[Lix Lorn]

This paragraph is so majestic and fabulous that I may cry. And it's made even better by that awesome Avatar you have. I am in awe, good sir, and I thank you.
Kneenibble is good at that. xD Welcome!

[Mina Kobold]

Also, I think I lost track of your whole post within a few sentences. My general reaction was a collective "what".

It's the usual reaction to me. just keep the part about logic and "not having a say" in mind and keep an eye on your SAN score. :3


You're a frog, not a flea :smallconfused:

Maybe Laser ate a flea and gained the power from it!

[Arachu]

*woke up this morning feeling incredibly girly*
*has the resources to dress how she feels*
*is happy :smallredface:*

*realises that's the first time she's ever used female pronouns about herself*
*is happier*
:redface:

Lucky. I still need to make that skirt I was talking about a few threads back. :smalltongue:

I remember the first time I used feminine pronouns without thinking about it - it's so weird, isn't it? :smallbiggrin:


Hey I've been wondering, (A) how likely are sexuals to have romantic feelings for peeps they're not sexually attracted to regardless of whether they're part of their preferred gender(s)? (assuming that they're good-looking, but just not someone's bag.)

>e.g. You hear people falling in love over letters and the internet without even knowing their sex / what they look/sound like.

Well, I'd say it's a lot more likely if you count the Internet (wonderful place, that Internet :smalltongue:). Then again, it's probably (no, definitely) more common than people think, considering how close a lot of friends get.


I just worked out why I feel slightly weird and uncomfortable using female pronouns about myself, and to a lesser extent hearing other people use them about me, no matter how much I'd like them to.

It doesn't feel like I have the right to them. I feel like an imposter. I can't even claim that I'm a girl who just happens to have the wrong body, because two months ago I felt male to the point where I wasn't comfortable wearing women's clothing anymore. Using and hearing "she" feels like I'm claiming to be something that I'm not, on false pretenses.

Blarg.

*Hugs* If you really feel that you're female, you are. Even if it does shift back, you have every right to present as who you are (or rather, the part of you who you happen to be at the moment).

I had similar concerns, but for different reasons... I grew to respect transpeople for all of the adversities we face. I actually felt like I wasn't 'worthy' to identify as one. That doesn't make terribly much sense thinking back, but I was preoccupied with how horrifying it meant my childhood was... :/


Therapist meeting tomorrow; sorta nervous...

*Hugs* I'm sure things'll work out great. :smallsmile:


ETA: I should also add that this includes Avatar: The Last Airbender RPGs too, mainly because Zuko is apparently hawt. Obviously.

I gotta say, after his hairstyle change... (I'm a sucker for scars) :smalltongue: :smallwink:


Not for me its not. All the lesbians on Tumblr idolize my friend, but there aren't gay guys to idolize me.

*Sighs*
*Pops shoulders*
*Dons old denim jacket*
*Works hair into ponytail*

*Cough* All hail Shiro, King of the Gays! :smalltongue:

[noparlpf]

"Male....Female...what does it matter? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power!"

...Okay, enough geekery from me.

Anywaaay...the rebel in me wants to keep the gender semi-ambiguity going as long as I can, but my boring and practical side won out. I'm a cis male, though I often feel apathetic about my whole gender identity anyway. Regardless of that, I identify and present as a man, so a man I am.

I assumed male because you said "gay". Usually that means male.
And yeah, the apathy towards one's gender is a common thing for cissexual people. It wasn't until I started coming here and took a Gender Studies class that I stopped taking my gender for granted.

[Viera Champion]

*Sighs*
*Pops shoulders*
*Dons old denim jacket*
*Works hair into ponytail*

*Cough* All hail Shiro, King of the Gays! :smalltongue:

Now that's more like it.:smallwink:

[Heliomance]

A friend of mine just henna'd my hand. Pics when it's dry! :smallsmile:

[Triscuitable]

You're a frog, not a flea :smallconfused:

Wait, we're making Chrono Trigger jokes now? Flea is one of my favorite bosses, after all. And in the original PAL game, Flea is very drag, but male.

[supernerd]

Vote Shiro for Benevolent Dictator!

[DabblerWizard]

Ah yes. Romance and sex. Fun topics.

It makes a lot of sense to distinguish romantic interest from sexual interest when a person is asexual. I imagine some folks would believe that a person who doesn't have sexual interest can't possibly have romantic interests, which of course is silly.

Then again, some people use the word 'romantic' as a euphemism for sexual activity, period. Personally, I use it to mean a deep sexual and emotional connection.

Laser Frog, I assume you use 'romantic' to mean deep emotional connections, sans the sex?

I've met some bisexual cis-gender men, who identify themselves as sexually attracted to both sexes, but who say they are only emotionally interested in one or the other (usually only towards women). Some of those men have believed it's not possible for them to fall in love with a guy, or prefer to invest emotionally in a relationship that involves less social stigma.

That's the only case I've experienced, where sexually-inclined people have differentiated between interest in sex and emotional connection.

[Heliomance]

A friend of mine just henna'd my hand. Pics when it's dry! :smallsmile:

Sadly, it didn't come out very well. OTOH, I've painted my nails :)

[Elfinor]

Meatspace life is getting busy so here I am, procrastinating again:smalltongue:
Because it'll likely change again. I can't say "this is who I've always been, I'm only now realising it," because I haven't. It feels like my very existence is validating the "it's just a phase" argument. How do I have the right to lay claim to female pronouns and a female identiy if in two months time I might be back to being male? Then that's OK:smallconfused:?

Born this way rant I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'.

I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting:smallfrown:. But I hope it all goes well.

[Laser Frog]

It's the usual reaction to me. just keep the part about logic and "not having a say" in mind and keep an eye on your SAN score. :3



Maybe Laser ate a flea and gained the power from it!
I wouldn't have it any other way. :smallbiggrin:

And does this mean I'm a Kirby frog now? Excellent. I'm just not sure how I feel about eating creatures that drink blood. I'm neurotic enough that I'd start wondering if the fleas would start sucking blood from the inside, which doesn't seem impossible considering how tough those little monsters are to kill. :smallannoyed:


I assumed male because you said "gay". Usually that means male.
And yeah, the apathy towards one's gender is a common thing for cissexual people. It wasn't until I started coming here and took a Gender Studies class that I stopped taking my gender for granted.
Good catch. :smallwink:

I didn't know that about the gender apathy with cissexual people, and that's interesting. Is it more common among gay/bi cis people than it is with straight ones? Is said "apathy" more than that? More like an assured feeling about one's own gender? Hmm, now you've got me thinking.


Wait, we're making Chrono Trigger jokes now? Flea is one of my favorite bosses, after all. And in the original PAL game, Flea is very drag, but male.
Me too! I liked that whole trio. I even had three stuffed animals I named after them; Slash was a hot pink jaguar/leopard (or some kind of cat with spots, I dunno), Flea was a hot pink cockatoo, and Ozzie was a penguin. I'm sure there was some kind of logic behind that, but I've long since forgotten why those particular stuffed animals got those names.

[Lady Serpentine]

I wish I


Had finished typing what you were thinking? :smalltongue:

[Viera Champion]

So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.

[Mono Vertigo]

For genderfluid people, it is just a phase. So there's no problem with that. And if a bigot is going to think that you're proof that transsexuality is just a phase, they probably wouldn't believe in genderfluidity or transsexuality being real things in the first place, so it's not your fault.
Yeah, the only real problem with genderfluidity would be in the case where irreversible treatments (surgery, etc) are undertaken. That's a waste of time, money, and possibly more just to end up back in square one, and without the possibility to go back.
The thing though is that I honestly don't think anyone genderfluid would manage to avoid thinking about their own identity, take HRT, and undergo surgery, only to complain about having made the wrong choice and feeling like they're their gender assigned at birth after all.



Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.

[golentan]

I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'. I wish I

I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting:smallfrown:. But I hope it all goes well.

I've said almost this exact thing in the past. Whether or not something is natural or voluntary doesn't affect whether it's tangibly harmful to other human beings. We wouldn't accept murder if murderers had no choice in their action, and we wouldn't condemn left handedness if it was purely optional. At least, most of us wouldn't these days. I wish I could say the same for previous generations of humans.

[Elfinor]

Had finished typing what you were thinking? :smalltongue: 'had gotten some more sleep'?:smalltongue:

I'll edit it out...

EDIT: I think I was halfway through quoting a flying japanese cat. Blame Yora.

[golentan]

I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'. I wish I

I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting:smallfrown:. But I hope it all goes well.

I've said almost this exact thing in the past. Whether or not something is natural or voluntary doesn't affect whether it's tangibly harmful to other human beings. We wouldn't accept murder if murderers had no choice in their action, and we wouldn't condemn left handedness if it was purely optional. At least, most of us wouldn't these days. I wish I could say the same for previous generations of humans.

[Arachu]

Sadly, it didn't come out very well. OTOH, I've painted my nails :)

Ooh, what color(s) did you do? :smallsmile:


Born this way rant I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'. I wish I

I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting:smallfrown:. But I hope it all goes well.

I have to say I agree. I'm pretty sure I was born with my gender (or that I developed it really early on), but that doesn't mean it's somehow more 'natural' or 'valid' than anyone else's. The whole argument is founded on the premise that we're somehow different than straight/cisgendered people just for having different qualities.

Besides, the implication that one 'can't choose' bothers me almost as much as the one that implies that you have to choose. What exactly makes the third option so distasteful?


So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.

:smallsigh: Several things are wrong with that. :smallannoyed:

Good to hear he was so brave about it, though. *Hugs* to both of you.


Yeah, the only real problem with genderfluidity would be in the case where irreversible treatments (surgery, etc) are undertaken. That's a waste of time, money, and possibly more just to end up back in square one, and without the possibility to go back.
The thing though is that I honestly don't think anyone genderfluid would manage to avoid thinking about their own identity, take HRT, and undergo surgery, only to complain about having made the wrong choice and feeling like they're their gender assigned at birth after all.

I heard of someone who had multiple operations once. S/he (not sure which one applies most recently) was a world-record-holder in about 2002 or so (though the record itself was probably given earlier than that). I don't know anything else, though. :shrug:


Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.

*Hugs* If it helps, I respect you. You're very supportive and well-spoken.

[Laser Frog]

Ah yes. Romance and sex. Fun topics.

It makes a lot of sense to distinguish romantic interest from sexual interest when a person is asexual. I imagine some folks would believe that a person who doesn't have sexual interest can't possibly have romantic interests, which of course is silly.

Then again, some people use the word 'romantic' as a euphemism for sexual activity, period. Personally, I use it to mean a deep sexual and emotional connection.

Laser Frog, I assume you use 'romantic' to mean deep emotional connections, sans the sex?

I've met some bisexual cis-gender men, who identify themselves as sexually attracted to both sexes, but who say they are only emotionally interested in one or the other (usually only towards women). Some of those men have believed it's not possible for them to fall in love with a guy, or prefer to invest emotionally in a relationship that involves less social stigma.

That's the only case I've experienced, where sexually-inclined people have differentiated between interest in sex and emotional connection.
Yes, I do mean "romantic" to refer to an emotional connection completely independant of sex. Now I'm no stranger to checking out cute guys or even flirting/teasing (the latter more so than the former), and I can waste plenty of time on Tumblr looking at pics of guys just cuz they're sexy. My attraction to women, although rare, only happens when I meet an attractive girl in person (I blame pheromones). Otherwise I tend to appreciate female beauty in a more aesthetic or artistic sense. Ultimately it's their personality that determines whether I seriously want to be with someone or not.

Being the type who's usually uncomfortable with making physical contact, things like holding hands, cuddling, etc. can be a pretty big deal in my mind. Things beyond that just don't interest me in the slightest, and on some days they even gross me out slightly.

Now most people would assume that sort of thing stems from deep-seated emotional, physical, or sexual trauma, but trust me, that is not the case. It has put a strain on my love life, as you can probably imagine, but I'm honestly happier being true to myself and not trying to force myself to enjoy something I don't.


So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
That seriously a bummer that he was being bullied and the homophobes didn't get what they deserved, but is it weird that I find that whole situation oddly cute/romantic? He only got heated up under the collar when they were insulting you, but he was willing to sit there and take it when it was only about him. Forgive me; my mind works in strange ways.

[noparlpf]

I wouldn't have it any other way. :smallbiggrin:

And does this mean I'm a Kirby frog now? Excellent. I'm just not sure how I feel about eating creatures that drink blood. I'm neurotic enough that I'd start wondering if the fleas would start sucking blood from the inside, which doesn't seem impossible considering how tough those little monsters are to kill. :smallannoyed:

I've always wanted to be a Kirby. Best games ever.


Good catch. :smallwink:

I didn't know that about the gender apathy with cissexual people, and that's interesting. Is it more common among gay/bi cis people than it is with straight ones? Is said "apathy" more than that? More like an assured feeling about one's own gender? Hmm, now you've got me thinking.

I'd guess that it's less common among gay and bi cissexual people because they're often in the same civil rights groups as transsexual folks. Because of that, they would tend to be more aware of gender as a thing.
The reason most cissexual people are apathetic towards their genders is because there's no reason to care about it. It matches their genitals, so it never stuck out to them as something to take note of.
For the record, I'm an asexual cisman. (Though I dunno if "man" applies yet; I'm not even eighteen until next month, let alone a grown-up.)


Yeah, the only real problem with genderfluidity would be in the case where irreversible treatments (surgery, etc) are undertaken. That's a waste of time, money, and possibly more just to end up back in square one, and without the possibility to go back.
The thing though is that I honestly don't think anyone genderfluid would manage to avoid thinking about their own identity, take HRT, and undergo surgery, only to complain about having made the wrong choice and feeling like they're their gender assigned at birth after all.



Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.

:smallsigh:
I just wish everybody would accept everybody else. Failing that, I wish oppressed groups would accept other oppressed groups, using that empathy and sympathy stuff that humans have*, and would accept support from "non-minorities" or whatever, like cissexual people, or whites, or whatever, instead of saying they're all part of the big Evil "Them".
Hey, I'm a white cismale. I'm not openly gay, so I'm assumed to be straight. (Not that claiming asexuality gets me far in a lot of places. I'm clearly just repressing my straight/gay.) And guess what? I'm a feminist and an ally. (And also just generally a humanist, not that that's a word that's used much, and probably doesn't mean what I'm using it to mean even if it does have an official definition.)

*(It amuses me that the comment about empathy is coming from me, seeing as I have an Asperger's diagnosis; one of the things we're diagnosed for is a deficiency in innate empathy, i.e., the ability to interpret others' feelings.)

[The Underlord]

Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.
I feel for you, being a cisgendered white straight male myself. Why do they have issues with other people advocating for them? Granted, my main problem , being in Texas, will probably be people assuming I am gay because I advocate for LGBT and I can say the word 'gay" without saying something hateful or mean in the same sentence(I am not exaggerating much here). Thankfully, most my friends either are mildly in favor of LGBT rights and such, or just plain don't care what other people do, because it's their business, not his or her business.

[Heliomance]

Ooh, what color(s) did you do? :smallsmile:



Damson Jam, apparently. It's a deep purplish red.

[Coidzor]

Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.

Sadly, as was shown by the experiences of our current favorite blogger, being Trans or Gay or Feminist, or any such label or identity, does not automatically make one not an idiot, flaming or otherwise, or do anything about the seeds of hatred that may dwell within a person's heart.

[supernerd]

Born this way rant I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'.

I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting:smallfrown:. But I hope it all goes well.

Well if it's all the same, my best friend made me promise to have sex with a woman at least once, just to make sure. But I'd probably have to be a threeway so A I can get it up, and B *sings song*


So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.

God d*mn it! I hate it when that kind of stuff happens! But at least he got out unharmed, not to say anything about the words they said.


That seriously a bummer that he was being bullied and the homophobes didn't get what they deserved, but is it weird that I find that whole situation oddly cute/romantic? He only got heated up under the collar when they were insulting you, but he was willing to sit there and take it when it was only about him. Forgive me; my mind works in strange ways.

