Level Spread in Your Worlds?

[SowZ]

What is the level spread in the worlds you guys run? Just curious. I've played in high level worlds and low level worlds. Sometimes there are worlds where an epic character or someone level 12+ is not uncommon and sometimes you'll never see them except as villains. What games do the playgrounders play?

I'll give an example. But you don't have to format yours like this or even read through mine. You can just ballpark average levels, too.

Most People: Level One, some competent people Level Two
Long-Lived Races: Level Two, some competent people Level Three
Most Military People: Level One Warrior for recruits and trainees, Level One Fighter for those with formal training or those living in highly militaristic cultures. Level Two for veterans, (maybe 30% of the army.) Level Three for Sergeants and exceptional soldiers, (maybe 10%.) Level Four+ is reserved for heroic figures and make up 1% or less.
Military of Long Lived Races: Same as above but everything is bumped up a level.
Expert Criminals/Mercenaries/Assassins: Most level two. Maybe 25% level 3-4. 1% level 5-9.
Heroes: Those considered heroes of the land other than PC are level 6-11 or so and there are only a handful at any one time. (Less than ten.)
Villains: A Big Bad may have a handful of lackeys at level 8-10, (four or five,) and will probably be around 14 or 15 himself. He will be the only NPC above level 12, not counting monstrous races naturally that powerful.
Monsters: The number of monsters above ECL 10 at any one time is less than 50, usually, with only 5-10 dragons existing in a given world at any one time.

[Yora]

My games are usually level 1 to 10 with a very few unique legendary NPCs of level 11 to 13.
Level 1 to 5 are the common people and starting at 6th, you start to really stand out from the crowd and enter the league of the big players.

[Kuulvheysoon]

My games are usually level 1 to 10 with a very few unique legendary NPCs of level 11 to 13.
Level 1 to 5 are the common people and starting at 6th, you start to really stand out from the crowd and enter the league of the big players.

Seconded. This is really what I tend to do.

[bloodtide]

[QUOTE=SowZ;12928865]

Most People: The average level of most people is right around 10, or roughly 7-12. The simple farmer who is working in the field is a 5th level commoner/2nd level warrior. An innkeeper might be a 4th level bard/2nd level expert/3rd level cleric.
Long-Lived Races: The average is more around 15.
Most Military People: Same as others
Military of Long Lived Races: Same as others
Expert Criminals/Mercenaries/Assassins: Same as average.
Heroes: Will have few if ant NPC classes, but be the same as average
Villains: Will have few if ant NPC classes, but be the same as average
Monsters: Will cover the level spectrum, though typically there will be more powerful ones then not. The bugbear bandits will have a couple levels and not be just 'right out of the MM'.

Now some important things.
Abilities My game world has normal people, not super human ones. So a lot of people have Rath scores: 8, 14, 13, 13, 7, 6 or such. And everyone does not metagame ability scores, so a wizard might have a charisma of 16, but an intelligence of just 12.
Powers Most people pick useful spells, feats and such...they don't immediately take Improved Initiative and max out spot and listen and get ready to kill, loot and repeat like the average crazed gamer. A 10th level fighter might just have taken toughness a half dozen times, or weapon focus on a lot of weapons. And a 10th level wizard does not walk around with a Daisy-Chain-Nova Fireball spell ready to blow up the village, she only knows two 5th level spells: Sending and Wall of Stone.
Hit Points My world rolls for HPs with no 'fixes', so it's possible to be a 10th level character with 15 hit points.
Personalities Just as a person is 10th level, does not make them want to do things. They will still be scared of a dragon, or the darkness or such. And few people are combative and even fewer can handle it.
Foes Often to optimize, but not to the crazy player extent. A monster or NPC might just be good at one or two things.

[Varil]

I tend to treat level 1 as the 'just finished training' level. Most adolescents/young adults will be level 1, and just now really getting a feel for their chosen vocation. Typically the commoner class will be reserved for unskilled labor or "in training" characters.

Level 2 is the 'skilled' level. Most adults up to middle-aged are going to be level 2.

Level 3 is the point of mastery for most normal people. Old hands will be level 3, and typically in a position of command if appropriate for their career, whether it's giving advice to younger farmers or handing out orders in the military.

