Goblin Characters

[Menteith]

Does anyone know of any practical reason to run a Goblin character over, well, anything? I'd really like to run one if I can find a useful benefit to it. I've been looking, but I can't anything they have that can't be duplicated by a much better race. Is there a specific sourcebook, or a Goblin Paragon I'm missing, or something that makes one of D&D's icons halfway decent?

EDIT

The best I can come up with is the Jungle Goblin variant from UA, as a LA0 way to pick up a decent climb speed and a substantial benefit to Climb checks, but that's a pretty small niche.

[Soranar]

goblins are small but still get 30 ft movement (like a kobold), they also get a +4 bonus to ride which isn't bad

One of the strongest goblins is the air goblin

+4 to DEX, -2 STR, -2 CON

Doesn't sound that great but a crossbow build which focuses solely on DEX for to hit and damage can use it effectively. As for the Con penalty the necropolitan template can take care of that.

[Particle_Man]

It is a core-only +0 LA small race with 30' and darkvision, so that is nice.

If you play 3.0 you get the Blue variant, which is the psionic goblin with a bonus to mental stats (hard to get for +0 LA races (well, gray elf has it too)).

Nice rogues, I'd say.

[Madara]

Did they change the Blue? I thought it was LA +1

Also, play a Bhuka from sandstorm. No penalties, but they get heat endurance and typical goblin stuff, and some desert abilities. It gets you entry into Walker in the Waste, or early entry if you go Archevist.

[Red_Dog]

One of my favorite NPCs for my campaign is THE most obnoxious derogatory deranged balor back-talking no BS taking Air Goblin Sorcerer nick named Sonic Sax.... I really should write a short book simply because of him. He is not THE center point of the campaign, but boy is he fun to describe ^^

With goblins IMO it all about personality. They can be extremely fun especially with constant inferiority complex combined with a powerful class.

Mechanically, yes Air goblins are absolutely a great race. A high dex build as a thief/swift hunter/dimension skirmisher[go psionic here]/warlock/etc.

*Air goblins also have no penalties[no casting stat penalties] to enter any T1 or T2 class.*

So yeah totally, go haz fun w/ some air goblins! ^^ Planar themed campaign could be fun because of where Air Goblins come from. Also don't forget, coming from Airplane means you do not need to breath... I consider this a rather important advantage ^^

[Ernir]

If you play 3.0 you get the Blue variant, which is the psionic goblin with a bonus to mental stats (hard to get for +0 LA races (well, gray elf has it too)).

The 3.5 version of the Blue has LA +1.

The poor, poor Blue. :smallsigh:

[Menteith]

Thanks for all the fast responses everyone!
I should clarify what I'm looking for - I know that it's possible to build a competitive Goblin character, but is there any unique feature that is Goblin exclusive? There are a number of different Orc specific classes and features, and far more that are only accessible through Kobolds, but I'm drawing a blank with regard to (Hob)Goblins. What are the things that makes Goblins distinct from other races?

[WildPyre]

Can't remember if they get it in 3.5 but in PF a small character gets a +4 size bonus to Stealth.

Goblins also get a +4 racial bonus to Stealth, along with a +4 dex.

So at level one with a single rank in stealth a goblin rogue should have at least a +14, making them very sneaky indeed.

***EDIT***

What system are you using specificly?

[Menteith]

Can't remember if they get it in 3.5 but in PF a small character gets a +4 size bonus to Stealth.

Goblins also get a +4 racial bonus to Stealth, along with a +4 dex.

So at level one with a single rank in stealth a goblin rogue should have at least a +14, making them very sneaky indeed.

***EDIT***

What system are you using specificly?

3.5. I'm not adverse to porting Pathfinder material if there's a specific feat or class, though.

[WildPyre]

There are a handfull of Goblin specific Traits on the PFSRD for goblins, unfortunately I don't know of any goblin specific feats or classes though.

[Leon]

Does anyone know of any practical reason to run a Goblin character over, well, anything? I'd really like to run one if I can find a useful benefit to it.

If you really want to play one then do so, worry less about the practical reasons and enjoy the character.

[Particle_Man]

Did they change the Blue? I thought it was LA +1

It is in 3.5. So you need to use the 3.0 version to have a decent Blue.

I think that goblins are ok but they obviously haven't gotten the massive support that, say, elves have gotten.

[Particle_Man]

I suppose you could make a goblin cleric. With a red cloak. He could have a very important mission for goblinkind . . .