Well I was thinking the same way... I thought it was cute how he stood up for his Mizz Mitchell. (again with semi-making fun of Shiro, well it's probably just jealousy... *Darren Criss song starts*)

In other news, Matt Bomer was my fourth celebrity crush, but when I found out he was gay, he went up a place due to my d'aw-ing, behind D Criss and NPH. I wonder if I should invoke rule 34... Or 61 (46 in the 47 rules version), you know, if you like that stuff.

[Mutant Sheep]

So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.
:smallfrown: Sorry your boyfriend had to go through that. It is really sweet that once they insulted you he chewed them out though. :smallredface:

It's weird they faced no punishment, but hopefully they'll learn an important lesson about love and gender from it anyways. :smallsmile:

[turkishproverb]

So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.

*hugs very very tightly* Aside from "This was bad" i can't say too much of what i'm thinking right now on the board, so I'll just say that I hope things get better there for you.

Remember, you two aren't the problem.

[Astrella]

"Male....Female...what does it matter? Power is beautiful, and I've got the power!"

Chrono Trigger! <3

Also, I don't think I've said hi yet, so, uhmm... Hi!


Lucky. I still need to make that skirt I was talking about a few threads back. :smalltongue:

I remember the first time I used feminine pronouns without thinking about it - it's so weird, isn't it? :smallbiggrin:

You should make it~

Heh, I sometimes have to do a double-take in public and a make sure I refer to myself in the "proper" way. >.>


I had similar concerns, but for different reasons... I grew to respect transpeople for all of the adversities we face. I actually felt like I wasn't 'worthy' to identify as one. That doesn't make terribly much sense thinking back, but I was preoccupied with how horrifying it meant my childhood was... :/[/COLOR]

It was sorta odd for me; I figured out my gender stuff mostly through talking with a genderqueer friend; me identifying as a girl sorta felt like a "betrayal" or something I shouldn't, as opposed to being genderqueer. (I thought this way; she's been super supportive all through and helped me get over those feelings.)


*Hugs* I'm sure things'll work out great. :smallsmile:

Thank you. :smallsmile:


Meatspace life is getting busy so here I am, procrastinating again:smalltongue: Then that's OK:smallconfused:?

Born this way rant I find the 'born this way' movement a little offensive, personally. The hatred and slander I heard (but mostly read) from LGBT people against Cynthia Nixon (who said that she had experienced male and female relationships, and chose to be a lesbian) was disgusting. She even explicitly stated that some people were born this way, but she was not. The most common comment types that I saw/heard were 'that's not helpful' and 'you'll never understand my pain!'.

I think 'born this way' is an acceptance crutch that people need to get rid of. It implies that we predetermined destiny once we pop out, and simply enables bigotry against a smaller minority - people who change over the course their lives. Identifying as another gender isn't wrong, whether you were born that way, been that way since puberty, choose it or just one day find it suits you the best.

If the biphobia I've experienced is any indication, you might experience some bigotry from the people who should be the most accepting:smallfrown:. But I hope it all goes well.

It's problematic, yes. I feel it's sorta vilifying; in a "this is a problem we have, but we can't help it" sorta way. The what's and why someone is queer should have nothing to do with acceptance. People have agency over their own lives; nothing queer folk do harms anyone; thus there is no reason not to accept them and treat them equally.


Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.
Sorry, but I needed to let go some steam.

While bigotry against white, cisgender, etc... isn't institutionalized on levels like sexism, homophobia and such; but that doesn't mean you can't be hateful towards these groups... :/

I think that's a problem with minorities in general; because they were discriminated against they think they can't engage is -isms. :smallannoyed:
(I've seen trans-bigotry, ace-bigotry coming from LGB, biphobia, trans supremacists, etc... )

I like having you around in the thread though. :c

And I'm really sorry about the whole argument last time...


So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.

Ugh, that's horrible. :/

[Asta Kask]

So um... My boyfriend was cornered today in his catholic school, and apparently some pretty nasty things were said to him, but he just sat there and took it until they started saying rude things about me. At that point he started violently cursing at them, which shut them up. He did not get in trouble, but neither did the homophobes.

It happens. And if it's not because he's gay it's because something else. It was sweet of him to defend you, though; you're lucky to have each other.

[Arachu]

Well if it's all the same, my best friend made me promise to have sex with a woman at least once, just to make sure. But I'd probably have to be a threeway so A I can get it up, and B *sings song*

I was never too fond of that "testing" thing - it sort of makes sense if you're questioning, but it's not like you can't tell whether you're attracted to someone just because they're wearing pants. :smallsigh:

Honestly, I think you should take the promise back if you feel you'd be uncomfortable with it. I almost want to say you should even if you're okay with it, just because he made you promise it (I mean, that's so rude!). :/

If you are comfortable with it, though, there (hopefully) shouldn't be any harm in it. Even if the experiment proves what you already know, it could still be pretty awesome. :sabine:


You should make it~

Heh, I sometimes have to do a double-take in public and a make sure I refer to myself in the "proper" way. >.>

Yes I should... :smallbiggrin:

I haven't actually had much trouble compartmentalizing (that may just be because I don't talk much in boymode), but I do have to go to great lengths to act like people who call me a girl aren't accidentally flattering me. :smalltongue:


It was sorta odd for me; I figured out my gender stuff mostly through talking with a genderqueer friend; me identifying as a girl sorta felt like a "betrayal" or something I shouldn't. (I thought this way; she's been super supportive all through and helped me get over those feelings.)

Gah, I had something like that too... I actually felt like I was betraying the genitals I already had (it makes... About as much sense in context). There wasn't any denying it when I started noticing how weird it feels, though... :/

(Sorry about that, I've been having trouble figuring out something else lately. :Shrug:)

Anyway, could you be so kind as to send some *hugs* to your friend from me? It's good to know you have someone to help you. :smallsmile:


It's problematic, yes. I feel it's sorta vilifying; in a "this is a problem we have, but we can't help it" sorta way. The what's and why someone is queer should have nothing to do with acceptance. People have agency over their own lives; nothing queer folk do harms anyone; thus there is no reason not to accept them and treat them equally.

True. It sounds almost like claiming that it's a condition instead of a simple state of being. :/

Besides, I prefer the line "we're here, we're queer - get over it!". :roach:

[golentan]

It happens. And if it's not because he's gay it's because something else. It was sweet of him to defend you, though; you're lucky to have each other.

Pretty much this. I'm still of the opinion that everyone should be locked in an institution shortly before puberty and only let out when they've demonstrated capacity for empathy again.

[Lyesmith]

I think the general up-itself-ness of the queer community online is one of the reasons to avoid bits of it. Being LGBTQAwhatever does not mean that you can't be petty, shallow, stupid and attention-seeking, and it certainly isn't a total morality embargo.

I've seen a lot of the behaviour Musashi ranted about, and yeah, it is a bit endemic in places. Shame, really.

[Astrella]

[COLOR="Navy"]I haven't actually had much trouble compartmentalizing (that may just be because I don't talk much in boymode), but I do have to go to great lengths to act like people who call me a girl aren't accidentally flattering me. :smalltongue:

It's sorta awkward sometimes because I second-guess myself doubly sometimes. I used to get bullied for being "girly" in mannerisms but they're starting to shine through again a bit which makes me self-conscious as to not draw overly attention. (Likely me overreaction, but.. )


Gah, I had something like that too... I actually felt like I was betraying the genitals I already had (it makes... About as much sense in context). There wasn't any denying it when I started noticing how weird it feels, though... :/

Anyway, could you be so kind as to send some *hugs* to your friend from me? It's good to know you have someone to help you. :smallsmile:

Well; I meant more in a "identifying as a girl means I'm holding onto gender stereotypes and the like; I should be genderqueer" sorta way.

I'm lucky that I have a pretty supportive group of online friends. :smallsmile:

-----

And at least it made me realize why I like Mulan so much. Reflection is a song that just rings so true. :smallfrown: :smallsmile:

Also, essential linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g) with regards to people being asses.

[squidbreath]

Hmmm... It's hard to describe, but for me I'd say that sexual attraction is a big part of the development of romantic feelings, but the development of romantic feelings can influence my sexual attraction.


(eh, me too :smallsmile:)You think that's a bit like demi-sexuals with what wiki says to be secondary sexual attraction, or just part of the idealization process?
-

Unrelated rant incoming:
Maybe I'm spending too much time in all the wrong places on the Internet, or maybe these places are slowly invading the space I used to frequent, but I'm seriously facing issues with several communities; specifically those that promote political correctness and safe space for minorities/oppressed groups.
There isn't a single day I spend without learning over and over again that because I'm a member of a privileged group (white and cisgender), my opinion is absolutely invalid.
That -ism (racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc) is a combination of power and I forgot the second part, and therefore, that there isn't such a thing as a -ist insult/treatment against white/cisgender people, anywhere.
That it's absolutely not okay to use various words that can possibly insult oppressed groups, but that it's perfectly okay to tell someone "lol you're such a [possible nickname for Richard]/[biscuit Polly often wants]".
That women alone need protection, but that men should endure misandrist insults toward them - sorry, I forgot misandry doesn't exist - and that the same goes for cisgender people and such.
That as long as I'm member of a single privileged group, I deserve the dismissal and insults.
That my personal story shouldn't matter, and that even if the worse I ever did was using a bad word once in good faith - and accepting to change my vocabulary once I learn why it's bad, if I'm even told why this specific word is bad - the rest of the community can treat me badly.

I am getting angry. Not at any group, or even at any particular person. But I am tired of that attitude.
I'm feeling more and more that, being asexual - in a particular fashion that makes me appear as straight today - I don't exactly count in the big group of LGBTQ+ people. Maybe I'm just an ally who deludes herself. Perhaps there isn't such a thing as demisexuals, and I'm just extremely picky and awkward. After all, I'm not being oppressed because of that, just annoyed in various ways that straight ciswomen generally are.
But that is not a part of myself I wanted to question. I feel like that questioning only comes because of my frustration.

Look, I don't pretend I can speak in the name of any community that isn't asexual. I never did. But I'd like some respect. The same respect I'm giving to anyone else. Of course, I'm cissplaining/whitesplaining, so of course I'm seeing the world from a privileged point of view...
[Bovine excrement]. I don't need to be treated like [REDACTED]. Yesterday alone, several Jewish kids and their teacher were killed gruesomely for reasons that are very probably racist. The murderer killed other people the week before, people that were considered "foreigners" by bigots. The murderer is still around, and though the chances are very small I risk anything, he still killed people who shared my ancestry, just because they existed. Oh, I'm white, my opinion on everything is invalid? I don't know, that sounded quite like oppression. Oh, but I'm still cisgender. That still invalids a bunch of stuff I say.

Whatever happens, I'm not going to let my frustration devolve into hate. We all deserve respect for what and who we are, as long as our acts are equally deserving of respect. I'm still supporting LGBTQ+ issues even if it turns out I'm not actually part of it. Oh, I know LGBTQ+ people don't need my help or approval. Nobody friggin' needs it. I'm not here to empower anyone. I just love you guys, yes, every single of you in that thread, and others, too.
What I just want is a little respect. Spouting more hate in reaction to hate won't help anything. It never did. One party has to act civilized and understanding to stop the circle of hate, and I'm not sure we can count on the white, cisgender, straight and/or male majority for this.


Ouch. It's weird, last I heard, anything anti-white was being called reverse racism like it's completely different. I love the way you censored it, although...what's that one about Polly's biscuits? *is dumb

[supernerd]

I was never too fond of that "testing" thing - it sort of makes sense if you're questioning, but it's not like you can't tell whether you're attracted to someone just because they're wearing pants. :smallsigh:

Honestly, I think you should take the promise back if you feel you'd be uncomfortable with it. I almost want to say you should even if you're okay with it, just because he made you promise it (I mean, that's so rude!). :/

If you are comfortable with it, though, there (hopefully) shouldn't be any harm in it. Even if the experiment proves what you already know, it could still be pretty awesome. :sabine:

Well no offense to the females on this forum, I find the concept of a vagina to be disgusting, so yeah, but she didn't mean any harm by it. She believes she is straight, but apparently will be finding out in college...

[Mono Vertigo]

Thanks for letting me rant last night, everyone. That's an issue I'm seeing more and more, and obviously, it's not something I can discuss at these places. Beside, I'm only lurking in these comms, in part because I know I will eventually say something that angers/offends people without even realizing it. :smallfrown::smallannoyed:
Feh. I keep ranting about egocentric issues instead of contributing to the conversation. I'm glad I at least managed to stay semi-coherent and civil. Too many censored words too, and I struggled not to write more swears I'd have to censor anyway. I swear like I use proper punctuation, it's terrible!



I like having you around in the thread though. :c

And I'm really sorry about the whole argument last time...


Aww. Thank you very much. :smallfrown::smallredface: *hugs*
Don't worry about it. It's mostly forgotten, and that was not even the kind of situation I was ranting about. That one was an exceptional discussion that allowed everyone to give their opinion, even though it got heated. I'm talking about casual displays of hate that disallow all feedback due to some weird kind of logical loop.


I love the way you censored it, although...what's that one about Polly's biscuits? *is dumb
"Polly wants a cracker!"
In those same places, I learnt cracker was a derogatory term for white people, probably in reference to the cracking of whips of slave owners, something like that... I didn't see a definitive explanation beside "it's directed at white people".






@ Lil Shiro: I'm really glad he didn't get in trouble, he got lucky there. I know school enjoys punishing victim as much, if no more than the bullies.
Yeah, you're lucky to have each other. :smallredface:

[Coidzor]

Well; I meant more in a "identifying as a girl means I'm holding onto gender stereotypes and the like; I should be genderqueer" sorta way.

That's ridiculous. The only way that's even halfway a legitimate thought is if one subscribes to a deeply flawed belief that everyone should be (or is) genderqueer. Which is just as bad and wrong as saying that everyone is bi and in varying degrees and states of denial which is just as wrong as denying that homosexuality exists like some homophobes do.


I was never too fond of that "testing" thing - it sort of makes sense if you're questioning, but it's not like you can't tell whether you're attracted to someone just because they're wearing pants. :smallsigh:

Indeed, if one is that uncertain, then one should just own up to being Questioning, really. Don't most people just know it, in a sort of know it in their bones kind of way except for people who are Questioning and those people who seem to permanently be in a state of flux on multiple fronts?


Honestly, I think you should take the promise back if you feel you'd be uncomfortable with it. I almost want to say you should even if you're okay with it, just because he made you promise it (I mean, that's so rude!). :/

It's the sort of promise one shouldn't make, one shouldn't ask of someone else, and is largely meaningless and should not be tried to be called in and one should laugh in the face of anyone who tries to do so. Preferably rudely before giving them a lesson in basic ethics.


I actually felt like I was betraying the genitals I already had

Fortunately genitalia and gonads don't have feelings or awareness themselves.

Or else we'd be in a lot worse shape than we already are.


True. It sounds almost like claiming that it's a condition instead of a simple state of being. :/

Indeed... At times I catch myself imagining the hypothetical storms of excrement that will go down once science figures it out, and just what people who will refuse to acknowledge it will say instead.

[Astrella]

That's ridiculous. The only way that's even halfway a legitimate thought is if one subscribes to a deeply flawed belief that everyone should be (or is) genderqueer. Which is just as bad and wrong as saying that everyone is bi and in varying degrees and states of denial which is just as wrong as denying that homosexuality exists like some homophobes do.

Well it was more a "I was born a boy; I don't know what being a girl is like; but I know I'm not a boy; gaaah; why is this so confusing; I don't have a right to claim I'm a girl; maybe I'm genderqueer?; but I just want to be seen as a girl, not genderqueer; why is this so confusingggg...." and couple that with a bunch of suppressed feeling surfacing.

[Lady Serpentine]

In those same places, I learnt cracker was a derogatory term for white people, probably in reference to the cracking of whips of slave owners, something like that... I didn't see a definitive explanation beside "it's directed at white people".



If I remember correctly, it did refer to the cracking of whips, but ones being used by cattle herders. Not entirely sure how it got to be a slur from that origin, unless herding cows was seen as a bad thing, but language is wonky. :smallyuk: Though I got... Three hours of sleep, I think?... so that could be me misremembering, and it's also possible that that particular derivation is a regionalism.