Level 4 is roughly the turning point between 'special' and 'normal'. Level 4 can still be a normal person, but they'll typically have either exceptional talent or special circumstances that lead to them being just a little better than their peers. A world-class scholar, or a soldier who was lucky and/or skilled enough to survive a war full of heavy battles, for instance.

Level 5-8 is the point where a person no longer merely impresses their peers, but clearly outshines them to a degree that may make them seem superhuman. In mundane society, these levels typically represent a once-in-a-lifetime sort of genius at their craft. Amongst adventurers, though, these levels are less amazing and more typical, with the weaker and less skilled generally being weeded out pretty quickly. In more powerful militaries, there may be a small group of 'elites' around this level.

Level 9-12 is less 'famed hero' and more 'impossible legend'. Those that reach this point will either be figures of great standing and fame(a general reknown for being undefeated, a wizard known for slaying a dragon single-handedly...that sort of stuff), and rumors and stories about the figure will generally be so outstanding that it becomes impossible to tell fact from fiction. In practical terms, this level is generally reserved for PCs and high-ranking enemies. In a large city, government, or organization, there may be one or two characters at or above this level.

Level 13+ is pretty much exclusively the realm of in-game legends, the PCs, and primary villains. Generally, NPCs with this sort of level will either be special, unique characters meant for protracted contact with the PCs, or have some sort of in-universe explanation for why they are so staggeringly powerful. Aside from "because you'd steamroll them otherwise", I mean.

[limejuicepowder]

[QUOTE=SowZ;12928865]
And everyone does not metagame ability scores, so a wizard might have a charisma of 16, but an intelligence of just 12.


I would say you are thinking about this backwards; a high intellect ALLOWS a person to study wizardry; they don't decide to become wizards while still in the womb, then send a text message to mom "hey, could you boost my int score? thx."

The idea of dumping some stats in favor of others is metagaming of course, but it's really only a function of everyone having the same number of stat points to play with. IRL, not everyone has their stat numbers add up to the same thing - but you could bet that the geniuses and savants of the world have their most relative stat maxed - perhaps at the expense of their other scores, perhaps not.

Also, the same principal as above still applies: PC's are (generally) supposed to be special, even among characters of their own class. Having an absurdly high score that happens to match exactly what that class benefits from is entirely reasonable; in-game, it's the reason that character became that class in the first place.

[crazyhedgewizrd]

I usually have most people about lvl 4-6, long lived races about the same as the short lived races since they take longer to do stuff. Heroes and Villians around lvl 4 - 11. Notable character about lvl 10 - 15 (at most 8 people in the whole world).

When the players reach lvl 9 they have to start doing risky things to gain exp

[Marlowe]

I must like high-level worlds then. The city the PCs are currently in has two major NPCs, both level 15, apparently jockeying for position and with a feud on. There is a more powerful (level 18) person in town, but her interests are more towards control from the shadows than seeking power openly.

None of these three have been met by the PCs (level 6) yet; but I've implied that if any of them want to meet the party then the PCs may find themselves with little say in the matter. There are a number of people in the 7-14 level range who are generally known and feared. Most grunt-level NPCs are around levels 1-3, with the rarer veterans being in the 4-6 range. In short the PCs powerful enough to deal with threats from mooks but acquiring the negative attention of one of the big players may prove too much for them. Helps keep them honest.

[SilverLeaf167]

In my campaigns, the typical minimum level for adult humanoids is 2. People over level 6 are more skilled and powerful than the typical person: a guard captain or the typical PC, for example. Level 12 characters are almost unique and very powerful (such as the high priest of major religion). Level 16 characters are typically great heroes, stuff of legends.

I think it's somewhat silly to assume most people are level 1: this is what creates consistency problems in settings, unless you really want a level 3 character to stand out. Raising the minimum level to 2 or 3 also removes the "Housecat vs. Commoner" problem, as well as the stuff about a 10 ft. fall possibly killing or knocking out commoners.

