[3.P] Dragon Age Campaign Help

[Tokuhara]

Working on a campaign for my Step-Brother and his friends set in Thedas (Dragon Age's setting)

The game's story will take place 3 years after the events of Witch Hunt using my personal Warden Commander (Lucian Cousland), who was generally a good guy (had a mean streak during Origins, but overcame it). The game will involve the PCs in a game of intrigue, trying to stop an uprising of Blood Mages (or so they think!).

I'm planning on using:

"Generic" Classes from Unearthed Arcana
A custom "Mana" System
Pathfinder's General Rules
Archetypes instead of Prestige Classes (so a Warrior could take Berserker and Champion Archetypes instead of taking a homebrew PrC to emulate the Specialization)
Homebrew Races that emulate the "Big 5" of the setting (Dwarf, Human, Elf, Qunari, Architect's Darkspawn). I know, "ZOMG! Darkspawn as a playable race???!!1 MaDnEsS!!!" In my DA:O:A, I allowed the Architect to go about his personal business and try and cure the Darkspawn.
Max HP/Lv.
Homebrew "Themes" to match each player's individual Origin Story

Here's my ideas thus far:

I'll preset the "Generic" Classes so they have appropriate skills and give each a set of optional "Class Feature Feats" that allow my players to still feel "in control" and allow for some customizing options. For instance:

Joe is playing Garen Orta, Dwarf Warrior with the Noble Theme. He chooses to take the Shield Specialization Class Feature to be a more sword and board warrior. Later on, he takes the Champion Archetype and gains the Rally aura, which gives his allies +1 AC/lv and +1 to attack rolls/lv as long as they stand within 20' of him. 2 Levels later, he gets the War Cry class feature from his Archetype and a bonus feat from his class. He could take the feat Improved Shield Bash, or he could grab a Fighter Talent of appropriate level.

The idea is to allow a more Dragon Age-y feel than Class/PrC/PrC. I'm setting archetypes as available at 7th level and at 14th level, so they can have a maximum of 2. I plan on reskinning the Specializations from Both DA:O and DA2 into Archetypes that the players can choose from (so a Mage could be an Arcane Warrior/Force Mage or a Warrior could be a Templar/Reaver if they so choose).

Themes are different however. Themes are kind of like the Origin Story options from DA:O, so a Human Rogue (Expert) could take the Noble, Ostigar Survivor, or the Highwayman theme and get 3 radically different characters. The Noble could be more of a man who's good at politics whereas an Ostigar Survivor is better in a fight, whilst a Highwayman is a better thief. Each allows for a subtle difference in the character without just haphazardly slapping bonus feats. Perhaps while the Noble gets a +2 Persuasion bonus, the Highwayman gets +2 Stealth. These are small static bonuses that allow for greater feel for the players.

And befoe anyone asks, No. There Will Not Be ANY (or very few at the most) references to the events of DA2. The story is in Ferelden, not Highever (Bad Move, Bioware... I liked Ferelden). There will however be cameos of well-liked characters, such as Zevran, Oghren, Sten, and Shale, along with possible cameos of Anders and Fenris (the ONLY DA2 character I cared about).

My idea for the Mana system is VERY similar to Psionic's Power Points system (FAR simpler than the spells known/day system, which is kind of clunky if you ask me.) Mage itself will use any of the three mental scores to determine Mana as a psion. Spells use mana equal to their spell level times x (haven't figured out a reliable number to balance most of the spells off of). This is because my step-brother is new to D&D, so I thought I'd streamline it as much as I could. Plus, it lets a Blood Mage spend HP=Mana Cost instead of having to jump through hoops to make it work.