[noparlpf]

On the general topic of Musashi's rant:

Come talk about my thesis on privilege, erasure, representation, etc. in queer studies.

Share your ideas, feelings, experiences, questions, thoughts, concerns, baked goods, etc.

i'll start out by explaining my thesis topic and showing some of what i've done so far. for a sneak peak, you can go to one of my thesis blogs, which is: [snip]

then we will spend the rest of the time talking about queer studies as an academic discipline, accessibility of the texts, whitewashing of queerness, and more

it will be a great time for sure

snacks as always

maybe ace credit, maybe not, let me know if you're into that

also, this event is only open to individuals that identify as l,g,b,t,(or)q as my thesis is solely about queer perspectives & experiences

ps please invite your friends!!

Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.

Also:

In those same places, I learnt cracker was a derogatory term for white people, probably in reference to the cracking of whips of slave owners, something like that... I didn't see a definitive explanation beside "it's directed at white people".

I love this site (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cracker&allowed_in_frame=0).

[Astrella]

On the general topic of Musashi's rant:


Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

Rubbish; it's not her job to police people's identities nor is it anyone's job. I agree with what you are saying; maybe send her an email explaining your issues?

[Coidzor]

Indeed. Preaching to the choir like that only means that when she actually has to defend her thesis for reals (unless you've got some kind of insanely disproportionate faculty ratios going on) she's not going to have a leg to stand on. :smallconfused:

[noparlpf]

Haha; "Only queer faculty can judge my thesis!"

[Mono Vertigo]

On the general topic of Musashi's rant:


Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?



Well, no one wants to educate the ignorant/oblivious. Sure, no one should had to educate someone who offended them, and one should educate oneself. That would happen in a world that approaches perfection better than ours.
However? Discussions are getting inane and insane (this last word, by the way, is also offensive in some circles) because of this principle. "[Use of a bad word in an ignorant but innocent context]"
"Did you seriously say that? You [insult]"
"Wait, what? What did I say?"
"You used [bad word]! It's bad! That's terrible!"
"Really? I'm sorry, I had no idea, it's always been used in a neutral way where I live! How is it bad? Where does it come from?"
"We're not here to educate you! Educate yourself! You [something]-centrist [insult]!"
"Why are you mad at me?"
"You're using the tone argument now? [Link to Derailing for Dummies]"
"Could you please not use [something]-ist insults at me at least?"
"[something]-ism doesn't exist, you idiot!"
"I'm sorry you were offended... by the way, if you're insulting someone just because they are [something they did not choose], that's technically -ist..."
"No, you're just sorry you got caught and that we dared being offended at the obvious insults you threw at us. By the way, you're now banned because you're too thick to understand anything! Goodbye, [insult]!"
In short, no one actually learns anything, and everyone pats each others on the back for driving away decent people who made the mistake of not knowing everything there is to know.
What you're describing here is the same, only without the aggressiveness. Hardly better.


Also:


I love this site (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cracker&allowed_in_frame=0).
Thanks!
Yeah.
Another "funny" side effect to the phenomenon I described is that certain definitions are considered wrong by these people, generally those that end with -ism or -phobia. The justification for that is that dictionaries are written by white straight cismales, and their definitions tainted by their point of view.
Alright, but then, do I really have to check Internet for the "proper" definitions? How can I know for sure the websites I'm checking for research aren't biased too? (That question never came up, but I'm fairly certain the answer would be "if it's written by an oppressed minority, then it can't be biased, silly!".)
And while some words are obviously bad and should not be used, there are many others who don't look offensive at first glance. Ideally, research should be made before using these, that I agree on. But we're reaching a point where MANY words have bad connotations. Should we research every single word we want to sue? Where, if dictionaries are unreliable?

[noparlpf]

Well, no one wants to educate the ignorant/oblivious. Sure, no one should had to educate someone who offended them, and one should educate oneself. That would happen in a world that approaches perfection better than ours.
However? Discussions are getting inane and insane (this last word, by the way, is also offensive in some circles) because of this principle. "[Use of a bad word in an ignorant but innocent context]"
"Did you seriously say that? You [insult]"
"Wait, what? What did I say?"
"You used [bad word]! It's bad! That's terrible!"
"Really? I'm sorry, I had no idea, it's always been used in a neutral way where I live! How is it bad? Where does it come from?"
"We're not here to educate you! Educate yourself! You [something]-centrist [insult]!"
"Why are you mad at me?"
"You're using the tone argument now? [Link to Derailing for Dummies]"
"Could you please not use [something]-ist insults at me at least?"
"[something]-ism doesn't exist, you idiot!"
"I'm sorry you were offended... by the way, if you're insulting someone just because they are [something they did not choose], that's technically -ist..."
"No, you're just sorry you got caught and that we dared being offended at the obvious insults you threw at us. By the way, you're now banned because you're too thick to understand anything! Goodbye, [insult]!"
In short, no one actually learns anything, and everyone pats each others on the back for driving away decent people who made the mistake of not knowing everything there is to know.
What you're describing here is the same, only without the aggressiveness. Hardly better.

Thanks!
Yeah.
Another "funny" side effect to the phenomenon I described is that certain definitions are considered wrong by these people, generally those that end with -ism or -phobia. The justification for that is that dictionaries are written by white straight cismales, and their definitions tainted by their point of view.
Alright, but then, do I really have to check Internet for the "proper" definitions? How can I know for sure the websites I'm checking for research aren't biased too? (That question never came up, but I'm fairly certain the answer would be "if it's written by an oppressed minority, then it can't be biased, silly!".)
And while some words are obviously bad and should not be used, there are many others who don't look offensive at first glance. Ideally, research should be made before using these, that I agree on. But we're reaching a point where MANY words have bad connotations. Should we research every single word we want to sue? Where, if dictionaries are unreliable?

Exactly. Just because half a dozen people in one place on the internet consider "cookie" to be a bad word doesn't mean anybody else has any way of knowing that. Yes, it would be nice if people knew things on their own. On the other hand, schools and teachers exist because it doesn't work that way. And nobody learns everything in school. When somebody doesn't know something that you think they should know, and they're expressing interest in learning, yeah, teaching them is the right thing to do, whether you "ought" to have to or not.
And you want inane? In my Gender Studies class, we frequently had a couple of people shouting the same things back and forth at each other, getting louder each time.

[Laser Frog]

I think the general up-itself-ness of the queer community online is one of the reasons to avoid bits of it. Being LGBTQAwhatever does not mean that you can't be petty, shallow, stupid and attention-seeking, and it certainly isn't a total morality embargo.

I've seen a lot of the behaviour Musashi ranted about, and yeah, it is a bit endemic in places. Shame, really.
Darn tootin'. These days, I almost want to cringe in horror when someone identifies themselves as part of a gay subculture (such as being a "bear") just because of the rep that sort of thing has earned. Yet at the same time, I know I'm also selling those non-arrogant people short by doing that.


Well no offense to the females on this forum, I find the concept of a vagina to be disgusting, so yeah, but she didn't mean any harm by it. She believes she is straight, but apparently will be finding out in college...
Just because she's not satisfactorily sure of her orientation doesn't mean you aren't too. The whole promise you had to make to your friend seems kind of insulting, because really, why should she care so much to have you make that promise? The fact that it would need to be a three-way for you to even "get it up" should say enough by itself. :smallannoyed:

[KenderWizard]

Jaysus, ye've been going fast since I left. Lucky Nope is around to say what we think! :smalltongue:

Also, I just suggested Asta to make the new thread because I like the idea of passing the thread-making around so I picked a person I hadn't seen make one. Trisc works just as well. :smallsmile:

Also also, first post, I would again like to point out that it was Qaera who made the dictionary and me who added it to the first post. Obviously it's not a huge big deal, but just to say.


On the general topic of Musashi's rant:


Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.


I had a similar situation come up yesterday; the LGBT Officer on the student union committee of my college apparently has to be L, G, B or T. I was unable to discern if other letters "counted", but apparently A for Ally doesn't. I can understand, in both these cases, wanting to keep the focus on the people who are most important to the thing and also often overlooked, but I think it would do equally well and be more justifiable and less exclusionary to include allies and just say that people who are espouse intolerant beliefs about LGBT+ people aren't allowed. After all, I don't think many non-LGBT+ people would run for LGBT Officer anyway. I do wonder if I would count, with my heteronormative relationship. Would I have to "prove" I'm bi? (A straight person can just claim to be bi, I suppose. How would you stop them from getting in?! :smallsigh:)

[noparlpf]

Jaysus, ye've been going fast since I left. Lucky Nope is around to say what we think! :smalltongue:

Also, I just suggested Asta to make the new thread because I like the idea of passing the thread-making around so I picked a person I hadn't seen make one. Trisc works just as well. :smallsmile:

Also also, first post, I would again like to point out that it was Qaera who made the dictionary and me who added it to the first post. Obviously it's not a huge big deal, but just to say.



I had a similar situation come up yesterday; the LGBT Officer on the student union committee of my college apparently has to be L, G, B or T. I was unable to discern if other letters "counted", but apparently A for Ally doesn't. I can understand, in both these cases, wanting to keep the focus on the people who are most important to the thing and also often overlooked, but I think it would do equally well and be more justifiable and less exclusionary to include allies and just say that people who are espouse intolerant beliefs about LGBT+ people aren't allowed. After all, I don't think many non-LGBT+ people would run for LGBT Officer anyway. I do wonder if I would count, with my heteronormative relationship. Would I have to "prove" I'm bi? (A straight person can just claim to be bi, I suppose. How would you stop them from getting in?! :smallsigh:)

Clearly you have to go make out with several girls.
:smallsigh:
I'm gonna be late for class poop.

[pffh]

On the general topic of Musashi's rant:


Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.

This sort of attitude pisses me off. If I lived anywhere close to you I would attend this (I'm allowed to since my letter is in her list) and give her a piece of my mind and point out the blatant -ism going on here (Not sure which -ism it is but it is one (Sexism? Sexuality-ism?))

[Heliomance]

Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing. :smalleek:

[Asta Kask]

Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing. :smalleek:

I think you'll be amazed and delighted how much no one cares and how undramatical it will be. Not because we don't care about you, but because we know that the person Heliomance remains the same whatever happens. And it is the person we like and love.

*hugs*

[Mono Vertigo]

*holds head between hands*
So, huh, you know the circle of hate thing, and the crime I mentioned in my rant? Well, I absolutely don't like what the news is telling me, because it's telling me the culprit is himself part of a racial minority and targeted other minorities for political reasons and that demonstrates too well why blind hate isn't gonna help anybody and and and oh god what's wrong with everything right now

EDIT: I'm describing the event in very vague terms for a reason: so it doesn't devolve into politics. Haven't seen any problem yet at the moment I'm typing this, but I'd rather make a preemptive warning.

A minority attacking another minority simply because they exist only gives the oppressing majority extra excuses for hating the attacking minority. And the victimized one, too, because now they have to deal with the trouble caused by the conflict, and it would have never happened if the victimized minority had never existed at all. That's how it works with racism. And that's how it works with homophobia, and transphobia, and sexism, and everything. The conscious decision to make collateral damage is never a good idea, ever. You target your aggressors, and no one more. Not their family. Not their loved ones. Not their community. Not their classmates. Not their victims. Not the aggressors of your aggressors. Them. The aggressors. No one else.

I think I'm gonna lay down.



@Heliomance: go you. Sorry, I'm not in the right mood to encourage you better than that, but remember I have positive thoughts and feelings about it, okay? :smallsmile:

[Mina Kobold]

On the general topic of Musashi's rant:


Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.

I am tempted to find a way to your settlement-of-living and show up dressed as an L, but that would be far too mean of me. Sorry. ^_^'

In all seriousness, I think it might be a good idea to eMail back and ask why exactly a thesis on Queer experience would not benefit those who do not directly experience it. Being polite and calm might be the way to make the theser (I have my own vocabulary!) rethink what is accomplished by it. :smallsmile:



Well, no one wants to educate the ignorant/oblivious. Sure, no one should had to educate someone who offended them, and one should educate oneself. That would happen in a world that approaches perfection better than ours.
However? Discussions are getting inane and insane (this last word, by the way, is also offensive in some circles) because of this principle. "[Use of a bad word in an ignorant but innocent context]"
"Did you seriously say that? You [insult]"
"Wait, what? What did I say?"
"You used [bad word]! It's bad! That's terrible!"
"Really? I'm sorry, I had no idea, it's always been used in a neutral way where I live! How is it bad? Where does it come from?"
"We're not here to educate you! Educate yourself! You [something]-centrist [insult]!"
"Why are you mad at me?"
"You're using the tone argument now? [Link to Derailing for Dummies]"
"Could you please not use [something]-ist insults at me at least?"
"[something]-ism doesn't exist, you idiot!"
"I'm sorry you were offended... by the way, if you're insulting someone just because they are [something they did not choose], that's technically -ist..."
"No, you're just sorry you got caught and that we dared being offended at the obvious insults you threw at us. By the way, you're now banned because you're too thick to understand anything! Goodbye, [insult]!"
In short, no one actually learns anything, and everyone pats each others on the back for driving away decent people who made the mistake of not knowing everything there is to know.
What you're describing here is the same, only without the aggressiveness. Hardly better.

Thanks!
Yeah.
Another "funny" side effect to the phenomenon I described is that certain definitions are considered wrong by these people, generally those that end with -ism or -phobia. The justification for that is that dictionaries are written by white straight cismales, and their definitions tainted by their point of view.
Alright, but then, do I really have to check Internet for the "proper" definitions? How can I know for sure the websites I'm checking for research aren't biased too? (That question never came up, but I'm fairly certain the answer would be "if it's written by an oppressed minority, then it can't be biased, silly!".)
And while some words are obviously bad and should not be used, there are many others who don't look offensive at first glance. Ideally, research should be made before using these, that I agree on. But we're reaching a point where MANY words have bad connotations. Should we research every single word we want to sue? Where, if dictionaries are unreliable?

*Hugs*

There are bigoted people in all walks of life, but I am quite certain it is a lot rarer than it looks. The loudest are not necessarily the majority. :smallsmile:

On that note, I wonder if that logic works if the -ism you accuse them of is based on a word they use as neutral. Turning the plates on them sounds like it could make someone notice if they are being irrational.


Jaysus, ye've been going fast since I left. Lucky Nope is around to say what we think! :smalltongue:

Also, I just suggested Asta to make the new thread because I like the idea of passing the thread-making around so I picked a person I hadn't seen make one. Trisc works just as well. :smallsmile:

Also also, first post, I would again like to point out that it was Qaera who made the dictionary and me who added it to the first post. Obviously it's not a huge big deal, but just to say.



I had a similar situation come up yesterday; the LGBT Officer on the student union committee of my college apparently has to be L, G, B or T. I was unable to discern if other letters "counted", but apparently A for Ally doesn't. I can understand, in both these cases, wanting to keep the focus on the people who are most important to the thing and also often overlooked, but I think it would do equally well and be more justifiable and less exclusionary to include allies and just say that people who are espouse intolerant beliefs about LGBT+ people aren't allowed. After all, I don't think many non-LGBT+ people would run for LGBT Officer anyway. I do wonder if I would count, with my heteronormative relationship. Would I have to "prove" I'm bi? (A straight person can just claim to be bi, I suppose. How would you stop them from getting in?! :smallsigh:)

Clearly they subcontract groups from the underground to dig up embarrasing photographs of every contender and evaluate them on that basis! :3

Not that Kobolds ever do that, nope! It's the mole people, honest! >_>


Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing. :smalleek:

Congratulations! :smallsmile:

...Wait, Skype names are supposed to be consistent with Meat'n'HamSpace? O_o

[Triscuitable]

I think you'll be amazed and delighted how much no one cares and how undramatical it will be. Not because we don't care about you, but because we know that the person Heliomance remains the same whatever happens. And it is the person we like and love.

*hugs*

I also like this thing.

Used to be a bigger statement, but then my cats started to "engage" on my bed. Noooooooo thank you.