[hymer]

I always start out trying to make levels generally low. But then I start to look at what I need that NPC wizard to do, and it turns out he has to have (say) Limited Wish to do that, so he's likely level 13 or more if he does the trick regularly. And I already established that his original master is still alive, and more than thirty years his senior. Probably even higher level. And these guys aren't the top, so there must be some pretty mighty guys around...
So I tend to end up with the highest level characters being 17+. Royals are just so cool, so they need to be able to rival that, so there's a level 15 prince, I don't even know what levels the king or the crown prince are.
In my current cmapaign world, human commoners tend to fall in the 1-4 range; I've established pro veteran sergeant-type soldiers to be 5-6ish with at least some of those levels in PC classes. Elves and dwarves are inherently more powerful due to longer lives, and they're usually level 5 or above, tend to have PC classes, and elves are invariably gestalt with at least one magic-wielding class if they're not singleclass spell users.

[Kol Korran]

it very much depends on the campaign and setting. i usually played in Eberron where most people are at really low levels, about level 10 is really high ups, and above this are legendery characters.

but now i'm planning a pirate campaign in which there are mroe higher level folks, with level 10 being about the level of a powerful captain or the like, but there are people above that.

[peacenlove]

High level planar campaign with active warfare/spelljamming/invasion from extraplanar cultures (Think warhammer 40K marrying the great wheel with many MANY alternate material planes / planets etc.). Also using Dicefreaks take on Epic Levels and the city of Sigil as Neutral grounds. (the city of union is a faction on its own.)

Most People: 1st to 5th level. Expanded skill points, freebie feats to function better in their specialization.
Long-Lived Races: 1st to 5th level + 1 level per 50 years of life
Most Military People: 6th to 15th level for high ranking commanders
Military of Long Lived Races: +1 level per 20 years
Expert Criminals/Mercenaries/Assassins: Unique, whatever level enables them to bypass effortlessly most spell protections / infiltrate easily planar sanctuaries unnoticed.
Heroes: Unique, Epic level with vast armies of followers/magic and technology to match. Starting small however is my main goal.
Villains: Since it is a faction vs faction world, independent villains are much tougher than heroes. Otherwise see heroes.
Monsters: Centuries of interbreeding for military purposes and/or adaptation to hostile environments have resulted in a wide variety of templates/HD advanced/specialized creatures. Conversely, paradise worlds and the elimination of predators has resulted on weaker creatures to thrive. Anything is possible.

[Red_Dog]

Fairly highpowered campaign with overhauled XP system

Basically basing on idea that XP is gained by=>
>Long life of training
>Discovering Insight in objects that are "special" and than making a leaping break thru in your training [basically certain items store XP]

So with this in mind,

Average middle aged person[including all the long living onces to account for thier slower rate of learning, not that thier dumb, just different world preception] that is semi-focused on his/her studies=> ECL6-8

Highly skilled individual at his prime who dedicated his life to study [a wizard that went thru 20 some years of schooling]=>ECL10-12

Highly skilled leader and/or commander of people who may have encountered an XP item=>ECL14-15

A living legend and a (co)commander of a nation that lived long and perhaps past his/her due date via some means (deals with outsiders, items, etc.)=>ECL18-20

Some creatures do not obey this progressions such as Dragons but in turn[usually] do not have any class levels. Even they however are not taking epic feats or have access to epic magic, as I deemed it to be waaaay to hard to balance in this world that has been a GIANT pain in ze arse as it is.

^^

[Coidzor]

I haven't gotten to run anyone in it yet, but I had a world that was semi inspired by Birthright where the strength of one's bloodline determined the level cap for someone, regardless of their PC or NPC status. Naturally this meant that in games which weren't going to run like E6, characters of "low bloodline" would have a priority of fulfilling the task of increasing their bloodline. Since this would usually take a quest it would be quite easy to throw in as a sort of "season finale" to a campaign.

The level caps are, roughly, as follows, though I haven't settled on the names or if I'll include the 4th level cap:

Aberrant/Flawed/Sick - 4
Least - 6
Lesser - 8
Moderate - 10
Greater - 12
Full - 20
Ascendant - Epic

Most people would fall under the Least level cap and would effectively be E6 characters in a world which has high level characters. Roughly 70-80% is what I figure right now. The majority, but not so common that a town wouldn't have a few people of greater bloodline.

Most start off as first level NPCs and gain experience slowly over time so that most of the shorter lived races have typical NPCs reach about 4th level by the time their offspring would be ready to take over from them and if they're good at what they do for typical people or apply themselves or just keep at it longer and are longer lived, they'd be able to hit their cap in their old age.

