Tall people who don't play basketball (OoC)

[CowMasterTrojan]

The following thread is addressed at the following players, if you are not one of them please do not continue:

Chained birds
Hazzardevil
Debbie D
MikelaC1
Duke of URL
The unknown
Stanleyindraven
Jojolagger
Drako Beoluve

The issue:

While I do like Eric's attitude as a DM, he has somewhat sabotaged the game with these guests. With that in mind, please don't mention this thread to him or his guests at the moment.

I'm not sure how many of you know about these threads, so I will link them below. They are the threads that belong to our "guests".

The recruiting thread
(http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235596)
The OoC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235736)

The IC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235735)

In the recruitment thread he gives out all of our threads, so our "guests", get to see everything we do. Our builds, our thoughts and sneaky actions, and our actual actions.

Everyone of our guests is a caster of some kind, most with 9th level spells and/or epic abilities. With our high LA, we are outclassed because we're all fighter types (except jojo), can't out maneuver them because they can see what they are doing, and it quickly appears that they are going for a TPK.


Retreat does not mean defeat, and Hallok knows this better than most.
Chanting an incantation in a deep voice, the drow moves his hands in a circular cycle, and slowly, a rift opens in the air before him. From it climbs a monster fearsome beyond words- twenty feet tall, with too many heads and arms to count. Truly, this must be the most fearsome beast imaginable.

The drow points toward the behemoth, and cries more words of power. The beast is enveloped in green light, before fading from view.

Casting Gate to summon a Hectatonchaeres (or however it's spelled). Due to my CL of 26, and my five levels is Cosmic Descryer, I am capable of controlling it, as the maximum HD for a single controlled creature from my spell totals at 60, and the monster only has 52.

Hallok orders the creature to destroy the giants and the kobold, and then casts Greater Teleport to teleport the abomination to them, using his Mastery of Shaping ability to exclude himself from the effect. He also casts Ventriloquism to project his voice over the area. I expect you won't find this quite so easily defeatable.

Hallok then casts Plane Shift, teleporting himself and his cohort to the Negative Energy Plane. His cohort casts Death Ward on herself, but Hallok is immune to the effects of the plane due to the ability granted by his Cosmic Descryer levels (his other plane of choice was the positive energy plane).

Once there, Hallok begins casting his epic spell, Grim Assembly, while his cohort readies a Mass Death Ward spell, to be cast the moment the Rakshasa arrive.


Incase you don't know what the heck a Hecatoncheires (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Hecatoncheires)is, I googled it.
CR 57

To be fair, Eric did say this at the start of the recruitment thread:


Please try to be reasonable... they're going fairly low optimization, so if you could as well that would be appreciated.


but the issue is that Eric is basically treating them as a Anti-party party, and then giving them minor DM authority. When they do something that breaks the rules, or gets out of line (the whole situation with the drow for example),
he doesn't really step in at all. There is virtually no moderation.

Yeah... no, that would've been a fair bit of work... and I'm lazy.


What I want from you

Sadly I had a lot of high hopes for this game. Even when we were fighting the lycanthrope creatures that we way overpowered, it was still fun. But having 4 min-evil DM's has really soured my taste of the scenario.

So I really only see two options that I can see work if we want this game to continue.

1) We need to address the issue to the DM, as one. If only one player says something, it is likely to get ignored.

2) If we really have all lost faith in the game, I have thought about it hard and would be willing to take over as DM to keep this campaign going. But there is no way I could handle a party the size it is currently, so some people would have to be dropped. (Characters would likely be picked based on low optimization, alignment, and usefulness to the group. In that order of influence.) There would be some rebuilding of characters for everyone, but I would try to keep everything that is allowed still allowed for the most part- To the best of my knowledge.

And of course the worst option is options 3
3) We make it a point that the game is nothing but shenanigans and all quit.

So now that I have gotten this off my chest, please give me some feedback. Maybe you all disagree with me. Maybe I've hit home, I don't know. Right now I just feel very frustrated.

