Urine and Purify Food and Drink?

[Jon_Dahl]

Is it allowed by RAW or RAI for a person to survive by casting a 0th-level spell on his/her urine and drinking it?

This would theoretically keep a character alive for a very long time...

[sol_kanar]

I think that, RAW, could work.

Also, Bear Grylls would approve of that :-)

[D@rK-SePHiRoTH-]

Paul Atreides approves

[Keneth]

Why would you need to purify urine? It's disgusting but otherwise quite clean and healthy as it is. You'd be better off using Prestidigitation to make it taste like lemonade.

[Heliomance]

Repeatedly drinking your own urine won't sustain you forever. It's full of waste products, and while they're safe to drink, they'll get dumped straight out into your urine again, in addition to the waste products that batch would have already. Net result is that your urine gets more and more concentrated. Purifying it stops that problem.

[Dimers]

Why would you need to purify urine? It's disgusting but otherwise quite clean and healthy as it is. You'd be better off using Prestidigitation to make it taste like lemonade.

The old rule-of-thumb from the Boy Scouts of America is that you can drink your own urine about seven times before toxicity builds up to a significant level.

EDIT: @OP: Other bodily functions drain water from the body, including sweating and breathing. I've had plenty of days when I sweated a higher volume of water than I urinated. Purify food and drink would help, yes, but the longevity of that scenario is pretty limited.

[Keneth]

Eh, I missed the part where he wants to be doing that repeatedly. Then yes, eventually you're gonna need to purify it, but even so you won't be crossing any deserts. Create Water solves this problem nicely, especially in Pathfinder where you can make unlimited amounts of water. :smallbiggrin:

[tiercel]

Given that purify food and drink will purify poison and ruin unholy water, I don't see why it wouldn't purify urine just fine.

On the other hand, you face diminishing returns -- all the water you drink doesn't wind up in your urine (sweat, for one thing), so while this strategy will help, it's not a solution in and of itself.

[Apparently I type too slow as this has already been mentioned, ah well.]

And that still leaves the problem of eating food, if you have to go more than three days. (Please, let's not try to invoke purify food and drink for this problem.)

[Heliomance]

And that still leaves the problem of eating food, if you have to go more than three days. (Please, let's not try to invoke purify food and drink for this problem.)

Well, it could make it safe, but it couldn't restore nutrients, so there'd be little point. But why do you say three days? You can go without food for about 3 weeks without dying.

Rules of thumb: 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.

[Garwain]

Ironically, you wouldn't be able to survive on 'create water', as this spell creates pure water, without the necessary electrolytes.
The beste strategy would be to mix your purified urine, and mix it with created water with prestidigitation to make it taste like lemonade.

[Jon_Dahl]

Create Water solves this problem nicely, especially in Pathfinder where you can make unlimited amounts of water. :smallbiggrin:

In this I'm trying keep a clan of Bedouins alive in the desert with an Adept or two. Create water will not sustain many people, but the tactic from OP would have a massive effect.
I'm going to rule that this trick works seven times and that's it => Time to find water.

[Keneth]

Ironically, you wouldn't be able to survive on 'create water', as this spell creates pure water, without the necessary electrolytes.

This spell generates wholesome, drinkable water, just like clean rain water.
Nothing in this description implies that the created water is completely pure H2O. In fact it seems to be quite the opposite. Let's not bring this level of real life physics into the discussion because then we'd have to determine exactly what substances should be considered "poison" and how the purify spell is able to determine that and in what manner it actually purifies, among other things.

[Rejusu]

This is why I just try and avoid the question of food and drink in most of my games. Last game I was an Elan. One power point a day kept me sustained. This game? Everfull mug and Everlasting rations.

[Ravens_cry]

Yes, this would work. Purify than prestidigitate it to taste like (and perhaps look) like your favourite drink. Simple.

[Suddo]

Sustaining life in a desert can be done with a combination of Create Water and Purify Water. Note it won't be a desert for long. Oh and looking deep into the inter workings of D&D is how you get a Tippyverse.

[Crasical]

This spell makes spoiled, rotten, diseased, poisonous, or otherwise contaminated food and water pure and suitable for eating and drinking.

I don't know and don't want to know the precise chemical components of urine, but it might fall outside of the purview of 'water' that can be purified by this spell.

[Infernalbargain]

I would rule that it makes all of your feces disappear with the exception of any corn you ate because corn is indestructible (I also rule that corn is immune to disintegrate).

[Keneth]

Corn is automatically immune to Disintegrate anyway because it is living but not a creature. Same with trees and most other plants. :smallbiggrin:

[Kaeso]

Also, Bear Grylls would approve of that :-)

I just prepared my spells for today...

