Tier One Cleric

[Dancingdeath]

Best way to optimize a cleric as a battle cleric? Discuss please. :smile:

[INoKnowNames]

I'm pretty sure you do it by preparing Buffs using Divine Metamagic and Extend/Persist Spells. Even a Cloistered Cleric can be made as physically powerful as a fighter if they have buffs on 24-7.

Liberal use of a very good (and very extensive) spell list helps, too. Summoning things so that they can destroy what you would struggle with naturally seems like it works rather well as a strategy.

But I've never actually played a Cleric, so I wouldn't know.

[Gavinfoxx]

Do what this says:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0

[Andvare]

Even Cloistered Cleric?

A Cloistered Cleric is a better damage dealer than a regular cleric because of that free knowledge domain, which you can turn into extra damage.
IMHO, the Cloistered ACF is a no-brainer, except if you, for some reason, wants to be the party tank.

[watchwood]

I'm playing a level 9 Battle Cleric currently - it's all about the all day buffs, with extend/persist spell and DMM abuse where necessary. Here's my current list of spells that I cast every morning:

Extended Spikes
Extended Mage Armour
Persistent Divine Power (DMM)
Endure Elements
Extended Delay Poison
Eagles Splendor
Persistent Mass Lesser Vigour (DMM)

It's a pretty solid package. In a couple of levels I'll be adding a pair of Extended Magic Vestments my my armour and shield, and just selling off the current set of +2 plate/shield that I'm currently using.

[Andion Isurand]

Here's a possible portion of a build I suggested not to long ago in another thread

Cloistered Cleric as your base

Extend Spell feat from Planning Domain
Persistent Spell feat
DMM Persist feat
--------------------------------------
3 levels of Prestige Paladin (possibly of Freedom, Tryanny or Destruction)
Mounted Combat feat prerequisite (might ask to change feat if you use charging smite ACF)

Battle Blessing feat (Complete Champion)
Holy Warrior feat (Complete Champion) taken with War Domain
Serenity feat (Dragon Compendium) = Cha-based paladin powers become Wis-based
--------------------------------------
2 levels of Swordsage = Wis to AC while in light armor

Practiced Spellcaster feat

[watchwood]

You're losing what, 3 levels of spell progression with that build? Practised spellcaster only makes for for the caster level, so that's still not a minor loss.

[dextercorvia]

You're losing what, 3 levels of spell progression with that build? Practised spellcaster only makes for for the caster level, so that's still not a minor loss.

Only one. Prestige Paladin advances casting at 1st and 3rd levels.

@OP Focusing on melee actually robs you a bit of your T1 goodness.

@Watchwood, Replace Mage Armor with Greater Luminous Armor. And neither stacks with your +2 plate armor.

[watchwood]

What book is the luminous armour from?

Also, I keep the mage armour around for stuff that bypasses regular AC. Ethereal creatures, etc.

[tyckspoon]

What book is the luminous armour from?

Also, I keep the mage armour around for stuff that bypasses regular AC. Ethereal creatures, etc.

Most of them bypass Mage Armor as well. It's basically only incorporeal creatures that are affected by Mage Armor but not standard armor; every other means of Touch Attack I can think of doesn't care. Might still be worth it to you depending on how paranoid you are about shadows/allips/ghosts.


3 levels of Prestige Paladin (possibly of Freedom, Tryanny or Destruction)
Battle Blessing feat (Complete Champion)

Standard public service announcement: This doesn't work. At least, not the way people want it to. Battle Blessing specifies Paladin spells. A Cleric going into Prestige Paladin doesn't *have* Paladin spells- he still casts as a Cleric. The most generous interpretation that works is that you can apply Battle Blessing to those spells that are unique to the Paladin list, because those are the spells you have only because you are a Paladin and might be able to argue are therefor 'Paladin spells'.. which, in Core, is Heal Mount and Holy Sword. The strictest interpretation is that Battle Blessing does *nothing* for you and you in fact do not qualify, as you have Cleric spells with an extended list, not Paladin spells.

[Tokuhara]

All of the above with one small add-on: Dynamic Priest.

This feat from one of the Dragonlance campaign books (don't give me dirty looks... You use un-errata'd White Dragonspawn.) lets Cleric dump wisdom and use Charisma to power his spellcasting. This let's you drop the craptastic spending of valuable ability score points in Wisdom and instead leads you down the slippery slope to Diplomancer.

I personally adore a:

Magic-Touched Lesser Aasimar Cloistered Cleric/Radiant Servant of Re (Glory AND Sun)/Contemplative (War) as my Cleric-zilla of choice. If the game is Undead Heavy, I grab the Destroy Undead ACF (flat damage instead of Turn). Heaps o' fun

[Andion Isurand]

The Dynamic Priest feat is from Legends of the Twins, however... it doesn't affect the save DCs of your spells. So in the end, you may still want Wisdom.

