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View Full Version : Dementist Casters - Summoners who create from insanity



PotatoNinja
2012-03-19, 10:24 PM
Diclaimer: This class is based off the Dementist Casters in the MTG book Chainer's Torment. I do not own the rights to the ideas. This is a fan made and out of love. Hopefully true to the ideals replication of the feel and mechanics of a Dementist Caster into the D&D world of 3.5.

I am looking for:

People very familiar with summoning in 3.5 to provide feedback on mechanics.
People Familiar with the stories/books in which dementist casters are used to help provide flavor and feedback on the feel of the caster itself.

Dementist Casters devour the souls of fallen foes, using the memories to fuel their Spells. Madness warps their minds, and many walk the streets only half aware of the reality they stumble around in. The difference between madness and the real world is often only a breath away, and a dementist caster often doesn't come back from the madness alone. Through his immersion into Insanity, he is able to alter the creatures he summons into the very essence of a living Nightmare.

Few live long, most succumb to the insanity after only a few short years. This short lived life span means only a very select few Dementists have ever risen to the rank of legendary. This tendency towards short lives is not indicative of a chaotic life, merely one where the lines between reality and ones own subconscious mind is often blurry or nonexistent.


Prerequisites
Able to cast Second level Arcane spells
Feats Augmented Summoning
Alignment Any Evil or Neutral
Base Attack Bonus +1
Base Save Bonus Will +4
Knowledge Arcana 8

D4

The Dementists class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level
2 + Int modefier



{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fortitude Save|Reflex Save|Will Save|Special|[center] Spells Per Day|Minor Remembrances Known|Intermediate Remembrances Known|Major Remembrances Known|


1st|+1|+0|+0|+2|Dementist Summoning, Minor Remembrance (1)| +1 Level of Existing Class|1|0|0|
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Intermediate Remembrance (1)| +1 Level of Existing Class|1|1|0|
3rd|+2|+1|+1|+3|| +1 Level of Existing Class|2|1|0|
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|| +1 Level of Existing Class|2|2|0|
5th|+3|+1|+1|+4|| +1 Level of Existing Class|3|2|0|
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|| +1 Level of Existing Class|3|3|0|
7th|+4|+2|+2|+5|| +1 Level of Existing Class|3|3|0|
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Minor Remembrance (2)| +1 Level of Existing Class|4|3|0|
9th|+5|+3|+3|+6|| +1 Level of Existing Class|5|4|0|
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Major Remembrance (1)| +1 Level of Existing Class|6|4|0|
11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|| +1 Level of Existing Class|6|4|1|
12th|+6/1|+4|+4|+8|| +1 Level of Existing Class|7|5|1|
13th|+6/1|+4|+4|+8|Intermediate Remembrance (2)| +1 Level of Existing Class|7|5|2|
14th|+7/2|+4|+4|+9|| +1 Level of Existing Class|8|5|2|
15th|+7/2|+5|+5|+9|Minor Remembrance (3)| +1 Level of Existing Class|8|5|3|

[/table]


]Dementists Summoning: A Dementist summons creatures by envisioning the creature in their own minds and then calling them forth into reality. As a dementist progresses in levels, their minds begin to slip into insanity, and their mind begin to deceive them into remembering falsehoods. The false images quickly become real nightmares. Creatures Immune to ability drain or creatures under the effect of a spell mimicking such ability drain cannot use Remembrances.

Minor Remembrance: Starting at first level a Dementists mind has become warped and is no longer able to correctly recall the features of the creatures he is attempting to call forth. Any creature called forth by the Dementist may appear with grotesque and abhorrent features that could only be conceived in the mind of a lunatic. At 8th level, as the dementists mind slips even further into insanity, each creature summoned may have up to 2 different Minor Remembrances in affect at one time. At 15th Level, the dementist is capable of producing three Minor Remembrances simultaneously. Each Minor Remembrance drains one point of wisdom when a creature is summoned using it. The wisdom returns immediately upon the loss of the summon.