[supernerd]

Just because she's not satisfactorily sure of her orientation doesn't mean you aren't too. The whole promise you had to make to your friend seems kind of insulting, because really, why should she care so much to have you make that promise? The fact that it would need to be a three-way for you to even "get it up" should say enough by itself. :smallannoyed:

Well she doesn't mean anything by it, and she wasn't requiring it, I was like "sure, I'll let you know if that happens..."

I mean I'm homoromantic and ever so slightly bisexual, like a 5.99 at the least, so I still acknowledge the whole right person thing, but it won't happen anytime until I am already happily settled with a partner and have no need to explore my sexual endeavors, I won't be able to love her, and thus I identify as gay.

She's a weird person, but I've become rather desensitized to her. She's said things I would punch other people for, but I know it's just part of her (Name censored to maintain anonymity)-ness.

Her and one of my secondary best friends have said some great stuff...

Me: I'm not a puppy...
Male secondary best friend: Then stop acting like a Bitch!

After her getting the fold of my jeans during "The Nervous Game"
Female best friend: now I have to see you naked, in a totally nonsexual way.
Me: why?
Male secondary best friend: to make sure that gay people are people too!

My lunch table is great!

[noparlpf]

This sort of attitude pisses me off. If I lived anywhere close to you I would attend this (I'm allowed to since my letter is in her list) and give her a piece of my mind and point out the blatant -ism going on here (Not sure which -ism it is but it is one (Sexism? Sexuality-ism?))

I don't know, but there should be more words for -isms against non-minorities.


Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing. :smalleek:

Cool beans!


*holds head between hands*
So, huh, you know the circle of hate thing, and the crime I mentioned in my rant? Well, I absolutely don't like what the news is telling me, because it's telling me the culprit is himself part of a racial minority and targeted other minorities for political reasons and that demonstrates too well why blind hate isn't gonna help anybody and and and oh god what's wrong with everything right now

A minority attacking another minority simply because they exist only gives the oppressing majority from hating the attacking minority. And the victimized one, too, because now they have to deal with the trouble caused by the conflict, and it would have never happened if the victimized minority had never existed at all. That's how it works with racism. And that's how it works with homophobia, and transphobia, and sexism, and everything. The conscious decision to make collateral damage is never a good idea, ever. You target your aggressors, and no one more. Not their family. Not their loved ones. Not their community. Not their classmates. Not their victims. Not the aggressors of your aggressors. Them. The aggressors. No one else.

I think I'm gonna lay down.

*headdesk*

Edit: So this thesis shindig is tonight at 6:30. Should I go? Air my concerns?

[Kindablue]

I had a similar situation come up yesterday; the LGBT Officer on the student union committee of my college apparently has to be L, G, B or T. I was unable to discern if other letters "counted", but apparently A for Ally doesn't. I can understand, in both these cases, wanting to keep the focus on the people who are most important to the thing and also often overlooked, but I think it would do equally well and be more justifiable and less exclusionary to include allies and just say that people who are espouse intolerant beliefs about LGBT+ people aren't allowed. After all, I don't think many non-LGBT+ people would run for LGBT Officer anyway. I do wonder if I would count, with my heteronormative relationship. Would I have to "prove" I'm bi? (A straight person can just claim to be bi, I. suppose. How would you stop them from getting in?! :smallsigh:)

Is the LGBT Officer meant to be a representative of the school's LGBT community for the committee? I agree with you that the application of something like that would probably get messy easily, but I also get why they'd want something like that in the first place.

[KenderWizard]

I think you should go, Nope. If you've got the spoons (http://www.buty​oudontlooksick.​com/navigation/​BYDLS-TheSpoonT​heory.pdf)* for it. If you can make your point in a very non-confrontational way, it might help, or at least make them aware that they are excluding allies. I'd say if it gets aggressive though, just leave. You can't waste your time trying to fix everyone. :smallsigh:

*If you don't read the link (everyone should read that story, though!) it explains that you can imagine being well as having an infinite supply of "spoons" (or anything else that's a metaphor for energy) and having a long-term illness or disability (or something else that makes every day a struggle) is like having only a handful, that you have to dish out and be careful with.



This sort of attitude pisses me off. If I lived anywhere close to you I would attend this (I'm allowed to since my letter is in her list) and give her a piece of my mind and point out the blatant -ism going on here (Not sure which -ism it is but it is one (Sexism? Sexuality-ism?))

This is why we should use "sexualorientationism"! It's broader and covers all kinds of things that "homophobia" doesn't, like bi people, straight people, people with fluid sexualities! Does asexuality count as a sexual orientation? I mean, it's not an orientation per se. It's like 0 isn't a number. People who don't identify as any particular gender; that's still a gender identity. That's where that would go. So I think asexuality would also be covered. It could be interpreted to, certainly.

Also, I just had a great thought! Orientation is a FANTASTIC word for that. It's not an immutable rule. It's not a switch. It doesn't actually tell you who a person would find attractive. It's an orientation. They're oriented towards, say, men. They're looking at men when they're choosing. Maybe they've got a narrow orientation "I am going precisely 10.5 degrees manward" - just masculine men - or a broad, general "that way ish?" - men, mannish people, biological males, whatever. It's a great word!


Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing. :smalleek:

Well done!

Also, I wasn't around, but if you're still concerned about not being entitled to female things; what makes you entitled to male ones? Biological sex, or time spent using them? No, because a trans person is just as entitled as a cis person. So the entitlement is from your identity. And your identity is completely legitimate.

I would say, if you think you might swing back again towards male, watch out for things like websites not letting you change your details multiple times and stuff like that.

[Mono Vertigo]

"I am going precisely 10.5 degrees manward"

The rest of your post was pretty damn good, as usual, but this specific part? Hilariously awesome. Sigging this. :smallbiggrin:

[Nix Nihila]

This is why we should use "sexualorientationism"! It's broader and covers all kinds of things that "homophobia" doesn't, like bi people, straight people, people with fluid sexualities!

My only real objection would be that "sexualorientationism" is truly horrible in terms of aesthetics. It assaults both my eyes and my ears, and it even tastes strange when I say it. I think I would probably avoid it for those reasons even if it were in common use.

Edit: That was probably a bit overdramatic.

[Viera Champion]

This sort of attitude pisses me off. If I lived anywhere close to you I would attend this (I'm allowed to since my letter is in her list) and give her a piece of my mind and point out the blatant -ism going on here (Not sure which -ism it is but it is one (Sexism? Sexuality-ism?))

It's like the opposite of heterosexism.

[Asta Kask]

I think the term is separationism and it has been practiced by various groups over the years. It's not an entirely stupid idea - the theory is that if you have no cishetero people there then the queer people will be able to talk without having to worry about the kyriarchy watching them. But it can also be taken too far, like when trans women are excluded from women's festivals because they're "really men".

[pffh]

It's like the opposite of heterosexism.

Heterosexism: Something that is of the Hetero sex? I didn't know we had a hetero sex.

[Gallus]

Heterosexism: Something that is of the Hetero sex? I didn't know we had a hetero sex.

I think our parents having hetero sex is why most of us are here in the first place.

[Coidzor]

However? Discussions are getting inane and insane (this last word, by the way, is also offensive in some circles) because of this principle. "[Use of a bad word in an ignorant but innocent context]"
"Did you seriously say that? You [insult]"
"Wait, what? What did I say?"
"You used [bad word]! It's bad! That's terrible!"
"Really? I'm sorry, I had no idea, it's always been used in a neutral way where I live! How is it bad? Where does it come from?"
"We're not here to educate you! Educate yourself! You [something]-centrist [insult]!"
"Why are you mad at me?"
"You're using the tone argument now? [Link to Derailing for Dummies]"
"Could you please not use [something]-ist insults at me at least?"
"[something]-ism doesn't exist, you idiot!"
"I'm sorry you were offended... by the way, if you're insulting someone just because they are [something they did not choose], that's technically -ist..."
"No, you're just sorry you got caught and that we dared being offended at the obvious insults you threw at us. By the way, you're now banned because you're too thick to understand anything! Goodbye, [insult]!"
In short, no one actually learns anything, and everyone pats each others on the back for driving away decent people who made the mistake of not knowing everything there is to know.
What you're describing here is the same, only without the aggressiveness. Hardly better.

Indeed, not only do they create a harsh atmosphere where everyone's head is up each others' patoots, they also make themselves into hypocrites by responding to innocuous use with legitimate, serious insults and othering language. :smallamused:

And as for the people who think "insane" is a no-no word, well, by adopting it, they're not showing themselves off as being very wise. Hardly gets used to refer to the mentally ill at all anymore, and when it does, it's a rather unfortunately apt descriptor.


Another "funny" side effect to the phenomenon I described is that certain definitions are considered wrong by these people, generally those that end with -ism or -phobia. The justification for that is that dictionaries are written by white straight cismales, and their definitions tainted by their point of view.

This is funny to me. Their blatantly offbase assumptions. While the original ones probably were, the people doing the grunt work in today's dictionaries could be anyone, especially online.


Yes, it would be nice if people knew things on their own.

Society also probably couldn't function without the necessity of bonding with our parents and being social that is necessary to fulfill our need to learn how to be humans rather than having it be an innate thing.


I also like this thing.

Used to be a bigger statement, but then my cats started to "engage" on my bed. Noooooooo thank you.

...Why aren't they spayed and neutered? :smallconfused:

You should probably go ahead and make the appointment today...


I think the term is separationism and it has been practiced by various groups over the years. It's not an entirely stupid idea - the theory is that if you have no cishetero people there then the queer people will be able to talk without having to worry about the kyriarchy watching them. But it can also be taken too far, like when trans women are excluded from women's festivals because they're "really men".

:smallconfused: Err... That example is, in and of itself a stupid idea, or at least very much seems to be, as it is predicated on the laughable idea that there is some kind of ill will and intelligent force actively arrayed to promote kyriarchy rather than it being an unconscious byproduct of most people's existence.


Also, I wasn't around, but if you're still concerned about not being entitled to female things; what makes you entitled to male ones? Biological sex, or time spent using them? No, because a trans person is just as entitled as a cis person. So the entitlement is from your identity. And your identity is completely legitimate.

Or there's no such thing as entitlement. That works too, I imagine.


I think you should go, Nope. If you've got the spoons (http://www.buty​oudontlooksick.​com/navigation/​BYDLS-TheSpoonT​heory.pdf)* for it. If you can make your point in a very non-confrontational way, it might help, or at least make them aware that they are excluding allies. I'd say if it gets aggressive though, just leave. You can't waste your time trying to fix everyone. :smallsigh:

Has Nope ever given any indication of having a shortage of cutlery? :smallconfused:

[Viera Champion]

Heterosexism: Something that is of the Hetero sex? I didn't know we had a hetero sex.

Hey, I didn't create the word. I just know its definition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexism).

[Mutant Sheep]

I think our parents having hetero sex is why most of us are here in the first place.

*applauds* I laughed a bit too hard at that one.

[bluewind95]

Re Spoon theory:

The only issue I have with that is that healthy people don't really have infinite spoons either. They just have way more than the disabled/ill person. I think it's more like... a flashlight battery. It recharges when you rest, but sick/disabled people have bad batteries that work less and charge less. A healthy person not resting and overworking, though, will soon have less and less charge at the start of the day.

[Arachu]

And at least it made me realize why I like Mulan so much. Reflection is a song that just rings so true. :smallfrown: :smallsmile:

Also, essential linky (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g) with regards to people being asses.

I like how he put that. :smallsmile:

(It's also funny how it kind of sounds like an optimistic version of something Lovecraft would've said. :smalltongue:)

How did therapy go?


It's the sort of promise one shouldn't make, one shouldn't ask of someone else, and is largely meaningless and should not be tried to be called in and one should laugh in the face of anyone who tries to do so. Preferably rudely before giving them a lesson in basic ethics.

Well, maybe not the laughing bit in this case. The problem is that it's seen as such a reasonable thing to ask of someone, when in reality it's kind of... Well, there are unfortunate implications across the board. :/


Fortunately genitalia and gonads don't have feelings or awareness themselves.

Or else we'd be in a lot worse shape than we already are.

Well, yeah (hopefully... :smalleek: :smalltongue:). It never really made much sense, but that's how things often are before you really think about them. :shrug:


Indeed... At times I catch myself imagining the hypothetical storms of excrement that will go down once science figures it out, and just what people who will refuse to acknowledge it will say instead.

Part of me doubts that they'll act any differently... They're still using a lot of the more nonsensical arguments that got discounted decades ago... :smallsigh:


Well it was more a "I was born a boy; I don't know what being a girl is like; but I know I'm not a boy; gaaah; why is this so confusing; I don't have a right to claim I'm a girl; maybe I'm genderqueer?; but I just want to be seen as a girl, not genderqueer; why is this so confusingggg...." and couple that with a bunch of suppressed feeling surfacing.

*Hugs* Actually, that's pretty close to what I experienced... Er, am still experiencing. Still not sure how I'd feel about having the other set. :/


On the general topic of Musashi's rant:


Remember that talk on female sexuality I was kicked out of a couple of weeks ago? Well, the girl who ran that is giving a talk on her thesis, and this is the email she sent out.
See that bolded bit?
:smallsigh::smallmad:
Clearly somebody has failed to understand the point of her own thesis. Preaching to the choir is rather pointless, so the only reason to write something like that is to spread awareness to other, more privileged groups. Intentionally excluding them kind of defeats the purpose.
If you want to change the culture of privilege, power, and difference (book title), don't exclude the people who need to learn about their own privilege, and definitely don't alienate those people who realise their privilege and are trying to work with you to create equality.

So, who wants to bet I won't be allowed in because asexual doesn't count as queer?

Edit: I just realised she didn't even give a time or place, so my last question is kind of moot.

*Facepalm*


*holds head between hands*
So, huh, you know the circle of hate thing, and the crime I mentioned in my rant? Well, I absolutely don't like what the news is telling me, because it's telling me the culprit is himself part of a racial minority and targeted other minorities for political reasons and that demonstrates too well why blind hate isn't gonna help anybody and and and oh god what's wrong with everything right now

EDIT: I'm describing the event in very vague terms for a reason: so it doesn't devolve into politics. Haven't seen any problem yet at the moment I'm typing this, but I'd rather make a preemptive warning.

A minority attacking another minority simply because they exist only gives the oppressing majority extra excuses for hating the attacking minority. And the victimized one, too, because now they have to deal with the trouble caused by the conflict, and it would have never happened if the victimized minority had never existed at all. That's how it works with racism. And that's how it works with homophobia, and transphobia, and sexism, and everything. The conscious decision to make collateral damage is never a good idea, ever. You target your aggressors, and no one more. Not their family. Not their loved ones. Not their community. Not their classmates. Not their victims. Not the aggressors of your aggressors. Them. The aggressors. No one else.

I think I'm gonna lay down.

*Hugs*


So this thesis shindig is tonight at 6:30. Should I go? Air my concerns?

I want to say "yeah" - hopefully she can listen long enough to hear what's wrong with her assumptions. Even if she doesn't then, she might relent enough to if you persist over a couple more meetings (my precariously-balanced hat is off to you if you're patient enough for that).


Heterosexism: Something that is of the Hetero sex? I didn't know we had a hetero sex.

It could mean 'something that is of the opinion that the sexes are opposite'.


And as for the people who think "insane" is a no-no word, well, by adopting it, they're not showing themselves off as being very wise. Hardly gets used to refer to the mentally ill at all anymore, and when it does, it's a rather unfortunately apt descriptor.

I'm not too fond of how people use "insane". I've heard it used to dismiss the opinions of others far too many times. :smallsigh:

The word itself, I'm indifferent to. It roots in some rather unfortunate cultural assumptions, but there are pretty unhealthy courses of action. :shrug:


Society also probably couldn't function without the necessity of bonding with our parents and being social that is necessary to fulfill our need to learn how to be humans rather than having it be an innate thing.

I'd say it's more important to bond with other people and consider the meanings and implications of one's actions. I hate my parents (and no, "hate" isn't too strong a word), and I ended up being pretty empathetic anyway.

Also, a lot of morals actually make sense from a purely-logical standpoint (murder disrupts society, politeness can disarm arguments, etc.).


...Why aren't they spayed and neutered? :smallconfused:

You should probably go ahead and make the appointment today...