[jojolagger]

I strongly support keeping our assailants in check.

Option 4: Use the Aries combat system, second last resort of Vitis, which would allow me to kill the big scary summon in a single turn. and likely kill me once the spells wear off.
Option 5: Resurrect the volcano. :smallwink:
Also, the Aries system will run automatically if Vitis dies. So hope they see him as a target.
Option 5 is incredibly unfair, and wins in an instant. Which makes me hesitant to use it.

EDIT: Just read up on Gate. Anyone want to Scry and die on the Mage with our big friend he just called in? Because I can't think of a more karmic fate.

[CowMasterTrojan]

I got the teleport and the death, but i don't have the greater scrying. Plus I doubt he would fail the will save anyway.

Frankly based on our encounters, I don't think they are going to allow themselves to be killed. Just like with the drow, taking 3 turns in one round and getting away with it. If you want to continue this exercise, we need some better mediation.

It occurs to me jojo, what class are you anyway?

[jojolagger]

I got the teleport and the death, but i don't have the greater scrying. Plus I doubt he would fail the will save anyway.

Actually, After the fight, the big summon get's pulled to him. We kill off the others, surrender to it, and ask it to take us to it's master to meet our fate. At which point, Stone AMF's before it goes home, And we offer to let it get revenge on it's controller with us. And then we kill him.

Frankly based on our encounters, I don't think they are going to allow themselves to be killed. Just like with the drow, taking 3 turns in one round and getting away with it. If you want to continue this exercise, we need some better mediation.
Use gun. And if that don't work, Use more gun.

It occurs to me jojo, what class are you anyway?
Artificer. Pure Artificer. With the Magitech feats and almost all my gear spent on a super magitech gun. Also, my gun contains multiple copies of my own mind, and lot's of mechanics, so in theory it can preform far more than it is. The gate thing just escalated to the point where I only hold back the truly unfair tricks.

[Hazzardevil]

I think starting a new OOC makes sense, we'll discuss tactics here, but just discuss irrelevant things in the other thread to keep the DM thinking we haven't changed DM yet.

First of all, I think we need to set up a standard plan or formation for combat at the start, because right now, none of us work together.

We should address the issue of Team Evil Loose collection of Hobo's that run back and forth fighting us together.

[CowMasterTrojan]

Alright, well if we continue with the current situation the stone needs to find the little bastard in the ground.


Jack casts Shapechange and changes into an Asherati from Sandstorms than burrows into the ground. (true see through that sucker)


"The stone believes this changes nothing. The stone suggests you do as you're told, but you have not made the stone leader. Yet! "

::the stone stretches his muscles and cracks his knuckles::

"Now to find out what this underground Gebroni really is"
First the stone turns invisible. Then The stone exams the ground to check its lucidity. If the soil is considered loose soil, he changes shape into a asherati (from sandstorm, a medium humanoid).

If the ground is more firm, he instead turns into a Armand (MM3, a small creature. He then burrows into the ground looking for this 'creature' beneath their feet. As a asherati, he would have a burrow speed of 40, as a Armand a burrow speed of 10. He heads towards the source of the voice.
I tried to point out he was using a form that didn't let him burrow, he didn't get it. Should I just call him on it? Or not make it known we know about their IC thread?

Either way I need to just find the little bastard and beat the snot out of him.


Oh, the roc and the tarrasque are real btw. They are polymorphed dominated mice. Apparently with a spot check of 49 I was still too tall to notice mice....

Just two examples of them going unchallenged about breaking the rules....


But if we continue this, we need to focus. Does anyone have any abilities that work like disintegrate? Because when we down the warforged we need to us it on all his stuff.

As for the bastard on the roof, should I have my gold dragon cohort pin him? or should it take care of the polymorphed mice.

As for the drow, as of this minute we have 10 minutes before the bastard has 20 rakshasha minions. 10 minutes after that he has a super buff spell. Maybe it will prevent him from doing that DC 65 F.U. spell though....