[Rejusu]

If you're going to be evil then I came up with a fun build a while ago that while it's not a cleric has cleric spellcasting and abilities. It requires that you be human though and have a minimum int of 12, as well as being evil.

Human Paragon 1 (to get the skills and good will save you'll need) with Able Learner, Paladin of Tyranny 4 (to get rebuke undead, take the ACF that gives you a bonus feat instead of spellcasting since you lose it when going into Ur-priest anyway), Ur-priest 1, then Bone Knight all the way. This gets you a character immune to nearly everything, damage reduction, and 9th level divine spellcasting... at level 16. Only issue is you have to be lawful evil, or chaotic evil if you go for the slaughter paladin but that's worse than the tyranny one in my opinion. A -2 saving throw aura is better than a -1 AC aura.

Bone Knight is still a good option even if you're good/neutral though as it isn't alignment restricted, though you may get some funny looks by good characters if you go around raising the dead. You'll need a way to get ride as a class skill if you want to go into BK from Cleric though.

[Myth]

Do what this says:

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=420.0

Energy Drain as a recommended 9th level spell? Initiate of Mystra not listed as a good feat? Yeah, I doubt the mastery of the guides' author.

[Tokuhara]

The Dynamic Priest feat is from Legends of the Twins, however... it doesn't affect the save DCs of your spells. So in the end, you may still want Wisdom.

Not saying total dump Wisdom, but not as necessary as it was before.

[Rejusu]

Not saying total dump Wisdom, but not as necessary as it was before.

Problem is unless you know a way to add charisma on to your save DC's you've still got a need for a high Wis. Kind of makes the usefulness of Dynamic priest questionable.

[Squidfist]

Battle cleric like hit stuff, or battle cleric like be useful in combat?

If you want to play the combat healer, PHB2 has a 3 feat chain that lets you expend daily uses of TU to do a 60 ft burst of positive energy, healing any living creature for 1d8 + Cha mod. As a first level human cleric with a flaw (and moderate charisma), you can have 9 uses of this ability. Retarded.

If you want to smash things, check out Law Devotion / Chaos devotion.

If you're higher level, check out Holy Warrior. Pretty much adds damage to every attack, as long as you have a high level divine spell reserved.

One of my favorites is Divine Vigor, a feat that lets you use 1 TU attempt to get 10 foot movement, and temp hit points for a min per level as a swift action. Not amazingly powerful, just nifty.

[Tokuhara]

Meh. I don't play cleric anyways. I prefer Serene Paladin personally (Serenity makes all of Paladin's special abilities run off of Wisdom), so Cleric isn't my personal style...

[DoctorGlock]

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/sacred exorcist 4/Prestige Paladin 1

BAB17
CL 17
IL 15
2 turning pools (dmm and travel devotion, though you will probably be shadow blinking)

Domains: Spell, Planning (lets you persist anyspell>wraithstrike, initiate of mystra negates need for it, go travel instead for the teleports)

gains paladin list (see above arguments on battle blessing)

[danzibr]

If you're going to be evil then I came up with a fun build a while ago that while it's not a cleric has cleric spellcasting and abilities. It requires that you be human though and have a minimum int of 12, as well as being evil.

Human Paragon 1 (to get the skills and good will save you'll need) with Able Learner, Paladin of Tyranny 4 (to get rebuke undead, take the ACF that gives you a bonus feat instead of spellcasting since you lose it when going into Ur-priest anyway), Ur-priest 1, then Bone Knight all the way. This gets you a character immune to nearly everything, damage reduction, and 9th level divine spellcasting... at level 16. Only issue is you have to be lawful evil, or chaotic evil if you go for the slaughter paladin but that's worse than the tyranny one in my opinion. A -2 saving throw aura is better than a -1 AC aura.

Bone Knight is still a good option even if you're good/neutral though as it isn't alignment restricted, though you may get some funny looks by good characters if you go around raising the dead. You'll need a way to get ride as a class skill if you want to go into BK from Cleric though.
This is awesome. I'm so using this build at some point.

[Rejusu]

This is awesome. I'm so using this build at some point.

Feel free to, I'd love to play it but I devised it after I'd already rolled my character for my current game. Plus the alignment restrictions on Ur-priest mean it's only suitable for an evil campaign.

Full list of immunities at character level 16 are:
extra damage from criticals and sneak attacks, stunning attacks, non-lethal damage, disease, fear, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, death effects, fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage to your physical ability scores, ability drain, energy drain, and death from massive damage.

And it has most of them by character level 14, 16 just gives it 100% sneak attack/crit immunity rather than 50%

It's kind of MAD though, the Ur-priest is a wisdom based caster, the BK abilities are based on Cha (but really the immunities and 9/10 casting are why you're taking it), you'll want str if you're going to fight, you always need con, and you require a minimum of 12 int for the skill points required.

Skill requirements are pretty much the main reason why it's human with Able Learner, and human paragon. Worth noting that a level of Bard will fulfil the same purpose (as it has the right skills and a good will save) but it has a lower hit die. Problem is that Ur-priest requires 32 skill points to fill the prereqs and Bone Knight needs 10. Add in the fact that a good few of the UP requirements aren't class skills for the Paladin means you're locked into going Able Learner.

If you do play it let me know how it goes. I didn't finish fleshing the build out because I knew I wasn't going to play it for a while. I was thinking about throwing undead leadership in there though.

[Myth]

A goody-two shoes cleric build:

Cloistered Cleric of [sun deity] > Radiant Servant of [sun deity]
Knowledge Devotion
Divine Metamagic
Persist Spell

Wis>Con>Str=Cha

A good race would be Lesser Aasimar. Make undead melt. Make everyne dead just by persisting Righteous Might etc. Or by casting your great spells. Get a Belt of Battle, prayer beads, a LOT of holy symbols. A lot. Seriously. Tattoo one or two on your person, get one on your belt buckle, on your armour, on your underpants even. Trust me.

Or go

Cloistered Cleric of Mystra > Dweomerkeeper (using the pure clery entry trick with some feats). Get Initiate of Mystra. Cast Su Miracles and Gates and laugh. This may or may not get you smitten by a DMG to the face.

[Suddo]

Energy Drain as a recommended 9th level spell? Initiate of Mystra not listed as a good feat? Yeah, I doubt the mastery of the guides' author.

Its a standard guide. Its been around a while. It doesn't have all the frills.

But back to the topic. A note BAB doesn't matter at all. Divine Power will quickly build you back up where you need to be. Also try and get Lesser Assimar as your race.

[Eldariel]

Cloistered Cleric of Mystra > Dweomerkeeper (using the pure clery entry trick with some feats). Get Initiate of Mystra. Cast Su Miracles and Gates and laugh. This may or may not get you smitten by a DMG to the face.

It's just Magical Training-feat from MoF (IIRC; might be PGtF, RoF or FRC too). That said, the request was for a tier 1 Cleric; IoM Dweomerkeeper would probably be stronger than that.

[Andvare]

This is awesome. I'm so using this build at some point.

Get regeneration in there somehow.
Say, the troll blooded feat (a dragon magazine regional feat, it requires toughness IIRC, so take two flaws to get it with no change in level progession, no sane DM would allow it though).
Damage converted to non-lethal damage = win for a Bone Knight.

I accidentally did this with a Bone Knight I played, had to be put in a retirement home, because the encounters we had to get, to challenge my character, were really out of proportion with the rest of the group.

[FearlessGnome]

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/sacred exorcist 4/Prestige Paladin 1

BAB17
CL 17
IL 15
2 turning pools (dmm and travel devotion, though you will probably be shadow blinking)

Domains: Spell, Planning (lets you persist anyspell>wraithstrike, initiate of mystra negates need for it, go travel instead for the teleports)

gains paladin list (see above arguments on battle blessing)

Anyspell lets you prepare an arcane spell. It lets you do things like qualify for Dweomerkeeper, but, being Arcane, the spell does not qualify for DMM: Persist.

[DoctorGlock]

Anyspell lets you prepare an arcane spell. It lets you do things like qualify for Dweomerkeeper, but, being Arcane, the spell does not qualify for DMM: Persist.

IIRC, there is a line of text saying the spell is still divine in nature, so this is legal, as well as not qualifying for dweomerkeeper (and thus needing southern magician or magical training)

[dextercorvia]

IIRC, there is a line of text saying the spell is still divine in nature, so this is legal, as well as not qualifying for dweomerkeeper (and thus needing southern magician or magical training)

There is no such line.

[Rejusu]

Get regeneration in there somehow.
Say, the troll blooded feat (a dragon magazine regional feat, it requires toughness IIRC, so take two flaws to get it with no change in level progession, no sane DM would allow it though).
Damage converted to non-lethal damage = win for a Bone Knight.

I accidentally did this with a Bone Knight I played, had to be put in a retirement home, because the encounters we had to get, to challenge my character, were really out of proportion with the rest of the group.