[Draconi Redfir]

The best reason to play a goblin is because you get to play a goblin:smallbiggrin:

[Chained Birds]

Goblins get a lot of support in PF in a similar way as how Kobolds gained boosts in 3.5 (Though Kobolds are currently still on top).

Goblins have a Favored Class (Rogue) Bonus that grants them a +1 RANK in either Stealth or Ride, but as it is a RANK and not a skill point this allows for early access into prestiges like Assassin or Shadow Dancer. Not anything too big, but there might by a 3.5 class that mike work with this.

Personal favorite PF Goblin Specific Feat:

Roll With It

Prerequisite: Goblin, Acrobatics 1 rank.

Benefit: If you are struck by a melee weapon you can try to convert some or all of that damage into movement that sends you off in an uncontrolled bouncing roll. To do so, you must make an Acrobatics check (DC = 5 + the damage dealt from the attack) as an immediate action. If you succeed in this check, you take no damage from the actual attack but instead convert that damage into movement with each point equating to 1 foot of movement.

For example, if you would have taken 6 points of damage, you would convert that into 6 feet of movement. You immediately move in a straight line in a direction of your choice this number of feet (rounded up to the nearest 5-foot-square), halting if you reach a distance equal to your actual speed. If this movement would make you strike an object or creature of your size or larger, the movement immediately ends, you take 1d4 points of damage, and fall prone in that square. This involuntary movement provokes attacks of opportunity normally if you move through threatened squares, but does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature that struck you in the first place.

You are staggered for 1 round after you attempt to use this feat, whether or not you succeed.

Replace Acrobatics 1 with Tumble 4 and you've got an fine anti-charger ability.

[Menteith]

Favored Class is a PF Exclusive feature, however. Well, I've got a decent build lined up (Going to make a Jungle Air Goblin focusing on abusing Climb speed, and Crossbow Archery; who doesn't want to see a Goblin hanging upside-down from a tree volleying at people?). Thanks for the help everyone, and if anyone has any other sources, I'd welcome input!

[Bugbeartrap]

I firmly believe the best part of playing a goblin character is that you get to play a goblin character.:smallbiggrin:

On a more serious note, I think the only goblin specific class in 3.5 is the Stonedeath Assassin from races of stone. Not too shabby but nothing too crazy either. If you are looking for goblin sub-species, Drow of the Underdark has a mutant goblin with wacky magic abilities.

[Cieyrin]

Goblins have a Favored Class (Rogue) Bonus that grants them a +1 RANK in either Stealth or Ride, but as it is a RANK and not a skill point this allows for early access into prestiges like Assassin or Shadow Dancer. Not anything too big, but there might by a 3.5 class that mike work with this.

Not quite, as normal Favored Class bonuses also say skill rank, so unfortunately that ability is basically useless. :smallannoyed:

[dsmiles]

I really can't think of any mechanical reasons to play a Goblin, but they're fun as heck to play, and that's enough for me.

[Menteith]

I really can't think of any mechanical reasons to play a Goblin, but they're fun as heck to play, and that's enough for me.

Goblin can qualify you for Knifefighter and Swift and Silent, both from PgtF - unfortunately, a host of other races can as well. Jungle Goblins are incredibly good climbers (easily managing +18 or higher on Climb checks at level one, with the ability to always take 10), which is sort of handy depending on the campaign. Air Goblins are a LA +0 race with +4 Dex and not terrible penalties, and can be taken alongside Jungle if it's allowed (they don't replace the same features). Stonedeath Assassin is....alright. I've seen worse PrCs, and too be honest, it has potential to be playable. Oh well, looks like there wasn't a hidden sourcebook I didn't know about. Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Morty]

Goblins don't get it nearly as bad as hobgoblins who get slapped with LA +1 for little reason.
But yes, they don't get a whole lot in terms of mechanical advantages unless you count "one of the few monster races that are actually playable" as one. I like using a homebrew version of goblins that removes the Charisma penalty and gives them +1 to reflex saves.
And while I generally loathe the way Pathfinder does goblins - and other monstrous races for that matter - that feat is made of win.

[Particle_Man]

If the entire party are goblins, you could all take the swarmfighting feat. :)

[Taelas]

Their small size combined with a 30 ft. movement speed is pretty unique, as far as I know. Most casters like being small, as the penalties don't mean anything, and the bonuses are just that. Goblin wizards and druids aren't half bad; they're as good as halflings in that regard (at least until you bring strongheart halflings into the mix).

They also have a total of +4 Hide and +4 Move Silently, so that's good.