[jojolagger]

Alright, well if we continue with the current situation the stone needs to find the little bastard in the ground.




I tried to point out he was using a form that didn't let him burrow, he didn't get it. Should I just call him on it? Or not make it known we know about their IC thread?

Either way I need to just find the little bastard and beat the snot out of him.


Oh, the roc and the tarrasque are real btw. They are polymorphed dominated mice. Apparently with a spot check of 49 I was still too tall to notice mice....

Just two examples of them going unchallenged about breaking the rules....


But if we continue this, we need to focus. Does anyone have any abilities that work like disintegrate? Because when we down the warforged we need to us it on all his stuff.

As for the bastard on the roof, should I have my gold dragon cohort pin him? or should it take care of the polymorphed mice.

As for the drow, as of this minute we have 10 minutes before the bastard has 20 rakshasha minions. 10 minutes after that he has a super buff spell. Maybe it will prevent him from doing that DC 65 F.U. spell though....
I have better than disintegrate. I have Enhanced Maximized Quickened Disintegrate. Up to 600 damage a round.
Also, Polymorph is limited by HD, So the mice should be invalid.
For the drow, I'm hoping to dispel his useless buff the moment he returns, because it should be dead easy.
I'd suggest we beat them normally, bringing up their invalid moves each time we "find" them. Once I dispel the poly and we see the mice, then point out the mice couldn't even be made kobolds. Ect.

P.S. Also, I can't Wait for my next turn. I know exactly what to say before tearing their plans apart.

[CowMasterTrojan]

What about the pink elephant in the room? IE the CR 57 creature with 100 attacks.

Anyone huge or larger can be hit we unlimited amounts of attacks. Anyone large can be hit with 20 attacks. (which is still 40d6+400 damage, minus DR times 20) Per round.

the kobold can only be hit 10 times. Either way it's a problem...

[CowMasterTrojan]

Also, here are the epic spells I created. They're pretty powerful, but keep in mind that I can only cast two any given day, and that I made the toll for them pretty severe.


Mantle of Ultima (ritual)
School: Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 16
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 10 Minutes
Range: Personal
Target: Caster
Duration: 24 Hours
Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (Harmless)
To Develop: 144,000gp, 4660XP, Seeds: Fortify (DC 17) Armor (DC 14) Factors: +30
+30 Enhancement Bonus to CHA, +16 SR, +30 Natural Armor, DR 30/Epic (+135)
+10 Armor Bonus (+12) Mitigators: 10 Minute Casting Time (-18) Change
from touch to personal (-3) Ritual Spell (Ten extra participants
contributing 1 seventh-level spell each) (-130) Each participant and
the caster take 2d6 backlash damage (-22)

Ten tiger-headed magi stand in a circle around the drow, all of which
chanting constantly. A crackling red glow appears around the beasts'
inverted hands, and beams of light strike out towards the drow in the
center. Placing his arms behind his back and lifting his head, the
drow utters the final incantation required, and his beings is wrapped
in a mists of red and grey. His eyes begin to burn brigher, and his
very being suddenly seems suddenly greater and more menacing.

A mighty protective spell, Mantle of Ultima is a spell that Hallok uses
any day in which he is preparing to face particularly great enemies.
His spell Grim Assembly is used almost exclusively for the ritual
required for this spell. Hallok personally made the spell only able to
effect himself, so that, if an enemy managed to dominate him, he would
be unable to cast the spell on them.

The spell grants Hallok a +30 Enhancement bonus to charisma and
natural armor, as well as a +20 armor bonus to AC, DR 30/epic, and
a +16 bonus to spell resistance.