Elemental:The creature being called forth gains a type of elemental affinity (Sonic, Fire, Lightening, Acid, or Cold) that grants it an additional 1d6 die of damage of its chosen type on successful attacks. This affinity offers no immunities, benefits, or other gains other than the damage dice.

Extra Head: The creature being called forth has a second head. This head is only capable of making attacks if the creatures original head was also capable of making attacks. The extra head also grants a +10 circumstance Bonus to all spot checks as well as allowing for an additional use of Breath Weapons.

Two Extra Arms: The Creature being called forth has two additional arms. The limbs the creature gains are the same type of the base creature and do not grant it any additional attacks unless it is already capable of using it’s limbs for attacks.

Compound Eyes:Grotesque insectiod compound eyes replace the normal eyes of the creature, Grating it a +10 circumstance bonus to Spot Checks

Grasshopper Legs:Long chitonous legs replace the hind legs of the creature, offering it a +30 Racial bonus to Jump Checks. If the creature already has a Racial jump modifier, use whichever is larger.

Genetic Alteration (Strength): The creature being summoned is superior in strength compared to other members of its race. The dementist may add 2 Strength to the creature’s ability score. The bonus stacks with all other bonuses.

Genetic Alteration (Dexterity): The creature being summoned is superior in Dexterity compared to other members of its race. The dementist may add 2 Dexterity to the creature’s ability score. The bonus stacks with all other bonuses.

Genetic Alteration (Constitution): The creature being summoned is superior in Constitution compared to other members of its race. The dementist may add 2 Constitution to the creature’s ability score. The bonus stacks with all other bonuses.

Genetic Alteration (Intelligence): The creature being summoned is superior in Intelligence compared to other members of its race. The dementist may add 2 Intelligence to the creature’s ability score. The bonus stacks with all other bonuses.

Genetic Alteration (Wisdom): The creature being summoned is superior in Wisdom compared to other members of its race. The dementist may add 2 Wisdom to the creature’s ability score. The bonus stacks with all other bonuses.

Genetic Alteration (Charisma): The creature being summoned is superior in Charisma compared to other members of its race. The dementist may add 2 Charisma to the creature’s ability score. The bonus stacks with all other bonuses.

Sticky Hide: The skin of the summoned creature is covered in a sticky glistening substance that grants it a continual spider climb effect using it’s base speed or 20 feet, whichever is slower.

Poison: If the creature possess a natural attack and no natural pre-exhisting poison, it then gains a poison that deals 1d6 an intial 1d6 dex damage and no secondary damage. The save DC for the poison is 18. If the creature already has a Poison, increase the save DC by 2.
Damage Resistance: The creature become impervious to mundane forms of damage and gains DR 5/Magic

Fast Healing: The creature’s wounds stitch themselves up within seconds, granting it a Fast Healing rate of 3 per round.
Natural Armor: The creature is covered in extra patches of scales, chitin, armour plating, or exceptionally tough hide. This bonus grants it 4 natural armor

Intermediate Remembrances: As the Dementist begins to lose grip on reality, the hellish regions of their own minds creep ever closer to the surface, their ability to express themselves furthers in the twisted incarnations brought forth. Intermediate Remembrances drain 2 points per remembrance used of wisdom when a creature is summoned using them. The wisdom returns immediately upon the loss of the summon.

Four Extra Arms: The Creature being called forth has four additional limbs. The limbs the creature gains are the same type of the base creature and do not grant it any additional attacks unless it is already capable of using its limbs for attacks.