... I'm going to refrain from exploding at that statement. :smallannoyed:

It's worth noting that they won't get pregnant that way - his cats are male.

[Coidzor]

... I'm going to refrain from exploding at that statement. :smallannoyed:

It's worth noting that they won't get pregnant that way - his cats are male.

Neutered then. Though if you wanted to take umbrage at encouraging responsible pet ownership, I suppose you could.


I'd say it's more important to bond with other people and consider the meanings and implications of one's actions. I hate my parents (and no, "hate" isn't too strong a word), and I ended up being pretty empathetic anyway.

I think you just sailed clear over my point, Arachu. :smallconfused:


Well, maybe not the laughing bit in this case. The problem is that it's seen as such a reasonable thing to ask of someone, when in reality it's kind of... Well, there are unfortunate implications across the board. :/

Not in my neck of the woods. And that's all the more reason to make it clear to people how unacceptable it is.

[pffh]

Neutered then. Though if you wanted to take umbrage at encouraging responsible pet ownership, I suppose you could.

Agreed. If you aren't going to breed from them neuter them. Stray cats are a problem in many places because people don't neuter and pet rescue places are overflowing in most if not all countries that have them.

[Arachu]

Neutered then. Though if you wanted to take umbrage at encouraging responsible pet ownership, I suppose you could.

I just hate how it's seen as perfectly acceptable to sterilize something on the grounds that you don't plan to breed it. Especially considering the whole "purebreed" concept... :/


I think you just sailed clear over my point, Arachu. :smallconfused:

How so?


Not in my neck of the woods. And that's all the more reason to make it clear to people how unacceptable it is.

Of course. I'm just saying that you shouldn't respond by immediately starting an argument when you could explain what's wrong with it.

[pffh]

I just hate how it's seen as perfectly acceptable to sterilize something on the grounds that you don't plan to breed it. Especially considering the whole "purebreed" concept... :/

Most of the time it's better to sterilize them rather then keeping them pent up from sexual frustration and in addition to that many animals become quite aggressive if they don´t get to release that frustration.

For example rats. I wouldn't want to hold a non-castrated 6 month old male rat no matter how cutesy wutesy his little wittle scrump frumpy face is. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

I just hate how it's seen as perfectly acceptable to sterilize something on the grounds that you don't plan to breed it. Especially considering the whole "purebreed" concept... :/

You like overpopulation of cats, the cruelty shown to strays, and that we have to kill them off? Then spaying and neutering pets and strays is the lesser of two evils. That it makes male cats more tractable and generally develop a more amicable personality is just a fringe benefit.


How so?

You interpreted noting that humans have to learn how to be human from those who raise them and their early educators in a way that hating your parents was somehow relevant. Considering you can talk, read, and use the internet, you learned how to be a human rather than growing up feral or raised by a non-human.


Of course. I'm just saying that you shouldn't respond by immediately starting an argument when you could explain what's wrong with it.

True, though with that kind of relationship, certain licenses can be assumed and used or discarded at one's discretion anyway.

[noparlpf]

I think you should go, Nope. If you've got the spoons (http://www.buty​oudontlooksick.​com/navigation/​BYDLS-TheSpoonT​heory.pdf)* for it. If you can make your point in a very non-confrontational way, it might help, or at least make them aware that they are excluding allies. I'd say if it gets aggressive though, just leave. You can't waste your time trying to fix everyone. :smallsigh:

*If you don't read the link (everyone should read that story, though!) it explains that you can imagine being well as having an infinite supply of "spoons" (or anything else that's a metaphor for energy) and having a long-term illness or disability (or something else that makes every day a struggle) is like having only a handful, that you have to dish out and be careful with.




This is why we should use "sexualorientationism"! It's broader and covers all kinds of things that "homophobia" doesn't, like bi people, straight people, people with fluid sexualities! Does asexuality count as a sexual orientation? I mean, it's not an orientation per se. It's like 0 isn't a number. People who don't identify as any particular gender; that's still a gender identity. That's where that would go. So I think asexuality would also be covered. It could be interpreted to, certainly.

Also, I just had a great thought! Orientation is a FANTASTIC word for that. It's not an immutable rule. It's not a switch. It doesn't actually tell you who a person would find attractive. It's an orientation. They're oriented towards, say, men. They're looking at men when they're choosing. Maybe they've got a narrow orientation "I am going precisely 10.5 degrees manward" - just masculine men - or a broad, general "that way ish?" - men, mannish people, biological males, whatever. It's a great word!



Well done!

Also, I wasn't around, but if you're still concerned about not being entitled to female things; what makes you entitled to male ones? Biological sex, or time spent using them? No, because a trans person is just as entitled as a cis person. So the entitlement is from your identity. And your identity is completely legitimate.

I would say, if you think you might swing back again towards male, watch out for things like websites not letting you change your details multiple times and stuff like that.

I didn't get the article from your link for some reason. Did you mean this one (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/)? 'Cause I kind of agree with bluewind; we have more spoons, but not infinite spoons. Say you have twelve a day, I probably have forty-eight or something like that.


I think the term is separationism and it has been practiced by various groups over the years. It's not an entirely stupid idea - the theory is that if you have no cishetero people there then the queer people will be able to talk without having to worry about the kyriarchy watching them. But it can also be taken too far, like when trans women are excluded from women's festivals because they're "really men".

Or like when legitimate allies are excluded from any kind of movement.


Has Nope ever given any indication of having a shortage of cutlery? :smallconfused:

*checks drawer*
In fact, I only have two spoons. But I have a couple of forks too. Can those count as honorary spoons?



So, I decided to take the advice of a friend whose judgement I trust over my own. He's a sensible kind of guy. I'm not going to the thesis shindig tonight (which is kind of obvious as I'm typing this because it started forty-five minutes ago), but I am going to email the girl about my concerns*. I feel like that might be a better way of going about it anyway considering how little chance I got to speak last time, and I don't have much patience for being called an ******* without being allowed to state my case (that was a different girl, not the thesis one). I also don't feel up to arguing the case that asexual counts as "queer" and that we're underrepresented; I'm kind of tired today after moving all my furniture yesterday and sleeping poorly last night. Started out with a dozen fewer spoons that usual, but at least I'm aware that I'm fortunate enough to have those spoons to spare.

*(And I'm going to apologise for last time too; I later found out that they had allowed guys in for the first half hour and then made them leave so the girls could have a safe space, which is better than what I thought with the partial information I acted on. I still kind of disagree with that, ideally, but the world isn't an ideal place and I can sort of understand not wanting to talk about more personal aspects of one's sexuality around the opposite sex, though honestly I personally wouldn't want to talk about personal things of any sort around strangers or near-strangers of the same sex.)

[Arachu]

You like overpopulation of cats, the cruelty shown to strays, and that we have to kill them off? Then spaying and neutering pets and strays is the lesser of two evils. That it makes male cats more tractable and generally develop a more amicable personality is just a fringe benefit.

I'm not saying that I do like those things, only that I don't like the lesser evil either. But what offends me is that it's not seen as being that bad. We don't "fix" preteens, after all.


You interpreted noting that humans have to learn how to be human from those who raise them and their early educators in a way that hating your parents was somehow relevant. Considering you can talk, read, and use the internet, you learned how to be a human rather than growing up feral or raised by a non-human.

I could argue that I learned the basics from them and school and that video games taught me the rest (really, Legend of Dragoon taught me how to read quickly). My actual point is that you don't necessarily have to learn them from your parents to know them, though.

... Okay, yeah, that's not your original point. Still, though. :shrug:

(Also, I don't think I know how to use the Internet so much as I know how to type and use Google. :smalltongue:)


True, though with that kind of relationship, certain licenses can be assumed and used or discarded at one's discretion anyway.

True.

[Triscuitable]

...Why aren't they spayed and neutered? :smallconfused:

You should probably go ahead and make the appointment today...


They are, and they're both male. I've mentioned my gay cats, have I not? :smallamused:


I just hate how it's seen as perfectly acceptable to sterilize something on the grounds that you don't plan to breed it. Especially considering the whole "purebreed" concept... :/


Well they were raised in seperate homes. We only got one after we got the other, and there was an unspayed female in the neighborhood. As a security precaution, we had him neutered. Otherwise we may have had a bunch of tiny little squealing Siamese kittens.

[Heliomance]

Today was a good day, aside from the complete lack of work achieved. I got a lovely new skirt and top (pics will be forthcoming when I have better light, assuming I remember), and got invited on a girls' night in!

[Coidzor]

I'm not saying that I do like those things, only that I don't like the lesser evil either. But what offends me is that it's not seen as being that bad. We don't "fix" preteens, after all.

I sincerely hope that you're being facetious rather than serious here. :smalltongue:

If we are, then I have heard of people wanting all men to get vasectomies as a matter of course so that they have to choose to have children. :smallwink:

[noparlpf]

I sincerely hope that you're being facetious rather than serious here. :smalltongue:

If we are, then I have heard of people wanting all men to get vasectomies as a matter of course so that they have to choose to have children. :smallwink:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[Mutant Sheep]

Sounds like a good idea to me.
Are you being serious here? :smallwink:


Also, hell no, people would never go for that.:smallbiggrin:

[Arachu]

Well they were raised in seperate homes. We only got one after we got the other, and there was an unspayed female in the neighborhood. As a security precaution, we had him neutered. Otherwise we may have had a bunch of tiny little squealing Siamese kittens.

That makes sense, actually. I've just come to cringe at any mention of the word... :smallsigh:

Once we boarded my dog at a vet to go on a trip. When we got him back, he was neutered, shaky and if memory serves starving.

Not only did we not ask them to do that, he was traumatized for the rest of his life. :smallfrown:


I sincerely hope that you're being facetious rather than serious here. :smalltongue:

If we are, then I have heard of people wanting all men to get vasectomies as a matter of course so that they have to choose to have children. :smallwink:

A little of both, actually. I was employing... What's that dark style of satire, again? The kind that that pamphlet that suggests eating the babies of low-income families counts as? The one day I didn't pay attention in English class...

The vasectomy bit actually kind of makes sense... I feel bad for the guys whose procedures reverse, though. :roach:

[Coidzor]

That makes sense, actually. I've just come to cringe at any mention of the word... :smallsigh:

Once we boarded my dog at a vet to go on a trip. When we got him back, he was neutered, shaky and if memory serves starving.

Not only did we not ask them to do that, he was traumatized for the rest of his life. :smallfrown:

I do believe you're looking at the problem all wrong then if you solely blame getting neutered for that. :smalltongue:




A little of both, actually. I was employing... What's that dark style of satire, again? The kind that that pamphlet that suggests eating the babies of low-income families counts as? The one day I didn't pay attention in English class...

The vasectomy bit actually kind of makes sense... I feel bad for the guys whose procedures reverse, though. :roach:

Jonathan Swift, A Modest Proposal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal)

You might be thinking of the term Juvenalian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juvenalian_satire#Horatian_vs_Juvenalian).

[supernerd]

I've decided to read Marvel's Young Avengers. Now I just need the right downloads, or use my birthday visa/mastercards. Though I'd prefer to use those on a date. I still owe the guy I like for the time he got me Arby's during choir rehearsal and had one of his adult friends drive us from the school and back. Our choufer(sp) was quite a good conversationalist. And looked about 45. I assumed family friend.

[Arachu]

I do believe you're looking at the problem all wrong then if you solely blame getting neutered for that. :smalltongue:

True. I doubt it helped, though.

(I'm trying to act lighthearted about it, but this really is bothering me. :/)


Jonathan Swift, A Modest Proposal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal)

You might be thinking of the term Juvenalian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juvenalian_satire#Horatian_vs_Juvenalian).

Right, those were the ones. I remembered that a "u" sound was in there somewhere, but the word just escaped me. :smalltongue:

[The Underlord]

Speaking of un-related topics, can you help me better understand what transexual means? I looked at the dictionary thing in the OP, but its stil kind of confusing to me.

[Coidzor]

Hmm, yeah, could use a bit of clarification there, I suppose. Especially since we have "trans*" which covers transsexual and transgender individuals, but only transsexual is actually defined and only then briefly and is ordered with TS as the primary term rather than transsexual.

I know some included genderqueer and genderfluid as transgender individuals and others don't, so no idea on that account.

I'm pretty sure though that transsexual covers MtF and FtM individuals, individuals born with the bodies of one sex but with the mentality and emotions/sapience/spirit/soul(pick your favorite term for the part of us that does the metaphysics) of the other. Generally implied to be on the path of transition or to have already transitioned, IIRC. Also rendered as transmen and transwomen as the longer form of FtM and MtF, respectively.

Trans by itself, I believe, refers to these individuals, though as always, context can modify it so that even if it's just "trans" rather than "trans*" it could mean whathaveyou.

[Mystic Muse]

Speaking of un-related topics, can you help me better understand what transexual means? I looked at the dictionary thing in the OP, but its stil kind of confusing to me.

Somebody who is Transsexual (Like myself) is somebody who is in the wrong body. Either males born in female bodies or females born in male bodies. For a comparison, imagine you just woke up one day and you were suddenly female when you've been male your entire life, and everybody treats you as if you were always female, and just looks at you weird if you express even once that this is not the case.

At least, that's how I'd describe it when it comes to myself. It's not a pleasant feeling, and I want to take steps to correct it whenever it becomes reasonable to do so.

[squidbreath]

Regarding the OP,

"Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, A, N, V, Q, Ω, everyone. As long as they behave themselves."

What are V & Omega ? & I'm guessing N is neutrois?

[Viera Champion]

Regarding the OP,

"Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, A, N, V, Q, Ω, everyone. As long as they behave themselves."

What are V & Omega ? & I'm guessing N is neutrois?

They are not anything but humor my dear. Trololol and what not. Well the omega is humor at least. With all the terms no, V could actually stand for something.

[Asta Kask]

Today was a good day, aside from the complete lack of work achieved. I got a lovely new skirt and top (pics will be forthcoming when I have better light, assuming I remember), and got invited on a girls' night in!

Will there be photos from the girls' night in? :smallwink:

[Arachu]

They are not anything but humor my dear. Trololol and what not. Well the omega is humor at least. With all the terms no, V could actually stand for something.

Clearly, it refers to the Final Sexuality. :smalltongue:

[Viera Champion]

Clearly, it refers to the Final Sexuality. :smalltongue:

The sexuality to end all sexualities?

[Qaera]

Somebody who is Transsexual (Like myself) is somebody who is in the wrong body. Either males born in female bodies or females born in male bodies. For a comparison, imagine you just woke up one day and you were suddenly female when you've been male your entire life, and everybody treats you as if you were always female, and just looks at you weird if you express even once that this is not the case.

At least, that's how I'd describe it when it comes to myself. It's not a pleasant feeling, and I want to take steps to correct it whenever it becomes reasonable to do so.
Ehm. I dislike the "wrong bodies" thing. It's like... Until we can trans (ha) plant brains, it's still your body after SRS/HRT/FFS. I like your illustration though~


Regarding the OP,

"Everyone is welcome. L, G, B,T, A, A, N, V, Q, Ω, everyone. As long as they behave themselves."

What are V & Omega ? & I'm guessing N is neutrois?

Va-gynosexual? :smalltongue: Veritasexual, attracted to the ideal of truth.
Omega is clearly a reference to the differing etymologies of the first and second half of most orientations, with one being latin and the other being Greek.

On a more serious note, they're jokes~! :smalltongue:

~ ♅

[Triscuitable]

Jonathan Swift, A Modest Proposal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal)


Read it, made some recipes from it. Wasn't impressed, and it was hardly subtle.

[Arachu]

I used some strawberry-scented shampoo (try saying that ten times fast :roach:) earlier today - unfortunately, it seems that the scent either got rinsed out somehow or the conditioner covered it up. >.<

It's really good shampoo, though. It feels like silk~ :smallbiggrin:


The sexuality to end all sexualities?

A sexuality... That shall pierce the heavens!