Backlash: Each caster takes 2d6 damage

Grim Assembly
School: Conjuration (Calling, Evil)
Spellcraft DC: 10
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 75 ft
Effect: Summon 10 Rakshasa 7th-level sorcerers
Duration: 20 minutes
Saving Throw: Will Negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 90,000gp, 3600XP, Seeds: Summon (DC 14) Factors: CR 17 creature
(+30) Summon ten creatures (x10) Mitigators: 30d6 backlash damage
(-30) Burn 1000 XP (-10) Expensive Material Component (-10)

As the drow finishes his spell, he cluches a large red gem to his heart.
Blood begins pouring from his chest, and swirls around the ruby, which
then shatters into ten large shards. In a matter of moments, the
shards begin to warp and skew, eventually taking the form of ten
robed, tiger-headed figures; one of them speaks, "We await your commands...master."
The drow falls to his knees, and mutters "Good evening, gentlemen."

When preparing to face especially powerful enemies, Hallok uses this
spell in order to summon ten 7th-level sorcerer Rakshasa. The Rakshasa
are each entitled a DC 35 Will save, or they fall under Hallok's control.
Hallok usually uses this spell so that he may use the creatures as extra
participants for Mantle of Ultima.

The reason that Hallok only occasionally does this is due to the heavy
physical toll of the spell- he purposely added this in order to
ensure that he does not overuse it.

XP cost: 1000
30d6 Backlash Damage
Material Component: A ruby worth at least 50,000 GP



Hallok's Dread Touch
School: Necromancy (Death, Evil)
Spellcraft DC: 47
Components: V,S
Casting Time: Standard Action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature of 80HD or less
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 423000gp, 16020XP, Seeds: Slay (25), Animate Dead (23) Factors: Increase
Save DC by 30 (+30) Maximum HD of creature Animated/Controlled
changed to 30 (+15) DC of dispelling via counterspell increased by 20 (+20) Mitigators: Decrease Damage diceif creatures
succeeds save to d4s (-5) Backlash 30d6 damage (-30) Burn 2000 XP
from casting (-20) Animate creature as Bone Creature (BoVD) (-8)

Perhaps Hallok's most feared spell, Dread Touch not only kills its subject,
it also turns it into a bone creature under his control. The spell effects any
creature of up to 80HD, who must make a fortitude save (DC 50+cha mod)
or die instantly. If the creature succeeds, it only takes 3d4+20 damage.
If a creature of 30HD or less is killed with this spell, it is instantly
reanimated as a bone creature under Hallok's control.

XP Cost: 300
30d6 Backlash damage


The exp costs that were required to make these spell have brought Hallok down to 23rd-level + 640 exp (Now ECL 24)
Assuming, that is, that drow have +1 ECL; if they don't, that would be very beneficial to know.

the bastard drow's epic spells

[CowMasterTrojan]

Hallock (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=379449)(the drow)

Hallock's 'succubus' (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=379798)- Interesting note, if we could find a reason to justify breaking the true domination, we could turn her to our side because she's LG and not a succubus.

Jace (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=378991)(mr draconic, dies by a AMF)

[Chained Birds]

Why am I not listed? Anyway, I'm immune to damage, so the 100 headed creature is pretty easy for me to take out. I just need someone to make my weapon Good-aligned somehow to get rid of that pesky regeneration.

Anyone have any spell or power that can do this?

[MikelaC1]

I was one of the people who objected to this out of order posting and DM power being given to outsiders...the DM seemed to agree with me and said he would consider whitewashing the whole situation, but he has not done so. Meanwhile we have this crazy summoning going on, and all the other rule violations as noted. Putting it simply, myself and Debbie are done with this game, in its current form. We wont be supporting option #1, rule breakers will continue to be rule breakers and without a strong DM to keep them in line, it will only continue. Eric is not a strong DM, by his own admission he says he's lazy, even in the recruitment thread he just said "yes" to anything requested.
Our vote goes first of all for option #2.

[stanleyindraven]

Unfortunately I must agree with Shiver/Shake. Option 2 seems most resonable at this time. The other players are optimized against us, specifically designed to take us down. I do lament that the game must take this turn, but right now I don't see a whole lot of options.