Longer lived races, such as elves, would more routinely hit level 4 before they're middle aged and would hit level 6 about halfway through it, and, given that usually longer lived races have at least a slightly stronger bloodline than shorter lived races, they would be reaching 8th level for the next step up's level cap either as they hit or during their time as old people.

Otherwise normal individuals who receive rigorous or regular training, such as the military, routinely hit 4th during their prime before they hit middle age, with most middle aged veterans being 5th-6th level. Similarly, most lesser mages, shaman, hedge wizards, adepts, and the like, would hit their level cap of 6th as they reach middle age and they might just be able to reach the next bloodline level.

Military of longer lived races would be bumped up a level on all counts, and a fair number of veterans would have had the potential to increase their bloodline, whether they actually could or did would vary though. Mages and their ilk of longer lived races would almost certainly have managed to increase their bloodline and hit 8th level before they're old. Especially long-lived and canny ones can do it again, or already had a better bloodline and increased it just the once, and make it to 9th-10th level when very old.

Exceptional individuals are those who have a bloodline level one above the majority of the population, those are the ones who are E8 naturally, they tend to level up more quickly and be more ambitious and prone to conflicts of various sorts and have an easier time finding ways to increase their bloodline. Career officers and minor nobility tend to be of this bloodline more than the greater population. Bloodline is partially hereditary and the bloodlines of the parents will effect the likelihood of strong bloodline in their offspring. Generally Lesser bloodline parents won't have Least bloodline children, unless one of the parents was Least and the other Lesser. So that's actually one of the ways into the nobility, to distinguish one's self in one's field and have a higher bloodline than normal, and one can get adopted and married into a noble house.

Heroic Figures tend to be around 10th-12th level, though only a few were naturally born with bloodlines of that station, as those born with high bloodlines almost inevitably get drawn on to greater and greater things. Adventurers, especially NPC adventurers, run the gamut of levels, though most established professionals fall into the 6-9 range.

Rulers and scions of Great Houses that get properly groomed and are legitimate heirs without anything untoward happening are generally E8 or E10, and are around 6th level after they would be considered properly raised and adult princelings. By the time they would legitimately inherit they're 8th level, 10th if they're the kind that legitimately inherits by political or violent means, and they frequently manage to increase their bloodline to a certain extent after they've past the age where most sire heirs. It's very curious actually how it's very rare for a King to increase his bloodline without first having reproduced and it's similarly rare for a ruler to have children after increasing their bloodline.

In fact, one of the reasons for that is that being of too great of a bloodline relative to one's mate decreases the chance of reproducing, so not only are a king's illegitimate children notable for their potential, they're also rare enough that each could be counted, whereas a minor noble could have fathered children across the continent, some with his potential and others taking after their mothers. As a result, it's not unheard of for certain rulers to make compacts with a dragon or even an outsider so that a back-up heir is produced.

Villains will typically scale to whatever is appropriate to the scale they're working at, really, defaulting to whatever level of society would have produced them. The illegitimate son of a king and a powerful monster or member of a long-lived race would be the most likely source of both NPC adventurers and BBEGs.

As for Monsters... I haven't thought about their scaling fully, having mostly left them up to whatever seemed appropriate to the adventure. Most really heavy hitters do not dwell on the plane 24/7 every day of the year, much like high level wizards, visiting other planes is second nature to older dragons when they're not hibernating or masquerading as other creatures.

[Marlowe]

I think the most important thing is to make sure that the NPCs are an appropriate level relative to the PCs and to what the PCs are supposed to be accomplishing.

It doesn't make sense to have a bunch of level 7s on a quest to stop multiplanar apocalyptic disaster when there are dozens for NPCs around stronger than they are, yet apparently doing nothing.

It equally doesn't make sense that those same level 7s should be tasked with defending a small town against Goblin raids if supposedly they're the most powerful people for a thousand miles. Unless it's a VERY peaceful setting.

One thing I'm guilty of not considering enough (very new to Dming) is that NPCs do not need to be high level in order to be powerful. At least not if they have money and influence within the setting.

At some point I'm going to have a BBEG who is a few levels of Expert, a pimped UMD skill, a whole stack of items and wands and a massive amount of connections gained through money, blackmail, diplomacy, stock manipulation and being polite to rich old ladies.

.

[Jon_Dahl]

With 3.5, I tend to go with DMG. At least 91% are 1st-level commoners. However in extreme circumstances this doesn't apply. If the conditions are hard, I might skip commoner class altogether or they simply represent "dependents". I try to find some logic on how the NPCs survice. If a commoner can do it, then commoners we will have. If not, they become extinct.

In extremely harsh environments where enemies are numerous and the food/water are scarce, I would put 1st-level expert/1st-level warrior as the minimum for every able man and fighting woman. I've found such combination quite potent and it doesn't step on PC classes toes.

[Averis Vol]

I tend to treat level 1 as the 'just finished training' level. Most adolescents/young adults will be level 1, and just now really getting a feel for their chosen vocation. Typically the commoner class will be reserved for unskilled labor or "in training" characters.

Level 2 is the 'skilled' level. Most adults up to middle-aged are going to be level 2.

Level 3 is the point of mastery for most normal people. Old hands will be level 3, and typically in a position of command if appropriate for their career, whether it's giving advice to younger farmers or handing out orders in the military.

Level 4 is roughly the turning point between 'special' and 'normal'. Level 4 can still be a normal person, but they'll typically have either exceptional talent or special circumstances that lead to them being just a little better than their peers. A world-class scholar, or a soldier who was lucky and/or skilled enough to survive a war full of heavy battles, for instance.

Level 5-8 is the point where a person no longer merely impresses their peers, but clearly outshines them to a degree that may make them seem superhuman. In mundane society, these levels typically represent a once-in-a-lifetime sort of genius at their craft. Amongst adventurers, though, these levels are less amazing and more typical, with the weaker and less skilled generally being weeded out pretty quickly. In more powerful militaries, there may be a small group of 'elites' around this level.

Level 9-12 is less 'famed hero' and more 'impossible legend'. Those that reach this point will either be figures of great standing and fame(a general reknown for being undefeated, a wizard known for slaying a dragon single-handedly...that sort of stuff), and rumors and stories about the figure will generally be so outstanding that it becomes impossible to tell fact from fiction. In practical terms, this level is generally reserved for PCs and high-ranking enemies. In a large city, government, or organization, there may be one or two characters at or above this level.

Level 13+ is pretty much exclusively the realm of in-game legends, the PCs, and primary villains. Generally, NPCs with this sort of level will either be special, unique characters meant for protracted contact with the PCs, or have some sort of in-universe explanation for why they are so staggeringly powerful. Aside from "because you'd steamroll them otherwise", I mean.

this is a second for me. except for a few close to the party NPC's who they would get nowhere without (but they barely make themselves known)

[Myth]

In my homebrew setting:

Level 1 NPCs or unstatted - commoners/regular merchants/craftsmen etc.
Level 2-4 - NPCs that live like "commoners" but are not the commoner class. They have class levels and may have stats that are above the elite array. They could become adventurers if they were to be put into such situation.
Level 5-12: NPCs with some authority. These always have the same PB as the PCs and have class levels, items, goals, plans etc. They are usually in a position of power, but not at the top of the hierarchy.
Level 13-18:NPCs of note, either lone wolf types with a lot of experience, heads of local cults, temples, leaders of armies, lords, ex-adventurers, shopkeepers that sell magical loot and most NPC enemies. These always have the same PB as the PCs and comparable WBL.
Level 18+ > Epic: Most exclusively BBEGS or other NPCs who are not the PC's personal BFFS and as such won't go to help them like good Deus Ex Machinae are supposed to. If the PCs interact with these, it's because of something grander than them being PCs and the NPCs being simply high level.

As you can see I don't like the "everyone has at most elite array and NPC wbl is significantly lower" part of the DMG. The NPCs can be heroes just as well. Our PCs will get things that set them apart but those are unique rewards and ways they develop as characters. Anyone can get levels and anyone can break WBL (especially casters). If a level 15 PC can have so much gold from goblin slaying (or, rather, has gotten to lvl 15 for killing an X number of goblins) then the same rules apply to NPCs. At least those who have the potential to get there.

[bloodtide]

I would say you are thinking about this backwards; a high intellect ALLOWS a person to study wizardry; they don't decide to become wizards while still in the womb, then send a text message to mom "hey, could you boost my int score? thx."

The idea of dumping some stats in favor of others is metagaming of course, but it's really only a function of everyone having the same number of stat points to play with.

My idea is that simply the whole world is not min/maxed that way most players insist on to have fun. (It's no fun for me as a player unless my character is awesome).

My world also has the 'drama' type stuff: Dad was a wizard, so son must be a wizard, even though he only has a 12 for intelligence.

[Bovine Colonel]

I would say you are thinking about this backwards; a high intellect ALLOWS a person to study wizardry; they don't decide to become wizards while still in the womb, then send a text message to mom "hey, could you boost my int score? thx."

The idea of dumping some stats in favor of others is metagaming of course, but it's really only a function of everyone having the same number of stat points to play with. IRL, not everyone has their stat numbers add up to the same thing - but you could bet that the geniuses and savants of the world have their most relative stat maxed - perhaps at the expense of their other scores, perhaps not.

Also, the same principal as above still applies: PC's are (generally) supposed to be special, even among characters of their own class. Having an absurdly high score that happens to match exactly what that class benefits from is entirely reasonable; in-game, it's the reason that character became that class in the first place.

Point of order: the quote was Bloodtide's, not SowZ's. Bloodtide included the first half of a quote tag in his post.

[unundindur]

I play with the E6 system, so in my world classes as capped at level 6 and only progress via feats from there.

In that context I think I would say the spread is like this:

40% Lv 1
20% Lv 2
15% Lv 3
10% Lv 4
5% Lv 5
10% Lv 6

The reason lv 6 peaks is because that takes into account everyone who have reached the cap and progress further via feats (basically lv 6-20 in normal games).

I also play with expert/commoner/aristocrat classes, and there are a lot of expert 3-4 around the world :)

[FearlessGnome]

I generally feel that older people should get a few extra levels, since they've had more time to do stuff.
So:
Commoners: Young: 1-2, middle aged: 3-4, old: 5-6, venerable: Don't be silly, commoners are dead by now :p
Common Soldiers: Recruits: 1-2, soldiers/guards 3-4, veterans/officers: 5-6, higher officers/special units: 7-10.
Priests/craftspeople I figure are all over the place, but most physically frail enough that a level 4-5 expert would hesitate to take on commoners without magic items.
I also put in more 'special' people than I think most people do. Why shouldn't the innkeeper be a retired adventurer? How about a priest who's spent enough time just studying/praying that he's strong enough to actually be able to occasionally help the party beyond free Cure spells?
Heroes/Villains: Obviously, the level 20 people will be limited to a few per plane, but with most of the NPCs being retired/having settled down, I don't think a few thousand level 10-15 casters spread out over a world is excessive.

[JadePhoenix]

With 3.5, I tend to go with DMG.
I do that as well. I think it's easier and less complicated then coming up with something completely different for whatever reason.

[Wyntonian]

My games are usually level 1 to 10 with a very few unique legendary NPCs of level 11 to 13.
Level 1 to 5 are the common people and starting at 6th, you start to really stand out from the crowd and enter the league of the big players.

Pretty much this.

[Jeraa]

I base NPC levels on age. After reaching their base age (15 for a human), the average person earns 1 xp/day. (Note, I use Pathfinders XP charts, specifically the slow advancement numbers, which means way more XP to level up is required.)

So if your typical human commoner is say, 30 years old, he has earned (30-15=15 years at 1xp/day) 5,475xp, so is about halfway to 3rd level. You longest-lived venerable elf (750 years) has managed to earn 233,600xp, putting him at just under 12th level.

Thats only for your average person, though. Special people have whatever level I want them to have. Tying XP to age also means that the longer lived races (like dwarves and elves) also tend to have higher level people running around, something which makes sense to me. More time = more XP.

Typical Human Commoner
level 1 - 0xp - 15 years old
level 2 - 3,000xp - 23.2 years old
level 3 - 7,500xp - 35.5 years old
level 4 - 14,000xp - 53.3 years old
level 5 - 23,000xp - 78 years old