It's not a very powerful race in 3.5, but look at the Pathfinder version sometime. It has +4 Dex, +8 stealth (they just lumped the Hide and Move Silently bonuses together), and otherwise is the same as the 3.5 version.

If you can get your DM to approve the additional +2 bonus to Dex, the goblin's suddenly looking rather good.

[Draconi Redfir]

I firmly believe the best part of playing a goblin character is that you get to play a goblin character.:smallbiggrin:

On a more serious note, I think the only goblin specific class in 3.5 is the Stonedeath Assassin from races of stone. Not too shabby but nothing too crazy either. If you are looking for goblin sub-species, Drow of the Underdark has a mutant goblin with wacky magic abilities.

Well judging from your name i know who i should avoid from now on :smalltongue:


Back on topic, in pathfinder anyways goblins get a +4 to the ride skill and a decent dex bonus i beleive. Perhaps a mounted fighter?

[bungo_underhill]

Goblinoids have exclusive access to the Stonedeath assassin class from Races of stone, and Darguun Mauler is a nice chain/flail fighting feat in Races of Eberron.

I wish they'd have done a Races of the Goblin (or whatever) book for 3.5...

[Menteith]

Goblinoids have exclusive access to the Stonedeath assassin class from Races of stone, and Darguun Mauler is a nice chain/flail fighting feat in Races of Eberron.

I wish they'd have done a Races of the Goblin (or whatever) book for 3.5...

I'd even take a halfway decent Goblin paragon class. Also, I agree that Hobgoblins have no business being LA +1 - compare them to basically any decent LA+1 template (Mineral Warrior, Dark, Half Minotaur, Lloth Touched, Feral) or even stuff like Goliaths and it just can't stand up. It's a shame too, since Hobgoblins have decent flavor for mooks, and could be taken in a number of different ways.

[Bugbeartrap]

Well judging from your name i know who i should avoid from now on :smalltongue:

That is from the hilarious coincidence of my friend's bugbear paladin actually stepping in a bear trap during Expedition to Castle Ravenloft.

Although the racial hit dice did not do him any favors.

[Novawurmson]

There are several Pathfinder-specific goblin feats (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats). Control+F goblin to find them all. Most of them are more flavor than fun, but there's a few gems in there.

Note that Pathfinder Goblins are VERY good at sneaking around; +4 racial bonus to Dex, small (+4 to Stealth), +4 racial bonus to stealth means they've got a +10 to stealth just from their race.

[Greenish]

Their small size combined with a 30 ft. movement speed is pretty unique, as far as I know.Kobolds, whisper gnomes, anthropomorphic monkeys, beguilers, jermlaine and tasloi wish to discuss with you the meaning of the word "unique".

[Thurbane]

Goblins kinda fill the same niche that Kobolds used to before all the draconic shenanigans came on board.

[Essence_of_War]

On the topic of the blue...

If your DM can be convinced to either upgrade the blue to the pathfinder version (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/races/blues-psionics-unleashed) for the same +1 LA, or to change the blue to +0 LA (where it should be!) they can be great.

They make excellent lurks, psychic rogues, or psions.

[Tokuhara]

I debated with a DM once, presenting a case that Hobgoblins didn't deserve their +1LA, and he gave me them for 0LA. That said, Kingdoms of Kalimar did Hobbies justice, making them an available 0LA race, as well as introducing the Half-Hobgoblin, children of men and hobs.

Myself, I've played a Dark Goblin Shadow Assassin(Homebrew class that was the lovechild of Shadowdancer, Shadowcaster, Assassin, and Rogue)/Shadowdancer in a 3.P game and found myself able to do silly things with my Racial +10 to Stealth, Hide in Plain Sight, Shadow Mysteries, and Sneak Attack. This, combined with a good friend of mine's Drow Wizard using Darkness to hide me by tinkering with lighting and making me effectively invisible. Good times...

[milothethief]

Does anyone know of any practical reason to run a Goblin character over, well, anything?

For one, the opportunity to role-play a goblin... OTHER practical reason could be serving as a guide for the PCs while travelling through goblinoid territories, or a chance to act selfishly, greedily, and somewhat deceivingly with the PCs.

[Tokuhara]

For one, the opportunity to role-play a goblin... OTHER practical reason could be serving as a guide for the PCs while travelling through goblinoid territories, or a chance to act selfishly, greedily, and somewhat deceivingly with the PCs.

and likewise, the tinkerer aspect given by Blizzard.

[Menteith]

For one, the opportunity to role-play a goblin... OTHER practical reason could be serving as a guide for the PCs while travelling through goblinoid territories, or a chance to act selfishly, greedily, and somewhat deceivingly with the PCs.