[Debbie_D]

Tall people who dont play basketball....:smalltongue:

[MikelaC1]

On the surface of it, one might think that the DM re-setting the whole deal is a good idea...the problem here as I see it now is just another example of the DM being pushed around by the other mini-DMs. As well, when I suggested it, it was not taken up, but one of them suggested it, he accepted it. Im also wondering if he has somehow figured out that this thread exists, there was a thinly veiled reference to it in his post.

[CowMasterTrojan]

Tall people who dont play basketball....:smalltongue:
I thought it was a nicely made reference to giants:smallwink:


On the surface of it, one might think that the DM re-setting the whole deal is a good idea...the problem here as I see it now is just another example of the DM being pushed around by the other mini-DMs. As well, when I suggested it, it was not taken up, but one of them suggested it, he accepted it. Im also wondering if he has somehow figured out that this thread exists, there was a thinly veiled reference to it in his post.
I think the declaration that you and debbie were quitting may have made an impact on him more than Doomboy saying we should reset. To be fair.


Why am I not listed? Anyway, I'm immune to damage, so the 100 headed creature is pretty easy for me to take out. I just need someone to make my weapon Good-aligned somehow to get rid of that pesky regeneration.

Anyone have any spell or power that can do this?
Could have sworn I had you listed. How dare you read this thread when your name wasn't there!!!! :smallbiggrin:


So as it stands, this is how it stands opinion-wise, correct?
Debbie-Option 2
MikelaC1-Option 2
Stanleyindraven- Option 2
Jojolagger- Continue game
Hazzardevil- Continue game, coordinate better
Chained Birds- Continue Game, I think

[The_Unknown]

Unfortunately I think I'm a fan of option 2 as well. I suppose what I took for open mindedness in the recruitment thread turned out to be either weakness or laziness. Besides being unwilling or unable to reign in his "guests" there are a few other minor annoyances that, when taken as a whole, make it worth the possibility of being cut from the team. (The lack of maps or at least very well described areas for one...)

[Debbie_D]

I thought it was a nicely made reference to giants:smallwink:

Doh. I completely did not get that. Neither did Mikela. We both feel a bit foolish.
It seems to be a very close vote between #1 and #2. We will support #1 (still think #2 is better) but only if we get concrete assurances from the DM that this sort of insanity is going to be brought to a halt.

[jojolagger]

My thoughts, in order of preference
Continue this, With me constantly dispelling and countering their shenanigans, and explain why the fight was unfair afterward. (Win, then option 1)
Option 1
Option 2
Option 3


Hallock's 'succubus' (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=379798)- Interesting note, if we could find a reason to justify breaking the true domination, we could turn her to our side because she's LG and not a succubus.
Each of Hallok and his minion would likely get a targeted dispel each next turn, on principle of No magic for you.


What about the pink elephant in the room? IE the CR 57 creature with 100 attacks.
It has already been suggested that minions act on the masters init. His turn is over, it can't do anything until next turn. Then solid fog should keep it locked down. Also, because it's calling an not summoning, we might xp for it. :smallamused:

[Hazzardevil]

With the big thing, I am Gargantuam, so I don't think me engaging it in combat is a good idea. I'll try and deal with it from a distance. Throwing rocks works wonders when your a giant.

[CowMasterTrojan]

it throws rocks too...

[jojolagger]

it throws rocks too...

Not when caught in solid fog.
Also, I have to look at some stuff, but I'm 99% sure I am capable of giving everyone regeneration. Three cheers for Chain and persist spell.
Also mind blank so we get to laugh at the mage.

[CowMasterTrojan]

The stone already has these things, but all of us having them would be good.

Also, Eric may have actually seen the error in his ways to some degree, and say something to the player with the drow about summoning CR 57 monsters.

[MikelaC1]

So I guess we are continuing and the battles are a thing of dreams? I dont like making threats, but I dont mind telling you people that I consider this DM to be on a short leash.

[CowMasterTrojan]

I think most of us view option 2 as realistic, but are hoping he can get his stuff together. Does anyone want to not continue if he runs it? because I don't want to have somebody quit and then we end up bailing anyway.