Ehm. I dislike the "wrong bodies" thing. It's like... Until we can trans (ha) plant brains, it's still your body after SRS/HRT/FFS. I like your illustration though~

I'd say it's the right body with the wrong configuration. It's as good a reason as any to make a technological reference. :smalltongue:


Va-gynosexual? :smalltongue: Veritasexual, attracted to the ideal of truth.
Omega is clearly a reference to the differing etymologies of the first and second half of most orientations, with one being latin and the other being Greek.

On a more serious note, they're jokes~! :smalltongue:

~ ♅

Could be voltsexuality; attraction to electricity.

... I am so gonna use that in the future. :smalltongue:

(I totally pictured random flower petals exploding from nowhere around your avatar just now. :smalltongue:)

[Mystic Muse]

Ehm. I dislike the "wrong bodies" thing. It's like... Until we can trans (ha) plant brains, it's still your body after SRS/HRT/FFS. I like your illustration though~

Bad word choice by my part I think.

Sorry I wasn't around at all last thread. Somehow I managed to miss it entirely.:smallconfused:

[Coidzor]

Read it, made some recipes from it. Wasn't impressed, and it was hardly subtle.

I imagine that being a couple of centuries after the fact would diminish the impact you felt, especially as it is regarded as one of the classics with all of the stigma that entails.

The subtlety is hardly relevant in this day and age, though I seem to recall that it caused a bit of a scandal amongst its target audience.


Ehm. I dislike the "wrong bodies" thing. It's like... Until we can trans (ha) plant brains, it's still your body after SRS/HRT/FFS. I like your illustration though~

We'd probably have more luck with genetic shenanigans and stem cells/organ growing before actually transplanting a brain, aye.


I used some strawberry-scented shampoo (try saying that ten times fast :roach:) earlier today - unfortunately, it seems that the scent either got rinsed out somehow or the conditioner covered it up. >.<

It's really good shampoo, though. It feels like silk~ :smallbiggrin:

Always fun, was using a strawberries'n'cream conditioner and shampoo for double moisturizing action before I cut my hair. I usually found that unless I was using an inordinate amount of shampoo it'd be almost completely lost in the conditioner, especially as I rarely completely rinsed the conditioner out of my hair.

[Asta Kask]

V=Vaarsuvius of course.


Speaking of un-related topics, can you help me better understand what transexual means? I looked at the dictionary thing in the OP, but its stil kind of confusing to me.

Would this (http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2012/03/13/a-transgender-manual-of-style/) help?

[supernerd]

On what is transsexual/transgender
Well I know that until this thread I had no idea. Now I admire MtF's and FtM's courage and dedication for having one of the hardest fights to be themselves.

On a different note! Had an extremely awkward talk with my father about my sexuality. He thinks my "problem" is that I enjoy masturbation, and while that is accurate, it is nowhere near what he thinks it is. He thinks that whenever I'm in the bathroom for more than five minutes I'm masturbating. It's just the only place where no one will look over my shoulder because I'm not allowed to lock any door other than the ones leading out of the house. And I'm just a little paranoid, so yeah.

This is probably because I've never told him about my emotions regarding the subject. I just told him a bit less than 12ish hours ago in the conversation about the event that made me seriously concider that I might actually like men. Apparently I'd been able to dismiss the fact that from the age of 11 I've fantasized about sleeping with guys, even before I kew the mechanics of sex, when gay was a word I never knew until sixth grade, when it was still just something lurking in the shadows that you should never become.

But he doesn't know that.

Sometimes I wish telepathy was granted to first level commoners...

[noparlpf]

Are you being serious here? :smallwink:


Also, hell no, people would never go for that.:smallbiggrin:

Depends on the day. Some days I wax cynical.


Jonathan Swift, A Modest Proposal. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal)

I wrote that when I was ten!
And then my mum told me somebody else had already done it. :\


Ehm. I dislike the "wrong bodies" thing. It's like... Until we can trans (ha) plant brains, it's still your body after SRS/HRT/FFS. I like your illustration though~

Wrong hormones/plumbing?


Va-gynosexual? :smalltongue: Veritasexual, attracted to the ideal of truth.
Omega is clearly a reference to the differing etymologies of the first and second half of most orientations, with one being latin and the other being Greek.

On a more serious note, they're jokes~! :smalltongue:

~ ♅

That mixed-roots thing has always bothered me a little for some reason.

[Laser Frog]

They are not anything but humor my dear. Trololol and what not. Well the omega is humor at least. With all the terms no, V could actually stand for something.
Ω = V/A, obviously. [/engineer]

I was actually wondering what was meant by that too, Squidbreath, so don't feel clueless.

[noparlpf]

Ω = V/A, obviously. [/engineer]

I was actually wondering what was meant by that too, Squidbreath, so don't feel clueless.

If I weren't repressing my memories of Physics II, I would find this more amusing. I don't like the teaching style of writing exams way above the level of the class so that the really devoted students can excel.

[pffh]

Ω = V/A, obviously. [/engineer]

I was actually wondering what was meant by that too, Squidbreath, so don't feel clueless.

Personally I'm against Ohm sexuals they are too resistant.

[Laser Frog]

Personally I'm against Ohm sexuals they are too resistant.
Ah hah! That must mean it represents people who repress (or resist) their sexuality! Makes perfect sense.

[Serpentine]

So apparently I have a transexual friend now? A friend from high school. I'm still somewhat ambivalent about him anyway, because he used to be a complete a-hole and a frequent liar. We talked about it a while ago and they said they've changed, but we haven't really had much contact since then and it's hard to shake 5 years of impression, y'know? And she's started hormones without talking to a psychologist (just an endocronologist), which makes it self-diagnosis which I'm opposed to in general anyway.
So yeah. Lots of ambivalence :/
But also support regardless. I mentioned this thread and some resources that've come up here a lot, in case she wants 'em.

[Astrella]

So apparently I have a transexual friend now? A friend from high school. I'm still somewhat ambivalent about him anyway, because he used to be a complete a-hole and a frequent liar. We talked about it a while ago and they said they've changed, but we haven't really had much contact since then and it's hard to shake 5 years of impression, y'know? And she's started hormones without talking to a psychologist (just an endocronologist), which makes it self-diagnosis which I'm opposed to in general anyway.
So yeah. Lots of ambivalence :/
But also support regardless. I mentioned this thread and some resources that've come up here a lot, in case she wants 'em.

What's with the pronoun jumping? :smallconfused:
Eh, I disagree with you; because being trans* is self-identified; gender therapists are a guide, not a "you have to comply to X, Y and Z to be trans" sort of folk. (Or should be at least.) As long as she (what are their preferred pronouns; your post doesn't really make it clear) is getting her bloodworks done it should be no issue.

[turkishproverb]

So apparently I have a transexual friend now? A friend from high school. I'm still somewhat ambivalent about him anyway, because he used to be a complete a-hole and a frequent liar. We talked about it a while ago and they said they've changed, but we haven't really had much contact since then and it's hard to shake 5 years of impression, y'know? And she's started hormones without talking to a psychologist (just an endocronologist), which makes it self-diagnosis which I'm opposed to in general anyway.
So yeah. Lots of ambivalence :/
But also support regardless. I mentioned this thread and some resources that've come up here a lot, in case she wants 'em.


Two quick things.

1. Trans almost always starts self-diagnosed. It's kinda how it works.

2. Living unsure about yourself and/or in the closed breeds instinctive lies While I don't know the specifics, I'm inclined to wonder how much had to do with that.

[Anethiel]

What's with the pronoun jumping? :smallconfused:

Two "he", two "she", two "they": I guess the paragraph is intentionally written to be gender neutral (statistically, at least).


Eh, I disagree with you; because being trans* is self-identified;

Trans almost always starts self-diagnosed. It's kinda how it works.

I think Serpentine was criticizing the self-prescription of hormones rather than the self-diagnosis of transgenderism. (By the way, is "diagnosis" appropriate in this context? It seems a little off, to me.)

[KenderWizard]

The rest of your post was pretty damn good, as usual, but this specific part? Hilariously awesome. Sigging this. :smallbiggrin:

Oh my gosh! :smallbiggrin:


My only real objection would be that "sexualorientationism" is truly horrible in terms of aesthetics. It assaults both my eyes and my ears, and it even tastes strange when I say it. I think I would probably avoid it for those reasons even if it were in common use.

Edit: That was probably a bit overdramatic.

I understand. I can't think of a better word, though. I suppose just "orientationism" also works. Also not great. But sometimes words aren't very good. Like "globule", or "floorboard".


Re Spoon theory:

The only issue I have with that is that healthy people don't really have infinite spoons either. They just have way more than the disabled/ill person. I think it's more like... a flashlight battery. It recharges when you rest, but sick/disabled people have bad batteries that work less and charge less. A healthy person not resting and overworking, though, will soon have less and less charge at the start of the day.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say "infinite", I meant to say "near infinite". And I'm counting from best case scenario. A lot of the time normally healthy people will lose spoons to a cold or bad night's sleep or whatever.


I didn't get the article from your link for some reason. Did you mean this one (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory-written-by-christine-miserandino/)? 'Cause I kind of agree with bluewind; we have more spoons, but not infinite spoons. Say you have twelve a day, I probably have forty-eight or something like that.



Or like when legitimate allies are excluded from any kind of movement.



*checks drawer*
In fact, I only have two spoons. But I have a couple of forks too. Can those count as honorary spoons?



So, I decided to take the advice of a friend whose judgement I trust over my own. He's a sensible kind of guy. I'm not going to the thesis shindig tonight (which is kind of obvious as I'm typing this because it started forty-five minutes ago), but I am going to email the girl about my concerns*. I feel like that might be a better way of going about it anyway considering how little chance I got to speak last time, and I don't have much patience for being called an ******* without being allowed to state my case (that was a different girl, not the thesis one). I also don't feel up to arguing the case that asexual counts as "queer" and that we're underrepresented; I'm kind of tired today after moving all my furniture yesterday and sleeping poorly last night. Started out with a dozen fewer spoons that usual, but at least I'm aware that I'm fortunate enough to have those spoons to spare.

*(And I'm going to apologise for last time too; I later found out that they had allowed guys in for the first half hour and then made them leave so the girls could have a safe space, which is better than what I thought with the partial information I acted on. I still kind of disagree with that, ideally, but the world isn't an ideal place and I can sort of understand not wanting to talk about more personal aspects of one's sexuality around the opposite sex, though honestly I personally wouldn't want to talk about personal things of any sort around strangers or near-strangers of the same sex.)

Yes, that is the story I meant. I agree with you on the rest of your points. And I think your plan is a good one. Let us know if the thesis lady gets back to you!

[noparlpf]

Two "he", two "she", two "they": I guess the paragraph is intentionally written to be gender neutral (statistically, at least).

I think Serpentine was criticizing the self-prescription of hormones rather than the self-diagnosis of transgenderism. (By the way, is "diagnosis" appropriate in this context? It seems a little off, to me.)

Didn't she say this person had seen an endocrinologist or something like that? The only self-anythinging was the self-identification as trans. (I think MtF, based on the structure of the paragraph, but that's just my guess.)


I understand. I can't think of a better word, though. I suppose just "orientationism" also works. Also not great. But sometimes words aren't very good. Like "globule", or "floorboard".

I dislike "rural". It's hard to say.


Sorry, I didn't mean to say "infinite", I meant to say "near infinite". And I'm counting from best case scenario. A lot of the time normally healthy people will lose spoons to a cold or bad night's sleep or whatever.

Yes, that is the story I meant. I agree with you on the rest of your points. And I think your plan is a good one. Let us know if the thesis lady gets back to you!

Will do. I emailed her last night, apologising for my behaviour last time and asking for some clarification about the purpose of last night's talk.

[Astrella]

I think Serpentine was criticizing the self-prescription of hormones rather than the self-diagnosis of transgenderism. (By the way, is "diagnosis" appropriate in this context? It seems a little off, to me.)

They are seeing an endocrinologist. (And a lot of trans* people are on DIY hormones because of how much gatekeeper there can be coming from therapists.)

[Arachu]

I imagine that being a couple of centuries after the fact would diminish the impact you felt, especially as it is regarded as one of the classics with all of the stigma that entails.

The subtlety is hardly relevant in this day and age, though I seem to recall that it caused a bit of a scandal amongst its target audience.

Well, people joke like that all the time these days. Plus, the whole being-printed-as-a-pamphlet bit threw a lot of them off.

I bet it wasn't half as confusing as the one that claimed that the one that predicted a bunch of his rivals' deaths was accurate, though. :smalltongue:


Always fun, was using a strawberries'n'cream conditioner and shampoo for double moisturizing action before I cut my hair. I usually found that unless I was using an inordinate amount of shampoo it'd be almost completely lost in the conditioner, especially as I rarely completely rinsed the conditioner out of my hair.

I left it in for a while, rinsed it and re-applied it before using just enough conditioner to cover everything. Turns out there's a bit of scent higher on my head, but I was hoping for it to get my bangs... >.<

Maybe it'll get stronger the more I use it? :wishfulthinking?:


V=Vaarsuvius of course.

Attraction to megalomaniacs of indeterminate gender?

Oh yeah, I'm all over that. :smallbiggrin:


On what is transsexual/transgender
Well I know that until this thread I had no idea. Now I admire MtF's and FtM's courage and dedication for having one of the hardest fights to be themselves.

On a different note! Had an extremely awkward talk with my father about my sexuality. He thinks my "problem" is that I enjoy masturbation, and while that is accurate, it is nowhere near what he thinks it is. He thinks that whenever I'm in the bathroom for more than five minutes I'm masturbating. It's just the only place where no one will look over my shoulder because I'm not allowed to lock any door other than the ones leading out of the house. And I'm just a little paranoid, so yeah.

This is probably because I've never told him about my emotions regarding the subject. I just told him a bit less than 12ish hours ago in the conversation about the event that made me seriously concider that I might actually like men. Apparently I'd been able to dismiss the fact that from the age of 11 I've fantasized about sleeping with guys, even before I kew the mechanics of sex, when gay was a word I never knew until sixth grade, when it was still just something lurking in the shadows that you should never become.

But he doesn't know that.

Sometimes I wish telepathy was granted to first level commoners...

*Holds tightly* I know about half of your pain... I had my own bathroom in my other room, and my dad decided from early on that it was "his", so he'd randomly move through a lot.

Also he has the strangest way of assuming that I'm doing that when I'm not and having no idea that I am when I am. Maybe I'm just so sneaky that there aren't any real signals to pick up on? :smallconfused: :smalltongue:


So apparently I have a transexual friend now? A friend from high school. I'm still somewhat ambivalent about him anyway, because he used to be a complete a-hole and a frequent liar. We talked about it a while ago and they said they've changed, but we haven't really had much contact since then and it's hard to shake 5 years of impression, y'know? And she's started hormones without talking to a psychologist (just an endocronologist), which makes it self-diagnosis which I'm opposed to in general anyway.
So yeah. Lots of ambivalence :/
But also support regardless. I mentioned this thread and some resources that've come up here a lot, in case she wants 'em.

As someone who's never had access to a psychologist of any kind, I can't help but be a little offended by the implication that someone needs one to know who she is. :/

At any rate, thanks for supporting her. We need all the help we can get. :smallsmile:

[KenderWizard]

At any rate, thanks for supporting her. We need all the help we can get. :smallsmile:

Speaking of which!

The theme for this year's Rainbow Week at college was Trans* Rights and although, once again, I wasn't able to be much involved, I did, once again, ask for their posters! These were all around campus:

Know Your Trans Friends:

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/KnowYourTransFriends2012.jpg

How to be a Trans Ally:
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/HowtobeaTransAlly2012.jpg


Think Outside the Box! (two posters)
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxTick22012.jpg

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxCircle22012.jpg

What do ye think?

[Coidzor]

For saying to think outside of the box, they certainly were rather box-focused. :smalltongue:

Mostly though the logo is distracting. It's like a reverse check-mark J or something. WHAT IS THIS THING!? :smallconfused:

Is the whole sex assigned at birth thing the usual convention over in Ireland and the UK? Because over here I only ever have heard of it with regards to surgical alteration and choosing to assign a sex to a baby born with ambiguous genitalia. Something I hear has been dropping off in recent years in favor of waiting to see how the child develops first.