That's entirely doable with any race, though - and if I ran a Goblin, I wouldn't run it as a straight stereotype, anyway. Running a character locked into a role on race seems really boring to me.

[milothethief]

Running a character locked into a role on race seems really boring to me.

This sentence makes it seem as if you aren't very interested in the role of a goblin character as much as you're interested in the statistical aspects...?

[dsmiles]

and likewise, the tinkerer aspect given by Blizzard.Not to nitpick, but Goblins were tinkerers long before Blizzard came along. (See Gretchen/Grotz in WH40K (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Grotz)). :smalltongue:

[Menteith]

This sentence makes it seem as if you aren't very interested in the role of a goblin character as much as you're interested in the statistical aspects...?

I'm not interested in running a bog standard example of a race. I would plan on how living in a NE, primitive culture would have shaped my character. I would make sure I took note of the near universal inferiority Goblins have to just about every race. I would love to take a background and make an exemplar of Goblinhood, who both embraces his culture and improves it, who could do fantastic things and change the world. I would not enjoy running a stereotype, least of all one that isn't terribly interesting, fun to play (or play with), and causes intergroup conflict.

[dsmiles]

Maybe get your GM to approve a Goblin Paragon class, a la UA. :smallwink:

[WildPyre]

Little know goblin fact. Goblins were the first to domesticate the chicken and they invented shoes, back before the age of man and before their culture was decimated by the oppressive bugbear regime. The barbaric and militaristic bugbears conquered the goblin society and drove them into slavery that goes on to this day. Having been forbid books or any proper education even the goblins themselves eventually forgot about their noble past, having been reduced to a savage and supersticious society living in filth and in fear of their bugbear overlords.


It's sad really. :smallfrown:

[Cieyrin]

I'm not interested in running a bog standard example of a race. I would plan on how living in a NE, primitive culture would have shaped my character. I would make sure I took note of the near universal inferiority Goblins have to just about every race. I would love to take a background and make an exemplar of Goblinhood, who both embraces his culture and improves it, who could do fantastic things and change the world. I would not enjoy running a stereotype, least of all one that isn't terribly interesting, fun to play (or play with), and causes intergroup conflict.

That depends entirely on what setting we're talking about. Iron Kingdoms gobbers are fairly integrated with society as workers and bodgers. Eberron goblins had an ancient kingdom that was the height of society at the time and they have a country where, though not the only race, they can reside and are protected by the laws so that adventurers don't just go in and slaughter them without repercussions from the local militias. Blues, when they can overcome their fellow goblins' superstitions, tend to put their superior intelligence to increase their and their tribe's state of living and place in the world. So no, there isn't just one stereotype and limiting yourself to one is just stupid. Being a goblin doesn't just mean playing a pygmy savage that wants to eat your cat.

[Menteith]

That depends entirely on what setting we're talking about. Iron Kingdoms gobbers are fairly integrated with society as workers and bodgers. Eberron goblins had an ancient kingdom that was the height of society at the time and they have a country where, though not the only race, they can reside and are protected by the laws so that adventurers don't just go in and slaughter them without repercussions from the local militias. Blues, when they can overcome their fellow goblins' superstitions, tend to put their superior intelligence to increase their and their tribe's state of living and place in the world. So no, there isn't just one stereotype and limiting yourself to one is just stupid. Being a goblin doesn't just mean playing a pygmy savage that wants to eat your cat.

Agreed - that's why I disagreed with running a goblin to "act selfishly, greedily, and somewhat deceivingly with the PCs."

[Particle_Man]

See if your DM will let you play a Nilbog. Don't know if they exist in 3.5 but in 1st edition they were like goblins but damage healed them and cure spells hurt them. So like undead only wayyyyyy better. :smallsmile:

Don't know what the LA would be on that.

[Novawurmson]

Oh, and every goblin discussion needs a little Goblin Defense Fund (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/points.html).

[Cieyrin]

See if your DM will let you play a Nilbog. Don't know if they exist in 3.5 but in 1st edition they were like goblins but damage healed them and cure spells hurt them. So like undead only wayyyyyy better. :smallsmile:

Don't know what the LA would be on that.

Bhu homebrewed a 3.5 version here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6420019&postcount=711).

[Ivellius]

It has been said, but goblins even in 3.5 core are halfway decent--they essentially take a Cha hit in order to get a faster movement speed. They sneak around really well and make good Int or Wis casters.