Breath Weapon: The creature is capable of producing a random breath weapon based on size, modeled after a dragon.
Line Cone
Tiny 30 ft. 15 ft.
Small 40 ft. 20 ft.
Medium 60 ft. 30 ft.
Large 80 ft. 40 ft.
Huge 100 ft. 50 ft.
Gargantuan 120 ft. 60 ft.
Colossal 140 ft. 70 ft.
Reflex for half DC is 10 + half hd + con mod
2/day 6d6 /type

Poison +: If the creature possess a natural attack and no natural pre-exhisting poison, it then gains a poison that deals an initial 1d6 con damage and 1d6 con secondary damage one minute later. The save DC for the poison is 22. If the creature already has a Poison, increase the save DC by 4. This increase stacks with previous bonuses provided by Remembrances

Size Increase: The mind of the dementist can now create creatures who exceed their normal proportions. This Remembrance allows the dementist to increase the size category of one summoned creature per casting by one stage. This size increase stacks only with a size increase granted by a higher level Remembrance.

Damage Reduction: The creature become impervious to mundane forms of damage and gains DR 10/Magic

Fast Healing +: Almost before they appear, the creature’s wounds heal themselves up before a drop of blood can scarely be spilled. This Remembrance grants a creature a Fast Healing rate of 6 per round.

Natural Armor: The creature is covered in large swathes of scales, chitin, armour plating, or exceptionally tough hide. This Remembrance grants it 8 natural armor.

Major Remembrances: The last step before a fragile mind is completely broken, the Major Remembrance, is a darkness that few souls can claim to escape from unharmed. Each Major Remembrance drains 3 points of wisdom when a creature is summoned using one. The wisdom returns immediately upon the loss of the summon.

Spell Resistance: The Dementist seems to recall magic not affecting the creatures he summons forth. Spells harmless fizzle in midair when targeting the creature. This innate resistance to magic is equal to the monsters HD + 12.

Poison ++: If the creature possess a natural attack and no natural pre-exhisting poison, it then gains a poison that deals an initial 1d6 con damage and 1d6 con secondary damage one minute later. The save DC for the poison is 26. If the creature already has a Poison, increase the save DC by 6. This increase stacks with previous bonuses provided by Remembrances

Size Increase: The mind of the dementist can again envision larger creatures who exceed their normal proportions. This Remembrance allows the dementist to increase the size category of one summoned creature per casting by one stage. This size increase stacks only with a size increase granted by a lower level Remembrance.

Damage Reduction++: The creature become impervious to many form of attack, baring only the most assured strikes from harming it. This Remembrances grants it DR 15/-

Fast Healing ++: The creatures healing abilities make a troll blush as the wound seal themselves up at an eccelerated rate. Tale tells of weapons becoming stuck in a creatures hide before it could be pulled back out. This Remembrance grants a creature a Fast Healing rate of 9 per round.
Natural armour: The creature is completely covered in scales, chitin, armour plating, or exceptionally tough hide. This Remembrance grants it 10 natural armor.


I know the list of Remembrances is somewhat lacking right now, but i am open to any and all additions, changes, tweaks, and modifications to the system, please, please, please, input freely and openly on ideas you think would be cool, or provide feedback on ways to balance or fix the mechanics.

I am also looking to add more flavor and minor abilities to their barren list of class features. I know they're casters and in no way really require even MORE stuff to make them nice, but i don't like the bare list of progression there.

Narciso Bizarro
2012-03-20, 08:57 PM
i found this long time ago searching for homebrewed dementist, after reading Chainer's Torment (soooo good book).I don't remember where i get it, but i hope it helps you.

Dementist
Shaping his insanity like a canvas, working his nightmares like clay, a dementist uses the horrific warping of his own mind to bring nightmarish creatures into being. Any creature he's fought and bested becomes his weapons, and he gains the ability to bring these twisted memories of what once was a material creature into the world to fight alongside him. An entire army lies within his brain, just itching to burst out – and further accentuating the distortion in his own mind.
Hit Die: d4.

Requirements
Alignment: Any nonlawful
Spellcasting: Able to cast 2nd-level arcane spells
Spellcasting: Must have access to the
Conjuration and Transmutation schools of magic (must not be prohibited classes)
Knowledge (The Planes): 8 ranks
Special: In addition, the character must undergo a special magical ritual, in which the character's Wisdom score is reduced to 1d4+2.

Class Skills
Balance, Concentration, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Spellcraft
Skill Points at Each Level: 2+Int modifier.

Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Dementia Space, Disquieted Mind
2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Dementia Absorption, Dementia Casting
3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Expanded Dementia Space
4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|
5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|
6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Expanded Dementia Space, Nightmare Defences
7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Dementia Multi-Casting
8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|
9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|
10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Master Dementist

Spells Per Day: +1 level of existing spellcasting class at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th level

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Dementists gain proficiency with all simple weapons, and with light armor.

Dementia Space: Contained within the dementist's mind is a demiplane, called his dementia space, crafted from twisted, warped visual images of the dementist's earliest memories – his birthplace, childhood fears, even dreams or nightmares the dementist might have had as a child. This plane is a 500 square foot area, shaped however the dementist wishes – part this area is a hazy void. At 3rd level, the dementia space expands to an area of 1500 square feet. At 6th level it expands to 3000 square feet.
The dementist can transport himself bodily into his dementia space, as the plane shift spell. He can transport only himself, 50 lbs. of gear, and up to 3 other willing creatures.
Dementia space is hazardous however – many dementists are tempted to stay in their dementia space forever, abandoning the Material Plane to literally live in their own little world. When a character enters his own dementia space, and every minute spent thereafter, he must make a Will save with a DC equal to 10+his dementist level. If this save is failed, the dementist immediately takes 2d6 permanent Wisdom drain, and he remains in his dementia space unless someone else forcibly extracts him from it. Even then, he must take another Will save against the same DC to regain his mental faculties and have the Wisdom drain turn into temporary Wisdom damage that heals at the normal rate. If he fails the save, he will do everything in his power to return to his dementia space. If he is unable to do so (due to a dimensional anchor or similar spell) he may make a new Will save every 1d4 minutes.
Any character in a dementia space that is not his own must make a Will check every turn (DC 10+dementist's level) to avoid taking 1d6 Wisdom damage.
A dementist can leave his dementia space at any time as a free action and be deposited on the Material plane right where he was when he left. Once he does so, any other characters who were in his dementia space with him are also ejected.
All aspects of this ability are supernatural effects.

Disquieted Mind: A dementist's brain is a raging maelstrom, and it is nigh impossible to make sense of anything going on in there. A dementist is immune to mind-influencing effects of all kinds. This is an extraordinary ability.

Dementia Absorption: At 2nd level, a dementist gains the supernatural ability to absorb a living, corporeal creature with negative hit points into his dementia space. He must make a Charisma check (DC 11+the creature's HD).
If he succeeds, the creature is sucked into the dementist's mind, deposited in his dementia space. The creature has the Nightmare creature template applied to it, and is restored to full hit points, with any subdual or ability damage removed. The creature is thenceforth completely under the dementist's control, as a Dominate Monster spell, but completely unbreakable.
The dementia space can hold as many creatures as will fit in its area. Any more creatures are killed and their bodies hurled into the Astral Plane.
A dementist in his dementia space can alter all sorts of cosmetic physical traits of the creatures he's pulled in. Size of limbs, changing skin to scales, adding a tail or nonfunctional wings, or changing a fanged maw into a wicked hooked beak can all be done by the dementist as a standard action.
The dementist should feel free to experiment with the creatures to come up with something that is pleasing to him. He can even change a few minor combat-related things – change a claw attack into a slam attack, or a fire-based breath weapon into a cold-based one, or something to that effect. The DM should decide whether a change is okay, or if it would increase the creature's combat stats too much.

Dementia Casting: At 2nd level, a dementist gains the ability to summon forth, as a standard action, any Nightmare creature in his dementia space. This ability is as a Summon Monster spell of a spell level equal to his dementist level – 1 (For example, a 5th-level dementist would cast it as a Summon Monster IV spell). The creature lasts one round per dementist level, then is returned to its dementia space. He cannot have more HD of monsters outside his dementia space than his total character level at one time.
At 7th level, a dementist can cast multiple copies of a single Nightmare creature. He still cannot have more HD of monsters outside his dementia space than his total character level at one time.

Nightmare Defences: At 6th level, the creatures within a dementist's mind can help him to throw off enchantments and other mind-influencing effects. The dementist adds +1 to his Will save for every 2 HD (round down) of creatures in his dementia space, to a maximum of +10.

Master Dementist: At 10th level, the dementist has demonstrated true mastery over his mind, his dementia space, and his Nightmare creatures. He gains 2d4+4 Wisdom points, becoming lucid once again. He is no longer subject to a Will save to avoid becoming trapped in his own dementia space. He can travel to his dementia space even if under the effects of a dimensional anchor or similar spell, or within an antimagic field. In addition, his dementia space is of unlimited size, and the number of HD of Nightmare creatures he can bring outside his dementia space at one time increases by 50%.



I figured that while the class has a lot of very powerful abilities, just taking a level in the class is risky enough to balance it out (dump your Wis down to 2-5, and have to put what's left at risk just to be able to use your central class ability). Once you hit level 10 though, those risks are pretty much tossed out the window and it's probably broken.

Anyways, I mentioned a Nightmare template. Here is that:

Nightmare
A dementist absorbs creatures into his dementia space, but he does not pull them in as-is. The transition from a material, corporeal creature with thoughts and feelings, into the imaginary friend of a madman is obviously not a kind one, and often creatures are horribly warped and twisted by the experience.

Unlike other templates, the dementist can go into his dementia space and alter the specifics of this template by giving up 300 XP and taking 1 temporary Wisdom damage. For example, he could give a creature damage reduction, but later decide he wanted it to have spell resistance instead, and change it.
Creature Type: Changes to Aberration

Hit Dice: Changed to D8.

AC: The dementist can add up to +1 natural armor for every 2 dementist levels he has, for a maximum of +5. This can also be added on top of the creature's existing natural armor. In addition, if the creature had nonnatural armor (like scale mail or full plate, etc), the dementist can exchange up to +3 of that for natural armor.

Attacks and Damage: The dementist can swap out various attack types – bites for slams, or claws for tentacle rakes, or the like, but otherwise same as the base creature.

Special Qualities: The nightmare gets special immunities and turn vulnerability, plus damage reduction, regeneration, or spell resistance (dementist's choice – but not even a wish spell can allow a creature to have more than one of these abilities at a time).
Damage Reduction: The creature's body seems to shed all sorts of blows, giving it damage reduction 15/+1.
Spell Resistance: The creature gains spell resistance 10 + the base creature's HD.
Regeneration 5: Silver and positive-energy attacks deal normal damage to a Nightmare creature. The creature cannot regenerate lost limbs.
Immunities: Nightmare creatures are immune to mind-influencing affects, sleep, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects. Not subject to subdual damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.
Turning Vulnerability: Nightmares can be turned or destroyed just like undead. They can be rebuked, but not commanded.

Abilities: The dementist chooses two out of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution to give +2 to. The creature has no Intelligence score, and its Wisdom score becomes 2.

Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature +2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Same as the dementist
Advancement: None

So, thoughts? I wanted to rename the dementist, dementia space, and nightmares to something a bit less "taken directly from the book", but that's what I got so far. I'm not even sure if they count as copyrighted, which is another reason why I want to change them a bit.

Also, is the class broken, or is the risks inherent in taking the class enough to balance it, or are they too much and it's pointless to even take the class?

EDIT: Meep! How could I have forgotten their semi-signature piece of equipment? :smallbiggrin:

Dementist Goggles

A dementist uses these metal goggles with thin, glass slits in the front to prevent the creatures he has summoned from recognizing him in the Material Plane. This, along with the enchantment over the goggles, can prove to be a vital aid in taming them and controlling them. The number of HD of creatures that a dementist can have outside his dementia space is increased by 2 if he is wearing Dementist Goggles.
Caster level: 8th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, 2 or more levels of the Dementist prestige class, alter self. Market Price: 5,600 GP; Weight: 3 lbs.

PotatoNinja
2012-03-21, 01:58 PM
i found this long time ago searching for homebrewed dementist, after reading Chainer's Torment (soooo good book).I don't remember where i get it, but i hope it helps you.

I'm familiar with this variant, and i love the flavor that it recreates. Unfortunately, it has done several things that i found hard to reconcile, you can see several of his elements tied some what into mine. (thank you for the response though, as im VERY happy to see other people who liked the idea!)

I guess since your familiar with the other one, i'll do a little analysis of what i like and dislike from it so that maybe we can start creating something that works a little better.

I debated Weather or not to make it a 10 level PrC shoot as well, but i didn't think 10 levels to be enough to offer the diversity a dementist can bring forth.

The Nightmare template is very similar to what i have created, straight down to the wisdom damage being dealt for each ability added, i love the idea that the more that is tweaked, the more into insanity the caster must delve.

ok, ok brain fart, lets move onto the topic that really interests me the most about his post, his ability to capture the flavor and produce mechanics for dementia space. I tried very hard to create such a thing, but wound up not being able to find a comfortable balance.

My main thought at this point is to Either do extensive work on dementia space, or simply recreate an entire list of alternate summons for a dementist


The main issues i see with this particular version of dementia space is that it allows for almost to much freedom. It allows for a dementist to summon forth creatures that could very easily over shadow what any other summoner might only be able to dream for. Part of me loves it, part of me sees very wide discrepancies in power and capability, but also alot of room for abuse.


Now, i love that flavor wise, dementist SHOULD be able to absorb just about anything into their space, chainer does it several times. Unfortunately, you start to run into situations that make me as a DM very uncomfortable, mainly where the list of what a player can do versus what the DM must keep track with, begins to get exstensivly long. I know this can be curbed with DM only "allowing" certain creatures to be encountered. I don't like the idea of limiting my players, but at the same time, the amount of book keeping that must be done is staggering. I don't mind if the player does the book work for me, but often i find lazy players who dont like the book work as well.

SO, lets look mechanically at the summon monster IX spell and compare , for illustration, how absurd some of this can get.


SM IX allows you to summon an Elder elemental, 24 HD, something a dementist could never do. On the same list is a Bearded Devil, 12 HD, As well as a Fiendish colossul Spider, with 32 Hit Die. There is a wide varience already in the number of hit die allowed, and the dementist space offered is both too restrictive and to powerful at the same time.

It only allows for so many HD worth of critters to be summoned, which means that you're limited very much in the type/size of creatures you can bring out, at the same time, it places no limits on what you can take in, meaning, if you had the chance, you could capture say, a solar (i know the charisma check for this would be absolutely insane, but minmaxers everywhere could abuse this to no ends, and i KNOW gate can already do this, but gate also is a per cast deal, this dementist space, as far as i read it, can be used any number of times per day and or based on the number of creatures you ingest. You could ingest plenty of solars and that would lead to a major abuse of power)

I very much want to meld the idea of dementist space being able to hold virtually any creature, but then you ALWAYS lead to the problem of exactly where to limit what a dementist can bring in, as many many creatures have amazing SLA's.

I'm awarethe the summoners list of creatures from non core sources has the same issue, tons of creatures to replicate SLA's, but for the most part the SLA's are nothing absolutely borked, and tend to be exclusively included because of their ability to NOT break the game. This only bothers me because...

I am trying to create a class that is ass far from DM adjudication as possible. I do not want a class that constantly relies on a DM's permission or interpretative process, it should be able to function on its own, in any setting.


The mechanics of spending time in dementia space are spot on flavor wise, but much to harsh

I do like his Nightmare template, and considered making one similar to it, i might still give all summoned creatures such a template, but keep remembrances to allow for a base nightmare, with the ability to further customize its capabilities.

Any ideas on how to better implement a Dementia space without breaking summoning into a virtual CF of broken madness? I had also considered limiting the type of creatures to non sentient, but chainer clearly i able to suck in even other humans and avian type peoples.