Wow that's kind of ridiculous. Especially since it's one downside (fatigued in sunlight) becomes moot when you get to Bone Knight 8 and get Exo-skeleton of Undeath. Most DM's ban Dragon content though (for good reason) so it's hard to slip stuff like that in. And yeah should be manageable within that build with only a single flaw. It's actually not very feat intensive, aside from the two you need to enter Ur-priest it doesn't really have any feat requirements. Plus if you can mange it you can get Iron Will from an Otyguth hole.

[Snowbluff]

Energy Drain as a recommended 9th level spell? Initiate of Mystra not listed as a good feat? Yeah, I doubt the mastery of the guides' author.

:smallsigh: Inorite? Don't you hate it when people give sources that have things that are terribly wrong. Still, its better than nothing.

[Andvare]

Wow that's kind of ridiculous. Especially since it's one downside (fatigued in sunlight) becomes moot when you get to Bone Knight 8 and get Exo-skeleton of Undeath. Most DM's ban Dragon content though (for good reason) so it's hard to slip stuff like that in. And yeah should be manageable within that build with only a single flaw. It's actually not very feat intensive, aside from the two you need to enter Ur-priest it doesn't really have any feat requirements. Plus if you can mange it you can get Iron Will from an Otyguth hole.

Yes, it's all kinds of broken.
If you can get some untyped regeneration, you are immune to damage...
You can still be killed, but the ways of killing you drops dramatically.
And even with a typed regeneration, you, as a caster, can easily get some resistance/immunity to whatever energy it is.

An Otyguth hole, that sounds like a nasty insult.

[Rejusu]

Yes, it's all kinds of broken.
If you can get some untyped regeneration, you are immune to damage...
You can still be killed, but the ways of killing you drops dramatically.
And even with a typed regeneration, you, as a caster, can easily get some resistance/immunity to whatever energy it is.

An Otyguth hole, that sounds like a nasty insult.

Bone Knights are immune to death effects too though so that's even less ways you can be killed. Still all their immunities are tied to their armour and removing that kills them. Might have to find a way to stop that happening as it's kind of a glaring weakness. Chances of getting that feat past a DM are slim though.

Otyguth hole (possibly spelt wrong) is an extraordinary location from Complete Scoundrel that gives you a free feat from a short list. Iron Will tends to be the best thing you can get from there. The location has a "value" of about 3000GP, so you can work a free feat into your build if you just deduct that much from your WBL (you don't actually "pay" for it, the value is just a guide to tell the DM how much less treasure you get).

[FearlessGnome]

Troll blooded is horribly broken, but the majority of DMs who ban Dragon Mag is not that overwhelming. There are plenty of nice things in there, like Serenity for the MAD Paladin. Things just need to be approved on an individual basis...

[Battleship789]

Cleric 4/Crusader 1/RKV 10/sacred exorcist 4/Prestige Paladin 1

BAB17
CL 17
IL 15
2 turning pools (dmm and travel devotion, though you will probably be shadow blinking)

Domains: Spell, Planning (lets you persist anyspell>wraithstrike, initiate of mystra negates need for it, go travel instead for the teleports)

gains paladin list (see above arguments on battle blessing)

Eh, you'd be better off slipping in a level of Contemplative (Extra Domain!) and 2 levels of Divine Oracle (Heavy Armor evasion! and a meh domain) instead of going 4 levels of Sacred Exorcist, as you are only picking up SE for the second turning pool; the other abilities are rather lackluster. Throw in Church Inquistor at levels 3 and 4 and swipe the Inquisition domain for Knowledge Devotion.

(Cloistered) Cleric 2/Church Inquisitor 2/Crusader 1/RKV 7/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 1/Divine Oracle 2/Prestige Paladin 1/RKV +3

The SE, Contemplative and Divine Oracle (and possibly the earlier RKV) levels can be switched around as you want, though having the last three levels be RKV is very nice for maneuvers. Going straight to RKV 7 is just to get Divine Impetus as fast as possible, though not necessary.

Snag Skill Focus [Knowledge (Religion)] through the Frog God's Fane (sp?) in Complete Scoundrel to get the requirements for Divine Oracle, or just take it normally if you have the feats.

5 (6 with Cloistered Cleric) domains: 3 of any choice, Inquisition (Swipe for Knowledge Devotion feat) and Oracle (Knowledge with CC)

CL 17
IL 15 (Taking the levels of RKV as above nets you one 7th and one 8th level maneuver.)
BAB 20 (Who isn't persisting Divine Power? 15 otherwise)
2 Turning pools

Also, with Prestige Paladin, you can just Persist Find the Gap, which is basically a weaker version of Wraithstike (only first attack each round), but still pretty powerful.