[Mina Kobold]

I think it's a Q, making it Q soc or Queer Society. :smallsmile:

And now I am imagining a 19th century Royal Society for the Study of the Queer peopled entirely by storks in pink tophats. O_o

No, I have no idea what is going on in my head either.

On a less maddening note, I wish I could check outside the gender box norm. But I am always too scared that it will mess up the legitimity of the form. ._.

[Astrella]

Is the whole sex assigned at birth thing the usual convention over in Ireland and the UK? Because over here I only ever have heard of it with regards to surgical alteration and choosing to assign a sex to a baby born with ambiguous genitalia. Something I hear has been dropping off in recent years in favor of waiting to see how the child develops first.

It's fairly common terminology used in trans* and intersex oriented circles.

[Coidzor]

It's fairly common terminology used in trans* and intersex oriented circles.

Ah. Is it meant to sound like they're looking to blame someone for it or is that just a tangential side-effect?

[KenderWizard]

For saying to think outside of the box, they certainly were rather box-focused. :smalltongue:

Mostly though the logo is distracting. It's like a reverse check-mark J or something. WHAT IS THIS THING!? :smallconfused:

Is the whole sex assigned at birth thing the usual convention over in Ireland and the UK? Because over here I only ever have heard of it with regards to surgical alteration and choosing to assign a sex to a baby born with ambiguous genitalia. Something I hear has been dropping off in recent years in favor of waiting to see how the child develops first.

They do love their boxes. :smallwink:

Keveak is right; it's a Q. It's new. They are officially the "Trinity LGBT Society", but they've unofficially put "Qsoc" in their logo. It took me a minute to get it the first time I saw it too - I just thought it was some kind of rainbow-explosion-circle random shape logo.

And I think "sex assigned at birth" means "sex society assumes you have based on the genitalia you come out with when you're born". "Assigned" being fairly neutral in this context, more like "given automatically" than "forced upon". It's kind of up to how you, the reader, view these things; you could interpret it just as easily as "given innocently in good faith, since it's most likely, and it's really hard to raise children without making some assumptions about them before they can communicate effectively", rather than a blaming thing.

[Lea Plath]

It hasn't been a very good week, what with pet worries, PC troubles and other problems begining with a P. So I need my weekly dose of adorableness.

Where is little Shiro and their updates when you need them?! :smalltongue:

And on the UK assigned sex thing, from what I understand it is pretty normal for a sex to be assigned, with some cases where the parents do things like bring up the child completly gender neutral and let them decide.

[Coidzor]

"given innocently in good faith, since it's most likely, and it's really hard to raise children without making some assumptions about them before they can communicate effectively"

You truly and legitimately believe that it would be worth mentioning if that was all that was meant? :smallconfused:

It has to mean at least something for it to appear in the same sense and general placement with that much regularity.

[Viera Champion]

Where is little Shiro and their updates when you need them?! :smalltongue:

What? Where?:smallconfused:

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's just Mitchell Shiro talking to himself!

Well... Um... Let's see. I wanna take him to a place called Longwood Gardens (http://www.longwoodgardens.org/) for our next date. It's a beautiful place, very romantic.

He was also telling me about his school's Ring Dance next fall, where all the Juniors get their class rings, and then have a big dance. Nothing says fun like a gay couple at a Catholic School dance.:smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

Speaking of which!

The theme for this year's Rainbow Week at college was Trans* Rights and although, once again, I wasn't able to be much involved, I did, once again, ask for their posters! These were all around campus:

Know Your Trans Friends:

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/KnowYourTransFriends2012.jpg

How to be a Trans Ally:
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/HowtobeaTransAlly2012.jpg


Think Outside the Box! (two posters)
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxTick22012.jpg

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxCircle22012.jpg

What do ye think?

I like it!

And was I the only one to get it immediately? Wait, Keveak seems to have also. It's pretty clearly a Q with a fancy rainbow triangle-tail; the triangle is because the group is called a trinity.

[Triscuitable]

It hasn't been a very good week, what with pet worries, PC troubles and other problems begining with a P. So I need my weekly dose of adorableness.

My cats are sleeping in the exact same position. I'll get a pic up soon.


Where is little Shiro and their updates when you need them?! :smalltongue:

Why am I never called upon for my voice of stupid? :smallamused:


And on the UK assigned sex thing, from what I understand it is pretty normal for a sex to be assigned, with some cases where the parents do things like bring up the child completly gender neutral and let them decide.

I think this is the way to do it. In the US, genders are given based on your gentials, and that's it. Boy, girl. I agree that the unassigned gender system is brilliant, just let the kid do what they feel like doing, and let the kid decide who they want to be.

[Mutant Sheep]

What? Where?:smallconfused:

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's just Mitchell Shiro talking to himself!

Well... Um... Let's see. I wanna take him to a place called Longwood Gardens (http://www.longwoodgardens.org/) for our next date. It's a beautiful place, very romantic.

He was also telling me about his school's Ring Dance next fall, where all the Juniors get their class rings, and then have a big dance. Nothing says fun like a gay couple at a Catholic School dance.:smallbiggrin:

:smallbiggrin: That'd be fun. Painful too, considering where it is and the previously mentioned students going there. But fun.:smalltongue:

[Lea Plath]

He was also telling me about his school's Ring Dance next fall, where all the Juniors get their class rings, and then have a big dance. Nothing says fun like a gay couple at a Catholic School dance.:smallbiggrin:

It could be worse. You could be the only vampire at a Jehova's Witness dance :P


My cats are sleeping in the exact same position. I'll get a pic up soon.

Can you add a funny comically misspelled caption?



Why am I never called upon for my voice of stupid? :smallamused:
Your powers are too great to be called on willy nilly!



I think this is the way to do it. In the US, genders are given based on your gentials, and that's it. Boy, girl. I agree that the unassigned gender system is brilliant, just let the kid do what they feel like doing, and let the kid decide who they want to be.

That works, but there will probably have to be a big social change for that to happen, one I don't see coming for a long time. People will try and force you to obey the common archtypes and percived social norms.

[Viera Champion]

It could be worse. You could be the only vampire at a Jehova's Witness dance :P

Worse? I get to dance with my boyfriend. Who the hell cares where it is, it couldn't be better.:smallredface:

[Triscuitable]

It could be worse. You could be the only vampire at a Jehova's Witness dance :P

HEY! I take NO OFFENSE to that whatsoever! I left the Watchtower a long time ago. As in, my parents did. I was unborn. :smalltongue:

[noparlpf]

Worse? I get to dance with my boyfriend. Who the hell cares where it is, it couldn't be better.:smallredface:

Well, you know, a Catholic school with a bunch of unaccepting and potentially violent people might not be the best place to go on a date.

[Coidzor]

Worse? I get to dance with my boyfriend. Who the hell cares where it is, it couldn't be better.:smallredface:

The implied statement, going from the subtext and history of harassment, that they would turn violent or spew bigotry all over your shoes, ruining them, I imagine.

[Viera Champion]

Well, you know, a Catholic school with a bunch of unaccepting and potentially violent people might not be the best place to go on a date.


The implied statement, going from the subtext and history of harassment, that they would turn violent or spew bigotry all over your shoes, ruining them, I imagine.

I know, I know. But he is the one who invited me, and I trust him to not do such a thing if he was worried about anything too bad happening.

[supernerd]

What? Where?:smallconfused:

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's just Mitchell Shiro talking to himself!

Well... Um... Let's see. I wanna take him to a place called Longwood Gardens (http://www.longwoodgardens.org/) for our next date. It's a beautiful place, very romantic.

He was also telling me about his school's Ring Dance next fall, where all the Juniors get their class rings, and then have a big dance. Nothing says fun like a gay couple at a Catholic School dance.:smallbiggrin:

Well I'm gonna be coming out at the reception for my Eagle Court of Honor, but as long as you don't get attacked successfully, I'm sure the look on their faces would be fun


[COLOR="Navy"]*Holds tightly* I know about half of your pain... I had my own bathroom in my other room, and my dad decided from early on that it was "his", so he'd randomly move through a lot.

Also he has the strangest way of assuming that I'm doing that when I'm not and having no idea that I am when I am. Maybe I'm just so sneaky that there aren't any real signals to pick up on? :smallconfused: :smalltongue:

Heh, well I guess I'll just have to deal with it.

[Coidzor]

I know, I know.

Then why feign ignorance when someone mentioned being a mythological creature that is kill on sight worthy as a worse alternative?

[golentan]

I know, I know. But he is the one who invited me, and I trust him to not do such a thing if he was worried about anything too bad happening.

Yeah, but things can go very wrong very fast. I hope you'll have a perfect evening, but I also hope you'll remember to be careful.

And I hope we will one day live in a world where those sentiments wouldn't both naturally flow from 2 guys going to a school dance.

[Viera Champion]

Then why feign ignorance when someone mentioned being a mythological creature that is kill on sight worthy as a worse alternative?

Because just because I know and understand what your saying, does not mean I agree.

[Coidzor]

Because just because I know and understand what your saying, does not mean I agree.

Then just say so rather than making it take up even more posts.

I must admit, considering what you've said so far, I don't see how you could disagree that there's some cause for concern and care with the bigots of that school and not affording them any more opportunity than prudent. :smallconfused:

[Viera Champion]

Then just say so rather than making it take up even more posts.

I must admit, considering what you've said so far, I don't see how you could disagree that there's some cause for concern and care with the bigots of that school and not affording them any more opportunity than prudent. :smallconfused:

I suppose it's ignorance on my part. I've never actually had a direct confrontation with homophobia before. Not knowing what it is like, the idea does not seem so worrisome to me.

[noparlpf]

I know, I know. But he is the one who invited me, and I trust him to not do such a thing if he was worried about anything too bad happening.

Want me to chaperone you guys? I could take a couple of obnoxious fifteen-year-olds. Heck, I might roll high enough on Intimidate to avoid the fight.
Now I just need to buy some sap gloves...seriously, those things would be my weapon of choice in almost any situation not involving ranged weapons, which are just cheating.

[Coidzor]

I suppose it's ignorance on my part. I've never actually had a direct confrontation with homophobia before. Not knowing what it is like, the idea does not seem so worrisome to me.

What? Most straight guys end up dealing with homophobia. :smallconfused: How did you manage that one?

[Viera Champion]

Want me to chaperone you guys? I could take a couple of obnoxious fifteen-year-olds. Heck, I might roll high enough on Intimidate to avoid the fight.
Now I just need to buy some sap gloves...seriously, those things would be my weapon of choice in almost any situation not involving ranged weapons, which are just cheating.

:smalleek:

What are sap gloves?

[pffh]

I suppose it's ignorance on my part. I've never actually had a direct confrontation with homophobia before. Not knowing what it is like, the idea does not seem so worrisome to me.

Well depending on your outfits you could bring a sabre. That should look menacing enough to scare any homophobes away :smalltongue:

[KenderWizard]

You truly and legitimately believe that it would be worth mentioning if that was all that was meant? :smallconfused:

It has to mean at least something for it to appear in the same sense and general placement with that much regularity.

Yeah, because, shockingly, even though being assigned the wrong gender at birth is bad for trans people (or anyone!), their parents aren't doing it out of spite! It's not like a baby is born with a penis and the doctor sweeps into the room and says "Good news, evil parents! I, evil doctor, have determined that this child is, in fact, a girl. But luckily, she has a penis! So we can raise her as a boy to traumatise her! I mean ... him!" and then they all laugh evilly. So it's a big deal, for a trans person, that they grew up being treated as the wrong gender, but it's an innocent thing. Yes, we should be raising children in a gender diverse way, and allowing them to explore their own gender identity and expression. But we can't know in advance of them telling us who they are, so people pick one. See the s**t those parents put up with to raise a kid gender neutral? That's really hard to do in our society. So yes. It means something. It's important. It's part of why it's so hard to be trans. But it's not an evil conspiracy. No one needs to be blamed for it, but it does need to be talked about, if that's what someone needs.


I like it!

And was I the only one to get it immediately? Wait, Keveak seems to have also. It's pretty clearly a Q with a fancy rainbow triangle-tail; the triangle is because the group is called a trinity.

Actually, it's called "Trinity LGBT" because the college is Trinity College. :smallsmile: But triangles are a symbol for gay people, aren't they? But I think the triangle in this case is just a coincidence. It's hard to avoid simple shapes in a logo!

[noparlpf]

:smalleek:

What are sap gloves?

Gloves with a pouch on the top full of steel shot. It adds weight, and protects the knuckles and hands somewhat.

[Viera Champion]

What? Most straight guys end up dealing with homophobia. :smallconfused: How did you manage that one?

I said DIRECT dear. I even italicized it for you. You know, as in direct confrontations of it, where someone legitimately said something to me in a way as to personally attack me, or anything physical for that matter.

[Arachu]

Speaking of which!

The theme for this year's Rainbow Week at college was Trans* Rights and although, once again, I wasn't able to be much involved, I did, once again, ask for their posters! These were all around campus:

Know Your Trans Friends:

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/KnowYourTransFriends2012.jpg

How to be a Trans Ally:
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/HowtobeaTransAlly2012.jpg


Think Outside the Box! (two posters)
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxTick22012.jpg

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxCircle22012.jpg

What do ye think?

I approve. :smallbiggrin:


:smalleek:

What are sap gloves?

Leather gloves with steel powder in the knuckles. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAP_glove) They could probably bruise Superman. :xykon:

I probably shouldn't find a YouTube link, or I'll be talking about hand-to-hand weapons all day... :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Righty-o then KenderWizard. So you chose to go with moralizing instead of just saying the second one in the first place because...?


I said DIRECT dear. I even italicized it for you. You know, as in direct confrontations of it, where someone legitimately said something to me in a way as to personally attack me, or anything physical for that matter.

And I meant direct. :smallwink:

[noparlpf]

Unfortunately I'm at school in one of two states that bans sap gloves. And if I order them to my home address I have to make sure my mother doesn't find out because she says I can't have them in her house. Even though it's her father's house and I'm going to be eighteen next month.

[Viera Champion]

Right. So you chose to go with moralizing instead of just saying the second one in the first place because...?



And I meant direct. :smallwink:

Well then no. No one has ever said anything particularly rude to my face (not on purpose anyways), nor have I ever experienced any violence because of such things. The worst thing that ever happened to me, was when some kid I didn't even know called me a ****** over Facebook.

[Arachu]

...I did it. By applying the strawberries-and-cream-scented shampoo twice and mixing it with my conditioner, my hair is now smoother than I knew hair could be and it smells faintly of strawberries! And it's not even dry yet! Maniacal laughter!!! :smallbiggrin:

Now I just need to get off my lazy butt and shave... :/

[Coidzor]

...I did it. By applying the strawberries-and-cream-scented shampoo twice and mixing it with my conditioner, my hair is now smoother than I knew hair could be and it smells faintly of strawberries! And it's not even dry yet! Maniacal laughter!!! :smallbiggrin:

Now I just need to get off my lazy butt and shave... :/

One of the advantages of electric razors and trimmers, don't even have to get up if one's wearing a shirt that one is going to take off and wash soonish.

[noparlpf]

Now I just need to get off my lazy butt and shave... :/

I feel ya there. I've been meaning to shave for two days.


One of the advantages of electric razors and trimmers, don't even have to get up if one's wearing a shirt that one is going to take off and wash soonish.

Yeah but that still means taking like five whole minutes out of my busy day of procrastinating on homework!

[pffh]

One of the advantages of electric razors and trimmers, don't even have to get up if one's wearing a shirt that one is going to take off and wash soonish.

Yeah they are convenient but it's such a bad shave. Now using a straight razor that is a real way to shave, bit of a hazzle but so smooth.


I feel ya there. I've been meaning to shave for two days.

Yeah same but turn 2 days into 23 days. Stupid prostate cancer making me raise money and awareness for it by growing a mustache for a month. I do not look good with a mustache. :smallsigh:

[Arachu]

One of the advantages of electric razors and trimmers, don't even have to get up if one's wearing a shirt that one is going to take off and wash soonish.