Races-Wise, I'm keeping the "Common 3" the same as the PF versions (maybe with a tweak or two), and probably using Half-Orc as a Balance point for Darkspawn and Half-Giant for Qunari. Dwarves cannot take Mage (Disconnected from the Fade), Qunari (Honor-Bound) cannot take Rogue, and the rest can take any of the 3 (Examples of each class in race). Qunari will probably get a charisma penalty and a Strength/Wisdom bonus while Darkspawn get an Intelligence Penalty with a Strength/Constitution bonus. Plus, each race will have exclusive abilities to match their DA-ness (Dwarves get a 10% chance of a spell flat failing on them, Humans get a bonus weapon proficiency, Elves get a flat +1 to effective caster level on spells, Darkspawn get poisonous blood, and Qunari get Powerful Build). Again, this is a High-Risk High-Reward game, where while the PCs may be stronger, the monsters will be as well.

My questions:

1. Themes seem to be the "Elephant in the Room." How could I do this simply so that it doesn't confuse my players? And I could always use suggestions for Themes, because writer's block SUCKS!!!

2. Archetypes. I have around 10 or so to make, and Maker does my head hurt thinking about it. Any ideas on how to make these both "canon" and simple?

3. Races. Now, I don't want hate on the races, but instead, I want a good way to Dragon Age the races so that they make sense in the world.

4. PF-izing the "Generic Classes." How is the best way to accomplish this with the least amount of headache?

5. Cameos. If anyone has ideas on how to "incorporate" canon characters like Sten (Warrior/Reaver), Lucian (Warrior/Berserker/Reaver/Spirit Warrior), and Zevran (Rogue/Assassin/Duelist) without them becoming DMPCs, I would be grateful.

6. Any other suggestions from people smarter and wiser than I. If you have suggestions that would make my life easier, Please don't hesitate to tell me. I won't (or will try to not) fly off the proverbial handle and tell you that you are idiotic for your suggestion.

Thanks in advance, and may the Maker watch over you.

[Hylas]

Well if people are going to be playing basic classes and you want them to be customizable, then what about giving away extra feats every other level? You may or may not wish to extend this bonus to the casters (they were way awesome in DA:O though, so maybe you'll want to copy that). It's a little late for me to be breaking out Unearthed Arcana though, so I can't help with converting them, but from memory they just had modular traits you could pick from a list, right? That should work in PF.

For the races, check out the alternative racial traits on the SRD. Maybe for a dwarf you could replace one of their racial features with +attack/damage on darkspawn or +2 on all saves VS spells to represent their disconnection from the fade. Elves could get a -2 on social interactions with humans but +1 to the DC of their spells. Check them out, you might find something you like.

For a theme, how epic do you want this to be? You could do something simple like track down blood mage. Who are then connected to some spies from Orlais, which leads to a secret darkspawn worshiping cult. Or you could do a pilgrimage to find the Holy Grail Urn of Sacred Ashes and kill a few dragons who were turned into abominations. But not everything has to involve saving the world.

[Darth_Versity]

Just wondering, but are you aware that there is actually a tabletop RPG system designed for Dragon Age by Green Ronin (http://greenronin.com/dragon_age/)? It is actually a really easy fun system and is extremely quick to learn.

I'd really recommend it over DnD for getting the Dragon Age feel. The only problem at the moment is that the system is split into different books that cover different levels (set 1 covers lvls 1-5, set 2 covers 6-10 and set 3 covers 10-20).

[gkathellar]

While I can't speak to the merits of Green Ronin's Dragon Age system, I'll second Darth_Versity in saying that you can do a lot better than D&D for running Dragon Age. If you have access to Burning Wheel and a hankering to modify it, or to nWoD's supplement "Mirrors," I recommend both of those strongly for this type of game.

If you're really committed to 3.P, more power to you, and here:

1. Why not look into different combinations of PF's traits? That honestly seems like what you're looking for.

2. Scan the existing sourcebooks, mix and match. If you're requesting homebrew or want specific ideas for such, you might want to post on that board.

3. I'm not sure what your problem is here. Dragon Age races already makes sense in its world. Are you talking Darkspawn? Because yeah, those living alongside other races is inconceivable if they're still actually Darkspawn.

4. I'm not sure you can avoid headache. Compare the PF classes with the 3.5 classes and then compare with the Generics, obviously.

5. I'd avoid this as much as possible. Have the famous ones get mentioned. Otherwise, dodge this bullet - this is your players' story.

6. A lot of your questions here seem like they amount to "how can I make homebrew less work?" This is futile. Homebrew is hard work. The Homebrew board, however, is generally happy to critique, and if you're looking to do a larger system mod, I point you fervently in their direction.

And again, I think you can do better the 3.P if you look around, though obviously the feasibility of that depends on a lot of other factors.

[Yora]

The Dragon Age RPG is quite rules-light and does not have much stuff you would have to look up during a game. Which I think makes getting the Set 1 pdf for $17.50 quite a good idea.
Though it is a system that probably works best for story heavy games, as there are not many options for character customization or combat. Your stats mostly affect how good you are at things, but except for spells don't really enable you do to things that are not available to everyone.

[Tokuhara]

Well if people are going to be playing basic classes and you want them to be customizable, then what about giving away extra feats every other level? You may or may not wish to extend this bonus to the casters (they were way awesome in DA:O though, so maybe you'll want to copy that). It's a little late for me to be breaking out Unearthed Arcana though, so I can't help with converting them, but from memory they just had modular traits you could pick from a list, right? That should work in PF.

For the races, check out the alternative racial traits on the SRD. Maybe for a dwarf you could replace one of their racial features with +attack/damage on darkspawn or +2 on all saves VS spells to represent their disconnection from the fade. Elves could get a -2 on social interactions with humans but +1 to the DC of their spells. Check them out, you might find something you like.

For a theme, how epic do you want this to be? You could do something simple like track down blood mage. Who are then connected to some spies from Orlais, which leads to a secret darkspawn worshiping cult. Or you could do a pilgrimage to find the Holy Grail Urn of Sacred Ashes and kill a few dragons who were turned into abominations. But not everything has to involve saving the world.

Yes. Generic classes are modular. Pick your skills, your saves, and your class features/feats.

I was actually looking to just flat add them to the racial traits, since DA is slightly epic in scale.

I want the story to enthrall my players, who have all spent a portion of their lives involved in Thedas (aka: Invested in its well-being). Not saying I DON'T want the scale possibly toned down, but I want them to think, "Wow. This feels like this is the game. This feels right."

To Darth_Varsity: My players (Minus my step-brother) are familiar with d&d/PF, so sorry. I am more intending to make d&d bend to the world, not the other way around.

To gkathellar: I'm talking the intelligent creations of the Architect for one. Yes, they are "darkspawn," but are content with going about their business, and maybe carve a small niche in the world for themselves. In my world, the wounds are still healing from the Chaos of the Blight, but the Wardens have explained that these darkspawn (represented by a glyps branded on the right cheek) are the "good ones."

Also, I'm simply asking for ideas on how to simplify, not take the easy route. I can see that Themes are gonna look like Traits, but will probably have some class features tagged onto the player's existing class, similar to 4e.

And by Cameos, I was going to say have Zevran ask the party to help him get the Crows off his back, or maybe the party bumps into Shale, who gives them a fetch quest for a ring it made. Not as DMPCs, but as quest givers.

As I said, I've done homebrew before (see the Melee book for the One-Inch Punch and Rising Dragon Fist) and understand it is a pain. I'm just asking for ideas on how I can simplify it so as I don't suddenly have an aneurism and collapse. I have a lot of stress in my life without needing overcomplicated mechanics that simply won't work.

[Yora]

I would use the generic Warrior and Expert and use a Sorcerer as Mage and add cure light wounds to the spell list.

If you want it a bit more complicated, don't take sorcerer but psion. Psion is the perfect fit for DA mages, you only need a cure power and add visual effects to the powers. Complete Psionic has a few useful things, but the basic psion class and powers are in the SRD, so there's no additional costs.

[Tokuhara]

I would use the generic Warrior and Expert and use a Sorcerer as Mage and add cure light wounds to the spell list.

If you want it a bit more complicated, don't take sorcerer but psion. Psion is the perfect fit for DA mages, you only need a cure power and add visual effects to the powers. Complete Psionic has a few useful things, but the basic psion class and powers are in the SRD, so there's no additional costs.

I like the idea of using Psion to match mage, but plan on adding the whole cure line to psion's list. Though the disciplines are pointless for Mage, I may give the Psion Spellcaster's class features.

[Yora]

A cure power line is unneccessary. Psionic powers scale through augmentation. If you want to heal more hp, you use more power points when casting it.

[Essence_of_War]

You could also use the spell-point system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) rather than a psion, but I think that's basically 6 of one, half-dozen of the other...

One of the things that always sticks in my mind about dragon age is how gritty and vicious the combat is. People get knocked out and carry persistent injuries. There's blood everywhere, and a few seconds against a foe that over matches you could mean death. Spells hurt, but melee wielding templars are terrifying in their own way.

To capture some of the gritty feel of dragon age, have you considered implementing some other variant rules.

Dragon Age feels like it really wants the:
1) Armor as DR variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm)
2) Class defense bonuses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm)
3) E6 - to put magic and melee on somewhat closer footing.

[CreganTur]

I ran a Green Ronin Dragon Age game for a year and it was a lot of fun. You really need to get both sets (1 & 2) to be able to start getting the depth you need, but the basic system is great for players and it's easy for the GM to change monsters as needed to continually challenge players.

Biggest things missing from the rule books- any sort of rules explination for possession.

[Darth_Versity]

In the fluff for the Dragon Age RPG, it mentions that circle mages are ALL trained for war with a large selection of powerful direct attack spells. Only a few circle mages have anything other than direct damage or disabling spells. Likewise most apostates learn attack spells to defend themselves from templars. Nearly all spells are related to combat in some way, with only a few non combat abilities.

It also covers the fact that there are no Invisibility, Flight or Teleportation spells. They just dont exist within the magic system Dragon Age setting.

[Tokuhara]

You could also use the spell-point system (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) rather than a psion, but I think that's basically 6 of one, half-dozen of the other...

One of the things that always sticks in my mind about dragon age is how gritty and vicious the combat is. People get knocked out and carry persistent injuries. There's blood everywhere, and a few seconds against a foe that over matches you could mean death. Spells hurt, but melee wielding templars are terrifying in their own way.

To capture some of the gritty feel of dragon age, have you considered implementing some other variant rules.

Dragon Age feels like it really wants the:
1) Armor as DR variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/armorAsDamageReduction.htm)
2) Class defense bonuses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm)
3) E6 - to put magic and melee on somewhat closer footing.

I plan on giving Templars specifically SR and a 1/encounter AMF burst and possibly an anti-spellcaster smite that steals mana (spell/power points) to give them an edge against their chosen prey.

I love Armor as DR and Class Defense bonuses, but E6 is not my cup of mead.

[Yora]

At some point you change so many things, that it requires players to learn so much that they could also just learn another system. Keep that in mind.
If you want to play 3P in Thedas, then keep changes to a minimum and use as much existing resources as you can.

[Darth_Versity]

At some point you change so many things, that it requires players to learn so much that they could also just learn another system. Keep that in mind.
If you want to play 3P in Thedas, then keep changes to a minimum and use as much existing resources as you can.

This is so true. There is that point where there are so many new rules and bits to learn, that you may as well just learn a whole new game rather than confuse the one you already know.

[Tokuhara]

That's why I plan on refluffing races, adjusting classes to fit the system, and adapting 2 4e rules (Minions and Themes) to achieve my intent versus making a whole new system.

[Tokuhara]

Anyone else want to give me a hand?

[klemdakherzbag]

What creatures are you using in place of the darkspawn, regular MM or homebrew?

[Tokuhara]

What creatures are you using in place of the darkspawn, regular MM or homebrew?

Goblin (Genlock), Orc (Hurlock), Ogre (Ogre), and don't know (shriek)

[CreganTur]

DA Ogre != PF Ogre

The ogre in DA, esp. based on the green ronin game is a much tougher, much scarier boss than a PF ogre. To get the same feel you would have to add a few templates.