...better drink my own piss

[Ravens_cry]

I don't know and don't want to know the precise chemical components of urine, but it might fall outside of the purview of 'water' that can be purified by this spell.
Why? It's 95 percent (http://www.ivy-rose.co.uk/HumanBody/Urinary/Urinary_System_Composition_Urine.php) water.

[Toofey]

Yes, this would work. Purify than prestidigitate it to taste like (and perhaps look) like your favourite drink. Simple.

Given the predilection that led to the thread does this mean the caster would be purifying it then turning it back into pee?

[Ravens_cry]

Given the predilection that led to the thread does this mean the caster would be purifying it then turning it back into pee?
Prestidigitation will only make it look and taste like urine, but strictly speaking it won't be until an hour or so later.

[tiercel]

But why do you say three days? You can go without food for about 3 weeks without dying.

Rules of thumb: 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water, 3 weeks without food.

I was referring to the game mechanic for starvation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#starvationAndThirst): after 3 days you have to start making Con checks or take nonlethal damage and become fatigued (which you can't heal 'til you eat).

Of course, the game mechanic is kinda screwy, because a literal reading of RAW seems to indicate you can't actually die directly from thirst or starvation in D&D -- it just renders you unconscious and helpless (so, presumably, it's the scavenging monsters/animals that actually kill you, or some environmental effect that you can no longer resist).

[Ravens_cry]

I believe there is a rule that if you continue to take non-lethal damage once you reach unconsciousness, additional non-lethal damage is converted to lethal damage.
I may be mistaken however.

[Coidzor]

Why though? If you're really in a situation that lasts that long, you should have leveled up to the point where someone could just cast create food and water.

D&D doesn't do dedicated extended survival situations very well, and if that's really going to be the focus of the game one would be better served by going outside of the system. And if it's not going to really be the focus of the game, it's just ultimately pointless bookkeeping and busywork, like most supply-tracking.

Mostly just makes the DM/player sound like they're trying to scandalize by being shocking for shock's sake. :smallconfused:

[dgnslyr]

Why? It's 95 percent (http://www.ivy-rose.co.uk/HumanBody/Urinary/Urinary_System_Composition_Urine.php) water.

Well, by that rationale, seawater's mostly water, with a salinity of "only" 3.5%, so Purify Food and Water couldn't turn salt water into fresh water.

Somehow, I have a feeling looking too deeply into the intricacies of magic is a path to madness. Flesh is mostly water, but there's stuff getting in the way of making it drinkable, so could Purify Food and Water render a corpse down into water?

[Coidzor]

Well, by that rationale, seawater's mostly water, with a salinity of "only" 3.5%, so Purify Food and Water couldn't turn salt water into fresh water.

I don't see how saying that urine should be purifiable would go on to say that seawater would not be purifiable. :smallconfused:



Somehow, I have a feeling looking too deeply into the intricacies of magic is a path to madness. Flesh is mostly water, but there's stuff getting in the way of making it drinkable, so could Purify Food and Water render a corpse down into water?

Mostly isn't done because it's just too Fremeny. :smalltongue:

[dgnslyr]

Erm, well, apparently my brain are borked, and I can't reading comprehension anymore, or I picked the wrong bit to quote. This can't be a good sign.

Using Purify Food and Drink as a magic deathstill seems pretty appropriate for a fictional group of desert-dwellers, though.

[MukkTB]

Stuck in a McDonalds playplace?










Time to drink my own piss.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, by that rationale, seawater's mostly water, with a salinity of "only" 3.5%, so Purify Food and Water couldn't turn salt water into fresh water.

I don't see why sea water could not be turned into fresh water with the spell, being "contaminated" as per the spell description with salts and pathogens.
The creepiest reading I ever heard of the spell was that it also ritually purified the food and drink in question.
Meaning?
It made otherwise foods that it would be wrong to eat be allowable.
The example given was human flesh.

[danzibr]

Why would you need to purify urine? It's disgusting but otherwise quite clean and healthy as it is. You'd be better off using Prestidigitation to make it taste like lemonade.
I realize others have said it, but...

Yeah, it gets deadly after a while.

[ericgrau]

You do realize that create water is also a level 0 spell, and could work a lot better.

[Ravens_cry]

You do realize that create water is also a level 0 spell, and could work a lot better.
Well, if you have enough impure water, PFaD is more efficient as it works on one cubic foot per caster level, approximately eight gallons, rather than two gallons per caster level for Create Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/createWater.htm).
That's a lot of urine.
Someone mentioned Dune earlier. I just thought it worth mentioning that Sandstorm has magic still suits.