If you own a copy of the XPH, note that the blues (at least in my version) are given no LA in the stat block. So just show that to your DM and hope he doesn't turn the page, maybe. That really is one of the strangest things, and I don't know why they gave them a level adjustment in the SRD.

(However, hobgoblins need a +1 LA because their stats are better than 0 LA races. It's not actually worth the additional level, but it is free stats.)

[Marnath]

Oh, and every goblin discussion needs a little Goblin Defense Fund (http://www.goblindefensefund.org/points.html).

Wow, that site... wow. I thought it was a joke at first but then I read some more and they sound serious.:smalleek: Somebody needs to chill out and realize goblins are not a thing that really exists.

[Cieyrin]

(However, hobgoblins need a +1 LA because their stats are better than 0 LA races. It's not actually worth the additional level, but it is free stats.)

How? Compare to Lesser Planetouched like Lesser Aasimar and Lesser Tieflings. They have similar stat spreads yet LA +0. Same for elemental races like Air Goblins, Water Orcs, Fire Elves, etc. They have more going for them than regular Hobgoblins yet don't suffer that LA cost. They definitely ride the high side of LA and that may just be edition creep in effect but Hobs and Blues are definitely on the high side of the LA +0 than the low side of LA +1.

[Menteith]

How? Compare to Lesser Planetouched like Lesser Aasimar and Lesser Tieflings. They have similar stat spreads yet LA +0. Same for elemental races like Air Goblins, Water Orcs, Fire Elves, etc. They have more going for them than regular Hobgoblins yet don't suffer that LA cost. They definitely ride the high side of LA and that may just be edition creep in effect but Hobs and Blues are definitely on the high side of the LA +0 than the low side of LA +1.

Additionally, Hobgoblins are just, well, boring. Even if their stats justified LA1 (which they don't), they've got Darkvision, a boost to MS, and the stats. My DM and I have been talking about it - he's seriously considering changing that Dex bonus to Str, the MS bonus to Intimidate, and giving them Martial Study at initiator level 1, to actually have the crunch match the fluff and buff them.

[Coidzor]

Agreed - that's why I disagreed with running a goblin to "act selfishly, greedily, and somewhat deceivingly with the PCs."

well, yeah. that's a good way to get OOC words with you as a player or your character abandoned to its fate...

[Kuulvheysoon]

Forestkith Goblins (MM3, pg 64) get a treeshape ability (as cast by a 12th level druid), and nets as a martial weapon.

For the High-Op among the playgrounders, they also get a +4 on craft (weaving); unfortunately, it's only for nets.

[Menteith]

well, yeah. that's a good way to get OOC words with you as a player or your character abandoned to its fate...

Although it's an oddly apt way to describe typical PC behavior :D

[mabriss lethe]

Goblins also make a rather fun chassis for a charger. Yes, they take a hit to strength, but they also get a lot of other advantages out of it.
-racial bonus to ride checks
-small size means they can use a medium mount and take it most places that other characters can't.

Just take a few levels in fighter for the basic suite of mounted feats and/or pick up access to white raven maneuvers. It's really all it takes to get a decent start on a mounted goblin.

Besides, who wouldn't love to play as this guy (http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkwkeaHyFD1qfxj58o1_250.jpg)

[IdleMuse]

AFAIK Air Goblin is unique in its +4 dex on an ECL0 humanoid chassis.

[shadow_archmagi]

I too asked this question. I searched long and hard and found that no, there really wasn't much goblin specific material, and what there was wasn't actually any good at all.

I even paid ten dollars for a third party book Cromagh's Guide to Goblinoids and found that it had nothing of value.

[Coidzor]

There's a homebrew thread around these parts. Though it's devoted more to Orcs and hobgoblins, IIRC.


Although it's an oddly apt way to describe typical PC behavior :D

Usually not with each other unless we've got different definitions of somewhat deceptively, as that's ye olde problem player/PVP-land basic premise setup.

[Particle_Man]

Bhu homebrewed a 3.5 version here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6420019&postcount=711).

Yee gods! The OP should just go to the thread that came from for all his goblin needs.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75120

and its sequel thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10685554#post10685554

[Menteith]

Yee gods! The OP should just go to the thread that came from for all his goblin needs.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75120

and its sequel thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10685554#post10685554

Wow. Alright, looks like I have some reading to do! Thanks a million!

[Cieyrin]

Wow. Alright, looks like I have some reading to do! Thanks a million!

Bhu's been at it for a while, yes. There were other contributors for creating a Races of the Horde type thing like the other Races and Bhu just went full steam ahead on PrCs, feats, races and substitution levels.