Mine doesn't even leave trimmings (except for the occasional long one that you can just brush off) - I usually just shave in my chair anyway. It's just... All the way in the bathroom... Down the hall... :roach:

Eh, might as well do this homework first anyway. :shrug:

[noparlpf]

Yeah they are convenient but it's such a bad shave. Now using a straight razor that is a real way to shave, bit of a hassle but so smooth.

Meh, I don't like smooth. I use an electric trimmer instead so I perpetually look like I haven't shaved for a day or so. Except when I don't bother for a week. Then I just look scruffy.

[Arachu]

Yeah they are convenient but it's such a bad shave. Now using a straight razor that is a real way to shave, bit of a hazzle but so smooth.

You mean a cutthroat, or one of those multi-blade safety razors?

I might as well not be able to use safety razors - the shaving cream makes it impossible to tell whether I shaved enough, using it without cream usually irritates my skin (especially if I wet the lubricating strip - for some reason that makes it worse), and no matter what my hair's so thick it takes several passes (and about an hour)to work. And the razor gets clogged. Badly enough to necessitate using more than one every time. :smallsigh:

[pffh]

Meh, I don't like smooth. I use an electric trimmer instead so I perpetually look like I haven't shaved for a day or so. Except when I don't bother for a week. Then I just look scruffy.

I envy you. If I use a normal razor (you know gillete and what not) I need to shave twice a day if I'm going to be out and about during the evening. Stupid beard growth gives me a 5 O'clock shadow around noon.


You mean a cutthroat, or one of those multi-blade safety razors?

I might as well not be able to use safety razors - the shaving cream makes it impossible to tell whether I shaved enough, using it without cream usually irritates my skin (especially if I wet the lubricating strip - for some reason that makes it worse), and no matter what my hair's so thick it takes several passes (and about an hour)to work. And the razor gets clogged. Badly enough to necessitate using more than one every time. :smallsigh:

I mean a real knife which according to google is yes also called a cut-throat.

[supernerd]

Well depending on your outfits you could bring a sabre. That should look menacing enough to scare any homophobes away :smalltongue:

I used to recreationally fence sabre. A fencing sabre would be perfectly legal, a good weapon and would look very sexy(if you wear the right clothes). And if none of them wear heavy clothing and you know what you're doing, things can go down very much in your favor. But if you got a permit, then self defense would be in order, but then you get into all the "Necessary Force" confusing fecal matter.

[noparlpf]

I envy you. If I use a normal razor (you know gillete and what not) I need to shave twice a day if I'm going to be out and about during the evening. Stupid beard growth gives me a 5 O'clock shadow around noon.

Meh, I don't even quite have a full beard yet, the bits in the front around my mouth haven't grown in yet. But yeah, it doesn't grow that fast. Back when I used to use a manual razor and actually kept clean-shaven, I could go two or three days between shaves, but then, I was like, fifteen at the time. It comes in a bit faster now.

[Triscuitable]

Meh, I don't even quite have a full beard yet, the bits in the front around my mouth haven't grown in yet. But yeah, it doesn't grow that fast. Back when I used to use a manual razor and actually kept clean-shaven, I could go two or three days between shaves, but then, I was like, fifteen at the time. It comes in a bit faster now.

Those here who want to remain beardless, be thankful: I'm Scotch/Irish. There is literally no part of my face below nose level that does not sprout face-fur. :smallsigh: I just have a regular razor to do the job, too.

[Heliomance]

...I did it. By applying the strawberries-and-cream-scented shampoo twice and mixing it with my conditioner, my hair is now smoother than I knew hair could be and it smells faintly of strawberries! And it's not even dry yet! Maniacal laughter!!! :smallbiggrin:

Now I just need to get off my lazy butt and shave... :/

I'm shaving every day now, occasionally twice in a day if I'm going out in the evening or something. I'm getting very bored of it :smallsigh:

[noparlpf]

Those here who want to remain beardless, be thankful: I'm Scotch/Irish. There is literally no part of my face below nose level that does not sprout face-fur. :smallsigh: I just have a regular razor to do the job, too.

I have a friend who's Persian and has had a full beard since he was twelve or so.
And he managed to accidentally light it on fire once.
*Phone rings*
Me: Yo, 'sup?
Friend: Hey, I just lit my beard on fire.
Me: What!? How?
Friend: You know how you can take a lighter and cup your hand and collect the butane in your hand and then light that on fire and have fire in your hand?
Me: Yeah.
Friend: Well I just tried that with my chin.

[Triscuitable]

I have a friend who's Persian and has had a full beard since he was twelve or so.
And he managed to accidentally light it on fire once.
*Phone rings*
Me: Yo, 'sup?
Friend: Hey, I just lit my beard on fire.
Me: What!? How?
Friend: You know how you can take a lighter and cup your hand and collect the butane in your hand and then light that on fire and have fire in your hand?
Me: Yeah.
Friend: Well I just tried that with my chin.

That's hysterical. I've had to shave since I was 13 or so, but the "problem" (nuisance) escalated this year, when I suddenly had to shave every day, before and after work/school/potential date.

Oh well, enough beard-antics for me, and more bear(d) induced typos. :smallbiggrin:

[noparlpf]

I didn't have anything until I was about fourteen, and then not much.
Wait, so if I get a job this summer I'm going to have to shave?

[Triscuitable]

Wait, so if I get a job this summer I'm going to have to shave?

Depends on your ethnicity, skill with a razor blade, and a will to keep a shaven face.

[noparlpf]

German/Russian Jewish. So white? And I can't quite grow a full beard so that's out of the question. Bluh I don't like shaving.

[Arachu]

I'm shaving every day now, occasionally twice in a day if I'm going out in the evening or something. I'm getting very bored of it :smallsigh:

I actually have to shave my entire body (even the tops of my toes) every day or two to keep myself from itching too much... It's worth it when I'm done, though.

... Hooboy, I must cost a fortune in utilities. :roach:


I have a friend who's Persian and has had a full beard since he was twelve or so.
And he managed to accidentally light it on fire once.
*Phone rings*
Me: Yo, 'sup?
Friend: Hey, I just lit my beard on fire.
Me: What!? How?
Friend: You know how you can take a lighter and cup your hand and collect the butane in your hand and then light that on fire and have fire in your hand?
Me: Yeah.
Friend: Well I just tried that with my chin.

... I don't know if I should laugh it, disapprove of or deeply respect that. :smalleek:

[supernerd]

On shaving:

I'm sixteen half Colombian half American white boy, and my White shows more. I shave two to three times a week. I don't exactly like it when I go to school or something with stubble, but if I do go somewhere important, I will shave because otherwise I'll look weird and a beard clashes so much with my hairstyle. But there is this really cute 5ish guy who's like 6'2" (I'm 5'4"/5'5") that wears a full beard rather well. But I find shaving to mostly be tedious and simply don't do it because I shave before a shower, and I'm usually rushing into the shower because no matter what my mind seems to wander somewhere and I end up taking 20 minute showers in the morning. But if I get everything nice and clean shaven, I like to feel my face because it's fun and feels nice, though because I just shaved, all the microscopic cuts are bleeding, so my face is all tuggy and it feels cool. Some people have the softest faces ever!

[noparlpf]

And now for something completely different.
(Hey I'm tired, and I'm tense, and twitchy for no apparent reason. So nonsequitirs happen.)
Is there any LGBTA+ music? Like, a song that's about two women instead of a man and a woman, or involving a transgendered person?

[Coidzor]

And now for something completely different.
(Hey I'm tired, and I'm tense, and twitchy for no apparent reason. So nonsequitirs happen.)
Is there any LGBTA+ music? Like, a song that's about two women instead of a man and a woman, or involving a transgendered person?

Lady Gaga hasn't done anything obviously along those lines yet? :smallconfused:

There was a rather notorious Katy Perry song floating around for awhile, though I'd heard conflicting opinions as to whether it set LGBT individuals back a decade or was a sign of times having actually progressed.

I know that most of Elton Johns' love songs take on an entirely new context when you realize he's really talking about another man, but I don't know enough Elton John stuff to remember anything in particular.

It's almost guaranteed that songs exist. The real question is whether there's actual dedicated sub-genres.

[noparlpf]

"I Kissed a Girl"? (Or whatever it's called.) I don't like Katy Perry, though. I'm very particular when it comes to female singing voices, and hers is particularly unpleasant to me. And I just don't really like her music and lyrics.

Anyway, this happened because a song on my iPod said something about a man and a woman and I was like but what about gays?

[Viera Champion]

Lady Gaga hasn't done anything obviously along those lines yet? :smallconfused:

There was a rather notorious Katy Perry song floating around for awhile, though I'd heard conflicting opinions as to whether it set LGBT individuals back a decade or was a sign of times having actually progressed.

I know that most of Elton Johns' love songs take on an entirely new context when you realize he's really talking about another man, but I don't know enough Elton John stuff to remember anything in particular.

It's almost guaranteed that songs exist. The real question is whether there's actual dedicated sub-genres.

Yes she has. Americano is about two women together.

[golentan]

"I Kissed a Girl"? (Or whatever it's called.) I don't like Katy Perry, though. I'm very particular when it comes to female singing voices, and hers is particularly unpleasant to me. And I just don't really like her music and lyrics.

Anyway, this happened because a song on my iPod said something about a man and a woman and I was like but what about gays?

There's a much better song which I believe also goes by the name "I kissed a girl." It's cute, unlike the Katy Perry one.

[Rawhide]

And now for something completely different.
(Hey I'm tired, and I'm tense, and twitchy for no apparent reason. So nonsequitirs happen.)
Is there any LGBTA+ music? Like, a song that's about two women instead of a man and a woman, or involving a transgendered person?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVlzrvRYCh0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIvXUNp8HtU
Yes, these songs are about a woman.

[Astrella]

Just changed my name on Facebook, MSN and Skype. This is a scary thing. :smalleek:

Awesome. :) (Well, I was around for that. :smalltongue: )


*snip*

*tons of sympathy and hugs and rays of support and everything* :smallfrown:


I think the term is separationism and it has been practiced by various groups over the years. It's not an entirely stupid idea - the theory is that if you have no cishetero people there then the queer people will be able to talk without having to worry about the kyriarchy watching them. But it can also be taken too far, like when trans women are excluded from women's festivals because they're "really men".

It's a precarious balance; because I think non-queer views can certainly contribute a ton to a queer discussion; but they should always be mindful of not domination the conversation (cause that's what goes on in transphobic femimist circles for example; their pet theories of gender are more important than people's lived experiences for, and things like that.)


I like how he put that. :smallsmile:

(It's also funny how it kind of sounds like an optimistic version of something Lovecraft would've said. :smalltongue:)

How did therapy go?

Carl Sagan is amazing; he's sorta my idol with regards to why I want to teach.

Therapy went really good; a lot of talking about various things (depressiveness, clothing, social contact, support groups, ...), even covered the what's and why's of my interest in space a ton. (I tend to get obsessed about certain things for a while and then drop them, so there's the concern (which I've had a ton) that Lena is just a thing like that; I'm incredibly flaky and indecisive; but this is the first thing that feels right deep into my core; a very deep certainness and just being able to express that was really empowering.)


Today was a good day, aside from the complete lack of work achieved. I got a lovely new skirt and top (pics will be forthcoming when I have better light, assuming I remember), and got invited on a girls' night in!

Yay!


Speaking of which!

The theme for this year's Rainbow Week at college was Trans* Rights and although, once again, I wasn't able to be much involved, I did, once again, ask for their posters! These were all around campus:

Know Your Trans Friends:

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/KnowYourTransFriends2012.jpg

How to be a Trans Ally:
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/HowtobeaTransAlly2012.jpg


Think Outside the Box! (two posters)
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxTick22012.jpg

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr76/EmilyNeenan/ThinkOutsidetheBoxCircle22012.jpg

What do ye think?

Those are very much awesome. I can't really think of any issues with them and they sum up a lot of important things in a concise way. :smallsmile:


Ah. Is it meant to sound like they're looking to blame someone for it or is that just a tangential side-effect?

It's sorta is. Consider for example intersex folk. There's is / was a far bigger drive to surgically modify / socialize people with ambiguous genitalia as girls. (That's where the whole horrible line of "It's easier to make a hole than a pole" comes from; without any regards to their gender identity. (Look up the case of David Reimer as a particular vile example) So yes, I think the whole surgically altering people so they fit into one of the two boxes (not to mention how horribly binary society still is; gender isn't binary, sex isn't even binary, fiddlesticks!) is a pretty horrible and blame-worthy thing.)


It hasn't been a very good week, what with pet worries, PC troubles and other problems begining with a P. So I need my weekly dose of adorableness.

Where is little Shiro and their updates when you need them?! :smalltongue:

And on the UK assigned sex thing, from what I understand it is pretty normal for a sex to be assigned, with some cases where the parents do things like bring up the child completly gender neutral and let them decide.

Aww *hugs for nearly-name sister*


What? Where?:smallconfused:

It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's just Mitchell Shiro talking to himself!

Well... Um... Let's see. I wanna take him to a place called Longwood Gardens (http://www.longwoodgardens.org/) for our next date. It's a beautiful place, very romantic.

He was also telling me about his school's Ring Dance next fall, where all the Juniors get their class rings, and then have a big dance. Nothing says fun like a gay couple at a Catholic School dance.:smallbiggrin:

Sounds lovely~


And now for something completely different.
(Hey I'm tired, and I'm tense, and twitchy for no apparent reason. So nonsequitirs happen.)
Is there any LGBTA+ music? Like, a song that's about two women instead of a man and a woman, or involving a transgendered person?

Stockings - Suzanne Vega (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyZddrngaAE), which I'm incidentally listening to. I've heard about a genre called queercore, but I'm not really familiar with and I also remember reading an article about a brand of music coined by trans* artists, but again, I can't seem to remember much more about it.

-----

Yay for non-chronological answers. :smalltongue:

[Worira]

Of Elton John's songs, ones that stand out for LGBT subject matter include Nikita (About a Russian man, although Elton John deliberately choose a name that could be easily mistaken for feminine), Big Dipper, All the Girls Love Alice, and They Call Her The Cat, about an MtF transsexual. Freaks in Love probably counts, although it's not explicitly or exclusively about homosexual relationships.

[Kindablue]

http://www.outradio.com/

All the Girls Love Alice is my favorite Elton John song. And there's a whole subgenre called queercore if you like punk.

[Rawhide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqaUZkf52fs

How could I forget that one.

[squidbreath]

And now for something completely different.
(Hey I'm tired, and I'm tense, and twitchy for no apparent reason. So nonsequitirs happen.)
Is there any LGBTA+ music? Like, a song that's about two women instead of a man and a woman, or involving a transgendered person?
-
not exactly, but ehe first one I thought of was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30VMwsK9Ses&ob=av3e
[WARNING CONTAINS UNCENSORED FEMALE NIPPLES, THE HORROR]



There's a much better song which I believe also goes by the name "I kissed a girl." It's cute, unlike the Katy Perry one.
I Kissed A Girl by Jill Sobule [according to Wikipedia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FdwUGwasck

[noparlpf]

Female nipples are PG-13 these days. I'm old enough to watch R-rated movies in theater!

[golentan]

I Kissed A Girl by Jill Sobule [according to Wikipedia]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FdwUGwasck

That's the one.

[Triscuitable]

I've always been bothered by oversexualization in a lot of properties, but I never got why breasts were such a big deal. They're just there so that the woman can nurse a child as a matriarch, nothing else. Why they're associated with sex is beyond me.

My time in Belize proved that women there care about as much about covered their chests as they do with fashion: They don't. In fact, a large number of Belizian women I saw at the one beach I went to (I was diving offshore usually) wore "male" swim trunks. To them, it was a bathing suit. And that's why I began to question America's values on censorship.

A quick listen to Dyer's Eve reminds me that we're a culture founded on the logic that we can protect our children from stuff that isn't exactly going to be hidden from them when they're 8, or when they're 18. Of course, that song is about censorship in general, but it's Metallica; It's left up to the listener to interpret the song's concept. Seeing as the song came out in 1989, 3 years before this lovely thing called the internet, a modern interpretation is clearly going to be different.

I just noticed I'm good at internal tangents. I think my point is "America, don't censor boobs", but I wrote so much, I thought it should stay.