[stanleyindraven]

Ok, I say we go forward tentatively and on the next major problem like the one we experienced, we reboot the game.

[The_Unknown]

Ok, I say we go forward tentatively and on the next major problem like the one we experienced, we reboot the game.

Agreed. I'm all for giving someone a second chance, but only the one.

[MikelaC1]

We are for keeping going as well, with the proviso of reboot if something insane happens.

[CowMasterTrojan]

Alright, then it's official.

[CowMasterTrojan]

HA, I bet they're talking entirely by PM now. I knew my words would set them off.

[jojolagger]

I claimed to PM these out due to meta-game worry. Saves me filling out the huge list of team names over 2 PM's.

Buffs Friends have
+Animals X buffs = +4 to all stats,
+Superior Magic Weapon = +6 to attack/Damage
+Magic Vestment = +6 armour
+Resistance item = +7 Saves
+Celestial Aspect = 100 ft (good fly speed), +1 holy or Flaming Longsword, +1 holy or Flaming shortsword, Basic Laser Eyes, or Horns that dismiss summoned/called creature on hit. Pick one, change between them as a free action, but only once per round
+Cloak of Shade = Protects from sun, but not against damage from sunlight
+BloodWind= Natural weapons can be used as throw up to 20 ft. increment
+Displacement= 50% miss chance
+Accuracy= Double range increment
+Girallion’s Blessing= gain extra pair of arms, Claw attacks, rend if 2 claws hit.
+Mind Blank=immunity to mind affecting effect and most divination
+Nondetection=resistance to scrying
+Spell Immunity=pick 6 spells under level 4. Ignore them. (Magic Missile, Enervation, Charm Monster, Suggestion, Slow, Shivering touch.)
+True Seeing=range 240 ft, what it says on the tin
+Lesser Vigor=Fast healing 1
+Monstrous Regeneration= Regeneration 4 w/ Limb re-attachment (note that acid and fire overcomes the regeneration. You can be killed via coup de grace, but only with attacks that inflict fire or acid damage.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
+Rary's Interplanar Bond= Everyone is mindlinked
+Life's Grace=Immunity to Death effects, energy drain, negative energy, ability damage/drain (from undead), and disease (from undead), also, armour is auto-ghost touch
+Energy Immunity= All of them
+Antifire Sphere, +Anticold Sphere = fire and cold subtype creatures may not enter within 20 ft.
+Avoid Planar Effects= Do I have to explain?
+Sheltered Vitality=immunity to fatiuge, exastion, Ability damage/drain
+Starmantle=Immune to non-magic weapons, DC 15 ref save for half damage vs. magic weapons
+Nezram's Amethyst Aura=Immunity to poison and disease
+Sakkratar's Triple Strike=+2 attacks on full attack (at highest BAB) (doesn't stack with haste or speed property, ect.), Weapon becomes flaming burst and keen
+Sacred Haven= +2 sacred bonus to Ac, keep Dex to Ac when flat-footed, Status
+Haste=+1 att/dodge/Ref, +30 ft. to speed
+Greater Blindsight=Blindsight out to 120 ft. Blindsight is the one that negates concealment
+Body Ward= Ignores first 10 points of ability Damage/drain to each Physical score (each tracked seperately)
+Cloud Wings= +30 ft. to fly speed
+Greater Anticipate Teleportation= Radius 240 ft., can delay inbound teleports by 3 rounds

The Line separates old|new effects. Starmantle and Triple strike are most noteworthy. Starmantle gives a DC 15 save to take 1/2 damage from a magic weapon. Triple strike Gives 2 extra attacks in a full attack, but doesn't stack with other magically added attacks. Also, note you are immune to just about everything, and now automatically have ghost touch on your Armour, and keen and flaming burst on your weapons.


P.S. My magi-cannon now has a "deathnote" Function. Because 360 no save no SR unresistable damage should kill anyone over a few turns.

[CowMasterTrojan]

All hail the deathificer of doom. :smallbiggrin: